Ok, enough. I've gotten 3 IMs in 2 weeks for "view and vote for my image for the Hot 20". While I'm leaving the names of the posters out, I've let them know in no uncertain terms to cease the practice. If I wanted to vote for your damn image I'd have done so. Frankly they sucked. Standard vacant look, soft focus crap, open breasts, stupid armor. So Friggin what!? Make something that everyone else INS'T making and I might vote for it, until then, piss off. MM

Man, candor and honesty are so rare around here. Say it, brother!

I haven't received any of those messages requesting votes but I have heard through the grapevine that it does happen, and I believe I've seen several long thread regarding the Hot 20 being a big joke now because of the trolling. From my POV, I'd feel a bit weird and embarrassed to ask someone to vote for one of my images. I figure that if people view one of my images and feel it's above and beyond a certain level or whatever, they'll vote for it ... if they don't, they won't, no biggie ... landing in the Hot 20 doesn't give you any special powers as far as I can tell.

You mean no xray vision? No ability to fly? No special suit? Sigh. lol Let it be known that if I get any I.M.'s like that I will let the moderators know, that is so tacky. All it really shows is that they themselves don't think their stuff is good enough to hold up on it's own. Very sad. Marque

Oh.. well isnt this wonderful. Another candidate for the I started a shit-throwing flame thread at Rosity award. Thats always something to brag about to the folks back home.

LOL bshafer, there's NEVER a lack of candidates for that award around here. :) Soft focus, vacant eyes, bare breasts, and armor doesn't automatically make an image suck by the way, just as originality doesn't automatically make an image great. The important thing is that we make whatever we want and enjoy doing it. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Possible suggestions: 1. A voter for the Poser Hot 20 must have a gallery, rather than just being a member. That way, those that are not "artists" so to speak, can't vote. 2. On the instant messaging, install a link to forward the "spam" to the moderators or powers that be. ....ducking for cover, lol.

Sorry Minuteman, if you would IM me the name of the person who spamed you I would be very happy to deal with that matter. ladynimue

" A voter for the Poser Hot 20 must have a gallery, rather than just being a member. That way, those that are not "artists" so to speak, can't vote." That's like saying since I dont play a piano,I cant decide what piano music I like or don't like. Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

I happen to agree in most cases with you Tom, however, I've always considered the Poser Hot20 to be a vote from my peers, rather than just a popularity vote which is what it has become. For instance...last night I was watching Star Search. It gave an opportunity for the viewing audience to participate by logging on to their website and voting. Well, I logged on to find out that only people in the eastern and central time zones could vote because of the time delay telecast for the mountain and pacific zones (I live in the pacific zone). Was that fair that only a portion of the country could make their opinion known? Not particulary, but those were the guidelines that the network had set up, and one had to deal with them whether they liked the situation or not. What has happened in the recent past with the Poser Hot20 is that a few people are members of graphic newsgroups and have gotten the members of those newsgroups to create an account here at Renderosity for the sole purpose of voting and commenting on images. Regardless of what each of us as an individual thinks of the Hot20 and how the ratings are achieved, someone is not going to be 100% in total agreement with it. That's life in that respect. But we do have the right to voice our opinions or suggestions and be non complacent.

hmm...interesting about the Star Search thing.One would think they would wait and compile all the votes and announce them on the next episode(that would keep folks tuning in to see the results.) I agree that no matter how the Hot 20 is done,it will never satisfy everyone. Too bad really. There really should be a way to have a contest such as this,with voting by their peers,in a fair way and makes everyone happy. Easier said than done I s'pose. Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

The simple solution is to go ahead and vote for the image, but give it the lowest score possible. Well, they did ask you to vote, but they did not request the best score.

How much of a popularity contest is it, really? The top vote getter right now has 42 votes. There are over 1700 people logged in on this site right now (if the statistics are correct). 42 is a pathetic percentage, which shows what a lack of interest there is in the whole Hot 20 thing.

Of course I happen to think it is sad that more people in some places are voting for American Idol then voted for president, but that's neither here nor there.

The Hot 20 is the showcase primarily for a single type of endlessly cloned image (with one exception that I can see). The artists have talent, no question of that in my mind. But the actual voters have a lack of imagination and most forum members have a lack of interest in the whole thing.

So why do we bother with it?

I don't think spamming for votes is the answer.

lol... or a "rate this image. -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 lol Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

Oh dialyn....the presidency issue is a much bigger can of worms for sure. When going through the galleries, I've noticed on some artists that they only allow for voting for the image, rather than allowing ratings or comments. So if someone likes the image, the only way for them to express their appreciation is to vote the Hot20. Also, of all the people that are logged on to Renderosity, we must consider that not all of them are Poser "addicts", but are involved in Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, Painter, or only use RO as a resource from the Marketplace or free stuff and don't even venture into the Gallery area, or much less venture into the forums.

I understand that Poser isn't the only gallery, but it is one, if not the largest and so should have a higher percentage of participants (at least in the very passive action of hitting a "vote" button). And I know there are other factors, but 42 is still a pretty sad little number for a "hot" list. No one is going platinum, that's for sure. I don't allow comments or ratings on my graphics, and, if I could take off the vote thing, I would (and can't figure out why that's not an option). No one is going to vote me into the Hot 20, and that's fine with me. Some of us aren't doing graphics to get in the popularity club...I grew out of that fantasy in high school. If I want feedback on a graphic, I'd post to the forum where there tends to be discussion about a graphic instead of the usual: "oh, that's great," or "oh, that sucks," kind of statement, which do me no good, or I would go to one of the off Renderosity groups (which I have done) to get insight into how I can improve. I'm always surprised when it appears that someone took the time to view my graphics, but I don't expect anything else from them but a passive glance.

ladynimue Thanks, As I've mentioned, I've taken care of the problem. Should it happen again, I'll revisit the issue. mm

Hi BluesPadawan,

Just want to set the record straight on your last statement.
About Artist not allowing Comments or Ratings - But some Did Allow Voting.

Alas, the voting button is an auto function that is on All Gallery Images. There is no way (at this time) that the artist can or cannot elect to have the Vote Button active or inactive.

I can understand how this could look a little confusing or even suspicious. Hope that clears things up a bit :)

ladynimue

You are most welcome Minuteman, Please know we are here for you, if this problem comes up again, please do not hesitate to contact me, or any of the Poser Mods :) ladynimue

okay...how about a graphic that is posted between 12 midnight, and 6 a.m. said graphic has 5 comments...one by the renderer.....and 19 VOTES FOR THE 20. so, it makes the 20...based on all those anonymous voters who just happen to stop by and vote in the hours between midnight and dawn. yeah, right. yet, just this week, i have seen that happen. how about, for starters....ONE VOTE PER ISP. and, there should be some way to weed out the folks from offsite groups, who simply come here to vote for their friends.

I don't think there's any way that the politics will vanish (and you'll never eliminate friends voting for friends ... that's what friends do) but, but I am hoping the new Challenges that are being developed will help stir some creative juices. To me, the Hot 20 is just about as exciting as vanilla pudding. Nothing wrong with it and perfectly fine if you like vanilla pudding, but a little boring to have every night for dessert. And did you check out leather-guy's newest?...he is giving some new life to that old dragon. I like someone who takes a cliche and makes us look at it a new way. Lots of fine detail in that graphic. Yes, lots of Marketplace stuff, but it's an original treatment and I can happily defend liking his approach. P.S. I don't know leather-guy nor he me and he most certainly didn't ask me to post the link to his graphic. I did it because I was impressed by his effort and originality. So there.

he got a vote from me. it isn't friends voting for friends that bothers me. there's a group here, that is friendly and involved. the 20 has always been that way. what bothers me is the folks from offsite voting...and, i have even heard, possible clone voting for a candidate. and, i do think it wouldn't hurt to insist that someone have a gallery OF SORTS, in order to vote. for the artistically challenged...how about a pic in the member's gallery? or, even posts to the forums, on occasion. nameless folks who only come around to comment on ONE of the gallery pics...and, then fade back into the woodwork until that person posts ANOTHER gallery pic...well, i am suspicious of that. the 20 does mean something to certain folks here. it is wrong for one or two to "cheat" their way into it time and again....perhaps, beating out the likes of Leather-guy.

Thanks Poppi, for bringing the words out "offsite voting"...you captured my drift when I couldn't clarify myself enough I guess.

I find it odd that you said the "vote for this image" link is displayed with every gallery posting. I have over 36 images posted in my gallery and not a single one has that link attached. I've even wondered how it's put there. I'm not interested in using it just oftened wondered about it. I enjoy sharing my stuff with others who like the same thing, keeps me out of trouble, I appreciate the comments that are left simply because it means someone took the time to look. That's always nice. And I'm ever hopeful that something I've done might inspire someone else, even just a bit. That's the best part. I agree with dialyn, leather-guy's newest piece is excellent! Great use of color, texture, light and composition and, most of all, bless his poor machine that had to render it all! ;o)

FlyByNight

I don't really have an opinion about the Hot 20, and I don't ever vote (or expect to be voted for) but I think it's pretty damn shameful to spam other members for votes. As for cheating - it's always gonna happen, no matter what. Yes, it devalues the chart, but if you don't value it anyhow, there is no real loss. :)

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Hi Fly, :) The button is on your images. You just can't view it on your own images :) ladynimue

"I find it odd that you said the "vote for this image" link is displayed with every gallery posting. I have over 36 images posted in my gallery and not a single one has that link attached."

And the reason it's not there is because people would vote for their own images.

The Hot20 doesn't exist anymore as far as I'm concerned. As long as the same group is spamming it and filling it with vacant stares, canned poses and the latest prop with nothing more, it's nothing but a private groups' playground.

...... Kendra

Thanks, ladynimue, I never knew that but got to thinking that might be the case after I had posted. Learn something new every day! :o)

FlyByNight

The Hot20 doesn't exist anymore as far as I'm concerned. geeze, and i keep voting for the images that I think are really worthy. and, they almost never make it. you could be right. i didn't know that the 20 "group" was actually spamming for votes. i do know that the one i consider below mediocre by a long shot is going beyond spamming, to dragging out anonymous votes in the wee hours of dawn... but, but, could i be wrong? perhaps tons of folks surf the web, looking for below mediocre images in our gallery, to vote for, in the wee hours between midnite and dawn...(est time, that is.)

LOL @ Poppi...you go girl!

My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice!

What I really love about these discussions is that it allows me to discover some art I hadn't seen before. Just cruised over to FlyByNight's gallery...some very richly colored and detailed graphics over there. All is not lost in the land of Poser. :)

I don't know why anyone even cares. I will say that a lot of this only-a-insider-group-should- be-able-to-vote talk begins to sound a little elitist to me. But that's just me, I guess. I think SnowS hit it when he said the important thing is that we make whatever we want and enjoy doing it. I'm just glad poppi had yet another opportunity to drill us with the midnight-to-6 story/conspiracy theory in case we didn't get it the other times...:)(joke poppi) I can't believe anybody'd care enough to track such things....:) It's all good, Beav

I have rarely voted, it takes one hell of a good render for me to consider it. There are a few that catch my eye. Some of the painted hair and clothes blow me away, can't get the hang of it. But when I see the same blank stare with the same texture over and over again, it makes me wonder whats going on. My cat found this site when he jumped on the keyboard, I didn't know any of this existed. I saw what VooDoo was doing and I've been here ever since. I will never make the Hot 20, I just have fun doing what I do. Tashar 59

I'm just glad poppi had yet another opportunity to drill us with the midnight-to-6 story/conspiracy theory in case we didn't get it the other times...:)(joke poppi) I can't believe anybody'd care enough to track such things....:) well, beaver...it goes down like this: there is ia person who has basically made the 20 since his/her first days at this site. one moment, asking in gallery...how do i put clothing on my figures...2 weeks later...all over the hot 20 like shit on a fly, or somesuch. i was not the only one who thought this person did not belong up there...i saw that the folks who "commented" on this person's pics...well, i had not heard of most of them. i used this person's name in a forum post and had my entire gallery trolled...plus ims telling me of what had been done. so, we have a troll who cheats. swell. i get up early. i have a business, here, where i live. i drink my coffee, and cruise r'osity in the morning. and, hello...i do check the hot 20. why? because i am dumb enough to still care. and, if i sound elitist...well, i am not saying only "insiders" should be allowed to vote. i am saying that only actual renderosity participants should be allowed to vote. and, yes, purchases from the market do make one a participant, in my book. this is a commercial site. so, if you aren't even contributing dollars, pictures, thoughts, ideas, etc...well, why should you just mosey in and upset the 20 applecart?....ONE TIME ON EACH PICTURE FROM ANY ISP. fair is fair. and, to Rockets...i voted for at least 2 of your graphics in the last couple months. they did not make it. i guess it was 'cuz....well, sorry 'bout that....i guess you were beaten out by a sub par, faceless entity. well, i know you enjoy what you do. that is worth alot more than cheating in my book.

i don't think there's a need to bash the people in the top 20. i think they're phenomenal at what they do. the images may not always be my top 20, but they are a sample of some really good work here. that is my opinion, subjective in all it's glory. and i really love the entire gallery and this site as a whole. there are some genuinely good and fun people in this community -- most who spend a good deal of time doing great work, who strive to improve, have a blast doing it, and have the balls to show us their creations. that said, they are all beautiful to me. simply, the top 20 is what it is -- whatever it means to you. but as long as we stay focused on "creating," we're all winners. just keep posting i say. i love to see your work. :)

Ya'll have me curious now, I don't think I've ever looked at the Top 20, so going to see what the to-do is about. Personally, I just love Poser and Paint Shop Pro and enjoy creating images I've imagined. What I couldn't always put on paper, canvas or into sculpture I can now do digitally. I feel pretty lucky to have places that allow me to share those images. Thank you for commenting on my gallery, dialyn! I know most of it is fantasy related but I love it. I blame Frazetta.

FlyByNight

Sometimes I get so scared to post my work, I have quite a few images on my computer that I still don't have the nerve to post. I even entered, for the first time an entry into the Mag cover contest, I swear if it wasn't for being so busy last week at school, or being drunk over the weekend celebrating my 40th birthday, I would have deleted it from the contest. I have to admit though there was one time last week. I had 57 comments on my newest image, and I was in chat and I told everyone that I had this birthday wish to have 60 comments for my 40th birthday, be it good or bad comments. So I was a little selfish and gave the image's link to those in chat. But I have never im'ed anyone to vote for any of my work. The only time I have asked anyone for anything was my friends who I know would tell me if there was something that should be redone or fixed. Because I have worst level of confidence in my work. And I would want to know so I can keep working and improve on it all. Sometimes making the Top 20 does give me a little hope that maybe I'm doing something better. But as always the perfectionist in me thinks I should hone my talent everyday, until one day I won't find one thing wrong with it, and I won't be scared to post it.

Hi Dee (ladydawg)! Your work is gorgeous and your latest image deserves to be number 1 in the Hot20. I'm so happy for you and all you've learned and accomplished over the past year. I know you've put your heart and soul into your art and it shows with every image you post...so how bout posting some more of those hidden works of yours? LOL

My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice!

I agree! Lovely work, ladydawg! Well, I have to say I'm impressed with most of the work in the 20. Amazing how much stuff one misses, I know I've missed every one of these in the gallery. I even started looking through the Best Ranking, more I've never seen before. We sure do have a wonderful selection of very fine artists here, whether you consider yourself one or not, no matter what genre you create for. Pretty inspiring. ;o)

FlyByNight

I agree with Carol (rockets) that Dee (ladydawg)'s work is superb work and deserves to be at the top 20, and yes we all now want to see what you have hidden on that computer of yours Dee. Just as Crasher's is number 2...both well deserving and excellent pieces of work. There are other artists in the gallery that are always there due to the uniqueness and quality of their work. I was pleased to see picky's work back in the gallery after a long hiatus along with SkoolDaze who consistently provides us with unique visuals. I've known Donna's (flybynight) work for a long time now and it is consistently detailed and well thought out and her growth in Poser work along with all the other stuff she does is amazing. I always appreciate comments on my imagery and take my pleasure in the creation of the picture. If someone else likes it....that's icing on the cake. Marforno once told me, "Frannie, don't do images to please others...please yourself, your style is unique and excellent, and yours alone." Since that time, I've created for me.

Amen to that, Fran, good to see you and thank you. I always try to catch postings from you and Sinamin but, dang, that gallery fills quickly! I'm my own worst critic so it takes a lot to please me, let alone share it with others. I once read a quote that said "autograph your work with excellence", I've always remembered it and think of it each time I work on something new and just before I put my signature on it. Did I try my best? If I can say yes then I'm pleased and willing to share my creation. Even if no one looks at it or makes a comment. Sometimes I go to my gallery just to remind myself how much I've learned this past year, to see where improvements can be made or refer back to something where the pose or lighting worked right, and to also see how much I still have to learn. I'm having the best time of my life!

FlyByNight

Hmmmmmmm, it is reading this kind of stuff that is keeping me from even trying more poser art. I thought the folks here were all nice, but reading this is scarey. I just checked the hot 20, I saw lots of art, different types. Does it matter? You dont get paid in the hot 20 do you? I love the art by Ladydawg! that is beautiful. Poppi, Crasher, Vali... etc... all the hot 20 artists are great. Just my opinion... ( running for cover now)

It is not that the artists aren't talented...but you don't see a uniformity in the kind of graphic that is voted to be in the Hot 20??? It has shifted since this morning when 19 of the 20 were of staring, nearly naked or altogether naked females in very similar costumes. Now it is 16 of the the 20. There is nothing wrong with the 16...but they are all very similar graphics. I think what some of us are saying is that we would like to see a little more variety in the voting. More artists included. I'm glad to see more variety in this evening, but often it is the same three or four artists over and over again. And they are good artists...I'm not saying they aren't. But for a gallery this large to only be represented by four people with a single theme over and over again is a little weird. And it is great that at this moment there is more variety and more artists...but I suspect in another couple of days, the Hot 20 will reassert itself to the same images and artists that were there before. And if staring nude female pinups are what represents the best Poser can produce, that's great, and I'm glad for you who think that's the limits of possibilities. I just happen to think there are more subjects available for art than that. Forgive me for having the opinion that this evening is the first time in a long time I've seen some breakouts from the norm. This is not a slam against the artists who end up in the top 20 over and over again. I wish I had 1/20th of their talent. I'd just like to see something else here and there that shows Poser can be pushed a little. And I couldn't be happier that the Hot 20 has changed for the better tonight. I'd love to be proved wrong and see that as a trend toward variety of thought. Congratulations, Poppi. Looks like you made it. :)

Dialyn? I am lost now! If the images are fine, that is, they are good, what am I missing? It would scare the pants off of me if I had an image in the hot 20! First, i am not good enough, second, I would be afraid that it would be a same as the others type. That is because I dont know enough about this program to do anything else. Is there ever a poser class offered? The instruction manuel doesnt say a whole lot ! I say congratulations to all the artists who have the guts to post here! I am still trying, and may post again some day. I hope to get a little better first. You are are wonderful artists and I think you should all be proud of your work. As a new comer, I am simply in awe of the beautiful renders you all make. This year should bring you all nothing but joy and happiness. That is my wish for you all! kathy

If you see nothing wrong, then there is nothing wrong. If all you want to do is endless pinups, then go with my blessings. I just enjoy seeing other images. Endless naked or near naked women in picture after picture demonstrates a deficit of imagination to me...but obviously not to everyone else. I wouldn't impose my tastes on anyone. That's why I avoid the Hot 20. I know predictably what the majority of the graphics will look like time after time. And if that's what you enjoy, and what you want to produce, then succeed and be in the Hot 20. If you don't understand what I mean by variety, there's absolutely no point in my continuing to waste words on the topic. Go and be well. I'm done with this thread.

"i don't think there's a need to bash the people in the top 20"

There's a slight history that many may not understand. A lot of what's in the H20 right now are there legitimately. Especially Ladydawg (I liked that one) and Crasher. But a while back a group was voting in the very mediocre stuff of one person. It did not belong. It was argued by the person that her friends should vote for her and did. We argued back that not every image was deserving. It started to happen again and it degrades the H20.
Anytime this discussion comes up it does push people to vote and you see the deserving images in there for a bit, then it degrades back into the group voting mediocre images in again.

The Poser H20 should be a showcase of the stuff that pushes Poser to it's limits. The images that obviously took more than a day to complete. It's not a popularity contest and people shouldn't have their friends vote every single image in. It's pathetic.

I used to visit the Poser Hot 20 to see what amazing things people were doing with the program and it's postwork. Now I only go there when I need a laugh.

...... Kendra

Oops~ I didnt mean to offend anyone. I just am saying that from my point of view, The art in the hot 20 is more then I can do. So, I congratulate them. If you want to see what I mean, check out my gallery for a good laugh! I have so much to learn! Sigh Kathy

Kathy...you certainly didn't offend me...I've only been in the Hot20 when the Memorial gallery after 9/11 happened. Many artists remove some of their early images from their galleries. I've left mine to remind me where I was and where I've managed to move forward to. I still have a long way to go. You too will gain knowledge and skill the more you work with Poser and yes, postwork as Kendra said is a key element in "finishing" imagery.

omg...i did make it. how the heck did that happen? i haven't made it in over a year. i'm shocked.

Hey Poppi! It's not quite 2:30 ak emma here. I'm not unique... most of the artists I know are night owls... but if I went and voted while I normally happen to be up you'd consider me suspicious?!? This is also a global community. Maybe somebody in Japan or Germany would like the right to vote without aspersions. And as for BluesPadawan... many of us professional artists do not maintain a gallery here. Our work is too often owned by our clients. You'd disenfranchise those of us who make a living from doing art? My response to that is unprintable. I will not say that my professional opinion is worth more than yours, and will not suffer you to say that it is worth less! I so very seldom have time to cruise the galleries and have voted for only a rare handful of images over the years, but it is unthinking remarks like these which get my dander up. Carolly

Carolly, I certainly didn't mean to offend you in any way. I think you have mistaken my meaning. I too make money from my art, but not so much with poser but in other mediums, and none of that is represented here. So very sorry to have upset you.

In the four or five months that I've been posting work and hanging around here I can't recall ever seeing an image in the Hot 20 that wasn't an illustration of a fantasy or sci fi-based female. Granted, I don't look at the Hot 20 on anything that could be considered a regular basis, so given the law of averages I'm sure that work in other genres and genders must have been included at some point. Does the JettBoy think that all fantasy/sci fi-based girly illustration is bad? No, of course not. I like fantasy and sci-fi as much as anyone and I just love naked women (don't mind 'em clothed, either), but a steady diet of Frazetta/Royo/Boris Vallejo clones gets pretty damn boring after a while regardless of the quality of the piece or the talent of the artist. I would be much more interested in the Hot 20 if there was even a hint of variety in it.

I can remember one. Pink pony. Anyone remember the pink pony? yeah, I'm sure you do. :) I seem to remember others that were there after 9/11 that weren't naked women too. but my memory is a bit thin now. anyway, its just a popular vote, and popular votes really don't say a thing about how good/bad something is. It just says you got that many people to vote for it. Yay team. Big flipping deal. If you got enough people together to vote I'm sure there's got to be at least 30-40 of you to actually vote something you like into the Hot 20. You could probably vote a naked Poser mannequin in there if you so wanted. Instead you're all here complaining about it... typical day in the life of renderosity's poser forum... post Naked Vickies or complain about people that post naked Vickies lol. Have you people got something better to do? Like post something you like? I guess not. oh yeah, I'm in Germany too so every time I vote or comment someone I guess I'm doing something subversive, eh? Fun thought. How Americentric we all are here. First no naked Vickies and I'm supposed to post when YOU are awake in the States... What bugs me. I chafe when anyone thinks they are so high and mighty to tell ANYone what to post in the galleries here. It was my understanding that anyone can post here, no matter what your skill level, as long as your content followed the image TOS rules. So, as long as an image follows TOS here, I really could care less if its naked and crosseyed doing backflips at the river Styx. With a sword. :) Now I may have my opinions about how good the image is or isn't, but that's really unimportant. bijou/who knows she'll never be in the top 20, even though she can probably outdraw/outpaint most of the people in it. And still manages not to give a flip about it.

You know, I came up with a perfectly rational and functional solution to this problem that would work completely. Search bak in the forum for my answer if you want to know. However, you're all spinning your wheels discussing what Renderosity should do in this forum. That's not how Renderosity works. Renderosity, instead, decides whatthey are going to do, asks people what they think about it, and then goes ahead and does it regardless of that people say they think. Hasn't anyone realised that yet?

In this case, I really don't think the Hot 20 is about Renderosity admins, mods, or even the artists. It is about a paucity of voters, the few who vote having predictable voting patterns, and inertia. Which is pretty much the issue with voting anywhere for anything these fine, indifferent times. We could take some responsibility for what happens on the Hot 20 ourselves, and be more aggressive about showcasing a variety of talents on the forum but that would take some effort, but who would want to do that when it is so much more fun to sit back and complain?

I don't think it works just to say "ignore the Hot20". It's there, and it reflects on the site as a whole. A new person could legitimately come along, say to themselves, "let's see what's valued in this community", come to the conclusion that nothing but formulaic sub-Royo was appreciated, and go away again. Either it needs to work, or it needs to be canned.

The voting is subject to manipulation because of the small number of people who vote. The small numbe of people voting is an indication of how few people have the time or the interest in the whole thing. So you have two groups. The vast majority of people simply enjoy using Poser. They come here for the freestuff, advice, help maybe to look at the pretty pictures. You also have a small group of people who feel passionately about art (I think), and engage in endless debates about naked Vicky, originality, vote fraud etc. The one thing that might change things is more people from the larger group getting involved but... I think any poor Poser hack who gets within 10 miles of here probably figures that their efforts would just be another target for the art posse. Why would anyone who wants to do nudes for example want to get involved when every week there are posts complaining about too many nudes? The overall quality of images at Renderotica may not be as good as here but people there just seem to have fun doing them without having constant carping about what is and isn't art, who isn't trying hard enough, whose pictures aren't being viewed enough or rated high enough. I think that's what most people want out of Poser. I know the small group doesn't see themselves as elitist or obsessive or narrow minded, just passionate people being passionate about something they love. From the outside though, it sometimes looks like one of those fancy clubs where they probably wouldn't be welcome and definitely wouldn't have fun anyway. So the Hot 20 is an inbred, incestuous farce? Go figure. I think I know the answer now. 'Rotica is about sex as much as art, some would say more so. Sex is fun. Art should be fun too but by the time it gets debated, dissected, and given a cavity search for worthiness, it isn't very much fun at all for the unwashed majority.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken