Again posting this here cause there is no forum for Poser freestuff. I am contracted to make content for Daz. Even though I don't broker anymore my employement is linked to the success of the content I can provide. So this is why this issue is so relavent Well I see Lady Luna is still a member here despite several infractions. And I keep finding Warez rehacks of things I have made for sale in Freestuff. Another one just now with over 2000 downloads. Taking something down after 2000 downloads is like opening the umbrella after the rain has stopped. I think it is nice that you guys want to give people 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th chances but who exactly accepts resposibility for Freestuff content. I know Freestuff is the largest draw for Renderosity but I think it is unfair to just refuse to accept any responsibility for it's content. I think if the site reaps the all benefits of the feature they could take a bit of responsibility for the damage it does to others It is nice that their is so much understanding and forgiveness but this is getting more expensive at others expense. There is tons of other people things rehacked here and there as far babck as freestuff goes back to. Tracking is made harder due to the fact you cannot bookbark a Freestuff page Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Magic Woman Hair For Non-Commercial Use Only Add-on Item Notes & Requirements By: x0261539 Jan 4, 2003 PC/Mac 2716 downloads This is just a poor triangulation and cop up of a portion of the "Moongodess" mesh I incuded with Majik at Daz. I downloaded the mesh and it is identacle. This is rediculous.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Sorry for the lousy typing.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I didn't download the hair, but I think I saw Lady Luna posting some dresses, referring to Serge Mark or similar.

Hi Anton, Sorry to hear that this kind of thing is happening. I know if it was me I'd be very pissed. I know it's not much consulation but doing what you are doing and pointing this out is the best way to get people's attention. Keeping people informed is the only way to let honest members know what items are being stolen. I'm tired of how many people I come across that think warez is ok. There's right and wrong, if you can't afford something maybe you should find a way to earn it!

Anton (and everybody else for that matter, but Anton in particular). The file in question, the magic hair, is hosted on my site. Well it was. The files are no longer accessable from my site. I wouldn't even know how to check to see if something were reworked in the way that you've described... I apologize profusely for my part in any of this.

sigh

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

Anton, I'm sorry that we didn't catch the hair. I do go through the Free Stuff every day, but I don't remember seeing that one. The link doesn't currently work and there's no picture, so I can't see the hair now. (I'm not saying that I doubt you; I'm admitting to missing it while it was available or I would have taken action.) As for Lady Luna, I just posted to the admins asking what is going on with that. Obviously I was wrong, but I'd thought that you'd come to an agreement with Lady Luna and her daughter on this fiasco (fiasco on her end, not yours) and that was why she was still allowed here. Thank you for bringing these up. For the hair mesh, all I can say is that we're human and occasionally miss something. For Lady Luna, please give the admins a bit of time to respond. I don't want to comment on it as I obviously don't have all the facts. Thanks, Cres

The problem is people just don't care. the Site just wants traffic through the store, the guilty party just wants some praise and attention for a job well done. Worst part is the artists who slip through the cracks. I think either some sort of review procedure for free stuff is in order. If they can't ensure its integrity they shouldn't be allowing thousands of people access to it. Or at least make restitution to those being damaged if they will not ban the offenders. Thanks Cin. I know you would never be intentionally involved in something like that.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I see this a lot... well, somewhat often at least- it's not just the Poser community; it's fairly rampant in game mod communities as well. As far as I can tell, it's sort of a status thing- "Hey, lookit me, I released something cool!"... which is why most anyone releases free stuff anyway, apart from genuinely trying to help the community. Still, it boggles the mind that people would release stuff that wasn't actually theirs to try to gain "status"... The only legitimate reason I can think of is the culpurate not understanding that just taking a texture and recoloring it does not actually count as "original work". Apart from that, the only thing that would cause someone to take the credit for someone elses work is a desperate need to feel valuable or some such...

Personally, I'm too damn proud to do anything like that. I guess the people who steal other's work and pass it off as their own have no pride what-so-ever. Rather pathetic if you ask me... sigh

Thanks Crescent She and this x.... whatever person should be banned. Most of us are all over 30. Noone is that dumb. They know what thy are doing. Not hard to know when something doesn't belong to you. If people stopped downloading and giving people stolen stuff they wouldn't have any doubts on whether or not they can reuse it. IMHO

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Anton, I, as well, thought you'd come to an agreement with Lady Luna and her daughter. And I read everything I saw on the matter and didn't see it end in a 'banning'. Sergemark has given her stuff to work with...you are not accusing this current freestuff of hers as being yours are you? If it's not, then my feeling is that you should just let her be.

I have no idea why you guys think this Lady Luna issue is resolved.This most recent dress of hers doesn' use my geometry.... only the 13 dresses before that one did. She should have been banned before and definately now. I think you should enforce your rules and ban her and this other person. If you want to be forgiving then please use your money to do it. Lets see $1 per dress times 13 times 2000. That would be $26,000. Yes that would make me willing to let her be. Yeah just send me $1 for every download in freestuff and I would be happy indeed to let them be.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Anton, You're right as rain on this. I avoid anything Lady Luna does, and deleted most of the things I downloaded from her (still looking, lots of stuff to go through). That's the responsible thing we all can do. I think as people find these, they should be posted here so we can avoid them, and if we've got them, delete them. If we have something we really like, then we can go back and BUY THE PRODUCT from the real creator. I don't understand why people do this. They should know they'll be caught and ruin rather than make their reputation. There are ways to distribute things like this so that only if you have the original purchased products will they load. Encoders work very well. Its a little extra effort, but I'd think it'd be a lot better than getting the reputation as a pirate and being (eventually) banned. And you're wrong. She owes you the full price for the product times the number of downloads. If you sold a dress for $10, she should be coughing up $20,000 per dress, times 13... so $260,000. The 'sity should be giving you all the contact information they have for your lawyers. I'd also report her to the software piracy associations. This kind of crap doesn't encourage people to get into making products. Of course it happens, but this is blatent and very disheartening.

Here we go again.

I think this is a big website and not a lot of staff to handle things in an immediate and swift action. I also think the staff here has done a fantastic job in responding to complaints and keeping the fast moving forums on track. All that aside, I hope the staff does take action after careful and reasonable investigation because we all like DAZ, we all want the folks connected with DAZ to have a presence here, and we all hate 'arvedarr' software. You know, Arve Darr, the best of the pirate world. These kinds of threads are ok once in a while when the rare exception gets by the PTB, but it seems like they come up just a bit too often these days.

Free stuff review sounds like the best solution. Banned people will come back as somebody new or just move on to another site and continue.

I am not trying to be an ogre. This problem in Freestuff is nothing new. It's just noone talks about it. Everyone handles it behind closed doors. I think the way freestuff runs needs to be re-thought, revamped, and changed. I agree that infomation should be shared. Requests by me in the past have been refused. Unfortunately I am not sure how mods or admins can identify items they do not own. This is also a problem in the Marketplace that slips by betatesters at times. I am not sure if I know what the solution is but something has to change. But banning people doing it is a good start.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Anton, no arguments from me about this issue. I have no respect for people ripping people off. Cin~, if there is ever a question about something like this, that you are hosting, let me know, I'm sure that if I was to get it and compare it ( if I have the retail product ) then a third party evaluation could be used to settle the dispute. ( in such a circumstance, I think that it would be possible toget the commercial product mesh for comparison, with it understood that this is not a product being given for any other use )

I think it's silly to allow the copyright theives to remain while banning other members for silly infractions such as calling a moderator a dufflebag. Renderosity has banished many fine members who contribute greatly to the community, while allowing criminals to remain.

Anton: I'm with you 100% on this one. I have your Majik set from Daz and that hair she offers is identical to yours. I thought a single instance of theft was supposed to get people banned, but she's done this before under the same identity with those period dresses (I also have the "real" one of that as well). Fortunately I have never downloaded any of "her" freebies.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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Looking into this matter now. Working with Anton via IM's...

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

I cannot see how anyone would even have a clue if a free or fee product is stolen or not.... How am I as a downloader able to know that that hair, as an example, is stolen from Anton??? How do I know that Lady Luna has been doing this? I don't go out and download a free item, open the mesh and compare the triangles and polygons of everything against the original....there are thousands of for sale products and 10 times as many free items.... I can't even see how the admins here can do it.... That leaves the original product creator the task of continually searching all the sites to root out the evil ones...checking the textures, meshes and stuff for stolen items...yikes But I think it is up to the site owners to rectify the situation to everyone's satisfaction....fast...when this is found out..and proven.. stealing is stealing.... there should also be notices....possibly even on the free stuff or marketplace that lists items that are known to be stolen---so the innocent purchasers and downloaders can remove items from their hard drives. In addtion, if I buy an item here, or any marketplace, and it is found to be stolen, I should get a refund or credit.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Anton, it's good that you're bringing this up. I've downloaded her things and never knew they were yours. I have to assume that all the other people who have downloaded them had no idea either. I'll be deleting her things out of my computer. Thanks for letting us know. I just wonder why she doesn't get the point. And she hasn't come in here to try to defend herself. I guess she knows she's guilty. Melanie

The hair was offered by someone else. (Unless this is a clone account, though I doubt it.) These are two seperate issues, but both affect Anton. Spike and Anton are apparently working this out, but I did want to pop in and thank everyone for discussing this in a calm matter and giving us time to look into it. Cres

I don't know the people accused...but in some circumstances, is it possible that what they are doing just doesn't ring a bell that it is wrong? Maybe not in this specific case, as it appears it has been going on and brought to their attention...but in other cases. Poser content is a bit of a strange deal....we have people pulling pieces of Vicky out to build clothes, skull caps and stuff....using templates to make textures...there are quite a few people that manipulate other's textures to achieve new looks...its ok to produce poses from the geometry...its kinda hard to always know what we are able to do or not...

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

I think I mentioned X's Magic Woman hair at the time as looking like Anton's Magik hair-- my god the names are the same. The rest of his hair looks original-- I own just about every hair model so I'm a fairly good touchstone on hair. What I don't know is if the mesh is the same. I think the best policy to set up is -- if you see something in Free Stuff that looks suspiciously like something you bought, notify someone. Who is the question? I don't always remember who made everything I have. It would be good to have a mod in charge of warezing free stuff. Otherwise, any comment is going to get lost in the forum. I know if there had been that mod, you would have heard about Magic woman hair when it first came out. Quoted from a post of mine at Poser Pros on Jan 4th. Does anyone think these might be reworks of old Poser 4 hair? I hadn't until I saw BigMan hair and that looks like no5-- I think-- that Kozaburo redid. Slightly different but the same basic shape, and Nice man is like no. 1-- I may have these backwards, of course, assume any number. . . Just like magic woman hair looks like Anton's magic hair lite. Emily

Anton, If you are not getting satisfactory support for this issue over time, you can always use the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) to "nudge" Renderosity to help you. Any claims on their part that they are not responsible for content uploaded are pretty much invalidated, as the US courts continually agree that that is not an excuse, and that service providers, of any form, are increasingly responsible for the content on their networks/forums. - Ray

I can't speak to Luna's stuff because there's nothing put out there in way of proof one way or the other by either her or Anton -- maybe if someone put up a side by side comparison of the actual meshes? Insofar as JS's hair work, my guess is that in his case it's more naivite than wanting to put something over on the community. He probably saw what Koz did with two of the male hair props and decided to do something similar, not knowing that doing it with Anton's was over the line. In this case, I'd cut him a bit of slack after advising him of what he did in error. But another poster raised a good point: there are literally hundreds of things uploaded to freetuff every week, on top of the already thousands of items in existence. You'd have to have an extremely sharp eye and an incredible memory to be able to recognize everything when a copyright violation comes through. My recommendation, Anton (assuming you're even inclined to take one from me), is that you put up the side-by-side images and make your case to Admin. If it's that blatant, you know they'll ban Luna -- they've done it before to others. Just my suggestion.

yeah queri, "quoted at Poser Pros"

Problem is that not all of us go around at ALL Poser forums to read stuff... Ive been to Poser Pros. I'm a mamber there. But I almost never actually GO there. Renderosity and RL takes up enough of my time as it is G

So a warning about someone should be posted on EVERY site where the stuff is downloadable.

Anton, I'm sorry that you'be been ripped off on those occasions. Wondering about this X person though. There have been a LOT of posts here regarding this great hairpieces, and this is the first mention I've seen about it being a rip off. Not saying that it isn't.

FWIW, I have my original MAX files of ALL my Free Items, in case anyone doubts my ownership of those. Well not MAX files of the textures of course, but in those cases I think I have the psd files as well.

I don't like the idea of "rewiewing" free stuff. Honestly, I contribute free stuff coz I like to share it when I have made something new, and I don't like the idea of a "testing period" before I can release MY items. Of course I could just put it on my site, but then again, what's the use if I can't announce it anywhere?

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

Keep talking, Anton. The more people who know about these scams, the better. Sometimes people use things through ignorance, and if they knew it was stolen they wouldn't. 100% support is needed from Rosity on this. Take no prisoners.... just ban the people concerned. mac

Anton did post side-by-side pics of the mesh of one of Luna's dresses and one of his which showed that part of his was cut out and incorporated into the other one (it was a perfect match).

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

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Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

In an earlyer thread about 2 weeks ago. Anton DID post side by side comparisons of Lady Luna's mesh and his. Admins checked and severed links and took the pics off. No bann of the person though. This is NOT a new issue for this person Lady Luna, it is an old issue of a person distributing illegal copies of others work and claiming it as their own. Blatently. I'm very suprised that nothing has been done about this issue. Someone brought up the money factor, it's a lot of money, it's hurting someones reputation, and hurting their wallet. If a modeller, texture creator etc polices sites and finds something for purchase (re: Turbosquid) or freebie that there is some issue with, it should be delt with swiftly. I know more about this Lady Luna from these threads, and whats going on than I wanted to know, or should know about. Anton, keep up the good work, it's nice to see someone standup for their work when there is a violation, or even a question about a violation.

I missed that thread, so I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up, guys. But I still think we should give JS (the hair guy) a little slack on this. Show him what he did in error and give him the chance to correct it... which he may have already figured out since the links are apparently now gone.

Anton, since we talked at Dragon*Con this year, I have come to know a bit more about the person behind ALL that stuff I have purchased of yours. I find you to be honest and hardworking and imaginative. I hate what has happened to you. I might tend to agree that the FREE STUFF here @ R'City is a big draw. But, the site is so big now that they should no longer have to depend on that to draw people in. I also think it would be a tough problem to find a solution for...considering how big it is. With all the warez going on out there with EXACT copies of stuff, having this site not going to extra mesaures hurts a significant amount. Some people say that someone shouldn't complain about a problem unless they can offer a solution. I don't have a solution 'cause I'm not smart enough. I just wish there WAS a solution.

Actually, it occurs to me that ISP's and web hosts will usually cancel the account of a person who offers illegal materials online. Apart from banning here and pulling the links, if they don't quit, it's usually possible to contact their web host- and having an established account cancelled and deleted is usually a fairly significant blow to the willful copyright infringer... not that its a permanent measure at all, unfortunately; just a temporary setback. Just a thought, since links to stolen stuff are usually posted on multiple websites. And, ryamka, please, don't go dragging the DMCA into this... that whole act leaves a rather nasty taste in my mouth, since it smacks of censorship (Red Hat (a Linux distributor) actually refused to release product documentation to US citizens recently, due to the DMCA.)

Why not post the (real) names and (real) addresses of known warezers, either internally or externally, and share that info with other 3d sellers and brokers? No need to share Credit Card info, but just the person's name and addy. That way, the warezer cannot buy the stuff he or she needs to copy off of, and if it is posted externally, the humiliation alone would be more than enough to deter other warezers from buying. /P

"Red Hat (a Linux distributor) actually refused to release product documentation to US citizens recently, due to the DMCA.)" Err, say what? /P

If you posted thier names you would risk being sued, unless they had already been convicted in court in which case the judge might authorise it.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

Please remember that we don't host the free stuff, If we did, it would have to go through a approval process. We do want to get this issue closed, but have to be fair to all involved.

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

Anton, I read your earlier post about Lady Luna. I had not downloaded any of her stuff before and specially not after reading about what she had done. When I saw her posting in the Free Stuff area again, I was a bit surprised and I thought that there must have been some solution to the problem. I'm very surprised that she was not banned. Anyway, knowing about the earlier events, I stayed far away from her stuff and now I'm glad I did. About that hair guy, I'm with ernyoka: this is the first I've heard that there are some issues concerning his hair items. What exactly is the problem? Did he use some of Anton's hair meshes or what? Which hair items are we talking about? I'd like to know because I don't want to use any illegal items.

Spike said: "Please remember that we don't host the free stuff, If we did, it would have to go through a approval process." Perhaps not, but I don't see much of an argument in a court of law since the Napster case, where they didn't host the material either. They just posted the information of whose PC they could download it from. Seems like you are in the same "boat" here, Spike. Signed: Non-legal expert...who THINKS things look similar.

JS apparently starts with the basic Poser hair props and then reworks them, much as Koz did with Male Hair 2 and 5, and apparently he reworked Anton's Magic hair as well. All links to his materials seem to have gone, which is a mixed blessing IMHO, as his body texture work was very different and very styled. I'm gonna say it again: in his case, I think we're looking at naivite more than wholesale deception. JS is, as far as I know, new around Poser circles and quite possibly didn't understand the restraints.

yup, the Napster correlation does look similar. I think freestuff needs an approval process too. I think an idea would be to have people apply to offer things for free first, where they have to part with some confidential personal information. You might have less free stuff, but I think in the long run we'd all be better off. I used to be involved with the game mod community, and know for a fact that this behaviour is mainly to say to your buds 'look how great I am' And some take the short cut to that notoriety, guessing perhaps they might not be caught, or that enough people do the same thing they do, so nobody will do anything about it, and jeer/witchhunt the people that actually have the guts to complain. (I've been there, so I know) So here I am cheering Anton on... go Anton go. Never stop talking about it, because when we stop talking about it is when the honest majority of this community loses. In the end, this warezing kills the creativity of the community, because what happens is that the people that actually create the cool stuff stop doing it. and Anton, I love that bombshell hair.. thanks for making it. :) Its the closest to my hair in real life.

Thanks, VirtualSite. I agree, I think it's very likely that JS didn't mean to deceive people. Now I'm starting to vaguely remember that he had some Magic hair kind of thing. I didn't download that one. As for the reworked Poser hair, those would be all right to use since I have Poser anyway, right?

you're supposed to use pcf encoding on the mesh that its based on. This is even done for Eve and Azura, who are based on the Posette mesh. You're not supposed to distribute the raw obj if you didn't create it. I don't understand why some folks have an allergy to pcf encoding, but some do, and I suspect its for the reason I detailed above... to brag to your friends about how great/generous you are.

Uhm Bijoucat.. Is what you're saying that Free Stuff porviders only post free stuff to say "Hey look at me. I'm something"?! I'm not sure I like that idea. And honestly I don't like the idea of people having to give out a lot of personal information in order to GIVE SOMETHING AWAY! sheesh... if this is going to be the solution, I'm going to find another place to give all my stuff away.

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

Very good points on the freestuff. I will bring this to the team for review. Don't get me wrong here, Please don't stop talking about the issue, I am only stating that Anton and I will deal with his matter via IM or e-mail. This is a big issue and I would love to put a stop to it. We might have to change the way the free stuff works as well. It would be a sad day when you have to go through a approval process to give something away. But the actions of some members might make this happen.

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

I want them banned. He bought Majik hair and reworked it and posted it for free. He even triangulated it to disguise it. All he did was chop off the top. Nothing was improved or "Reworked". NOONE IS THAT STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Same with Lady Luna.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Spike, You guys were suppose to look into it before and never got back to me. I would rarther handle this publically since private has never worked before.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

We can openly talk about some issues, yes, but others we can not. I can not talk about what actions we have taken to other members as you know. I am taking this to IM. Please check your IM's

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

I wish there was another way, but there probably isn't ernyoka :( You don't have a right to post freestuff here, its a priveledge Renderosity grants, and its a priveledge they can take away too. all its going to take is one lawyer armed with enough money to take down the free stuff area completely. I'd rather have a free stuff with restrictions than a free stuff without any that goes bye-bye totally. I'd rather see free stuff warezers be sued than R'osity be sued. Renderosity has my information already since I buy here, so really I have nothing at all to hide. Pen - trying to stop the warezers from buying the stuff is mostly pointless, as many of them don't buy it, they get it over the net. I used to give away lots and lots of stuff for free, and I used to sell game mods too. I don't anymore, and its because of this problem. The only way I can be sure my stuff doesn't get warezed is by keeping it on my hard disk. Sad fact of human nature, most people will take a short cut if they can, and if we don't make it clear that shortcut won't be tolerated, they'll continue to take shortcuts.

"Why not post the (real) names and (real) addresses of known warezers, either internally or externally, and share that info with other 3d sellers and brokers? No need to share Credit Card info, but just the person's name and addy." Sounds like an invitation to recieve a BIG FAT lawsuit. Considering all the serious nut-cases running around on this planet, subjecting somone to the VERY REAL possibility of getting their house burned down, or being murdered over somthing like this, is pretty extreme. Don't you think? If selfish stupidity were a capital offence, planet Earth would be "human free" right now.

I think the biggest problem here is that would require a LOT of admin time and $$ to go back through every single freestuff item, let alone any new fs things. While it's pretty obvious that my stuff is original (who else would do a cartoon sun? Groucho glasses? et al), there are many who are not so cut and dried. Above all... unless the person is a repeat offender, please let us not witch hunt. And what happens if Lady Luna starts making 100% original material? I know, Anton, you say she won't, and should be banned. So there's no chance for her to ever go straight? Ever? Okay, I would like to see you explain that. Note: I'm just making this point for the sake of seeing all sides of the issue, btw)

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

I don't care what these people start doing from now on. I am only concerned with what they have already done. This is the hair. Notice that despite morph and triangulation the mesh is still obviously the same. Mine is on the left...his/hers is on the right.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

The lady Luna pics you need SPike are in that thread.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I would agree 100% with you on this issue, this is the same mesh. I will take action on this... Can you please post a link to the other issue please Too many posts to follow..... TIA Spike

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1047633

here it is spike

Looking now...

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

To all those who sdo not see the DMCA as being relevant here, you are sadly mistaken. The case that we have here is a product that is ONLY available as digital content. As such, all copyright laws apply to the content (at least in the US, where I assume most of the content is created and "housed" - if I am mistaken,I apologize). Since these items have a default copyright per US law, and specifically in this case many have EULs included, all rights and privileges accorded to copyrighted materials apply. Regarding the hosting, even though Renderosity does not host the items on its own site, it does provide links to the offsite locations. As such, it is acting as and/or facilitating the "transaction", which is the downloading of the object. REGARDLESS OF ANY VERBAGE THAT RENDEROSITY MAY HAVE ON ITS SITE TO THE CONTRARY, they are acting as facilitators, even if indirectly. As such, recent court rulings specifically and absolutely apply to Renderosity, because they are acting as facilitator. These ruling include those against Napster and Verizon. There are no differences here. In the Napster case, Napster just faciliated, but did not host. In the Verizon case, the "ISP" is responsible at least partially for the actions of its users. Howver you may want to argue, the current interpretations of the law agree to this. I for one do not look to the day where we have to go through loops to provide or download content, but the fact of the matter is, all of the Rendering community may have to take this into consideration as all it takes is one person to show legal harm for this to cost all of us. - Ray, who DOES know something about digital copyright law

Here is something else. Vicki geometry cannot be distributed as OBJ files. Spike you guys are leaving yourselves wide open. Look at the download numbers. Do you see what I am saying now? One offense is damaging enough even if it gets found or noticed. Imagine how many downloads will have passed by the third offense. Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

NOONE IS THAT STUPID I'm glad you think so, but I'm more inclined to give the guy the benefit of the doubt as to his motives before cutting him up into tiny little pieces and then stomping on them. He's a newbie. He's shut down the links. He probably knows he screwed up and wanted to make amends by deleting the links. Ever consider that?? Of course, I could be wrong, but would it frigging hurt to find out before we all sharpen the knives? The rest of his stuff is based on the P4 meshes, yeah, but not everyone knows how to pcf-encode. And if the lack of that knowledge makes people like him STUPID, then I guess I am too. Big whoop. If stupidity is the basis on which we measure people around here, I can think of a few really stupid things in the past myself that people have done to me. Do we really want to travel down that road? Sheessh, Anton. Yeah, it's lousy when someone like Luna time and again rips you off, but not everyone is like Luna. Some people make innocent mistakes, and it might not be such a bad idea to ask the guy before you mail out the necktie party invitations.

VirtualSite, Go troll someone elses post.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Well, pookie, if you looked at the Notes for both of these, here's what you'd find: It is the character of Daz Victoria3. Please prepare Daz Victoria3 separately in use. It is work with Macintosh. It is the release by the obj file. head---Maiko_v3.obj neck---Maiko_neck.obj eye----MaikoLE.obj/MaikoRE.obj They're morph files. Now go take a Valium and get over it.

No, I will NOT go away, Anton. If you're gonna cite stuff like this, then you'd damn well better be able to prove unequivocably that these people were maliciously ripping you or DAZ off. Luna, yeah, I can understand, but now you're trolling the Freestuff area for things that somehow "prove" your case. Yeah, maybe people can reverse engineer from these things, but that requires a level of expertise that not many of us -- myself included -- have. And when I create a morph file for myself, it's an .obj -- just like these, just like every damn morph at Duane's ToyBox for that matter, and just like every other damn morph I have in my archives. SO IT'S A FUCKING INNOCENT MISTAKE, and why the hell you can't see that completely escapes me. So go after Luna, as you should. But the rest of these? Gimme a break.

VirtualSite. You spoke my thoughts. It may be illlegal to distribute V3 as the usual obj morphs. But then I've missed that part as well. Or rather not read the EULA thoroughly. After all I'm not crazy about reading long "law language" texts in english. And clearly the maker of these morphs haven't got english as his native tongue either. But perhaps it should only be allowed to upload anything for pure blooded english speaking folks? Oh but I forgot.. I don't have a right to upload anyway... so I'll shut my mouth and stop doing so.

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

PhoenixRising: *"VirtualSite,

Go troll someone elses post."*

Me: Tacky Anton...tacky and uncalled for...I don't see anything in VirtualSite's post that remotely resembled trolling! You (for whatever reason) may not like the guy, but you have no right to restrict who can comment in any post. You may have started the post...but by posting it in a public forum, you opened it to comment from any and all! If you don't like the kinds of comments you get, perhaps you should rethink posting to public forums!

Yeah well here is one for yeah Sean. Your not suppose to use Vicki morphs to make morphs. I made alot of the Vicki morphs. Some actually scale the polygns smaller. The Brow Soften morph I made was used on these. Tweaking dials for a base, then smoothing in LW or something else doesn't make them original.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Illusions, there is a history between VS and myself you are not aware of. Both here and at other forums. And it ain't pretty. Thanks for your advice but I am okay. :)

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Here's the thing... It IS Renderosity's responsibility to monitor 'Free Stuff'. All this 'We don't host it, we can't be responsible." is a load of bollocks. Does the term "facilitation to theft " mean anything? I'm not saying it's the intent, but it's the result none the lest. This cavalier attitude about it simply shan't suffice. And don't start in on the 'Oh but lordy, it would take too much money'. Doesn't cut it. Ya see, 'Free Stuff' makes money for Renderosity. It's a service that they offer. A service that attracts visitors and encourages members whom are then exposed to their marketplace and their software sponsors etc... It's all about 'bums in the seats' (to borrow a stage exporession). Don't wanna come off overly harsh, but get your shit together. If you're incapable of maintaining this service in a legit manner, then mayhaps you should not have it.

To all involved, Please stick to the point at hand! Unless members want warnings, I am in the mood ya know... Thanks And BTW, this is why I like to do this via IM or E-mail.

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

PhoeinxRising: "Illusions, there is a history between VS and myself you are not aware of. Both here and at other forums. And it ain't pretty."

Me: Keep that between you and VS and not in the forum...he made a civil comment, and you should show some decorum and keep your replies to him civil.

illusions, Thanks again for your advice.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

This is from the Renderosity TOS zero tolerance section: Soliciting or Trading of any products illegally. This includes, but is not limited to, requests and/or distribution of computer software, software security overrides, serial numbers and/or admission of use or possession (warez). So I'll repeat Anton's question; why haven't these offenders been banned? Where is the 'zero tolerance' for this 'Lady Luna' person? Ironically, since I was one of the 2000ish who downloaded the x0261539 rip-off of Anton's hair model - and I hereby admit possession of this 'warez' material (downloaded via Renderosity) - I suppose I can be banned immediately! Yes folks, people have been banned here for saying they've used warez stuff, but other people have used Renderosity facilities to actually distribute warez and remain free to do it again. You have to laugh.

Bebop flashbacks, anyone?

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

Illusions, there is a history between VS and myself you are not aware of. Both here and at other forums. And it ain't pretty Most of it due to your making snap judgments before really looking at things, as you've done to me on more than a few occasions, but that's another matter for another time. As far as these issues go, maybe it's time we heard from Luna herself, if anyone wants to invite her into the thread. I for one would sure like to hear her side of all this.

Oh Sean, Shut up already. Funny coming from the guy who posts dozens of replies though posts before figuring out what the post are actually about. Lord forbid you mind your business on something. I think we get get through the rest of this without you. I'm sure there is another post somewhere that needs your wisdom more.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Whatever you say, hon. But dealing with the actual issue here, you might bear in mind that innocent mistakes do occur, and not everyone is out to rip you off. Once you get past that, maybe it's time to deal with the real issue at hand, which seems to be Luna. Remember: Love ya like a sister.

The issue is warez being distributed via Renderosity freestuff.

Sean, Calling me "hon", Sweety", "pumkin", "sister" or whatever else you think will get under my skin is beneath you. I have told you many times not to do it both here and at PoserPros. Grow up. And stop trying to bait me with your now famous "love ya like a sister" comment. If you stopped insulting people or calling them names like "dufflebag" you might have less problems with people.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Anton, I see your point, and see that you are not making up your allegations. However, as an impartial observer I have to say I have litte sympathy for you when you behave so childishly. And of course using this to bash that Luna person who had nothing to do with this just adds that certain somthing. You sound like a real prig. You need to take a step back.

Attached Link: Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1047633

Volfin, I am sorry but you are mistaken, Lady Luna made twelve dresses last year using my meshes. It is mentioned quite clearly above. You really have to read the whole post and not just the last few entries. What is a "prig"? Is that an insult? http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ezForm.ShowMessage=1047633

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Prig, n. 1. originally, any person regarded with dislike. 2. a person who affects great preciseness or propriety in matters of learning or morals, to the annoyance of others; a smug, pedantic person. --Websters New Twentieth Century Dictonary Unabridged Second Edition 1968 The word for today.

Anton, have a look at this pic and you will see my action on this 'hairy' situation

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

Okay so it was meant as a put down. I just don't want my work given away for free. I also don't want to be made fun of by someone who won't stop saying he "loves me like a sister". Losing your hard work wears on your nerves when it happens over and over again. As does having people judge you for trying to protect your work and others. I personally have strong views on certain things. I think stealing is wrong. I also think forum bullies are a bad thing. I don't think that makes me a "prig". I am sure people are annoyed when they get caught doing something wrong. Mabey it does but I don't care.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

sigh...as usual the thread degenerates into bickering, name calling, childish rants, and attacks.

As for VS and Anton...You couldn't just let it go could you VS! Anton stopped after I spoke to him...when are you gonna learn that sometimes it's better to just leave well enough alone and retain your credibility (which, by the way, you just blew!). You 2 seem to be on the verge of TOS violations for personal attacks...Spike has already made his "cautions" post! Carry on at your own risk!

The way this appears is a no-brainer. Lady Luna, for whatever reason, has been posting copyrighted material in Freestuff. She should be banned...no debate...no excuses...end of story!

Anton, I know you have been hit hard by warez of your products, but not everyone is "out to ruin you". An email to the Admins of Freestuff and an email to the "poster" to cease and desist should have been your first step in this new case with your "Magic" hair. Sometimes you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.

The same with the Vicky .obj files in Freestuff, an email to the Admins would have dealt with the situation. They are normally responsive and deal with removing the "offending" material relatively quickly. It's a good bet the "offender" didn't even realize he was commiting an "offense". It appears there is a language barrier, and last I heard DAZ EULA's weren't distributed in multiple languages (although they should consider that).

Maybe you should be less concerned with how much income you're losing and more concerned with how many people you may be alienating with the way you handle these situations.

Charlie, :) Thanks.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

you know- i was thinking of using this thread to point out something to a young artist i am working with (age 13, my son) to clarify a point i have been trying to make for the last 3 months. Kinda shot down that idea right about post 64 sigh oh and the banner that popped up. I was thinking of just copy pasting this into another prog to show him but it wouldn't have the same effect. Ah well another learning opportunity lost...

I'm loath to step into this since Spike is obviously dealing here, but he quite clearly said "Please stick to the point at hand!" and that's been broadly ignored by some. This is a serious issue, and allowing it to degenerate into bickering makes it seem less important than it is. Kevin.

Amen Kevin!

illusion, This problem just continues over and over again. The links are always removed but only after thousands of downlowds have occured. The current process of handling this stuff isn't working. As you can see in the images and links, I can post side-by-sides, comparisons, etc and people still try to say I might be wrong. And that defending my work makes be petty. This is how I made my living. I can't just let these things slide. What Lady Luna did completely killed that product. Anyone who has downloaded Warez has seen my files. I just don't have the luxury of just "forgetting" it. Sean baits me every chance he gets. That is what I was refering to earlier and why I snapped at him. If is hard enough to show where theft is occuring without someone walking in trying to say "you don't know what you are talking about" just to setting a grudge. If some of you have never had this problem I can see where you wouldn't understand.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

when are you gonna learn that sometimes it's better to just leave well enough alone and retain your credibility (which, by the way, you just blew!). If I did, so be it. Your post came in as I was writing mine, so I didn't see yours in advance. Mea maxima culpa. But let's face it: this thing started off fine, then got downright stupid. And I'm getting a little tired of seeing accusations of copyright violation thrown around like rice at a Catholic wedding. Sheessh.

PheonixRising: "This problem just continues over and over again. The links are always removed but only after thousands of downlowds have occured. The current process of handling this stuff isn't working."

If it's not pointed out to them until thousands of downloads have occured, it's not their fault. If they are delaying dealing with it once it's been pointed out to them, that's different. Once this kind of accusation is made, the item should immediately be pulled. This is Freestuff, not the Marketplace, so the person that uploaded it doesn't stand to lose anything if the item is pulled until the issue can be settled. Infact, all Admin/Mods should be given the ability to pull an item out of Freestuff so that this kind of issue can be dealt with immediately (there is usually 1 Mod or Admin hanging around most times).

PhoenixRising: "Sean baits me every chance he gets."

Me: That's no excuse...stop biting the hook! :^)

"Me: That's no excuse...stop biting the hook!" hrmm maybe i WILL bring my kid in to read this LOL

VirtualSite: "But let's face it: this thing started off fine, then got downright stupid."

Me: Why contribute to the "stupidity"...you started off just fine...you should have quit while you were ahead...or at least tried to keep your comments "on topic" ;^)

VirtualSite: "And I'm getting a little tired of seeing accusations of copyright violation thrown around like rice at a Catholic wedding. Sheessh."

Me: Well it appears there may be some truth to these "accusations". So far, what I have seen in this post and the other, related post, appear to back up what Anton has been saying. I don't necessarily approve of the way he handles things, but I do have sympathy for his plight.

Sean, I have shown side by side renders. I have shown screen captures. I have not made anything up. Your comments would be valid under different circumstances but not here. You always do the same thing. You rush into a post and make some outrageous remarks, then spend the rest of the post back-peddling, watering down what you previously said, trying to show people how they misunderstood you. That tactic is getting just as tiresome and obvious. Illusion: If you want to ignore someone who attacks you that is your right. I choose not to if the person won't stop after I have asked them to stop. That is my right.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

The readme for the Maiko file appears to be written by a non-native English speaker. There is a possibility that the legal info that gets discussed here, as well as the technical distribution info, may be beyond their grasp of the language.

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

Just to clarify: all mods and admins can pull a Freestuff item if need be. Contacting any of us who are online when something like this crops up is always the best place to start.

"If they are delaying dealing with it once it's been pointed out to them, that's different." It's also 'different' when the admin permit an offender to retain access to the site so they can repeat offend. I'm not in favour of a 'one strike and you're out' policy (leaves no room for innocent mistakes), but after one clear warning there can be no excuse. And yet it appears there can be here...

I still feel that a new process of submission is needed. Lady Luna's first batch of 12 dresses wasn't brought to my attention until three months had past. Catching the most recent one she did was just a fluke that I saw it. Many items get hundred of downloads in the first couple days. The process isn't working. If there would be better guidelines and restictions posted as they upload then there would be no reason for any second offenses.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

This is the only text shown to people when they upload: -------------------------------------------------------- Please feel free upload your own creations to the Free Stuff Pages NOTE: Due to the huge amount of bandwidth this site pulls, file uploading has been disabled. You must find another site to actually host the files and just link to them here. Thumbnail: Your thumbnail should be 200x200. Nudity: If your thumbnail contains nudity, please check the appropriate box below. Failure to do so may result in your upload being removed. Commercial Use: If you wish to allow others to use your item for commercial use, then check the appropriate box below. Item Type: If your item does not require any additional 3rd party software purchase (Stand Alone), then check the appropriate box below. If your item is dependent upon a 3rd party software (Add-On), then leave this box unchecked. ----------------------------------------------------------- There should be rules and guidelines crearly explaining what is and not acceptable along with the consequences that go with a violation.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Not to mention the fact that though Lady Luna may have takin out Antons part of the original mesh she is still useing the original thumbnail of the warez mesh and that in its self is pretty insulting twords Anton and kind of another slap in the face. Granted this may not have been Lady Luna's intention but it was in pretty bad taste to even post anything resembling that meash here.

On a less serious note - that hair would be good for one thing, making a female version of Don King :-)

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

The rest of it make for pretty hair though. :)

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

will be adding the magik set to the sizable list of stuff I'll be getting from DAZ next week :-)

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

Anton, your idea that some rules and guidelines should be on the upload screen is a good one. A well worded warning may catch the eye of those who mean well and just don't know. It also looks worse when there's no warning. Well, interesting thread. Hey, I have an idea, how about a render of everyone kissing and making up. It would fit with the Valentines theme!

I do think that with guidelines clearly posted at upload there should be no 2nd chance. If all the guidelines are clearly written before upload then there is no reason why even a first offense should occur. If people coose not to read the guidelines that is there own resposibity. If not then each upload should count as an offense and not just each time they get caught.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I think it's impossible to check every free stuff item. Look at the delay's in getting stuff up in the MP and that's stuff R'osity has an internst in getting up there. I do have an idea for a halfway solution though. Make Free Stuff more like the Marketplace. Treat every free stuff item as a zero cost sale. This would let R'osity and the free stuff distributor keep a record of who downloaded what and when. In the even of a Warez problem, a message could be sent to all the downloaders informing them, and it would keep a record of of losses for some one like Anton to use against the Pirate. It would also open up the opertunity to some welcome Free Stuff improvments. Like adding preview renders and a REAL product description. Something more than just a thumbnail. You could still require the user to link to their own server space for both the file, and the previews while only increasing the overhead of server space used at Rosity by a small amount. I personally hate having to download something just to see what it looks like. I would welcome a more verbose product description. It would also make offenders easier to catch. I would also like to see an optional download limit so a user doesn't bang the free stuff providers bandwidth to death.

That isn't a bad idea. I always hated downloading something just to find it was only a texture. But that would mean that they would have to wipe FreeStuff clean and start over. Since Freestuff generates most of the traffic here I don't think that would ever happen. But something has to change for sure.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

There is also a language and cultural problem here. Perhaps these warnings could be available for download in different languages. Have you ever purchased something to find that instructions were in Japanese only. Consider how it might be for someone who doesn't speak or understand American and downloads something from this site or from Daz, or most sites for that matter. Efforts should be made to better communicate with each other. It's easy to get a lynching party together and sully someone's reputation on the net. Take your contentions to Court, however, and odds are you will be laughed out of there. You can't prove intent if you didn't communicate the rules to the buyer (defendant) in his or her language and in a clear fashion. Good luck, Q

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

Anton, Luna did not kill your product... Have you seen how much of yours is being traded p2p these days??? Why do you only get loud when you believe one of yours has been violated, I never saw you defend other merchants who get ripped off, maybe even more than you are! I am not condoning warez or p2p, but if you insist on getting personal in an open forum, you cast a very bad light on DAZ right now as its employee. Look at Kupa and Dan, who do NOT get this hot and loud here... and stand to lose a lot more money than YOU ever will! And you never got Laura banned from here, she caused more damage than Luna.

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

You're talking about manpower though, rattler. Ultimately, extra manpower will have to take place, but how will that be offset? Paid help? Volunteers? Will that stifle the uploads to the freestuff? And what if a mesh gets by the screener? Imagine having to check every clothing mesh against every known sale item from every known site! It has to be checked manually. I doubt there's a program out there that will compare .obj files to determine if they are similar (though some enterprising developer might one day come up with a checker). I think it should be up to the creators to verify if the obj is the same or not. After all, the person who made it will know what to look for. So would DAZ and RDNA and yada yada care to review every obj before its OK to post in the free stuff? Would a poster have any reason to expect that their obj would be reviewed any time prior to the year 3000? Easiest thing is to give a warning on the upload page and act when violations are reported.

I agree that there is little that Renderosity can proactively do about this issue. "Auditing" the uploads would be next to impossible as Rendo does not have access to every product that is out there. Imagine trying to compare all swords to each other!!!! The best that they can do is develop a policy and apply it consistently. This includes immediate removal of links from the download page; a specific, written policy that is on the download front page; the immediate and absolute banning of users that have been caught violating the terms (no one-strike, two strikes. In the real world, if you are caught stealing, you more than likely do some time). This includes "family and friends" of those who work and administer this site, as the community is rather large and, at one time, a hell of a lot closer. Keeping a profile log of all who upload is both fruitless and pointless. How can they verify a person's identity, especially over the Internet? You kill the free stuff, and you likely impact the overall community, including individual creativity. This MUST happen, otherwise, Rendo could be subject to a legal challenge by warez artist. If the above is not done and complied with, Rendo could face a willful abetting charge, as the issue has been brought to their attention many times, and they, to this point, have not addressed it.

Anton- You have every right to rant about this. It is a can of worms, isn't it!

PheonixRising: "If you want to ignore someone who attacks you that is your right. I choose not to if the person won't stop after I have asked them to stop."

Me: As far as I'm concerned you 2 can have at it until the cows come home or you get banned for TOS violations...which will probably be soon based on the attacks you 2 are lobbing at each other.

PheonixRising: "I still feel that a new process of submission is needed. Lady Luna's first batch of 12 dresses wasn't brought to my attention until three months had past."

Me: For the record, Freestuff isn't "submitted", it's not stored on Renderosity's servers. It's not Renderosity's responsibility to download and check every mesh to see if it's legal...and I see no reason to make it their responsibility! Sorry about your losses Anton. Gee, since your stuff is so widely pirated, perhaps it would be in your best interest to download every item posted in the Freestuff on every site in the community and compare it to your meshes so that you can catch it sooner!

PheonixRising: "If there would be better guidelines and restictions posted as they upload then there would be no reason for any second offenses."

Me: There are guidelines...as to restrictions...as long as the items and their thumbs fall within the TOS that's the only restriction that should be required.

EricofSD: "Easiest thing is to give a warning on the upload page and act when violations are reported."

Me: Sounds fair to me Eric!

ryamka: "The best that they can do is develop a policy and apply it consistently. This includes immediate removal of links from the download page; a specific, written policy that is on the download front page; the immediate and absolute banning of users that have been caught violating the terms (no one-strike, two strikes."

Me: I agree, that's a sensible solution.

Since the items in question are not "warez" per se, but cut and pasted pieces of copyright material disguised as original creations, and since the items are not stored on Renderosity's servers I don't see this falling under the same category as pure "warez" and don't think this site should be or would be held responsible for such items. The same holds true for 3D Arena, 3DC, Renderotica, PoserPros or any other site that hosts freestuff or links to freestuff.

Although I have sympathy for your plight Anton, and agree that anyone redistributing copyrighted material without permission should be banned when caught...I don't feel it's Renderosity's responsibility to screen every item and check it for legality. Once Renderosity is alerted, removes the item, and bans the poster...it becomes an issue between you and the thief. I realize that you have found your items being blatently traded on p2p and that has impacted your profits, but that is not the problem you have here.

Personally, after seeing your behavior and your attacks on others that have posted...I'm surprised you haven't been banned for TOS violations as a result of personal attacks (oh...and just for the record...the same goes for VirtualSite). Maturity, civility, and manners are good business traits...I haven't seen much of that.

That's my 2 cents!

Hello, I'm agreed with Anton's complains about this issue, if someone steals others work and post it as this issue probes I think someone in Renderosity's team is not doing the work of checking free stuff posts, I know that there is imposible to verify one by one all the files which are posted ad free stuff, but if you got a fair complain which shows you solid proofs as Anton did, I agree that the TOS has to be aplied without remorse. I do belive that artists must show solidarity when someone is trying to screw one of the artists of this community, specially an artist like Anton, who have given too much for the poser community via his freebies and commercial models. Anton you have all my solidarity and I second your petition to Renderosity's team to aply the full penalty which is settled at the TOS. The TOS can't be aplied by convenience, there is not space for interpretations, it is very clear about this kind of issues, on the other hand the ignorance of the law don't is not a excuse to violate it, and here are serious copyright violations. Renderosity has a good shield because they don't store the files which are offered at the free stuff area, but they provide the links to get those files, so this problem affects Renderosity site too. My advise to Renderosity's team is to take important actions to void issues like this one in the future, the years which has been taken to renderosity to make a solid reputation trough the 3D community could be trowing to the trash in few days, if the TOS is not aplied. Don't take me wrong, I just hate when a good reputed artist is ripped off by people without ethics. Virus

SAL9000 - Hello Dr. Chandra, Will I've dream?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=970465

I believe that stealing and warezing is seriously wrong. I've complained about it before, and have made efforts to be sure that what I have on my computers is ok. I've paid out thousands of dollars to lawyers to protect my copyrights, and I've been deposed to protect the rights of others. That being said, I have also been ignored. Sharp-eyed members can do more than a handful of moderators when it comes to spotting things which look "iffy", but once an alert is put up, moderators ought to look into things. Is obfuscate still a member? Are all 13 of "his" items still here in Free Stuff. Maybe Epic will slap down a gnat, and maybe they won't... but I wouldn't want to be the one who admitted publicly that the mesh was taken directly out of a game by "a friend of a friend of a friend". He didn't show much remorse when I called him on the theft, either. (link) He even added to the lot. However, he knows that what he has done is illegal... and the fact that he went back and changed all the names to "looks like" instead of removing the items, just confirms his guilt and his obstinancy. The case with the Maiko morph is different. I don't have it, or Vicky 3 for that matter, but strongly suspect that if somebody explained to the morph-maker that he needed to encode the file properly, he would be embarrassed and perhaps even glad for the explanation of how to do it and the opportunity to fix it. Those lines from the readme up there indicate that he assumes that you need to have purchased the original from DAZ in order to use his morphs for her face. It smells like a language barrier, not like an attempt to rip off anybody or pass off the work of others as his own. Because we do have newcomers and people who don't speak English much less legalese, I can't endorse slapping somebody down and banning them for something they can't know and don't understand. I would recommend that when a trespass occurs, that somebody official speak to the member (and find a translator if necessary!). The item can be removed while it is being questioned and fixed. If a person repeats the mistake or is obstinate and truculent... THEN ban him or her. Carolly

Distributing OBJ files without encoding them is a violation of Daz EULA, the Renderosity TOS per add-on for free stuff. it's warez pure and simple. OBJ file is simply source code of the model, distribution of that is illegal unless the downloader has bought the obj file and it's varifyed (re encoded freebie). The person distributing the freebie is in volation, as are the downloaders, even if the downloaders have no idea they are in possesion of stolen items. Renderosity can be held acountable (must as Napster was) for providing the means for the illegal transaction to happen. Anybody that makes items be it for purchase or as freebies needs to police their items, as well as the site "sponsoring" those items. Anton is policeing his items, I'm suprised that more content creators have not chimed in on this thread saying ME TOO! Maybe they don't care, maybe they don't know. However Anton is not the only content creator being violated, there are several images in freebie that have been grabbed from product pages, items that are 'similar' to marketted items, as anton has pointed out several times. With the amount of money that is being lost, the number of members of renderosity downloading these items (6k! wow), even at a dollar a pop your talkin about grand theft, felony copyright violations. serious stuff. needs to be addressed as serious stuff and not as one content creator moaning about his losses of sales. At 6k of downloads thats MONTHS of rent money that could have been gotten through sales. it's serious, and I don't think anybody should take it so lightly as to brush it off as a content creator moaning. As far as keeping information private, if action has been taken and a viloation has happened, then that information NEEDS to be shared. 6 thousand people have an illegal item on their hard drives and may not know. How this is addressed I don't know, it's not my JOB to know, it's renderosity's job, and it has to be let known when an illegal action has taken place as to inform the renderosity members. I now have to go through 6 CDs and verify and delete items that may be a violation and get me in trouble if I use them. I'm hurt as a member here because my time is lost. I'm glad that Anton has brought it up, I'm glad that Renderosity is trying to do something about it, more on the issue needs to be done. my 2 cents, and it was hard getting them.

Illusions, I hate tp disagree with you, but there is no difference between this and warez. Think of the anology of sampling, where musicians used to take pieces of another song and use it for loops in their own music. Every court in the US would slap that down as stealing, and have done so. Consistently. As a mesh is a copyrighted object by default, the same principles apply. It is stealing, pure and simple.

hmatienzo, I have not seen Peer to peer but you seem to. I never got any heads up from you about any of my files there either. As far as Lady Luna ruining sales of the dresses, you are absolutely mistaken. At the time I checked and sales droped 50% after the date she released all 12 desses. They died quickly after that cause some of the dresses were almost exactly like mine. This is about warez in freestuff. I generally don't comment on other members personally or offer career advice and would appreciate the same respect. No offense intended. It kinda bugs me when people tell me I don't know what I am talking about after i have looked into it and researched it. Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Anton, quite a few people here browse p2p regularly, and many a screenshot has been posted already. I'll IM you in a sec, this is not for public eyes.

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

freeStuff issue.. Yes if caught warezing someone's product in any way shape or form should be a bannable offense and done immediately once found out. VS vs Anton.. ummm PRO's do it in email guy's.. Anton remember you represent not just yourself but Daz as well. None of us really care about what goes on and you BOTH can choose to ignore each other or not. P2P - "I have not seen Peer to peer but you seem to. I never got any heads up from you about any of my files there either." Daz is and has been aware of this. Since most of your products have been available through them I think most people assumed you knew. I thought that. Anton, You are right to be pissed about this issue. I don't think anyone has said or implyed that you aren't right. I can understand your frustration. BUT... I think the problem you are running into here is most people assume that you would be and act proffessional in your communications and unfortunantly right now that's not how it sounds. The PTB's can only do so much, and they are working on it, but you are going to have to Shrugs for lack of better wording. work within their timeline.

" Make Free Stuff more like the Marketplace. Treat every free stuff item as a zero cost sale. This would let R'osity and the free stuff distributor keep a record of who downloaded what and when. In the even of a Warez problem, a message could be sent to all the downloaders informing them, and it would keep a record of of losses for some one like Anton to use against the Pirate. It would also open up the opertunity to some welcome Free Stuff improvments. Like adding preview renders and a REAL product description. Something more than just a thumbnail. You could still require the user to link to their own server space for both the file, and the previews while only increasing the overhead of server space used at Rosity by a small amount. " actually, make it so free stuff is ONLY available through the Marketplace, as a zero cost item. with marketplace testing done on all of it. that would end the warez issues right quick. would also mean that there would not be a poorly documented or described item in the free stuff, it will be set up properly.

No offense guys but enough with the career advice. i don't comment on your lives and stuff so please do the same with me. VS wants to give me a hard time I am going to have something to say about it. Very few things get me annoyed. Stealing and name calling are two of them. Unsolicited personal advice is ranking a high third lately. If profesional means using IM and email and just ignoring the problem hoping other people will fix it, well that didn't work with any of the situations above. Don't be so quick to judge me if you don't know what I have gone through or done to clear up these matters. If people insult me personally I will respond. If someone steals from me I will tell others about it. I am just a person like anyone else. I either stay as I am or I don't post at all. And if people want to keep bringing up who I work for everytime I have an opinion it looks like not posting at all. If you have a personal insight you want to share with me you also could use email or IM. No offense but now I'm getting ticked off again.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I'm not sure about that Jaqui, I'd rather know that something I'm going to pay for has been tested thoroughly rather than skipped through quickly because the testing queue was so large... and the last I heard the queue was quite large. It is a problem, there's no doubt, and Anton is right to be upset about it, though it may have been better taken care of through personal correspondence with the site admin. That being said, it doesn't seem fair to punish the majority of honest freestuff providers for the actions of a few, especially when the provider pays for the bandwidth of their downloads. Quite a can of worms here.... sigh

What we do in life, echoes in eternity.

E-mail | Renderosity Homepage | Renderosity Store | RDNA Store

I guess the next step is to wait and see what the Rendo staff come up with. Anton, if it continues to be a problem, you always have the legal recourse. Especially if they do not act once the issue made known to them... Here are a few intesrting quotes the DMCA: For purposes of the first limitation, relating to transitory communications, service provider is defined in section 512(k)(1)(A) as an entity offering the transmission, routing, or providing of connections for digital online communications, between or among points specified by a user, of material of the users choosing, without modification to the content of the material as sent or received. For purposes of the other three limitations, service provider is more broadly defined in section 512(k)(l)(B) as a provider of online services or network access, or the operator of facilities therefor. ME: Um, this is Rendo!!!! In addition, to be eligible for any of the limitations, a service provider must meet two overall conditions: (1) it must adopt and reasonably implement a policy of terminating in appropriate circumstances the accounts of subscribers who are repeat infringers; and (2) it must accommodate and not interfere with standard technical measures. (Section 512(i)). Standard technical measures are defined as measures that copyright owners use to identify or protect copyrighted works, that have been developed pursuant to a broad consensus of copyright owners and service providers in an open, fair and voluntary multi-industry process, are available to anyone on The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 reasonable nondiscriminatory terms, and do not impose substantial costs or burdens on service providers. ME: This IS NOT Rendo, at this time...

Ok I am calm again. :) Thanks for the info. lately the admins have been great about handling this stuff. They do look into it and they do remove the links. I think my frustrations is just that, by then, it is too late. And currently there is no way to prevent the situations from repeating. Sorry if I am a bit touchy right now. Just way too much, off topic advice and jabs in one day, to absorb. I'lll leave the post now and wait to see what happens. Everyone keep your fingures crossed. Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Well, I can tell you from personal expereince, much of what Daz provides appears in the P2P environment, as well as Usenet. I work in the 3D app industry, and my company produces applications and plugins for other applications, some available commercially and others are purchased by the big guys and used in their apps. I can tell you for a fact, one thing that we do is keep track of the amount of piracy that occurs of our apps. Where possible, we contact the user's domain and have their account shut down under threat of law. Yeah, we know it does no good as there are 100 for every one we shut down. However, now we have a new tool, at least for us. While copy protection can be cracked, we have developed little programs that go in and put identifiers in the applications. These identifiers can be likened to ID numbers. They are all the same size and made up of the same characters so that if any warez kiddie tries to search for it, any differences between a legal copy from X and a legal copy from Y will CRC out to be the same, ie no difference. So we can then obtain copies of the app or plugin from the Internet, and trace the ID number back to the person/Company to whom the app was originally sold. The warez kiddies have no tools to track down the identifiers among all the rest of the code, and we can pinpoint the leaks and deal with the "leaking party" personally. Usually this is in the form of a strong suggestion to pay for additional licenses or suffer the invalidation of their current licenses or legal action. It sucks, but hey you have to at least try. Hopefully this sight will come up with a GOOD policy, not just A policy, and they will be covered for all intents and purposes. It would be shame for this site to be hit by severe legal actions. - Ray

MachineClaw stated: *"Distributing OBJ files without encoding them is a violation of Daz EULA, the Renderosity TOS per add-on for free stuff.

it's warez pure and simple. OBJ file is simply source code of the model, distribution of that is illegal unless the downloader has bought the obj file and it's varifyed (re encoded freebie). The person distributing the freebie is in volation, as are the downloaders, even if the downloaders have no idea they are in possesion of stolen items."*

Well then I have heaps of Warez on my machine. I have loads and loads of MORPHS which are all .obj's. There is and must be a difference between a whole figure and for instance the NOSE or the EARS stored in a morph file. If not then I really do not understand anything anymore. But then again... perhaps I don't.

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

Morph obj files are fine if they contain only vertex data (mashed, so to speak). If that is not the case, then they should not be distributed by their creator, unless the creator also owns the rights to the original model on which the morphs are based.

judith, to not hurt the marketplace putting free stuff through same process, would require an increase in testers for testing the free stuff. as it currently sits, there are frquently items in free stuff that are not worth downloading, as the product quality is not where it should be for use. or the paths point outside of poser directory, and the targeted texture wasn't included. ( seen that one several times ) besides clearing up small things like that, the testing would give the stie a chance to make sure that the free item in question is not a warez item. ( though it doesn't guarantee none will slip past, we all are human and make mistakes ) I was just putting an idea out, for concideration, after all none of us wants anything we make to be warezed ( it is and we want it stopped just like Anton does ) and unless we can come up with a livable solution, we will be left with either no change or whatever solution the satff here chooses. our input might be ignored, but then again it might be the solution chosen. if we don't make suggestions where all can see it, then no-one can comment and help improve and idea or actually shut it down. ( if it's that bad an idea, like doing nothing to stop warez )

ryamka: "I hate tp disagree with you, but there is no difference between this and warez."

Me: You must have misunderstood me...I did not condone what these people are doing by manipulating others copyrighted material and posting it. I did not mean to give the impression that I felt it was legal, or should be ignored...indeed not, theft is theft. What I was attempting to explain was that Renderosity should not be held responsible for this illegal activity of others since the activity itself is not blatent, but disguised. Having Renderosity screen Freestuff is burdensome...Even the DMCA, as you pointed out, does not require sites to take such extreme measures. It clearly only requires "service providers" to not interfere with the technical measures copyright holders use to identify or protect their works and to terminate the accounts of subscribers that are repeat offenders.

PheonixRising: If profesional means using IM and email and just ignoring the problem hoping other people will fix it, well that didn't work with any of the situations above."

Me: Nobodys says you should ignore the problem Anton...just that you should present yourself in an adult and mature fashion...that's part of what being professional means!

ryamka posted: "Here are a few intesrting quotes the DMCA: For purposes of the first limitation, relating to transitory communications, service provider is defined in section 512(k)(1)(A) as an entity offering the transmission, routing, or providing of connections for digital online communications, between or among points specified by a user, of material of the users choosing, without modification to the content of the material as sent or received. For purposes of the other three limitations, service provider is more broadly defined in section 512(k)(l)(B) as a provider of online services or network access, or the operator of facilities therefor. ME: Um, this is Rendo!!!!" I have to disagree. This clearly describes an internet service provider (such as AOL or Earthlink). Renderosity doesn't provide network access nor do they provide connections for digital online communications. not to mention it's quoted out of context.

I also have to comment on the suggestions that freestuff be put into the Marketplace. Renderotica attempted to put about 16 free items into the marketplace for a period of three days as a promotion. It brought their website to a standstill. I don't think it would be wise to freeze up Renderosity with the thousands of freestuff downloads that occur daily (maybe hourly??).

Oh gosh, Fyre's going to try to be a voice of reason. Run for the hills. Let's be honest, testing of freestuff items just isn't practical. Dozens are uploaded every day. I read Anton's suggestion as more of documenting the downloads, although I may have misunderstood. Note the user who downloads the item. If an item is later found to be non-kosher, an e-mail can be sent to everyone who downloaded it warning them, and the list could be used as evidence of potential lost sales. Perhaps that could even be done silently behind the current set-up. User name is logged when you click the download button. It wouldn't be perfect, since sometimes the download fails or the button may take you to webpage where you download a few other things while there, but it could be a start. I don't know if the storage requirements would be prohibitive, though. And of course, Renderosity would have to keep this information confidential and for these anti-warez purposes only. I don't want spam saying "Hey, you downloaded my freebie, I bet you'd like to buy my product." I definitely agree that Renderosity should put better guidelines on the upload page. Let's be honest, the general population is very confused about copyright law. Many people think there is a 10%/50%/X% rule (if you change X%, then it's yours), that unsquished objs are all right, etc. Flat out say on the page what is and isn't OK, i.e. items must be entirely of your creation, have the permission of the original creator, or be encoded; morphs must be in injection poses or squished; and so on.

You always do the same thing. You rush into a post and make some outrageous remarks, then spend the rest of the post back-peddling, watering down what you previously said, trying to show people how they misunderstood you. That tactic is getting just as tiresome and obvious Listen, my delicate little hot house flower, my "outrageous" remarks simply showed the silliness of your claim when you started hauling in those morphs and claiming them as copyright infringement. And if there was any backpedaling in this thread, I'd damn sure like to see it, because it didn't come from me. So here's how it goes, gang. I like Anton's work. I've said so on several occasions, although he was usually too wrapped up in his own blinding brilliance to notice. But when he screws up and starts making wild accusations of deliberate infringement, then I'm gonna call him on it, just as we all should with anyone who's doing this. The rules on this stuff are so fuzzy now, between pcf encoding and DAZ doing a double-back on cr2 distribution as well as the Poser manual itself going into detail of how to make clothing from a body mesh, that I'd be more willing than not to cut some people a little slack when things like the Magic Hair appears. I'm not saying the prop should continue to be in Freestuff, but these wholesale calls for pitchforks and torches as we storm the monster's castle are unnecessary and uncalled for. And when morph files are hauled in as additional "proof" of infringement... well, then it's time someone was sat down and explained a few things. So sorry to burst this bubble of yours, Mister Anton, but no, I'm not "trolling" your beloved thread. I'm damn sure not backpedaling either. You messed up on this one, and someone needed to tell you. Yeah, the stuff with Luna was a bad thing and should be followed up on... and I suggest you do as you once claimed you would do to me: get on a plane, fly to wherever she is, hire a lawyer, and sue the pants off her (and yeah, folks, that's exactly what the Great Anton said he would do, over a spectacularly trivial and meaningless gallery image that Anton took enormous umbrage to and ultimately forced the PTB to pull down, even though it was about as offensive as a Family Circus cartoon). I'm sorry that you've been the object of creative theft once again, but you're not the first. You won't be the last. And innocent mistakes are gonna be made, whether you find them "stupid" or not. That's it for me, folks. I'm outa this one.

Let me suggest the absolute minimum this site needs to do is have a statement something like this on the upload page. ****************************************************** By putting this file in Freestuff you are stating that it is 100% your original work, or includes other items used with explicit permission of the genuine original creator, under penalty of permanent banning from this site. Original work will not include: Any figure, mesh or morphs made by combining or modifying mesh created by others, or morphs created by others, by any method. Any texture map that uses any part of another texture map. Please note permission cannot be given to allow others to include your items in Freestuff unless they are 100% your original work. Ignorance about the origin of any item is not an excuse.

The only problem I see with your suggestion Jim, is that it does not take into account derivative work that is "encoded" making it useless unless you have the original mesh. The same with "squished" morphs, they could not be used without the original object, and neither could be reverse engineered.

The statement can't be too broad...but it shouldn't be too restrictive either. I mean...there are people here that will raise a ruckus if something doesn't match the "rules" letter for letter, just because they can! :^)

A couple of people have suggested a more explicit definition of what's acceptable for Free Stuff uploads on the upload page and I think it's a great idea. I pitched the idea to the other mods and admins to see what they say. Jim, yours is worded quite nicely and I used that as an example of what could work. Thanks!

When this site does something about Virtual Site once and for all I'll come back.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

A useful idea might be to add another 'page' with a brief note containing the info suggested above, such as what's allowed and what isn't, that someone actually has to agree to in-between clicking the upload button and actually being taken to the page where one can upload the information for the freebie. "I didn't know" is not necessarily an acceptable excuse, but if steps are taken to insure that everyone who uploads to freestuff has to go through a list of 'what constitutes copyright violations' then at least the admins and mods might have an easier job deciding when something is a simple mistake, and when something was done purposefully. In addition, adding a simple link at the bottom of such a page for one of the many web translators out there, or calling on the services of several of our international members to translate it into different versions could help clear up confusion for any members whose skills with the god-awfully complex English language are less than perfect. Adding other links to resources such as tutorials on how to pcf encode objects, what the heck 'morph squishing' is, etc could also help. Such an implementation might cut down on the number of 'unintended' copyright infringements. The addition of this would also perhaps relieve the minds of some mods and admins who might feel uneasy about whether or not there was a mistake and if punishment is deserved. If clear, concise information is provided to people, most will abide by it. For those who do not... well, that's what the TOS is for, yes?

I have to wonder if those who feel Anton is behaving in an unprofessional manner have stood in the presence of a CEO during a disappointing quarterly sales report. I fail to see how one's employment status precludes them from being human and displaying a little frustration.

hecate : That sounds like Good Idea and well thought out. Like FyreSpiryt mentioned there seems to be a common missunderstanding of people thinking they can use some or part of some one elses work and call it there own. Even so " I didnt know " is no excuse so makeing them click a "I Agree" would take that out of the problum and release renerosity of liability. Copyright issues concern all of us not just Anton and we all need to work togeather so the new blood coming in does not make the same mistakes.

Migal Said: "I have to wonder if those who feel Anton is behaving in an unprofessional manner have stood in the presence of a CEO during a disappointing quarterly sales report. I fail to see how one's employment status precludes them from being human and displaying a little frustration. " The key phrase is "a little frustration". That's not what we're seeing here. The CEO at my company is known for his bluntness and hot temper. And we make fun of him every chance we get (behind his back of course). That kind of behaviour can really undermine a person, and the company he represents.

shrug Doesn't bother me how Anton is acting. He's just like the rest of us no matter who he works for. And if VS was referring to me by those names I'd be offended too. Anton has asked him more than once to stop calling him by "pet" names, and not just here.

I thought about the Objaction encoding, in that case your "original" work is the changes in the figure, and the encoding is the method to insure that downloaders are only getting your original work (as they have to already have the starting point), so I think it fits O.K., without spelling that out. I also think it is more important to present a concept - you can only give away YOUR work as Freestuff - than get bogged down in 500 rules that sombody is going to find a way around anyway! ;-)

Anton: I'm 100% agreed with your complain and rant for this matter, but why turn your batteries to VS?? He is not the center of the problem over here, The problem is one member who is stealing your work, and that person will have the TOS aplied. But don't use VS as scape goat of all this issue IMHO. Come back and fight for your rights against piracy you know you are right about it and you have the support of Renderosity's team, so don't play the austrich game because you are not agreed with one coment.

SAL9000 - Hello Dr. Chandra, Will I've dream?

Hrms..... So a good addition to Jim's new rules would be: "By putting this file in Freestuff you are stating that it is 100% your original work, or includes other items used with explicit permission of the genuine original creator, under penalty of permanent banning from this site. Original work will not include: Any figure, mesh or morphs made by combining or modifying mesh created by others, or morphs created by others, by any method, with the exception of morph data encoded in such a way as to be unusable without the current ownership of the original file the morph data is encoded for" Is that clear enough?

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

in addition to Jim's post, to make things clear for non english members- when you get to the upload page- you have to click a button that would take you to a page that explains this in some one's native language- such as german french etc etc and you have to actually push an I agtree to these terms i do not agree to these terms button before you can access the actual page that allows uploading?

er sorry -Valendar's edit of Jim's post even ;P

"the silliness of your claim when you started hauling in those morphs and claiming them as copyright infringement. " I think you may have missed it but Anton has looked at the morphs and they include part of his morphs. In post 69 he said "The Brow Soften morph I made was used on these." You can't use someone else's morphs (or combinations of morphs) and then spawn your own morph/and or export an obj morph. Morphs are also copyrighted. FYI for anyone reading, how can you tell if your morph is used in combo? The deltas (the amount a vertex is moved to create the "morph") are numerical settings, just like poses and lights, etc. You don't just eyeball the result and say "hey, that looks like the nose I morphed." You need more proof than that :) Anton, you can also post your concern in the "forum news and team contact" forum: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357 -- the admins seem to pay attention a lot quicker there for big issues like this.

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a sweet disorder in the dress kindles in clothes a wantoness,
do more bewitch me than when art is too precise in every part

Here are some points to think over, Renderosity is a platform for people sharing 3d or poser interest we are talking here. People making free models motivates interest and more people to visit and also to buy stuffs. We should thank the staffs for their work rather than blame them. Rather than just a plain side of blaming others, why not think over some things like perhaps the models are too expensive, or why not release some low poly models for people to try. And the people in question are actually giving away as free rather than selling. They don't profit from it and are not redistributing the original models. The most if proven, then remove those models. No point blaming the staffs. If your item is good, people will buy them. Maybe out of the thousand download, some people already own the original stuff but just download for fun. Don't have to be so angry with such things, isn't it nice to know that so many people love your work?

Noone is blaming the staff. They have been great. Expecially Spike, Lyrra, and Crescent. Just need more precaustions for the future. Thanks again to them.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Lady Luna, A member of the MCPA (Mesh Copyright Preservation Association) would like to talk to you.

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

Admin said they are handling this... I believe it's time to take this private and off-list and stop the witch hunt. The most-hardened criminals get a fair trial and it's said to see that people here don't seem to believe in that basic right any more.

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

Yes, let's wait to hear the outcome of the discussion between PhoenixRising and admin. Let's leave this for now please and wait for a resolution. Kevin (kbennett) Forum Moderator

hmatienzo, This was not a witch hunt. Everyone mentioned here did exactly what I said they did. That was never in question. :) Unbelievable. 157 posts and some people still don't read or look at the pics. The matter is almost resolved. Only what to do about Lady Luna remains. But as I said the question of whether or not they did it wasn't even an issue.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Kevin, that pic is my final comment on this subject. I've made my few comments, most to the point one was WAY back on #85 the one showing the offending hair prop in the trash can. for me this thread is ended, no more comments will be made unless it's in ref to the MCPA pic.

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

Thread locked and taken to e-mail and IM. Thanks Spike

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour