I just picked up the V2-V3 Texture Converter. While it has some great features and the idea behind it is a good one, I'm concerned over the quality of image it outputs. I put the little converter to the test with Deviant Designs Dedgirls package using the Nightshade character. (Texture used with permission) and what I found is that it comes out a little pixelated and rough. (see attached picture) I tried numerous size settings and got the same results every time. As you can see by the attached image, the original texture is smooth and detailed and the output image from the converter is bumpy around the edges of the lips, the eyebrows converted oddly, and the cheeks saved with bad compression. The output was saved at the max jpg resolution. While I personally think that the tool has great potential, I'm not pleased with the initial tests that I tried with it. (DW and co, this is absoutly NOT a slam on you guys, I love your products and would never say anything bad about you.) I'd appreciate feedback from other converter users and if possible, post a side by side of the textures you've coverted like I have here to see how well your conversions stand next to mine. ~k

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Here is a Poser render of the 2 textures side by side. Left is V3 with conversion, right is V2 with the original texture applied.

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I think that this is a result of needing to warp the input texture in order to fit the output (since much of the UV mapping has been changed from V2 to V3). Still, anti-aliasing would go a long way to remove the artifactual jaggies created by the conversion process (around the mouth). Otherwise, I don't see too much loss of quality in the V3 conversion render as compared to the V2 render. The most noticeable areas are the jaggedness of the eyebrows and upper lip. BYS

The poor results you experienced above are due to the small size of the texture you started with. Higher resolution yields a much cooler result. Also blury maps don't work nearly as well as crisp sharp ones. The best output ratio to use for the head is 3000 by 2040 at max jpg quality. My personal opinion is that only V2 textures at 3000 by 3000 should be converted. The V2 texture should be clear and not smeared to death. :) Some cleanup is required for perfectionists(me. me.) The distortion you are seeing in the cheeks is caused by the blur. If the original texture had more texture(noise..anything rough) it would convert truer. The old V2 mapping has regions all at defferent sizes like the scalp, hands, feel etc. Areas that have to be sized up like the back of the head suffer during conversion but that is a logical side effect. I have been testing this program all day and aside from being my only purchase ever from the marketplace, I think this is potentially one of the coolest Poser toys of all time. Where the converted may not be a replacement for a new V3 texture, it is a great tool for salvaging older works for use in creating new textures. Anton This image is from the a batch of textures I did for V3 before we remapped her when she still used the V2 mapping. I am only salvaging the faces for my project since that is all I need.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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I'm not sure how you did it Anton, but this was my attempt at converting the V3 textures to V2. Notice the seam under the neck and if you look closely, there's a funky color around the edges of the eyes...the lips seem to smear off the side of the lip a bit as well. And I started with the DAZ Highlight and Contour maps

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Another View

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Oh well. Like I said, not quite the same as an original texture but still impressive. I think it is fun to watch it do the conversion. We added and expanded materials aound the neck and eyes. Going from V3 to V2 isn't something I played with. Not bad results really. I think it really works best converting a V2 texture to V3 but it has to be a really good V2 texture. All in all though, it converted allot better with the hi rez map. Alot better than the first try you posted. I think little problems will be ironed out with patches over time. But I don't know what their plans are. I like it though.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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Redid the Nightshade textures with the original 3000x3000 maps directly from Deviant Designs. Still issues with eyebrows and lips. The lips are still jagged on the outside and still lost clarity compared to the original 1500 map on V2.

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Another map compare, DAZ's highlight and contour maps. Right eye and lower legs. Again, the eyebrows have issues and the legs of the output are terribly blotchy. While not HORRIBLE for long distance shots, definitly not great for close ups. Both maps were saved as max jpg quality. I'd honestly like to see more import/export options. I.E. Import .tiff or psd files and output .tiff. I'd really like to be able to compress and/or reduce size in Photoshop and see what the lossy will do to the texture before I save it. (original deleted as per Anton's request to add text to the eyes)

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hey thanks. :) crazy world we live in. I think you are outpuuting wrong. Don't out put the V3 maps as a square. Use 3000 by 2040...not 3000 by 3000. The original imported map has to be naturally hi res at 3000. If the map is only 1500 sizing it up won't work.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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Anton, those were the V3 highlight and contour maps being changed into V2 mapping. Saved at 1500x1500 (also saved them at 2000x2000 and the outcome was identical) As for going the other way, I saved the v2-V3 maps at 1500x1020 to save space. (I've lowered all the res's of my Highlight and Contour maps to 1500x1020 to speed render times up. The huge maps still take a chunk out of my resources) And as you can see, the maps on V3 look perfect at 1500x1020.

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Oh I see. Why would you want to convert V3 textures to V2?

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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Because I bought the product specifically to convert the V3 textures that I'm creating into V3 counter parts.

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you mean V2 counterparts? Well then yes I see your point. :( On the plus side it doesn't look like clean up would take terribly long.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Preview of my Jokers wild texture. As you can see, the right side is the original V3 texture, jpg saved 100% through photoshop. Left side is same texture saved at max jpg compression vor V2 through the converter. Huge issues with a lot of parts of the conversion. But my biggest gripes are the eyebrows (which look like fingerprints now) and the lips.

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hmmm. I just did a test. COnverting V3maps to V2map is pretty blotchy. :(

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

nod That was the prime reason I picked the product up. All of the reviews said it was easy, quick and almost perfect on both types of conversions. I'm not too worried about the V2 textures, because I have V3-V2mapping and it works just fine for me. MAT's even apply good. (Although could ya do something about the V3-V2 body having morphs. Those boobs are just killing me the way they're not smooth into the chest, but that's another thread LOL) Don't get me wrong. I think this product has mass potential, but I do think it's far from perfect in the state that it's in currently.

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Poser rendered version of the previous Jokers Wild textures. V3 on the left V2 on the right. Original texture for V3, converted to V2. As you can see, it has a LOT of issues.

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Just don't climb the bitterness tree. Still remarkable software. I am pleased with the way it converts V2maps to V3maps. Give it some time. The fingerprint comment did make me spit out my soda. :)

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

LOL, well, there's really no other way to describe how they look LOL

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Might I suggest contacting DarkWhisper? That might be a logical thing to do as he has stated he's working on some patches and such. Also did you install the update? Just curious. I have it, I just have yet to find the time to use it. lol Cheers, Gina

Well, here is mine if you want to analyze it. I don't seem to be having any issues..*shrug*

V3 is on the right. :o)

Having looked into the technical issues of writing such a converter myself, I'm not surprised that such artefacts should occur. Warping irregular polygonal bitmaps is not straightforward; it requires some complex pixel mapping, particularly when the polygons are different sizes and you have to interpolate missing pixels.

bshafer, might you look at the actual tex maps and see if they look funky at all?

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Ok, so I'm NOT the only one having funky problems LOL

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i don't have this product. yet from looking at the samples here, i can see minor flaws in the before/after images... beside what was was missing or what was disstored. ya'll take a real closer look. you might see something you missed.

so far the only probelm i have had is a black line in the out putted map. turns out that is a memory issue with my dam comp...if I use the converter for to long I start to get weird results. utherwise I havent had the lip or eyebrow problem yet. Then again my maps are all lower res since my comp cant handle the higher stuff. the higher maps cause poser to freeze 9 times outta ten. or cause weird things like just the head going all white, or the poser figure to dissaper completely. wish I had my good comp back. :(

Hey you might want to put text or something over the lip texture pic because posting it like that violates copyright quite badly methinks :/

Most of the problems are caused from the original map not covering the full area of the converted map. The lips are taken from a specificly sized area and then "warped" to fit the new texture maps lip area. Some minor touch up is required on some and none on others. I ran Asia and Yuma through with no alterations at all. Think of it this way you have a rubber mask (the type worn over your face) you need to cut out an area, say the lips, then stretch them to fit a different shaped mask. You cut the lips out using a punch of a predetermined shape, same shape for every mask, then you stretch the mask "lips" to fit the new different shaped masks "lips". The area that is cut out is not always going to be an exact match and you will need to do some touchups on some maps.

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oops I deleted pic in case of copywright violation...sorry bout that! :(

Attached Link: 3D Universe

Hi guys, What Great Bizarro is saying (with the mask example) is spot on. What this program does is it takes a single triangle of texture from the source texture, and rotates/scales/stretches it to fit into the corresponding place on the target texture. It is completely impossible to do this without some stretching / loss in quality. The size of the input texture has a big role to play in how the converted texture comes out - 1500x1500 is going to give poor results compared with an original texture of 4000x4000. Sizing the 1500x1500 texture up to 4000x4000 before conversion is gaining nothing, as detail is lost anyway. In the current upgrade in development, I am including support to read and write to BMP files. Being a compression free format, this will get over the problem of JPEG compressing an already compressed texture. With highly detailed textures like the jokers wild one you show here, because of the mere fact that the program is pushing and pulling the texture to fit the new face shape, small details will be lost. This cannot be avoided. I have a forum open on www.3duniverse.co.za to help customers with problems they have, and suggestions for upgrades. Please post this sort of information there in future for two reasons: 1. If it had not been for the kind people who alerted me to this thread, I would not have seen it, and therefore not been able to help. This gives the impression of bad customer service from my side which is definitely not the case. 2. Many people will see this thread as bad publicity (wether that was your intention or not), and in the end a post like this will only hurt development of the product instead of aiding it. I am trying very hard to work with all the buyers of this product to make it even better, and cater for all of your needs, but I need your help to get there. Please contact me directly with any queries/complaints you may have so I can assist rather than posting this type of thread in a public forum that I may never see. Thanks in advance, Steve

Here is a photo shop tip that might help lower end originals with way to much blur happinin .Before conversion make a new layer add some noise and bring the transparency down till almost rock bottom , then flatten the image and convert. Adding a bit of noise before shrinking or reduceing or altering photo size in jpg mode will give a much better out put.

As to why someone would want to convert V3 maps to V2, I wanted to use all those wonderful Anton makeup heads on my V2 and MilGirl characters. I used the "naked" head texture on a MilPreteen in one of my pictures and I really liked how it turned out. However, there is a line on her foot where the texture map converted. This program may not be perfect but at least it gets the textures close. You can always try copying and pasting the original eyebrows back in in Photoshop. Sure beats trying to convert the whole thing manually.

As has been said before, no texture converter will be perfect. However, the fact that we finally have one at all is amazing. How long have we gone wishing for a Posette to Vicky and vice-versa? For what it does, the accuracy is pretty amazing. I love watching the demo do the remap. I'd really love to see the code he used in the program. I don't have many V2 textures that are any good. I render mostly male characters, so the converter, while on my wish list, isn't on my buy-right-now list. As soon as Steve does a Mike to V3 converter, I'll sell blood to be able to get it. I've got dozens of high res Mike textures I want to use on the V3 male. Yes, this is begging (grin).

Pigfish, Merrilyn was just saying the same thing last night. I keep forgetting that the girls can use V2 maps. :)

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

With everything I've seen here, if I ever do skin textures, I would buy this in a heartbeat. If I even had a larger collection of skins than I do now, it would be worth it to me. The V3-->V2 issues are a little unfortunate and i could see why someone would be disappointed when they expected better results, but it would still be worth it to me.

I attempted to convert a V2 to V3 texture by hand prior to using the converter, and had moderate results after about 5hrs of trying. This will get you either a very usable texture with no modification or very little required. I have several V2 textures from many sources that I did not want to have to either buy again or convert by hand. This is not a perfect product but an evolving one and Dark Whisper is more than happy to hear and impliment our suggestions. One texture runs around $30.00 this program runs about the same but lets you have use of all the public domain V2 textures and any V2 commercial textures you own. Bang for the buck this is the best product for V3 support at the moment. No if we just had someway of feeding in V2 clothing and having it spit out V3 clothing with morphs! Tailor gets close but you still need to tweek.

Good info here about the real necessary original size texture from V2 to V3. I actually got this to convert my Samildanach collection from V2 to V3 - and they are only 1000x1000 or 1500x1500 - disappointing, especially around the mouth and eyebrows. Much the same thing as Serpentis is showing. But LOTS of experimenting yet to do. I'll have to try the different aspect ratio and see if that helps. Converting to a higher resolution than the original helps with the eyebrows I notice, but not very much with the mouth. I look forward to the bmp or tif export too. :-) I think this software will probably develop very nicely over time. I'm glad this thread was posted and got Anton's input, or I would have just had BAD thoughts about my $30. LOL! His info was very valuable. :-) And I LIKE the face skin export a lot. -dg

To prevent the "rings of white around the neck" and white lines along the edge of some textures when converted, set the background for the output to the same color as the edge of the texture itself. I had some that gave me a white line along the edges so I selected the predominate color that was the very edge of the body or head texture(just in from the edge) and set the bgrnd to that color then convert. It gets rid of those unsightly rings around the collar.

I guess I'm just disappointed because I bought the product under the pretense to convert the 2 textures for V3 I have in the works to V2 counterparts becasue it was requested to have both from a couple of friends that do not have V3 yet. I work with a lot with goth/weird makeup characters, not ultra high res photo-realistic stuff. I do think a big help will be importing/exporting tiff files, that way when I import the files I personally created I can save as a non-lossy tiff file and export the same way and resize stuff in Photoshop. Honestly, this was my birthday present to myself and I went to bed rather disappointed. I might hang on to the program a little longer now and see what developments happen. DW, I didn't start this thread as "bad publicity" I wanted to see what other people were doing and how their conversions were coming out. I could have titled the thread something like "Texture Converter sucks" but I didn't. Just the name and ppl who were interested would pop in and give their opinion and maybe post a pic or two of their own conversions. I just wanted the John Q Public response to what I was finding. Kymm

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Yes, tif is by far the most important format to support. I never use bmp. And I only use jpg because I have to, more or less. At max quality always. Actually, PShop PSD support would be even better, but maybe that's impossible? (Layers and all, drooooool....) My textures generally consist of about 20 - 50 layers in PShop, then I flatten with the combination of details/additions I need for a specific character. So the PSD files can be anything up to 300MB... oboy. :] Fish

LOL Fish, PSD would be killer, but I'll settle for tiff and antialiasing

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JPGs are EVIL! Please make it output anything else :P tif at least. I've hit the memory error thing on many maps. Is there a patch yet for it?

Attached Link: http://www.3duniverse.co.za

Lyrra - a patch to fix the memory issue has been available for a while now. Visit my site (link attached) to get it. cheers, Steve

I have been to the site, and for the life of me, can't find any mention of the patch. Probably just overlooking it.

Attached Link: 3D Universe V2-V3 Texture Convertor FAQ forum

It's in the V2-V3 Texture Convertor FAQ forum. cheers, Steve

Thanks! Found it.

ah. Much thanks :)