Legume wins the unofficial poll. R'osity management has decided to give him a prize, after all--a Bible and a one-way ticket to Yemen!

BWAAAHAHAHAHAAAA LOL! Congrats Legume!

Since the unoffical poll was only posted in the Poser Forum, I can't agree that The People have spoken...The Poser People may have spoken, but how about the Bryce People, the Lightwave People, the 2D People, The Vue People, and all the rest of the people that are members. In Fairness the unoffical poll should have been posted in every artist forum!

You're right, illusions. That was a small sampling and it does seems as if it was unfairly slanted to favor the Poser artists. Legume has vigorous advocates who were sure to vote for him, while some people may have missed the fact that an unofficial vote existed simply because of the way it was posted. They may or may not have voted for Legume had they known. And some people were so discouraged that they abstained altogether. I personally think they should have declared the artist of the year null and void for 2002. No one won in this sad affair.

yep, I gotta agree with you on that one dailyn! It is a sad affair...with no winners no matter what. I understand the error that was made by Tammymc and appreciate her comming forward to admit to it and apologize...hey sh_t happens, unfortunately when it happens here too many people like to add to the pile.

Considering all types of artists were in the running and the "poll" was only posted in one forum, I have to agree. But what's done is done. Nothing will appease everyone so call it done and I'm sure everything will be better this year.

And congrats Legume. :)

...... Kendra

I hope you are right, Kendra. But I can't congratulate anyone on a win like this. I think something was, in fact, lost. But I will join you in hoping things are better this year.

You are right Kendra, nothing will appease everyone, but if conern was really Fairness of the poll in the first place, in the interests of Fairness it can't be called done without giving all the members a chance to have a say. There are a lot of members that don't go to the Poser Forum, that didn't get a chance to unofficially vote. If the controversy is truly about fairness, let's be truly fair...even unoffically.

illusions, dialyn--why not post your own unofficial polls in all the forums? We'll all go around voting in each of them, and then you can add up all the numbers and throw out the duplicate votes, and... No, wait--here's an idea--maybe R'osity could save you the trouble and post it on the FRONT PAGE where everyone can see it! Doh! My point was that yeah, the "unofficial" poll (posted by one of the Poser forum mods--go figure) is a pretty hollow victory at best, for whoever. It was a joke. You know--irony. Yeesh.

Wait--here's another idea: maybe we should just keep having polls until Legume DOESN'T win. Now THAT would be fair!

Be as sarcastic as you like...but are you under the impression that you are the only one allowed to have legitimate concerns? You made your views known in five or six different threads, at length, over several days...there's no doubt in my mind about where you stand or what agenda you are promoting. I don't think we have less right to speak on the subject. I know all too well what the issues are. If I am a little sad as to what the result is (and I don't mean about who theoretically "won"), I have that right. And I sincerely am hoping for less grandstanding and a better system in 2003. I can hope. but I don't expect it to happen.

Mosca, on the one hand you keep saying the issue is the poll being pulled removing the vote from the members...yet...at the same time you say it was pulled to keep Legume from winning! If you think the PTB's are expected to be consistent shouldn't you be too? There isn't a single bit of irony in the unofficial poll declaring Legume the winner, unless the irony is that it wasn't posted anywhere except the Poser Forum...making it as unfair as the official poll that was pulled.

Mosca said "Wait--here's another idea: maybe we should just keep having polls until Legume DOESN'T win. Now THAT would be fair!"

So...it's all about Legume after all!

"There isn't a single bit of irony in the unofficial poll declaring Legume the winner, unless the irony is that it wasn't posted anywhere except the Poser Forum...making it as unfair as the official poll that was pulled." Cripes. It was unofficial. That means "not official." That means, the outcome means squat. ("Squat"=nothing.) It can't be considered fair or unfair, really, because it's meaningless. You could just as easily conduct your own official poll, as I mentioned before--maybe the outcome would be more to your liking. But that would mean squat, too. "Mosca, on the one hand you keep saying the issue is the poll being pulled removing the vote from the members...yet...at the same time you say it was pulled to keep Legume from winning!" Right. Where's the inconsistency? It would've been just as unfair if they'd pulled it to keep ANY of the contestants from winning. You haven't really been paying attention here, apparently.

"Be as sarcastic as you like." Really? Woo-hoo! "but are you under the impression that you are the only one allowed to have legitimate concerns?" Nope. And in a sense we agree--this whole fiasco is a small disaster for R'osity and a slap in the face for the finalists and the membership at large. It is sad, you're right.

Me: "You could just as easily conduct your own official poll" Translation: "UNofficial." Sorry.

Since there are Polls on R'osity, they could just set up an "unofficial" poll there and cross-post links to all fora or maybe within the page header/footer. But, I think the "unofficial" poll was more to gather reactions about the potential for a public, forum-based poll; and not so much to decide a "winner" for AOY. Just a simple experiment in an environment JeffH could maintain control over.

Just a simple experiment in an environment JeffH could maintain control over. and he picked the Poser forum??? Oh, dear. I have no doubt JeffH meant well, and of course he is the moderator of the Poser forum so that is the one he would post on, but I don't think it solved anything. It's been my experience that once the cream has turned sour, there's no way to make it sweet again. But maybe things will get better in 2003. Maybe. Losing hope but hanging on to the idea.

Thought this was meant to be an art site not a competition site.

Legume's getting a Bible? It's about time. ;)

I glanced through the thread--it actually looked pretty civilized. People could even say why they were voting the way they were. No doubt, had it been bigger, it would've gotten chaotic--things do, here.

"Legume's getting a Bible? It's about time. ;)" He ate the last one...

Mosca said: "Where's the inconsistency? It would've been just as unfair if they'd pulled it to keep ANY of the contestants from winning. You haven't really been paying attention here, apparently."

I have been paying very close attention to all the threads. You repeatedly don't seem to mention ANY contestants EXCEPT Legume, making it obvious you don't really care about the contest, all you care about is Legume winning.

I do remember the PTB posting that the AOY would be chosen by the Admins/Mods quite sometime ago...unfortunately I can't seem to find the post, it may have been in C&D which is long gone. Tammymc's "oops" doesn't really bother me because nothing was taken away since the members weren't supposed to vote for AOY anyway. I'm probably the only one that remembers that.

I will agree with this...the method for determining AOM & AOY should have been posted in the contests section so it was clear to everyone how AOY would be selected right from the start so there could be no questions.

**There is no conspiracy here...only poor judgement and lack of foresight.</>

**

"I have been paying very close attention to all the threads. You repeatedly don't seem to mention ANY contestants EXCEPT Legume, making it obvious you don't really care about the contest, all you care about is Legume winning." Well, maybe there's an issue with reading comprehension. From: "Admins Hijack AOY" Post #4, 12/21/02 "The more I think about this development the more it annoys me. I don't care who wins AOY (though I'm a big fan of Legume's work); what offends me is the notion that if the customers won't select the "right" AOY (i.e., someone who matches R'osity's heavily postworked "corporate image"), we'll have won selected for us. It's insulting, utterly unfair, and renders the AOY meaningless." Post #52, 12/21/02 "Know who I really feel bad for in all of this? ToxicAngel. I mean, he had a better than even shot at winning straight up, without this ham-handed interference by the admins. Now, whoever's declared the winner, it's meaningless, tainted not by the members who are protesting but by the admins' control-freak management style." From: "Dear Tim: an Open Letter" Post #1, 12/22/02 "It's time to offer a solution that is fair for all involved--the contestants and the voting members. And it's time to offer a sincere, prominently placed apology to Legume and ToxicAngel in particular and the customer-members in general for the ham-handed mismanagement that led to this fiasco." From: "Dear Tammymc" Post #75, 12/26/02 "I could care less who wins--what pisses me off is the utter disregard management has demonstrated again and again for the concerns of the customer-members, you and me. Those of us who buy from the MP support the site with OUR money--WE pay for the bandwidth, WE provide the "free" galleries, WE pay for the contest prizes, WE pay the salaries. Sure, I think Legume's a hoot--but I also think ToxicAngel would make a fine AOY. I just think the timing here is extremely suspect, and I think management owes us more than "oops--sorry!" by way of explanation." Post #143, 12/26/02 "If you'd actually bothered to read the rest of these threads, you'd know that I've said several times that I don't care who wins AOY, that I think ToxicAngel (or any of the rest of the finalists, for that matter) would make a fine AOY, and that I'd have the same issue with management no matter WHO they were discriminating against--it just appears to be Legume in this case. I'm starting to resent your characterization of me as a shrill, screaming, ranting, raving "sidekick" of Legume's--in fact, I've simply been direct and persistent in asking questions about R'osity's sudden decision to yank the AOY voting--the official explanation still doesn't make sense to me, and I think the customer-members deserve an honest, straightforward explanation. I also think the AOY finalists deserve an equitable solution--it's up to management to produce one, the sooner the better. And that's all I have to say to you--you've contributed nothing to this thread, as far as I can see, beyond a lot of rambling misapprehension and a few interesting adventures in grammar. If you don't think this issue is important, butt out and let the grownups sort it out." And that's just 12/21-12/26--shall I continue? Anyway, I've never claimed that Legume wasn't part of the issue here--management finds Legume abrasive and difficult, and, well, scary; therefore management doubts the wisdom of having Legume represent the site as AOY; therefore management pulls the vote after three days of encouraging customer-members to participate. That looks like discrimination to me--different rules for different people. That's unfair. Would I be equally upset if it had happened to someone else? Honestly, I think I would, yes.

"I do remember the PTB posting that the AOY would be chosen by the Admins/Mods quite sometime ago...unfortunately I can't seem to find the post," Gee. I'm shocked. "Tammymc's "oops" doesn't really bother me because nothing was taken away since the members weren't supposed to vote for AOY anyway. I'm probably the only one that remembers that." Including tammymc and the entire staff, apparently, until the vote had been in progress for three days. I've heard of mass amnesia before, but this is the first time I've ever seen it in practice.

Any poll that does not include me as a contender should be considered suspect and avoided. That's my advice, anyway.

"Any poll that does not include me as a contender should be considered suspect and avoided." BAH! i am voting for seane or figaro next time- sorry tuttle };>

hrumph!

but anyway - yay vote for ME!!! :+P It'll look good on the resume... cheers Sean

Mosca said: "Well, maybe there's an issue with reading comprehension." Nope not a bit, Legume's name came up 5 times in the "examples" you gave. My reading comprehension is just fine, my "reading between the lines" comprehension is even better.

Mosca said: "I've heard of mass amnesia before, but this is the first time I've ever seen it in practice." Nope, just selective memory at it's best! Convenient ain't it. :^P

Mosca said: "Anyway, I've never claimed that Legume wasn't part of the issue here--" 99 44/100 % it would seem...

"...management finds Legume abrasive and difficult, and, well, scary; therefore management doubts the wisdom of having Legume represent the site as AOY..." Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, although it's all based on your conjecture and your belief. .

"...therefore management pulls the vote after three days of encouraging customer-members to participate. That looks like discrimination to me--different rules for different people." Well just like you're entitled to your opinion I suppose you're entitled to interpret the facts to suit your beliefs. Tammymc admitted it was a "miscommunication", no big conspiracy...just a simple "foo-bar", you put your own spin on it.

"That's unfair. Would I be equally upset if it had happened to someone else? Honestly, I think I would, yes." It's good to know you think you would, but it would be nice to know you were 100% certain you would...it seems doubtful though.

You accused me of not mentioning other artists. I showed you a number of posts in which I did, in fact, mention other artists. Now, apparently, you want me to never, ever say the word "Legume"; apparently you think it's an indicator of some damning moral inconsistency in what I'm trying to point out in these threads. In fact (and I'll try to state this as clearly as I can), what I've said over and over is this: the way the poll was pulled, given the context of the last year or so regarding AOM/AOY, gave the appearance, to me, that management had invoked the Legume Rule once again (a la last year's AOM vote), and withdrew the voting specifically because he, whose name we shall not speak, was making a run at first place. Which, if it's true, is categorically unfair. There's also the unfairness you're talking about--which is giving members a vote and then reneging. There's also an injustice done to ToxicAngel, and the other finalists. So, to my way of thinking, there are three ways in which management's actions seem suspect: the fact that they offered a vote and then withdrew it, the fact that all of the finalists had a right to expect a fair and competently conducted vote, and the appearance that the vote was withdrawn because a specific finalist--someone with a long history of bitching and derailing--was about to win. Management says it was all a big mistake; I'm not convinced by that explanation. Management says they'll pick somebody for us; that doesn't seem like an equitable solution to me, for anybody--whoever they give it to, the result would be tainted. Honestly, if I was one of the finalists, I'd withdraw at this point rather than allow myself to be appointed--but that's just me (and if I was Tiger Woods, I'd boycott the Masters). But whatever. Once again, FOMs (friends of management) are determined to make me the issue, and divert attention away from the message--I guess the hope is that it'll eventually start a big flame war and management will have an excuse to lock and delete these threads, and toss me out on my ear. What that demonstrates to me is that they, the FOMs, essentially have no argument. You'd think they'd have figured out by now that attacking me just serves to keep these threads alive, and gives me an opportunity to ask, yet again, the questions I have regarding this year's AOY process. So, your turn. I'm happy to continue to argue this with you as long as you'd like (and I have to say, all the italics and boldface and whatnot are very persuasive).

Seems like illusions has it out for you, Mosca. ;0)

Just what we need, another conspiracy. Let's see we have the evil overlords against Legume being AOY, the evil underlords against Legume being AOM, and illusions (and probably me) against Mosca. I honestly think the whole AOY thing was messed up. And, yes, I think it should be revised (or just eliminated as an idea). And sure, the administrators should be posting responses to these endless threads...oh, yeah, one did and made the sorry mistake of apologizing. Forget that one. What I don't buy into is this whole conspiracy thing. There is no logic to that. I can't deal with X-Files explanations. Oh, well. TGIF. Dance away to the weekend. Get away from the computer. Walk the dog. Hug the cat. Maybe even do a graphic or two that no one will view and give up on my grand ambition to be AOY myself (you know, in so many ways that is a good thing). Joking, joking...I was never in that league and never will be. Blessed be. Take care all. And I like illusions putting some variety in the messages. Those long blocks of paragraphs are hard to read after awhile. So I don't. :)

Me: "...management finds Legume abrasive and difficult, and, well, scary; therefore management doubts the wisdom of having Legume represent the site as AOY..." illusions: "Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, although it's all based on your conjecture and your belief." That's a little like arguing that evolution and creationism are both just theories, and therefore of equal scientific weight. My opinion on this matter is not based on conjecture and belief--it's based on my years of experience here, practically since day one, observing management's behavior: what they've done versus what they've said. Me: "That's unfair. Would I be equally upset if it had happened to someone else? Honestly, I think I would, yes." Illusions: "It's good to know you think you would, but it would be nice to know you were 100% certain you would...it seems doubtful though." It would be a wonderful world indeed if we were all 100% morally perfect in every regard, yes. Which leads me to wonder what your motivation is here--just baiting me, I suppose, which is fine. Apparently you're happy with management's actions re AOY, but you shouldn't be--if I'm right about what happened, then they could just as easily do the same thing to you. And that would be unfair, too (but if you want me to advocate for you, you'll have to learn to give one hell of a blowjob. Legume's got it going ON). Sometimes I just crack me up, y'know?

Geez, dialyn, is everything to you a conspiracy? Obviously humor does not factor in anywhere.

Anyone wanna keep going on crying "Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!?"

"Seems like illusions has it out for you, Mosca. ;0)" Maybe he just forgot to zip up. Doh!

"low blow", Mosca. ;0)

Isn't that the best kind? What George Carlin said...

And now we have voting for AOM for January... They never learn here, do they...

Cyberstretch...I got the humor. I was being sardonic, not serious. The conspiracy theory didn't come from me originally and I have made it plain that I think it's silly. Oh well. I was never good at playing the game of word twister. Don't worry, I won't vote. I don't think my one vote will be missed somehow. And that's okay too. Take care all.

Well okay, so the unofficial poll in the poser forum shows Legume as the winner(Congrats to Legume for winning that contest;))...there's no point in trying to pretend that I don't have a point of view at this point but I do feel the need to point something out although I'm sure no one will listen due to the fact that you know I am already biased in the other direction. There was once an "Official" poll which was on the front page for everyone to vote on anonymously which was showing someone else in the lead. Now unfortunately that poll was pulled but does that not count for something? BTW, Congrats to ToxicAngel...the actual AOY winner...;) Sorcha<---voted for ToxicAngel and just voted for Roobol for AOM

"And now we have voting for AOM for January... They never learn here, do they... " Definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Guess I am just as guilty of that insanity as well because i actually keep expecting fair and equitable contests. Bleh

Has anyone noticed someone is missing and only the Pink Pony remains, or is it ill mannered of me to point that out?

Well, no surprise. I'm sure ToxicAngel will do a fine job of representing the site; his work really is technically very good, and his aesthetic is tongue-in-groove with R'osity's image of itself, I think. Not sure why Legume deleted most of his gallery. Can't say that I blame him, though.

Hmmm....I am surprised, actually. Well, I go back to what I said originally. No one really won.

It's all so Bush/Gore. But there you are.

You mean they did the deciding count in Florida? There we are.

There was no winner this year.Period. And I refuse to vote in anymore of the AOM contests either. My vote isnt wanted or considered in the AOY, why would I take the time to vote for AOM? Fuck it. Rosity got what they wanted,they chose AOY not the membership of this site so why dont they just pic an AOM? OUR OPINION isnt wanted or needed right? Fuck it. I voted for the last time on this site.

Um, excuse me, as a new member here could someone explain to me why any of this matters? It all seems to be a bit out of hand and blown up out of all proportion.

I thought artist of the month/year was just a bit of fun???

There are apparently over 100,000 members, how many people actually take the time to vote or look at the nominations?

It doesn't seem to me anything to get steamed up about. This is called a community and unfortunately seems to be suffering from the same thing all communities do; factionalism, confrontation and disagreement.

Such is life

"There are apparently over 100,000 members, how many people actually take the time to vote or look at the nominations?" That is the point, the people that actualy took the time to vote and look at the galleries arent very happy that their vote was disgarded, and the decision made by admin. They of course have the right to do just that, however I would be very surprised if participation in contests and voting for contests didnt dwindle after such a decision, I for one will not take the time to do so in the future.

who cares

Well Robby, I don't think you really want to have an explanation but here goes.

Some people have minds of their own and like to make decisions for themselves. Some people do not like management making choices for them. Some people actually thought that they should get to choose who the, ARTIST OF THE YEAR, for this whole 100,000 member website community, was going to be. Some people think that having the management vote for the AOY is ludicrous, when the membership is trusted to vote for the AOM, why not the AOY ?(which is much more important)

You want to trivialize this and I want to tell you why it IS worth getting steamed about. AOY does mean somthing. First of all there were monitary gains to be had and secondly, the winner, would have a nice feather in their caps. It would look really good on a resume when interviewing for a job !

This is life, why not live it

"It would look really good on a resume when interviewing for a job" assuming that job is producing soft porn I suppose it might :)

There were no winners - everybody lost, not only the admins, but also the members and artists. I think Toxic Angel should withdraw his name from the whole sordid process if he has any self-respect. If he puts it on his resumand some employer does some digging, it won't look very nice after the facts come to light.

mateo, you have a lot of gall saying that about Toxic Angel. He had nothing to do with this and was, in fact, as much a victim of the whole mess as Legume and every other nominee was.
As far as I'm concerned, Toxic Angel has every right to this accolade.
You have no right to insinuate anything against his character because of a mess the admins made.

You owe him an appology as far as I'm concerned.

...... Kendra

Fer gods sakes Illusions - CLOSE TAGS! CLOSE TAGS! ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Mosca: "Now, apparently, you want me to never, ever say the word "Legume"

Me: No, I want you to separate the issues...I just want you to be honest and stick to your real gripe which seems to be the PTB's are against Legume.

Mosca: "what I've said over and over is this: the way the poll was pulled...gave the appearance, to me, that management had invoked the Legume Rule once again...and withdrew the voting specifically because he...was making a run at first place"

Me: AH...at last we get to the heart of the matter, gee it would have been nice if you said that in the first place and stuck to it.

Mosca: "There's also an injustice done to ToxicAngel, and the other finalists."
Me: Nice of you to mention that but that evidently takes a back seat to your primary gripe.

Mosca: "Management says it was all a big mistake; I'm not convinced by that explanation."

Me: Tammymc said it was a mistake made by her, why would she lie? (Hmmm...reminiscent of the 60's...don't trust the etablishment).

Mosca" "Once again, FOMs (friends of management) are determined to make me the issue, and divert attention away from the message"

Me: Well, if you are referring to me I don't know any of the management let alone consider any of them friends. The only management that I knew and that I would consider a friend, is Ironbear...and he is no longer management here. As far as you being the issue...that's not the case. I have an issue with the way you go off "half-cocked", with the way you twist the facts to suit your needs, and with your "saber rattling". Nothing more, nothing less. As far as "diverting attentions away from the message" you kept changing the message...no need to blame anyone but yourself for that.

Mosca: "...attacking me just serves to keep these threads alive, and gives me an opportunity to ask, yet again, the questions I have regarding this year's AOY process."

Me: I don't know about anyone else...but I'm not attacking you Mosca...I'm debating the validity of your questions and your statements.

CyberStretch: "Seems like illusions has it out for you, Mosca. ;0)"

Me: No, I'm entitled to state my opinion, point of view, and debate...just like Mosca, you, or anyone else. Mosca started the "campaign" and has been the most "vocal" about it...I disagree with his position, the validity of his statements, and the way he goes about doing it. It's as simple as that.

dialyn: "I honestly think the whole AOY thing was messed up. And, yes, I think it should be revised (or just eliminated as an idea). snip "...What I don't buy into is this whole conspiracy thing. There is no logic to that. I can't deal with X-Files explanations."

Me: I have to agree with you dialyn. The idea of AOY not being determined by the membership is not the best idea. Although Time Magazine makes it's own determination of who will be "Person of the Year" so it's not that appalling of a concept. As far as conspiracy theories go...I agree with you 100%

Mosca: "My opinion on this matter is not based on conjecture and belief--it's based on my years of experience here, practically since day one, observing management's behavior: what they've done versus what they've said."

Me: Bottom line, your "years of experience here" = conjecture and belief and theories, which are the only conclusions that can be drawn through observation of anyone or anythings behavior.

Mosca: "It would be a wonderful world indeed if we were all 100% morally perfect in every regard, yes. Which leads me to wonder what your motivation is here--just baiting me, I suppose, which is fine."

Me: My motivation is to state my opinion...I disagree with your tactics, statements, and issues...why shouldn't I be able to do that without being called a shill, an FOM, or any other name?

Mosca: "Apparently you're happy with management's actions re AOY, but you shouldn't be--if I'm right about what happened, then they could just as easily do the same thing to you."

Me: Well, I don't think the way AOY is being done is the best way, but then again, the fact that members can't be trusted not to clone isn't very settling either. Please don't tell me what I should or should not be happy with...until you can provide more than opinions based on your observations...I don't feel you're very competent to determine what should or should not make me happy. If you're right about what happened...and thats a A VERY BIG IF I'd be very surprised! Somehow I can't see Legume being the motivation behind all this compared to the difficulty in having a legitimate vote without cloning and other such nonsense.

Mosca: "Sometimes I just crack me up, y'know?"

Me: Yep...sometimes you crack some of us up too! :^P

Theenk yew velly velly much. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

OOOOOOOPS...heheheh...caught that Ironbear, deleted and re-posted with closed tags! Uh...IB...you might want to back away from the fire a bit...I think your toes are smoking! :^P

"If he puts it on his resumand some employer does some digging, it won't look very nice after the facts come to light." What a load of bollocks. He did great to win. Big up on him.

"He did great to win." He didn't win. Admin decided to "honour" him with a meaningless "Title" that has been tarnished by the admins themselves.

Yeah, caught my 'stash on fire also. ;] Makes it much easier to read now.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

"conjecture and belief and theories...are the only conclusions that can be drawn through observation of anyone or anythings behavior." If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, my theory would tend to be that it may, in fact, be a duck.

Has anyone else noticed that ElorOnceDark and Doc Legume could be twin sons of different mothers?

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

"He didn't win." Yes, he did win. The fact you wish to lessen his achievement in order to attack the "terrible admins" is pathetic. Of course, you could have said "Well done to Toxic Angel for winning the competition, even though it was badly managed" but of course that wouldn't have given you the chance to bring someone down. And for those who think I'm a Legume-hater - that's not true. I genuinely think he is a funny guy and a great asset to this community (or was??? - has he gone now???) and if he had won - or "received the title" - whatever - I'd have been congratulating him now instead. I didn't vote because the poll had disappeared when I went, but I was going to vote for Legume. However, the fact he didn't win what most agree was a poorly organised competition doesn't induce me to take a hissy fit and decry the winner's title as "meaningless".

Hell people the war is over, the admins won. They did what they wanted with no regard to the membership, as usual, and there you go.... we all know where we stand now.

We had a pretty good idea of where we stood the moment the poll came down, or last year when they changed the AOM process after Legume won, or when they shut down C&D, and on and on. No skateboarding in the mall. Nothing to look at here, folks--please go back to your paint-by-numbers sets.

"Yes, he did win.The fact you wish to lessen his achievement in order to attack the "terrible admins" is pathetic" How do you consider this to be an "acheivement? What did he win? was it presented fairly? no. Was it open to all members to decide as was the first poll that was posted and pulled? no. How is this considered a hissy fit when he himself said he did not want to win this way? To offer congratulations would imply that i agree with the way this was handled and the outcome. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Now if they had let the poll stand, there's a good bet he would have won, and i would congratulate him. As it stands now- it's meaningless. Spiritbro is correct, as usual, there was the obligitory " oops gee i am sorry" then the "ask for feedback, not because we will actually do anything with it but hey if it gets them to shut up..."routine, then comes the total disregard for any feedback recieved.

You forgot the usual several days of silence while they circled the wagons. And sending shills to the forums to disrupt and divert the critics and complainers (bitchers and derailers, as one of the mods put it). And the summary and arbitrary bannings (x2000). The only surprise is that they haven't locked and deleted the critical threads yet--I guess they don't really have a pretext for doing so, since the tone has remained more or less civil.

Just to be historically accurate. The AOM voting process was changed after Legume and Mr Codini won in a row. Mr Codini was the last member that was actually nominated by the membership. It was believed that 2 sub-genius's winning, in a row, was setting a trend that Renderosity admins would rather have avoided. This was never confirmed, of course, but it did quack like a duck ! I also must say that there was NEVER an announcement that the AOY voting rules were changing, at least in my memory. Sorry to say, Illusions, but you seem to be the only one to remember any such announcement. If there would have been such an announcement then you would have seen huge threads, such as these, "discussing" that announcement. The Membership would have been in an uproar.

Mosca: "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, my theory would tend to be that it may, in fact, be a duck."

Me: Hmmmm...unless of course, it's a grebe, a duck-like bird with short legs designed for diving...which is often mistaken for a duck.

shouldn't sny changes have been posted in here? after all- it does say uptop "This forum is to be used to contact the administration of this website to address issues relating to the operation and well-being of this community. On occasion, the team will use this forum to communicate with members about announcements relevant to the site and/or operation of this community. " Also what prize was awarded? it said there would be a prize awarded for AOY? Now either they chose to not announce it- (which could possibly be illegal - refering to the other threads where tennessee contest rules and regs are posted and viewing the post office contest and sweepstakes fraud page) or they decided to not give one which again could possibly violoate Tennessee contest regulations and Post office regulations because if they said one was being given and they didnt....

Badco: The AOM voting process was changed after Legume and Mr Codini won in a row. (snip) It was believed that 2 sub-genius's winning, in a row, was setting a trend that Renderosity admins would rather have avoided. This was never confirmed, of course, but it did quack like a duck !

Me: "Never confirmed"...perhaps it was whispered in the men's room...a most reliable source of facts.

So, two ducks walk into a men's room...

Good point, Cheryle--I'd forgotten about the Mystery Prize. Maybe it depends who the winner is (Anyone but Legume: software, a big-ass Wacom, a free trip to Siggraph, etc., etc. Legume: a gift certificate to Arby's). I'm also curious about the conduct of the admin/mod AOY "vote." tammymc said each mod and each admin would get one vote, to be weighted equally. So what were the numbers? Who was the runner-up? Who was Miss Congeniality? Management could go a long way toward dispelling mistrust if it was a bit more trasnparent about these processes.

Mosca: "So, two ducks walk into a men's room..." Me: Look again, I have it on good authority they were grebes, not ducks at all... :^P

"How do you consider this to be an "acheivement? What did he win? was it presented fairly? no." Well, we're never going to agree here, but to me it's an achievement for a guy who (a) won AOM and (b) was actually in the lead when the AOY voting was pulled, to be given the title. It's not as if he'd previously had no chance and his name was picked out of a hat. There would have been just the same amount of uproar (if not more) if Legume had won, amongst allegations of vote fixing, etc, so would his victory have been equally scorned? If utter fairness were a criterion for acceptance of the validity for a title (lot of long words, there) then how many presidents or prime ministers or councillors would there be whose positions were respected and recognised? (Hint, the answer is none). "he himself said he did not want to win this way?" Of course he didn't, who would? But because the way AOY works he'll never get another chance at it and to tarnish this unique achievement because of the failings of others is, in my eyes, plain mean.

"But because the way AOY works he'll never get another chance at it" Yes he will- Roobol was AOM in december and the rules state one is not elegible for another year- yet He is up For AOM this month as well.

"There would have been just the same amount of uproar (if not more) if Legume had won, amongst allegations of vote fixing, etc, so would his victory have been equally scorned?" You mean, if the admins chose him? Or the members?

It doesn't matter who had chose Legume.....the win would have been tainted because it would have been perceived that Legume won because he and his advocates were louder and more squeaky than those of the other artists (who have seemed very quiet by comparison). The only difference is that if he had won, we would have had a lot of crowing about the success of the strategy, and he wouldn't have pulled his gallery and other art (did he do that to protest not winning or the administrators or because he is a spoil sport who pouts when he doesn't get his own way....and who cares?) The joke has been played on all of us. Too bad it wasn't funny.

"You mean, if the admins chose him? Or the members?" I was meaning if the members chose him - if the admins had never jumped in with their size 13s and instead had let the voting go on. (I know Legime would never get chosen by the admins!) But I reckon if he'd have won there would have been a big to-do about vote stuffing and "improper art" and there would be a lot of members saying the same thing about Legume's win as is now being said about Toxic Angel's - i.e. it's not worth anything. In that respect, no matter what you think of what happened, the basic outcome was always going to be the same.

"Well, we're never going to agree here" I agree with that statement " but to me it's an achievement for a guy who (a) won AOM and (b) was actually in the lead when the AOY voting was pulled, to be given the title." Not the way it was done, not to mention it might have been illegal according to Postal Regulations concerning Sweepstakes and contest, and tennessee law. " It's not as if he'd previously had no chance and his name was picked out of a hat". That actually may have been more fair but that is neither here nor there. " There would have been just the same amount of uproar (if not more) if Legume had won, amongst allegations of vote fixing, etc, so would his victory have been equally scorned?" Actually it would have been scorned more. If utter fairness were a criterion for acceptance of the validity for a title We are talking about legalities here- Were tennessee contest rules and reg violated? Were Postal regulations concerning contests and sweepstakes violated? Kinda looks that way... (lot of long words, there) thats ok- you may use them, i will understand them in spite of your implied view that i would not. then how many presidents or prime ministers or councillors would there be whose positions were respected and recognised? (Hint, the answer is none). Don't even go there- I work for campain managers grinding out political ads.There wasn't a day that went by that one campaign manager was not calling up the next threatening lawsuits for inflammation of char, slandser, libel etc and in the end we did nothing illegal. It was ugly and the ads made the papers but it was still legal. "he himself said he did not want to win this way?" " But because the way AOY works" The way AOY works is whicherver the admins want it to work at any given moment, which is the issue not Legume vs Toxic Angel. " he'll never get another chance at it and to tarnish this unique achievement" It's not unique and see above he will of course get another chance.See above " because of the failings of others is, in my eyes, plain mean. " Instead of considering it mean, why not try to get it changed for the better so it doesn't happen again- How many people have to go thru this charade befor enough is enough? Some of us ARE trying to make this a tad more fair and trying to get admins to be a tad more responsive, accountable , but it seems to be a losing battle.

True--by choosing to appease the Legume haters, management traded one problem for another. One that probably seems more manageable in the long run. I'm not sure they factored everything in when making that decision, though--we'll see.

I honestly don't think they were appeasing Legume haters...I don't recall anyone posting anti-Legume language. I don't hate Legume. I don't know Legume. He has a devoted and vocal following, that's all I was saying. This league of Legume haters is the conspiracy in your head...I don't think it exists in reality.

"I agree with that statement..." + long post... + "We are talking about legalities here" I wasn't. I have not posted any views about how well the contest was managed, how it might be improved, what the legalities of the decision were, I was merely stating that a winner had been announced and it would be nice if a few people could just say "well done", instead scrabbling around for any leverage possible in their War Against Unjust Contest Rulings even if it means rubbishing somebody's very impressive acheivements. "thats ok- you may use them, i will understand them in spite of your implied view that i would not." That inference never crossed my mind; I was trying to make my post just a little more light-hearted, but I guess anything can be twisted around if you try hard enough. And as for winning AOY twice, yeah, sure, that could happen... : It's like, Oh, I've lost my winning lottery ticket - don't worry, you can enter next week.

Go look in the previous threads- it's there- I am at work right now so i am not going to babysit and post them in here but i found more than a few . Also that last dig was unnessesary, and a possible violation of tos ( considered a personal attack by implyuing one is crazy)

EEP Post 86 was response to post 84- not yours tuttle.

Tuttle i can't say well done because no matter who "won" it was not well done! It was gross incompetence at best, possibly illegal at worst. (not the artists- the way it was handled) Please excuse typos- i am not at my reg workstation.

Oh, yes, of course. Mosca can create a League of Legume Haters (post #83) so of course my protest that it may not exist outside of his accusations makes me a TOS violator. It's really amusing how far one will go to get rid of anyone who disagrees with your point of view. Sad. But I'm not surprised. I used to watch the X-Files. Mulder believed in conspiracies. I didn't think the fictional character of Mulder was crazy because of his beliefs, nor do I doubt many conspiracy theorists in reality are less than sincere. For the record, I don't think and didn't imply that Mosca was crazy...that was a label placed on my words by Cheryle (post #86). I don't think every conspiracy a person thinks exists does exists...just because I think a thing doesn't bring it into reality, nor does it make me insane because it isn't real. That was my opinion only, and if you want me off the forums, there are easier ways to achieve it. For the record, I wouldn't try to judge the sanity of anyone on these forums by their posts, nor would I want that responsibility.

Oh, and because I want to keep my sanity, that's the end of my reading this thread today. Enjoy your Sunday, everyone. Time for me to spend mine more productively.

diaylyn Oh, yes, of course. Mosca can create a League of Legume Haters (post #83) newp- that was attributed to him by other members in previous posts. so of course my protest that it may not exist outside of his accusations makes me a TOS violator. newp- the way you phrased it does. It's really amusing how far one will go to get rid of anyone who disagrees with your point of view newp- wouldnt do that cause then it would get boring. . Sad. But I'm not surprised. I used to watch the X-Files Mulder believed in conspiracies. I didn't think the fictional character of Mulder was crazy because of his beliefs, nor do I doubt many conspiracy theorists in reality are less than sincere. And this has to do with a contest gone bad how? For the record, I don't think and didn't imply that Mosca was crazy...that was a label placed on my words by Cheryle (post #86). This league of Legume haters is the conspiracy in your head...I don't think it exists in reality. I can see how that doesn't imply that now! Thx for clearing that up! I don't think every conspiracy a person thinks exists does exists...just because I think a thing doesn't bring it into reality, nor does it make me insane because it isn't real. Actually i think that is one of the definitions of insanity. That was my opinion only, and if you want me off the forums, there are easier ways to achieve it. Wait- i can say this now-Cause you cleared this up fpr me! No one wants you off the forums! that's a consiracy in your head! I don't think that exists in reality!

"The AOM voting process was changed after Legume and Mr Codini won in a row. Mr Codini was the last member that was actually nominated by the membership. It was believed that 2 sub-genius's winning, in a row, was setting a trend that Renderosity admins would rather have avoided. This was never confirmed, of course, but it did quack like a duck !"

I never believed that it was his art alone that might have turned TPTB against him. And last night after reading a bit in the newsgroup he posts in, I have a much different opinion about Legumes actions regarding this site and the members who created accounts to join him in screwing with us.

I've defended him but I was very offended by the comments I read.
They were all encompassing including not just the admins but the members as well. He and his group has been playing us for a very long time apparently.
I got very angry at reading it and some of you still on the bandwagon for legume would probably be offended at being played so as well.

"Ok kids, let's have some more fun over at Renderosity"
"The gag this time: Two months in a row, a SubGenius wins AOM"
"I can't believe the bitter little trolls at Renderosity!"

and then there's the copy and pasting of forum comments that they have their little fun with. I withdraw any support I had for him.

I'm angry at this whole thing. At the mistake being hashed over and over for two weeks, at Legume for learning we at this site are just here to be played, and at anyone who calls anyone who HAPPENS to disagree with them a "shill".

Me? I'm going to render some more cookie-cutter images he and his friends love to create accounts to belittle. This whole thing just became stupid beyond all belief.

...... Kendra

Oh, and Roobol didn't win last year. THAT'S why he's still eligible for AOM this year.

...... Kendra

"This league of Legume haters is the conspiracy in your head...I don't think it exists in reality. " I disagree, If you want to see the league of Legume haters, just read the comments on his Magic Pink Pony peice. Tons of Legume haters appeared around that time!Read all the threads. Like I said why argue over this now? The war is over, What is done is done, AOY is appointed by admin FOREVER! The precedent has been set. Thats the way it is folks, you can never vote for AOY again. Period. Now are you going to take the time to vote for AOM? Im not, why bother? AOY though is now chosen by admin alone and there is nothing that can or will be done about it. Admin has once again made a decision with blatant disregard for memberships feelings and will continue to do so every chance they get. Thats just the way things are done at rosity. You better get used to it because it's going to happen again.

"I've defended him but I was very offended by the comments I read.
They were all encompassing including not just the admins but the members as well. He and his group has been playing us for a very long time apparently."

Where? Can ya post some links? I want to be offended too. :)

Kendra Actually there was a front page article on Roobal winning AOM ( not AOY) for decembre- but after rereading the AOM regulations- it appears i was wrong on that one - it states "An artist can only be AOM for one time during the year. Those artists who have won this title during the current year will not be included in the voting for a new AOM." The term current year indicates calendar year not a year from date of "election" Legume aside- I still think the way contests are held on this site definately either need to be overhauled or discontinued. Last time i tried to do the newsgroup thing, i ended up at some bizzare porn site place- been afraid to try again ever since then ;P.

Dialyn, nobody's work gets flamed with the intensity and vitriol that Legume's does (did, I mean, before he yanked his gallery). Don't try to tell me I'm imagining things when I say that Legume provokes strong reaction on both sides of the fence.

Kendra--isn't Legume entitled to his opinions about R'osity? I mean, as long as he stays within the TOS here, he can say and do what he likes over at alt.slack, right?

Huh--just went there, and ab3dp, and didn't see but a few posts from Legume, only one referring to R'osity. Is there another group I don't know about, or do I need a better news service?

Kendra, Which newsgroup are you reffering too ?

I was going to respond to the nonsense attributed to me but I don't see the point. So I deleted my message and you all can thing whatever silly things you want. One point of clarification and one only: Me: ....just because I think a thing doesn't bring it into reality, nor does it make me insane because it isn't real. Cheryl: Actually i think that is one of the definitions of insanity. Reality check: Actually it is the definition of someone who is inventive, creative, and/or artistic. It is not insanity to me...it is what writers and graphic artists do. They create what did not exist before they created it. That is the act of imagination.

If anyone wants to see the bullcrap legume and his sub-moron buddies have been pulling just go to google.com and look up alt.slack in the newsgroups. They archive all the posts so you can read messages that have expired off your news server. Go back to the time of the AOY and you can read them hatch the whole plan. Then read him cry about it when he got caught. It would be funny if they weren't so damned retarded I wasn't really a legume hater before but I am now !! I never commented on his stuff before, didn't think it was good enough to look at much less comment on. I have my dues where do I sign up for this league ?

Why hate Legume? You'll just make him very happy :-)

His pieces aren't complete until the hate messages are posted under each one. This is the art IMO.

The only trouble is that he has two modes, one that provokes to create, and the art that stands on it's own without the outside participation. It's a conflict.

One can expect to be rewared for the more traditional efforts, but that is cancelled out by the other.

I can't imagine that Doc would care much about the AOY, but maybe he does and that would be a weakness in the plan to me.

-JH.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=1017828&Reply=1022253#191

Kendra wrote in #92: >and then there's the copy and pasting of forum comments >that they have their little fun with. I can only guess, but are you refering to my use of your comment in my .signature file? You had given me the impression that you didn't mind when I had told you that I wanted to do so. See the link above for that exchange.

The real point is not really whether Legume deserved to win. Art is in the eye of the beholder, to paraphrase, but whether Rosity had the right to pull the right to VOTE away from us mid-stream! They feel they are above all rules and laws here, and can spoonfeed us little goodies like "This thread is locked", "This thread is going nowhere" or "Is this a personal attack?" when asked a simple question. One of these days it will come back to bite them in the collective arses... In the meantime, it's not worth to vote anywhere here.

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

"I can't believe the bitter little trolls at Renderosity!" Heck... I often can't believe the bitter little trolls at Renderosity. And I almost live here. ;] Caling "the league of Legume haters" a "League" would presume organization on their part. "Crowd" might be more descriptive. Or "Mob". If his AOM article is still up, you can see enought hateful comments in the comments field under it to bear out that there's more than a few. Ditto for threads in this forum dating to that timeframe.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

hmatienzo: "The real point is not really whether Legume deserved to win. Art is in the eye of the beholder, to paraphrase, but whether Rosity had the right to pull the right to VOTE away from us mid-stream!"

Me: Yes, they did have the right, if they got wind of the alt.slack post about "flooding the vote". Yes, they did have the right, since they decided to make it an Admin/Mod vote after last years contest...the only problem is They didn't bother to communicate their reasons to us, nor did They bother to post the changes to the decision making process in a predominant place.

They have a right to do whatever They want, They also have an obligation to communicate their policies and decisions to the membership.

as long as it falls within state//federal laws of course.

"I can only guess, but are you refering to my use of your
comment in my .signature file? You had given me the
impression that you didn't mind when I had told you that I
wanted to do so. See the link above for that exchange. "

No. It refers to discussions in the forums, pasted to the newsgroup where the "geniuses" comment on how stupid the poster is. If I didn't want you to use that I'd have said so. None of my quotes are original. :)

...... Kendra

Wow, Legume came up with a whole new concept. I bet no one has ever thought of asking people to vote for them before. Wait until the politicians in Washington get wind of this. This will cause a revolution. Politicians will make speeches in public and promise things to people if they vote for them. Think of the implications. Imagine a world where people won elections because they had friends and alliances. What would this world come to?

Apples and oranges dude. This wasn't a political race. It was an art contest for this site. Bringing in people that have nothing to do with this site, and their multitude of clones just to vote for you is cheating,low down,and just plain wrong. If he wants to run for political office..more power to him. But that crap doesn't belong here. Now where are all thiose people that jumped on me for calling legume a cheater? He did and I was right..I have seen no apologies....hm

He didn't cheat, so no apology from me.

Oh no, Lon, it's never political. Politics, I'm sure never enters into an election unless, well, it's political. Let's get one thing straight here and now Lon: Legume is my friend, has been for quite a while now. When he mentioned that he was in the running for artist of the year, I actually looked at the work of his competition before I committed my LEGITIMATE vote. I saw a lot of really good artwork that stood up very well and deserved to be in the running. Codini, also a friend, was in the running as well. The bottom line though was that Legume's art, whether you like it or not, always evokes an emotion. Legume has managed to make the message his medium. Yes, often his work is satirical and I would suppose if you imagine yourself to be the target of this, you'd find it uncomfortable. However, I can't deny that I always find his work interesting, provocative and razor sharp. If you can't see the art in that then maybe you should take a night class.

Art is subjective, that's that. Your opinion is your own. I think we can all agree on that. The problem is not whether or not certain individual got elected or not. The problem is the said person/ group had organized to commit election fraud, soliciting people to create multiple membership account just to stack the poll. Some of you may rationalize with the "his art is to be controversial, that's his type of art." and commiting such act as to hijacking the AOY election would be his "ultimate creation"! So I guess being fair, respecting people's Point of view and their freedom of speech can all take the back seat and put personal gain, prestige, pride or "my right to express what art is" to the top of the list then. After all, "I" am more important than everyone else in the world right?

I don't care if he's your bussom buddy and I'm not even talking about his art. I'm talking of rigging the vote with clones and people that have nothing to do with this site. That has nothing to do with art whatsoever. No need to go to class to figure that out. Your buddy legume canceled your vote when he invited non-members to come in and sway the vote, so cry on his shoulder. He not only caused your vote not to count but the vote of every legit member of Renderosity. As for legumes art. I don't care for it. Technically lacking and his wit not to my tastes. If I want political humor I'll head to comedy central. I come here for art not to get his political opinions shoved on me. Keep that crap in alt.slack as for codini....joined just for this circus side show and hasn't posted a thing since. I see things real clear. As was stated on a gallery image of legume's ( deleted of course so I can't give credit to the author) He's about as transparent as saran wrap as are his motives. Move along now

Oh well, you know what they say about wrestling with pigs. (you know, you get dirty and the pig has fun). I am compelled though to say that I'm neither a "clone" nor a "sub moron" and I resent people like you who resort to name calling when they don't get their way. I believe I spanked my child once for such behavior. She learned, you can too. My final sugestion to you would be to do your art, make some friends and maybe next time someone can vote for you. I've never been one to enjoy a flame war and I generally avoid them at all cost so I'm going to excuse myself now from this pleasant little thread and move to greener pastures.

see ya. I do make my art have my friends and generaly enjoy life. If you had bothered to read some here you would know I have said to drop all the contests and the hot 20 a few times. I don't believe art should be a competition. I don't care about winning so I don't enter them. I'm also not worried about getting my way. In fact I haven't asked for anything. Just not to crazy about people that 1: have no gallery 2: have no history here 3: post nothing but negative posts 3: troll the galleries sounds kind of like you huh? Like you said wrestling with pigs... It will rub off on you. I have nothing to hide or be ashamed about. . Can you say the same for the friends you so valaintly stand up for ? I suggest you do move along to greener pastures...no sheep here!!

We need edit here. There are 4 points in the previous post don't let the 2 threes in a row mess you up.

Edits would be a nice feature. No one is going to agree on this. The Legume devotees believe everything he does is wonderful, intelligent, witty and that it is a great loss to the community to have him gone. There are people, I suppose who hate him or who are jealous of him, or despise him and are glad to see the last of him. The vast majority of us don't care and have no interest in him....I never found his art or his postings to be particualrly interesting, or intellectually stimulating....but I understand that I am one of those few who also find the fascination for Adam Sandler a mystery but that doesn't keep his movies from making money. I am surprised that people are so attached to someone who has been outspoken on the topic of making fun of the people here and despising the community. Oh well. What is very sad is that no one on either side (members or administration) can be trusted to do the right thing. Legume didn't force anyone to vote for him...if people created clone accounts at his urging, it's because they have no ethics which says something sad about them and nothing particularly good about Legume (and I say "if" because I don't know if he did this or not--it's a subject I haven't researched and won't bother to because there are already too many people who can quote Legume chapter and verse). However, in Legume's honor, I provide the following amusement which seems to be at his level of ultra-sophisticated and social comment as I had privilege to experience it: The Genealogy of Mr. Jack Schitt The lineage is finally revealed. Many people are at a loss for a response when someone says, "You don't know Jack Schitt." Now you can intellectually handle the situation. Jack is the only son of Awe Schitt and O. Schitt. Awe Schitt, the fertilizer magnate, married O. Schitt, the owner of Needeep N. Schitt Inc. They had one son, Jack. In turn, Jack Schitt married Noe Schitt, and the deeply religious couple produced 6 children: Holie Schitt, Fulla Schitt, Giva Schitt, Bull Schitt, and the twins: Deap Schitt and Dip Schitt. Against her parent's objections, Deap Schitt married Dumb Schitt, a high school drop out. However, after being married 15 years, Jack and Noe Schitt divorced. Noe Schitt later remarried Ted Sherlock and, because her kids were living with them, she wanted to keep her previous name. She was then known as Noe Schitt-Sherlock. Meanwhile, Dip Schitt married Loda Schitt and they produced a son of nervous disposition, Chicken Schitt. Two other of the 6 children, Fulla Schitt and Giva Schitt, were inseparable throughout childhood and subsequently married the Happens brothers in a dual ceremony. The wedding announcement in the newspaper announced the Schitt-Happens wedding. The Schitt-Happens children were Dawg, Byrd, and Hoarse. Bull Schitt, the prodigal son, left home to tour the world. He recently returned from Italy with his new Italian bride, Pisa Schitt. So now when someone says, "You don't know Jack Schitt", you can correct them.

:-)

Well Diayln i agree with most of what you said (and am not going to nit pick the parts i don't cause well- we will never agree upon those points) But overall a decent summary Now if i can just get the damn email me when someone replies to stop emailing me after i have unchecked it a few times grrrr....

Lon Chaney said in #111:

This wasn't a political race. It was an art contest for
this site.

I beg to differ. Art is an expression of opinion. The
more well expressed that opinion is, the better the art
is judged to be. Politicians are elected based on how
well they can communicate their opinions (mud-slinging
tactics aside, and note that Legume never slung
mud against those with whom he competed).

The only real difference between an art contest and
a politcal race is the medium in which the opinions
are conveyed and the "prize" which is awarded to the
winners.

Bringing in people that have nothing to do with this site,
and their multitude of clones just to vote for you is
cheating,low down,and just plain wrong.

So how many "clone" votes did you count, Lon?

That's right; you have no way of knowing how many votes
were by clones, or if any were by clones. Therefor
your accusations are based entirely on speculation.

I've read through most of the threads you mention and
did not see Legume suggest that people create "clone"
accounts. I certainly never created a clone account.

Legume simply solicited votes in a forum other than here
on Renderosity.

P.S. I resent your slanderous "sub-moron" comment. It
was suggested that I have you banned for it. I'm not going
to though, as I believe that you (as everyone) have a
right to express your opinion freely. You do feel
the same way, don't you?

"Lon Chaney said in #111: >This wasn't a political race. It was an art contest for >this site. I beg to differ. Art is an expression of opinion. The more well expressed that opinion is, the better the art is judged to be. Politicians are elected based on how well they can communicate their opinions (mud-slinging tactics aside, and note that Legume never slung mud against those with whom he competed). The only real difference between an art contest and a politcal race is the medium in which the opinions are conveyed and the "prize" which is awarded to the winners." This is so far out there not sure how to respond. Art=politics LOL you've got to be kidding me right. Your streching on this one. I see no conection between an art contest and campaigning for office. Maybe the campaign signs are made by artist but from the ones I've seen I doubt it. Nice try but no way is an art contest like a political race unless your legume.

Lon Chaney, Master of the Pratronizing Wise Crack: >Here I'll help you. go to google.com. then click on groups. >type in alt.slack. then search for legume. if you look >you'll find it. Read >all that then come back and try to convince me what legume >did is right. What Legume did is right. What others may have done is wrong. Is that simple enough for you, or should I post a Poser scene depicting what I've said?

Wrong what legume did was wrong. He knew they would do that because they did it to get him to the AOM. Your acting as if legume just posted his vote for me message then went on his merry way without ever going back. You are livivng a fantasy. He knew exactly what would happen so don't give me the legume is innocent >------------------------------------------------------ > Legume hunched over a computer, typing feverishly; > thunder crashed, Legume laughed madly, then wrote: > > > > >Hey, go to this site and vote for me as Renderosity Artist of the Month! > > > >http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewStory=1258 > > You have to be a member to vote. They wouldn't let me. > Don't worry about the registration, it's painless. You just click the 'Join Now!' button on the right menu bar. You don't have to leave any important information, though they do verify your email address (no doubt to sell to spammers, though I haven't noticed any increase in my daily spam since I signed on). It also deposits a cookie in IE, but that means you can also Copy & Paste the URL to vote on Legume's stuff: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=Legume Do it, dude! It's fun! I haven't seen as amusing a stunt for baiting artistes since I was in school. Most of these guys are in the 'Amateur SF/Fantasy Artists Who Can't Get Breasts Right' category of the Geek Hierarchy, so you can imagine how humorless they are. It's great. You'll feel so clean afterwards. You can also see / vote for my 'hommages' to Legume's work: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=MrJim Smiles, Your Reverend Jim ------------------------------------------------ here is another gem from the newsgroup ------------------------------------------------------- Legume wrote: > > http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewStory=2510 Okay, I'm all signed in. I'm looking at the page. Now where the HELL does it say anything to the effect of "click on this link to vote for Legume"? Sure, it says "Before you cast your vote, take a moment to browse through the galleries of our nominees:" Which has nothing to do with actually voting. Please to spoon-feed me step-by-step instructions. Didn't we do this last time? -- "Who hasn't barfed up a slug or two?" --Juniper Greenwood, Wizard -------------------------------------------------- can't even figure out how to register and vote LOL here is another good one -------------------------------------------------- > Maybe they just didn't want the winner to be an ASSHOLE who > DELIBERATELY FUCKS WITH THEM and tries to STUFF THE BALLOT BOX. Maybe > roping in a lot of folks who are not otherwise involved or interested > and getting them to vote for you is what THEY think a fix is. Being > an asshole and a BABY, now that is not good. Some people NEED to be fucked with, Nenslo. I'd think YOU would understand that more than anyone. And I only "fuck with them" in the capacity that I don't post the same generic Poser pin-ups that inundate the site. As for "stuffing the ballot box", hey, it's no sin to have people who like my artwork outside the boundaries of the site, and there's no rule that says I can't campaign off-site for votes. Frankly, I should be artist of the Year there because I'm the only one of all the candidates who isn't trapped into creating images of the same genre over and over...genres that have already been fucked to death by a thousand other artists there. -- Legume ----------------------------------------------------- more you say. sure here's another -------------------------------------------------------- So get your own website and then YOU decide what happens there. It's their website and they run it the way they want to. Every asshole who gets his kicks out of jerking people around for his own pleasure thinks he's doing them a BIG FAVOR. Stop lying to yourself; you're not MEAN, NASTY AND HATEFUL as an exercise in philanthropy, you do it because you enjoy it and that's the name of that tune. The reason so much of the art at Renderosity is similar is because THAT'S WHAT THEY LIKE. They aren't into being all "creative" or "daring" or fucking with people's heads. They're into doing what interests them and showing it to each other. You went into THEIR environment and you're all "oh I got cheated" because you can't force them to do things according to your whim. GET THIS - normal people DON'T LIKE being agitated, disturbed, fucked with and jerked around. It does NOT improve their lives or make them happier. It does NOT make the world a better place to screw things up for the normals just because you are an asshole. They are the ones who keep everything running so we can loaf around and think of fucked up concepts and show them to each other. THEY are not the target audience for that sort of thing, THEY are not capable of appreciating it, and if you insist on thrusting fucked up concepts in the faces of normals they will suddenly and shockingly change things so you can't do it any more. That's the world you are living in, so don't be a whiney baby about it. Take what you get and like it. I've got a whole closet full of fucked up art that NOBODY wants to see and I have the sense to keep my big yap shut about it and not further humiliate myself by acting like the world is unfair and I am so unappreciated. SUCK IT UP, YOU FUCKING PUSSY. DON'T BE SUCH A GODDAMN PANTYWAIST. --------------------------------------------------- this was from one of the regulars of alt.slack below is legumes responce -------------------------------------------------- Cram it up your wrinkled old ass, you geriatric pig-felcher. If I want your fucking opinion I'll fetch your teeth out of the glass and stuff them in you withered old pie hole. In other words: "Shut Up, Nenslo". -- Legume ---------- Oh he is just the guy for the AOY. Sorry guy you'll have to do much better than that if you want to convince me. yes I'm patranizonizing you because you legume supporters seem to want to gloss over this stuff as if legume knew nothing and I'm not falling for it. You better post a poser scene because your words arn't convincing me.