We are reviewing the Ads currently in rotation right now. Banner Ads are ROS (Run of the Site) and can bee seen everywhere a member goes. Therefore we will be tightening down on what we will allow in Banner Ads and Front Page Article thumbs. We want members to be able to view the site in public places, at home with parents, in the work place, etc...without fear of a racy banner ad popping up on them. Banner Ads and Front Page Article thumbs can't have rear ends (Butts) or breasts showing since that is nudity. A rear end with a G string on is considered nudity. Breasts with tape on the nipples is considered nudity. We will be reviewing all banner ads. If you have a Banner Ad in rotation that is to racy for ROS we will remove it from rotation and notify you via E-Mail. You can then upload a replacement Banner Ad. We feel that this will be best for all members and merchants of this site. Thanks for your understanding. Renderosity Staff

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

Very good resolution Spike...Thanks to the Staff for working out an equitable solution.

We realy do care what the members say... No, Realy! We do...

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

Big hugs to ya Spike! Thanky, Thanky, Thanky, ~Jani :)

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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Yep, you really do Spike...can't spell worth a damn...but you really do care! :^)

"can't spell worth a damn." /me spells "w-o-r-t-h- -a- -d-a-m-n"

lolololol...you kill me Cheryle! (in a nice way of course) ;^)

know this, If you also ban nudity in the gallery you will lose many members

Davo: The PTB didnt say absolutely no nudity on this site, just in the places where everyone 'by everyone I mean members AND non-members' would be able to view it. like banner ads, and the front page Spike said in another thread that not everyone would be happy with the results, and Im sure there will be flames, but think about it for a moment.. Nobody got 'exactly' what they wanted, but it works out well for the entire community.. There will be bugs and kinks to be worked out over time Im sure, so it's not 'completely' over. After all, thats got to be a big undertaking for alot of people with different views to decide what stays up, and what doesnt I dont think you have to worry about this site 'going nudeless' as it draws alot of people, and revenue.. ~J

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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Damien: Nudity isnt banned from the galleries, there is a nudity filter in place there. As I stated above, nudity was NOT banned from this entire site, just the banner ads and front page where members, and also non-members could view it.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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I don't mind if Renderosity stops offensive banners, but I'd use a "banner nudity" or "banner torture" option to filter them out if they made it easy to do. It would probably be impossible for them to implement such a filter, though, because then clients would just choose not to view any banners at all.

While they're at it, Renderosity could also make some kind of "spell-check" banner option, because I've noticed many banners with typos in them. In those cases, I guess if the merchant is careless with something unimportant like grammar or spelling, then he or she is probably also careless with something important, like bugs in his or her product.

AMEN!

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

the power to choose whether this garbage gets shoved down your throats and leave those that want to see it get to choose too? Strange, this shoe just doesnt feel right on the other foot now does it Davo? As for this all being my fault, you oughta back up a step or 2..there were many more than just me who wanted 'filters for INDIVIDUALS'..As I stated in an earlier post..NOBODY GOT 'EXACTLY' WHAT THEY WANTED.. We asked for 'FILTERS' we got stricter rules on what could be posted in view of everyone. 99% of my clicks into marketplace here are based on banners alone, those merchants just lost out, So your saying that if you cant see nude ad banners, you just refuse to go into the marketplace?? thats just...N/M * You see, you opened the floodgate to more whiners* We're whiners now? Why? Because we asked for something? "well..sneer.. if you don't like it, you can go somewhere else".. How come I can't tell you the same thing? Ummmm, hello?..We were told this very thing over and again. it'll spill over into all other parts of the site If it does, then that, like this decision.. is up to the PTB.. If this sites owners and staff decided to make this a total nude environment, those of us who prefered something else, would have no 'choice' but to either deal with it, or move on. If nothing had been done in this situation, then we 'who prefer not to see it' would have had to make a 'choice' of either leaving this site, or taking other steps if we chose to remain, in order to not see it. So it IS about choices of a sort. I think this situation was handled nicely, no matter what the outcome. ~Jani

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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"then tell the PTB to be fair to everybody and implement the filters instead. Will you do that?" You can ask too, in fact i think you just did. Your anger may be justified but it is misdirected. "We asked for 'FILTERS' we got stricter rules on what could be posted in view of everyone."-(jumpstartme2) So you can feel free to ask them yourself. ..."you opened the floodgate to more whiners, ..." well you seem to be doing some of that yourself- again direct your questions to those who can impliment change. "And you didn't get the message?.." Apparently you missed a few messages yourself.

Why is 'sexy' synonymous with 'nudity'?

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

WAR IS GOOD, NUDITY IS EVIL

Stupidity also evolves!

Well, I can see endless arguments about borderline cases -- too much cleavage, too-tight bodysuits etc. etc. -- going on ad infinitum now with regard to banners. I'm just glad I model things, not people ;) Mick.

Now those merchants who rely on their sexy advertising and banners have just lost an advertising method that works best for them and believe you me they ARE gnashing their teeth in the merchant forum.* Im sorry that 'some' of the merchants are upset, but again.. it wasnt my decision. The banner ads just have to cover the nudity if you read the other threads, we were upset over more than just the nudity, but one takes what one can get ~shrug~ Im sure this uneasy thread has been read by an admin or 2 already, so after 15 days of asking for SOMETHING to be done, it was done.. No point in us asking again.. YOU may however ask the PTB for a change in ruling and Im sure there will be a few who will 'jump on the wagon' As for 'And you didnt get the messege?'..As Cheryle said.. you missed a few messeges yourself. ~J

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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My suggestion, at this point, is to email admin@renderosity.com and state your case regarding the need for filters. I strongly suggest you leave out "bitching", "whining", "moaning", or any other form of complaining and simply point out the benefit of filters to the merchants, the members, and the Marketplace. This is not to say that the need for banner and Marketplace thumb filters should not be discussed in the forums...email just adds a bit more emphasis to the need. Remember, you are more than just a member...you are a customer or a potential customer for the Marketplace also!

and come up with a method for non-members, not logged in to have the filter for nudity active on banners. since you don't have to be logged in to get banners.

Actually, I made a suggestion in the post regarding banners in the Community Ideas Forum that the "cookie" might be used to do that.

only 2 small issues with that in and of itself, 1 then the cookie is getting bigger, which slows the site down, as it has to parse the data in it before anything goes anywhere. 2 some people don't have cookies enabled.

That's the only thing I could think of without them having to change the code on every page that a non-member can access. The pages non-members can access are the same pages that members can access, so unless they build separate non-member pages and add a gateway leading to the member area, the only solution I can think of would be a "cookie". Maybe someone else has an idea.

will you people be happy with just this banner decision? I think the banner decision is fine, although I would prefer an overall filter for nudity that affects the entire site, including banners. Its the larger agenda here I have a problem with, though. Now the puritans have a taste of victory, I'm sure we will see more pressure to get their way in the galleries and MP, (and they DO actively complain about the gallery and MP content, and consistently misportray it as well) the mostly forum-silent, actively art-posting and marketplace buying majority will find a new place to start buying and posting once they feel the squeaky non-Renderosity supportive Puritan wheels got all the grease... I hope Renderosity understands this - the majority of their active members don't support this minority Puritan agenda. And I hope they understand, artistic nudity is not pornography. This banner rule would ironically ban even artworks in the style of such pictures like Botticelli's Birth of Venus from banners, which you can view in yes, any art textbook. The rule is rather silly. I think you need to look at nudity divorced from the sexual content question. Often you can have nudity and not have any sexual connonation at all, and partial clothing does much more to accentuate sexuality than pure nudity does. But big sellers such as Billy-T would have a real problem advertising their lingerie work over the banners. Yet Victoria Secret seems to have no trouble doing the same thing in Elle magazine. Do you see the real world irony here folks?! You can't post artistic pictures of partially clothed or nude children (cherubs, angles, nativity scenes) on a porn site for obvious reasons. Renderotica is not the place to post your baby angel pictures. You should be able to post such innocent work, the stuff of Romanticism, Renaissance and classical art, HERE. This has been consistently my position all through these various controversies. seems to me some people won't be happy until some vendors are completely thrown out of the store for even daring to sell things like genital morphs, too. Seen those threads already, and they are fairly recent. But one loss here and one gain somewhere else. PoserPros finally lightened up on their stance with nudity. Artistic nudity involving babies is now allowed there (such as nativity scenes, cherubs and angels), and fairies can be less clothed than before. They can't have nipples or genitals showing, but you can cover them with leaves and flowers now. I'm very pleased with their decision to lighten their rules in the general interest of art.

"will you people be happy with just this banner decision?" yes "I think the banner decision is fine, although I would prefer an overall filter for nudity that affects the entire site, including banners" That was all I was asking for. "Its the larger agenda here I have a problem with, though. " What larger agenda would that be? I know i have no agenda- but was personally tired of having to apologize for certain banners when coming here. Now the banners are taken care of, i know personally 5 people i am going to recommend to come here for information in the vector and photoshop forums. Before i could not do that because of the reactions i have received in the past about certain ads. "I hope Renderosity understands this - the majority of their active members don't support this minority Puritan agenda." And you know this how? "And I hope they understand, artistic nudity is not pornography." As we hope you understand that nudity for the sake of nudity is not art. " I think you need to look at nudity divorced from the sexual content question. Like the pole dancing Vicky ads? "But big sellers such as Billy-T would have a real problem advertising their lingerie work over the banners. Yet Victoria Secret seems to have no trouble doing the same thing in Elle magazine. Do you see the real world irony here folks?!" Go to the Victoria's secret site- they do not show nipples nor do they show genital hair. "cherubs, angles, nativity scenes) on a porn site for obvious reasons. Renderotica is not the place to post your baby angel pictures. You should be able to post such innocent work, the stuff of Romanticism, Renaissance and classical art, HERE." I have never disagreed with that, but no one here really does that type of art. "seems to me some people won't be happy until some vendors are completely thrown out of the store for even daring to sell things like genital morphs" And those would be used in "...innocent work, the stuff of Romanticism, Renaissance and classical art...," how?

Interesting that people can't seem to look past their nose and see that there is more than just Poser on this site.

I thought the rule was stricter than it should be. Some flesh is necessary. But at least the banners won't be so embarrassing anymore.

*""But big sellers such as Billy-T would have a real problem advertising their lingerie work over the banners. Yet Victoria Secret seems to have no trouble doing the same thing in Elle magazine. Do you see the real world irony here folks?!"

Go to the Victoria's secret site- they do not show nipples nor do they show genital hair."*

We know you're right Cheryle and that there is a way to show a body texture or clothing without a racy pose and hands in near TOS violation but these people can't see any middle ground. They want tacky instead of tasteful beauty and insist the rest of the world come down to their level. They can't see that the only thing affected is a small banner ad. The product can be shown in all it's glory in the marketplace promo images and in the galleries. The galleries in fact, make more sense as a place to market.

I applaud the admins for keeping Renderosity and Renderotica separate.

...... Kendra

I wouldn't worry too much about Bijouchat- she just comes into these threads- gets up on her soap box, spews shrill pseudologic, calls people names, then leaves -in effect being even more closed minded and showing a narrower point of view than those she is pontificating and lecturing to.

Well, Cheryle...that may be true, then again bijouchat is not the only merchant that feels that way...she's just one of the few that are openly vocal about it.

bijouchat: I think the banner decision is fine, although I would prefer an overall filter for nudity that affects the entire site, including banners. Its the larger agenda here I have a problem with, though.

Me: A filter was asked for, the site has decided that tighter controls on the banners was a better alternative to a filter so that all merchants had the same opportunity for exposure of their products. The Admins concern was that filters would severely limit the exposure of some merchants. There is no larger agenda here. The majority of people that objected to the banners, objected to the explicit content. The objection was not "nudity" per se, but explicit, tasteless, tacky sexuality used to advertise products.

bijouchat: Now the puritans have a taste of victory...

Me: I think most of us involved in this issue resent being called "puritans", "prigs", "prudes", or any other such characterization. I did not object to the banners, but a sizable number of the members did. Since Renderosity chooses to characterize itself as a "family friendly" site...many banners fell outside the limits required to keep a site "family friendly". I spoke out on the behalf of those members, even though my views are in many ways opposite theirs, because this is a community...and as such, I believe there has to be give and take and respect for the diverse standards of the membership. There is no celebration of victory here...there is merely appreciation for the Admins for recognizing the standards they set were being violated and dealing with it.

bijouchat: This banner rule would ironically ban even artworks in the style of such pictures like Botticelli's Birth of Venus from banners, which you can view in yes, any art textbook.

Me: The banner ruling does not ban artistic works, it bans tacky, tasteless, and explicit advertising copy which is used to lure people to view and purchase the product. It in no way effects what merchants can show in their store images.

bijouchat: Renderotica is not the place to post your baby angel pictures. You should be able to post such innocent work, the stuff of Romanticism, Renaissance and classical art, HERE.

Me: You can pretty much post whatever you want in the Product Showcase Forum and the Product Showcase Gallery within the limits of the TOS, and still showcase your products.

bijouchat: seems to me some people won't be happy until some vendors are completely thrown out of the store for even daring to sell things like genital morphs, too.

Me: Genital morphs and such aren't the problem, they way they are depicted in the banner ads are! Tell us in you Banner that you have genital morphs available, tell us they how easy they are to apply, tell us how many dials available to customize them...but a closeup of a naked man or woman's genitals posed seductively isn't necessary to get us to click that banner.

bijouchat: PoserPros finally lightened up on their stance with nudity. Artistic nudity involving babies is now allowed there (such as nativity scenes, cherubs and angels), and fairies can be less clothed than before. They can't have nipples or genitals showing, but you can cover them with leaves and flowers now.

Me: What has that got to do with banner ads or the banner ad decision here?

As far as it goes, I'm happy with the sites measures to keep the content within reasonable boundaries for a "family friendly" site. The control of content in the banners and the "nudity flag" are reasonable controls that honor the needs of a diverse community. On the other hand, I will not be making any purchases from any merchants that consider limits on nudity and explicit sexuality "prudish", "prigish", or "puritan". They obviously care little about the community and much about the dollars they can line their pockets with. I don't begrudge anyone the right to profit, unless it means they are willing to use any means to make that profit...including a blatent disrespect for healthy views of members in the community.

"Now the puritans have a taste of victory..." Don't worry, they never win , they are always fighting against the devil and have forgotten how to see the beauty in this world.

Stupidity also evolves!

You are confusing beauty with tacky images.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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kawecki: Don't worry, they never win , they are always fighting against the devil and have forgotten how to see the beauty in this world.

Well, I don't know about that. I see lots of beauty in the world. I love to cloud watch in the summer time, the recent snow we had was certainly beautiful (at least until it turned to slush...and that had a certain bizarre beauty to it anyway). Having a girl look at me from between her legs with a narrow strip of cloth separating her butt cheeks and barely covering her vagina may be interesting, seductive, and erotic, but not necessarily beautiful...especially if it randomly pops up on my screen and it's only purpose is to sell me something. In fact depending on what the ad is trying to sell, and the pose, and the facial expression, and a lot of other variables...it might just be tacky and tasteless.

I'm not a "puritan"...I don't fight "devils"...I know beauty when I see it and I know that beauty isn't always something that makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. I don't object to nudity...some people do, I am open minded enough to be able to understand their viewpoint and felt their "standards" were reasonable enough that I could support their request not to have explicit content inflicted on them by the banner ads. I suspect that merchants "profits" will be far more impacted by their whining, mischaracterizations, and unfair labeling than by the limits placed on their banner ads. Any merchant that cannot understand that or discuss it without making such characterizations or handing out such labels will find my wallet never comes out of my pocket for their products.

I too am not against nudity, but it has its place.. Artistic nudity is fine by me..in its place.. I will have to go with what Illusions said.. * Having a girl look at me from between her legs with a narrow strip of cloth separating her butt cheeks and barely covering her vagina may be interesting, seductive, and erotic, but not necessarily beautiful...* Well... that type of nudity IMO isnt necessary and doesnt qualify as 'artistic nudity' and isnt desperately needed to sell. I resent being labled a 'prude, prig, purtian, complainer, whiner, malcontent or any other host of names just because I have different views. Not once that Im aware of have any of us called the creators/merchants/members that advocate this form of 'nudity' names such as this...

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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why are some members making a big stink over this?....i totally support the admins in there decision to not allow the nudity on the banners.......just like alot of you...i too was getting fed up with seeing these banners that made this sirte look like a porn site......i come here to renderosity on my breaks at work.....and even though im lalowed to do soo....i have to watch my back and make sure i scroll down quickly because of these ads ......but let me say this that blackhearted banners i thought those to be tasteful...... but still .....even though they were tasteful in my mind......instead of picking on a few members banners.....all banners had to be re worked.....and thats the bottom line....it has nothing to do with picking on one member.....im just tired of seeing all these products offering pubic hair and genital morphs.....like how many of those products do we really need here?.........ive come to the conclusion the reason i kept on seeing them here is because the member wants something easy to make and sell .....IMHO.......just like the members selling finger nails for vicky and eye ball textures.......why dont these merchants make something the community could really use......most of these products are useless and should be offered for free and work on something thats worth buying....i dont mean to lash out on the merchants cause alot of you are doin a great job...and im not one of those members who hates the merchantscause i want to become one....but id rather offer something the community needs and not just rush out and do something easy like pubic hairs ......so please dont go making a fuss over this minor thing ....cause there has to be guidelines set....if you have someone to blame dont blame the administrators....blame the merchants who made those crappy cheesy banners that started this.....one bad banner ruins them all epseically the pubic hair one....... nnuu

....im just tired of seeing all these products offering pubic hair and genital morphs.....like how many of those products do we really need here?......... Ive often wondered that very thing.. just curious mind you, what exactly do you use a 'genital morph' for? I mean if your trying to sell textures for skin, clothes, etc..who's going to see the genitals if they are covered by clothes?? Nope, I think that it is for pornography purposes myself..I could be wrong tho..anyone want to enlighten me as to why these types of morphs are needed? not trying to get another flamer goin' Im just curious..never learn anything if ya dont ask questions.. ~J

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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I am a merchant, and I can see both sides to some degree. I understand that the line between virtual and real is being blurred, in some cases that is good, and others it is bad. The problem is that this site is world wide, and what would be consider lewd in my community, might be considered prudish in another. So we have to understand that there are many cultures that people are coming from. 2nd, is that the market went upside down late last August. After Curious labs announced the release of Poser 5, everybody stopped buying. This put an increased pressure on some of the merchants. And it seemed that the 9/11 anniversary took a bit of a toll. Then just when things got to going again, there was a major upheval with some rule changes at the end of Oct. Sales are just starting to get back to where they think they should be, and the rules started changing again. 3rd, I think that many of the merchants are sensitive to any change of the rules, and the abruptness of any change. In particular, this one happen within a few hours. It probably would have been much more well received if they said we have been too laxed on the nudity in banner ads, we feel that your ad should be replaced ASAP, but within 3 days. This would have gone over much smoother, and given the merchant time to redo it, rather than to just pull it. Sometimes it is a fine line managing all of the merchants in the store. And quite frankly they are trying to set down clear rules, so that they don't have to judge the "art" of the ad. I think that some of the ads did show a lack of taste, while others showed a lot of skin, but with class. I agreed that some needed to be redone, but how does one past judgement? That is a damn good question. So, as merchants, we are given a hit statistic, i.e. that your ad has had 112 click and 789 displays. So as we try to play a game with the potential customers, (at least some of us do) we try to find out what banner gets clicked most often. Any banner that get over a certain ratio, we put in a folder, to rerun in a few months. Any that don't, we trash, and try again. So, you the customer can be part of the solution. Because, what has happened up until this week was we would run a banner, and it seemed that the more skin that was showing, the more clicks it got, and thus more sales. The problem is that this led to some ads that showed a lack of taste. What can you do? How about reward the best banner ad that you see with a little acknowledgement, just like artist of the month. How about banner of the week? Just a thought. I see that your discussion, you don't want people flaming each other. You would like to see something positive come out of this, then take this post for just that. Let it be a discussion starter on rewarding positive events. You might even develop a following and move on to other areas. But, what do I know, I am just a merchant, trying to get by, raising a little bit of money to help my kids.

How about reward the best banner ad that you see with a little acknowledgement, just like artist of the month. How about banner of the week? Now this is a nice idea! :) I have actually seen some new banners popping up that I thought were very tastefully done. One I just saw was for lingere actually.. Id post it if I could, but I wont ;) The ad shows a woman, no tacky pose, in red bikini lingere.. very nicely presented if I say so myself..one that my youngest daughter would not be offended by.. I would hope that the merchants suffer no loss in sales, and if having a contest of sorts to help them out and encourage them to produce more tasteful banners, and possibly gain more customers, then Im for that. ~Jani :)

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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There's only been one banner ad that I noticed enough to sit there and say, "Wow!" and that was Blackhearted's with the eye and lip closeup that reminded me of a Picasso. I may disagree with him on every other subject but that banner caught my eye.
With the limitation on size, there isn't much you can do anyway. Creativity is going to be key now. There are enough banners that are getting the point across. The one I'm seeing at the top of this page for example. Close up of eyes showing one very good feature of the character and text detailing what's in the package.
That's what I like to see. Tasteful and informative. In fact, I'm going to to see what character it is. :)

...(Miasma for Victoria 3 just went into my wishlist) :)

...... Kendra

What I can't understand.... is WHY 2 members in this thread, lynching merchants & bitching about non-nude skin showing the MOST.... have NO gallery ?? But, yet your a self-appointed art critic ?? Take My advise... DON'T quit your day job in hopes of a Promising career as an art critic. My 5 cents worth Thomas

Because this is the only thing that they are able to do....

Stupidity also evolves!

Folks, please let's not even go there. Having a gallery is in no way a requisite for having a voice. Kevin.

All you can do ??? I beg to differ... don't see you whining & bitching about pre-teen naked faries.... why ??? Because they are SOOOOOOOOOOO cute ?? WTF ??? Thomas

well, both of my banner ads have been deleted by the administration as a result of this thread. i dont find them 'offensive' at all, nor do i think they are 'garbage' or 'sexist' or 'pornographic' or even suggestive in any way. neither has a single person from over forty people that ive shown them to, including my mother and grandmother. ive spent a long time working on both of them, and was quite proud of how they turned out. for anyone thats interested, they can be seen here. (since f i posted them in this thread they would be deleted). hope youre all happy, you got what you wanted. i wont be releasing any more products at renderosity. cheers, -gabriel

What about the hi-res Pacifier.... for all the F#%kin whiners Gabriel ?? Bet it'd be a top seller... esp in the gift department ... heh heh :o) Thomas

no, that would go in freestuff.

lmao... yeah, that would make a very cool gift. too bad the minimum price is $5, otherwise id put it up in the store for 25 cents, and people could give them as gifts for those extra special people :)

I'll be watching for you over at RDNA, BH. And for what it's worth, after looking at the banners on your site, I have to agree with you, that they didn't cross the line. Wonder how many vendors are going to go bye bye from this one.....

heh heh Dale... watch for ALL the Censored Banners popping up ;) Thomas

It's starting to look like the pro-nudity guys are getting nasty about this, seeing their position is weak. Nudity will always have a place in art, but we're talking sales, not art. Nudity for the sake of money is pornography, and getting all nasty and whiny about just makes you look bad.

mateo, the only people who come off as whiney are the people bitching that there are offensive, non-nude ads up there. please point out on my ads exactly where you see nudity, or offensiveness, or anything 'unacceptable'. they adhere to the TOS, yet now its purely a 'subjective' matter. im not 'pro-nudity'. im 'anti-sexual repression' and 'anti-prude'. whereas i wouldnt want my kid growing up and surfing porn sites at age 12, id FAR rather have that than have him grow up in a sheltered psycho-moralistic coccoon and regard the female form as 'deviant'. were not talking about 'money shots' here, or pubic hair (as someone totally irrelevantly brought up) or even nipples. were talking about the contour of a hip, a hand covering a breast shyly, a partially undone blouse showing a hint of cleavage, etc etc. the only thing deviant here is the failure to accept that human sexuality, and nudity, is the most natural thing in the world. anyone that classifies THAT as pornography needs to have their head examined, and i pray that they never have kids upon whose helpless minds they will impose such prudish values. cheers, -gabriel

You know, Gabe, I never thought I'd be hearing myself say this Mate considering our disposition towards each other in the past, but I have to say I agree with you on this. By far, your advertisments were much more tasteful and eye-capturing than many of the ones that float around above our threads... which says a lot since I don't pay much mind to many, so if they capture my attention and interest, that's saying a lot! Cheers! Jack

Smitt: I HAD a gallery here, and why I removed it is no business of yours..I can still have an opinion here like it or not shrug And as for "Take My advise... DON'T quit your day job in hopes of a Promising career as an art critic." I would take that advice to heart for yourself.. Black: were talking about the contour of a hip, a hand covering a breast shyly, a partially undone blouse showing a hint of cleavage, etc etc. the only thing deviant here is the failure to accept that human sexuality, and nudity, is the most natural thing in the world. Wth was it said anything about 'the conture of a hip??' Id like to see that post.. could you find it and repost it for all of us? As for the rest of that statement, all your describing is a mild form of the females role in foreplay..and the very reason your images were removed probably* and doesnt help this discussion at all. You have totally taken this out of context and twisted it around to mean something that it doesnt. We asked for INDIVIDUAL FILTERS so that if there was something that we did not wish to see, we would have the option to turn it off. What we GOT however was stricter rules set in place for banner ads {How many F@!#$%@ times we gotta post this??} The banner ads that were objected to were the ones that were constantly flashed in our faces showing legs spread, with little or no cloth between them, provacative poses that could be used for nothing else than a sexual position, completely naked women with nothing covering them but tiny stars over the nipples, and so on.. What Im seeing from you and smitt, are a couple of male merchants who have no regard or respect for women in general, and the rest of the community members, and only care about 'money' As for your last statement Black.. i pray that they never have kids upon whose helpless minds they will impose such prudish values I'll thank you to not tell me how to raise my children, and dont try to impose your views and values upon me. Raise yours the way you see fit, and upon your head be it..Leave mine alone. ~J

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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Oh goodie, I knew the "no respect for women" card would eventually get played in this discussion, only didn't know how long it would be. NOW this is GONNA get interesting!! Jack

oh please, who said anything about the female form being deviant! I think that is taking it WAY out of context. I was getting sick of some of those erotic banners too. I'm not a prude, so don't even go there. Thing is I have kids, and I don't want them seeing ads about genital morphs or the lower half of breasts everytime they come up to me while I am on the computer to see what I am doing. They are young and shouldn't have to deal with erotica and sex whether in advertising or otherwise. Erotica and sex is ok, in there place. I am glad for the desicion for those that wanted it, doesn't affect me personally cause I block all banners and have been for a while. For the merchant, remember sex isn't the only thing that sells, use your imagination.

Taura, I really need to say this, you took and showed responsiblity!! Unlike others, you did so by actively taking measures and steps in which to protect your children (and possibly yourself) from viewing any questionable banners by filtering them out yourself. You took responsiblity for your Internet browsing, rather than tried to get someone else to accept that responsiblity. I commend you! I only wish there were more people who did the same in cyberspace!! Jack

items pertaining to pinup art, or sexuality, make up the VAST majority of this sites content, both in the marketplace and in the galleries and forums. so why dont YOU use YOUR imagination and figure out a way to change the current 'deviant and offensive' system without forcing your prudish way of thinking upon the silent majority. "The banner ads that were objected to were the ones that were constantly flashed in our faces showing legs spread, with little or no cloth between them, provacative poses that could be used for nothing else than a sexual position, completely naked women with nothing covering them but tiny stars over the nipples, and so on.." "You have totally taken this out of context and twisted it around to mean something that it doesnt. " regardless of what you WANTED, the end result was the deletion of a lot of banner advertisements that only a prude would find offensive. youre describing spread legs, pubic hair, erotic poses, money shots, breast closeups, etc - yet my ads were in this group of deleted ads. i didnt notice anything you mentioned in them. so im still waiting on your explanation on how they fall into the 'offensive' category.

and yes taura, you DID show responsibility, and TOOK ACTION!!! youve succeeded in protecting your children from the horrors of the internet - horrors like navels, kneecaps, collarbones and hips! but when your kids see a woman on the beach in a bikini or a young couple hugging at a bus stop, and have a nervous breakdown/conniption fit from the 'horror', you might wish youd have been a little more open-minded. the horror. the horror. you should live in singapore - youd love it there.

Oh goodie, I knew the "no respect for women" card would eventually get played in this discussion, only didn't know how long it would be And one wonders why you thought that would be said..or better yet, why it shouldnt have been.. You took responsiblity for your Internet browsing, rather than tried to get someone else to accept that responsiblity. First off, Renderosity had that responsibility Jack.. Second, The rest of us might not have wanted ALL the banners taken off..ever think of that? read the threads over again, and maybe a little slower if ya missed it Maybe we didnt want to change everything we see on the net, by blocking ALL ads in our browsers. That might be fine for some, but not for all. Talking to you people and trying to get you to see our point is like talking to a stump..worthless and a waste of time.. Why we should even remotely bother caring about your views and opinions is beyond me, Altho, we DID attempt it as you do not do the same in return.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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yet my ads were in this group of deleted ads. i didnt notice anything you mentioned in them. so im still waiting on your explanation on how they fall into the 'offensive' category. Why dont you ask the PTB, they're the ones who deleted them. horrors like navels, kneecaps, collarbones and hips! but when your kids see a woman on the beach in a bikini or a young couple hugging at a bus stop, and have a nervous breakdown/conniption fit from the 'horror', you might wish youd have been a little more open-minded Now there is brilliance at work...

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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blackhearted, I don't think so.

J said: "And one wonders why you thought that would be said..or better yet, why it shouldnt have been..." Me: Well that might be because I've seen that sort of approached used so many times one would think ALL women were oppressed, mistreated and slaves under Gor. Next will come the arguement that if people think that it is okay to do it to a virtual 3D mesh of a woman then they will think it's okay for it to happen to real women... you know, the moral majority view regarding censorship of porn arguements will soon follow. A real hoot to watch!! I so look forward to it!! J said: "First off, Renderosity had that responsibility Jack.. Second, The rest of us might not have wanted ALL the banners taken off..ever think of that? read the threads over again, and maybe a little slower if ya missed it" Me: Renderosity OWES no responsiblity outside of the Agreement and TOS that vistors MUST accept before becoming members here. In fact, though I am not sure if it is still in place, but I remember a clause that stated that you had to be over a certain age or have parential permission before becoming a member here. Did I ever think of that? Well gee, considering I told everyone that I didn't see the filtering option coming to pass when this subject first arose and even asked that they'd consider it rather than the road that they choose on your behalf, I'd say I had a pretty good handle on the whole development, thankyouverymuch. And your particular brand of sarcasm is duely noted as the cannon fodder that it is. J said: "Talking to you people and trying to get you to see our point is like talking to a stump..worthless and a waste of time.. Why we should even remotely bother caring about your views and opinions is beyond me, Altho, we DID attempt it as you do not do the same in return." Me: Perhaps you need to go back a few threads, yourself, to see that I DID see the points you were trying to make and WHY I DON'T agree with them. The addage of: "Practice what you preach comes to mind here" and also should be applied to taking responsible for your own Internet Browsing. Your feeble attempts at "trying to get us to see your point" comes across more like an attempt to convert us to Christianity or the Watchtower. Made EVEN more apparent when you add the line: "Why we should even remotely bother caring about your views and opinions is beyond me" I never asked for you to bother caring what my views were or what my opinion may be, I only asked that Renderosity be mindful of them while passing a judgement that you asked to have enforced. I don't need to be "Saved" from banner advertisements. I don't need to be "Saved" from embarrassement at showing this site to my family members, friends or kids. I am not the one that is asking Renderosity to "SAVE" me from the evils of merchandising, sexual conontations, innuendo or the barest hint of synthetic flesh... if memory serves me... that would've been... oh yeah... YOU. Save your religon, viewpoints and opinions for someone that would actually give a fuck about them, don't try selling them to me... I am happy with the way I am. Jack

Blackhearted, you're acting like anyone who complained about tacky banners targeted you specifically. I think I've read all the complaint threads and I don't recall seeing you mentioned. The admins, instead of deciding to filter out the tacky ones about pubic hair and genital morphs and teen characters with tape looking like porn rejects, decided to get strict with all nudity. Yours were not the problem and I don't see any of the members saying they were. You've chosen to lump yourself into the few banners that were complained about when you really weren't there in the first place.

I can only speak for me but I don't think a total nude ban in necessary. I don't believe breasts or genitals belong in the banners simply because they can't be filtered. IF they could, I'd say go for it. But they can't. I don't know if yours would bother others or not, they look fine to me but you're insulting a group of people who don't deserve it, don't think that your banners were offensive and haven't insulted you in this.

Something to think about.

The nyquil's kicking in, sorry for any spelling errors. I'm going to bed.

...... Kendra

kendra: "You've chosen to lump yourself into the few banners that were complained about when you really weren't there in the first place" regardless of what banners were complained about, mine were both deleted, and THAT is my point, and 'why im here', and 'lumping myself' into the banner threads. jumpstart: "Talking to you people and trying to get you to see our point is like talking to a stump..worthless and a waste of time.." i couldnt have said it better myself. "Why we should even remotely bother caring about your views and opinions is beyond me, Altho, we DID attempt it as you do not do the same in return." again, its the misguided moral minority who just happen to squeal the loudest (due to much practice, no doubt) that decide the fate of almost 800 hardworking merchants and nearly 100,000 renderosity members. you should care about my views because decisions like this, while momentarily placating you and quelling your incessant bitching, adversely affect me and other merchants who form the financial backbone of this site and provide for its continued operation - as well as the silent vast majority of members who arent sexually repressed and have no problem whatsoever with the human body. and the not-so-silent majority whose pleas for a reasonable solution to this situation are being ignored by the administration in their quest to nerf this site.

For the merchant, remember sex isn't the only thing that sells, use your imagination Like that will ever happen....... :)

Save your religon, viewpoints and opinions for someone that would actually give a fuck about them, don't try selling them to me... I am happy with the way I am. This is exactly my point..Stay who you are Jack, Nobody tried to sway you anywhere.. But my advice to you is..get off that damned high horse your on, before you fall off and hurt yourself :| Kendra: I dont think a nude ban is what we need here either, and agree with you about the banners and needing a filter.. which 'some' of these people dont get yet.. sigh Im going to bed too..

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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J said: "But my advice to you is..get off that damned high horse your on, before you fall off and hurt yourself :|" Don't you be worrying about me, I never said I was on a high horse, if I am, then its only because you are putting me there by your viewpoint of me... Though I do find it interesting that in one breath you are saying: "Nobody tried to sway you anywhere.." and then in your next breath you add: "But my advice to you is.." Jack

Jack: Never said you had to take said advice..if you fall off, you fall off..and by no means did I put you that high.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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as well as the silent vast majority of members who arent sexually repressed and have no problem whatsoever with the human body And you've consulted with this 'silent majority' on their views? And who are you to judge whether a person is repressed? you should care about my views because decisions like this, while momentarily placating you and quelling your incessant bitching I wasnt aware that I was doing any 'incessant bitching' until you and others came along and attacked me for no reason other than I wasnt being 'silent'...and at one point I did care about your views, and every other merchant, and I still do. But making me a target alone here is not fair, nor do I deserve it just because my views are different than yours. Again, we asked for one thing and got another. The fact that we asked for something is not in most places considered 'whining, or bitching' Im sorry that your images got deleted, and in truth I see nothing wrong with them..Apparently the PTB did..which is whom you should be asking questions, and directing your anger towards..not me. I see images still that need to be 'adjusted, not banned' that are wayyyy worse than yours. I never asked for this rule, all I asked right along with others is that we have the same type of filter incorporated into the banner ads, as is in the galleries..what is so hard to understand about that? It was meant to be for individuals, not site wide. Im usually pretty quiet about things around here, but when I saw others that were just as uncomfortable about 'some' of those ads for reasons of our own, I felt the need to support the idea of filters. Look at Illusions, he doesnt mind the banners, but felt the need to to support the idea as well because we are all of different backgrounds, cultures, etc. etc.. I just think that this is getting way out of hand, and your anger and others, is misdirected.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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Uhhh, JSM2? Read the following quote: "Again, =we= asked for one thing and got another. The fact that =we= asked for something is not in most places considered 'whining, or bitching'" I added the = = to bring your attention to the fact that you kinda set yourself up as a target, as you are claiming in your verbiage that you are some sort of spokesman for 'the group' that was uncomfortable with some of the banner ads, and like it or not, -are- partly responsible as a group for the course that the PTB took (and I think that Jack's point is that anyone with half a frontal lobe would have been able to guess that 'Rosity, being a business, would have taken the cheapest way out). And before you try and claim you didn't, consider this. You have a group of 100,000 people. A literal handful step forward and make a complaint, and use that all inclusive 'we'. If the rest of the group behind them don't speak up, then the only assumption that can be drawn is that they agree with the handful. And that the one speaking in 'we's' is the spokesman. And for several posts, you have been talking using 'we', as if you -are- some kind of spokesman for a group. I am not a part of that 'we'. So far as I've been able to determine, there were no 'real' women in any of those banner ads; just Poser meshes. So unless the model in question was Dina (no longer brokered here), Natalia, or one of DAZ's meshes morphed or modified in some way, there was no representation of genitalia to display. And little stars over the nipple area meets the legal requirements in Tennessee. As for poses that can 'only' be used for sexual situations....I'd like to meet that pose. Most of my work uses 'those' poses, because with a little tweaking here and there, you get excellent and dynamic fighting poses, everyday poses, pratfall poses, crawling through the dark poses, etc. Just as dancing, fighting, arguing etc poses can be easily tweaked to be some of the most explicit postures you can imagine. I have no sympathy for the few who complained about their kids walking in on them and being embarassed by racy banner ads. There are more than enough freeware and 'included in our package' retail software versions that -no one- has any excuse save laziness for not using one. And every one that I checked out required at most 4 clicks to enable or disable. Most only need 2. Not exactly registry hacking, is it? This particular ruling has no immediate effect on me, as I use an ad blocker always; I have a partial-complex siezure condition, and far too many of the little nuisances insist on strobing. Frankly, -I- had a far more legitimate concern than embarassment; that strobing could trigger a siezure, which could have injured me physically. I protected -myself-, instead of jumping up and down and waving the ADA in the air. Took a lot less time and energy, and didn't infringe on others. What concerns -me- is the very poor precedent that this sets. It would take over 1,000 separate people complaining to approach a 1% dissatisfaction rate. The actual number (barring a flood of emails and IM's; could the mods give us a rough percentage of the -actual- complaints on this?)is considerably less than .1%. That gives the next 'group' who wants, for an easy example, EloronceDark's bondage gear sets simply gone from 'Their Family Oriented Site' (which is utter BS, since you have to be of age or have a signed parental permission slip, the last time I looked) which shouldn't carry =anything= of 'that' nature a precedent (=Excellent= sets, btw, EloD. Have them all.... :P ). Namely that the complaints of a fraction of a percent of the membership should have sway entirely out of proportion to what it should have. The precedent is set. Remember who set it when it comes back and bites you.

very well said, dale.

blackhearted with all due respect......ill say it again....your banners i thought were tasteful......but were removed.....why?...probably because if they werent ....a merchant or 2 who made genital morphs and pubic hair textures would of complained to the administrators and asked why your banners were not taking down....so the adminstrators decided to not single anyone out and take yours down with the rest of the banners......but i have a question for you......is it really hard to put a bikini on your figures? ....or are you too proud to swallow your pride?......if you want to leave ....then leae......but if i were in your shows....i would stay and try and make more of a buck than if i were to leave......i have nothing against you.....but it just seems your fightinhg a lost cause....all this time you took to write on this and another thread you could of put bikini 's on your banners and have them uploaded already.....tkae it with a grain of salt and move on to better things

Im not the spokesperson for the 'group'.. never claimed to be. Just because I posted and the others didnt, actually Kendra did once that doesnt make me 'the one'..Draw your own conclusions if you must..

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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opps sorry bout the spelling it should of been if i were in your shoes and not shows.....and what ever else i mis spelled :-)

the silent vast majority of members who arent sexually repressed and have no problem whatsoever with the human body You know, I see this line a lot, and I'm getting really tired of it. It's not the human body you purport to be celebrating. It's one particular kind of human body: the gorgeous supermodel with perfect hair and perfect makeup. That right there is your rallying cry and your standard to hoist, and anything else, as far as you're concerned, is a waste of time. So if you're as true to this belief as you claim, prove it. Let's see a first-rate image of a nude study of an overweight, middle-aged man. Not a laughable cartoon, but one that shows empathy and a real desire to celebrate the naked human body in all its diversity, instead of just the one that happens to sells. I'll bet right now that none of you closet sexists can do it.

A point to ponder:

A lot of numbers have been thrown around and taken as factual. R'osity may have (or had) 100,000+ members, but does this reflect the actual number of "active" members; or is it a marketing ploy to say "we have had over 100,000+ members join (and, most likely, the majority of them leave) since we opened our doors"?

I am willing to bet that the "active" members list is more in the single digit thousands, at the absolute best. I have never seen the Online count go above 2000 - which is a 2% participation rate by those standards.

So, do not make the presumption that there are actually 100,000+ members here unless you know that as a fact and that they are "active" and not one-time clones or Freebie Leeches, representative of those come and gone, etc.

Forum: Community Center

Subject: Banner ads the ruling