Okay, so management has made its decision regarding the AOY, and chosen a winner. You said earlier that all the mods and admins would get 1 vote, weighted equally. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm curious about the numbers--what was the final tally? I'm not asking who voted for who; just how many. I think maybe at this point management owes the customer-members this little slice of transparency.

how many mods and admins voted? is this your question? 24

Nope--how many voted for each finalist. We seem to be posting in different languages or something.

Any commercial enterprise is going to have complaints about its products or policies. When management sets a precedent for ignoring complaints, even if some of them are paranoid or rude or hostile, it begins to look arrogant and contemptuous of its client base. There may be a way to solve this without admitting guilt or appearing weak, and it's not too late to bring a good finish to this.

Percentage of voting. ToxicAngel = 38% Carles_P = 29% cneofotistos = 8% EricClaeys = 4% rohi = 4% gevidal = 4% nitro115 = 4%

38% of hardly anything = not very much. That a simple tally of the actual number of votes cast for each artist is not forthcoming only indicates to me that there might be a little remnant of residual shame at the sandy ground AOY is built upon. In reality it is Administrations Artist of the Year which represents what? The attempts to appear reasonable after the event heightens the duplicity of the proceedings. Blech!

On the AOY page, it used to state something to the effect of " prize to be announced closer to the end of the contest." That WAS posted at the time of this AOY. Was the prize announced? Was it given out?

38+29+8+4+4+4+4=91% Is something missing here?

there's only 7 artists mentioned - 5 are missing- there are 12 months in a year... And 35 mods//admins listed on "meet the team- not including store testers or magazine staff

hummmm..guess that means 5 artist got zero votes. but yeah, the missing 9%...does that mean some admins declined to vote?

So Legume didnt get any votes at all? Figures. Gevidal only got 4%? Figures. This does explain a lot of things though doesnt it?

I am surprised TerryGH did not get any votes- he's got some pretty amazing work...

Someone got their knob polished over this, while others just plain got screwed... Jack

Revealing in a couple of ways. At best it confirms what I've been saying about the establishment of a pretty clear cut "official" aesthetic here. At worst, it really does look like personality issues came into play--how else does Legume get 23% of the oops vote, win the unoffical vote, but end up with 0% of the admin vote? Illusions--well said. I agree 100%.

Brendan--tammymc says 24 staff members voted. So, that means 9 votes for TA, 7 for carles_p, 2 for cneofotistos, and 1 each for EricClaeys, rohi, gevidal and nitro115. Two votes are unaccounted for, apparently. Probably a miscommunication.

if it was 2 for carles- then it would be a tie- how would the tie be broken? I would think they would have a vote off between the two but i have thought that before and have been wrong ;P

As far as I can deduce JeffH has been missing from the Poser forum for a week. I have to conclude that as he has not been responding to comments in the * Unofficial Poll* thread he set up and did not post the final tally that he said he would, we can assume he was not involved in the admins vote? That leaves the tally of possible votes at?,,,, well of course it is not possible to say!,,,,is it?

Maybe they miscounted. Maybe the dog ate the missing votes. Maybe they were smuggled out of the country with false passports.

Maybe clones broke into the office and stole them.

Rosity + Contest = ???????? lmao

Well I have been handling the AOM for three years now... and I have screwed up the communications for 3 years.. now. Think I should be fired from handling this since I can not seem to get the communications correct on this for some reason. Here are the correct percentages. ToxicAngel : 38 % Carles_P : 29 % rohi : 13 % cneofotistos : 8 % EricClaeys : 4 % Gevidal : 4 % nitro115 : 4 % tammy

interesting 38% = 9.12 votes 29% = 6.96 votes 13% = 3.12 votes 8% = 1.92 votes 4% = 0.96 votes 4% = 0.96 votes 4% = 0.96 votes Total = 24 votes admins can split themselves into small decimal parts . Wow

And that's just ONE of their super powers.

Tammy said: "Think I should be fired from handling this since I can not seem to get the communications correct on this for some reason." Can we put that up for a Community vote? :o) Jack

Jesus, why dont they just say x got 2 votes y got 3 etc? Is it a state secret how many votes were cast for whom? Not like they would be saying who voted for who.

Better watch it Jack or you will vanish like X2000 did. One day your here the next, poof your gone.

ToxicAngel : 9 votes Carles_P : 7 votes rohi : 3 votes cneofotistos : 2 votes EricClaeys : 1 vote Gevidal : 1 vote nitro115 : 1 vote 9+7+3+2+1+1+1=24

Screw AOY. I'm naming myself Artist of the Day for January 7. I got ALL the votes because it's my contest, so nya-nya-nya. So what if I don't have a gallery anymore. It's MY contest, hear? So I won, and get over it. :)

Congrats! a well deserved award. An inspiration to everyone here. If nobody wants AOD tomorrow can I have it?....hold on!... it's never tomorrow, it's always today. Sheesh!

Your vapor-gallery is the envy of everyone here. Congratulations, atthisstage. Brendan--you can be AOT.

No need for a community vote, Jack. Another admin will be handling these from now on and will do a much better job than I. tammy

I have a question. Granted no one will want to answer it, but hey thats what I am here for. Why are you all still complaining about this? Why the whining? Just don't understand this at all. It's DONE!!! LET IT GO! ToxicAngel won, he deserved to win he's an amazing artist. End of Story. I don't think there is some big Rosity cover up conspiracy. I think theres alot of people with nothing better to do than dream up reasons they are being opressed. For crying out loud, it's over with...for your own sanity, whats left of it, LET IT GO. On another note, for everyone bashing an admin and what they do or how they voted, why don't you try being one. Just for a day. :) Then we'll see how great you run Rosity. My 2 cents, Gina

Hear hear! I agree, Gina. Whole-freakin-heartedly. Spec

excellent post and i agree toxic angel is an amazing artist i just pray he doesnt read all this because it could very well put doubts in his mind as to his talents yes others are as talented but its done now and there isnt anything any of us can do about it so why complain has it ever changed anything ?-just my opinion

No doubt, Bravo! Let's get a life now people ok?

Uh, guys, AOY isn't just as title -- there's some pretty decent prizes that accompany it. And see, this is what has people upset more than anything, I think. If it were just some title like Miss Southern Hog Yeller, it'd be no biggie. But there's slightly more involved here than just a vapor tiara. Mosca: glad you like it. I worked long and hard to create that image of "Sorry, no files match your search" in such a way that it looks precisely like the one Rsity uses. You'd never know that was a texture wrapped around Dina, would you?

atthisstage, so let me get this straight..people aren't crying about the title they are whining about the prizes. Oh it all makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up. Give me a break. I understand what you are saying, but who cares. If someone posting in this forum was in the running and is upset because they didn't get a chance to have all their friends vote them in, sorry. But honestly, who cares. I still don't get it. They were all good artists and well deserving...ok well I think they all were I didn't recognize a name or 2. So what does it matter who won!?!?!? Is this basically because the admins took the power out of your hands? Because newsflash, just because Rosity is a community doesn't mean we get to decide EVERYTHING that happens here. I just REALLY think that this is a long and ridiculous thread full of people upset. To be honest, I am sure half of you dont even really KNOW why you are upset. Someone (Mosca) started screaming and the rest joined in. It happens all the time, Im just sick of seeing it. Tammymc, I don't know what happened to be honest, and I don't know you or your role here at Rosity, but I am sincerely sorry that you were openly attacked. It was rude and uncalled for and Im sorry you were attacked like that. Cheers Gina

Which brings us right back toWHen the AOY was put up for a poll- it said there were to be prizes. Where there Prizes given out? What were they?

Why does it matter what the prizes were? In all honesty, everyone's been saying it's all null and void, which to each their own. But if it's null and void, why do the prizes have any bearing whatsoever? Spec

Because spectre they said there were to be prizes for AOY to be announced closer to the end of contest. According to both fed law and Tennessee regs concerning contests and awards- if they say there is to be one- they have to say what it is and give it out - if they don't the contest//award could possibly be illegal

Well Cimerone- since you asked.... "So what does it matter who won!?!?!? Is this basically because the admins took the power out of your hands?" No- It's because when one runs a contest, one has to abide by local and federal laws that govern said contest. A contest rules cannot be changed midstream. A contest cannot be held claiming prizes will be given out and then none are given out or another prize substituted. A contest cannot be started and the terms changed part way through. The Rules and terms of the contest as well as the prize itself and any tie breaking measures must be in place and adhered to. Otherwise it's considered bait and switch and could possibly be illegal. Changing the way the vote was done part way through could also be illegal. It's also because in the past AOY came with significant prizes and promotions of the "chosen" artist. "Because newsflash, just because Rosity is a community doesn't mean we get to decide EVERYTHING that happens here." Newsflash for you- but they still hve to follow the Laws governing contests sweepstakes and awards- both local and federal and right about now it is looking like they did not. "I just REALLY think that this is a long and ridiculous thread full of people upset." And you just made it that much longer. "To be honest, I am sure half of you dont even really KNOW why you are upset." Nice that you know what we don't. "Someone (Mosca) started screaming and the rest joined in. It happens all the time, Im just sick of seeing it." Then don't look.

Hey there Cimerone! never "let go" of loose ends, they are all you have to hold on to. Dear Jeweldragaon! the sycophants outnumber the detractors by a wide margin, you can't win them all. Synergyauto! "get a life" by all means, just don't expect others to get the same one as you. Mosca! deep down inside, I always guessed that I was Artist of Tomorrow, why!, only yesterday, I thought any day now it will come to pass. Thank you for your vote. Life is sweet.

Considering the final vote took place privately, among the admins, don't you think it makes sense that the prizes were also mentioned privately? To those in the running, or the winner. I don't know anything that states that a prize in a private contest has to be mentioned to the public at large. Spec

Cheryle, are you on the federal board of contests? Or the national contest committee? Unless you ARE on some sorta committee or board or other contest law enforcing thing, it doesnt matter to you. If ToxicAngel is concerned about his prizes or any of the other contestants, THEY will deal with it. It does NOT concern you. AT ALL. I realize Im making the thread longer, but would you people really quit bitching if I wasnt here? Not likely, you are gonna complain no matter what, so I figure I can add my two cents .. the logical 2 cents that is. Cheers, Gina

Cimerone "Cheryle, are you on the federal board of contests? Or the national contest committee? Unless you ARE on some sorta committee or board or other contest law enforcing thing, it doesnt matter to you. If ToxicAngel is concerned about his prizes or any of the other contestants, THEY will deal with it. It does NOT concern you. AT ALL" Yes it does- as long as i am am member of this site it concerns ALL members! How contests are run for members concerns all members. This isnt the first time a contest here has been tainted. Some of us are trying to prevent that from happening again. "the logical 2 cents that is" Your logic consists of 'suck it up guys and get over it" which is wrong. The bottom line is what happens in these contests affects ALL members. whether they are voting, whether they are in the running etc.

Hey, Cimerone--aren't you being kind of shrill with the customers?

2cents of logic! how much is that worth? more or less than 2cents of integrity? Exchange rates are so volatile these days.

That and $4 will get you a latte.

I am guessing that there won't be a free Amoretti thrown in at these prices.

Mosca arent you being a little shrill with everyone? Im stating my opinion just like everyone else has seen fit to do so. The bottom line is yet another topic has been blown completely out of proportion due to someones need for attention. Thats is the truth. Like it or not, admit it or not, thats all this is. Gina

"Hey, Cimerone--aren't you being kind of shrill with the customers?"

Merchants started out as members and have every right to voice their opinions here as much as a non-merchant. Are you suggesting that a merchant has no right to a voice? Because I see a pot-kettle-black comment here.

...... Kendra

"The bottom line is yet another topic has been blown completely out of proportion due to someones need for attention." We are so glad that you wanted to share this confession with us Gina. You will feel better for it, I am sure.

"The bottom line is yet another topic has been blown completely out of proportion due to someones need for attention." Nono the truth is- this has the appearance of some laws being broken... and this is not the first incident.

Brendan are you honestly telling me this wasnt blown out of proportion long before I arrived. People all screaming and yelling about some injustice that wasn't even done to them, and posssibly not even done. Gimme a break. Kendra, good point. Though I am beginning to think that certain people have their own set of rules for themselves and an entirely different set for everyone else. I think Mosca's whole point was that he wanted to point out that I was a merchant, in hopes that I would stop telling him hes wrong. Unfortunatly he doesnt know me. Cheers, Gina

Cheryle as much as I disagree with you and the way you are doing things in here, I understand your point and really actually admire your need for justice. But do you honestly have any proof that there has been an injustice? The only thing u know for certain is that first it was public voting, then it wasnt. So to assume that they also screwed up the rest of the contest is jumping to conclusions a bit. Cheers, Gina

" So to assume that they also screwed up the rest of the contest is jumping to conclusions a bit." It's not just abut this one- it's just about every one they run here. 4 major contests within approx a year, a year, and all 4 of them have had controversy around them. And those are the ones i remember. There may be more. The first one involved a tie and the members were not allowed to vote on the tie breaker. there was no information posted on what would be done to break the tie until AFTER the admins picked who they wanted,. Any contest usually has a predefined framework for dealing with these situations The 2nd one allegedly involved vote fixing by a member. The third involved an admin winning a contest where software was involved (AFAICR the admin refused the prize)- People who are holding the contest are not elegable to enter them The third Involved some one winning in the photography forum,. and they tried to substitute a lesser Value prize. Then there was AOY last year and this year. This place really has no business running contests. The governmental agencies involved will look into this- if they feel there is a need to continue with an investigation they will. If not- then they won't.

I have read the posts here and I don't understand what you are all carrying on about in regards to the voting (so Cheryle, you do not need to repeat any of your comments because that is not what I am referring to). I mean, I arrived at the front page of Renderosity one day, saw a link that said "vote for the Artist of the Year", clicked that link, saw that I could vote, casted it and that was that. If you did NOT vote then stop bitching. You have no right to bitch if you didn't vote. If you did vote, then still stop bitching and accept the end results. All your bitching just makes you look like petulant (sp??), spoilt children. The contest is over. Deal with it. I have had my say. I am not going to comment regardless of any replies back as I hate repeating myself. Have a great day Bella Morte

ok so it's 5- i count funny.shrug

" The contest is over. Deal with it." And the next contest is launched and there is controvery and so on and so on. There is something that is not being done right that makes this is a repeated pattern. One screw up yah i can accept that- i can even accept 2 (hey the first contest didn't work so well- maybe it's a fluke- let's try it again. The second contest yeilds the same results, well it seems there is a flaw in the system, time to examine it very closely and make some changes.) " mean, I arrived at the front page of Renderosity one day, saw a link that said "vote for the Artist of the Year", clicked that link, saw that I could vote, casted it..." And then the vote was removed and we were told oops... we don't want you to vote. It wouldn't be so bad if it was only a couple hours but 3 days??????

Dear Gina! Blown out of proportion? In many ways the whole issue is about proportion, proportional representation, that is. The basic initial thrust of this particular thread was to do with tying up loose ends about the actual figures involved. 38% of 24 votes is not quite the same as 38% of a possible 100.000+ votes. Why are you defending the rights of a Quango over the rights of the membership? What is your especial interest in our discomfort over the proceedings? Why do you feel moved to join the lemniscate of controversy on this issue and give it new vigour? This thread was content to proceed along it's designated path untill the quislings turned up for a lambaste. If you are here on your own behalf? try not to look to others to qualify your views. It is in plain evidence you have helped bring this pot to the boil again, the question is, have you anything of sustenance to add to it? BTW, I never scream and yell in any thread, just in case you think that I am doing so now?

All you're doing is acting like children. You won't change the results. You won't change the way it was done. You won't change the way the site is run. In the grand scheme of things, you're making a big deal out of nothing. I'm sorry, but this is how I see it: The poll was on the front page. It was up for what? Three days? They pulled it. Oops, mistake. Wasn't supposed to be there. Okay fine. I can deal with that. Some of you couldn't. Then there was an apology. Sorry it wasn't supposed to be there. Okay. I can deal with that. Some of you couldn't. You want to know what the prizes were. They're not telling you. I can deal with that. It's not my business. It's between the winner and the admins. Some of you can't accept that. But you don't seem to realize that all your voices are amounting to a little squeak. 'Squeak'. You're a few people in a large community. And to be honest, I'm sure the admins have far more important things to deal with than your cries of controversy and vote fixing and so on, and so on. It sucks, right? It's this great big terrible thing that they did, and scorned you greatly. Burned your little minds with a great injustice that you must see righted. You're not righting anything by continuing this. In all honesty, why don't a few calm people with concerns use that handy function called email, and correspond with some of the admins? It'll keep this all from escalating into the next world war, and might yield some better results than "WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND TO ME???" Spec

BellaMorte! some people question what is on the plate that has been handed to them, then there are those that just lick-spittle. Try not to respond!

Thank you for sharing specs "All you're doing is acting like children. You won't change the results. You won't change the way it was done. You won't change the way the site is run. In the grand scheme of things, you're making a big deal out of nothing. I'm sorry, but this is how I see it:" Nice to know that membership is so meaningless to you and that any contest involving members is so meaningless to you. If it's so meaningless to you why are you here? some are wroking to get things resolved. I see no such constructiveness in your post. "The poll was on the front page. It was up for what? Three days? They pulled it. Oops, mistake. Wasn't supposed to be there. Okay fine. I can deal with that. Some of you couldn't. "You want to know what the prizes were. They're not telling you. I can deal with that. It's not my business. It's between the winner and the admins. Some of you can't accept that. " Wrong- it's a contest that includes members ( all of them even tho only some are actually picked. Which means that anything awarded is to be made known to all membership Then there was an apology. Sorry it wasn't supposed to be there. Okay. I can deal with that. Some of you couldn't." What point are you trying to make with these statements? "But you don't seem to realize that all your voices are amounting to a little squeak. 'Squeak'. You're a few people in a large community. And to be honest, I'm sure the admins have far more important things to deal with than your cries of controversy and vote fixing and so on, and so on." What is more important than taking care of the membership that helps this site survive prosper and grow? "It sucks, right? It's this great big terrible thing that they did, and scorned you greatly. Burned your little minds with a great injustice that you must see righted. You're not righting anything by continuing this. In all honesty, why don't a few calm people with concerns use that handy function called email, and correspond with some of the admins? It'll keep this all from escalating into the next world war, and might yield some better results than "WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND TO ME???"" nice to see what a high value you place on the members.

oh please. stfu. everyone. seriously. janne deserved artist of the year, he won it, now stop cheapening his victory with these damned conspiracy theories - im getting sick of them. gevidal is a great artist, and so are all of the others who were in the running. they are all winners - theyve each achieved artist of the month, which is an honor itself. they cant all win AOY... but why do i get the feeling that no matter who won, there would be people bitching, and this same thread would have popped up? grow the fuck up, and go congratulate janne for his win, hes a great guy and i pray he doesnt see this thread because it would upset him quite a bit.

Well, y'know, Spec, if it's all none of our business, why bother having the thing in the first place? Why even mention it at all? Why not just send Toxic a PM that says, "Hey, we were having a few beers one afternoon and decided you should be AOY. Congrats!" Sounds like the perfect solution.

Cheryle, Thank you for letting me know about this information. I didn't know they had pulled the public votes. I am not at Renderosity all day every day and all pages. My comment was based on the comments above mine.

Seriously! BlackHearted, janne is Administrations Artist of the year. If you include me in your command to "grow the fuck up"? ( which sounds like a raised voice to me) then you negate any attempt at reason in your comment ( that's if you meant to be reasonable?). Cheers to you!

I didn't say it wasn't at one point everyone's business. Believe it or not, I was a little miffed when they pulled the vote as well. I am saying that everyone who is -still- upset is making it everyone elses business continuously. In thread after thread after thread. Honestly, do you think you're making it right by beating said dead horse? It might make you feel a bit better about it afterwards, but come on. Have you changed the voting results? Has this continued, repetative thread changed anything? I think the only thing it's changed is the supposed unity of the community, which is a damn shame. Regardless what you may think of me or my comments, I'm a member here too. And I have to support what Regina and Blackhearted said. In a lot of words, or just a few. Get over it. It's over and done with.

spectre. No

"I think the only thing it's changed is the supposed unity of the community" If the Community is a supposed unity thing in your mind SpectreOfDesire, then it supposedly ain't unified, is it? Maybe it's a SpectreOfCommunity?

i, for one, am glad that they pulled the public votes. weve all seen firsthand what a determined person can do to swing the public vote. one of the AOMs of 2002 did it, by spamming his newsgroup and having those people create rosity accounts for the sole purpose of voting him AOM. then he did it for his friend. then he laughed about it, and said self-promotion was a valid tactic. now im not happy that the members cannot vote for things such as this, in a utopian renderosity, all the contests, hot20s AOM/AOY and awards would work wonderfully, where everyone in the community would take the time to pick whom they thought was the best candidate and EVERY SINGLE MEMBER would place their vote. but thats not going to happen. not in my lifetime, and not in yours. with the old system, the most determined person would win, since they would spam for the most people to vote for them and work the hardest on their little publicity campaign. i, for one, am glad that there is no more opportunity for that - for people to manipulate the AOM and AOY like that, and you should be glad too - god knows what could have happened if things HADNT of changed. so no, its not the utopian renderosity. but its far better than the alternative, so i support it fully until someone proposes a better idea. i already did - script it so that when everyone logs in during something like AOM or AOY voting, they get a dialog at the top of their screen, like an IM, that has the AOM or AOY poll, and kindof 'force' them to vote that way. then all of the 100k or so rosity members would vote, and it would be impossible to sway such a large number of voters. its not that hard to do, and i think it would be the fairest solution. cheers, -gabriel

I defer to your knowledge of things scriptable, Blackhearted. I had engaged in the thread that tried t give serious thought to the problem, only to see the thread completely ignored by the administration until after the event, when they had foisted their agenda on the community. There are many voices in this thread that were not able to find the time to contribute to the problem solving thread but have saved their energies for weightier matters like shooting out their lips here. Thankfully, we can choose when and in which forums we can speak our minds.

I realize this might be steering away from the original point of this thread.. whatever that point might be, because I certainly can't see it, personally. But I have a question. Take it at face value. First off, let me lay this on the line: I have not flamed anyone. Nor have I singled anyone out. I have not been sitting here, bitching and moaning about how things should have been, and what happened. I'm stating my opinion in this public forum, just like everyone is entitled to. It's my digital voice, as it is all of yours. And I deserve that much. To have my opinions as I see fit to post them. In a way that hopefully offends no one. Because my original intent is not to offend anyone. If, however, I do, then I apologize. That is my responsibility and my right to do so, because this is a community that I'm a member of, even if I'm not so outspoken or well known. However, I ask this two-part question. Is it because I'm going against the grain that as of yet, the responses I've gotten have been trite or sarcastic - That because I don't agree with the majority that's posting to this thread that I must be singled out in some small form or fashion and be treated with less respect than I've given? Or is it because I -am- fairly unknown. I rarely speak up. I do an image every so often because I enjoy putting up the works my wife and I do. If I were one of the more renowned artists of this site, would anything I say be responded to with as much sarcasm, and given as big a lack of respect? It's a shame, because I think if my name were bigger here, and I posted the same things, I wouldn't be treated with the same lack of respect. Respect that I have only tried to give the rest. So keep on with your bitching and moaning about the injustice. And keep on making your trite and sarcastic remarks. They don't bite any deeper than anything else that's said. I've heard far, far worse. And I hope they make you feel better. I honestly do. Have a lovely evening. :) Spec

"I realize this might be steering away from the original point of this thread.. whatever that point might be, because I certainly can't see it, personally." Can't argue with that! 62. Re: Dear tammymc 2 by SpectreOfDesire on 1/6/03 16:44 "All you're doing is acting like children. You won't change the results. You won't change the way it was done. You won't change the way the site is run. In the grand scheme of things, you're making a big deal out of nothing. I'm sorry, but this is how I see it: The poll was on the front page. It was up for what? Three days? They pulled it. Oops, mistake. Wasn't supposed to be there. Okay fine. I can deal with that. Some of you couldn't. Then there was an apology. Sorry it wasn't supposed to be there. Okay. I can deal with that. Some of you couldn't. You want to know what the prizes were. They're not telling you. I can deal with that. It's not my business. It's between the winner and the admins. Some of you can't accept that. But you don't seem to realize that all your voices are amounting to a little squeak. 'Squeak'. You're a few people in a large community. And to be honest, I'm sure the admins have far more important things to deal with than your cries of controversy and vote fixing and so on, and so on. It sucks, right? It's this great big terrible thing that they did, and scorned you greatly. Burned your little minds with a great injustice that you must see righted. You're not righting anything by continuing this. In all honesty, why don't a few calm people with concerns use that handy function called email, and correspond with some of the admins? It'll keep this all from escalating into the next world war, and might yield some better results than "WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND TO ME???" Spec " If your original intent was not to offend anyone? you have a singular way of showing it. Squeak! squeak! Squeak! squeak!

"However, I ask this two-part question. Is it because I'm going against the grain that as of yet, the responses I've gotten have been trite or sarcastic - That because I don't agree with the majority that's posting to this thread that I must be singled out in some small form or fashion and be treated with less respect than I've given? Or is it because I -am- fairly unknown." Neither. I am not a "known" entity around here either. Post 62 of yours pretty much sums up why you are getting the reaction you are.

oops cross posted with you Brendan

Did you squeak Cheryle? Show some respect!

No. Post 62 shows my opinion on the whole where I'm not singling anyone out. ;) I think you're reading more into what's actually there. Nor did I say my voice was any bigger. Squeak squeak. And I still won't single anyone out. That's the big difference. :) Have a lovely evening. Spec

That's so fine a distinction one can't see the join! at least, that's my opinion, on the whole. With all due respect.

don't make me squeak some more! i have nothing but sqeak time avail until the hockey game is over...

This thread had pretty much burnt out, like, a day and a half ago. Then suddenly the goon squad arrives with its gas can. Never ceases to amaze me. If you really want the AOY thing to die down, the absolute wrong thing to do is to jump in and start telling people what to do.

"one of the AOMs of 2002 did it, by spamming his newsgroup and having those people create rosity accounts for the sole purpose of voting him AOM. then he did it for his friend. then he laughed about it, and said self-promotion was a valid tactic." I understand the feeling that such tactics aren't in the spirit of things, but there certainly isn't/wasn't any rule against what Legume did, which was essentially to ask his friends to vote for him. And if, as everyone here keeps insisting, R'osity is about business first and art second, how can you say self-promotion is wrong? Isn't that what business people do?

Spectre et al: it's simple. It's called accountability. Rsity started it one way, apparently didn't like the way it was going, and changed the rules on everyone, with apparently no accountability to anyone. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm getting really tired of people just trotting out the lame "well, sorry" excuse and hoping I accept it at face value. I don't accept it from anyone anymore, period. The admins screwed up, and you seem to prefer letting them get away with it, when this is the now-fourth-possibly-fifth time in a row. All of a sudden, information has to be dragged out of them kicking and screaming, when instead this thing should be made as transparent as possible. You say your newbie status doesn't give you the same respect as anyone else? Bull. It's a lot of us getting sick and tired of people anywhere -- not just Rsity's admin, but everywhere -- screwing up and walking away from the mess they've made. Yeah, Tammy profered up an apology. Big whoop. That's a starting point and nothing more. For all the questions that remained, she and the rest of the admins should have been doing a helluva lot more than just shutting down all communication about this fiasco. And sorry but "it's a free site and it's their site and they can do what they like" is likewise a bunch of BS. The moment that poll appeared on the front page -- error or not -- Rsity came under the same rules and laws as everyone else in this country, and those rules should be followed to the letter, not when it's convenient to them to do so. Maybe it doesn't seem like a big deal to you or a few others, but I'm getting real tired of people skipping out on responsibility. Now, if you'd like to address that particular point, feel free. But you better it damn persuasive.

In response to your post, atthisstage: And I don't care to be persuasive. I'm not trying to sway an audience. But don't you think that they covered all their bases? Just say for a moment that Rosity -has- been contacted by law abiding officials. Being that Renderosity is a privately owned company, all of that would be handled privately. And then, even when it was over, they don't owe anyone anything regarding what happened. It's between them and those that contacted them. If they have their facts straight, which they may or may not have, because I don't know, then who's to say that it hasn't already been handled, and they just haven't chosen to respond to any of this. It's perfectly plausible to me. Regardless, I'm not defending Renderosity. I'm defending my personal opinion on the matter as it stands. And judging by the lack of response from admins to the continued threads, it's a very possible end to it. Sure, it sucks that no one will know. But no matter how many times anyone says it is our concern, it's not. Not unless the site gets shut down. And I'm not doubting you, but I'd like for these laws and rules to be pointed out from an actual source. One that might be available to me so I can give them a glance. It'd be much appreciated.

they are posted in the threads below

You know.. All the artists (Legume included) did fantastic art and are fantastic artists in of themselves. They represent all of us. You want to show your appreciation of them. Comment on their art. buy a print if they have one available. The AOM, AOY, AOD or whatever doesn't matter. Rosity is a little fish in the art world. their contest doesn't bring any glory or look really good on your portfolio.. "Whatsosity?" Toxicangel does great art, Legume does as well. Rosity can't change that no matter who they choose as AOM or AOY.

Stormagerage best comment so far. Would you like a cup of tea? :)

"Kendra, good point. Though I am beginning to think that certain people have their own set of rules for themselves and an entirely different set for everyone else."

You noticed that too? :)

"I think Mosca's whole point was that he wanted to point out that I was a merchant, in hopes that I would stop telling him hes wrong. Unfortunatly he doesnt know me."

As a new merchant, I once told someone I won't do the clone thing just to voice my opinion to keep my "merchant" account squeaky clean. No merchant should be told to shut up because they might lose sales. Especially from a member. That's akin to blackmail.

...... Kendra

blackmail EEK!

Spectre - Posts 114 and 107 of "where is AOY poll thread and Post 206 of Dear tammy

"The AOM, AOY, AOD or whatever doesn't matter. Rosity is a little fish in the art world. their contest doesn't bring any glory or look really good on your portfolio.." Well that's part of it but not all of it- in the past they have offered a week hotel stay at siggraph, free entrance into siggraph and promoted the AOY. They also are now branching into a magazine who's distribution area is growing. They are trying to become bigger, more professional. Which is why they need to address these issues. For their own sake as well as for the sake of the members.

ask yourself these questions.. If your crew hadn't created so many freaking fake accounts to rig the hot 20, affect the nominating of the AOMs and VOTE for the AOMs, would the thought of discrimination have ever entered your mind when the poll was pulled? What's more if you hadn't been so brilliant(or should I say, "Sub-genius") as to pull the same stunt twice in a row, would the thought of discrimination have ever entered your mind when the poll was pulled? If you guys hadn't been bitching and stiring up conspiracy theories every other day in the C&D forum and eventually gotten it removed from the site alltogether, would the thought of discrimination have ever entered your mind when the poll was pulled? In short, if it hadn't been for all the bullsh*t, would you ever have had cause to believe you were being discrminated against? Regardless of how he was selected, the person who has the title of AOY has it because he deserves it. It's as simple as that...questioning the voting, and continuing to bitch about discrimination charges at this stage only cheapens that for him which is very selfish and inconsiderate on your part. Do you realize this is the second time this sort of thing has happened to him? This same sort of crap happened when the admins selected his design for the renderosity site design a long time ago...I think it's really sad that even now you can't show a shread of decency... Sorcha

I would like to say that what happen with the poll was wrong. I would also like to say that in the heat of anger and frustration that we have to remember that there are real people here that we deal with every day. Sometimes we tend to forget that these people are real and have real feelings. Some words can have long lasting effects without us even knowing it. The net seems to put us in another world and makes the people seem a little less real. Please remember the artists that we are all talking about are the ones that are hurting from this. Both the winner and the losers. I am asking that you please think of them and remember they didnt ask for this. It was the people that voted for them.

Lynde- who is your post directed to? I am part of no crew I belong to no class of sub-genius I have protested previous inequities of contests past

WEll to all who have stated this is "overblown, childish, etc. I have this to say. I DID vote, I voted for AOM most times, I had boycotted the vote for a while because I was upset over the way nominations were to be made by committee instead of the membership,However I did go back to voting later on. I hear now that the "committee" system was privately scraped and the nominations are made by a different system .Ive never got a good answer on why the change was made or what the new system is. The point is I DID take the time to look through the galleries and place a vote. Then that vote was taken away in the MIDDLE of a contest.I think I have every right to be pissed at that. You all are right about one thing though, all of this wont change a thing. Admin has made a decision and we all know very well that our opinions arent listened to by them. Membership is good for one thing in their eyes and thats cash. Period. I do not understand why there is an AOM poll on the front page. Our vote isnt wanted right? I certainly wont be voting from now on, my vote or any members vote for that matter isnt wanted or appreciated.

"If your crew hadn't created so many freaking fake accounts to rig the hot 20, affect the nominating of the AOMs and ...." blah blah blah... What some people dont seem to realize, is that Legume has many fans that are NOT members of his newsgroups and voted him AOM AOY pink ponies and what-have-you. Is that so hard to believe? Who do you think is bitching in all these threads anyway? Renderosity members thats who.

Lynde- who is your post directed to? The Sub-geniuses and all who did what I spoke of above..if you know these conditions do not apply to you then take comfort in the fact that the statement wasn't directed at you..:) Is that so hard to believe? Nope..:) I even liked his stuff until one point...my comments are for those that have participated in those activities alone...:) Sorcha

Gina... Admin? Hell, I did more than that, I ran Renderosity. So I guess I am qualified to offer an opinion then huh? I am so glad that it is in such wonderful hands now. :o) Jack

"As a new merchant, I once told someone I won't do the clone thing just to voice my opinion to keep my "merchant" account squeaky clean. No merchant should be told to shut up because they might lose sales. Especially from a member. That's akin to blackmail."-Kendra I whole heartedly agree with you. Which is why I dont care. I was not flaming anyone or being "shrill" as Mosca put it. I was being honest. Ravnheart is also 100% right. There are real people behind these screen names...I guess everyone loses sight of that. So they just go on bashing like the people they are going on about have no feelings and are above being hurt. Personally, I have noticed a lovely trend of certain people who like to make everything their business. I call them the "Everything Police". Problem with the "Everything Police" is that they have let the fictional power go to their head and will not be told that maybe just maybe something isn't really concerning them, or that it is none of their business. As to why people KEEP responding...myself included. Think of it as a car accident or a train wreck..it's morbid curiousty. Everyone wants to see the next big catastrophe. Cheers Gina

Jack Im sorry, I missed you in my last post. I don't know you, I wasnt here when you ran it and geez sorry I missed that. No modesty on your part is there. As for your previous "knob" comments...maybe your upset that yours wasnt the knob being polished. I mean seriously, is everyone under the impression that ANYONE that wins a contest here is "on the take". Thats just silly talk. Gina

"just maybe something isn't really concerning them, or that it is none of their business. " A vote is put up to vote for a member by other members is the business of the members. It's also the members business to know what said results and decisions affecting those members are.

Cheryle my point there was (and forgive me if it wasn't clear) that were any of you up for AOY? If not then this doesn't really concern the other how ever many that WERENT in the running. Blackhearted made a point, a good one. Things this big are best left to the admin, less chance of it being tainted. It was an honest mistake that it was put up for public voting. Mistakes get made. As for whom ever asked what I have to gain by sticking up for the admins ... nothing. And I wasnt. It was truth, not defense. So please dont imply things that you have no founded truth in. Thanks and appreciated :) Cheers Gina

" that were any of you up for AOY?" No but i voted for AOY. And now there is a vote up for AOM- so- if none of this concerns us as members then why do they keep putting these things up as contests and votes? You've read at least this thread- not sure if you waded thru the previous ones, but you have read enough to know that is isn't just this one. If there is any it's no one's business here- to me from seeing what is going on here- i would have to say this place has no business running contest- they just can't get it right.

Gina, Can't speak for everyone here, but I don't think the big concern is that contest winners are "on the take". Any more than I think asking your friends to vote for you is "rigging" a contest. However, there have been more than enough questionable circumstances surrounding too many contests here not to raise big red flags. It may be as simple as incompetence, but it is a serious problem and needs to be addressed to make things fair for ALL the members. If people just keep quiet about it, it never will be. rosity's incompetence on this particular one took away the ability of all the AOM's to consider this a fair and untainted award. Any one of the AOM's deserved to win AOY. But because of the circumstances surrounding this award now, nobody will ever know if Toxic Angel won because he was considered the best artist of the lot or because he was considered by the administration to be the most politically correct. That's a shame. And I am not trying to take away from Toxic Angel's talent one bit here. He and all the rest are all very talented and choosing one is subjective at best. Too bad the whole thing is totally FUBAR.

Well said Diane!

Longest, S thanks dont mind if I do. ``Well that's part of it but not all of it- in the past they have offered a week hotel stay at siggraph, free entrance into siggraph and promoted the AOY. They also are now branching into a magazine who's distribution area is growing. They are trying to become bigger, more professional. Which is why they need to address these issues. For their own sake as well as for the sake of the members.`` Rosity wont be at that level until they can become professional and right now that is doubtful. Right now they are a store. With forums. That is their focus. If they want to be a showcase for talent then they have to restructure and reorginize and concentrate on the end product not the in between. Until they do that they cannot become a means to affect the 3d World. they will simply be a massive forum website with bickering and sitewars.

"so I figure I can add my two cents .. the logical 2 cents that is." Sure thing. When you scrape up two logical cents, toss em into the pot. ;] shrug I'm not a part of any "crew". While I have been a subgenius, hey - I voted for HobbyHopper. I like Doc, but I do as I please... and he tends to respect that. As far as part of the crowd.... Mosca and I don't particularly like each other, I don't think. He'll probably be the first to say that he considers me an arrogant prick sometimes. Wah. We don't have to be best buds for me to recognise when he is right on something and to say that I agree with him. He doesn't have to like me to agree with me on occassion, as he's done in the past. He's right on this one. Maybe not in all particulars, but in that the way it was handled screwed all of the artists involved, that he's correct on. I kind of like Cheryle, but she and I have dissagreed on things on occassion. Wah. No biggie. Like/dislike doesn't have a damned thing to do with it - we both tend to speak our minds wether it's liked or not. I agree with her views on this one also: It is our business, as members. If a trend of contests always being run for foul continues, then no contest on this site will ever be trustworthy. It may be too late for that as it is. And before anyone gets into an uproar and lumps me into the "but you're one of them, of course you agree!" category... I've backed the admins here before also when I though they were right on something too. And I've done it when it didn't make me real freaking popular, and when it put me toe to toe with Legume or Kammerer or other people. Tammy, Tim, ClintH, JeffH and a few others will remember those times also. ;] shrug again This isn't right, this isn't working. And it doesn't matter a flying rats ass that Legume got screwed - everyone in that contest got the shaft, even the winner(s). Legume possibly got shafted out of a win by the sudden change in rules in midstream - NOT a given, the voting was close, and Toxic probably would have won on merits. Toxic got his winning tarnished through NO fault of his own. Period. Through no fault of his own. And anyone winning would have had it tarnished by that, no matter who. Even if Legume had won, there'd be people in here now questioning if the admins fixed it FOR him, not again him. And as long as this continues, every contest is going to have some taint, no matter who wins it. It's been blown up in proportion, not out of it, whoever made that observation. "grow the fuck up, and go congratulate janne for his win, hes a great guy and i pray he doesnt see this thread because it would upset him quite a bit. " And ditto again on the shrug Gabriel. I like Toxic. Janne is a pretty nice guy, and one hell of an artist. He is one hell of a lot more talented than I am. Or than you are, for that matter. ;] But Janne's a big boy. If he runs across this thread, he runs across it. Wah. If it makes him feel bad, I'll feel bad. But we'll both get over it. I do not believe that he can get to that level of talent without having a pretty good sense of his own abilities. I doubt seriously that reading through this would crush his abilities or faith in them any more than it would mine or yours, Gabriel. You get that kind of talented by being at least a bit sure of yourself - don't cheapen Janne by implying he's too fragile to deal with this. ;] "- im getting sick of them." And we care what you're sick of because... ??? ;] "It's a shame, because I think if my name were bigger here, and I posted the same things, I wouldn't be treated with the same lack of respect." Nah Spectre. Blackhearted is a "big name", and it don't make him immune. Big name, little name, that's got nuffin to do with it. Sorry Gabe. Wanted to make a point to Spectre and used you to do it. Nuthin personal, old bean. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Honestly Ironbear I agreed with almost everything you said...I have been trying to say all along that I didn't like the way the poll was handled but I know that my other opinions have caused people to believe that I felt otherwise. I'll admit that I don't really care for Legume's work, actually to be completely specific, there was one piece of art he did that absolutely pissed me off and that changed my whole perspective on all of it..until that point I didn't really care. You can make the arguement that he has the right to make whatever he wants(which I agree with, BTW) but if he reserves that right then I equally have the right to feel offended by it if it offends me. You can also argue that the ability to really piss someone off with his work makes him a better artist and perhaps more deserving of the title which in some respects is probably true but that still doesn't change anything from where I am. After that image and the entire sequence of events that followed in the community I started looking for the negative and I don't think there is really anything that can change my mind about it, even now, although I did try to force myself to look at his work with a more open mind a few times(BTW, the pinup series looked really sad, and i don't mean the technique of it, they just all gave me the impression that he was groveling for sympathy somehow and always made me feel sorry for him every time I looked at one of them). But cheating is wrong and you cannot honestly say that Legume and the AOM following Legume didn't get their titles without some degree of cheating and I'm not talking about "self-promotion" either. If you know you weren't part of it, then you know my comments weren't directed at you. But if someone does cheat in any way to earn the artist of the month title, they will not get any sympathy from me if they start saying they were discriminated against by the admins in the final vote....the truth is, if they had to cheat on even the most minor level, then they do not deserve to be at that point anyway. Anyway, now my biggest objection at this point has been that people are still questioning the decision even after the winner was announced...that is just simply not fair to the person who got that award, even if it had been another artist(even Legume) I would still feel the same way about this.. Sorcha

Hey, Doc pisses me off on occassion also. ;] That's the intent. A lot of people seem to operate under the misapprehension that the imagery is Legume's work - it's not. Legume's Art is to fuck with people's heads, as we called it when I was growing up. That's a crude way of putting it, but it's descriptive. If I don't care to be pissed off, I disconnect the buttons. ;] And like him, hate his guts, don't care either way, it's hard to deny that he is damned good at it. The art is to shake up people's world view, jolt someone's way of looking at things, reach inside their heads and find the buttons and get a reaction. Just as the "art" of a bard is to use words to jolt a reaction, or craft an image with words and emotion. That takes a degree of empathy with the viewer that's frightening. You have to be able to figure out what you're trying to evoke, and crawl inside someone's head to make it wok. Do I consider it an art form? Yup. Do I consider it an art form that the AOM/AOY on a graphic arts site is designed to highlight... ? Ummm... I'm dubious, so I voted on someone whose technical graphics skills I like and appreciate. If it were a different contest where the focus was purely the ability to evoke a reaction by whatever medium - I might have voted the other way. Who knows? It wasn't and I didn't. *********************************** What I said wasn't aimed at you particularly either, Lynne. There's been a lot of people who've voiced the same message, along with "Oh suck it up and quit bitching", and "It's the way it is, deal with it", and others. That part was kind of a thread wide sentance. A "to whom it may concern", not person specific. Ah well. It's not the one with your name on it ya gotta watch out for - it's the one addresssed to to whom it may concern, I guess. ;] ****************************** I can't speak for anyone else. I'm not questioning the decision. I'm questioning the way that it was reached, and the circumstances surrounding it. And to be real honest, I have a little of Legume in me - I'm having a bit of fun just watching the fuss. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

you're right, it is art...and I don't disagree with that at all...but if that is the way you create you must be willing to deal with the reactions you evoke, even if sometimes they are a little stronger or not quite what you had intended...that's all...;) The one image in question pissed me off and for a time I did not look at his artwork after that, but at the time I clicked on that particular image in the gallery I was not expecting to be pissed off. I am not an advocate of censorship at all but if you make it a point to evoke strong reactions, be prepared for whatever they may be. In some cases, it may be to hate you or worse, to want to hurt you, or even in such a case as mine to be determined to never support anything you do... Anyway, I don't really want to say anything more about that, but I never agreed with having the poll taken down and right now I just think it's in poor taste to bring any more doubt upon the decision that was made(regardless of who was chosen)...but I guess everyone has a right to debate the circumstances for as long as they want..;) Sorcha

No... I can agree that it does become an excercise in futility at a certain point. ;] Heh heh. I do disagree on the nature of the conspiracy though: Could be the admins decided that there hadn't been a major controversy in awhile and interest was dropping off, so they created one. Controversy creates forum activity, gets people talking, and as the people likening it to a train wreck noted, train wrecks are fascinating, so it draws in crowds... and crowds eventually head to the concession stands as any good carney knows. And by damn it distracts people from picking on poor CuriousLabs. Hey - it's as plausible a conspiracy as any. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

"And by damn it distracts people from picking on poor CuriousLabs." AHA! i had forgotten about that! there yah go! it's working!!! ;D

"And by damn it distracts people from picking on poor CuriousLabs."

AHA! i had forgotten about that! there yah go! it's working!!!
;D

Not really, I picked on CuriousLabs just an hour ago.

Ratz. That blows pure hell out of a perfectly good theory. Thanks Yuri. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Nothing wrong with the theory, 'bear. Maybe it just wasn't competently put into practice... ;-)

Attached Link: http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=Xns92EB6B88B1F56154563%40216.166.71.239

well this is an interesting thread, it was posted in another forum. I followed it and read it. I think it really points out the need to revamp the contest system. Or not have them at all because there is no way to prevent this from happening? *shrug* either way at this point, whatever happens, happens.

did you know that if you start at the top of this thread, and use a mouse scroller to go all the way down without stopping, the length of this thread coupled with the blurring and flashing of stuff flipping right by can possibly cause seizures in adolescent hermaphrodite monkies that were brought to conception through a surrogate Siamese Cat, providing of course said adolescent hermaphrodite monkie that were brought to conception through a surrogate Siamese Cats was seated next to you? it's true.

so I take it you have one? :D Sorcha

i think we should vote for "adolescent hermaphrodite monkies that were brought to conception through a surrogate Siamese Cat, providing of course said adolescent hermaphrodite monkie that were brought to conception through a surrogate Siamese Cats was seated next to you" for next months AOM just a thought or at least a new conspiracy ;D /e hides

"Mosca and I don't particularly like each other, I don't think. He'll probably be the first to say that he considers me an arrogant prick sometimes." And I imagine you figure I'm an obnoxious pain-in-the-ass. It's the nature of the internet, unfortunately--if you want to make a point it's hard to do it quietly. I have a feeling that, in person, with normal social rules in force and a bottle of Booker's on the table, we'd probably get along just fine.

More than likely.... or a bottle of Bookers for you and a big pot of strong coffee for me. ;] shrug Point was that wether we like or dislike each other, it doesn't really matter on either of us being able to recognise when the other has a valid point of view. Or when the other has a valid gripe. On some things like this, Like/Dislike, Friends/Not Friends, Bigname/Littlename, should be irrelevant to the discussion. Just like my being friends with Legume doesn't mean that I'll agree with everything he syas, or that he'd expect me to, eh? shrug I wouldn't hold that against you. Most of my real life friends can be obnoxiuos, opinionated pains in the ass. It makes them fun to talk to.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Well hell. God didn't intend for a man to drink Booker's alone.

Sorry. ;] I quit drinking in 1983. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Good for you. I started in 1974.

LOL

I started in 1974 also. And drank straight through to 83. MAN! Talk about a hangover! ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

well that's just for this one- there were others that were tainted in other ways - which brings us ( i think) back full circle to: Is there a way of this place running contests fairly. If so how and lets see if these suggestions in the other thread can be implimented. If not then maybe it's time to do away with contest- which would be a shame cause people like contests. It's also nice to see an artist elevated, but perhaps at this time it should be changed to "Renderosity's Administrative Choice Artist of the year"- And to me there is nothing wrong with that- after all, some businesses do have employee of the month, year etc etc so that would alleviate any laws being broken as far as contests go...the members would not get a choice but hey we don't have a choice now as it is. What would really be nice is some input from admin on this. All this pretty much covers this particular contest but what about the others that have been handled badly, not from the membership side but the admin side? ( photo contest swapping prize incident, emoticon incident, etc)

I just wanted to clarify so that it would not become an issue just about this years AOY only and the rest of the concerns would get lost in the shuffle. And yep i agree with your post totally.

"I would just as soon see the member vote discontinued and placed into the hands of a panel of judges." They had that at one point Illusions - The AOM Committee. And it seemed to be working pretty nicely. There's a statement in here [in one of these threads] from Tammy that "it was discontinued because it wasn't working", but no real clear explanation of why or how it wasn't working. Not that I saw, at least. Of course, you'll get objections on one count or another to an appointed panel of artists and members making the choices, but I think it's easy to see that there's nothing that can be suggested that won't have some objections. Still, it's practical and feasible. Only thing that might not make it feasible is if it were to turn out that there aren't enough members who really give a damn about AOM/AOY and other contests willing to serve on such a committee, in which case it might as well be adjudicated by the admins.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

there would also have to be a way for the images to be uploaded anonymously- with no artist name on it- to prevent cries of " Admin pet" from surfacing.

shrug Having watched this for over two years now on every contest, the Hot20, and whatever, Cheryle... I think we're/they're going to get some kind of argument over whoever wins, no matter what methods are used. I'm not even going to quibble with the people that have been saying that all along. ;] Anonymous would help on contests, like the magazine covers, card contests, various software contests... but AOM is selected [currently] based on gallery examples. I don't see a way for anonimity of the artist to apply there. Hell... if the admin can't be trusted to administer contest rules fairly, and members can't refrain from abusing guidelines, might be better to just eliminate AOM/AOY entirely. I'll agree with Illusons this far, that there's been abuse of the system on both ends here.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Heh Heh. He said "quibble" Heh heh

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

Quibbles. Aren't they those little furry round things that go "greeeep!" from STarTrek the Origional Series? ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Yes,and they eventually evolved into what is now known as "Mr.Fluffers" 8 )~ Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

Eeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!! "Stop quibbling dear, you'll go blind. And wash your hands afterwards." "Gee mom! How about if I just quibble til I'm nearsighted?" That's the problem with getting me into a discussion, Hawk - no matter how good an argument I make, I'm congenitally incapable o taking it seriously, so I'm easily derailed into inanities by people like you. Shame on you! ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Yeah. Or even without an award. There's nothing so innocuous that it can't cause a fuss. Heck, Poppi is stil convinced that Russel Cook conspired to keep her specifically out of the Hot20. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

"Cheryle, are you on the federal board of contests? Or the national contest committee? Unless you ARE on some sorta committee or board or other contest law enforcing thing, it doesnt matter to you." Thanks for this gem. I guess since I'm not part of an anti-rape task force or a counter-terrorism unit, those thing don't matter to me. Thanks for making my life a whole lot simpler, dipshit.

At least he didn't say "Dufflebag".

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Dufflebag.

"Only thing that might not make it feasible is if it were to turn out that there aren't enough members who really give a damn about AOM/AOY and other contests willing to serve on such a committee, in which case it might as well be adjudicated by the admins." Hell, there really aren't enough members interested in VOTING in these things. That's why Legume could "abuse" the system the way he did. Anyone ever pay attention to exactly how many votes the images in the hot 20 get? Pitifully few. Truly, if that few people are interested in the Hot 20, AOM and AOY, why even have them?

and to go off on another totally seemingly unrelated but could be related tangent.... Hey! In the forums and the galleries, i often hear (read) of the mods of said forums saying they do not have time to look at each picture or get to the galleries or to moniter the boards constantly. So. If that's the case, then AOM//AOY isn't really AOM//AOY because they did not look at each individual artists gallery? Why do kamakazi pilots wear crash helmets?

Cheryle, thats probably why they did away with the Panel system for AOM selections. Too much work looking at all the galeries. It seems that since Rosity cant run a contest without a cluster fuck, and some members are taking advantage of contest rules, having contests here is an exercise in futility. Tribles Tribles Tribles, they follow you everywhere!