Ed I think Alias (below) has come up with the best idea so far when he suggested getting friendly with the 3D cafe and maybe even hooking up with them, and most importantly, developing a broader based CG Store. Look at it this way, what is your greatest asset in all of this? Your membership of 15,000 and growing. Now while this is a Poser site, Poser by its nature requires other programs to create models and develope characters. As a result of this you have put up Forums for Rhino, 3D Studio Max, Photoshop, Paintshop Pro, Vue etc. etc. You in effect provide free support pages for those programs and thus promote and encourage people to purchase them and use them. On the basis of that huge publicity you get those programs and this sites very large and active membership, you could ask those cash rich companies to pay a certain ammount each year to help this site cover its costs (maybe even the server or bandwidth costs). Remember unlike other sites for users who already have those programs, this is in many ways virgin territory for those companies, a new market with potential for new customers. And it is not just the core programs but also the many companies developing plug-ins, textures and models who might be intersted in advertising or promoting their products in this new market. You may have to physically restructure the forums to do this, but it might be worth it. As regards a donation box I agree with your sentiments Ed, it is a risky idea that may just peeter out. Membership fees are likely to be an even more divisive issue than the Store. I personally have nothing against them but I think you will loose members and thus your greatest asset. Worse you may drive those lost members to other sites, making them more competitive and doing damage to yourselves and this site's ability to tap into the commercial world in the long run. The CD idea is worth trying. Here is a slight refinement. You have huge galleries, far too much stuff for most of us to wade through. Why not issue a six-monthly rlease of the best of the stuff in there. It is a low cost idea. Pick the artworks you would like to feature, e-mail the artists for permission to put their stuff on CD (most will agree because they want to show their stuff) and sell the CDs for 10$ or whatever it costs to produce and make a modest profit on. Hell Amazon might even put it on their listings as might the 3D Cafe etc. Just my few thoughts on the issue. STORM