You all wanted to know what is happening at corel and what the future of Bryce may be. Well I sent Conan Hunter two emails, the second one telling him of the threads here at Renderosity. I sent the second one this morning and here is his reply:- "Warning, be prepared for a shock" Hi Catlin-- Sigh What can I say? I'm not doing Bryce anymore; I'm in Corel's New Ventures group developing new technologies that have nothing to do with 3D... I've even lost my Renderosity login, it's been so long. In fact, nobody is now in charge of Bryce, or working on it. It's on "hold" as far as any work being done on the product. I don't think it's much of an executive topic, either. There's not much more I can tell you from Corel's standpoint; I'm sorry. For myself, I could speak bravely about the state of the technology economy and Corel getting its house in order, and I could go on about the eternal conundrum of Bryce not fitting into a nice tidy demographic for marketing's requirements, and I could even talk about the challenge of splitting Bryce into a professional art package and a kid's version (which was my long-term goal), but, you know, all I can really say is: I miss Bryce, I miss the technology, I miss the art, I miss the community, and I miss all the insanely cool people I got to work with while I was in Bryce's driver seat, and there's nothing I can do about the state of affairs right now but vent a little here and there and deal with all the incoming calls and emails like this I have endured for almost a year with a heavy sigh. No, I don't look into the forums any more, I stay away from the sites; it's kinda painful for me; even if Corel were to begin work on a new version of Bryce, it would in all likelihood be without me, since I am now fully committed to other projects. --Conan, signing off

Sad, absolutely sad.

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What can we do? There must be someone in the organization who we could contact on mass and try to get them to see the possibilities with Bryce. I would truely hate for this to be the end of such a great program, I love it and I love to work with it. If there are no more updates to Bryce what will take it's place?, I don't like Vue or Terragen or Mojoworld, I've tried them and always come back to Bryce. This was a response I didn't want to hear and I am greatly saddened by it. Catlin

There are two people who could possibly pick up Bryce. Ken Musgrave - it is his algorithms that drive Bryce terrains and textures. Eric Wenger - he took Ken's alogrithms and made them into Bryce 1 and 2. Eric has a good thing going at U&I software, but who knows - he might still be interested. Corel is way too focused on survival and office apps and Bryce no longer fits in to their plan. This is sad but Ken or Eric could swoop in and pick it up - you never know. Of course Corel needs to put something out officially and stop waffling about this. Scott

I go back to what I said on the other most recent Bryce update posting: It doesn't fit with what Corel wants to do. Having said that... I think it could be a really cool thing to find a buyer. If anyone has any connection with someone in another company for whom Bryce would be a better fit we should work that angle. PARTICULARLY because if we could pull that off, the new company would have a GREAT marketing campaign right out of the gate..."We bought the product from Corel because the user community asked us to" The trick would probably be that right now Bryce doesn't cost Corel anything...or next to nothing, since there is no work happening on the product. That would mean a potential buyer might have to offer some co-marketing insentives or preferred partneship arrangements...sorry, software development and product marketing have been my gig for too long now. I'll hush. But I really think it could work...

It saddens me to hear that as well. But, when I look at all the new and interesting things people are trying to bend bryce into doing the few months I have been here, even if there is not a bryce 6, I think this place will live on quite a lot longer solely (if necessary) due to the inventiveness and creativity shown by its users, new and old.

Dreams are just nightmares on prozac...
Digital WasteLanD

This is downright depressing! I just can't believe that one of the finest, reasonably priced 3D art packages is going into extinction. There must be someone out there that could take it over!

Oh, the exsisting versions of Bryce will always be used. Ken Musgrave, doubt it. Whatever more he wanted to do with Byrce he instead did with Mojoworld. For him to try and help out Bryce is to create competition with his current product. But, this is just a guess by me. Eric Wenger is knee deep into his audio products, he doesn't really speak of Bryce much anymore in his interviews, even when asked of it. Who knows? Bryce is probably costing Corel a lot. I mean, if they did spend 3 million on it, that is going to cost them until they make than 3 million with Bryce sales. Someone would have to purchase Bryce from them for asking price AND whatever Corel hasn't yet made back, just so Corel could break even. AS

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I IMed Susan Kitchens about this too. Perhaps if people who know a bit more about Bryce than us end users joined us, and we could make a sure fire business proposition to present to all involved, we could maybe persuade someone else to take Bryce on and improve this bleak situation. I think all reasonable propositions should be aired here, and hopefully we can come up with a solid plan of action. Catlin

I know this is grasping at straws, but what if we swamped Adobe?

Adobe would be a closer fit simply due to the fact that more people use PS in post production...or seem to anyway. But Adobe is also going into more of an office application direction and high end artist direction. AS, good call on the cost of the original investment...I was thinking more from a day to day operations standpoint. It kinda depends on how they booked the original purchase, they may have already written it all off as loss. I'm thinking a good fit might be someone more geared toward educational based software. I seem to hear a good deal about school licenses of Bryce.

AS - And Mojoworld sales are through the roof?? You never know - Corel would definitely sell it as a loss and write off the investment so the original buying price would not be what they would get. Before Corel picked up Bryce Eric Wenger was very active on the boards and posted a Father of Bryce post calling it 'his baby' etc. Wenger still owns the rights to his versions of Bryce - only the UI was MCs and Corel's property. Wenger still owns the guts of Bryce so don't count him out. - Scott

So how do we get in touch with these guys?

I wonder what it would take to get everyone together and call a couple of venture cap people? And, if Poser goes cheap, it would be great to integrate them.

If one of us wins the lottery or comes into an inheritance soon we could buy it..........forgive me I like to dream. :} Catlin

Really? (Eric Wenger) Well.....that info helps my funk. I'm not sure if Corel would sell Bryce at a point where they would have yet another loss, while their company is in the red already. But, then again, maybe they would see it as any money coming in would be a good thing, I just don't know. Mojoworld is getting REALLY good reviews, I don't know about sales.

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Venture guys typically won't make a play on a product as much as they will on the leadership of an organization. In this case you'd have to find a VC interested enough to work on doing the buyout from Corel...in order to interest them enough to make that play you'd probably have to show a core group of folks who would run the company after you bought the product. With that core in place it wouldn't be too hard to show a ready user base so the trick would be to find a VC who was cowboy enough to help make the Corel play. If one of the guys mentioned above by AS were interested for example...that might be enough to perk the ears of a VC.

this sucks

well i for one wont be stopping using the versions of Bryce currently available to produce graphics. the only thing i really needed Bryce to do was perhaps some improved modelling and animation apps, like bones etc. but i can combine 3ds imports from rhino or ACAD to get the models i want and i guess i'll have to get around to digging out again and Mastering animation MAster for character work. So i'll still be posting Bryce for many many years. ( Or maybe i should try this Pencil thing i hear its quite adaptive.... tee hee)

Experience is no substitute for blind faith.

http://avalon2000.livejournal.com/ - My Art Blog

http://jeferies.jalbum.net/Richard%20Jeferies%20Future%20Perfect/

You won't be able to stop me from using it, I'm sure most of us feel this way. We'd of course, like to see it continue to grow and assimilate some of the newer 3D technology that exsists today. Just because we all love it, and love using it. Ah, watch Corel make profits this year and start production of Bryce again... I actually don't think they will sell it. Look what they did with Painter and KPT. They held on to that stuff for a long time, now Painter 8 is coming out and KPT is a part of that. AS

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

I love your optimism AS and I agree that if the worst happens it won't stop me using bryce. There are really only two things I would really like to see in a new Bryce and that is a faster render engine and the ability to export my models in another format. Cat

Well this just sucks, hopefully they'll relegate it to procreate and they'll develop Bryce...one can always hope.

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

That's really too bad about Bryce. It's my first 3D digital love and it's sad to see she doesn't have a date for the prom. In my opinion, it was a big mistake for the marketing department of Corel to buy it in the first place. Bryce 5 wasn't a big set-up from Bryce 4.

Writers for the Bryce 4 books (at least the ones I read) said they would wait for a Bryce 6 until they wrote another book because of the minimal new options and features. There were a few and not enough to make it a new book.

I really think that Bryce had serious potential for the pro-users and could have benefited greatly by the creation a Bryce Heavy and a Bryce Lightlong ago.

For individual programmers that previously worked on Bryce to pick it up for nostalgia sake is too far fetched, especially when they have other projects on their plate.

I think the best chance Bryce has for a new home is Curious Labs for integration with Poser. This move would make the most sense given the amount of Bryce/Poser out there. The program could be like Lightwave. A modeler program (Poser) that exports to a scene editor (Bryce) with a virtual Hub in the middle synchronizing the transport.

B

Bryce's best options would be companies like eovia or Curious Labs. And maybe a little un-orthodox: The open source community. I send an e-mail to Ken 'Doc Mojo' Musgrave to let him know about this thread and I asked him if he had any professional knowledge or ideas about what we could do to keep bryce alive. Let's hope he has some killer-ideas.

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

That's great Rayraz, this is what we need to make a realistic impact on the future of Bryce. If we can get folk like Ken involved there might be a chance of reviving interest in the potential Bryce has. Another thing that came to mind was that many prople here are also members of other forums so we could get them involved too. Just a thought, but the more people who are showing an interest in the revival of Bryce the better. Cat

Hypothetically, it might just be that if someone other than Corel owns the rights to the source code, Corel is just waiting for the asking price if that code to go down. If the holder of the source code figures out that the only way to realize any return is to sell the code to Corel at the price Corel is willing to pay, there might yet be hope for Bryce 6. It seems to me that Eric Wenger would be the one to ask about this (as per scotttucker3d).

What about Kai Krause?

You mean the Kai's Tools guy? Sounds good to me.

The reason I mention KK is that he really was the 'face' of bryce at metacreations. Not only was he very active in the graphics community in general but he was responsible for designing the bryce interface. If he was to become involved with bryce again I think it would be more for artistic than commercial reasons. Weather or not he would be interested is another matter, as he seems to be deeply involved in his own projects. This as far as I can work out, is his 'web site'. http://www.byteburg.com/

(sobs)

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy

re: http://www.byteburg.com/ you'l find more info if you clik on the german language link.

My son told me that POSER 5 just got Industrial Recognition 'cos it's used in the movie industry for storyboarding. There's hope for Bryce yet! The Bryster

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

Bites tongue

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

Well we knew it just didnt want to believe it...I say let DAZ try and get it so they can build a module that will let Bryce run as a side application....Well I now know to go into the bigger Apps...I am starting to save for Maya and Imagine...Until the day I can afford the real thing I will start using the Light Versions just to get Recognition in the Industry...Any wyas anyway you look at it Bryce is still one major 3D program and it lighting abilities are boundless...And folks who knows maybe just maybe some Programers will get together to develope MODULES to import animations into Bryce....?

Well, IMHO...fuck Corel! We dont need them! We already have one of the most versatile 3D applications available in our hands! Features, that you need plugins for, in high end apps, are already present in Bryce, and the few things it lacks, we use other programs for! Granted, a faster renderer would be nice, but cpus are getting faster by the week. I for one have only skimmed(?) the surface of Bryces full capability, and have no intention of stop using it. Corel have already proved many times over, that they dont give a crap about us (the users), and if they put Bryce to rest and rely on the crap app Corel Draw to save them, i only say...Good Luck, Corel are doomed already! Now, all i miss is a snapshot of their management, placed next to the word "stupidity", in every dictionary...

Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com

ditto what he said 8D

Attached Link: http://alanbaughman.com/Bryce_5/index.html

I think that there are enough talented programmers out there that plug-ins might be the way to go. They can make them to do almost anything, so why not? Myself, I am very happy with my Bryce 5 and like others, have only scratched the surface of what it can do. I learn at least one new trick every day.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.


Web site: http://screamingidjit.com/

WHO D' MAN!!!!!!!!! Yeah Rochr!! I agree 100%. ROFLMAO

Ack... gotta wonder what the heck that means! What makes this all rather interesting is that in the past, Eric Wegner owned the license to the "core" TE and DTE routines and everything else was presumably owned by MC then Corel. I have no insider info here at all but generally speaking if someone defaults on a license agreement or fails to renew it, it reverts back to the owner. Even though this is just idle specualtion and is hopefully wrong, that would be the most shocking thing that I could imagine. But it wouldn't stop me from using B5 as it is. -Dan

There's actually not anything more I can think of that I'd want from Bryce feature-wise so this isn't necessarily tragic. It's the most STABLE of the programs I use, has a lovely renderer, extremely good texturing options, great animation capabilities... All around a fine, fine product (especially Bryce5 but even Bryce4). By using it with my other 3D apps (Carrara, Amapi, Strata, Poser), I'm pretty much set. So this news, ; no big whoop. However, if you are still a Bryce 4 user, I'd buy Bryce 5 pronto perhaps. : ) Dave

Yeah, it's not like Bryce is incapable of great things without an update. An exmaple I (never shut up about) er, give...is the "Rustboy" 3D animation being made with the long ago abandoned "Infini-D" software. (also originally from MetaCreations) http://www.rustboy.com/ AgentSmith

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Rochr, let it out, man. Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. hehe Haven't been around much lately because the current state of affairs in our country has kept a lot of my former free time occupied. Working in a high activity/target area 2 miles from the scene of Sep 11, has kept my cohorts and I very busy. I see things this way. Yeah, it sucks about Bryce not being further developed in the future, but so what. Look at the things that we have been pumping out in this forum. The artwork here rivals some of the $2000-3000 programs. Look at the work in HDRI that some of our crew has been doing. Amazing isn't it? In a sense, we are being forced to push Bryce past what it's creators originaly intended, but it's by our own choice. Look at some of the textures and models that peopel have been making. Did Corel intend that when they made Bryce? Probably not. What I am saying is what Rochr said, FUCK COREL. Let them come to this forum and see the things that are beign created. Let them go to the galleries and have a look around. We all know there are some artists out there that blow us all away with the work they do. Let's just take Bryce and milk it for all we can and not worry about what some wanker exec thinks should be done.

Because I like to blow $%&# up.

Don't fear the night.  Fear what hunts at night.

Yeah, i tend to get carried away! LOL But seriously, im with you! People here are constantly pushing Bryces bounderies further ahead, so who really knows where its limits are! Bryce will be around, long after the name Corel is forgotten!

Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com

Maybe I should have posted this here: Emotions are running high right now with Catlin's news, but the FACT is Bryce has always been about a Community not an application. This community aspect dates back to 1993-1994 when I was tuckersaur on AOL and the AOL chatroom for HSC/Bryce was jumping with new discovery. Just like you do here - we were constantly pushing each other and what could be created in Bryce. It was the community that pushed Bryce to make ocean waves in Version1. It was the community that pushed Bryce to make an actual working telescope in Bryce2. It was the community that pushed Bryce to make the very first desktop video production of Planetary Traveler. Never lose sight of that - Bryce5 could very well be the last one, but the community will continue to make it viable - the community will continue to make it enjoyable - the community will continue to take it beyond an ordinary piece of software. Without the community Bryce is just a basic 3d program that has no modeler and a slow renderer. Sure it allows model imports, but how on earth did it survive this long? I'll tell you what you already know. It took the community to see that the Terrain Editor is very cool modeler and the skies are a ready made lighting system. It took the community to look past render speed and see the beauty in Bryce renders. In the hands of the community Bryce is religion, Bryce is life! Bryce is who we all are inside. Bryce is the ONLY software I've seen that inspires such loyalty and freedom. It never ceases to amaze me how far the community has taken it. Keep taking it further - rumors of its death are highly premature. Scott : )

Can we get an AMEN!

I think that if Corel had to sell Bryce it should go to DAZ3d because they are actually listening to the customer's input, while other companies (Cough cough Curious Labs cough) will not even consider using OpenGL or releasing sub par programs to make money. :)

Where's the Bryce God when you need him/her! 8D

Well....I can only say I am in shock and I also am willing to get together and buy Bryce with a whole bunch of people...As long as Doc is interested we all should be....

I pledge the cost of my next upgrade in advance to whomever takes it on. I love my Bryce. Nothing will make me part with it!

Hmm...wonder if Corel is going to be represented at Siggraph in SanDiego this year...I know I'll be there anyways... AgentSmith

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Hey tuckersaur...I used to be NOTDAVIDS on AOL...a long time ago...:) Long Live Bryce.... Other than MC going poof, this Corel thing has been about the worst possible outcome for Bryce anyway....Corel has never been in the community spirit....

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Scotttucker you have said exactly what I feel for this program. Before I joined this forum I was really just pottering about with Bryce but here I've been pushed, cajoled, and manipulated into seeing the possibilities of Bryce and I love it. I rejoice in this community and the excitement of discovery experienced by all of us when we learn to do something new. Bryce is a major part of my working life now and I can't see that changing no matter what happens at Coral, I just find it sad that the core programming of Bryce may never advance to the higher level I think could be achieved with it. I guess if Bryce is to advance it would have to be taken on by someone who sees it as a labour of love and saddly I don't think there is anyone with the resourses and ability to take Bryce on who has that kind of feeling for it. Catlin

Kind of figured this might be coming. Sad. Remember all the discussions about who would buy Bryce when MC self destructed? here we go again. . . Maybe Bryce is a bit creaky under the hood code wise, it is quite old and maybe it would have cost too much to bring properly up to date. (that never stopped Microsoft though did it?) i still love it for its possibilities and its interface. Not to mention the great community round this app. i have so many email friends and aquaintances worldwide simply because of Bryce. I think the community would still exist without a new Bryce but without new purchasers it would get a bit insular perhaps? Eric Wenger would make it mac only if he got it in all probablity, not that he's that interested. Mo Musgrave has got quite enough to do right now as it is with MJW. Dunno, Eovia ? They bought Carrara. I think Corel blew it with B5 not offering quite enough in the way of new features, at least ones that those with slow computers could use, and then the market went into freefall and bryce didn't fit in to any corperate plan any more. Sad sad sad. . . . I'm still making mats though as long as anyone wants them. . . ;-) Jonathan

I for one am anxious to see what Corel has to say,And yes we could get the 2 million and if it came from Microsoft I wouldnt complain....IF....The right folks were put in charge,like Doc and Eric or even if every user of Bryce gave 5$ we would have more then enough to buy the Proggy rights...BUT then you would have all of us who would want a say and that wont work,we would need certain folks in Charge...OH heck here you go...If all of the past buyers(Several Hundred Thousand according to Corel) put up 5$ they would get a confirmation code in the Mail that would give them 50$ off the price of either the upgrade or the full product for Bryce6,And this would let us work on the code to implement Poser Animations and also let us work on Exporting whole scenes from other programs into Bryce...IE Poser Animations.....Also recodeing Bryce might be an option if we get the rights,this way we would be able to implement most everything Bryce users want...I for one will send the Money....I will start hitting all of the heavy hitters in town and see what can happen...

This is an idea that lots of folk would like to see but as ever it depends on so many factors coming together and working. 1.we need the financing be it corporate or a hat collection among Brycers, (maybe some Posers too). 2.we need someone who will look after the funds and coordinating the purchase of the Bryce code, someone trustworthy. 3.we need to find the programmers who have the skills and are willing to modify the code for love and not for money. 4.we need to know what folk would like to see in a new Bryce and decide what is possible. and there are many more posibilities to take into consideration before we get off the starting line. Who knows for sure what is possible but there is a lot of talent here and people who work in many areas of business who could perhaps be encouraged to get together and make this a reality. Catlin

Lets get a bit more realistic...I seriously doubt Renderosity, 3DWorld and Computer Arts have anywhere near 100k per month in printings, heck, probably far less. (versus millions). I also doubt that there is even 50k users still using Bryce. Most people probably bought 4, used it, and a small percentage bought 5. I bet you would be lucky to even FIND ten thousand Bryce users let alone get them to donate $100+. Maybe some of the users here should get together and work with Doc, Eric & Corel to make a few plugins or stand alone programs to export terrains and models. Sell that on Renderosity and see if you have any buyers. If only a couple hundred buy it then sadly, Bryce will die. I would love to see a Bryce 6 too, but I'm a developer (ColdFusion & Flash) and I can tell you that development costs are far higher than most anticipate, take far longer, and tend to fail far more often than all would like. For all of you saying how much farther you have pushed Bryce than was ever anticipated...maybe Bryce should die a sweet death...consider spending your hard earned $ on a product with a larger user based and more refined code. Imagine what the true artists in all of you could do with a Lightwave, 3D Max, Maya, etc!!! If you think you are making Bryce sing, imagine using something far more powerful. Sure, it costs a lot, but it might be worth it.

I already tried Lightwave and half a dozen other "hi-end" 3D programs and they basically suck. The most basic features are implemented in an unnecessarily complex fashion. Put another way, they are poorly thought out and hard to use. It's like getting a new 900 hp super car with every luxury imaginable, but you need a week to find the steering wheel and a year to figure out how to drive it to the grocery store. Power and features do not justify a poor interface.

"An Example is worth Ten Thousand Words"

...OR, it might not! I can only speak for myself, but as a hobbyist, $2000-5000 is a shitload of money to spend on a single app. Some nice plugins, another ?K! I think that people that in the end chooses Bryce, does this because its cheap, its fun and easy to use but also because it CAN produce high quality renders once youve learned it well enough! It might take longer to do some stuff in Bryce, but that doesnt mean its impossible. You can model most stuff with primitives and metaballs, lighting can be faked etc. For me personally, one of the most important factors is to have fun, and out of all the trials and apps, ive tested, Bryce is the only one that really puts a smile on my face! No offence meant Hartwichr, this is just my personal thoughts. :)

Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com

Do I smell a Cross Program Challenge?Lets Rock and Roll....Time to play again....

3D Studio is a great application with many bells and whistles with a fairly large learning curve attached to it. I've used it for many years with a fair amount of success. Yes, very expensive and the better plug-ins go for an arm and a leg. The problem I have with 3D Studio is that to create a landscape scene, for instance, you have to walk around the corner over the hill and through the pond instead of just having to go across the street which is what Bryce offers the user right out of the box. And if you just want to create landscapes or seascapes, some still life and indoor scenes why should you be forced to shell out thousands of dollars when Bryce can offer you that with the ease of a finger touch away and at a fraction of the price? Bryce is the software package that broke ground and inspired others to mimic its essence and launched other copycat packages into existence.

I can't say that this is was a surprise to me - from metacreations, an off the wall, out there, and ingenious company to...well...Corel! - didn't think it would work, and Bryce 5 kinda proved it. Here's the good news - You still have Bryce 4 & 5, they'll never get faster at rendering (other than with better processors), but they'll still work as they ever did - so no actual loss there! Sure, somebody paying attention, ironing out bugs, and actually trying to make it better would be ideal, but that requires a company with vision, creativity OR previous experience with this market. I for one wont stop using Bryce, it's still my favourite app for 3D image creation, but equally, once you have learned enough to realise it's real limitations, and see how much better it CAN be elsewhere, Bryce may start to become a warm fuzzy memory! :)

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

Righttttt.I still have yet to find a program that actually does it all like Bryce,The only real things Bryce needed to stay in the main stream was OBJ export and Animation import...The Partical system I have done works fairly well and I am always trying to find ways to make it work better...AS for Bryce becoming a FUZZY memory...Wont happen because I will always use Bryce at leaste for its Material and DTE not to mention the ability to export Landscapes into other 3D programs....Like Lightwave,Max,Imagine,and of course MAYA....

Brian - I wasn't playing down the merits of Bryce - I am one of the first to shout at those that pull it down - and I have always agreed that 'it's not the tools - it's the craftsman' - as I said - I will always use Bryce for both illustration and landscape creation, because I am so comfortable with it, and can get results fast. I also know what I have to consider or compensate for with it, but what I meant was, a lot of the things people want from Bryce develpment will most likely never see fruition, and are done much better elsewhere anyway! I always wished I could export models out of it after the hours I spent making grouped booleans etc, but at the end of the day - Bryce is not a modeller as such, and once you use another package, be it LW, Max, Cinema, Rhino etc, you obviously realise how much more powerful and easier it is to create meshes outside, and import them in to Bryce scenes. Render times will always be my only 'real' issue with Bryce, especially if you want the benefit of global light or soft shadows - something that can take only minutes in other renderers like Cinema etc. I hope, as mentioned elsewhere, Pandromeda or someone with equal ingenuity take it under their wings and give it the respect and development it deserves, but even if they dont, it will still exist and work the way it always does! - I still have my 14 year old Airbrush and compressor - they are the same reliable tools they ever were! :)

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

I believe I will always use Bryce, but I said the same thing about VistaPro4, and now I can't even remember where I placed those 2 CDs. Shame on Corel! Fernando

CHRIST ON A BIKE! I have only been using Bryce about a year so I am a relative newcomer to digital art, and now those bastards at corel crap are yanking the rug from under me and thousands of others. I guess they are distincly unfamiliar with terms like "user base, support community and loyal users" Back stabbing shitkickers! I feel gutted by this news. I hope they all rot in linux hell. Bryce has always offered maximum pleasure and satisfaction for beginners and experts alike, that has always been a part of its attration and its strengths unlike others apps. I've tried fiddly 3D max, Mucked about with maya and had the Vue from the bridge of eons nice app, but bryce always brings home the bacon. The price was right, the interface was great, the varid quality of the software shone through and not to mention the communities out there that love it. What can you say.... Corel, if you murder bryce we'll hate you forever. Think about it.

Yes I know what you mean Kromekat I use Truespace for all of my Modeling now and I will move on to MAYA as soon as I can get the money saved up...I love the way I can set up a scene in another program and then Import into Bryce to use the Lighting and the Texture Editor not too mention the Lanscapeing abilities...So on and upward while still useing Bryce...

This is turning into one hell of a debate. For me, if it was not for Bryce I would never have bought Rhino. I never thought I could model anything but then Bryce showed me otherwise. This warm, fuzzy memory thing is true, if Corel drops Bryce we will always have the tools as they stand now and look at the joy that gives us all. But one day we will have computers that will turn round and say "what is that" and won't be able to run it. Well I guess for real world work other apps will do a bettr job in some areas but I still come back to Bryce for lots of things I can't do effectively elsewhere. Cat

Well I'm a former Bryce owner, now Vue owner, but...this news saddens me. I'm sorry to hear this, but never liked Corel anyway; the first time I had a software problem it took 6 months of constant emails to get a proper reply, and then their suggestion did not work :o( Before I forget...I keep seeing people mention that people will always use Bryce 4 or 5 while they have their installation CD's. I think you'll find that newer Operating Systems (especially Windows) will be moving to 64bit, and I'm not sure how compatability will effect older programs. I do hope someone does come in to save Bryce, then I may start using it again :o) Cheers

 

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--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

Maybe one day someone will make an emulater for it..........8) Cat

Compability is one future problem, you are correct! However, theres nothing that prevents you to have 2 separate operatives in one machine. One new, and one older one!

Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com

Old machines become renderfarm slaves and bridges to old technology. I still have on old souped-up Powermac 9600 (g4 upgrade card) that runs the old OS and a UMAX SCSI scanner. That thing will run old versions of Bryce for awhile, and it is still a useful machine ; ) Scott

That makes me feel a whole lot better. I have a whole load of parts to make all sorts of basic machines and it's good to know that as computer technology advances into the unknown my old, old, ancient (said with a shakey old voice), Bryce will still be around to amuse/bemuse the grandchildren. :) Cat

Here is a little bedtime horror story I intend to email to Corel. One day poor little Bryce was out in the cold looking for a place to stay, when along came the corporate monster, Corel who took Bryce in. Bryce was a little unsure of its new host as it had heard horrid tales, but it was a port in a storm so had to risk it. All seemed peachy and well. Bryce was allowed a small growth spurt by the monster and the future seemed okay if not a little ambiguous. Then one dark day the monster, Corel, was checking over its ledger of blood and was amazed by how much red blood there was on the books, The monster had been a little too divergent in its eating practices so decided something drastic must be done to get the books out of the red. The monster had a long conference with itself which involved plotting poor Bryces murder and plenty of self-congratulation. After the meeting the monster, Corel, called Bryce over to it. The monster made small gestures of concern and affection for Bryce and waited for the right moment. Then suddenly and with neither provocation nor warning, the monster plunged a knife into Bryces back and twisted. Shock! Poor Bryce was defenceless against such a large, ugly monster, and promptly fell to the ground mortally injured. The monster was quite smug and self-satisfied with its work. It shoved Bryce in a small, dark corner and said nothing of the incident to anyone. A few weeks went by and the monster finally began to indicate to the outside world that poor Bryce was very sick and may soon pass from sight from its beloved users and fans. After that, people were shocked to their very cores by poor Bryces demise. They wept, got angry and even looked longingly at other 3D apps until they came to their senses. They needed to know how this had happened. Surely the monster had promised to look after poor Bryce when it had invited it in? Slowly but surely, the real story of what had befallen Bryce began to leak out. The monster, Corel, had enemies from within and they did not like what had happened to their friend, Bryce, and made sure the world knew about it. Once the multitudes of Bryce lovers, enthusiasts and fans the world over realised the true story of Bryces horrible death, they rose up like a dark army of discontented crows and dumped on Corel the only way they knew how. They never went to the monster again for any of its other crap products nor would they recommend them to anyone. They began to spread the word far and wide that the monster, Corel, was not to be trusted, especially with financial affairs or other software. Who knew who the monster would bump off next? Eventually the monster became thinner and thinner as it tried to clear all that red blood from the books. The lean times set in as former friends and customers stayed away, and eventually the ugly monster, Corel, ceased to exist, disappearing into a puff of smoke up its own backside. Much rejoicing ensued, especially by lovers of Bryce, whom had not forgotten the monsters old treachery THE END.

Three cheers all around for the great story from firewall. So now what?? Back to the land of reality. I recently discovered, over the weekend actually, that one of my friends knows some folk on the developement side of Corel he would be willing to put folk over the coals and get information for us, so if anyone has any specific questions I'll tell him to start the interogation. So what does the forum have for me to ask?, mind you we got to be civilized here.........ok, let the questions roll. :) Cat

I would ask that they simply do the right thing, and hand Bryce over to a youger, creative company whose employees were not just Harvard computer nerds, but artistic nerds that had experimented a little with chemicals, and sat on the top of mountains now and again just saying "wow!....wow!" that might help! :)

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

We would just like some answers...And as many as Possible...

Had all development of Bryce been stopped? How much was developed for Bryce 6 (i.e. near release)? Has Brian Wagner(B2-B5), Todd Bogdan (B3) and Josh Bates (b4) been let go as "consultants" (the guys that know the most about the Bryce code)? Not a question but a comment - the 3 guys above with John Feld (B3-B4) as Product Manger and Meredith Keiser (B2-B4) in QA would be my Bryce "dream team". As Doc Musgrave once commented about Bryce " the engineers are more valuable than the code itself" Thanks for trying to get this info Cat!

I've had contact with beta-tester for Bryce 6, looks like it was in some level of testing for about 6 months, then Sept 11th happened. AgentSmith

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

To be honest, I do not think some of these corporate nerds know what they are dealing with. They spend so much time locked up in their ivory towers surrounded by accountants and yes men. They are so far removed from real Bryce lovers and the huge fan base, it would never ever occur to them what they are undertaking in this action. I would like to know if Corel is prepared to move the product on, or merely engage in endless rhetoric about the matter. They are not saying much at the moment, allowing others to draw many meanings from the silence. Are their intentions honest or just driven by a sudden need to placate the voices of discontent? That would be a start at least. If Bryce can be allowed to find a new home and Corel are prepared to signal such, then plans regarding a new buyer will take on more rational solidity.

I can remember only one time that we have ever heard anything from Corel, other than press releases. That was when Renderosity had the "Spotlight with Conan Hunter". And, he himself is a Bryce user/lover, and had great/logical plans for Bryce. He just doesn't hold the reins, is all. I'm not sure even if/when Corel gets back up financially they will want to keep Bryce. The best bet right now, is for another interested party to buy Bryce off of Corel now, as they are financially in the red, to get Bryce for much less. Corel has looked to sell Bryce in such a manner, and there has been interested parties, it just hasn't worked out. Keep your fingers crossed and wait....;o)

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

I think the people my friend has contact with want to come forward and say what is happenning but cannot openly identify themselves for fear of corporate reaction. This is why they're coming here through me. As is the case in many corporations not all the staff agree with company policy, the same could be said of countries and governments. So if you have legitimate questions I'll ask them on behalf of us Brycers. The more truths we know as a comunity the better position we are in, I think, for doing something positive about it. Wouldn't you agree? Cat

I think the question in general is; has there been any change with the status of Bryce, meaning, Is Corel going to sell? Hold onto? Undecided? Does Corel have ANY thoughts on Bryce at this time? Or, can those questions even be answered at this time? AS

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

My 2 cents worth: It is almost certain that Bryce is for sale, but my guess is that it will have to be for a considerable sum. While it seems that corel is not spending any time or effort supporting the product, and as we have heard the development and management of the product have gone, then it is languishing. But Corel does need money, but a hundred thousand will not make a huge difference to them. They wil probably need considerably more, (and in US dollars too!). For them to get attorneys and all the legal stuff in gear will cost them a lot, and my guess the only people who can get this together would be Doc Mojo with the help of some deep pockets. It needs real entusiatic management and engineering, with a real marketing savvy. No one will make any money making a version 6 if it does not get a huge audience of first time buyers. Upgrades to us guys will never make enough to make it profitable, unless they cahrge us $200 dollars or something more. So there has to be a way to reach a whole new audience. This will probably mean reworking the application from scratch, with new code and a new interface and somehow making it either dumb enough for a lot of people new to graphics or put some real Web utility into it. Problem is, this is not the Bryce we want for the most part. I do have ideas on how to make it a worthwhile application, as probably do most of you. But it all starts with the money. Consider a years development with about six people: 4 coders, 1 interface person and 1 prod mgr. that is all extra cash needed before any marketing and sales, then the cash will arrive. Maybe what can be done with bryce to make it more mainstream and continue the tradition is worth a new thread? Regards

I think that CG magazines would be interested in this little flurry of the loyal Bryce users up in arms at the possible demise of their fav program. A few interviews with those involved and those interested in purchase and of course the loyal fans would perk the interest in this humble little program or "Bryce the Giantslayer" as we fans call it, introducing a new generation to the Bryce experience. But maybe that kind of move would have to wait until Doc was in a better financial position and Corel more desperate for it to work effectively. Gosh, I think maybe I should go into marketing. 8) Cat

Could go either way. If this was highly publicized, maybe some big company would see that, come along, outdo Doc Mojo, and buy Bryce. Then proceed to screw it up, lol. Maybe Corel would finally see the support for Bryce and decide to not to sell it at all. Ah, Who knows? Either way, I think everyone should know how much of a following Bryce still has. To be honest, I would rather see Doc or even Curious Labs own and further develop Bryce, than anyone else. AgentSmith

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Whoa! Johnfeld - nice to see you - haven't seen you since Brycecamp Ojai. For those who don't know John was product manager of Bryce for Metacreations during Bryce4 - and we all know a lot of cool things came out of 4. Nice to hear your take on all this, John. - Scott

AgentSmith, last night I had a look in the Maya forum and as usual with every forum there was a newbe there asking questions. Nothing unusual there I here you say, but the guys in the know all said they had started out with 3D in, go on guess which app, that's right little old Bryce. So there you go, from little acorns sprout mega oaks. 8) TA,DA...........what a great program to start out with too. Cat

Oh, sure, lol. I tell my friends, "start with Bryce, here, sit down, click this click that, now hit the render button" "Wow, COOL!!" (as they render their first chrome sphere, lol.) Bryce gives enough immediate visual results, that people don't get frustrated as quickly, IMO. Instead of their first step in 3D being a 4 hour modeling session ending with a flat 2 color rendering of a hex nut...they get a first step in Bryce in a couple minutes with the old plane of water, chrome sphere, and their choice of sky, voila! A happy face, usually a "COOL!!", and then very quickly on to the second step with the relief of no frusration, just learning with quick visual results. It makes a difference. Bryce, Poser, and similar; lot of 3D for your buck, best way to start, IMO!! AgentSmith

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Well I never though I could model to save myself but Bryce made me realise the impossible, sometimes is possible. Now TT and I have been working towards getting Maya and we're close, that's why I popped into their forum. Got to say though that in comparison Maya is like a ghost town with a cold wind running through it, there doesn't seen to be too many people involved there. Which makes me think that it wouldn't matter which other program I get involved with "This Forum" is still the best. Beats the rest of them hands down and that's thanks in a big way to you and Clay so thank you very much for your effort and untempered patience. Cheers and a big hug. Cat 8)

Awww. Thanks so much...and you're welcome. AS

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

{I would rather see ... Curious Labs own and further develop Bryce,} Eeek - now you are getting desperate!!! {Bryce gives enough immediate visual results, that people don't get frustrated as quickly} Yep - that's exactly what enticed me in, and made the whole thing accessable. {Which makes me think that it wouldn't matter which other program I get involved with "This Forum" is still the best.} Try Cinema 4D and their forum! - I love Bryce for the same reasons everybody else does, and I also feared the higher end apps, until C4D! - plus their forum is full and quite active! :)

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

Curious Labs : Name any other former MetaCreations product that has done as well as Poser has in CL's hands*. Painter? Also owned by Corel...(at least they're coming out with an update for that...) (*That's the one thought that makes me think of Curious Labs owning Bryce) C4D, seriously considering making this my leap into the higher-end world. AS

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Ok fair point there AS! - but equally, what DID CL do with Poser? - poser 4.03 was the last Metacreations version - then we had the ProPack plugin from CL, but then...5 - and that looks to have been a disaster really, so it's not like they took it a great deal further!? yes - C4D (IMO) has the most approachable interface to go with it's amazing toolset. Couple that with the fact that it's the fastest (and one of the nicest in it's league IMO) renderers, and you'll be away with the fairies! :)

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

Just a thought: What about the folks at World Builder combining their product with Bryce? I know that we (Bryce team at Meta) always had respect for what thos guys were doing, and World Builder 3.5 has some dynamite features I would live to see in Bryce.

From my experience Worldbuilder is very pewerful and advanced, but using its interface is a genuine nightmare from hell. Now if we had the power of Worldbuilder and C4D added to Bryce... that would be something dreams are made of.

"An Example is worth Ten Thousand Words"

The thing about bryce as mentioned here, are those quintessential attributes that have always made it so readily accessible. I started using it about a 14 months ago and looked at the opening window with a mixture of wonder and fear, yet soon the fear was dispelled and the wonder has never left me. Its ease of use and acceptable learning curve along with its strength in depth have always been a mainstay of the program. Add to that the fanbase and loyal user support that Bryce has imbued throughout the web and you have something that is just too darned good to kill off. Bryce is a definition of creativity and artistic endevour. Sure, there are other apps, but they leave me cold and without inspiration. I have always viewed the more expensive modelling programs with a degree of apathy. Yet having said that I have just ordered Vue d'esprit and 3D max. If Bryce is to eventually go, then diversification in creation as a user may be the only way to stay ahead of the corporate hacks who see little more than the next fiscal quarter in front of them.

{I have just ordered Vue d'esprit} I bought it a few months ago, as I have long admired much of the painterly landscapes produced with it, but I havent had the time to explore it properly. It is no where near as inviting as Bryce though, despite its faster renderer and nicer skies. Bryce will always remain so much more than a landscape app, and if a look in the 2 galleries shows how much more diverse artists are with Bryce than Vue.

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

I agree. In one Brycecamp alone we had people creating fish with terrains, cartoon characters with primitives, and even a working kaleidoscope. Bryce just totally invites all this experimentation from its friendliness and real feedback. I have Vue too and I agree the skies are amazing but the UI is very funky and the terrain editor just makes soft looking terrains regardless of the resolution. The texture editor is pretty good but doesn't have nearly the range of possibilites we have in the DTE. Vue will probably great a few versions from now. Vue has the advantage of being written when there was already modern architecture and this is the problem that john feld and others mentioned about Bryce. Underlying architecture is yet another reason why Bryce is so far behind of other apps using modern features - like MP threads and faster rendering schemes. The last total rewrite of Bryce was Bryce3 and that beta was a nightmare!!! - Scott

CuriousLabs; yeah, they did bring out a bug-ridden Poser 5, and that rubs on customer satisfaction big time. But, CL seems to be fairly aggresive in making things right, and I'm sure it eventually will be. (eventually) Right now, I'm tempting myself with buying Poser 5, since Amazon has it for $150. And, like I said, I'm sure eventually CL will iron everything out. But, then there is DAZ studio to wonder about... AS

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I believe Bryce will always be used, period. It's like the developers of Bryce stumbled upon some secret 3D power, that even (something like) 6 years after Bryce 3 came out, people are still using it, and Bryce's user base, resources, and even the gallery is as big as it is. Oh, if I could onlyhave my Bryce knowledge I have now, back when I had actually bought Bryce back in 2000...I mean if I could have uploaded Bryce pics with hdri workarounds 3 years ago...oh, the mind boggles. I keep wondering what more I can do with Byrce, but just haven't figured out yet. AgentSmith

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

From what I've gleaned from my friend it would appear that since times are tough for Corel there is a good chance they would sell Bryce to put something back in the coffers, and I think this would be more likely since at present they don't appear to have any future plans for Bryce. The patch for Bryce 5 was the last work to be done on the program and since many of the developers were laid off last summer I don't think any more work was completed for a Bryce 6. Also there didn't appear to be any developers brought in from outside the company to continue work on Bryce, this would have cost a fortune to do anyway and I don't think Corel have the finances for that at the moment. From everything my mate has told me it would appear that the developers of Bryce were/are as dedicated to the program as we are, but because times are very hard economically for Corel they had to let the developers go and as Bryce is not included in Corel's future plans, no more work is being done on it. Folk who have an interest in aquiring Bryce basically have a similar problem as Corel itself, the venture capital isn't there, and there's another point, many people would like to own Bryce the name but not Bryce the program and we should all be careful about who we choose to trust with the use of our money to develop Bryce. One thing I was warned about was that putting money into buying Bryce would have to be done as an investment program with all the contracts etc. that accompany such an action, then we would have the assured knowledge of what we would be getting in return otherwise we could end up throwing good money after bad and not get the program we want in return. This brings me back to a point I made earlier and that is that we would need someone trustworthy to organise this and it would be asking a lot of someone to do this. I hope this has answered some of peoples questions and if there is anything else anyone would like to know either write here or IM me. I'll also put this in a new thread to keep everyone informed. Cheers Cat

From what I've gleaned from my friend it would appear that since times are tough for Corel there is a good chance they would sell Bryce to put something back in the coffers, and I think this would be more likely since at present they don't appear to have any future plans for Bryce. The patch for Bryce 5 was the last work to be done on the program and since many of the developers were laid off last summer I don't think any more work was completed for a Bryce 6. Also there didn't appear to be any developers brought in from outside the company to continue work on Bryce, this would have cost a fortune to do anyway and I don't think Corel have the finances for that at the moment. From everything my mate has told me it would appear that the developers of Bryce were/are as dedicated to the program as we are, but because times are very hard economically for Corel they had to let the developers go and as Bryce is not included in Corel's future plans, no more work is being done on it. Folk who have an interest in aquiring Bryce basically have a similar problem as Corel itself, the venture capital isn't there, and there's another point, many people would like to own Bryce the name but not Bryce the program and we should all be careful about who we choose to trust with the use of our money to develop Bryce. One thing I was warned about was that putting money into buying Bryce would have to be done as an investment program with all the contracts etc. that accompany such an action, then we would have the assured knowledge of what we would be getting in return otherwise we could end up throwing good money after bad and not get the program we want in return. This brings me back to a point I made earlier and that is that we would need someone trustworthy to organise this and it would be asking a lot of someone to do this. I hope this has answered some of peoples questions and if there is anything else anyone would like to know either write here or IM me. I'll also put this in a new thread to keep everyone informed. Cheers Cat

Nothing to add except the weight of an extra voice. This is all so depressing, as I feel as if I'm only just now getting warmed up to the darn thing. I'm a pessimist by nature, but I'll keep a-hopin' and a-prayin' for a positive outcome, and at worst maybe I can get some advice as to which other graphics program is sufficiently similar in price and operation so as to ease my learning curve :o( Waxy

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=107&Form.ShowMessage=1161488

Waxtadpole take a look at this link, Doc Mojo of Pandromeda has some interesting things to say about Bryce if he can get hold of it from Corel. Cat

Bryce rules and if corel isn't paying the well deserved attention to the top software in their hands it's to bad for them. I will keep brycing with or without corel.

Doc-tor Mo-jo Ri-sin'!...