I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth - I appreciate and commend everyone everywhere who contributes to the freestuff available for Poser.

But this morning, while installing various files gleaned from the freestuff at large, certain things really grated on my nerves:

No .RSRs for the Pose library - I and many others are still hardcore P4 users. I spent well over half an hour converting 30+ pngs to pcts then using the RSRconverter. I am thankful for the pngs for being available to be able to do that tho. Not the first time I've had to do this.... But there are plenty of ppl who are unaware of the availibility of the RSRconverter and how to use it for rsr generation - they may simply decide not to use the files.
Files that are simply the pz3 and textures - yet w/no info/readme as to where the textures are to be accurately placed so they can be properly referenced when the pz3 is opened.
Missing files - in the MAT folder to apply different eye textures, I noticed there was no MATpose file for a particular eye color I knew was in the accompanying texture folder. So, I modified one of the other pz2 files to reference that specific texture & saved appropriately. It's not heart surgery, but once again, someone less familiar w/how a pz2 is constructed would either never have known or not been able to fix it.

No, I am not going to point out whose freebies I am referring to. I'm throwing this out there for those of us who offer up freebies to please, please take into consideration.

Let the stoning commence....

Peace -
Lucy_Fur

throws a stone in furbys general direction :-P

Well... I can see where its annoying, but, I make ALL My freebies for Poser & ProPack. The main reason is.... ALL of My beta-testers have Poser 4 :o) Thomas

errr.... & not ProPack...... oooops

sets up a stand and starts selling stones *

"Increased throwing range, 50% more impact!"

I include both .rsr and .png thumbnails in my Free Stuff items as a matter of convenience for others, even though it increases the .zip file's size by some miniscule amount and I only need to provide the .rsr (which Pro Pack and P5 can use).

My biggest irritation is "vanity" directories and filenames consisting of a person's name. The piss-off factor is magnified a dozen times when the person puts the geometry files in the library folder, meaning changing the name of the folder involves modifying Poser files with a text editor to point to the new location of the geometry. It's reached the point where if I see a vanity folder, I just delete the whole damned thing.

hmmm all very good points Oh She Who Is Blessed With Fur and i agree with them totally but my biggest bane is dead links... after scratching and digging for ages through the huge archives and finally finding that lil item you've always wanted but to lazy to make yourself... you find the link has kicked the bucket..... has snuffed it... is pushing daisy... sleeping with the fish's... has installed WinME... in other words.. is dead :) (The complete fool is half prophet)

PNGs instead of RSRs. Senosoft's free P3DOExplorer will convert all of the PNGs in a directory to RSRs with a click or two of the mouse. Very nice. *PZ3 and textures. You can put the textures in the same directory as the PZ3, and it'll find them when you open it. *"vanity" directories: Well, where do you want it? Everyone organizes their directories different; to the best of my knowledge, there really isn't a consist directory to use for freebies. Thus, the artist's name is convenient, so the user can find it and move it where they want it. Geometry in the library folder is Poser Pro-pack's fault. It saves them like that.

Thank you for the info, FyreSpiryt :)

I do & don't have a beef w/vanity directories: It helps when it comes to compiling credit references, but my Poser folder is nigh to full and I'm having to combine folders in order to make/maintain space. Would be nice if P4 could be modified to increase the number of files allowed within a library.

It's been suggested to me G to create another directory (library? Like Runtime/Libraries/Poses2?) & use P3DOexplorer to search for the pose I need. :)

Well, I have all my Vicky3 clothes in one folder, all Mike clothes in another, Koshini in a third, and so on. When I install a new item, I move it to the applicable folder. It makes things easier for me to find.

one word: pbooost

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"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

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OK, how about clothing textures Never mind that the texture names seldom refer to the figure in their name, how about the readme not even making explicit the clothing item it is for. Often, the only direction is in the text under the thumbnail - sometimes on the thumbnail. After years of doing this, I think the way to go is to group clothing textures by clothing item, not author of the texture. Nesting in P5 makes this even more appealing. It does play chaos with MATposes, but few of them do more than merely assign a texture. When and if thre are MATposes that do wonderful things with the nodes and options in P5, then those MATposes would be worth salvaging. But, how many MATposes even make explicit what they are for? The names of textures should include a geometry reference. Clothing items should have a three or four letter unique abbreviation for the texture linkages.

My beef is figure and mat poses of different names- it's a ton easier to have both the same name, so much easier to find what you need- or even if there are mat poses for it. And drop the darn MAT leader- if it's in the pose libary you KNOW it's not a figure!! Duh.

Open up the pz3 or cr2 files using a text editor. They will all have references to the textures or geometries in the form of Runtime:Textures:blahblah or Runtime:Geometries:etcetc from there on, just a matter of recreating. For me i'm crazy enough to re-arrange my whole texture folder and re-edit all the MAT Pose files to my new structure. Also to avoid confusion what I do is maintain the same strucure as the Libraries folder. So the textures for librariescharactersMichaelMassive mike for example would be inside texturescharactersMichaelMassive Mike Avoids confusion. Would be interested in hearing other views..

Sometimes people make "free stuff" because they want to give back to the community. Sometimes these generous people don't actually understand all the nuances of the file structure and how to make them install seamlessly. For someone who understands it, it is simple. For a newbie, it is a nightmare and I do speak from experience. I was lucky that someone actually took the time to send me a screen shot of the naming conventions and all the file making utilities available. Maybe we should have a "preferred spec sheet" available for people making this art available to us in the free section. A list with things like "file maker and P3DOExplorer, how to set up a "runtime" folder. Even how to prepare a zip file. It was the screen shot of that stuff that helped me through the confusion. If you find someone who doesn't understand it you could graciously send them the link with the spec sheet.

Hmmm, okay, now that I know what pisses everyone off... Is there some sort of "tutorial" that teaches people what is the best way to "package" freestuff for ease of use? I am thinking of putting out some free stuff, textures and such, and I want to avoid "pissing anyone off", so, what's the best way to package everything to make everyone (or most everyone) happy?

Can I raise another small complaint? Just a small one. If your freebie is dependent on half a dozen things from other places, make sure the items are still available. It gets real frustrating on the odd occasion when you see a really dynamite piece of work, only to find out that the boots it requires comes from a website that no longer exists.

Many of the things noted above are annoying, but we should not lose sight of the fact people have spent time and effort making this stuff, and been good enough to offer it for free. One way to avoid the frustrations inherent in using free stuff is don't use it, make your own props textures and figures ;) No one is forcing any one to use their imperfect free gifts. This is not meant as a shot at any of you, just a statement of fact.

open horse's mouth... checking... shame of you...

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"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

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crap- all of these ---annoyances ---equally apply to marketplace stuff. free stuff has gone from 12 to 36 a day to maby on a good day 6. It's the policy- not the makers- most ppl are just not going to post when it's almost as much hassle as marketplace stuff. when I post something it may only be for a day or two cause of bandwidth hits. so in fast- out fast. but not with the current policy- makes it to hard to monitor my bandwidth usage

lululee - you are right - there should be something available for ppl who are going to upload a freebie so they know what conventions to follow. In looking at the Free Stuff upload area - there is nothing like that available and I think it would be a boon to the community in general to have it.

Cyhiraeth - the 'piss people off' factor doesn't apply to everyone. Some find it merely a matter of taking time to make the adjustments (either conventional or personal modifications) in assuring that an item will work with an 'out of the box' effect. Others, due to lack of familiarity w/Poser files will dub the item unusable for themselves. Then there those folk who fall somewhere in the middle. :) I'm going to suggest to the PTB to have a tutoral on the upload page of Free Stuff - or two or three - presenting how to set up a free item. I seem to remember somewhere in the Free Stuff there being a file/tutoral/spec sheet that provides just that. But eventually, something like that gets buried & not easily found. :(

JoeyAristophanes - I sympathize with what you're saying, but unless the creators of the various items have a collaboration/availability agreement of some kind, it seems unlikely that what you wish for will become the norm.

lesbentley - I have never lost sight of realizing the time and effort people place into their free items. I only have two free items up myself - but I did them on a learning curve & they took time. I should probably take my own advice and re-package them. G I have a hard enough time fuddling around in Poser - I can't imagine trying to learn more software so I can make my own textures & models. ;) I am damned impressed with those who can and thankful that they offer up their wares for free.

Overall - I was just venting - I don't normally, but I was dealing w/more than one and two of these things within the same day. ;)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12375&Form.ShowMessage=1245192

I've posted a request in the Community Improvement Ideas forum if you'd like to yay or naysay it.

"Is there some sort of "tutorial" that teaches people what is the best way to "package" freestuff for ease of use? I am thinking of putting out some free stuff, textures and such, and I want to avoid "pissing anyone off", so, what's the best way to package everything to make everyone (or most everyone) happy? "

There really isn't. Short of making sure your zip paths start with "runtime" and not using "!" to put your files at the top of the list, anything you do will have someone wishing you'd done it differently.

This isn't to belittle anyones comlaints but it really isn't feasible to make everyone structure their files (freebies or marketplace items) in a way that only refers to the object. What reference is there to use? Daz?
"Vanity" folders take care of generic file names overwriting other generic file names. It makes looking something up based on who it came from much easier. Personally, I put textures in a folder with my name and a sub-folder that refers to the clothing item it was created for. I also start my Mat files with "MAT_...". It just makes sense to separate a mat file from a pose file. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but all readmes state where everything is and what they refer to.

I seem to recall not too long ago one of the main complaints was generic files and not knowing whom they belonged to.

...... Kendra

How can you complain when you got it free!!!! When you pay for an object and have these problems, then you have a right to complain.

I give you the plague for free- how can you complain

Kendra - I'm not speaking of a forced file structure - but guidelines. A showing/explanation of file hierarchy. Conventions, not laws.

I've gotten to the point where I'm separating out my files according to figure (V1,V2,V3,Vlo,etc), clothing & accompanying MAT (and if needed, their MOR) files, poses, etc. Doing my damndest to stay within Poser's confines & not have to rely on 3rd party programs - highly effective and recommended they may be.

Some readmes just say 'thank you - free for personal use, not commercial' or something short & similar. Some are very comprehensive, but as far as file allocation goes, I may not follow its setup for whatever personal reason or stricture. Like I said before & agree w/u - vanity names help when it comes to compiling the credits but having AB's texture and YZ's texture for the same dress start w/MAT_ will still put them apart from each other. I put all MAT poses for a specific piece of clothing in the same folder labelled with MAT_clothingname. I'm stuck having to remember, if I can, who made what texture, but I can live with that.

There is no way there's only one, easy way for this to go. But there is a way to offer a helping hand - by way of an explanatory tutorial.

Life is full of annoyances like the tamper-proof plastic packaging that requires a chainsaw to open. And this is on stuff that you PAID for. I know these freestuff foibles are annoying but most of them are a matter of a few minutes to fix and in the grand scheme of things, I'd say give it a chuckle, fix it or don't use it. It's only Poser, not war, famine, pestilence or death. If it bugs you, offer to repackage it for the person - problem solved and they get a working example to use in the future. Of course when someone inevitable complains about the way you did it...

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Maybe they should require a better readme for freebies then just the "Thank you, drive through". I think the MP has a great idea about what to include in the readme file, maybe the freestuff could do that as well. Makes life alot easier for everyone I think. Even though you get things for free, they shouldn't be shoddily put together period.

shakes head sadly at davidgibson

You don't get it, do you?

Personally - if/when I offer up something for free, I want it to be easily used. I want my file placement to be exacting - not everyone who gets it is gonna know the Poser default file placements. So I include the hierarchy folders, etc. Not everyone uses the Pro Pack or P5, so I include rsrs. If I do it wrong or make a mistake or could have made it better, I'm gonna feel compelled to understand better and not do the same thing next time. It doesn't matter to ME that I gave it away free. But I know that there are those who don't care & it becomes obvious after a while who they are and I cease to want anything from them, free or not.

And if said person is of the mind to become a merchant - it behooves them to begin on the right foot, too, wouldn't you agree? Don't want a bad first impression...

lmckenzie - gimme a break - I'm not the Free Stuff nazi. As I said - twice - today was just day where multiple instances of things I usually deal with and get over were knocking back my timeclock so I came in to rant/vent - and it appears I'm not the only one stuff like this bothers, just the first today to post about it - thank you for singling me out. I have repackaged things for ppl - even helped out with MP items as well, so it's not like I don't know where you're coming from. But with only so much time in the day, I think it's time for me to take a break and go make some cookies. :)

The word that alarms me is "require" (sorry, Briggie, don't mean to single you out). IMHO, you can't "require" anything from a freebie beyond it being reasonably safe (not a virus) and what it says it is (not a texture and an ad masquerading as a 10-piece wardrobe). Sorry, but we don't get a vote in HOW something is offered, only in if we use it or not. "Suggestion" and "convention" are different, however. I would like... Well, frankly, I would like to know what the heck people want. Texture names that are too short get too generic, ones that are too long hose up Macs. Some people want folders with the artist's name, some want by the related item, some by the character the related item is for. Some like MATs in the camera directory, some in poses. Some people like the folders to start with ! so that it moves to the top of the list and they can find it easily and move it where they want it. Some people think doing so is the work of the anti-Christ. Me, if it unzips into my runtime, I can tell what it's for, and the names are distinctive enough that Poser doesn't grab the wrong texture, I'm one happy Fyre-chan. We just can't please everybody. If we want to get closer, we can try to set up some broad guidelines in tutorial form and put it in the tutorial section, but that's about it. Sometimes you can change the world, and sometimes it's just better to change yourself. (I.E. if you don't like where something is, move it! If you don't like what something's named, change it! Gee willikers, do something to make things better than just bitch and moan.) Yow, alternate personality slipped out there. Thank you, Spitfire. (No prob.)

I have a tutorial on packaging things up, and I have one on where Poser files are usually found. If people want to put together a comprehensive "Wish List" for making free stuff easier to use, I'll be glad to put a tutorial together on it. How's that?

lol....go Lucy go Lucy go...hehe....just a little chant there...;-) I agree whole-heartedly about making things easier to install for people, free or not. The ammount of frustration I've had with freestuff ain't funny - especially when you count the ammount of freestuff I've downloaded. Fortuantely I'm one of those fortunate individuals who understands the Poser file structure in a greater degree than the average user...I HAD to learn it and fast as I started on Poser 3 when most other designers here were on P4...that meant being able to do work arounds for some items (some successful and some not) and that isn't easy and requires a lot of knowledge of the differant ways to get a file to function. I think those who called you a "Nazi" are afraid of control, advice and order....the alternative is Chaos and I'm not a great fan of that - it causes severe problems in the long run..:-S I don't see a problem with a more structured Freebie format with guidlines, however...I also think there should be more done to get Poser users more informed about things....there needs to be more tutorials and help suppliments around that explain in step-by-step proceedures what to do with various things and what the options are...to be blunt - there isn't enough help out there for the newbie Poser user.

How can you complain when you got it free!!!! I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think it's asking too much for the contributor is check his sources before putting something up. If it requires such and such an outfit, why is it so difficult to take a few minutes and make sure that outfit is still around and where it can be found? Otherwise, the contribution is useless, so what's the point? Yeah, it's great that people put things up for free; I'm not complaining about that. But it just seems a little silly to invest the time in creating something, packing it up, then giving up the bandwidth you know you're gonna lose when the downloads start if part of your freebie is dependent on a web site that's disappeared into the ether.

It is free. It has just saved you hours if not weeks of work to make yourself (if you are even capable of making it) and yet you people still find some niggly little thing to complain about? And it is different in each instance? I especially love the complaint about making sure that the item is "current". :snort: Just because it is older doesn't mean that people don't want to use it anymore. (An example is SergeMarck's fine dresses... why should a free-stuff provider be prohibited from offering a texture because a newbie who acquired Poser last month can't get the dress without asking him?) And I'm using the word "prohibit" deliberately, because that is what rules do. The same people who are arguing against the protection of laws elsewhere are in this thread wanting regulations. sheesh! I feel fortunate if it opens and there is a file inside (I hate empty and/or corrupted zips). If someone has put their entire weekend into making a texture, surely I can spend 5 minutes to rename it according to my preferred conventions and move it to where I can find it again. If it is a model of a castle or a countryside, I'm not going to yelp if it unzips to a file called "runtime" or "peteyb!rd" or even "prop01"... I wouldn't have downloaded it if I didn't want it, so spending a minute to rename it subject-format-artist seems trivial. I used to keep textures for skin and clothing in completely separate directories, I used to keep morphs separate from characters. I used to keep poses separate, too, because many of them can cross the boundaries of species. I'm not going to expect a free-stuff provider to follow my whim in any particular year... despite that fact that I was a reference librarian for 4 years in 2 different library systems and could lay claim to some expertise in organization. We didn't even have MAT files a couple of years back, who knows what will happen next year? Or where any of us will want it placed? Meanwhile, for any providers of free-stuff... I'll gladly take what you have given... and convert, joliet, rename, whatever. My efforts are minor indeed to what you offer so freely and so generously. Carolly

I agree with Carolly. I'm simply to grateful to care if there's a "little bug". Most can be fixed. The .rsr vs ping thing doesn't matter to me as I use P5. If P5 does nothing else right, it seems to be able to handle this either way. Naming files is a no win situation. Everyone does their poser file set up differently. Frankly, I rename or relocte most of the folders of stuff I buy! Mat files are nice, but it is just as easy to load an image map in the material room. I can't get too bugged about anything that's free I guess. Now...if I buy it and something is broke.....well now that's a different story! :)

The only beef I have with some free stuff is with the frellin' idiots that don't include all the text maps, it's a real pain in the dorsal fin when you come across a prop that looks interesting enough to get so after you install it poser says it can't find 'metal7.jpg' and you don't have that text ANYWHERE on your system. So you try to find some thing that looks like 'metal7' all the time griping about idiots that assume you have the missing texture instead of including it in the file.

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

Jeeze, if someone hollered Nazi, it wasn't me. I always use fascist to cover everyone. Take a deep breath and unlax. Some folks obviously have a lower frustration threshold, which is fine. I personally just don't see it as that big a deal. This is another one of those recurring gripes and the same suggestions are always made, naming conventions, structures, etc. - all good ideas. Try getting people who are submitting stuff to all adhere to them though - not gonna happen unless it's made a requirement for posting which will cause at least some people to say screw it and not post or go elsewhere. Is it really worth that? You gotta make it, find a place to host it and oh by the way, please fill out these forms in triplicate and wait for us to get back to you.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Well, I don't think there's anything we can actually DO about it. Free is free. Well, depends on whether commercial use is allowed with renders or not. If not I don't consider it 'free'. The only thing that is a major problem though is generically named textures. Doesn't matter what folder they're in because Poser and CR will use the FIRST texture found with that name, ignoring the folders, if something is wrong with the name or path. But the frustration with installing DOES exist and needs to be vented once in a while. Currently I spend about 3 hours a DAY installing stuff both free and purchased and I really think it should be easier.

Folks, I have had to deal with all kinds of freestuff oddities. At the same time, I have two freestuff items available that for the life of me, I can't figure out how to fix. The unicorn horns are huge, the cup has a separate handle that I can't weld for all the tea in China. So, maybe the way to solve this is to post some tuts on how to make poser ready models! I now I'd read those. Oh, and for those of you who think the pro stuff is any better, well, mostly it is but I have some DAZ stuff I just bought two days ago that loads to the last used save directory (not the poser directory). And some stuff that has mats which, when clicked on in the library, call up a .bum file when there's a .jpg of the same name installed and no .bum of that name installed. I must have a couple dozen or so mat files that need to be hacked and redone. Ya'd think that in the year 2003 DAZ would get that right.

i am probably guilty of this,i just posted 2 items in freestuff and i spent hours setting them up in what i thought was the correct way,i had the zip set up to extract everything to the runtimelibraries folders etc,unzipped them into poser 5(which is the only version i have) and tested them to make sure they all worked,spent who knows how many hours setting up the .png files,by rendering images from the tests so i knew they definately worked,also naming them so that the MAT pose could be identified to a specific item ,IE kweargownsnake,i then typed a readme file explaining where to unzip them,what folder they would be in inside poser,what they were for and in the case of my V3 MAT files,how to apply them,but i also enclosed my e-mail addy so that if anyone had any problems they could mail me and also provide any feedback or comments,but out of the 300 or so people that have downloaded the items,not one has contacted me,so if we do something wrong,like forget to create a .rsr,which as a newbie to poser i knew nothing about,then how do we know????? ,heck,i've downloaded umpteen textures etc that don't even come with a MAT pose file,but i don't worry about it,they were free,i can use them,or not use them,simple as that

Oh my. Just when I thought it was safe to turn off my modem you had to post this. Went and grabbed the stuff for Koshini. It's great! Thanks.

Lucy_Fur, you have the right idea, IMHO - start the ball rolling with some SUGGESTED guidelines. Leaves all critics free to post improvements, not rants. And don't get me wrong - I honestly believe that progress is based on those who are never satisfied ;o) SUGGESTED visual tute of how to build a package is posted on Lucy's thread : http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12375&Form.ShowMessage=1245192

Well, I'm gratefull, I always like new toys to play with, the more the merrier I say, if you can't work out where stuff goes, ask Dr Geep for his handy gif file. No rsr, load it and save it back, how hard is that? later jb

Amen sister Carolly! lol

Okay, at the risk of being the baddie here... Just because something's for free doesn't mean it's good. Yeah, in the main, we have some amazingly talented folk out there giving away things that are far superior to stuff in the MP, and I'm really grateful for that. But if they're offering something that has a problem, we're doing them a disservice to just smile and say thank you and let them think everything's just fine. Look at the example from just a couple of months ago, when a guy had a site up that had a prop shelf available. The link didn't lead to the prop in question but a web page from his site server asking you to join. The poor schmuck got seriously whacked in the forum here -- and maybe a little too hard, but it was something that needed to be said. It got fixed, and now he doesn't make that kind of error anymore, which is a good thing, right? Well, if we can complain about that kind of mistake, I don't understand why it's not okay to complain when a MAT file is improperly set up or one of the requred objects comes from a web site that's disappeared and whose member can't be found anymore. Yeah, it can be done nicely so no one gets offended, and ultimately it helps the contributor learn a little more about what's involved in doing this properly. >>An example is SergeMarck's fine dresses... why should a free-stuff provider be prohibited from offering a texture because a newbie who acquired Poser last month can't get the dress without asking him? Sounds nice in concept, Carolly, but look at it from Serge's side. Someone uploads a dress texture for something like the 1900 Day Dress that Serge no longer has available. Look at the number of downloads things get in freestuff and tell me Serge is gonna want to deal with 500 individual email requests for that dress. It's just something worth considering when you put something up like that.

The only beef I have with freestuff isn't weird structures or anything like that. I can move it on my own just fine. And I do, since I'm using P5, and am nesting quite a bit to keep things separate. What bothers me is naming the readme readme.txt. At least that file should be named to what the product is. I've lost a lot of readme's due to this, and be lazy not to extract it separately and rename it.

I must argue with your last point, Joey. If 1000 people downloaded the texture, I imagine 800 will already have it. Should they be penalized because of the other 20%? Wouldn't it be better to clearly state what it's for so that those who can use it can have it?

I think the important thing is to keep things in proportion. I'd be perfectly happy (heck, I'd probably be thrilled) if someone e-mailed me and said "I like your XYZ set, but I thought you might want to know that it's calling for ABC texture that isn't included." However, if I have to jump through hoops, particularly ones that change constantly (are !s good or bad this month?), forget it. (And "Hey you stupid >bleep<, you didn't include ABC your stupid- set. What kind of moron are you?" will just get your license pulled.) I'll put it on my website or a different board, and if you don't find it, tough.

Quite simply, the harder it becomes to give things away, the fewer people who are going to do it. And you're not going to just be losing the bottom; it's going to come across all quality levels, especially the more detailed the requirements become. Are you willing to lose characters that come in PZ3 format so that everything will come in library files? OK, that's fine. Are you willing to lose Bob's diamond set for the V3 fantasy dress because you don't want to deal with folders named "Bob" and files named "MAT_Diamond" (fictional case)? That's fine too, if you're willing to accept the consequences. You don't get to later whine that the character you want and Bob's diamond set are no longer available. You chose to give those up for your convenience.

Personally, I think the key is polite complaints and suggestions rather than beratements and demands. We all want to feel pride in our work and want to do the best job we can without driving ourselves nuts, and most people will go through a little extra effort to please if we know what the audience wants. But it's not fair to expect us to jump through ever-changing hoops for nothing in return.

Am I making sense? I'm afraid I may just be rambling. My point is, suggestions good; requirements not good. Politeness good; beratement not good.

Imagine, Renderosity letting just about anything into their marketplace and having strict quality control on freebies. Wouldn't that just be the cookies?

I think the key is polite complaints and suggestions rather than beratements and demands I agree totally. I guess it all comes down to good manners on all sides. If you make a texture for something that isn't available anymore, you ask the original supplier if he might consider putting it back up again for a while (or letting you put it up on your site). If there's a problem, you gently point out that there's a mistake in the links or the way the files are set up. It's all just good manners, right?

a problem with vanity folders... I don't get it. I put everything I distribute (public and privately) in a 'vanity' folder... because I want people to remember WHERE it came from! My readme has a similar 'vanity folder' so you can find out where it came from, too... g its easier for me to find my stuff in a folder that's set aside for my stuff only, and I dare say its probably easier for someone else to find my stuff that way, too ... g I do the rest of it, make rsr and png, make a directory structure in my zips for easier installation, etc... I even go to the extent of translating my directory structure to English so the majority can use it easily (my ProPack version is in German, I always have to install free and marketplace stuff manually to the right library folders) I can't say I do everything right for Poser 4 as I haven't got it (I'm an experienced propack and now a fledgeling P5 user) but I do my best...

How dare any of you complain about free stuff. You should be bowing down to the person who made the item and kissing his feet that he was so generous to make the item available for free. You're not worthy to even use the free stuff if you're going to complain about it. The person put a lot of hard work into the item and is graciously posting it to a website that is probably costing him money and you people complain about it? Oh, there's no rsr file. Whah! There's no MAT file. Whah! The read me file isn't long enough! Whah! The guy made a zip file and I only have WinRAR. Whah! For pete's sake, you'd think the hosting site had pop-up ads or asked you to install spyware!

Judging by the recent posts I'd say a lot of you have trouble READING....lol. What is the point of offering a freebie that depends on another product if the product it depends on is no longer around? Those that laughed at that are exremely immature and would make very poor merchants. If, for example, you do a texture for JoeBloggs Super Sexy Babe and the Super Sexy Babe character gets pulled then your texture DOES get rendered useless unless you spend the extra time and effort to contact the person and ask permission to host it with your texture...I don't think that is unreasonable, I think it's common sense. And incidently every reputable 3D site I've been to does pull posted items if they are considered to have broken links in any way or form....so saying you'll go somewhere else is pointless as that somewhere else will just do the same thing when someone complains about the broken link you didn't bother to fix...lol. Most Freebies are to display potential products by someone who may be considering to be a merchant and make some money....it is VERY BAD CUSTOMER RELATIONS to say you can not be arsed to fix a problem because you are sick of the public whining - if all the major companies out there did that then they wouldn't have got where they are today. Public relations/customer service is paramount to any product Free or otherwise and getting on a high horse over your product will just drive people away, if that's what you want why bother in the first place?...lol.

sure... but I was wondering about 'vanity folders' I mean, every merchant I buy from has folders for their items, usually their name or the name of their company, then the name of the item, in the right Poser directories, of course. Its not anything weird or strange to put your free items in a named folder that's reserved for just your free items... I keep my free props consolidated in the same folder so people can find them easily. (hey, so I can find them easily... too! and keep them separate from all the other stuff that's not mine, this is important when I am creating things!) If you want to rearrange your folders and consolidate... that's fine. I consolidate too. But I can't know how everyone else consolidates, everyone does it different, therefore I have to consolidate my free items in the best way I know how... and that's to put them in a folder that's for my free items only, in the correct Poser directories. Every reputable merchant I've seen does this and I think Lucy has a method that works for her, but doesn't work for me as I find it confusing to find my original artworks interspersed with all the things that aren't mine. I would constantly get them mixed up with items that are not mine, and forget eventually where they are located. (she herself said that she 'forgets' where things come from... so it should be understandable why I don't do this...) I don't disagree with the rest... anyway as I generally don't like to distribute addons but prefer to do stand-alone items, I don't have to worry about Joe Blogg's model not being available anymore for my texture... g And I pay for my own hosting, so the broken links part is taken care of too. That's mainly a problem with free sites that break links to items with high bandwidth.

regarding rsr converter... I couldn't find it for a long time and gave up looking. I found tutorial after tutorial and always a broken link to the program. I found P3dO Explorer and I much prefer it for RSR generation.

Simple way to create your own RSRs - load the model/prop/character you want an rsr for, get the view-point, lighting etc you want displayed (always use the default window as a guide to what will show up in the RSR thumb) and then re-save the item into your library. You can save over the original in this fashion, but it is recommended you save as a new file. You can also use this method to transfer models to new library files you create. Much easier and cheaper than getting additional converters etc, don't you think?...lol. From my understanding RSRs only provide the thumb-nail view of the model you see in the library...the CR2 is for the model info...in my experience when there's been no RSR Poser just brings up a picture of a person shrugging their shoulders as the thumb - name of CR2 is displayed with that thumb - hope that helps somewhat...;-)

this doesn't help you if you have ProPack. g It makes PNG, not RSR. I save to library, I get nice PNG files. What I do is... render my item. save as TIFF. crop and resize image in Fireworks (or other image editing program, I like Fireworks as its dealing with PNG and alphas really well) Save as PNG. use PD3O Explorer to make an RSR out of the PNG. delete PNG. let Poser recreate the PNG file out of the RSR that P3DO Explorer created. then you end up with RSR and a much smaller PNG file.

Kanearoonie, dude, get OVER yourself! Wowzanoma! I can't understand a word of what you're saying about the broken links. I think we are TOTALLY on different wavelengths. The texture for the Super Sexy Babe character isn't a broken link; it's sitting there all nice and happy. An automatic spider isn't going to pick that up as broken, 'cause it's not. Do you mean that someone should be going through every freestuff submission to make sure everything is still available somewhere? Wowie, I think we've got something for Sisyphus to do if that rock thing falls through. And even if Sisyphus did decide the texture is "broken" and pulls it, I COULD go somewhere else. I could just put it on my own site so that those who already have the Super Sexy Babe character and want my texture can have it, and those who want to whine about how awful and unfair I am for giving it away can be personally told to get bent. I don't know I'd said most freebies are from people looking to be merchants. I know mine aren't. My taxes are complicated enough without adding in semi-hobby income. I just want to share the nifty stuff I made. So I CAN say "you can not be arsed to fix a problem because you are sick of the public whining". I don't give a rat's hinder about public relations. Of course, I wouldn't do that anyway. I'd just pull it down and say "Aw, to hell with every last one of ya." And talk about high horses! I don't know if you meant it that way, but your message can be pretty easily read as claiming that you deserve butt-kissage for patronizing FREE stuff on the off chance that you might someday buy something from said person. Sorry, dude, I'll kiss my kitty's nose, but I ain't going anywhere near your hinder. You might want to consider rephrasing if that's not what you meant.

I think the whole point of it is to reduce the number of steps involved in getting to use an item- bought or free. One step is nothing, 20 do add up and thats 20 by hundreds of items. If one person does the "pre-work", like setting up the file structure, then hundreds of man hours are saved. If all providers set it up correctly- then all of us individually save many many many hours from excess work thats not being used produtively.

True story: A friend of mine had a car with a clean title. He put up an ad in the local directory. Free car, clean title, needs repair work, but runs, just pick up the car, and I'll sign over the title. He got over 20 calls the first day. The first person that called made an appointment to pick up the car. My friend waited for him and he was 1 hour late. Upon seeing the car, the person started complaining about the rust spots, the dents and oil leaks. My friend said: do you want the car or not? He said: yeah, but I gotta put at least $1000 in the car to make it run right. So my friend took his coat, lock the door behind him and took off. The second caller picked up his car the next day. Just to tell you, even giving aways stuff nowadays requires such efford...

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"Just to tell you, even giving aways stuff nowadays requires such efford... " Boy you're not kidding - especially when you're trying to give it away to some Renderosity members!

As i said in my comment up on #37 as long as all the maps are there and it works without blowing up poser I'll deal with deal with any other odd things that may be present in the file but when major texture files are missing then I tend to get a bit cranky.

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

Threads like this make me wonder why I ever make anything available for free. Ed <-- who's free stuff isn't in the free stuff, but it is on my site.

Swing by 3D Commune; they're more appreciative. Not everyone, by any means, but there are enough people here who feel entitled to be annoying. I got fed up by one of these many strings and pulled my stuff from Renderosity (everything up here now is under a courtesyware license; the rest is at other sites and on my own). Out of curiosity, I did a search for similar strings at 3D Commune, and at that time, there was not a single thread. Not one. I just wanted to go hug someone there.

I'm waiting for the first lawsuit to be filed over unsatisfactory freestuff - it has to be coming. People want it now, they want it their way, they want it without any effort and with no annoyances. The 'price' of freestuff is like the price of anything else, if you don't want to pay the price, don't 'buy' it. If moving freestuff directories around id esting up a significant portion of anyone's life expectancy, then maybe it's time to ease up on the Posering or use only commercial products. Must everything be homogonized, pre-digested and arranged for our comfort and minimal expenditure of energy. I'm not even sure that's a good thing and it's definitely never going to happen in this life.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Okay, just gonna add my rant about freestuff here since it'd be silly to start a new post... What I hate are the people that post free stuff for "Poser" that turns out, when you open up the zip, to be a straight .obj file. Ack! That's not Poser! Sure, I can import it into Poser, but then I've got to fiddle with the scale, tweak the textures, etc. I want some warning before I download it that I'll have to do extra work, so I can decide whether or not to waste your bandwidth and mine on an object I might not use. How simple is it- if it's not Poser, don't list it as such. If you want to get more downloads from Poser people, send it to a friend who -does- use Poser and have them convert it to a .cr2 or a .pp2 before you label it a "Poser" freebie!

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Rantin & ravin about freestuff....or....the 'price' of freestuff