Effective April 7th, 2003: All uploads will be held for review to ensure accordance with the guidelines listed in the Disclaimer. Once the item is approved it will be made available to all Renderosity members for download. If your item does not show up immediately, that is why! It will show up in freestuff after it has been approved. Thank you for your assistance in making this a great site to be, Lyrra (Moderator)

Quick question Lyrra.
For those of us who have freestuff hosted by friends, and have created site links will this effect approval??

Meaning if I upload an item and have the link take downloaders to the hosting site rather than the file itself, will I be approved??

I've already mentioned this in an IM, but- please can there be some sort of indication that an upload was successful right away, even if the freestuff item isn't made available for some time? My connection from home is bad, so I never know if an upload worked unless I get some sort of confirmation message. Half the time they've timed out and I have to repeat the post, but as things are with Freestuff at the moment I wouldn't know that.

Good idea to vet the freebies before release, btw. Hopefully it will eliminate- or at least greatly reduce- the problems the freestuff section has experienced.

As a little sort-of amendment to my last post, I notice that there is an email message sent once an item has uploaded successfully and is pending approval. My email's not always terribly instantaneous either. I'm just impatient and want everything NOW. ;)

Thank you.....

As long as the site hosting your stuff falls within our TOS for acceptable links, then there will be no problem. So, no links to adult only sites, pay membership only sites, or sites condoning illegal software distribution. We are working on the code right now ... the programmer is tweaking it. Please let us know if there are any issues on your side. Lyrra the Busy

OMG... Who - and how many - people are you going to assign to this task? Considering how long it takes for items in the MARKETPLACE to show up (ok they're tested and all) I foresee a considerable amount of time before any freebies will show up. Not that I don't understand the background for this action, but.. Who are going to test and what criterias are they using? How thorough CAN they check for possible copyright infringements? I mean.. noone can know of ALL the 3D items that are available on the Internet. Sorry if I sound negative, it just seems like a very big amount of work for whoever is going to test these things. Ah well, let's see how bad it gets :o) Hopefully it works ok.

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

Yeah! Thank you for doing this. I think it will help a huge amount and shows commiment to community working together. The most important key is education I think. I'm looking into making a "Friendly Freebies" info page somewhere. LaurieS helped me put this together for texture artists who seem to be hit equally hard by infringements. They can drop this on their maps. Anton PS: If you have any questions about Vicki, Mike or Stephanie stuff let me know.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Well I suppose if this system becomes to big a pain we can always start posting our free stuff at the 3dcommune or esle where. C'est la Vie.

____________________________________________________

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination".

Albert Einstein

Well, the approval process for free stuff isn't anywhere as strict as MP testing. The main thrust of it will be to make sure that the things Lyrra mentioned above are complied with. We're hoping to be able to approve items within days, not weeks. Copyright is always a toughie. Of course you're right that nobody can possibly know all items sources, but hopefully this step will allow us to spot the more obvious breaches. We'll still have to rely on you good folks to point out ones that we will inevitably miss. Kev.

ernyoka1 , Just so you know, over the past few months we have already gone through most of the Freestuff section. With most new things being in the Marketplace and not Freestuff, checking isn't really that much work now since mostly just the new stuff needs to be checked. Cybermonk, how about you try supporting them.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Well, I thought paying for web space and creating stuff and giving it away was supporting the community.

____________________________________________________

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination".

Albert Einstein

Alas- as much as I consider caleb a dear and great friend, and respect the integrity of the other mods here. I am afraid that this is the end of the free stuff section on Renderosity. Most ppl who post a link here allready have a hard enought time finding hosting space. We allready host our own stuff on out own sites. So, adding another layer and a time limit is just going to make the process even more of a hassle then it all ready is. Stoping a lot of damn fine modelers and texture makers from adding there stuff to your list. Further more, all that you contributing to free stuff is a list. Your not hosting thumbnails, Your not hosting the free item taking away the tremendous burdon of bandwidth. All your providing is a list. Many, many such list exist elsewhere. Again, I say, this many be the fatal wound that kills renderosity's dominance in the internets 3d community. I can see the other sites sitting back in glee waiting for the major increase in traffic thats coming there way. This has nothing to do with warez, but with a desire to micro manage everything- and to appease a few very loud bitchers... LOL- sounds like goverment Geo

This is about the people who are abusing the system. I am sure the process won't delay your freebies so long that you will have to pull them and post them at 3DCommune or elsewhere. But I think a bit of patience in the beginning would help alot. I don't see how having to wait a bit before upload prevents anyone from enjoying providing freebies to their friends and such. Geo, we were asking to remove as many as three freebies a week. you are way off.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Geo is not off. Freestuff is as much art as any other post on this site, its mostly and oftenly privately hosted. These people can just as well leave and go to less hassle places instead of staying, waiting and being brought down on becuase of biasedness.

Oh please. That is a cheap shot. Fyi: been here 7 years. With Daz 5 months. I paid my dues already. lol Watching way too much X-Files.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Whoa folks! Not to step into the middle of the fray that seems to be starting, but I applaud Renderosity's position on this. Recently a file was put into freestuff that was in clear violation of copyright infringement. It however was due to lack of knowledge of distribution of that type of file. By having just one additional step involved in the process it protects RO from redistribution of copyrighted material. They are just covering their butts. For the past few hours I've been dealing with a copyright infringement issue myself with some of my renders being used in web sets by a designer to whom I've told no to repeatedly. I understand that many others give their approval for usage of their work, but when one doesn't, and others either blatantly or in ignorance do so, it's enough to make the blood boil. On this designer's site I saw renders from LisaB, LaurieS, Sinamin, Vali, and more along with mine. What makes it worse, is these images are made into web sets and then from what I can tell being redistributed by the web set designer, claiming them as her own. Yes, she has made the web set, but she didn't create the image. Ack, enough....but although my position may make me unpopular (and I love the free stuff as much as anybody), I truly understand the reasoning behind this measure. Blues

hi BlueP-- if 'osity is distributing stuff- how come I'm paying the bandwidth bills.

The new crap for freestuff does suck. I follow all the guidelines, host my own files on my own server, etc so why should it matter how long its in the freestuff? Really, each entry takes up so little space in the database. What little bandwidth used by my products over the server, have been more than paid for when I had a store here. Yes, some policing is needed in freestuff, but mostly for getting rid of dead links. Honestly I haven't seen any products that violated anything in the TOS, so why review everything? That'd only burden the already over worked r'osity people. Just keep an eye out, and when something is there that shouldnt be, you simply remove it.

RE distributing stuff Geo. If it went into court regarding a copyright infringement they would be cupable as well as the person on whose site the product is stored. For instance...KAZAA. Kazaa doesn't store the files themselves, they are on the various individuals websites, but if one of the major companies wanted to make a stink, then Kazaa would be held as much responsible for the offending files as would the person who had the files on the computer that were being downloaded. Like I said I love the freebies! The artists that do upload their free files to RO do so out of graciousness and sometimes as promotional enhancements. From what I read the procedure is going to only cause a short delay.

The problem has been that even after two days, a freebie can have over 1000 downloads. V2 and all her morphs has been in freestuff several times already. I personally have had 5 outfits, 3 hairstyles, 4 textures packs, and 3 prop warez'd in freestuff. Mostly, items were removed without anyone ever knowing which is why you may think it is not a common occurance. But it is. I know of at least 25 instances since January where freestuff items needed to be removed. More that I was not apart of. I think Renderosity is doing the resposible thing and should be supported for it. I personally would be more annoyed at those who insist on doing it over and over again. It is just a review. I don't think a ssmall delay is posting worth getting frothy over. :)

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I understand the need to thwart the theft of the property of the creators, but this is a "link approval" system. Nothing is actually getting uploaded... Nothing against Celeb or the Mods, but this seems a bit off. What about people who post links to elsewhere here in the threads because of the nailing of bandwidth by even posting in freestuff (or even for a presentation value)? I mean just linking a thumbnail eats bandwidth when several thousand people view the freestuff. Gratefully, Crescent has hosting some of my freestuff, but I tend to post freebie links in here for people who are more discerning about their downloads. There are several others with weekly freebies that do the same.

.

See- ppl can have a disagreement and still be civil to each other- this must be a first here :) I think kazzaa HAS been taken to court several times- each time they have been found not liable for what other ppl do with there software (I watch tech tv, lol)any more then say photoshop is liable for someone making kiddy porn, or 'osity for makeing a public access free listing. I'm not saying some don't make mistakes either by accident or purposfully and post something in free stuff that shouldn't be. But to declair martial law because a burgler is in town isn't the right thing to do to everybody else either. But as the Daz representative said- only 3 violations a week out of the hundreds is nothing- a pittance. The posters of free stuff, like you said are as often as not, total amitures, shit happens. Just pull them when ya see something is wrong- hell- the mod could do it that way. Now buying a gun and posting to free stuff are in the same catagory. Prove your innocence first- then aquire. so I can't spell- shoot me-LOL- after you pass the 3 day waiting list :)

I'm not against the monitoring proceedure myself...the only concerns I ever had were 1)what happens about the existing freestuff? (Lyrra already kindly answered that, thanks Lyrra) 2) Who's monitoring the freestuff? and 3)are they going to monitor it fairly?

I don't think it takes an einstein to work out the power and responsibility a mod or admin has on ANY web-site, let alone this one, and how messy things can get if said mods or admin are being biased or un-fair in any way or form.

I understand that Caleb has the momentous task of monitoring the freestuff and as I have chatted to and shared thoughts on quite a few things with Caleb, I reckon he's one of the best people for the job - he's a very nice, kind, generous and fair person who I look up to and value quite a lot.

I wish Caleb and the Renderosity team the best of luck with this and hope it goes well.

Sadly, I am also aware of some people offering freestuff that isn't theirs and hopefully this new measure will screen such individuals out faster and easier.

I have no problem with any time delays for I'm a patient person....like I said earlier...my only gripe would only be about fairness and nothing else, after all this IS supposed to be a community where people should help each other (in my belief anyways).

Thanks for listening :-)

BigRedKane

PS : this post represents MY view and slant on things, no one else's. ;-)

Geo, reviewing links is not martial law. That molehill is almost a mountain now. :) And call me Anton instead of "the Daz Representative". lol And just because Kazza hasn't been found liable doesn't change what they are resposible for doing..irresponsibly allowing people access to illegal files they would not nowmally have access to without them. IMO.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I'm kinda in the same boat with BRK. Personally, the only thing I have problems with would be a time removal system like the marketplace now has with the warehouse. I think that setup really blows. The monitoring, go ahead. I was just playing devil's advocate before.

Phoenix, systems like Kazaa if stopped won't stop piracy. I knew where to get pirated software back in the '80s, and if I wanted to, it would be no problem to get something. It merely aids things by allowing the morons to take part in piracy. Also, of the people I know that do pirate software, they don't use kazaa, but rather some of the old methods.

Whats all the fuss about here? Someone monitoring freestuff can only improve the service. So it takes a couple of days for an item to be available. Who's gonna know apart from the contributor? And if it filters out genuine errors like the one with the textures a couple of days ago, and traps TOS and copyright violations as well as (hopefully) also ensuring that the links work that can only be an improvement. Fums up for this.

Expert in computer code including, but not limited to, BTW; IIRC; IMHO; LMAO; BRB; OIC; ROFL; TTYL. Black belt in Google-fu.

 

I just wonder who's gonna be capable of checking everything; just for Vicky textures alone, how many sources would you have to compare the work to before you could say one way or the other? Let's face it: if DAZ hadn't caught this one, I doubt anyone else would have -- what changes I saw were imbedded pretty deep, and it took the eye of the original artist to find his work buried underneath. Is one mod gonna be able to say thoroughly that any uploaded texture is 100% original? I'm not saying we don't need a monitoring system. But it seems like a huge task.

No offense intended, but I think some people are interpreting this change and the reasons behind it the wrong way.

I believe this isn't about 'punishing' people, its about informing them. From the copyright issues that I've read about posted here in the forums, it seemed like many of them were due to ignorance... not outright law breaking.

There are quite a few very generous people who offer hosting for freestuff items, such as Poserosity and Big-I. I'm hoping to offer hosting services myself, once I have my server set up completely. With all of the places out there, I think its extremely helpful to have a database that directs people to the freebies they're interested in, whether or not they're hosted directly. I don't see this new process ruining the R'osity Freestuff section in the least, because it is not causing any damage to members (just a minor inconvenience perhaps), and its helping to prevent problems that can cost people thousands of dollars in lost sales.

I'm not a merchant yet myself, but I know I would be very upset if I found that my products were being freely distributed when I had put a lot of time and effort into making them. Consider putting yourself in the merchants' position before pointing fingers and placing the blame.

-Molly

There's been some discussion about liability and "covering themselves" from Renderosity's standpoint. Just a question... What happens when the screener doesn't catch a copyright violation. It's clear that now (as in the case of Kaazaa (sp?) noted above, without review, the site is not responsible for what people post. If 'rosity starts reviewing, do they then become responsible for always being correct? I don't know the law, just a thought... Additional comment, this does seem to create less incentive for the very casual freestuff poster to share stuff (another step that has to be done). Perhaps some more efforts featuring and recognizing the good freestuff would help create incentive... the contest this month seems to be a good example of that!

Good job, Lyrra, its about time. I hope this works out.

As a freestuff downloader I'm THRILLED about this new policy. Thank you SOOOOO much for it. In the past 3 months I've had to sift through my CDs, mark files in jewelcases as bad don't use, etc due to copyright violations etc. I truely thank you for helping me filter. Does the Snoopy Dance

HI guys- Don't get me wrong- please- this is not my cause celeb. I just don't see any real good coming from all this for the reasons I said. Allready a dear friend who made something has to wait- so he said the heck with it, he's just going to make a free section on his site (all his idea). Wait days or take 10 minutes and add a link on his own pages. He's as honest as the day is long :) I won't go as far as saying that this goes over the line, just that it is being step on (the line) that is. Anton- nice to meet ya :) going to bed now :) night Geo The road to hell is paved with good intentions. or It's easier to read every 3rd word. lol

Geo, It's just a link review.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

'And call me Anton instead of "the Daz Representative". lol' Then please create a 2nd User login that is Anton and seperate since we do not know who you speak for.

Hmmm kinda direct. Post isn't about me but since you mentioned it. I can see where that is tricky. I really don't want another username since people would know that is me too. Not sure how that would be less confusing. I used to have another but had it deleted years ago during a mass walk out after the site changed hands. My Daz posts are signed that way under my name and are limited to product announcements and some mild tech support. Daz doesn't really do forums posts at all. At least not right now. Only reason I post here is because I always have. And despite taking the occasional insult I enjoy it. :) I believe it is important for people to be informed which I think get's blurry sometimes. Because I have know alot about Poser and how Daz product were made it is usually very easy for me to quickly answer alot of questions noone else can. I tend to answer alot of the posts posted for Daz because I usually have an answer and they likely won't see it..at least not right away. Daz generally makes announcement in it's newletter. It is a difficult line between position and personality but I really have no fun only just ever answering questions. I like to discuss issues like everyone else. But it has been tricky. A couple times, while waiting for official info, I have been slammed for dancing arounf or ignoring questions. Idon't make up policy, but I usually just repeat what hgas already been enstablished. Generally warez in the community is the only personal topic I speak on. I have been so majorly ripped off by freestuff I could never possibly explain to you how bad it has been. At one point I used to add up the downloads. When I stopped there had been over 35,000 downloads of various things I made people gave away in part here in Freestuff. That was over a year ago. The recent Daz stuff I found since Jan added up to something like 147,000 downloads. I stopped counting after that. Aside from that I just answer questions. I don't like typing so I am usually very to the point. I would say assume all of my posts are personal. Though that doesn't mean I am wrong or don't know what I am talking about. It would be a shame not to be able to shareinfo on thingsthat people wouldn't normally ever know, but it is sort of all or nothing. Like I said I don't make up new policy but simplpe try to re-explain things already established if I know the answer. It can be frustrating sometimes but you get over that after awhile. lol. I have no life other than Poser now. No idea what I would talk about otherwise. They move all my renders to ProductShowcase so I can't do those here. Makes it tough to be a member cause you can't post wip, renders or things other people post. I could stop posting but that would bite for alot of people including myself. All the forums are the same anyway. :) Same people, different usernames. Regards, Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Although I trust that this new policy is well intended and simply wishes to protect many of the generous donors who post here, I must stand with those like Georgess to register my concerns for the unintended consequences of this new policy. For by scrutinizing all of the new posting in order to prevent TOS violations, the mods are treating all posters (and not just the ones committing illegal actions) as if they were criminals. While I have no problem with a delay in new postings, I have become concerned with the new slate of "protective" measures which have been introduced in many new venues (and not just R'osity.) While individually they may appear unimportant or even benign, ultimately, their collective effect will be to erode the freedoms of all members (and not merely those who are in error.) Moreover, this particular addition, I think, is unnecessary as the previous of removing offending posts worked sufficiently to resist TOS violations without putting the whole community under surveillance. If individuals see a TOS violation, they should report it. Simple. Why is it ok to curb the privileges of all to catch a very few? This policy , I feel, is inefficient at best and dangerous to the freedom and creativity of the whole community at worst. For while I am not a great modeler, I do so a little. As such, I would love to post freebie to repay what has been generously accorded to me. However, as the difficulties of doing so mount, I would be very much less likely to contribute. Stimulating this reluctance, I'm sure, is not the intention of this policy. But, unfortunately, as R'osity imposes unnecessary restrictions on the many in order to protect the few (even if such protections seem warranted,) many initially hesitant contributors like myself may refuse to engage in the hassle. So I request in a spirit of kindness and group cohesion that R'osity rethink this unfortunate policy. It will help few, but harm many. Thanks for listening. --lb

It is just a link review. Their not ressurecting Stalin. :)

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Perhaps, but even a link review is wrong if its goal can be accomplished without subjecting everyone to an unnecessary search. After all, its just a freebie posting, not anti-terrorism security. :)

Unnecessary? Well that is subjective I guess. I can understand this issue doesn't affect alot of people so they don't care. But to me protecting people(even if not alot of people) is more important than an instant upload, which is what this is really about. "oh yeah sorry you are getting screwed so bad but get out of my way so I can see my freebie go up instantly!". Seems kinda cold to me but oh well.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

a LOT of the freebies I've made are stuff I've made by request. Now it's like I don't feel like doing that anymore. No big idea of hurrying to make something for someone who needs a this-and-that for a picture if you're gonna wait 3 days to pass it on. And fyi, I DO model fast when I model. I have zero patience L so I do things fast and most of the time right in the first attempt G As for myself, I have my webpage where I can post my things, as I do right now, but will this new link review also mean that you can't tell people that you've uploaded something new? Will that post be reviewed and delayed? I am not trying to be awkward, it just seem to me like there is a lot of unanswered questions and grey zone areas in this idea. The idea in itself isn't so bad, I can understand why it is - unfortunately - needed, but I am not sure that whoever came up with the idea has thought it all out in details. But well, let's see how much of a hassle this will be. Hopefully Caleb haven't planned any (easter)vacation or have this annoying thing called "a life" ;o)

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

Ya know, I think this would be a lot different if freebies were actually being uploaded. Sure, then I'd say Rosity is libel for making sure that copyrights are protected. But nothing is uploaded... It's an offsite link on both the thumbnail and the hosted file. It is link database. If Rosity feels that all the freestuff content should be checked, then that's fine. Have a person or persons run around checking the links. Look, most of us here don't care for the warez scene (I hope) and the members here (and Mods, of course) have been good about keeping everything legit. The community as a whole should keep a watchful eye. If something is spotted as potentially theft, report it. I think it really sucks that people have gotten ripped off, especially Anton - who consistently provides good quality content. I just think this may be a tad extreme - as presented in this manner. Oh, and I'm certainly on your side. I'm a merchant here and a few other places and I provide freebie content on my website. I don't want to get ripped off either.

.

If you have to walk through a metal detector at an airport to get on a plane, why is everybody freaking out about a detector in freebies. I just do not understand. I'm sorry, I've read and re read some posts. If you host, there will be a short delay, then it's business as usual. What is the problem? Downloaders wont be able to see a difference really. I'm glad Renderosity is taking a proactive stance, there are not a lot of sites that do not police thier freebies. With Virii, Pop-ups, copyright infringements, Renderosity is taking a stand and helping the community as a whole by making freestuff links from Renderosity a more pleasent experience for users as well as giving copyright holders a fighting chance.

I can't see it being much hassle. Most well established people know the score & stick to the rules, it's the relative newcomers & firsttime posters that need to be better informed. I for one think it's a good idea & if it helps to raise the standard of freestuff being posted we should all back it.

The opinion above is my own & is in no way connected with Renderosity/Daz staff & maybe not even reality, but that's another story.

I am not sure I understand some of the posts either.. I would think people would be thrilled with this , I have often seen on the forum were someone has distributed a freebie that was found to be in copyright violation ... this will save folks from making what may have been an inadvertent mistake.. and save us all from having to go through our downloads to delete a file that has been found to be in violation.. seems to me this saves us a lot of hassle. At any rate I applaud this move and thank Render for taking it.

trekkie - a quick solution for the request thing - when you've finished a model, want to get it out quick, just post a link here to the freebie page at 3DCommune, for instance. Then whoever it is doesn't have to wait 3 days. ---------------------------------------- I have this perpetual probelm in situations like this - I tend to see both sides of the argument. I fully appreicate Anton's viewpoint on this, the leeching must be depressing. But I also find it hard to accept the idea of waiting 3 days to see a freebie link pop up - the spontaneous nature of it all disappears, kind of kills this for many. So this is a situation that requires compromises. We'll just have to live with it. The leeching thing hardly affects me at all - I own all the originals of everything relevant here anyway (well 95% of it) so I know I have it already if I happen to DL a leeched freebie :o) So that's the solution folks!! Buy everything you see, then you have all the licences!!! Problem solved. :] Fish

That should be 'appreciate' of course.... Even tho' I proofread, I still miss things in that tiny 'post' window. :] Fish

This might help if I tell you exactly what to look for. This will help Caleb and you guys. Feel free to post this or use this info in the community if you feel it will help educate people on your site. Problems in Frestuff are usally in four areas: Hair, Morphs, Clothes, Body Textures Props There genrally ways in which innocent mistakes and deliberate acts manifest. These are generalizations and each instance is obviously unique.. --------------------------------------- Hair: Potentially Innocent: A morph is made for a hairstyle but it is provided as an obj. Poof! Instant hairdo without purchase. Check the textures though. Typical Excuse: "I didn't know" Fix: Destribute .hr2 only with morphs already loaded. Make sure no "custom geom" lines are present. This means the geometry has been imbeded. Happens when you export, import and resave. be careful you are not distributing an expansion back or morph add-on pack though. Potentially Deliberate: A hair mesh is subdivided, altered, but obiously is not thiers. Typical Excuse: "It is mine you bastard! How dare you!" or "I got it from a freesite and thought I was allowed to." Never use anything from someone else without knowing what their real name and address is. People lie. --------------------------------------- Morphs: Potentially Innocent: A morph is made for a figure but it is provided as an obj. Poof! Free mesh without purchase. Alot of LW, Maya, and 3dmax people know to come here for free Daz meshes. Typical Excuse: "I didn't know" Fix: Delete everything but the "V" lines in the obj. Or just keep in a stripped cr2. Potentially Deliberate: Someone elses morphs were combined into a hybrid and toted as original. Typical Excuse: "I made this from scartch you bastard! How dare you!" Hard to detect but not impossible. Fix: No fix. bad bad bad. I can provide Mods with a list of some of the telltale morph distortion to look for. Certain morphs always make the same patterns. Also transfering things like V2 morphs onto girls isn't good cause they can be transfered back again. --------------------------------------- Clothes: Potentially Innocent: Wow that shirt looks familiar. Just shorter. Almost no ways this can be accidental. Typical Excuse: "But so and so is doing it" or "I don't remember where I got the mesh" Fix: Tape their fingers together. Doing it for attention. Doesn't care. Potentially Deliberate: Altered clothing mesh not encoded by objaction mover, etc. Typical Excuse: "I made this from scartch you bastard! How dare you!" or "I though we were allowed to change it if we buy it." Fix:Encode it but ask the maker first. Some people depend on their own stuff to make new things. If you make everything out of their meshes, then they have nothing to make. --------------------------------------- Body Textures: Potentially Innocent: Part theirs part yours. Almost no ways this can be accidental Typical Excuse: "I used a freebie texture." Freebie texture was warez, endless vicious circle Fix: Never use anything from anyone you didn't make yourself. Potentially Deliberate: Someone makes a texture using other peoples textures Typical Excuse: "I made this from scartch you bastard! How dare you!" "But I bought it" Fix: No fix. bad bad bad. Make figure textures from scratch or have detailed documentation enclosed with text permission and sources listed including names and contact info. --------------------------------------- Props: Potentially Innocent: Copyright mesh shows up as a prop. Typical Excuse: "But the manual said I could make props from stuff" "I thought it was safe" Fix: Exporting and importing props will change the way the file is saved and embed it into the file. Make them for you only but don't distribute them without the creator's written permission. Or open the ball prop and edit the runtime path to point to the original but don't give out an obj you didn't make. Potentially Deliberate: Copyright mesh shows up as a prop. Typical Excuse: "I made this from scartch you bastard! How dare you!" or "I though we were allowed to change it if we buy it." Fix:Encode it but ask the maker first. Freebie props really should be from scartch. If you are unsure contact the maker.. --------------------------------------- People will almost never admit that they did something deliberately. After education there is almost no situation where the person should ever have an excuse for repeating the same mistake. Good peoplel do bad things all the time. Usually they rationalize it so theymay honestly have convinced themselves theyare right. This means they will usually do it again. Sadly they do so you might want to keep an eye or a record of what happened. Sadly we have alot of people floating around who were notorious copyright offenders in other communities like webdesign and font design. Now we got'em. :) Be weary of beta testers. a big chuck peer to peer warez comes from beta testers. They get it and give it to two friends, they give it to two friends, etc , etc. People say all Vicki's look alike. If the morphs are from scratch then they shouldn't. Red flags can include notorous shapes and features seen over and over. Just something to look for. Look for lasterpiece works of perfection from newbies. Usually sign that something might be wrong. Not that there is any foul play but there may be a informed mistake in the making. Again just something to look for.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I don't see anything wrong with the policy in principle. Hopefully, it will work out smoothly for everyone and not too many people will decide to go elsewhere. It would be a shame if everyone scattered to the four winds, making finding free items all the more difficult. I do sympathize with one sentiment expressed. It's not this policy in particular, just the recent creeping big brotherism in every aspect of life it seems. After a while, it really begins to get depressing. If anyone decides to stop posting here, i hope the let us know where their items will be - if posting a link will be permitted.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I don't understand the purpose of this, if the freestuff is hosted by Renderosity then can be some sense, but there are only links. I can post a link to some page, get the link aproved and then I can change my page contents any time I wish, the link to Renderosity remains the same, but the contents are variable!

Stupidity also evolves!

kawecki that is really clever. I never even thought of that. You are right. This whole thing is pointless. Amazing to know that there is a perfect;y simple way to by pass the whole thing if you want to cheat. Thanks. you really saved us alot of time by thinking we might actually be able to protect anyone. Wow that was foolish. Well if Renderosity sees it this way too that sure will kill the idea. Guys don't ever take up grief conseling.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

kawecki's idea works in theory but I don't see that it has much in the way of real practical application. Let's see ... suppose I want to distribute a character I made. I make two versions. One has a custom texture I made all on my own, the other has a ripped-off Daz texture. I post the first version on my site and submit a link here. Then once it's approved, I switch files on my site so that the zip file contains the second version with the rogue texture. Derr ... why would I bother? Unless I was evilly motivated and specifically wanted to rip off Daz out of sheer mischief, I can't see much point in the above procedure. Having gone to the bother of making a correct version, I wouldn't get any benefit from switching it with a bad one. Incidentally, there is another addition to the innocent excuses - "I thought it was public domain". I've seen so many characters come with Tim Lauerbach textures, some credited and with permission, most not. Presumably many people reckon these things have been kicking around for so long that they are now freely reusable. Particularly if they got them second hand and not from Tim's site. Similarly with many Posette morphs which are in general circulation but presumably started off from the hands of Trav or Jaager.

Honestly, sometimes I really want so smack my head against a wall. We've done this to try and make the freestuff area better with less problems with popups, porn links, links to pages where you have to go wading to find the files. Why is it that every time we try to improve things, to make the whole Rendie experience better, it gets thrown back at us as 'the downfall of Renderosity'. Very melodramatic, very attention grabbing I'm sure. For those of you who've shown your support, sincerest thanks for realising that our intentions are good. For those who are knocking, come up with some ideas of your own that might help. Thank you, Kevin. Rant off.

well umm I may be a little new to all this but what strikes me here is isnt it possible by doing this Rosity if effectivly putting itself first in the fireing line from irate merchants and creaters etc if their stuff should show up in the Rosity approved or varified links? As was mentioned above its a simple matter to change the original file on the host server. I dont have any issue with it being done it would atleast weed out unintentional mistakes etc,just thinking you might be handing yourself up for some greif later.

LMAO WOW...we need to move this to Geneva or something.

First, Lyrra, thanks so much for answering my question. Was just worried that links to a site rather than a file would not be approved.
Second, Im all for this measure. I dont mind waiting at all, if its protecting my stuff and if it protects others. I havent had anything pirated yet but then Im just getting into the "giving back" process.

Well Ill hush now. I have a Dew Catcher to finish.

Machine claw- its way different than dealing with airport security. That is the possible problems of life and death, where as in the freestuff, at worse it's piracy. Most of the people arent complaining with the system itself, but with possible misuse. Remember when SteffyZZ was making claims against other artists for stealing her work, yet analysis showed it wasn't? Well, if it comes down to a free thing and a marketplace item (or even a DAZ one), who do you think the admins and mods are gonna back up? Phantast - actually its quite simple, and not bothersome to do it. I've seen it happen before in other communities. People will slap together a two second texture (ala paint bucket fill in PSD or PSP), then as soon as its up, they'll switch it out so they can be made to look good when they really don't have the skill. Many people out there do it, because they are wannabe's. Anyone who deals with game mod's knows about it, because its a big problem there. I'm on the developement team for a 3d racing game, and we allow outside people to submit models, but so far we've had more copied work than original and that's why we now inspect each model individually (to compare against thousands of other models, 3rd party or not) and host it ourselves. That is something I know renderosity doesn't want to do

But at least if someone pulls a switch after posting there will be no possibility of their claiming innocence.

Anron - that bi-lingual copyright notice - can we all use that?? It's a great idea - even in a readme file! Frankly I think it's a good idea - my only concern is how does the tester/s know copyright infringement when they test it?? There is no way they can know all the products out there it's not feasible. As for body texture theft - why not just purchase SilverLeifs textures to use as a base or for various parts or partner with someone?? Seems a lot easier than ruining one's reputation by stealing.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

oops that should read "Anton"

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

If you guys would stop for a moment and re-read what Kawecki is saying, he raises a good point. The freebies are just links to something off-site, either a file or a download page. So Rsity checks on item at someone's site, approves the page link, and everything's fine. But then the owner of the page adds some new stuff that Rsity doesn't check because it never sees it because the page owner figures "Hey the link was approved; why bother?" Now, sure, it's 90+% likely that the owner of the page isn't going to be ripping anyone off (Heck, for all the freebies uploaded, how many are "derivatives"?), but the possibility still exists. But this is like the question I raised earlier: who has the intimate knowledge of the complete catalogue of Poser materials that will allow him to say whether or not something is completely original? God help the mod given this assignment, because the potential for overlooking something seems enormous.

just a quick question, (people have hashed the copyright issue to death... thanks for taking a stand on that) Actually, I'm wondering something else. What constitutes a porn link or an adult site? Some of my artwork isn't stuff I would post here, and I have my freebies on the same server. Its MY site, I manage and pay for it, nobody gets popups they don't want to see. Do I have to move my freebies if I post any adult artwork on other parts of my own website, even though nobody would see it by simply downloading my freebies? just wondering?

Nevertheless, the proposed vetting WILL get rid of links that go to unfriendly places, as Kevin points out above. And it may even weed out 100 reposts of "red texture for Kozaburo's Alice hair". So the procedure certainly has value. And as RHaseltine says, anyone pulling a switch is definitely guilty without hope of excuse, and these guys always get detected eventually. LadySilverMage - I'm sorry, but that copyright notice is copyright.

Bijouchat, if it is your own site, that you pay for, you should be able to link directly to the zip files on your server, and no-one can possibly object to that. It's links that send you to a page of an adult site that are not allowed, AFAIU.

Why "approve" a free item? To avoid "copyright violations" or to "micro-manage"? If an item is in violation of a copyright, someone tells an admin, there is a public witchhunt and the item is removed. And, no, the site is not "covering their butts". According to ditigal copyright rules, the site assumes that people are following the rules. The site only has a responsibility to remove an item when someone else claims that it's already copyrighted. If a site does not know that the item is copyrighted, but removes it upon notice of copyright, then they should be clear. However, if an item gets approved and THEN there is a copyright claim on it, the site becomes liable. For example, "You approved the Enterprise-E mesh your Free Stuff section. What do you mean you didn't know it's against Paramount's copyright rules to redestribute meshes of their ships? You mean your mod missed that? Well, what else did he miss? I'll see you in court." People have brought up other good points: will the new mod be able to keep up with approving the stuff? If he goes on vacation, sure, someone else can fill in for him, but what if his computer goes down and he can't approve stuff? Days turn into weeks and the people start to feel like vendors- they upload stuff and it takes weeks to get approved. Of course, people aren't losing revenue like the vendors, but stuff, when people don't see their free stuff posted for 5, 8, or 10 days, they get frustrated. And the worst thing for a website is to have frustrated users. And will the mod be researching every single item to make sure it's not a "derivative" of an item from DAZ, 3dcafe, scifi-mesh, or any other mesh/ texture sites? What if someone converts a 3ds object from a 3D Studio Max site and uploads it (without permission from the original creator)? Will the mod catch this? How will he know? Seems like a lot of work to me.

---

To get to the point, though: Why wait at all? Since all you're uploading to the Free Stuff is a "pointer" to the files on your own website, here's what you do: 1) Upload the file to the Free Stuff section. It will get approved whenever (depending on the size of the queue and such). 2) Post a message (with a large render of the item) to this forum, telling people that your item is now available on your website. Include a link to YOUR SITE (download page or the item itself), instead of the usual "Now in the Free Stuff section". (Incidentally, the graphic that you attach to your message post IS hosted here on Renderosity, unlike your Free Stuff thumbnail image, which is hosted on your site.) Alternatively, you could post a message here in the forum (again, with an image) saying that your item is available at 3D Commune or wheverer else. Make sure you include a link to the item. By the time your item is approved, everyone will have already have downloaded it from the link you provided in the Poser Forum. Of course, you can also post a second message (with an image, if you want) telling people that the item has been approved. In other words: Message Post 1: new item at my site (image and link to website) Message Post 2: (when item is approved) new item in Free Stuff (image and link to Free Stuff section) Message Post 3: (a few weeks later) look, I've reposted my item again (image and link to either website or Free Stuff section). This means that the this Poser FORUM becomes the place to upload links to free stuff (complete with large renders of the item)... and the Poser Free Stuff section dies away due to the "approval process".

Just to put the delay into perspective: there are currently zero items queued for approval. That means that in the first day of operation, all items were checked and approved within 24 hours. Kev.

Porn site - it depends on the pictures on the site. If you're not sure, IM one of us the link so we can take a look. My opinion on that situation would be if you have the freebies on a page that is not seriously adult in nature (including any banners) and if you have a warning on the page that other parts of the site are adult in nature, it ought to be okay, but I'll also ask the other mods and admins to see if we can get a more definitive policy on that. Cheers!

thanks, yes I will have disclaimers on the adult portions of my site, I just want to know what I'm allowed to do and if I have to move my links. :) mostly the stuff is really soft, its not totally there yet, but I want a definitive answer before discovering I could have a problem. :)

phantast, yes its my own site. they wont see banners or popups, I hate those things and I don't subject people to them either. I can very easily move the freebie to another domain name, its just a pain as I would have to move the free links at several sites and honestly that's not something I really look forward to doing. Nobody is going to see adult artwork unless they're actively looking for it. And if they're actively looking for it, they're going to hit content disclaimers first. (and it says a lot more about the people searching for "naughty pictures" than about my innocent minoan pottery freebie lol...)

Some comments: If someone wants to put copyright or warez material is more easy for him to put it at Kazaa or Gnutella p2p networks and not at Renderosity. So I start with a premisse that there are not bad intentions: Many of the freestuff has links to pages with many items. In these pages there are many freestuff, links, galleries that are changed within time, items are added, new pictures are added, maybe some can be of adult content! So the situation remains the same, with the new freestuff politics or with the old one. Another question is if member X have ripped a texture or copied a mesh of member Y, how the tester will know this? So, probably he will aprove the item and some time later member Y will discover his material and then Caleb will have a great headache! (I prefer to be in Bagdhad than being a tester).

Stupidity also evolves!

"Remember when SteffyZZ was making claims against other artists for stealing her work, yet analysis showed it wasn't?" Uh...no, I actually don't. I've proven three times on Renderosity alone that people were indeed stealing her material and using it in both free and commercial textures. I asked JenyK to do this exact thing for Marketplace items a long time ago, and she basically told me that it was impossible. How could only a few people on Renderosity know every inch of every popular texture, model, and morph so well as to be able to recognize it before it gets posted? And as far at that theory goes, she was right. Why should it suddenly work now? I feel for Anton, but I think a more effective way would simply to be to temporarily pull a free or Marketplace item IMMEDIATELY whenever someone can provide any evidence of infringement and then examine it more carefully. When someone made a goof and thought that my Vickybuster infringed on a DAZ texture, it was gone before I knew what hit me...so I know you guys can work fast when you have to. ;) Anyway, just my thoughts as always. Take care. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

its more easy for real warezers, but they lose the bragging rights value, kawecki. real warezers aren't looking for bragging rights on renderosity, they just want to redistribute software that they couldn't otherwise afford easily. I can live with that ethic, though it may hurt me. people that trade at kazaa know they are trading warez and keep themselves undercover. They aren't claiming they created the warez, they are just trading them. the situation is very different here. here people want to brag they created something cool, its nothing more or less than playing popularity games. some people here are truly talented and generous and make all kinds of freebies, and these people are well respected and liked here, for good reason. some people are envious of that kind of reputation and take the shortcut, by taking a mesh/texture already made, and manipulating it so they can claim they created it, and be the grand poobah without really working at it. you're very right in that its not warezing like that done on kazaa. I have more respect for the real pirates on kazaa, ftp sites and bbs's... they are working within their conscience... I understand their reasoning though we may not all agree with it. but freestuff social climbers... they don't get the same level of respect from me as the hackers do. c'est la vie. deal with it.

Because Renderosity is checking all freestuff uploads they can now guarantee to me that everything I download from freestuff is (1)legal to use (2)free of virii Correct? Or are they just checking for DAZ stuff?

its probably to take out the more obvious problem freestuff... people that link to aggressive popup or porn sites is a huge problem. I ran into that a few times, with gator and other assorted crap trying to install. If Rendo takes care of just that, I'm really happy HAPPY happy H A P P Y for it. ;-) but yeah, I'm sure they will check for the more obvious warezed items, but I doubt they can check for all of it, not even all of Daz... its just too much stuff. They'll have to rely on complaints from artists I'm sure.

Lyrra's said it, I've said it, so now I'll say it again. This all comes from the Free Stuff pages: "If you must link to a web page due to the nature of your ISP/hosting service, the FREE content MUST appear on the same page that is being linked to in the Free Stuff gallery entry." So we'll be checking that the link doesn't take you to somewhere where you have to go hunting for the freebie. "By providing a link to a Free Stuff item, you are representing that you are the sole owner of the intellectual property being offered. You agree to indemnify Bondware Inc. in any dispute which may arise regarding products that you offer through this site." So, as before, the onus is on the provider of the freebie. Simply by uploading you are telling us that it's yours to give away. If it turns out otherwise, i.e. we get a complaint on it, it'll be removed. We can't verify the authenticity of every linked freebie submitted. It would be beyond any site or organisation to do that. "We reserve the right to delete links to content and websites that we deem unsuitable for this community and its Terms of Service." So, no porn site links and any other type of site that would result in the link being pulled anywhere else on the site. "The links MUST BE TO FREE ITEMS. Any links found to non-free content will be immediately deleted." Nothing new here. "The content being linked to in this Free Stuff gallery has not been tested by Renderosity. Before opening any of these files, observe the usual precautions regarding files obtained from the Internet. We cannot guarantee, and will take no resposiblity for losses and/or damage caused to your computer due to use of any of these Free Stuff items. " So no, we're not guaranteeing that it's virus free. We can't do that, for just the reasons that kawecki mentioned above. "Renderosity does not host, or test, or in any way sanction or endorse these files/links but is providing this link database as a service to our members. " So it's just that. A database of links to free items. But it's a database of links that won't lead you to a porn site and won't require you to wade through a website to find the freebie. That's what we're trying to do. Kevin.

So, then, even by doing all this work Renderosity cannot guarantee to me that anything I download from freestuff is (1)legal to use (2)free of virii? Seems to me that since the checking is happening, that Renderosity should be legally responsible for the above now. No?

sigh No. I think what I said is clear enough.

damn, spit... do they have to bang it into your head? They are ONLY checking the validity of the freestuff links, they aren't testing freestuff for anything.

That was crossposted. I wrote mine before I saw Kbennet's.

hey guys, :| i didn't read all your posts, wow, lotta bad bits in here. we wanna make sure the links are valid for one, lotta bad links been posted lately. two we wanna make sure the files where there linking to, so the member doesn't have to search through a site for a half-n-hour just to try to find the freebie three - if the freebie is clearly a copyrighted product, then it won't end up in freebies. Mostly this is to help the members in the long run. I know i've downloaded some freebies here recently that were clearly a copyright issue. its not going to be anything like the marketplace testing process, thought that might clear even more up, its not being put that far.

OK Spit, sorry.

I think alot of people have gotten out of hand about this. From what I understand it's just a quick check to make sure the link works, and that the file is what it says. If you're submitting a freestuff item, and have to wait a day or two for it to be posted, what's the big deal? Most people aren't even going to notice. But I do have a suggestion for this, which would make extra work for freestuff contributors. Not a lot, mind you. Check to see if the readme file is named readme.txt. If so, let the poster know, and have them change it to something related to their product. That's one big beef I have with freestuff. Anyway, just a suggestion.

i got started in that habbit of doing that, naming my readme's like 'thisproduct_readme.txt' there is a problem though, if its over 32 chars it won't show the full name for mac users.

We'll do the best we can to catch warezed items and virii, but we can't guarantee we'll catch everything. We're not perfect, nor do we claim to be. We'll do the best we can to get free stuff approved and posted up in a timely manner. This system should help stop people who knowingly rip off others and to catch newbies who don't know the rules. When we catch a problem item, we can work with the uploader to get the issue resolved in a fair manner. It will help stop abuse of the system by people who force downloaders to wade through pages of ads to get to the freebie listed. (If someone changes the page after the freebie is posted to scam the system, please IM us so we can deal with it.) This is not being done just for DAZ, or just for Rendie merchants, etc. It is being done for everyone. We really are trying to make this as easy as possible while protecting people's rights and reputations. If anyone has suggestions to make this system work better, please let us know. Thanks!

will it stop the repeat posters? Like the kind soul who insists on reposting his textures every other day.

hopefully

"If you must link to a web page due to the nature of your ISP/hosting service, the FREE content MUST appear on the same page that is being linked to in the Free Stuff gallery entry." So does that mean that I can't link to the FRONT page on my website? You see, the downloads are divided into categories and the way my site's layout is made it is not practical (though of course possible) to link to this specific sub-page where the specific download is. I prefer to have people coming in thru my front door and not thru the window :o) But it looks like it's not allowed? Oh and btw it seems my site is down right now, so don't bother looking at it :o( I HAVE contacted the host.

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

Hey... I got a nice one. While we're updating the system... how bout a history file in our R'osity account. If you download something once it would tell you, no need to DL it again. Save bandwidth the hosts end. Drive space on the users end if he lost the file. I would also like to see more of a description, and preview renders. I mean... since you're changing things anyway why not make them a WHOLE LOT better? Might go a long way toward calming the disgruntled too. There would be an obviouse benefit tot he changes as well as the minor drawback of a wait. The free stuff should work almost the same as the marketplace, but with all links being external.

Well... At my site - which is in english, there is NOTHING but downloads. Only categorized. Sorry if you have clicked on something that belongs to me.

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

So all you're doing is checking links? That's cool, but how does that help people like Anton with a copyright infraction? There's still gonna be the massive number of downloads before anyone's the wiser. How many of the mods d/l'd the original Joyelle before finding out it was a rip-off? Not being a pain in the ass here, but just want to understand how this deals with DAZ's problems. Isn't that what sparked all this in the first place?

ernyoka - im checking on that, my site itself is also broke into sectional area's for the downloads, while i could easily make it direct to it buy building a new page frontend for the freebies sections it may just be simpler just to link to simple page and supply a link back to main site.

were checking both Joey, however some are pretty easy to tell there not a copyright issue. Others on the hand that we feel may be a potential copyright issue we check out the contents of the freebie before aproving/denining them. We also tell you why the freebie was denied if it gets denied.

Please, before you all start deciding that there is a mythical 3 day lag ...give us a week to show how fast we move on this, ok? It hasn't even been 3 days since this was changed rolls eyes honestly people, give us a chance, okay? Lyrra

"Uh...no, I actually don't. I've proven three times on Renderosity alone that people were indeed stealing her material and using it in both free and commercial textures" If that's so, then how come in some cases, several people (including myself) compared the textures, and found that the accused weren't stealing the textures? I remember the one I checked against, the accused's texture was put together using photos of herself (and very evident that it was just pasted together, no real work outside of that), while steffy's was heavily worked over with paintbrush and blur tools.

The problem is that by the time the item is pulled all the damage has already occured. Most recent one had 1400 downloads in under 48 hours. So simply removing them when you see them isn't working. It is not as simple as "When you see it just pull it". By then it is too late...way too late. Do you really think there would be a fuss if it was just that easy.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

"If that's so, then how come in some cases, several people (including myself) compared the textures, and found that the accused weren't stealing the textures?" I still don't remember that, but perhaps that was one of the times when Stefy didn't ask me to do a comparison. Anyway, this thread isn't really about that, I was just clarifying that Stefy's worries have usually been justified. Anton, I agree that it's usually too late to stop the damage once an item has been in Free Stuff for a day or so. I just think that it will continue to be you who points out such infringements, not anyone here. Regardless of what this new policy will do, I doubt it will really play a part in reducing texture theft (unless Caleb and the others have been studying some texture maps REALLY carefully). ;) I think that honest members publically pointing out these sorts of infringements will still be an important part towards reducing this problem. Take care. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Sigh. I think the issue here is that staff keeps insisting that this is just to check links while others keep mentioning copyrighted materials. Frankly if you are opening any of the files to check them then you are implying that you have cleared them of copyright infringements to those who download them. If as staff keeps saying you are only checking links to prevent abuse then there would be no need to actually open a file. Knowing that staff will be opening files is an implicit guarantee. Furthermore no one can make a declaration of copyright infringement except the original creator - nor do you have the right to question the legality of the usage. Example (I've used before): When I released my package "Secret's of Victoria" at DAZ it was accepted, a few days after it's release I got a polite letter from Reva with a reminder to insure that trademarks were not violated, se did not accuse me of anything. Had she accused me of a violation that would have been a problem, had she pulled my product it would have been an unfair business practice resulting in the loss of sales. I had already contacted Victoria's Secret and received their ok on the product and was able to provide her with the name of my contact there in case she had any doubts. DAZ of course had no way of knowing that, but they also could not accuse me of wrong doing. Equally I see Winnie the Pooh and Jonathon Bowser work all over the place. These would seem like infringements of copyright. I don't however have the right to accuse anyone, I don't hold the copyright. In fact I do hold permission letters from Jonathon Bowser to use his work in specific types of web graphics - as do others. There is simply no way the free stuff mods can know all the copyright materials or who has permission to use what. I released a character a few years ago as a freebie using a re-worked free texture from Jade_NYC. I had her permission to do so but a free stuff mod here wouldn't know that. There are also now several body textures for sale and free where the end user has the right to create free or for sale textures with them. Now should the tester see half a dozen similar textures from different creators they will question the copyright when in fact these items are all legally licensed. Anton keeps talking about testing for copyright infringement to prevent the downloads from occuring from the start. But that won't work everytime, nor according to staff is it the intention of the "testing". Every item won't be checked so there will still be slip-ups and things will sneak through. My point to this is that Renderosity doesn't really have the right to make a copyright infringement "claim" on anyone's work. They may remove it when a complaint is filed with them while it is investigated but they must not "assume" that a violation has occured. It is often common practice to "Suspend" something immediately upon receipt of a copyright complaint. That is in the legalities at 3DA. We use the following: "Any artist believed to be in violation of Copyright laws will be given 15 days to prove ownership, during this time their items will be placed on hiatus. 3-D Arena and it's above mentioned affiliates may not be held responsible for any loss of revenues during this time. Either party in a copyright dispute may request an appeal within 7 days to prove that they do indeed hold the copyright to the item/s in question. A decision will be made by the administrators at 3-D Arena within 5 days of the appeal. This decision is final in regards to 3-D Arena, it is not a valid claim of ownership outside of this domain." Generally this system works.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

I think the idea is a good one. Think about it. How many times do we see complaints about pop-ups in freestuff? Or pages where you have to "join" before you can even see the downloads? And then there's that guy who uploaded a file that when downloaded, gave access to your hard drive? This will solve all that. And anything that looks suspicious, such as a Daz texture, can be spotted quicker. It won't guarantee that something won't slip by but it's something at least.
As for the concern over the time it may take to be approved, it's a free item. How important is it that it's up the day you upload or the next day?

Anyway, I support the effort.

...... Kendra

"There are also now several body textures for sale and free where the end user has the right to create free or for sale textures with them. Now should the tester see half a dozen similar textures from different creators they will question the copyright when in fact these items are all legally licensed." This is a good point. Catharina Harders, for one, licenses her textures to other artists. I can name nearly a dozen textures in the Marketplace that legally, under a licensed right, use her "Anna Marie" or "Sara" as a base. I've also seen very basic painted Vicki and V3 texture maps being given away as freebies, with their creator's permission to use them as a starting point to make other free textures.

Dmentia also has a base texture that allows distribution. But if a base is used, credit should be posted either on the texture or in the readme anyway.

...... Kendra

Snow, I've seen two cases were steffy was wrong after examination of the textures. About a years ago and also two years ago. Both times, things were settled quietly outside of the public's view. oh well.

Gee why does it look like Anton's presenting himself as both an official DAZ spokesman and Renderosity policy maker? You might want to think about that. The more Anton jumps into this type of thread, the more I wonder if I really want to do business with DAZ any more. Hey, of course, I don't agree with piracy. But I don't like bullies either. Heck, you guys talk like you still host the freebies. You don't. But right now you're making a lot of honest and generous people mad. Maybe you ought to think more before you adopt a policy. Or at least you should think more about what words you use. And please, Renderosity mods, do something to help enforce the distinction between yourself and DAZ. You don't want us to think Anton runs the show?

Renderosity in general, wonderful job. Keep at it. Excellent work. Excellent. Caleb, I'm sure you'll be completely unbiased. You've indicated completely unbiased tendencies at all times in the past. Everyone else, just relax. Everything will be just fine. Trust me. -- Dodger XFX

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I really don't agree that there is any sort of implicit guarantee in the new system. That would be asking too much. As far as I'm concerned, checking things over is a service. It's also a free service. It doesn't have to be perfect, and one shouldn't expect it to be perfect by some sort of right. If it catches MOST abuses, that's better than not catching any at all. If a few non-obvious copyright violations slip through the first checking procedure, I can live with that. Particularly if one gets the benefit of no more dud links. Incidentally, this business of people trying to get instant credit by passing off the work of others - yes, I know people do it. But when will they learn? They always get spotted in the end. And being branded as a thief is not the way to get respect in the community.

I should state more clearly that I am all for checking links for abuse and being dead. My concern is the copyright aspect of it - that opens a can of worms. I know and most people know who read the forums that there is no guarantee that the items are copyright free. But how many members don't read the forums and will only read that the items are approved beforehand? As for creating things for others and having to wait - why?? If you make it for someone send them the direct link to it - or to your site. Or as stated simply post that it's available here. While it may be polite to state that the texture used is a base from someone else that could be seen as infringement if the person viewing the file doesn't realize it's licensed. Also Dmentia has never required or asked for credit. Generally licensed items aren't credited. Example how many web designers use royalty free stock photos? They don't give credit to the photographer either. So I am all for the checks for link abuse - I would love to see less copyright infringement in the freebies - but I don't think this will accomplish it. Except perhaps for DAZ items or top selling merchants. Not due to favortism but because their items are recognized more easily. As for DAZ items Anton already stated "over the past few months we have already gone through most of the Freestuff section" so that apparantly means that DAZ is watching out for itself - which is correct, it is a copyright holder's (or their legal representative) responsibility to validate and inform of copyright infringement.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

A thing I just thought of concerning the DAZ arguement. With in the two years that I've been into Poser, I've seen a shitload of times where right after a popular product is released to the store or freeplace of one of the big three (renderosity, rnda, and 3d commune), DAZ will show up with their own version shortly there after, sometimes with in a week. My question, is will they try to do something underhanded and claim copyright infringement on the item that they appeared to have copied? I've seen it before, when r'osity and the others will side with the bigger money maker, and DAZ has done alot with r'osity in the past.

Copyright would apply to the mesh, morph deltas and textures, not to the general "look and feel". so that's a pretty unlikely scenario, even if DAZ did rush out a knock off. More likely such things happen when ideas are just "in the air" and several people are working in parallel.

I say screw the Renderosity Free Stuff. Anyone who has free stuff to give away could just put it on a web site where people can go to see it. Then just tell folks where to find the site. I still can't get past the notion of Anton appointing himself DAZ spokesman, and also taking upon himself the role of Renderosity staff member.... He goes through Renderosity Free Stuff and dictates policy as well. Look for another round of honest free stuff providers dropping out.

Wait, all the mod is doing will be checking to make sure the link works? He's not going to open every file and check it against known files for copyright violation after all? And how will he know if the person has a license to use the "copyright violation" item? Is he going to hold the item indefinitely because of the "copyright violation" (and, as usual for this site, not tell the person)? Like someone else said, does Renderosity have the right to say something is a violation of copyrights, or can only the copyright holder make that claim? Like someone else mentioned, will the mod also be checking for items that are reposted every week (such as the never-ending "Red Texture for Koz Hair" thing)?

Legally no one has the right to make a "copyright infringement" claim other than the original copyright holder. Technically they are supposed to "assume" (yeah yeah I know what they say about assuming) the files are legitimate unless contacted by the holder of the right to copy. They only become liable for infringement actions if they have been contacted and ignored the complaint and allowed the file to remain. Prior to notification they are not responsible for infringements. However it would seem good practice to also do a 2 strike thing or something similar - if a member has been known to violate copyrights 2x's or whatever they decide then the person should not be allowed to post or sell items for at least a set amount of time - if ever. That protects 'rosty and saves them the time of always checking that person's files. Just a thought.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

If you want to check for dead links, offsite porn links or verify that the file listed actually exists, I would think that there are automated ways to accomplish that a lot faster with very little human intervention. As for the copyright issue, it's obvious that no one is going to be able to detect altered versions of all the available models, textures etc. Given that fact, it seems clear that in practice, that infringements on items by DAZ and a few other popular creators will be the ones caught. The smaller, more obscure creators will continue to have to rely on the vigilance of the rest of us as always. Basically, it seems like a way of protecting DAZ. There's nothing wrong with that, though perhaps they should be doing the monitoring themselves.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

The screen may have a coarse mesh, but is that any reason not to put it in place? Even if midges get through, at least we won't be bothered by horseflies. As for claims of conpyright infringement, all R. has to say is that they won't provide a link to item x because they are "concerned about possible copyright issues" - as a private site they aren't obliged to carry anything anyone puts up. They could also pass the link on to the putative owner, and no doubt be called stoolies.

"Copyright would apply to the mesh, morph deltas and textures, not to the general "look and feel". so that's a pretty unlikely scenario, even if DAZ did rush out a knock off. More likely such things happen when ideas are just "in the air" and several people are working in parallel." Well, in the past, people here have claimed copyright infringement when it only looked the same. Also, its really easy to change a mesh. If I wanted to, in 5 minutes, I can take Vicky and run some modifiers to have the mesh being totally different and be able to trace back really. If people can do that, and distribute the model as their own, different companies and people such as DAZ would be more likely to go by just appearance.

We are NOT checking for copyright infringements. If we see something that is an obvious violation we will contact the poster. Checking every file would be next to impossible, and would cause a serious lag. Frankly ... adding that kind of workload would make all us mods hide in our caves and not come out again. Anton works for DAZ ... BUT unless he specifically states that he is speaking for DAZ ... presume that he is just a regular member here. Official DAZ announcmenets here are usually made by DanFarr. I would be deeply surprised if DAZ didn't check the freestuff, it is their right to do so and a good idea IMHO. Okay? we all sorted out? now ...go make something grin Lyrra the Tired

Anton, I'm curious, where are your freestuff contributions? Personally, I've removed mine. I assume because they were still there they either hadn't been checked or were about to be removed because they're hosted on an adult site's server. So, it's the community's loss.

We are not checking all the existing links in freestuff unless there is a complaint. If you have existing stuff in freestuff, don't you worry about it - we sure aren't.