Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=362866

Ok, normally I don't care if I get a comment on my images that say it needs work or is a bit off - that's how we all get better - from constructive feedback. If I was a heavy woman I would have been hurt by the comments on my latest image "Roman Rubenesque *nude*" the commentor has insulted the image - not because it is of poor quality (though it isn't fabulous) but because it features a heavy nude woman. Now if a person is offended by a heavy nude woman why view an image with the words "rubenesque" and "nude" in the title?? Originally I contacted clint about the comment as I didn't want it to create flames under the image by follow-up posters. But then I got to thinking - what constitutes "art"? Now I'm not talking about which program is used or if it is oil or computer generated, but the subject matter itself. Is a heavy naked woman less "art" than a naked skinny - just past adolescence girl is? Is using Mike less artistic than using vicky? Portrait images less artistic than gothic prison/temple scenes? If you dislike a specific subject matter and choose to view it should you really lower rankings when your dislike has nothing to do with the actual processing of the image? I frankly don't care much about the lowering of my ranking on the image - but it just points out a biasness towards weight by the commentor. Had the comment said - "The use of colour in a black and white image is really detracting" I'd have been fine with that as it was based on the image itself and not a biasness towards heavy people. What constitutes art?

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Well I viewed your picture and I think it is wonderful...as for comments left to you, I don't agree with that kind of comment personally, it doesn't serve any purpose to the artist or others that view it. Sharen

In some cultures weight is a sign of presteige. This lady is a queen. We have enough young girls suffering from illness due to a belief that only 1 body shape is acceptable. I applaud you for seeing beauty in the diversity of shapes. Bravo

Some people are just closed minded and refuse to recognize that beauty has many forms shapes and sizes. There is more than one type of woman and each is beautiful in their respect. Wonderful image!! Keep them coming.

LSM - I think your character is wonderful and so is the image itself - great job! Why let the opinion of someone like that faze you?

The commenter is probably just some naive kid, who believes everything the media feeds him. not worth worrying about. Nice pic BTW.

LadySilverMage, I normally stay out of these discussions but this sort of continuing bias really pisses me off. I personally think the figure in your image has amazing proportions...IMHO she's beautiful! If people don't like what they see, they can hit the back button on their browser, simple as that. There are post like this all the time, my 'art' was critised for being crap, porn, fairies, etc...the list goes bloody on and on, usually it ends up in flames and locked threads. I feel in this case you've posted a very mature, concise and well supported argument and legitimate question...I hope it remains a civil discussion. Point being: The interpretation of art is relative...its art if you truly feel it is.

BRAVO - your character features a very rubenesque character who looks healthy and at home with herself. I think the pic is wonderful. We need more real looking characters like this. I 2 am sick of sticks... as a 45 year old woman - can guarantee you that I am not 5'7" 110lbs anymore but am much healthier 140lbs and more SELF SATISFIED with the heftier size which finally gave me boobs and hips and nobody calls me toothpick legs anymore (thank god sister cant call me thunder thighs though;-D)!! Keep up the GOOD work - the fools who can't see beauty in all shapes and forms are not worth your time or effort and probably have no idea what a woman looks like outside of an advertisement or porno site/mag. Good Luck!

Apparently overweight women are the last group of people for whom it is considered permissable to make fun of and discriminate against (I cringe every time a fat woman joke is trotted out in a sitcom...it's pathetic that people have so little imagination). It's really sad, and shows the shallowness, insecurity, and limitations of the person who posted. It says nothing about the beauty and elegance of your graphic. Wonderful portrayal, and there's nothing the galleries need more than variety. I'm glad you posted it.

There is tremendous bias in the 'western world' against big, beautifully curvy women. Every time that I encounter it, I'm still slightly shocked by its vehemence...almost as if a big woman frightens or somehow pushes buttons in insecure people of any sex. Makes me wish I'd been there to ask, er....Darkstarhellion a couple of questions. Like: Are you by any chance an adolescent male? Or perhaps just at an emotional age that approximates adolescence? Did you feel uncomfortable looking at a representation of a female who out-weighs you and is possibly stronger than you are? And, as you pointed out, LadySilverMage, they chose to view the image despite the description you provided. So they deliberately exposed themself to something that disturbs them...sounds kinda kinky to me ;)

What's really funny, or maybe even sadder, some of those who have the prejudice the most are overweight men (and not very attractive ones at that)....so it's okay to be a fat male but, heaven forbid, you be a large woman. The mentality speaks for itself.

Trolling is one thing to get annoyed with, but a negative comment? So what? If it bothers you that much, don't enable comments. Or perhaps just tell people to only leave positive comments in the notes section.

Kinky is GOOD! Ok. let's say Patricia is right and the disturbance is "KINKY." Now we're getting somewhere. A good kink gets harder to find all the time. If you have acomplished that hat's off to you.

well it looks better than I do LOL I think it is apalling how you are disregarded if you are not the "ideal",weight. We are not all the same and thank god for the diferences I say..

Oh, let the sun beat down upon my face. I am a traveler of both time and space ....Kashmir, Led Zeppelin

fls13 - I don't mind negative comments at all. I appreciate constructive critiscism to be honest. I have heard great constructive comments that have only helped me to improve or look at things with a different eye. I began doing heavier women for fun - something different than my usual, I knew in doing so that the "subject" wouldn't appeal to everyone, but honestly if one is going to use the feedback form why not use it as intended - for constructive comments. Saying that heavy women are something to be hidden and that those who like them are "perverse" is not commentary on the work but on the model. It isn't about a negative comment - it's about the concept of art. Frankly I would almost consider the comment to be trolling - a person finds heavy naked people distasteful and they choose to view and comment knowing ahead of time what the image is about? But I do believe it is a good basis for discussions on subject versus talent/processing. Whish is it that we expect?

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

that should read "which is it" :-O

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

There are any number of people here who will complain about a lack of "art" in the galleries...but some of these will make non-art related remarks about subjects that don't reflect their own notions of beauty (and who declared that only beauty is the only allowable theme for a graphic). It is a narrowness of vision that is self-limiting. The theory is that people who participate in the galleries should be imaginative and creative, but yet they cut themselves off from all but a narrow band of permitted topics by insisting such things as, it must be about whatever their particular obsession is. There is nothing creative or imaginative about forcing my prejudices on someone else. And, I admit, there are subjects I find boring and redundant on the galleries...and I will say freely they aren't my thing...but I don't leave comments on the graphics saying that the person shouldn't do what they like. If the person in question had commented on the artistic merit of the graphic, that's one thing. But he commented on the weight of the subject, which is not relevant to the graphic as a piece of art. So he only wants boringly identical women in graphics...fine, but what kind of criticism is that because someone dares to be original and different? As a woman of size, I refuse to stay hidden for the sake of pleasing a bigot.

I have looked at your image, and I think your style of colorizing a B&W image is neat. Interesting that the colors used on the bowl are the same as lips and eyes. As for trolls, I think you simply ran into an individual who understood the word 'nude' and had no concept of 'Rubenesque.' He was therefore stunned to come across your larger than waif character. Keep up the good work. Don't let the small minds get you down.

The term "Rubenesque" derives from the Flemish painter Peter Paul Rubens (1577 - 1640) who frequently painted women of substance, so there's an artistic precedent right there. :-) We could all wish for nothing but constructive criticism in the galleries (nothing but praise is asking too much, LOL), but human nature being what it is, there will always be a troll along sooner or later. Your commentor knew exactly what he was saying, and what effect it would have. In fact, he was probably attracted by the title. "Troll: v. To post an inflammatory article in the hope of provoking a response. From the angling term. Troll n. One who Trolls. The best thing to do to a troll is to ignore it."

Thank you, I specifically carried those colours over in this image (& I think it's my best painted hair yet lol). I do realize that it is asking too much for only constructive commentary I think most rationale people do. I also realize that if one is too thin skinned than don't invite comments (or post your work). What I found interesting was that the comments had nothing to do with image itself and in fact is aimed at weight. I could do the same image with a big breasted thin waisted woman and the comments would then be about the colouring and the lighting, maybe even the hair. As artists I would hope that we can all find "art" in many different forms and shapes. There are some truly grotesque gothic/macabre images in the gallery, nothing wrong with that they are a style of art and appreciated as such. When an image is done of a gothic character that is anorexic thin (as sinsister did in an awesome piece recently that I personally found beautiful in a truly sinister and macabre manner) there are no comments about weight only about the images - but use a heavy model and it is suddenly about the weight and not the "mood", "style" or what have you. As I stated on the image if one rules out bigger models they are missing out on pieces by fabulous classical artists such as Rubens and others and closing themsleves off to truly beautiful work.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Gads, here I was expecting to see this grossly overweight beast, and instead I find a woman with a little meat on her bones. Yeesh! I think it looks gtreat. Not just the character, but the overall feel of the image. Nicely done. ~EA

Milady, allow me to repeat what I stated below your art. Never dwell on the inability of others to deal with their own inadequacies when those inadequacies render them unable to see beyond or hide their own impotence and inabilities. Write it off to jealousy and keep creating whatever you damn well please! You do excellent work! Take care, be well, keep flying. casamerica

Having gotten my share of content comments, I can understand how you feel. Comments really should be about the quality and technique of the art, not about the subject matter. Ihope that we use the gallery comments we make to try to help or encourage the artist. BTW, it is a beautiful pic. Tones really set off the model. I wish it were bigger though. My old eyes would love to see more of the detail.

I don't think it's appropriate to leave comments about the subject if you don't like the subject. I've seen pictures amazingly well done that I didn't like the subject of. To me that's not the point and I can comment even if I don't like the contents of the picture. I can appreciate lighting and reflections and how balanced a picture is, regardless of what the subject matter is. Btw, great render LSM. I do happen to like the subject. Now if you had put a big red circle on a white canvas, then I might have issues with it being art. ;)

Again... late on the draw... so to speak... I, too, thought it was going to be some obese monstrocity... only to find a "real" woman... As far as the comments go... me being the 18th commentor, you only had the one negative post. LSM, you have "proved" yourself to be a quality artist (at least in my book) and I would think that comments such as the one made for you image would be beneath you. Knowing that the poster made the comment either to intentionally "flame it" or has little or no artistic training to appreciate diversity. I loved it... the image and the content both! -Lee

I was once heavily criticized for promoting anorexia in an image I did (the only scaling to negative in the body was in the shoulders.. everything else was scaled LARGER). It goes both ways, unfortunately. I have my own vision of what I want. Just because I do an image of a goth girl who is about 10 or 15 lbs. underweight doesn't mean that I promote anorexia. And just because I do an image of a woman who is 20-30 lbs. overweight doesn't mean that I promote obesity. I make conscious artistic choices to use bodies that support the image I am making. If others disagree with the choice I have made, that is their purvue, but I will not change my style to suit others. Ignore it LadySilverMage. Not everything we do is to everyone else's taste, and that's ok. =)

Some of the worlds greatest artists portrayed large nude women :) Based on the positive feedback you've gotten, I would not worry about one malcontent. You image is well done and very subtle. Keep doing what you love. There were a lot of people who though Picasso would never amount to anything :) So there you have it! :)

I am not the slightest bit worried about the negative comment - I suppose that it saddens me a bit that in a community of "aritists" such biasness would exist for any image. Be that the stick thin goth figures or the rubenesque women. There is artistic merit all around us and for an artist (I say artist because why join an artist's community if you do not perceive yourself as an artist on some level) to close their eyes and make those types of comments seem blind to me. I appreciate constructive criticism when I receive it - makes me work harder, as do positive comments that point out what a person enjoys about the image. Just saying WOW doesn't always tell me what I did right lol

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

a Quick note - above, when I said that I contacted Clint I wanted to state that I ultimately decided I did not want the comment removed. I think that we open ourselves up when we post art and that this was a chance to make a good point and open commentary on "what constitutes art?" and biasness even within the art community.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

The best part of this, to me, is that I probably would have missed the graphic had you not posted the question on the forum. That would have been my loss. Thanks!

"Comments really should be about the quality and technique of the art, not about the subject matter." Why? This comment is as narrow-minded as the one that was made on the pic. Interesting subject matter can overcome a lot of technical flaws and what's the point of work that covers the same old ground no matter how technically perfect it is?

If I could only look as well proportioned as Maxine, I'd be a very happy fat lady. It's a beautiful morph and a gorgeous render as I stated. Some people-- not just randy teenagers, either-- seem to want to be entertained in the galleries. There is something about being face to face with a lot of flesh that scares even sophisticated critics. There was a realist painter in the last decade who got incredible flak over his choice of models. One was seriously more clinically obese than Maxine. Critics found it unartistic-- it got in the way of the art. These were serious critics. I have to assume that there is not just a licence to dislike fat in the society but an active fear of it. You see similar comments on renders of the Golden Girls and other older women who are not "funny." Again it feels like fear. As if we were in ghetto of perfectly shaped women and men who could not grow old-- well, some of the men could-- and could not die, except in acceptably fantastic combat or gothic situations. And then someone pulls back the curtain and shows something closer to real. And it's scary. It's not titillating, it's not entertaining, and people lash out. If this picture bothered your critic, he'd probably never recover from Rembrandt's portraits of his wife. Emily

What significance does a person's prejudice against women who are overweight make to evaluating a piece of art that happens to have an overweight person in it? It shows the limits of that person's ability to judge fairly artwork that doesn't happen to meet their taste, but what does it prove? Let's say I like dogs and hate cats. Should I then say that a piece of art that happens to have cats in it is awful based solely on the fact that there are no dogs in it? That's just as silly. Either I over come my prejudice about cats, and evaluate the art on the basis of its craft and technique, or I admit I'm too bone headed to be able to see past the fur and am not equipped to judge without taking in consideration the subject. I had this happen to me recently. I happened to make a graphic with a robot in it and one of my friends said he couldn't give me feedback because he doesn't like robots. I pointed out that what I was asking for feedback on was the light and reflections...to me, the subject could have just as easily been a fishbowl for all I cared. It happened to be a robot but it wasn't essential as far as the technique I was experimenting with. But this person couldn't see past his prejudice about robots. Makes him pretty sad as an art critic, doesn't it? But that's no more idiotic than saying art with an overweight woman can't be good art just because it features and overweight woman. And perhaps it is about being threatened, or because people have to live in a fantasy world where everyone is beatiful and perfect and boring. I like the Golden Girls and Half Century Club and the overweight ladies and Gertrude and Bertha and Frank because they give variety to the graphics and let us explore something beyond the Barbie and Ken doll looks. More power to the diversity of life. I think it's a lovely thing.

I wrote that before I read the comment. [the perversity that views] "women in this condition as anything other than things to be hidden" I shudder as I even contemplate the fact that I am a "thing" fit only in my "condition" to be hidden.

I wonder if that's not the point...in so many graphics, women are treated as "things"...objects and not really as human.

It's mammalian nature. Men are territorial, and women are territory. I know that's not the "popular" view or anything that any one wants to hear in this enlightened age of total denial. But the fact is that over 2 million years of evolution has made that the law of jungle. Most of our societal ills come from us fighting our nature instead of channeling it. The objectified art is just a reflection of what we want, and we want it because there is no healthy normal direction for us to channel our desires. Some how we got locked into artificial behavior like monogamy. Add in the ever changing aesthetic of society and our new age of technological separation ... you're just asking for problems. You can't tame an animal that you're pretending doesn't exist.

Shrug it off. The world is full of idiots. Oh, and some who are not. Same rules apply here and in any other cummunity, virtual or real. :] Fish

I looked! Not a thing wrong with the image! Great job!

"Some how we got locked into artificial behavior like monogamy." whooo, my hubby would have a field day with this. LOL. Just had to say that.

'cummunity'? Oh lordy, talk about speling mizteak, lol.... (I mean my own stoopid spelling in #38) :] Fish

Wow, look at all this advertising! Opinions are alas like a**holes, everyone has one and they all stink but your own. The comment, as unappropriate as it was, was quite mild from what I have seen. If you have never been trolled before, then welcome to the club. As FishNose has stated, "Shrug it off", it can get much worst.

If you do it for the critics, you are doing it for the wrong reasons!

Mark

I like the piece a lot...overall... Perhaps the person just can't handle a real woman :) I find women with more than bones very sexy, and this subject looks pretty darn sexy to me. I also believe those that can't look at a piece for its artistic qualities and only see something as being negative or positive as relating to their beliefs need to expand their horizons a bit...although, now that I've said that, the subject matter of an image is vitally important to the overall impact to the viewer...so if one sees a work of art whose subject matter is repulsive to him, the stated comments may be forthcoming...and vice versa....

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

The fact is art is a statement. If you are any kind of artist, you put yourself into what you create and reflect yourself. It's probably harder to hide in a creative endeavor. You can dress a caveman up in a suit and he could probably function without notice in a modern society, but as soon as that same caveman tried to create a piece of art, his prehistoric notions would reveal themselves....such as the fact that he thinks of women as chattel instead of understanding the radical notion that women are human, and that women come in all kinds of shapes and forms and levels of intellects, just like men, and that they are not objects but creative, intellectual, sensual, living, breathing human beings...just like the guys. And, you know, people are more interesting in their variety and differences than a single stereotype repeated over and over again...both as artists and as subjects of art. I think the revelation of self artistically is rather an exciting risk...and I don't mean the bare body parts kind of excitement but rather the showing that we are more than a lump of talking cells. Men and women both have a lot to say to each other if we bothered to move past the cliches. And, fortunately, some people are willing to do that.

Well... What a to do?!?!? It's a lovely render, and ahem scuse me, but she's not THAT rubenesque! Looks like a size 16 to me! As for the negative post... I agree. That is the wrong place for that sort of comment. It's not constructuve criticism/apraisal of the artistic teqhnique used so shouldn't have been posted. Hmmm... something doing on with the thigh and hip... almost like she has a body-stocking on there. Surely she's not trying to hide some of those delicious folds!? Howard:)

I think this woman is beautiful. Her face is lovely, her skin smooth and perfect. Even for her weight, she is not dimpled nor covered with stretch marks (as I can personally attest to). A woman should never be "hidden from view". I love the gentle touches of color in the black & white, it gives her a mysterious air. If someone wants toned, teen-age appearing naked women, a subscription to Playboy is not that expensive.

Playboy needs to be renamed to Photoshop Playtime for Men or some such

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

fls13, perhaps I did not word that well enough to get my point across. My point is (and the reason I even opened this thread - the subjectiveness of art) as I stated above - if I had rendered the same image with a large breasted thin waisted women (my usual) the commentor would have probably commented on the image as a whole. There is a difference between "critiquing" an image and saying that heavier women should be hidden as if they are an embarassment. It's obvious the commentor intended to flame. If I find pictures of snakes distatsteful and cobra's especially I would not look at an image titled "Cobra Snake" and decide to lower the artists rating on the image solely due to the fact that they used a cobra snake. Again I don't care personally about the rating - it is just emphasis to my point. This is the second image I have posted of Maxine nude, I frankly enjoyed working with her and doing something a bit "different" than the norm here. This won't make me stop (obviously, that would be silly) in fact it will probably encourage me to do more of them. I never do anything for the "critics" except in this case; I began doing images of Maxine because of the teasing (good natured) from some of my friends that my big breasted thin waisted pinups would fall over lol. So I did Maxine as a pin-up just to show diversity and because I thought it was a great idea to show a "realistic" female form. There is a problem with the thigh at the knee area - I know and I tried to fix it but I distorted it all nasty looking. btw that is the exact thing I did expect people to comment on (the thigh) or the lighting on her torso.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

LadySilverMage, your image truely is art. Don't let one ignorant viewer get ya down. Some people are just to immature to know when to hold their tounge and when to speak (oops, talking about myself agin ;) I'd like to say something more comforting but 4 hours in the dentist chair today is preventing me... Your image is truely Fine Art, don't change!

Don't let it bother you. Some of the greatest art in history was full proportioned women. I've never heard anyone of substance say negative things about da Vinci's Mona Lisa. You have some fantastic lighting there and I especially like the lighting on the hand.

oh, just forget about darkstation....obiviously, he has not met a sexy black woman, who is proud of who she is...how, she cooks...and, her power over men. if that person wants anorexic...overacheiver type...so beit. may he have tons of sexy fun with her. i liked your character. i'm working on a couple of my own..."natural figure"...and, ethnic. oh, yeah..and, just a little bit pregnant, which is very sexy. don't worry 'bout the trolls...i have been many times trolled by liftan, and, his clones...brings down the ratings, sometimes...but, heyas...controversy stirs the blood, yes?

I would ignore the comments made altogether. Some folks don't understand the addage "It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" ;o). In the larger scheme of things, it doesn't really matter one whit what ANYONE thinks as long as it pleases YOU and you enjoyed making it. I think what constitues art is different for everyone, but I think that art is really for the artist more than it is for the people that view it. After all, something inspired you to do it, not for anyone else but yourself. The fact that it may be viewed by others is really secondary. BTW, I liked your image. I don't find too much ugly about the human form, no matter what form it takes ;o). Laurie

I love Rubenesque women. Keep up the good work - we need more women with hips in the galleries. :)

Attached Link: http://www.earthcurves.com/

Rubenesque women have been the norm in art until recently in the 20th century. I like your image. One of my favorite art sites is the art of Will Kramer. He uses poser and tweaks poser characters til they look more 'real' (my words not his). I've included a link to his site, if you haven't seen his work I highly recommend it. There is also a interview with him by him (?) where he discusses his art and size of his women in his picture. Love images of plus size women, seems to be a rarity in poserland.

Silver - your image is every bit as beautiful as a Rubens. BUT, I don't think it merits the title "Rubenesque" - your woman is fairly skinny when compared to actual Rubens women (search for examples on the net). Since Rubens woman type was the "Playmate" of their day, we can all see that ideals change so fast that any comment about what is and isn't beautiful is bound to sound a little silly ;o) Your image DOES have good lighting, comp, color harmony, and a beautiful pose, so I'd call it art - good art!

As another Poser person who is fond of using models who are larger than the standard Vicki (not necessarily larger than the standard woman, though!), I've had a couple of comments left which refer to the size of my subject, too! I love your image, LSM - and I think that, from an artistic point of view, fleshier models have more interesting folds and shapes than yer basic taut Vicki. I'm just off to add you to my favourite artists, LSM - I would have missed this latest work if you'd not highlighted it here - and I was very impressed with your previous rubenesque lady, too! (I think I left a comment to that effect at the time). Would also love to hear from others who use non-standard body shapes for Vicki - I find them inspiring!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=290841

As I wrote in the gallery, it's a great image. And it IS strange how "real" people can be so apparently scary. Like old people. They're scary too, so let's lock them up in "homes" and keep them out of view..... erhm... It seems some people just can't cope with the fact that they simply do not remain teenagers for all their life. And those who try usually end up pretty pathetic in my book. Look at Cher. It can be debated if she's beautiful or not, but does she look "real"? I once made a pic with not only nude overweight people in it. It was even 2 overweight MATURE people! I was pleased back then to see that it got only positive comments. But perhaps it was due to the fact that not so many people SAW it? *G* Anyway, should you like to see it (again?) it's at the link above :o) If we want our Poser world to reflect reality, then it's necessary to get beyond the skinny Barbie look imho :o)

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You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

Argh.. forgot. Please note that the picture at my link contains nudity!

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You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

I am familiar with Will Kramer's work and I love the shape of his women - very natural. I used "rubenesque" so viewers would know it was a larger woman. She actually is bigger than the lighting makes her look though, I wanted to highlight her curves while keeping her a bit mysterious. Then I added post lighting when I was done and it was even darker so you don't see the full weight in her arms and such. But yes, compared to a real Ruben she's "petite" lol Perhaps heavier women/models are acceptable in the work of the classics but considered out of place in the modern world?

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

In Rubens' day, the rich set the standards. The poor did what the rich did not want to do : worked hard, mostly outdoors, and far from always had enough to eat. So muscled, tanned and emaciated was plebeian. Soft, white and plump was proof positive that you were well off. Nowadays, the middle class sets the standard. Difference is that now WE do what we don't like : work inside, get more food than exercise, and only see the sun when we leave the office. So muscled, tanned and fashionably emaciated is proof positive that you are well off. Funny, ain't it ;o)

I love your image, it is really well done, especially with the shading but bold lips and eye coloring. I do want to say though that I don't much feel like being hidden away :) naah. In regards to the comment, I don't think it was necessary it was his opinion yes-no argument there-but his personal commentary didn't have anything to do with the image. Not, a..'hey you could have done X better ,or I like the use of Y, or even a simple not my style,don't like it'....but the shrug it off, sounds like a good idea. Definitely a fan of larger ladies imagery, any type really, man woman, skinny fat. :)

The world would be a pretty boring place if were were all the same size. It would be just as boring if the entire world looked just like Houston (don't mean to offend any Texans, but you get my drift- besides, it would really suck if it looked like Salt Lake City :)). It's like saying a landscape image sucks because it's an image of a beach and you really love mountains.

LSM, I wouldn't let any one person get you down, and it doesn't appear he has :) Sometimes I think the gallery is populated by fourteen yr-olds still proud of sprouting their first wood. Don't worry about it.

That said, I think there are larger issues here... like why the swimsuit edition of a frikkin' SPORTS magazine is their largest selling issue of the year. Why it was first Maxim, then Stuff, now countless clones of what seems to be the same magazine. But it's not all their fault. Cosmo and Glamour and others have been having rail-thin women on the cover for years and years (and if they aren't thin enough, they photoshop 'em). I wouldn't have a problem at all with the magazines as long as there was some kind of "equal time" for different figure types. Something that people could look at and say "hey, that looks like me." I'm not about to say there should be a law about it... but it does say something when the buying power determines what magazines stay and go... what movies are made and those that get tossed. My wife and I have talked about this too many times (we agree, btw). Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's only going to get worse. Media does effect perception, in my opinion. What we see, over time, does effect how we think. A lot of Maxim/Stuff/etc readers are going to grow up with the mistaken idea that they're going to get it on with someone named Pam 24/7, when it's more likely their destiny lies in a trailer park with an empty case of Bud laying on the floor while they help Springer keep his ratings up.

So why do the rags seem to be pressing this image of beauty out there? Because people are buying it. I guarantee you, if everyone abstained from buying Cosmo, or Maxim for a couple months, they'd be gone, governed by the power of the dollar.

ok, sorry for the diatribe, but I couldn't help it. However, I do know that SI won't get a dime from me until they get a woman with some serious hips on the cover of that swimsuit issue :)

LSM, keep making that stuff you make. I just wish more people would actually read the words above the comments box: "your helpful comments for improving this image".

Will

Just want to say that your image inspires me to one day do an image of a rubenesque woman also. I got the V3 Expansion Pack 1 not for the zombies but in fact for the plus size morph which is an improved version of the heavy morph in the V3 body morph. Wondering if you've seen that.

My problem (yes, I know I have many) is not getting the larger sizes of the figures, but to find clothes that fit them properly. The Tailor has defeated me, Steve Shanks has a few dresses, but there is precious little else I've seen available. Since I don't do nudes and modeling is beyond my mediocre skills, it makes it more difficult. If anyone has discovered a source of large sized clothing for Poser figures, male or female, or has any hints on how to enlarge existing clothing without it looking strange, I sure would appreciate it. But it has to be pretty basic...once you get into rewriting code and all that jazz, I'm lost. I don't have anything against the nudes in themselves, but I prefer to do more realistic graphics and that requires clothing beyond the skins.

Realistic is not the right term...every day scenes/slice of life is what I do. LadySilverMage's figure is obviously very realistic....and I think it is beautiful. But it's not what I want to do.

dailyn, you mention getting the clothes to fit right. That's the exact reason I gave up on it and started painting them years ago. It's frustrating, although I must admit, the new morphing clothes for v3 work well most of the time.

Funny how one thing leads to another, doesn't it? I had no idea when I started with Poser how expanded my horizons were going to get out of necessity. ;)

"...I've been an artist for a long time now, and as I've gotten older and much more mature, I realize I haven't a clue what art is - but I sure do know what I like!" "Criticism only matters to me when I can't grab a good creative idea from it." "The purpose of Art is to provoke a response."

Rubens, Picasso, Mondrian, Kandinsky, Chagall, Brancusi, Feiniger, Dali, Giotto, Da Vinci, Donatello, Micelangelo, Poussin, Van Gogh, Rapha, Pollock, Ingres, Gainsborough, Goya, Velasquez... They never were serious artist I suppose, for they never published in Penthouse comic (lol). So many shapes, so many different feelings, so many messages. Nevertheless I suppose the commentator never interested himself in any artistic research... :)

I agree with Astride ;) Lets get more "sizeable" women on the field :) (just check out Ernyoka's Real world ppl ;) Genious. And your image is really very good!

I could just imagine some bigot guy in a museum, looking at a Picasso and going: "DAMN! She's a Fat ugly B***H!" How many people would agree with that guy? Not me I tell ya!

LOL, but wouldn't you be surprised that he was in the museum at all??

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

I guess I would be LOL! I'd be less surprised if I found the Queen of England sitting behind the counter in a local 7-11!

He certainly wouldn't be in a cinema for Fellini's films..