Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL


Subject: Is any of this your ART WORK?

Turtle opened this issue on Apr 19, 2003 ยท 141 posts


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:15 PM

I'm going to put up the pictures of the tubes.

Love is Grandchildren.


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:15 PM

another

Love is Grandchildren.


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:16 PM

another

Love is Grandchildren.


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:17 PM

another

Love is Grandchildren.


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:17 PM

another

Love is Grandchildren.


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:18 PM

again

Love is Grandchildren.


judith posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:18 PM

First 3 are Sarsa's I believe and the last one is elizabyte's.

What we do in life, echoes in eternity.

E-mail | Renderosity Homepage | Renderosity Store | RDNA Store


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:18 PM

another

Love is Grandchildren.


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:19 PM

again

Love is Grandchildren.


judith posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:19 PM

oops.... s/b #4 is elizabyte's

What we do in life, echoes in eternity.

E-mail | Renderosity Homepage | Renderosity Store | RDNA Store


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:20 PM

again

Love is Grandchildren.


judith posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:20 PM

8/9 is Sarsa's

What we do in life, echoes in eternity.

E-mail | Renderosity Homepage | Renderosity Store | RDNA Store


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:20 PM

again

Love is Grandchildren.


moochie posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:20 PM

These are all stolen from FaerieWylde. They're all recent, too. Bloody outrageous (pardon my Esperanto).


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:21 PM

mine

Love is Grandchildren.


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:23 PM

mine and none of these I posted at F.FW. They were Posted here at Ren. and one of thoes I think Sarsas was posted here too.

Love is Grandchildren.


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:24 PM

Got Tubes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GotTubes/ Cute Tubes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cute-Tubes-4-U/ These are the two groups that has these. Heres my last one for today.

Love is Grandchildren.


tasquah posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:27 PM

After seeing Turtles post yesterday i took a look at some of the tubers yahoo sites. this is what is posted reguarding copyright issues : 3. Feel free to share whatever tubes ect that you collect from other groups, Just because a person tubes an image, that DOES NOT give them any sort of copyright over that image ... ONLY the ORIGINAL ARTIST holds that copyright, and can say legally what can and can not be done with that image, so SHARE away folks! In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is being distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational or criticism purposes only. Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml We are not doing this for profit of any kind, it is only for fun, we are not breaking any copyrights.


Blazerwiccan posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:37 PM

This is soo sad. I know most of these beautiful images. If I find anyone stealing any of my work Not that mine is good enough for this lol I would be so pissed off and hurt. I lot of time is put into our work and to have someone take our worka nd make them into yubes for all to use is downright WRONG!!! Here is a list of most of these works and who made them. #1 is Sarsa Seen Here http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=354804 #2 seen here http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=353140 #4Seen Here http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=352340 are elizabyte's #4 she had at Poser Pros for awahile even won a contest there with it I do belive #3 is dolfijntjes seen here http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=352994 #5 is By Puntomaus Seen here http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=351573 #6 IS rjghise Seen Here http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=351452 #7 is Sarsa Seen Here http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=351178 I feel they have evry right to be know as the creators of this work and to not be ripped off also to know they have been ripped off.


Blazerwiccan posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:40 PM

BTW Look at what Puntomaus put in her image credits *Image number 5: "Image not available for tubes, websets and other stuff. " PS forgive all myy typos it has been a long day and this shit makes me soo mad. :(


tasquah posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:45 PM

The owner moderator for Cute-Tubes-4-U/ is a person with the name Woodmouse29 and one of her websites is here http://groups.msn.com/TheBearsDenCoven with this email address woodmouse22@shaw.ca The tuber Tina Gillilan email address is tina_gillilan@yahoo.com That was all i could find out about her for the moment.


genny posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:49 PM

So, Please tell me, what can I do? I really don't know how I can help to stop this kind of thing from going on? Genny


dolfijntjes posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:57 PM

Yes two are mine Sadie and Areophany number 1 and 8 are Sarsa's and number 13 and 5 is from puntomaus. I think their is not much we can do. I don't want to put my work in a dark corner than it's no fun anymore if I can't share. But I hate it that people abuse my hobby ^^%&^%&%$^W#


praxis22 posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:59 PM

OK, So I'm dumb, but what exactly is a tube? later jb


Dizzie posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 5:59 PM

There's nothing you can do...if you spend hours getting one email group shut down, they'll just open up another in another name and there are hundreds out there...that;s why I said the only hope is post your images with your name across them to deter them from even wanting them in the first place...


Dizzie posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 6:01 PM

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1201198

read this thread for explanation of Tubes...

Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 6:11 PM

They go for the ones that are easlily cut. Espeially the white background ones. I don't what the answere is. I know they steal more than Fairy stuff-Pictures, but this is what my informer likes. But you better believe they are stealing from all of us. I'll have my husband check into the copywrite law. I wouldn't trust what thoes groups print out to try and justify there Taking out work and adding to and messing it up/ Jerks don't even give us credit. My husband is now retired,but he's a former asst Attory General for the State of Michigan.

Love is Grandchildren.


Puntomaus posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 6:15 PM

Image #4 is from Elizabyte and has been featured image of the week at PoserPros too. #5 and #13 are mine and like Blazerwiccan already said: under the Koshini image was a clear statement that my image is not available for tubes, websets and stationary. What poor morons that have to steal other peoples artwork because they have no imagination and talent to make their own.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange


Puntomaus posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 6:18 PM

*In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is being distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational or criticism purposes only. Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml * Haha, very funny. So they are tubing our images only for research and teaching - do they all sit in a classroom and after they've done write an article about it and post it in a newspaper?

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange


tasquah posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 6:20 PM

Yahoo! respects the intellectual property of others, and we ask our users to do the same. Yahoo! may, in appropriate circumstances and at its discretion, disable and/or terminate the accounts of users who may be infringing the intellectual property rights of others. If you believe that your work has been copied in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, or your intellectual property rights have been otherwise violated, please provide Yahoo!'s Copyright Agent the following information: an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright or other intellectual property interest; a description of the copyrighted work or other intellectual property that you claim has been infringed; a description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the site; your address, telephone number, and email address; a statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright or intellectual property owner, its agent, or the law; a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your Notice is accurate and that you are the copyright or intellectual property owner or authorized to act on the copyright or intellectual property owner's behalf. If you are seeking permission to use Yahoo! trademarks, logos, service marks, trade dress, slogans, screen shots, copyrighted designs, or other brand features, please contact the permission requests department, not the copyright agent. Yahoo!'s Agent for Notice of claims of copyright or other intellectual property infringement can be reached as follows: By mail: Anthony P. Coll c/o Yahoo! Inc. 701 First Avenue Sunnyvale, CA 94089 By phone: (408) 349-5080 By fax: (408) 349-7821 By email: copyright@yahoo-inc.com


dolfijntjes posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 6:20 PM

mine diddn't have a white background both of them so that's not the answer to prevent this


SamTherapy posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 6:24 PM

None of these images are mine - and I doubt if mine would ever be tubed, but... Here's the deal, folks... My images are mine, and mine alone. I created them, and I get to say where and how they can be used, by what methods and in which ways. If you copy any of my images without my express written permission, you are stealing from me, and breaking any and all applicable copyright laws. Just thought I'd make that nice and clear. :)

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery


DarkElegance posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 7:16 PM

GUH again!?! the only way I know to make it hard on someone steeling an image is to put your sig right across the bloody thing. like Linda Brkvst does {I know I spelt that wrong but sorry} and most servers will take down the work that is used. Also I hate to tell those out there that like to hide behind that fair usage thing only if you give proper credit and contact information to the creator of a piece can you hide behind that one legaly. it doesnt look like that was done.{specially if one of them said it was not to be used for tubes etc etc that is clearly stateing that it was not allowed there for negateing any fair usage} I know this past summer I spent alot of money on copyright infringment due to MSN not takeing care of crap.{retainer alone for a lawyer was 5ooo dallors that was just a retainer} They refused to take down work that I proved was mine and that I had not given permission to use. and it was NOT used to make money it was simply used with out permission.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/



Commission Closed till 2025



DarkElegance posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 7:18 PM

oh P.S, they DID end up taking it down ;)

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/



Commission Closed till 2025



Kurgen posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 7:20 PM

Anyone know much about watermarking pictures? I had a thing that did it at one time but it wasnt a good one and degraded the image quality quite badly, just wondering if theres something that does this a keeps the image at a decent quality. At least then we can identify the image as origanly ours?


DarkElegance posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 7:33 PM

digimark does it. it comes with ps and psp most times

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/



Commission Closed till 2025



sandoppe posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 7:43 PM

I don't care if they are making a profit or not, I don't believe they can distribute your work in any form without your prior permission and I don't think some stupid "disclaimer" will protect them should someone decide to go after them about it. Plus I don't believe the USC code they site covers them in the least as they are distributing them in the same way people distribute freebies here. The code has to be read in it's entirety....they pluked out what they thought would protect them, IMO. I'll be interested in hearing your husband's thoughts Turtle. There must be someone here who is versed in copyright law. Maybe a post that asks for copyright expertise will help?


Poppi posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 8:04 PM

digimark can be cloned out. what you need to do is this...it won't completely fix it but will make it harder to copy and tube your image..do the edges of your figure in photoshop....go over them, amd spraypaint....when you merge it will be harder to tube. make intricate backgrounds...many tubers go for the black or white backgrounds...they are soooo easy. nag renderosity to crack down on lists. not only do they steal images, they swap programs, (driving YOUR prices up), and, vote one another into our hot 20.


3-DArena posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 8:20 PM

That is ridiculous - I am so sick to death of people touting "fair use" as if they know what they are talking about! Fari use means you can use it to review or for educational purposes it does not meann that you can distribute it if you don't make a profit!! Tubes, email stationary, linkware and the like are not public/fair use at all. But as has been stated you can close down one group only to find dozens more like them.


3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo


sandoppe posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 9:51 PM

The only problem is that now they will have to go out and buy Poser and then we'll have to put up with 'em here...."trolling" around!! :) Seriously sarsa, I don't blame you one whit. It is a shame that work can't be shared without having to worry that some good for nothing will steal it. I don't guess I'll ever create anything anyone would want to take, but I know I'd be angry if they did!


Turtle posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 10:19 PM

I just Watermark the picture I just posted. and I did it with psp and I first did it on my art computer. When I got it to this computer I said what the heck I'll do two. The psp on this computer said this image is already watermarked. Cool, I've had that program since I started and never thought I would use that feature. So at lest I know it works. I think we should all write our congressmen about this.

Love is Grandchildren.


Kendra posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 11:27 PM

I really recomend you delete the personal info in your post. Whatever your reasons for posting it, it's just not cool.

...... Kendra


Jaager posted Sat, 19 April 2003 at 11:33 PM

The part that would really set me off - the signature implies that the original art work is by that person. She obviously thinks the tube production is more creative than what it took to do the original art since her name is larger than the credit for the original artist - infinitely larger. This is just flat out plagerism.


Migal posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 12:13 AM

Yes, Kendra. Perhaps it is best I demonstrate a level of consideration somewhat above that of the thief in question. The point is, nobody should be stupid enough to redistribute another's work as their own because they think they cannot be found.


Kendra posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 12:44 AM

I know. I just didn't want to see you get in any trouble for it is all. I understand the frustration.

...... Kendra


DarkElegance posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 1:11 AM

I think the idea about writing out congress men is a great idea. perhaps a petition if you will. that will show that the laws need to be changed. kinda makes you wish right click didnt exist doesnt it?

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/



Commission Closed till 2025



Fashionably_Late posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 1:49 AM

There actually is a way to disable right-click on websites, though I've only seen it successfully used once or twice. Of course, until everyone uses the exact same browser on the exact same platform you can't guarantee that the code will work properly for everyone...

It is something though, and I was able to find a link to the source code.

Take a look.

It is extremely frustrating to see this happen as often as it does in art communities across the web... I remember back in 1999 many artists and web designers closed their sites for 24 hours in honor of "Gray Day", in order to show people what the web would be like without the contributions of artists. I really hope it never has to come to that, but I agree that something needs to be done to protect people's creations.

-Molly


Migal posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 1:52 AM

Attached Link: http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/iclp/hr2265.html

They are intentionally quoting very outdated copyright law. The NET Act says this is Piracy, a criminal offense. It is another form of warez, no different than providing mp3 music for others. The redistributor does not have to profit in order to break the law, because they are removing the rightful owner's ability to control the distribution of their work and potentially profit from it.

Tack on the fact that it is a "ring," with the expressed purpose of breaking the law, and it is racketeering. Not "I killed Guido for the Don," racketeering, but it is organized crime.


DarkElegance posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 2:12 AM

on the web sites I have built for myself and others I know the varied no right click scripts and I also know there are ways around everyone of them. it is so frustrating that it is not even funny. the fact that particularly with explorer all you have to do is mouse over most pics and you then get the icons to either save it or send it via email doesnt help either it is like they are contributing and encouraging the theft of images.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/



Commission Closed till 2025



sandoppe posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 2:15 AM

Ahhh....I knew that copyright reference had to be wrong or at the very least not quoted in its entirety! Thanks for posting the latest Migal.


Migal posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 2:37 AM

Even if the artists aren't charging an admission fee to have their work seen, if they choose to display their work on specific web sites, and those web sites benefit as a result of the display, either by selling related products or by selling banner advertising based on traffic generated by the art, profit is being stolen.

Making a case isn't hard. Getting a prosecutor to pay attention in times like these is another matter. Which is why ridding the offenders of their illusion of anonymity is the quickest, least expensive way to increase their cooperation. But, as Kendra pointed out, it is rather "hardball" and probably best left as a last resort.

Then again, when they respond to requests to cease and desist with, "you can't stop us. There is nothing you can do about it," I can't help but think of them as children who need a spanking.


Chailynne posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 2:51 AM

As someone mentioned earlier, no right click doesn't really work unless they don't know their computer well. Everything is sent to your cache anyhow and browsing your cache will get you the pictures you want. The only way to stop it is to shut them down and try to keep educating people... along with what Sarsa has sadly had to do. :(


Puntomaus posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 3:15 AM

There are Meta tags that go into the head of a webpage that disable the display of the IE6 toolbox that let you save or send and image with email. And there are Meta tags that prevent caching the webpages.

[META HTTP-EQUIV="cache-control" CONTENT="no-cache"]
[meta name="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing" content="true"]
[META HTTP-EQUIV="imagetoolbar" CONTENT="no"]
[link rel=alternate media=print href="printversion.html"]

You would have to change this [ ] to this <>. The last tag is for printing out an alternate document with your copyright information when someone hits the printbutton of their browser - only IE I think but at DynamicDrive they have often lots of cross-browser scripts although the above Meta Tags are made with Dreamweaver Extensions.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange


rjghise posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 3:30 AM

#6 is mine, but she didn't have those yucky yellow wings in my original picture!


elizabyte posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 4:53 AM

Two of those are mine. In order to do that, this woman HAD to deliberately edit out an extremely obvious watermark/signature that identifies the work as mine. I've contacted Yahoo (not that I think that'll do any good, but I thought I'd at least make them aware of the issue) and publicized this woman's actions in a number of appropriate places. Right now I'm working on an image for her, and I'll post to this thread with the link when I'm done. At least one of those images was posted ONLY to Poser Pros and nowhere else, not even my own domain (it was a contest entry). So I'd say that's where she got at least one. The other one that she stole was a contest winner at Poser Pros (Front Page Image of the Week), so it's pretty identifiable and it's bloody easy to prove that it's mine. I can see that in the future I'll have to put the signature/watermark on my image in a way that mars the image enough that it's not as attractive to idiots like this. And you know, if you lack the talent and ability to make your own images and just have to resort to stealing other peoples' work, perhaps you should find a hobby that ISN'T graphics related. Duh. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


Darkginger posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 4:54 AM

Attached Link: http://www.reasoft.com

I had to find an easy (and cheap!) way of watermarking a batch of pics recently (for an artist's website I was building - she does black & white indian ink drawings, dead easy to steal if you have a mind to), and I found a bit of software that did the job easily. You might want to check it out (these are visible watermarks, not embedded). It's called ReaWatermark, and you can download it from the linked site above. Hope someone finds it useful!

elizabyte posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 7:14 AM

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=383138

I've made an image just for Tina Gillian. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


Puntomaus posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 7:16 AM

Attached Link: http://www.bildschutz.de

I have another programm that adds watermarks to your images. The freeware version runs without registration but has not all the options the registered version has. On their download page you will find an english version too, it's very easy to understand and it has even the option to tile the watermark all over your image. I've added an image (don't laugh, it's from my Poserbeginnings and two years old) as example..

You can select between text or grafic watermark, select the transparency level, what file format (gif, jpg, png, bmp) to save the image, file compression level, save folder etc.

Shame on me, I've got this program for several month sleeping on my hard drive - but now it's definitely the time to finally make use of it!

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange


Puntomaus posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 7:20 AM

LOL@Bonni - I love your image - it sais just what I feel.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange


Poppi posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 7:24 AM

if we could convince r'osity and the other gallery sites to allow us to upload in a format that supports layers, like psd.....we could load a transparent top layer to our graphics and that would be all that the tubers would come away with.


BellaMorte posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 7:37 AM

For the person who asked about what's a tube... PSP has a tool called the "Picture Tube". PSP users can open any image in PSP, select the part they want, place it on a transparent background (NOT A GIF) and then export it so it becomes a tube (a PSP native image format with the extension tub). Then the user can select the tube tool and start creating images with the various clipped images they have in their tubes collection. Think of them like stickers. Used with layers, the user can create almost 3d like images. I hope this answers your question.


Migal posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 7:47 AM

Oh, Bonni. My goodness. That was truly enjoyable!


shadri posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 7:53 AM

Disabling 'right-click' isn't going to help, except with the very non-technical sort of image thieves. There are five easy ways to copy an image from a web-page with right-click disabled, and only three of them can be code-protected against. (God, that last sentence was a grammatical nightmare!)

I'm not going to list the ways, in hopes that these jerks ARE completely computer-clueless


dolfijntjes posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 8:49 AM

I mailed this person also and told her she stole my work and that she diddn't have the permission and that she should remove my images with her name on it. This is her answer: Already done! I have already been contacted about this and gave my word... No more tubing anything of the internet l.o.l. it isn't worth the trouble no matter how much I enjoy it... I have even left all the yahoo groups! I am not a hard person to get along with so please just keep your eyes open and you will see... Oh and by the way, it would appear that you got the preview of the tube, on the tube there is 2 layers and the layer that has (tube by Tina) means that I only tubed it, it isn't claiming the art work. But like I said I have spoken to Turtle about this and she did post my letter about it on the site stating that I gave my word not to touch anymore art work!!! And the thing is, I meant it.... And if someone out there in the tube lists want to continue to copy and paste my name on tubes they have done and then say I did it, well someone needs to go into those groups and see for themselves that I am not even in the groups anymore...


elizabyte posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 9:21 AM

Well, because I know people make mistakes and because I like to give the benefit of the doubt to people when I can, I did remove her name from my weblog and from the image here at R'osity that mentioned her (but I kept the image because I like it :) ). I mean, I'm still angry about it, but I'm willing to believe that she was just misled by the morons who claim that redistribution is perfectly okay so long as "it's just for fun" (grrrrr). I have gone back and redone some watermark/signatures on some of my images, though, to try to discourage this sort of thing from happening in the future. But hey, at least I got a fun and amusing image out of it. ;) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


3-DArena posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 10:05 AM

LOL Love it bonni!!


3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo


MadMac420 posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 10:26 AM

"And if someone out there in the tube lists want to continue to copy and paste my name on tubes they have done and then say I did it, well someone needs to go into those groups and see for themselves that I am not even in the groups anymore..." That right there set off warning bells for me. I must admit though, I am not a very forgiving or trusting person, it's a character flaw. :(


elizabyte posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 11:07 AM

I'm not very forgiving, either. I just decided to remove her name because it seemed appropriate. I just read in another forum that this woman has been doing this for years and she says she's stopped or that she will stop and then turns right around and does it again. We shall see. This is annoying. I don't actually want to stop posting images to Renderosity, but I will do so if it continues to be a problem. Grrr. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


3-DArena posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 11:55 AM

The thing is that some of the artists here do make money off their art in a variety of ways. Through webgaphics, prints etc. So if they are distributing the images as tubes they are most definitely open to a lawsuit for loss of income. If I make an image specifically for a web design that I sell(and I have done so) and they distribute the image as a tube I lose income because someone can make their own set or linkware more easily with the tube. Equally if I claim (and I do) that the art on the sets are original and someone sees linkware sets with the same artwork it destroys the "original" "limited editions" that I offer. Doesn't matter if they are only re-distributing something they found (The most common excuse) they didn't make it so they are liable.


3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo


Penguinisto posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 12:19 PM

..."if we could convince r'osity and the other gallery sites to allow us to upload in a format that supports layers, like psd.....we could load a transparent top layer to our graphics and that would be all that the tubers would come away with." Technical problem with that... most brosers won't know what to do wth a .psd file (unless you can have some sort of plugin available.) Also, GIMP puts layered images in .xcf or uncompressed .psd format - compressed .psd may not show up at all in Mac or Linux browsers. (err, the following applies in the US only, but check with local laws anyway.) Personally, if you find someone ripping off your artwork, find out where they live, and if it is close enough, you can file a court claim for copyright infringement. It's actually not all that expensive, and if you claim up to $1000.00 US, it's small claims. If the offending party doesn't show up, you win by default and their wages are garnished automatically. If they do show up, make sure there's a laptop with an internet connection handy, and be prepared to show the judge all of your intermediate stages, as well as a dated final stage that predates the "tube." It will cost you a day off of work plus a $35 filing fee (or so), but you will reap $1000.00 or so by judgement (and can even have the offender's wages garnished to insure you get it.), PLUS the filing fee. If they live out of state, you can file a complaint with the offender's Att'ys General office - some states will prosecute offenders for you. Me, I prefer to have their ISP cut 'em off at the knees... Of all the things I hate about the DMCA, ISPs do pay immediate attention to DMCA violation notices, and will act on them in a heartbeat - this is how you find your violator and discover where they live... and if they use something like Yahoo!, then Yahoo! can be talked (upon your showing them evidence of violation) into providing the home ISP info of the offender.You then go to the home ISP and let them know what's up, demanding a remedy to the situation. To avoid losing safe harbor protection, the ISP usually cuts the offender's account off. The expense and frustration DSL and Cable users will find in re-establishing an Internet connection (if you're lucky, they're stuck with going back to AOL on dial-up) is more than enough punishment (evil grin.) /P


tasquah posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 1:35 PM

Hmm dolfijntjes not sure when Tina means she stoped posting because on the 18th . 2 days ago she posted this : "Not gotten off the internet! ENJOY!!! " in a yahoo tuber group claiming this was a legal tube hehe yah right now she has copyrights to this movie as well as disney .

Turtle posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 3:04 PM

tasquah, Send that to disney, they go after tubers. They close down sites. Just like the Elvis stuff is so tightly copyrighted and they just go for anyone stealing.

Love is Grandchildren.


dolfijntjes posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 3:11 PM

Great work from this Tina women that's from Harry Potter right? Saw that movie two days ago. Stupid me I just want to believe it when people talk to me but I had to know better.....


Kiera posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 3:44 PM

Sort of a tongue in cheek question here. ;) If Poser users are accused of not being "real artists" then what does that say about people who make tubes from Poser work? teehee! =) Image theft is rampant on the web. Right click scripts don't work and annoy people. For instance, I have a bunch of handy utilities in my right click menu that do things like disable colors, use different style sheets, increase font size, etc.. Disabling right click means I can't use any of those things and doesn't work anyway.. you can dig images out of your cache, take screenshots, etc. There are 2 major things I am concerned about, personally, as someone who posts things on the web. 1) That people will use my work in a web design that they got paid to create. 2) That someone will profit off my work by using it in a subscription type wallpaper site, selling it on zazzle, whatever. I am generally safe because I use a lot of nudity and portray "ugly" subjects quite often. I have limited resources, but if I find someone using my work, I will at LEAST write to the ISP to get their site shut down. I suggest anyone who gets ripped off do the same.


tasquah posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 3:58 PM

The Walt Disney Company and its affiliates are in the process of an e-Mail system upgrade so i will call and find out tomorrow who i need to contact about this.


tasquah posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 4:29 PM

Opps well i sent them a tinkerbell sample she uploaded as well. but i will send this one to warner brothers . Doesnt hurt to have to many big corarations on your side.


sandoppe posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 4:41 PM

This Tina is not the "sharpest tack in the box" is she. Someone should probably notify JASC about this as well. She's using their software to perform her illegal work. JASC makes Paint Shop Pro. If she has it, they know who she is. I don't think they would approve....they're a good firm. I would also post something about this in the PSP forum here at Rendo. Get the word around about her and the issue itself. She sounds like a 12 year old....or someone with the brain of a 12 year old!


BellaMorte posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 5:04 PM

If no one objects, I would like to post a link to this message in two PSP communities forums. I won't do this until someone says it is ok. I know them and they do not tolerate this sort of thing because they would lose the backing of Jasc if they condoned such actions


sandoppe posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 6:33 PM

I would certainly encourage you to do it BellMorte, but Turtle is the one who started the thread. Makes sense to me though....as does sending an email to JASC with the name of the offender. They may take action against her themselves since she's using their product to do this.


DarkElegance posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 7:27 PM

actually about the copyright infringment in court you can only sue for loss of income if you have your copy right actually registerd {this is not expensive to do most times about 30 dollars for me when I did it} {also for those that may not be able to afford a lawyer most states have a legal aid which works on a sliding scale and they can help you wish any questions on the matter as well} What is a pain in the arse, is that most of the time the paperwork and the legal prossess you have to go through IS expensive as you also have to go through the server that they used. {I had to do this with microsoft I had to get a court order to get records showing this person KNEW full well they were stealing and was doing it with purpose and had done so repeatedly}THAT cost a HUGE amount and I dont know about the rest of you but as a Working mother that does make income from my work {off and online} it took a healthy chunk from my income to do it all. What I find totally disgusting is that these tubers {Not all tubers mind you} that will cry bloody murder about "do not redistribute my tubes with out permisson" I mean they didnt even MAKE the art they just cut it from someone elses work. They dont want someone stealing from them but they think it is ok to steal from others.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/



Commission Closed till 2025



Migal posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 8:59 PM

Obsessive compulsive Tina writes:

"And if someone out there in the tube lists want to continue to copy and paste my name on tubes they have done and then say I did it,"

Yes, Tina. We understand. Everybody wants to be you, even if only through imitation. We can hardly wait for your memoirs.


tasquah posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 9:21 PM

Funny they must be logging into yahoo as her as well as posting in tube groups as her. Yes one day I aspire to be the great tuber legend . I tubed it all big and small. hehe now thats sad.


sarsa posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 9:59 PM

I went in and joined those 2 groups to get more information (links, images, etc) for the formal letter I faxed today to Yahoo with the copyright infringment complaint.....now I have to DE-join however the heck you do that..geez...BUT...when you join those stupid groups..they send you eMails with the tubes..and some of them say..."SNAGGED!, and passing it along!"...they can cry 'oh poor me, I didnt know, I'll stop!" all they want...but I aint buyin it. Their eMails brag about 'snagging'....stealing. Nice. Thanks to .maus and Darkginger for the links for the watermark options...going to look into that now...


tasquah posted Sun, 20 April 2003 at 11:06 PM

go to the home page of the group in the upper right corner it says ( Edit My Membership ] [ Leave Group ] ) chose the later. I chose the do not mail me NADA option or when i had to i have a few mailbox's already set up that delete everything sent to them as spam.


elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 1:46 AM

I sent Yahoo an email with a note that I'd fax them anything they wanted once I'd heard back from them. I don't like to fax stuff unannounced (mostly because for me it's an international call). What I'd really like is to get confirmation from Yahoo of Tina's IP address and then go to her ISP directly. I've done this in the past (mostly with websites, of course). It won't ultimately stop her (she can get a different account), but it will inconvienience her. By the way, I heard from someone else who joined those groups to look around that one of the rules is that you should never put the "real" artist's name in the work, so basically they KNOW they're stealing and doing wrong and violating copyright. They're a little nest of sleazy thieves and THEY KNOW IT. They seem to take pride in stealing. I guess everyone's got to be proud of something they can do. If all you can do is steal, then, well... smirk bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 2:10 AM

Based on information from the headers on her Usenet posts (she seems to post daily and has done for years), her ISP is 1st.net. If you want to complain to her originating ISP, send an email complaint (cite the Digital Millenium Copyright Act) to abuse@1st.net with a Cc to root@1st.net for good measure. Her username there is "enoch". This information, by the way, was super easy to find. The server info is right in the headers of every post she makes. It's pretty much public information. I could probably find out lots more about her if I worked at it a little bit, but I won't bother. Pretty much everything you need to know is right there if you want to go to the source. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


BellaMorte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 2:25 AM

Ok. I have notified four PSP communities forums and have received a "Thanks for the heads up" from two of them. They know to be on the look out now.


Mehndi posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 2:38 AM

If we can identify who this person is on PoserPros who has stolen Bonni's faerie art, I will siteban them for it. Looking into it in the morning.


cooler posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 2:39 AM

Attached Link: http://www.copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/index.html

to speed things along & make sure your DMCA reaches the right person here is the information for 1st.net from the US Copyright Office directory of online service provider designated copyright agents (see link)... 1st.net Legal name: First USA Inc Other legal names: 1st.net, FIRST Internet, First Net Name of Designated Agent: William Alvis III Title: Vice President of Operations Address: P.O. Box 189 Saint Clairsville, Oh. Ph number: 1-740-699-3100 FAX number: 1-740-695-7258 email: talvis@1st.net

elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 3:28 AM

Actually, Mehndi, I realized that the image was a different one than I thought. It could have been from here, and it probably was because of the time frame for posting. I posted a similar image (thus confusing even myself :) ) to Poser Pros sometime later. It's convoluted, I know. :D Thank you for caring, Mehndi. :) Although I can give you at least two of this woman's email addresses if you want to check the database there. ;) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


Puntomaus posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 5:11 AM

Bonni, if you have her email addys maybe give them to Thorne too that he can check if she's over in our Forum as well.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange


elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 8:43 AM

Just got back an email from 1st.net. They say they haven't got any customer with the username 'enoch' and that they have no Tina Gillian as a customer. They said they can't divulge if they had one in the past, but that they don't now. I take this to mean that they DID, but can't say outright. Hmmm. Might have to get after Yahoo even more. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 8:50 AM

tasquah, are you still a member in those groups? Can you get a copy of one of her emails with all the headers? I'm not sure, but that should have her ISP information in it. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


tasquah posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 9:17 AM

woodmouse deleted them and posted this : "It seems here we go again with this BS copyright law stuff, and people who think they know it all, and have appointed themselves advocate of any and all artists...LOL Her post's go through her yahoo acount . Some one else here got direct email from her , they may have it .


elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 9:30 AM

I haven't appointed myself advocate of any and all artists. I've appointed myself advocate of MYSELF! Grrrrrrrrrrr. These people SO completely tick me off. They know they're in the wrong, they know they're ripping us off, but we're pulling BS on them?!?! bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


Puntomaus posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 10:14 AM

I've joinded this group.She claimed not to know Tina. Here is another quote from this great group leader over there: Second of all...... I have not seen any of the poser? art from any member of my group or from anyone named Tina. I do not know this person, and I really can honestly say that I have not seen any "poser art", but then, I tend to stay away from crap and garbage as a rule. [...] Our group is Blackmarked around the net? Phuleeze....ROFL.. GOOD! PERFECT! maybe we will get some more really good members!! Yo, interesting,huh?

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange


elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 10:21 AM

Well, she's obviously aware that she's being watched, and she's being as insulting as she possibly can to the people who are watching her. As for staying away from crap and garbage, well, maybe she shouldn't run a group that brags about how many images they can steal. Talk about crap. I feel like I accidentally stumbled into a nest of snakes. What a bunch of losers. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


Puntomaus posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 10:32 AM

Yep, I did not find any faerie tubes - I did a search but it looks like she has deleted the archive or whatever. This is all making me so sick that I just signed off there and deleted my yahoo account that I just had created. I like to stay away from crap too and this is only giving me headaches. Btw, she wasn't talking about you in that post above (advocate) but to the one that sent her the email about the stolen artwork.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange


dolfijntjes posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 10:40 AM

I did send her a mail about stolen MY artwork but regreds no not one it is MY work and not her


elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 10:46 AM

Oh, I know she wasn't talking about me, specifically. It just pisses me off that anyone who tries to complain about copyright violations and artists' rights, etc. is some sort of bizarre "advocate". It just goes to her state of mind is all. The woman who runs that group is clearly a complete sleaze. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


sarsa posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 11:16 AM

Well...now that the link/graphics have been deleted...Yahoo is going to think I am off my rocker when they read the fax I sent them with all the information....ughhh


elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 11:31 AM

Sarsa, they've got records to see if things have been deleted. They won't think you're crazy. They just won't do anything because the images will be gone and that's actually all you can ask. They could shut it down, but you know they won't do it. They care about copyrights when and if someone complains and no other time (can you tell I've dealt with them before?) Well, I guess I won't bother to fax them that stuff with my signature, then. This whole thing has proved to be very annoying, very off pissing (as my best friend would say), and a big waste of energy. Oh, well. At least I got a good image out of it, and it made a few folks look into watermarking and other such options, and I'm working on another image now that is sort of related, so what the hey. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


sandoppe posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 1:36 PM

I sent an email to customer service at JASC with the links to this and another thread here. I simply asked them to take a look at the threads.....and if they can help in any way it will be appreciated. Not sure how public they will be about it, but if she purchased their product, they will know how to contact her. The problem, of course, is that "Tina Giffifan" is no doubt not her name at all, but they maybe able to get some action from Yahoo privately that we could never get.


Mehndi posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 2:10 PM

I have banned the member named "tina_gillilan@yahoo." from PoserPros. We have banned her for image theft and redistribution through making PSP tubes from our member's artwork.


sandoppe posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 2:23 PM

Here's another possible email address for her that I found on the net. Someone mentioned a username of enoch...this seems to match a search for Tina Gillilan: enoch@frognet.net From some posts on the net, looks like she's been making these mistakes since January 2002 :) Looks like she was into stationery for awhile.


elizabyte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 2:43 PM

FrogNet, Inc 68 North Court St. suite B Athens, OH 45701 US Well, that matches the state where she lives. I'm not familiar enough with Ohio geography to know how close Athens is to St. Clairsville, which was where her previous ISP was located (and I'm too lazy to look it up right now). I don't think she's making mistakes. I think she's deliberately ripping people off and she knows it. It's not like she hasn't been caught at this before. She knows. She just doesn't care. Must be sad to wannabe that badly, eh? ;) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


Migal posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 3:31 PM

Attached Link: http://groups.msn.com/TheBearsDenCoven/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us

I like Woodmouse29's copyright notice at the bottom of the newer MSN version of their club. She's a real copyrights champion, no doubt.

sandoppe posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 3:53 PM

Wants her stuff protected, but not anyone elses....interesting!


Kiera posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 4:55 PM

You guys should make a web page.. seriously. Write something up about why tubing existing artworks without permission is wrong, and offer other avenues for people who love tubes to pursue.. instructions for making your own work to tube, for instance, or links to places where you can tube to your heart's content. There are tons of royalty free sites out there. Maybe even offer some free tubes of the sorts that people like (fairys, etc). The people who tube with abandon won't care, but I bet that some of the tube collectors are clueless about the copyright issues involving tubes and wouldn't mind the education. The idea of tubes is not a bad one.. I use DigArts image hoses for postwork, for instance. Some education is needed. Also, you guys might want to check out the creative commons.. it's a new method for copyrighting your work so that mere mortals can understand it.


DarkElegance posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 5:02 PM

jkweston@microsoft.com that is the copyright guy for msn. write to him with the notice of which art has been stolen on which page and so on and if they do not remove it the comm {group} gets shut down

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/



Commission Closed till 2025



BellaMorte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 5:38 PM

Kiera, these people who tube images already know everything about what you suggest. The 4 main PSP communities around the internet already state these things and all of them have PSP related tutorials so that members can create their own art work. Some of them do go about creating their own but others (and these are the ones who will tube anyones artwork regardless) just cannot be bothered at all. These are the ones that don't care. They know ALL about the copyright issues but are of the opinion that if it is on the internet (A public medium) then it is up for public grabs whether the artists state "please do not use without permission" with their work or not. They do not care until someone takes legal action. The PSP communities distance themselves from these particular people because they do understand the reprecussions of such behaviour.


sandoppe posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 6:30 PM

Quite right BellaMorte. I'm a PsP user and there's tons of information about all the topics you indicate. I appreciate Kiera's efforts to be helpful, but like you say these people don't seem to use what's already available for this purpose. At some point they have to be responsible for their own behavior. If they're going to take on a hobby or start a business on the internet,they should do their homework and not expect others to do it for them. All they had to do in this instance was send an email to the artists in question and ask permission. Not such a hard thing to do really. I'm sure some would have gladly provided it.


Kiera posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 7:34 PM

Yes, but you guys are expending a lot of effort going after one person, when there are dozens more out there doing the exact same thing. I am not saying you should give up, but I think a more ogranized, public approach might help more than just a few people in this forum whose work is being tubed. Just my 2 cents. =)


BellaMorte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 8:53 PM

That is what the PSP communities are about Kiera. Not only are they there for teaching people how to use the program and teach them new techniques to create their own images, but their forums discuss the copyright issues at least once a month. The offenders (as in more than one person) know the right and wrongs of what they are doing; they just chose to ignore those facts in favour of their hobby. All of us can discuss this till the cows come home and go back out again but the fact remains that these offenders are not going to stop what they are doing just because we tell them to. It will only take legal action against them to stop them. I know this because I have seen this whole scenario happen over and over ever since I got involved in the PSP communities back in 1999.


BellaMorte posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 9:01 PM

Kiera, I'm sorry if I sound like a bulldozer, I don't mean to be. This is an old topic for me and have seen the results as listed in my previous comment. Some are nice and will amend their ways, but others just do not care until legal action has been taken.


Kiera posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 9:22 PM

Ah, well.. I don't think you are getting what I am saying. My point is that people who do Poser work as a hobby aren't going to bother going after people for tubing their work once it gets to the point where it would cost money. Who can pay for lawyers? By making such an effort more public, you might get more attention/assistance from people who WILL go after tubers.. Disney, for example. It was just a thought. =) Anyway, I can't load this thread one more time.. the 298320938 images kill my dialup. =p So good luck!


tasquah posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 9:30 PM

sorry about the next post its pretty long but it was posted it the tube group today and has some good stuff in it.


tasquah posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 9:30 PM

After contacting my attorneys (I take no one's word over the actual laws) I have to tell you that it is not copyright BS. Sorry gals/guys but you can not claim "fair/public" use unless you are reviewing or using for educational needs. Just because you give something away for free doesn't prevent you from being liable for the money you are potentially costing the original artist and loss of income/reputation in some cases. The common concept of having "found" a tube on the net does not relinquish your liability one iota. Nor does stating that you will remove copyrighted material upon contact by creator. The law believes that you must "assume" copyright of all images not created or purchased by yourself. Nor does applying a "disclaimer" the sort of which I see on some of these messages remove your liability. There is no review included with any of your distributions and distribution is not part of the fair use act. Only reviewing and using in a classroom styled environment. Claiming that you are distributing for educational purposes only works if educational material is also transmitted and instructions regarding the end users inability to distribute or use in any public manner is fully stated. That means that you may not use items that you want to claim as "fair use" for linkware, stationary or anything else of that manner. The attorney explained to me that none of this falls under "fair use" at all and no court will consider it so. He further suggested that any group of artists affected should pool their resources and sue this and other groups like it thatt hey find distributing their items in a class action An example, let's say you tube an artists work and they offer that piece as a limited edition for sale item - print web design whatever. When you distribute the tube you ultimately make them look like liars and destroy the limited availability of their product and therefore take their sales away from them. As for posting publically - well if there is a copyright infringment matter my attorney tells me it should be posted where all members who may have downloaded the item can see that it is potentially libelous. By removing the member's account you have taken the full reponsibility of any actions against any members upon yourself as you are preventing her from her rights of notification. What does this mean for all of you, well it means that a member here when contacted by a lawyer will say they got the tube from this group. If the copyright holder tried to notify the group and was "silenced" through "unfair" (and my lawyer tells me the action is legally considered unfair) means then ultimately the liability (up to thousands of dollars) falls upon the group owner/moderators and the one who distributed to the group. The original offender (the one who used the tube) may not be found liable at all. In fact the group owner may be found fully responsible for misreprentation of the law and encouragement of unlawful activities and sued for loss of sales and punitive damages. Constantly crying that it isn't so, or fair use will not protect anyone from the law (ignorance is no excuse) or make the reality of it go away. You do yourself and the members of this group a hige disservice when you encourage them to infringe copyrights. Some day you will take the copyrighted image of an artist with the money and the passion to do something about it - sadly most of the tubes inquestin come from those who are trying to make a living doingwhat they love and they can lose much needed income because someone tubed their work and now it's availability is out of their control - frankly that is almost cruel considering the time and energy they spend on their work not to mention that many need the income. So while I say tube to your hearts content - best to make sure you know who's image that is and if you have permission. All my tubes that I distribute are 100% original so there will never be a copyright issue with them. Why not learn/develop a talent of your own other than snipping images? Take photos and snip from them, learn a 3-d program or create your images from brushes? It's not that difficult and you will certainly have a greater sense of accomplishment than getting huffy and acting like a petulant child who was told that matches can burna nd they can't play with them. Now if you want to remove me from your group so be it - but I had hoped to find tubers who were honest and respected the rights/works of others and didn't atttempt to sway people to believe that theft is ok. I was looking for those who take pride in themselves by distributing original work belonging to themselves in the manner that Jasc intended. If this group isn't one of those then it is definitely no loss at all to be removed from your midst. PjPix


tasquah posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 9:55 PM

The moderator Woodmouse had deleted all of Tina's posts and then says " Secondly, this person that they were talking about that was posting these tubes is NOT even a member IN this group! " I would be embarresed to post more of her replys to this here LOL It wasnt pretty . In nut shell she says "THIS IS THE END OF THIS FOOLISHNESS." and the dicussion was over she was tired of people ruining there fun and enjoyment.


sandoppe posted Mon, 21 April 2003 at 11:48 PM

Excellent tasquah! As far as I'm concerned the only "foolishness" is that committed by the tubers in question. You know the approach your attorney suggests, a group lawsuit, is not a bad idea, especially if this continues. It seems there are those who believe that they won't be sued and that's why it continues. For those of us who do this strictly as a hobby that may be true, but I know that a lot of you are trying to make a living from your images. It might be a way for a lot of people of limited means to finally get some justice. I'll bet there will even be a few of us "hobbiests" who would support it because of the principle of the thing. Sears Roebuck lost a lot of money in one of these group suits that was started by just one person on behalf of all Sears card holders who used their cards for a specified period of time. I was one who benefited. If one person can start a suit that beats Sears, I dont't think it would be hard to "set an example" with this group and "Tina the Tuber"! :)


tasquah posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 12:49 AM

Just for the record this was posted there by shama@firstva.com Who tried very hard i might say to enlighten them . Didnt work as far as i could tell . They got slamed hard and fast by the mod and told to shut up or else. The post was great though so i brought it back to share . Maybe we should invite this person here . Shama make "real" legal tubes and is very upfront about copyright issues .


elizabyte posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 3:30 AM

You can't enlighten people who want to remain in darkness. These people know they're doing wrong and just plain don't want to do right. Their "hobby" is ripping off other people's creative hard work and by passing around these mangled versions of someone eles's talent, they feel that they have some sort of talent or ability. They're the most pathetic sort of wannabes. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis


3-DArena posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 10:00 AM

Tasquah - I am PjPix at shama@firstva.com ;-D I joined several tube groups to try to get those who do care to understand that the precedent being set by owners/mods of these groups is wrong. Can't sway the ones that don't care but can certainly shed light on it for those that really don't understand and are going by what the others tell them. I doubt my response to her will be posted but I'll tell you here: here is a snippet: "Since you asked, I am actually quoting the attorney I have on retainer that I asked about this in regards to my own artwork, we have a form "cease & desist" in place for things like this. Good idea though if you are going to run a group and insist on distributing these things to contact your own attorney so that you know the statement is not biased and learn what it would really take to protect yourself - those statements on the bottom of your emails aren't enough - not after you publically acknowledge that you know you are distributing copyrighted material. Maybe if you did that you wouldn't be so defensive but instead would realize that the artists who cry "foul" have rights. It should only take a consultation sitting, just be sure it is a lawyer who handles copyright and trademark issues. One of the rules here is that we aren't supposed to change the file names and such of the tubes that are snagged - why not?? Giving credit to the one who tubed an image is more important than respecting the copyright of the original artist? If you make linkware and I distribute it re-coloured from my site would you mind?? How about if I distribute your tubes without your names? Snowglobes or whatever graphics you use these for - would you mind if I took yours and distributed them without your name on them? Mind you I wouldn't do that - its a rhetorical question. Believe me when I tell you most artists don't appreciate that you find them because of tubes, maybe some do but none of the ones I know are too thrilled - the talks of class action lawsuits by those who have been "tubed" and distributed within one specific group are a clear indication of that dissatisfaction. That is the worst attitude - "please thank me for stealing or distributing what I know is stolen" it gives you more exposure. The amazing thing is I'd bet that you wouldn't dream of walking into a a small gallery or a store and stealing a tangible piece of art, book, greeting card whatever, nor would you encourage your children to do so, most of you seem like very nice people. Why is that amazing to me? Because I personally don't understand how anyone thinks there is a difference. "


3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo


Irish posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 11:16 AM

Hey! I thought that might be you SilverMage!! I saw the last name on a post and said...hmmmm?

I don't think they sent this letter out..I also joined to see what was coming through...clearly lots of Garfields, Disney's, someone's countrystyle graphics, etc...in other words, loads of copyright violations. I got a chuckle out of this message from one of the irrate members:

"Ok, here we go yet again.....
I thought that this was done and over with, apparently you are having problems letting this go.

If a ACTUAL ARTIST contacts me, about any infringement of their art, and ASKS me to remove the images, then YES! I would be more than happy to!!!

YES, that was me passing along some tubes of Garfield, I did not tube them, but I shared them. And until Jim Davis comes and gives me a phone call or a hand written letter asking me NOT to share his art, I will continue to do so.

Just because I share something, does not mean I am FORCING any of this groups members to do the same or advocating such actions, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. If I go and shave my head and take a picture and tube it and share it with everyone, IS everyone else going to do the same thing? I really don't think so.
If I go posting and stating my opinion about this whole thing, and how idiotic this all really is, and how, in MY OWN OPINION that it is just a few people who are just trying to cause trouble, for others who are just having fun... and how these people really have NOTHING better to do with their petty little lives that cause someone else grief... will every other member in this club go and do the same thing???? I really don't think so. The last time I looked we didn't have any sheep in this club, and I am pretty sure that all of the members here CAN and WILL think for themselves. I do not control what another person does or doesn't do... there is the difference.

You know, if it wasn't for some of the tubes that are passed around, I wouldn't know who alot of these artists even were! And it is because of the tubes that I go searching these same artists out on the net, to BUY their art or prints ect.. You would think that most starving artists would LOVE that sort of exposure no?

By the way, can we have a actual CONTACT number for this attorney you are quoting all the time?
You can contact me thru my private e mail with this information if you like. I would like to hear all of this directly from the source. woodmouse22@shaw.ca

I sincerely HOPE this is the end of this."

or this one:

"I don't care what any one says about all of this nonsense with what's going on. I have been with this group for quite awhile and Mouse and Mare are wonderful people as well as great moderators and I feel we are here to have fun and that is what I am here for!! It is sad that there is those few people out there that just always have to try and make it hard on everyone else. If people want to go into copy right laws it is a never ending story and personally I hear enough of this with the music industry as well especially when these people make so much money as it is and personally I feel it goes to show you that money is the root of all evil!! it is always about money, that is pretty sad! well I am here to have fun and I have enjoyed this group so very much and I will continue to still enjoy staying in this group :) Thank you Mouse and Mare for all you do!! I appreciate you!!"

Quite obviously, these people will not change and it will take pulling these groups completely down...and even then, they will continue on mailing lists.

You can even look in Renderosity 2D Free Stuff and you will see copyright infringements or just do a search on the web for Free Tube Sites and you will be shaking your heads in dismay. Hard to stop indeed.

:)
Irene


Kendra posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 11:30 AM

I joined about 9 of them last night. In this group:
TranquilTubesAndGraphics
I found an image from Renderosity by Bubba, posted by someone with the yahoo handle of "webwalking1". I IM'd Bubba but I don't know if he's active much anymore so if anyone knows him maybe flip him an email?

You know what is needed is simply for several to join and just police the groups. Some do know what they are doing is wrong but I'm willing to bet a lot really don't realize. If several of us can patrol the groups and inform the artists of the violations we can hit the individuals and perhaps spread a bit of education. The website, www.rightsforartists.com, has sample letters you can copy word for word to send to violators.

...... Kendra


3-DArena posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 11:52 AM

Attached Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/originaltubes/

LOL Irene I got a kick out of the woman who claims to work for licensing companies and admits she still does it!! Just to make a point that not all tubers are or need to infringe I have opened "Original Tubes" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/originaltubes/ They act as if they have no option but to distribute copyright material or there would be nothing left.


3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo


sandoppe posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 12:01 PM

LadySilverMadge, since Woodhouse ("woodchuck", "peckerwood","woodenhead"...whatever her "handle" is)wants the name of your lawyer, maybe you should have him/her send her an email! I'd be willing to help you pay the cost just to see her reaction :) Please share your new group with the Rendo PsP tube folks if you haven't already. I don't tube, but do use them periodically. I may sign up for your group just to stay on top of which places provide "legit" tubes.


3-DArena posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 12:17 PM

Not a bad idea, but she already knows she is wrong that's why she is so defensive. But if I ever catch any of my work in her group - she'll get as much legal tape as I can drop on her thick skull! Because I won't just go after the tuber I'll go after her for encouraging the distribtuionof copyrighted material within a group she owns.


3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo


sandoppe posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 12:24 PM

Just went through the obnoxious Yahoo routine and signed up for your group :) Hopefully you will accomodate someone who is not a "tube makeer", but a "tube user" :) Who knows.....maybe I will learn enough to be able to start making my own tubes! Having said that, here's another question: If I create and image using victoria and maybe clothing made by another vendor, can I turn that image into a tube for distribution? I raise this question, as I've not seen it addressed specifically.


3-DArena posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 12:44 PM

Actually it was addressed here awhile back.. The image that you render is your own - period. Just be sure to use items (if free) that are available for commercial use if you use it as a tube so the end user can use it commercially. I have offered tubes of Koshini, the tonnimal kitty and such.


3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo


3-DArena posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 12:52 PM

Oh BTW - to the comment about one's inability to receive monetary justcie if your copyright isn't registered. You can however get a cease & desist order and then file contempt of court charges if they continue you can also request court fees. You may not receive compensation yourself but they could be fined for violating a court order EG


3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo


sandoppe posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 1:07 PM

I guess the readme files that come with commercial and free products should tell you if they can be used by you to create something that can be used for commercial ventures. Frankly I'm a long way from that....a long way from even making free tubes! I just got Poser after Christmas and still learning how to use it period :) Time will tell if I can ever turn it into more than a hobby. Thanks for the info.


3-DArena posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 3:21 PM

Tje owner responded to me privately wanting her lawyer to contact mine.. Uhmmmmm I don't think she has one and I am certainly not paying for my lawyer to explain copyrights to her not when he charges hourly and it could take all day HAH. But I did tell her if she'd like to pay for his time herself up front I'd happily share the information. Lastly she commented that basically my tubes were crap that had floaties and jaggies where they had been cut out of the images. lol They were never a part of an image, they were rendered in Poser exported in tiff format with the mask applied for transparency and then copied as a new trans file and exported as tubes. They come out very clean that way. Very sad really...


3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo


Irish posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 3:50 PM

Just out of curiousity, I did a search for all the tube groups at Yahoo and came up with a whopping 693. Some contain only 5 or 6 members but there are a number of big ones - the highest membership had 2,391 members. This is what you up against...then there are the mailing lists. There were even a few groups at Yahoo where you could only be 'invited' to join...wonder what they're passing around. :) Irene


dolfijntjes posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 4:58 PM

When I started with PSP I diddn't know what was wrong or not. I used the tubes that are forbidden, was a member of that kind of groups. But not any more I found out what I could and couldn't do and now I'm a member of a payed site for tubes. I did use the wrong tubes but here in the Netherlands toy can get them at learning sites. When I started I went to a learning site for PSP beginners and thought it was alright they know what to do but now I realise it isn't alright. Where I live you never hear things about violation of copyright. And now that my own art is stolen I know what it feels like. I diddn't tube for about a year now lost my interest when I found out how they got the tubes. I'm not a member anymore on any PSP club but now I applied to the group from Silvermarge I love PSP but not in the wrong way


sandoppe posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 5:23 PM

I think I posted this yesterday....if not here, at the other thread. I sent an email to JASC....they make PSP and told them about this thread. I doubt they will comment publicly, but it wouldn't hurt for them to hear from a few more people. The reason being is that their software is being used for what amounts to illegal purposes. I find it implausible that they would approve. LadySilverMadge: I've seen your tubes....there are no "jaggies"...but then you know that!:) Creating a tube from an image rendered in Poser would be very easy indeed. I know a jaggie when I see it. I do on-line plays with another person. We use real cats as the actors! The cats have to be "cut out" of their photos in order to be costumed. If you want to see "jaggies" you should see some of the photos we get from people who don't know how to properly cut out the background! :) Actually I think you should put your attorney in contact with hers and then send her the bill! :)


tasquah posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 8:25 PM

"Lastly she commented that basically my tubes were crap that had floaties and jaggies " ROLF thats to gosh darn funny. When all else fails go for the throat. The ultimite tuber insult. Problum is it only works for people who only experience with Psp is the magic wand and eraser tool.


bclaytonphoto posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 9:32 PM

Great thread...The exact same thing goes on with Incredimail stationary groups.. I joined a bunch of em (or tried to) to look for stolen art.. Several times I was refused membership (how dare they?!!) or thrown out for pointing out stolen works on these groups.. There is no easy answer for this..

www.bclaytonphoto.com

bclaytonphoto on Facebook


sandoppe posted Tue, 22 April 2003 at 10:00 PM

pushinfaders: Can you provide some links to stationery sites you know to be a "problem"? Don't want to put you on the spot, but it would be good to know. I rarely use stationery since getting XP....just got tired of it I guess....but when I do, I generally use Cloud 8 (not to be confused with Cloud 9, which is also a stationery site). I think their stuff is created by promoting a wide variety of artists who do original work. Would be interested in your observations.


Kendra posted Wed, 23 April 2003 at 1:28 AM

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/all_sophisticated_graphics/

I've already IM'd two people who's images I've found. If you post poser renders you might want to watch this one. I plan to post quickie bryce images to stay in. ;)

...... Kendra


CandeeKis posted Thu, 24 April 2003 at 12:00 AM

Well all I can say, is that this kind of stuff just makes me SICK. The GALL of some people ~

You know....I did this a long time back, and going on memory, I think the steps were this:

I created a transparent gif (similar to making an imagespacer or clear gif that we sometimes use in webpage layouts to format how the page layout goes) I created it the same size as the actual image ~ then what I did is when I put it on the webpage, I made the actual image itself a "background" to a table and made the image the clear gif ~ so when they downloaded the image all they got was the clear gif! Then I encrypted the page so they couldnt find the name of the table background, and then added a dummy index.html in the directory. That pretty much stopped the stealing ~ excepting that they could do a "print screen" and paste it into PSP or Photoshop and then whack out the image that way. But of course this only works with images that you put on your site....and on a webpage....and doesnt stop people from copying from places like here or Poser Pro's etc. It really seems like such an uphill battle. There are literally thousands of people out there that have this distored view of what is acceptable when it comes to "using" (aka stealing) artwork from others and using it...and even worse, calling it their own. Its almost overwhelming to think that you can change the way the masses of people think. I recently had someone write to me about something or another (I cant recall at the moment what it was about, but it was some sort of inquiry about a tut or something like that - and during our email correspondence, they made this statement to me - jokingly of course but he meant every word of it I could tell - and his statement was this ~ "If its not nailed down its for the taking" ~ I never bothered to respond to him after that point. I'm sorry to all of you that have been effected by this...probably many more of us than we realize...I HATE these stupid Tubing Groups ~ they are mostly a bunch of wannabe artists that like to play like they can BE artistic ~ and their results are usually so icky and horrible, and they steal and ruin GOOD artwork in the process and dont give a %$#% who's toes they step on. Sickening.......DOWNRIGHT sickening!