Attached Link: http://www.arielsdreams.com/freegallery.htm#gallery_top

This site as a gallery called Ariels Dreams. At the bottom she has some artists links. But there are many images that do not. Makes you wonder if she actually asked permission of the artists that she did give a link to. Artist's links: runswithwind , Eowyn, jenay, BlueBeard, Cimerone , eirian, pizazz, Morris, cwshorty, turtle, Daio, wyrmmaster, guarie , Dave71 ,Vali , NemainRavenwood, BB, kussetubaby, rockets ,akahastur, artistheat , darkwhispers, hoalys , pungitrap, Avalonne, pjaj , Ecstasy ,Pharie82 ,swissy ,Rio ,Laurie S ,larissad ,Elusion ,ToxicAngel ,Fatale , macrey18,narcissus , CATMANDO, picky,RogueElement,linwhite,Catharina Przezak,,,,

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She has 11 of mine and no permission. I've been IM'ing the artist's whose work I recognized....didn't see the credits though. Linda

yeah ... she's got 6 or so of mine up there ... I've already written her. I can't seem to get a grip on why they are there, doesn't seem to go with the flow ... unless of course she plans to market our prints. Rhi

Ohh I see at least one of mine One I did with my Celothera character and one by my hubby Ravenism *Useing Black Rose, called Touch. And I know no one asked us if they could use our work. sigh This again grr..

well the statement at the bottom of the display page makes it pretty clear to me that our images there are "Merchandise" ==================================================== Ariel's Dreams Shopping-Gallery represents a new level of eBoutique that offers you a collection of the exotic as well as the familiar in an attractive and friendly site. Come for our exquisite merchandise and stay because you will discover so much more: Last modified 05/05/2003. ====================================================

Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur.

Shoot good eyes marforno I did not see that. They have no right to even have those images but if they are selling them that is horrible and they have to be stopped now. This is bullshit! Thank you Fyrene for letting us know.

Credits to Linwhite for finding this one. I just put it out in the open :))

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Ohh make that two of my images. Ok now I just need to find out what we can do to stop this. And a big thank you as well to linwhite.

Special thanks to Linwhite fior finding this new site. Seems like they trying to make money and great eyes Martin. Have not seen this . Damn do the never stop doing this :(

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

It was an accident, but you're welcome....it set major alarms ringing for me....Hope we can do something about it.

THANK YOU for finding this site. One of mine is up there. I'll be damned....never happened to me before. I am somewhat livid. >:o( -Em aka. nikitacreed

Ok this person has not contacted me or Toxic about these nor did they ask about marketing period!!! I would have said NO! The image they have is one that we posted awhile back, because the ones we have up now have watermarks all over them. We would NOT want our images sold on a crappy site like that anyways!!! I am so sick of people like this! This is why myself and Toxic had to put words all across our images.... Something needs to be done to have these images pulled and contact there ISP and have her site removed... Thanks Lin for letting us know about this!

It doesn't look like she sells the pictures at all, she says the gallery is for enjoyment. The sales seem to refer to electronics and items for the home. At the bottom of the page she has links to artists pages here at Renderosity.

ok heres some info about the person, this cam staright from Network solutions, so this is public knowlage and is legal for me to post. His host is Valueweb. I used to be with them and they wiill not tolerate this at all Registrant: ARIEL'S DREAMS (ARIELSDREAMS-DOM) 294 WHITTIER DR. MASTIC BEACH, NY 11951 AF Domain Name: ARIELSDREAMS.COM Administrative Contact: Lang, Anthony (AL8663) anthony.lang@USA.NET CD Medics Labs 294 WHITTIER DR MASTIC BEACH, NY 11951-1818 US 516-281-6958 fax: 516-281-9434 Technical Contact: ValueWeb (HOS237-ORG) hostmaster@VALUEWEB.NET ValueWeb 3250 west commercial Blvd. Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309 US 954-334-8000 fax: 954-334-8001 Record expires on 05-Feb-2004. Record created on 19-Sep-2002. Database last updated on 6-Jun-2003 00:42:07 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS.VALUEWEB.NET 216.219.253.211 NS2.VALUEWEB.NET 216.219.254.10

Yes, Scathdebas, she does have links to some of the artists but not all the artists of which she is displaying the images. Besides, I think it still would be respectful to ask permission first before setting up a gallery of other peoples artwork. Just my opinon :)

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Ok she has one of my image done with Toxic, and I was NOT credited NOR was either one of us asked! I am sick of people taking images that people spend so much time on and feel they can do what the please with them! Rendero has become a catalog of art for people to rip off... Is it going to come down to ever artist having to put watermarks all across the images because people like this? Its a real shame that people have no respect for the artist anymore...

Scathdebas It doesn't look like she sells the pictures at all, she says the gallery is for enjoyment. ========================================================== Even if she is not selling the images she has no right to display them without authorization... BTW being this a commercial site, exposing this images to attract people constitutes a commercial use of them... Am I wrong...?

Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur.

Ok straight from Valuewebs sight http://www.valueweb.com/policies.htm 12. Customer warrants that any material submitted for publication on ValueWeb does not violate or infringe any copyright, trademark, patent, statutory common law or proprietary interest of others or contain anything obscene or libelous. ValueWeb reserves the right to remove any and all materials which infringe on copyright work. Such materials will be removed at any time upon receiving a complaint and or notice of copyright infringement.

I GAVE NO-ONE PERMISSION FOR PICS ON THAT SITE IM SOOOO PISSED !

Attached Link: http://www.arielsdreams.com/images/gallery/

they've got alot more than what's on that page.....4 folders of images...

also ty very much linda for letting me know in your im to me it was kind of you to take the time and you too fyrene

This person has two of my images posted and I'm not even at the artist links, like all of you didn't ask permission either :( Thanks linda for pointing that site to our attention :)

Okay...so who do we contact to have our images removed? The webmaster (give 'em a chance) or the host (screw 'em...they shoulda known better)? LOL! I have never done this before people. heh Anyone got a form letter handy that I can send? -Em (the copyright infringement virgin)

The images in the folders linked by Dizzie seem to be stored under their Rosity names. Maybe someone can ran them against the gallery database.

heres who you contact. Any party seeking to report any other potential violations of this Agreement may contact ValueWeb via email at abuse@valueweb.com. I personaly am going to the host, There are WAY to many images stolen. I am sick to death of crap like this and I am now adopting a zero tolerance for it from here on out. We should not have to have to deal with this type of crap when we create art. This should be no different then someone taking a picture of say Luis Royo and making copies of it.... Its WRONG!

Ya make a good point Gina. Contacting the host it is. -Em

Some of my images are there too, without my knowledge and without my authorization either. Im so tired of this ... Thanks Linda for letting us know...

My Store | My Gallery

Attached Link: http://www.rightsforartists.com/

Hello all, This sounds like a bad case of copyight infrindgement. Here is a site, http://www.rightsforartists.com/, that has copy's of letters that you can send to the webmaster and/or host to have your pictures removed. I hope that this will help you.

Thank you bsteele07!

Thank you bsteele07!!!:) Ive sent my email

The Auto Response email I just got. LOL! --------------- ****** This an automatic response to confirm that we have received your ****** ****** recent report regarding a Network Abuse or Security incident ****** ****** involving a valueweb.net member, and are taking the following ****** ****** actions to resolve the issue: ****** The information that you have provided will be used to investigate the incident for violations of our Acceptable Use Policy at: http://www.valueweb.net/support/usage.shtml Once the investigation is complete, action in accordance with our policies will be taken against the offending account immediately. Since the current volume of email prohibits a personal reply to all reports, unless additional information is required, it is possible that this may be the only response that you will receive from us. ValueWeb maintains a "zero tolerance" policy towards spam and network abuse at any time. The following paragraph briefly explains our abuse procedure: If three or more complaints are received regarding a violation of the user agreement, a warning is sent. This rule does not apply to complaints regarding trademark/copyright infringement or illegal activity. If further complaints show proof the a customer violated the user agreement after the warning was sent, the account is put in "lock out" status. The account remains locked out until such time that the customer speaks to an administrator with an explanation of the activity and verification that the customer understands the policy. At this time,a customer may be re-enabled and warned that the next violation will result in the cancellation of the account. Cancellation due to violation(s) of the user agreement is permanent except in extremely rare situations. Please make sure to include full headers when sending complaints (forward the message directly, do not "bounce" or use "cut and paste") If you require additional assistance, or have an unresolved complaint, please indicate so in the subject and/or in the beginning of your message. ValueWeb Abuse abuse@valueweb.net -------------- I feel so much better now. NOT. heh -Em

sigh None of my pictures are there... Must mean I am indeed a crappy artist.... ;o) But I feel bad for all the artist who HAS their images stolen. I just somehow wish that it would happen to me... only once.....

Attached Link: http://www.toxicangel.com/stuff/rip.php

to see all the images that are on the site, ToxicAngel has provided us with a easy way to view. take a look...

Hey ernyoka1, dont feel bad. None of mine are there either. Waaahhhhhh!!! LOL Maybe I should feel lucky :) And I too feel bad for those that are they. Sheesh. 4 pages worth of images he has been storing!!!!

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Getting errors on the page Gina :(

****

And Janne (Toxicangel) did a great rip to see here :) Thanks Janne for this awesome work :) The biggest motherfucking crap on net

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

I say flood ValueWeb with complaints of copyright infringement - considering the number of infringements, make the point clear. That'll kick them into gear to do something. If that fails, a lawyer's notice of class-action suit would put a fire under them to move hastily. This point has been made ad nauseum, but signing or watermarking your images would go a long way to protecting your work. If I remember copyrights correctly, although minimally recognized as "properly" copyrighted material, signatures on artwork do have some amount of validation. Unless you can digitally sign the image file itself (a key or author field in the header), this is the best defense against this unpermissed misuse of images. BYS

You can probably fast track your complaint by contacting the copyright agent for Value Web directly... Amy Clarke copyright@affinity.com Ph: 954-334-8000 Fax: 954-334-8001

2 of my images posted there too but mostly I found ToxicRaven and Rhi images. Getting so sick of this crap.

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

After reading up a bit, it would be even better if you could add a copyright notice within the file or as text somewhere on the image - the usual (c) Your Name, 2003. That is enough to warn that use of the image without permission is infringement and subject to the law (Copyright Act and DMCA). Still, doesn't Rendorosity have some sort of notice of image property and use restrictions? Seem funny if they didn't. BYS

Renderosity does have a Copyright Policy, but it reads like it only pertains to member infringements and not external infringements. Will have to reread that. :) It's on the right menu under "Renderosity". BYS

A stunning find, if for nothing more than the sheer size of the ripoffs, which means that none of this happened by accident. With all the time and effort that went into culling the images, making up the website, etc. I certainly don't think I have any images in there, but, in a former live, 25 years ago this week, I was the victim of a similar act, which caused me practically no end of grief (at the time), i.e., financial, emotional, artistic, etc., not to mention manhandled by some security guards over this issue (a long story), and that was only the first incident (again, a long story), subsequently threatened by some really unsavory types, and I didn't even mention the eventual lawyer fees. Seems like every other day or so there is one of these threads. Thievery is nothing new, but this kind is obviously a byproduct of the ease of misusing the technology. Seems like something should be done, i.e., banding together, collective representation, etc. My heart goes out to you.

Well, I guess she or he doesn't like my style...none of mine there.

Well....it looks like one of those "shopping channels" you see on cable tv :) They have links to damned near everything, including a lot of "get rich quick", pyramid type schemes. The images are not posted for sale, but the link that get's you the viewing page is called "Ariel's Gallery".....as if they actually created some of them :) Looks like they grabbed a crapload of images and do some kind of rotation. Certainly more images in those folders than appear in the thumbs on the site. The "artists links" that are posted make it look as though you are all part of their "marketing partnership"! :) I'd be mad as hell too! Everyone's looking for "a quick buck"! Good grief!

Attached Link: Copyright Psd layer

Ok I have done a Psd file with a layer with a copyright watermark. I know its not pretty but it will protect you from this. You can paste the layer over your art and then set the opacity. You can also set it to overlay if you want it to be less visiable. Set to screen and 20% it will look this the image.

Also it seems there are about 527 images total in the images folder. This may not be exact due to the code being done while ToxicAngel rage fumes.
You can see the image names and how many here :)
http://www.toxicangel.com/stuff/rip2.php

Thanks a lot you both for the quick rip and the copyright psd layer that will help to protect our work. We must do some in this way if we wanna stop this crap. I hope everybody find a useful way to use this layer :) Thanks again you both for the quick work you have done :)

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

If you already use PhotoShop, there is a way to copyright your image using a Digimark watermark. Low-level protection is free and already included... you can purchase a higher level (more deeply embedded) watermark with your name and contact info if you wish. look in the menu under "Filters"; it is there at the bottom. After using save-for-web to shrink the image for publication on the 'Net, hit it with this filter... and a little "(c) year" notice is attached to your image like a luggage tag. It is possible to get around this protection by clipping or tubing part of the image, but if people are stealing the whole kit, cat, and kaboodle, you can at least add the notice. Carolly

I feel so badly for all of you who were ripped off. Some of my acquaintances' work is in there. This is disgusting. My heart truly goes out to the victims of this person with no ethics.

Not trying to make light of this as it's a very serious problem but I do wish just once someone would steal something of mine then I can finally say I'm an artist.

This is so lame, and getting more popular to steal it seems. Go get em and make an example of them! Marque

This is when I wish I knew how to hack a site. How blatent she is! Marque

Attached Link: http://alicorna.com/misc.html

Digimarc is a paid service. You have to license a number from them in order to mark your images, and it's not a visible watermark, so it doesn't really discourage anyone from taking anything. It's useful in some situations (some kinds of online stock photography sites, for example), but probably not that useful in a situation like this. The best way to "prove" that something is your original image is simply to keep the .psd (or equivalent) with all the layers and so forth that show it as a work in progress. It's virtually impossible for someone to fake something like that. And yes, a visible watermark is a good thing. I've started to do that on all my images, plus I include a subtle URL watermark for my art domain. People would have to not only crop the image but also airbrush out various parts of it to claim it was their own. This should discourage the "tubers" who like to hack images up and those who would try to pretend they made the images. I have some free "watermark" layer styles you can play with use, alter, etc., available on my web design site if anyone's interested. PS6 and PS7, instructions on how to use are in the .zip file. Link attached. Am I mistaken that you have to be a member to view the gallery here? I thought you did, but I admit I haven't investigated. Perhaps Renderosity could re-write the Copyright policy somewhat to be a little sterner to people who want to steal images. I'm not suggesting anything draconian, but something clear, legally sound, and official sounding might scare off a couple of these idiots a little bit. Then again, I think these people are like cockroaches. You can stomp them indefinitely and they'll still keep coming back. They breed in the sewers and cracks in the walls. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

i found at least 7 of my pics in there but i couldnt get them all to load if anyone sees more than that please im me so i can send the list to ravnheart and toxic angel and if i run across anyone elses anywhere else ill do the same for you -jeweldragon

This is a sad day for me.. a couple of my images where on there..and I have been thinking of adding watermarks to my images before..but find that they invade the image too much.. Guess I'm gonna have to reconcider =/

Hacking is not what is required here? You could be more subtle, contact the site owner say how nice their images in the gallery are, ask if there is any way you can have them, buy them or given to you the owner is in further breach of copyright! This being distribution of copyrighted material. Say you are opening an arts and crafts stall and would like the images on postcards etc.. Is there any way they could do that for you! Then ask the question, "am I OK with the copyright? I assume because YOU own them that by selling them to me that this I am able to sell them on without breaching copyright" See what happens then! For your info Obtaining Copyright Protection Copyright protection arises automatically when an "original" work of authorship is "fixed" in a tangible medium of expression. Registration with the Copyright Office is optional (but you have to register before you file an infringement suit, and registering early will make you eligible to receive attorney's fees and statutory damages in a future lawsuit). A copyright owner has five exclusive rights in the copyrighted work: * Reproduction Right. The reproduction right is the right to copy, duplicate, transcribe, or imitate the work in fixed form. * Modification Right. The modification right (also known as the derivative works right) is the right to modify the work to create a new work. A new work that is based on a preexisting work is known as a "derivative work." * Distribution Right. The distribution right is the right to distribute copies of the work to the public by sale, rental, lease, or lending. * Public Performance Right. The public performance right is the right to recite, play, dance, act, or show the work at public place or to transmit it to the public. In the case of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, showing the work's images in sequence is considered "performance." Sound recordings - recorded versions of music or other sounds - do not have a public performance right. * Public Display Right. The public display right is the right to show a copy of the work directly or by means of a film, slide, or television image at a public place or to transmit it to the public. In the case of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, showing the work's images out of sequence is considered "display." In addition, certain types of works of "visual art" also have "moral rights" which limit the modification of the work and the use of the author's name without permission from the original author. Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of a Copyright owner is an infringer.

Please note that some countries do not have any way to "register" copyrights, therefore it's not a requirement everywhere that you have to register anything in order to make a claim or recover damages. Just a little note since some people are unaware of this. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

I have created my own action in photoshop, to create a copyright layer. I only use it on items I think are worth it. If anyone wants to know how to create a layer full of copyright info from just the 1 copyright line you have typed in please let me know, I will then write a quick how to!

hello again,
i am glad i could help. after reading your responses, and the post from nikitacreed, if everyone who had a image taken and posted would send an email to valueweb (use the templates at www.rightsforartists.com), i think that they will probably either have the images removed or shut the site down. i just checked out the site and this is a really blatant copyright issue. i know that you are really pissed about this, but if we do this "legally", we have a better chance of resloving this and possibility preventing this from happening again.

as for watermarking images, Ravnheart's example shows how awful an image looks when watermarked in this fashion (in my opinion). just remember to always sign your work and this affords you copyright protection.

well i have said enough for now. again i am glad i could help, after all, your tuts, images, meshes, texts, etc..., have helped and insipred me.

this guy lives about 30 minutes from me.. Anyway want me to go ring his doorbell?

Boy, what a shame, I feel so bad for you all. If there is anything I can do to support you all, please let me know, I will post information on our site if you need, just let me know. Sharen

There's at least one of mine. :-(

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

I followed ToxicAngel's link and found 7 of mine. I couldn't put the title on some, because they are so old and no longer in my gallery so I just layed the cursor over the thumbnail and got this person's number to identify them. I have a cable connection and those were still the slowest loading pages I've ever been to. So be warned if you have a dial-up.

My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice!

none of mine... but that probably because i put a layer with name on over the top! and mine are digitally signed ;) I don't like putting text through my images, but it seems as a result of things like this i will continue to do so.. I hope this gets sorted out people hugs SimderZ

My Gallery

I contacted the site owner and the webmaster this morning in regards to this violation, I've posted a copy of the email and their sorry ass response so far below.

 
I was directed to your site this morning by a friend and was shocked to find several of the images that you have in your gallery that belong to most of my friends. Do you have permission to show these images??? If not they should be removed immediately since this is in violation of the copyright of each one of them that you did not personally do. I do hope to see these images removed and to hear back from you before I contact your ISP.  
~~~~~~~~  
 
and this was the response I got - probably a friggin ebot...  
 
"I will read your message with great interest and reply if appropriate. Thank you."  
~~~~~~~~  
 
WTF....  
 
I am really stunned by this, especially after finding a couple of mine after I sent the email. Linda, Rhiannon, Gina,ToxicAngel and GothicAngel - thanks so much for the heads up

WTF well on a good note the Artist's links go to yall's store's but still this is wrong so very wrong has any one call there site host and had them close the site till the pic's are off if you all call the host they will do that just a thought xoxo

========================================================
Typing Advisory :
Read at your own risk! May cause
dizziness, naseua,drooling, and temporary blindness.
Surgeon General recommends running the txt through a spell checker.

Umm they have many images that they do not have any sort of link to the artist in any way. IE myself and my hubby, Ravenism, have images that they took without asking and posted there, and no link or mention of us in anyway. Not that it would make it much better cause I would still be pissed.

and you should be what she/he did is f-up and she/he should have the site pulled

========================================================
Typing Advisory :
Read at your own risk! May cause
dizziness, naseua,drooling, and temporary blindness.
Surgeon General recommends running the txt through a spell checker.

I know this is probably not the best thread to say this but every single one of thos images is stunning. Really really inspiring. Great work all.

well first time I've clicked on one of these links and actually found one of my images. perhaps the rosity gallery should have a blurb on every gallery page saying something like "the work shown is the property of the individual artist. it may not be displayed linked to or used in any form without the artists permission." too often I hear the rationale that since its just being shown on the web thats not really publishing or distribution. which is BS frankly. but unless its spelled out in easy to understand language rather then legalese, you'll always get the armchair lawyers who say copywrite law doesnt apply to what they are doing.

I stayed up until 2:00 going through all the folders and I have 49 images stolen, some I deleted MONTHS ago, so this must have been going on for a looooooooooong time. Linda

geez linda im really sorry to hear that i hope something can get done quickly about this im sorry for all who got thier stuff taken

Those are gorgeous images. If we have to start watermarking beautiful pieces of work, I'm going to be truly sad. :/ I hope this gets resolved soon.

its a poor leecher...tsss...no comments for this crap

Thanks for the info she has a couple of mine also...

I took it upon myself to write this "Debra" and also the webmaster listed, Anthony. My original message is at the bottom, and here's a reply I got ... if it's this easy, then fantastic ... if not, we'll see huh? I'm not sure, but I don't think they want this huge barage of R'osity artists breathing down their necks. Everyone, please write these folks and lets get this nipped quickly, yes? All images in the Ariel's Dreams gallery are displayed for free and a link to the gallery/store of the artist is provided as well. I will be happy to remove your images if this remains your intention. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lady Rhi To: debra.lang@arielsdreams.com Cc: Anthony.Lang@arielsdreams.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:35 PM Subject: Unauthorized Use of My Copyrighted Images I am writing to ask you to remove any of my images you have displayed in the gallery on your website. It would seem that you imply that the images may be for sale. I don't know if this is your intention, but my images are copyrighted, as are most all of the images I recognize, and I do not recall giving you permission to display these images here. My images are copyrighted and are protected by international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of my original images, without express permission from me, is forbidden. I'd want them removed within 24 hours. Thank you for your attention in this matter. Regards, Rhiannon Morrigan

Can't we all get together since Not one of us agreed that they could show our pictures, That is bullcrap about links to our name. I never gave permission for the use of images or to use Reno's link to my Gallery here. Dosen't Ren have some rule these jerks broke.????? I still think they are selling them or doing something besides showing our work. I think If our Site Here at Renderosity would stick up for us, we could end a lot of this kinds of stealing. After all Ren is the Biggest and best on the internet. We all buy from the Store and this is my home on the net. I would love to think it's a group and we stick together. One call or E-mail from our sites Reps. would most likely do more good than 50 e-mails by us personaly. Just a thought. Leah

Love is Grandchildren.

I agree Rhi, I just got pretty much the same reply pasted below- -------------------- These images are not being displayed as property of Ariel's Dreams but as works of other artists with links to the artist's gallery/store presented at the bottom of the pages. If any artist chooses to be removed they may contact me at this address and I will be happy to remove their art and the link to their store/gallery from the site. -------------------- Hmmmmm....I guess it never occurred to them that they should ask first....grrrrr

They are about to get one from me to. I just copied Rhi's and altered it a bit. LOL! -------------------- I am writing to ask you to remove any of my images you have displayed in the gallery on your website. It would seem that you imply that the images may be for sale. I don't know if this is your intention, but my images are copyrighted, as are most all of the images I recognize, and I do not recall giving you permission to display these images in any way whatsoever, much less on a commercial site. My images are copyrighted and are protected by international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of my original images, without express permission from me, is forbidden. I want them removed within 24 hours. (I suggest you remove all the images since we are a tightly knit community and most of the artists displayed on your site have been contacted and are rather irate about this violation of thier work and copyright.) Section of your website containing copyrighted work of many, many angry Renderosity artists - http://www.arielsdreams.com/freegallery.htm Thank you for your attention in this matter. Your website host Valueweb has already been contacted by myself and many other artist's at Renderosity whose images are being displayed on your commercial site in violation of thier copyright due to your already insufficient response to several of the artist's complaints. Removing only those images of the artist's who contact you is hardly cooperation on your part. You DO NOT own the the copyright on ANY of those images displayed on your site and you ARE in violation of copyright law, as well as your webhost's Terms of Service. Regards, -Emily Thrasher aka. nikitacreed -------------------- I already contacted the host last night. I felt I should send this one because I really don't like that crap about each artist needing to CONTACT her to have thier images removed. What a load of crap. -Em

6 of mine on there, and I didn't see any link to my gallery at all. I also gave no permission.

Okay... i'm going to add something to this thread too!

Quote from Rhi's post :

These images are not being displayed as property of Ariel's Dreams but as works of other artists with links to the artist's gallery/store presented at the bottom of the pages. If any artist chooses to be removed they may contact me at this address and I will be happy to remove their art and the link to their store/gallery from the site."

Yea, a pretty neat answer, considering that most of the so called "Links to the stores" are still missing and probably this guy/gal/whatever doesnt give a damn about it!

Anyway, what p***es me off the most - the guy asks us to go thru the images and tell him the gallery id's to him so that he can delete the files! WTF - If you ripped of somebodys stuff with Drag and Drop / Save Image As... -method, at least for god sake - put them into the folder assosiated with artist's name (thank you)!

But the thing is : first rip-off, then mix-up, and in the end it's our fault! :)

ROFL - and as for me, i only found 1 of my image ripped so i guess i'm not pleasing their taste anyway grins

it's really sad cause the famous artist are paranoiac with that people but don't forget the people who love your art without leeching...peer to peer are the same (just try renderosity on kazaa or emule and else...)it's a reel problem no? who read the read me sincerely? maybe it's time to resolve it? p.s:sorry for my bad english ;)

I think this is terrible! I'm a little freaked out actually. I don't know if anyone has even thought about why they post there work here beyond showing off but the artwork here becomes public domain when you post it. You don't wave your rights to ownership but by posting it you are doing so with the knowledge that anyone can copy it and you are aware of it. A little copyright symbol on the image isnt going to stop someone from linking it/posting it elsewhere. Do you realise they are a reseller? The site is a clickthrough/spider site thats setup to generate as many hits for profit in as little time as possible. You all just feel for the biggest scam and the more you feed that fire the more it will continue. Does this happen often? If you ever find a website that is doing this very thing the best thing you can do is track them down (in the real world) and deal with it. Going to their site and sending your friends and they send theirs just puts more hits in their pocket and the concept survives. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be crass. Maybe I would feel different if one of my images (or more) were there but, somehow I doubt it. I'm am fully aware of the pros and cons of posting ANYTHING online. Again, I'm sorry for those of you who feel wronged.

if they are generating income from hits then all of us who have images there are due compensation. sounds like a lawsuit is in order.

ok just a last word from paris...(i know..lol;)if you come in paris try chatelet and the halles shirt you will see all the poser work ready to print for teeshirt...i asked the seller and the answer was "keep cool man it's free on the web ..." i'm not a great artist but i understand people who work night and day but its a reality..sample was the problem in the music no? it's cool to talk about htis problem but action will better no?

http://www.artistscope.com/ sorry i talking a lot but try this link ;)

I wrote that Deb and the copywrite person. I don't agree, That when we post here we give up our copywrite. Wrong.

Love is Grandchildren.

3ncryptabl3_lick states: "I don't know if anyone has even thought about why they post there work here beyond showing off but the artwork here becomes public domain when you post it. You don't wave your rights to ownership but by posting it you are doing so with the knowledge that anyone can copy it and you are aware of it. A little copyright symbol on the image isnt going to stop someone from linking it/posting it elsewhere....." If this in fact is true....that by posting here at Rendorosity the artists work becomes "public domain" that anyone can copy, then I think everyone ought to have a serious discussion with Rendorosity. My work is not good enough yet to merit stealing, but I've always believed that any submissions I've made for challenges and the like could be used by Rendorosity for promotional purposes (that seems clear). But I never had the impression that any "jug head" could just march in here and download whatever they wanted simply because it was posted here!. Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable on this subject can clarify....or better yet....one of the Rendo staff or moderators.

People don't give a s**t about copyright or copyright law suit :( I have this on my website and the images still get stolen :( ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ These images are not in the public domain. They belong exclusively to the artist. Their presence on the web only means that the images are to be seen, and not taken and used or claimed by others. These images are not to be used elsewhere without permission from the artist, nor are they to be modified and reused, included on a personal website, compilation CD or redistributed in any way. No part of this web site may be copied, transferred or re-created without the written consent of the owners. All photos, text, and other intellectual content contained within 'Omega Order' or any of the enclosed sites are copyrighted and protected under National and International Copyright Laws as well as Fair Use Provision Acts. Any violation will result in prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. All Rights Reserved whether written or implied. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I contacted the site owner and the webmaster this morning in regards to this violation and got only one auto response :( "I will read your message with great interest and reply if appropriate. Thank you." Question...If there is a national and internation copyright law why the heck the don't do anything and protect the artists better :(

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

Well, neat answer or not, it's still copyright violation and their ISP needs to be aware that as long as they allow those images to be displayed they are also guilty of copyright violations, especially if they have been given notification of what is going on. So everyone needs to not only write the website contacts but their ISP as well and raise hell with them and demand that the gallery area be taken down at least until they have gotten rid of all of the images. Turtle you are correct, we DO NOT give up our copyrights when we post there. Actually when we post here, it falls under "publishing" a piece of work which is protected under copyrights. It does not become "public domain" when it is posted here, 3ncryptabl3_lick, that is completely false. Just talk to Royo and Bell about and their lawyers :) And to me, their nice neat little answer indicates to me that they've been through this before :) Pendy

Well, something has happened, because that entire gallery section is no longer on line. A 404 not found error in it's place.

You dont give up your rights at all. Sorry, I should not have said 'it becomes public domain' but rather 'it might as well become public domain' Public... Your work isnt being hung in a gallery with a pricetag and guards and security. You posted it for people to see and are not charging a fee. ...You should not be surprised this happenes. Since your work is public (the instant you post it) and by virtue of being aware it can be copied freely, you might as well give permission to do so because people will. Now people who sell same, well that's just wrong. It's alot like an EULA. Sometimes all it takes is to break a seal to wave your rights or click a check box or install a program. When you post, you are almost doing the same thing. The problem is, nobody cares! The image is online and if its online its free for the taking. Thats the point. It's really just a matter of what you are willing to deal with when you post anything online. Words, ideas, pictures, video, audio... Thats a fact of the web. It's too bad but its reality. allwhois.com is your friend. Use it. Abuse it. Teach those who steal your work a lesson... Or discuss and complain about it here and wait and hope someone else will do something about it, whatever works... ;)

3ncryptabl3_lick, you are wrong! Following your premise, a printed book that someone buys is "in the public domain" and can therefore be used as if uncopyrighted. Incorrect. It is still copyrighted as you and your lawyer would soon find out if you provided the full text on a website or quoted parts without proper attributions. Copyright law is clear: publication of a unique work of art (of any kind) is automatically covered; validated by the use of a copyright mark, legalized by a registration. The rights to distribute, display, publish, sell, etc. are all solely those of the creator unless permission or transfer or rights is given by the creator. Note that one does not need to register a copyright to claim copyright to their work. In many cases, such as artwork, a signature is enough to provide copyright claim (but it'd be easier to defend your claim with a proper copyright mark). Public domain, my ass. Go take unique images from other web sites (especially corporate) and put them on your own site and see how "public domain" they are. Public domain as in "publically cease and desist with prompt removal" with a nice notarized legal letter and threats of suit. BYS

Well, now that you've explained yourself, sorry for the rant. But, it doesn't excuse this. The only reason that you can defend it is because of the anonymity of the internet. Let's take a little art show in some market. The pictures there aren't for sale, just for display - maybe local artists getting some coverage. There are no armed guards, nor are there any signs of "Copyrighted Materials". This is a "real" gallery just like the one here where anybody can view and admire the work. Except for the fact that if someone were to say to themselves, "Wow, I like that picture, think I'll take it home with me." and walk off with it, it'd be considered theft. If they later claimed that it was theirs, it would be copyright infringement (if not plagiarism, etc.). So, what's the difference? Just because I would love a nice home gallery with some modest works by DaVinci, Botticelli, Dali, and Escher doesn't give me the right to just borrow them for myself, does it? BYS

Ok one down!!!! The images from the front page have been removed. The folders have been passworded. We cant get in them but at least no one else can. The images have been pulled from the front page finally. So now its a private gallery, and they way it should have been kept. Im sure this person will not try this again. ToxicAngel has also removed the ripoff links now :) Thank you all for swift action and helping to put a stop to this. I would like to give a HUGE thank you to Linwhite for bringing this to our attention. This has really opened my eyes and made me anrgy for the abuse of so many artists. I will be becoming extremely active in helping the artists protect there work and themselves. This is a shame that we can not enjoy our art without the fear of people stealing it. Look for some ways to protect yourself coming soon. Thank you all!!!

The question is...why so many other members here putting you on your favorite artist list without having a own gallery. Kinda sort that makes me wonder. I guess if we would search closer we would find more websites like Ariels Dream Gallery :( @ 3ncryptabl3_lick.You are very wrong. If you sign your image it is copyrighted. Their presence on the web only means that the images are to be seen, and not taken and used or claimed by others. These images are not to be used elsewhere without permission from the artist, nor are they to be modified and reused, included on a personal website, compilation CD or redistributed in any way Hopefully this will say enough :)

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

Yeah... it is down but how can we know if the images were deleted also from those passworded folders...? , well Many thanks to Linwhite , and to Gina and Janne...

Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur.

Hopefully it stays down and thanks to everyone for the great support...:)

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

Martin, I doubt that they have been deleted and that's why they are passworded, so we will not know. That is unless of course someone breaks the password or gets the password, then they can claim we hacked their account. Gotta love it when theives think.

Well, I hate to break this to you, but the thumbnails are all still right there on the front page. I got the "password" popup annoyance box and clicked it a few times and it finally gave up and let me scroll down the page (I'm using Netscape 7). They may be in the process of removing them now, as I see several missing graphics, but who knows with a moron like this. "But, but, it's okay because I'm not saying they're mine!" As for the concept that people should "expect" this kind of behavior, most of us who have been around the net for long DO expect it. We don't, however, have to tolerate it or allow it or ignore it. It's true that there's nothing to keep people from making off with our images and hacking them up, reselling them, making them into web sets, who knows what else, but there's also nothing preventing US from contacting web hosts and taking other steps to stop a known offender. Perhaps this person really is clueless. From the looks of her page I'd say that's a good bet. But many of us here are not clueless, and we're not willing to put up with crap like this when we discover it. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

It is too bad my point was totaly ignored. Unfortunately you are all simply fooling yourselves. You have no rights online. Whether you beleive me or not, it's doesnt matter if im wrong. When you post an image online its public. You can show me any line from any book about copyright laws, it would be a mute point. This isnt about what is right and what is wrong! This is about cause and effect. You post pics, people can/will steal them. If this was a morality issue, well it wouldnt have evovled at all. Who cares about copyright laws when the appication of same on the web is foggy at best!? I'm trying to help you guys deal with the facts here but you seem blinded by the moment. I hope clarity prevails.

the really sad thing is that most of us don't sell or make money from our pictures- and that if asked many would give permission with a link back. I do :)

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com/

Don't think we are done yet. This person asked my permission to post my work on her site and since she provided the link I thought I'd go have a look. Another place with hundreds of images. Just going through the Fairy section and saw many of Turtle's images, of which she is now aware, so thought maybe other's had their work posted without permission as well.

FlyByNight

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com/image%20in%20air/Artistes/artisteen.php

There is another website showing images. Not sure if anyone gave permission, I bet not. 84 images by Turtle, 94 images by linwhite, 22 by Laurie S and more.

Seems it really never stops. Thanks to one of our members for posting this link over at Faeriewylde.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

OMG....this is outrageous. At least the visual presentation of the site is better than the website link that started this thread, but never-the-less it's just not right.

... And BTW BeatYourSoul, you anology is rediculous. The meer fact that it has a presents online does not mean you cant copy/download it at all. Regardless of a signmature or not. Try this one since it is more aplicable. Walk down any street and put your poster/artwork on a billboard or street post. Thats more like what you have here since renderosity has no insurance adjustment (and will not) for people stealing work posted on their site. Why would they!? Because it is pointless. Images, audio, video and text works will continue to be stolen/used without permission regardless of whether YOU think your safe or not. Im not defending anyone. Why would I? If you all think you have been screwed somehow and that you have rights to post your work and not have it copied, your the ones who are wrong. This situation proves my point. Whether the law is on your side or not, you can't prove the person posting these pics had actually stolen them at all. Just because you see them elsewhere dosent denote theft. Do you suddenly own the rights to the file extention? or the file size too? how about the 1's and 0's that make up the image? or is it just the way that you assembled those 1's and 0's ? I'm feeling less likely that some of you care mush for the solution. While I'll bet the rest of you are feeling pretty good your work was stolen and posted somwhere else other than here. You do what you can to make yourself feel good at the end of the day. I only hope I can clear a few heads into thinking that this is exactly what you should have expected.

"3ncryptabl3_lick, you are wrong! Following your premise, a printed book that someone buys is "in the public domain" and can therefore be used as if uncopyrighted. Incorrect. It is still copyrighted as you and your lawyer would soon find out if you provided the full text on a website or quoted parts without proper attributions."

Actually, you're both right to a degree. True your work doesn't become "public domain" but intellectual property displayed on the internet and the right to use them is still in infancy with regard to the public's knowledge of the law.
I doubt you'd find anyone who would see nothing wrong with transfering an entire book to his website but put up a graphic and next thing you know it's all over the net. It's simply not something that people are used to dealing with yet. Anyone can have a website for practically nothing and the first thing they do is put every flashing thing on it they can find because it's so easy.

I highly recommend placing distinct copyright wording over your entire image though when you publish them online in your galleries. Thank you Ravnheart for the psd file. I was at a community sidewalk "faire" sort of thing and a woman had boxes with tiles on the lids with artwork that I had seen elsewhere and I knew wasn't hers. I asked someone about them and she did have them put on the lids herself. It wouldn't surprise me if a few of the images had been from galleries like here at R'osity. A company at a very large and well known trade show in Las Vegas was describing where they got their images for their products and really stumbled around the explaination when I delved into the "do you have the copyright" question. I had such a hunch they were infringing I refused to deal with them. And just like the guy papyes mentioned, he got his material off the net and it's not like he or the woman I saw have a web host to keep them shut down. Sad but true. At least the web infringers are fairly easy to stop.

...... Kendra

Image-in-Air has my complete permission. She's a very lovely person and posts here regularly. I would be 100% sure she has permission from the others, too. I never mind if people just ask...geeze. I always give permission if there's no porn on the site. (Just a personal preference on that.) I usually avoid discussions, like this, but since I seem to be involved in this one already......I've just got to say that as to whether it "feels good" to have your images used on a site without permission, the answer is "NO". It does, however, feel good with permission, as you realize that those people love art and have something so important in the murky on-line world....integrity. If the attitude is...."Expect to be ripped off, and I know it's really making you feel good", then I'd say that's about as clueless as one can get. I've never been protective, never even signed my images because I do them for the joy of it. It's also why I love to see the other images in this gallery. But I can tell you quite truthfully that seeing those images (mine and others) on that site like that didn't feel a bit good. Linda

I was wrong on this one, I had given sylia permission. but I never thought she would move my whole gallery there. She is a nice lady and always asks. We worked out a soluation, for her to delete some and ask me, for each picture. So if she has something of yours just tell her and she will take it down. but I think she has everyones ok on these. So I told Fly by night I didn't give permission and then when the woman wrote me I remembered her. Sorry Fly my IM. didn't get to you on time. So egg on my face. Leah

Love is Grandchildren.

3ncryptabl3_lick - there's a difference between a legal right and the ability to enforce it. Yes, we do have the right to display our work and control how it is used. On the other hand, keeping that right is difficult. Unless we do what we can to enforce that right, we will lose it. Realistically, when I go walking down the street, I can't guarantee that someone won't try to kill me. I have the right to walk around where I want to, but I can't be 100% sure that I could stop someone from trying to kill me. That's why I pay my taxes for police officers. Billboards are out in public, and there's a reasonable expectation that they won't be defaced due to property laws. (Yes, there's grafitti idiots, but that's why we have police and neighborhood watches to guard against such things.) Why should we meekly surrender our rights just because it's the Internet? No, we'll never get 100% compliance with the law, but should we therefore let theft run rampant? (Sorry, ma'am, but since we haven't solved every burglery, we've given up trying to catch any burglars?)

bla bla bla ...mot of email lot of reaction and?

With all this going on you see something and just think it's the same as with all the others. But I am glad that this time it's ok.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Me wonders who hides behind the nickname "3ncryptabl3_lick". No gallery and those comments... But what is it about http://www.image-in-air3d.com/??? I recognized the site at once. It has a lot of objects for bryce, which where here posted in freestuff. I already downloaded some of it. I also have peeked once at the gallery (very short, you know how this is) thinking it was a community gallery like Poserpros or so, where people showcast their work. I never suspected that there maybe something wrong. OMG. Now I took a closer look. Please tell me that the images of Luciferino, Madame, Turtle and of all the other artists are there with their permission! I liked this site. No, it must be ok!? There are all the featured artists listed with the number of their images. Every image has the appropriate credits. There is even a most viewed statistic. It is ok, is it?

I just fired off a e-mail to them as well. This is 100% bull! We respect all the artists of Renderosity. We stand by you all!

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

"This isnt about what is right and what is wrong!" Um, yes, it is. Duh.

BekaVal Read mine and Lindas Post, this woman has our permission. She would not steal. nice Lady.

Love is Grandchildren.

Err, the site 404's now... guess it's been taken care of (I hope?) /P

Thank you Turtle. This lightens up my view, even though it is already dark outside here.

BTW, I was talking about the http://www.arielsdreams.com site. Just wanted to make that clear

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

Man this is really something...:-), I know that everybody knows well how to download an image... and as turtle and linwhite say they gave authorization to expose their work... I wonder if they also allowed her to distribute/give away their work ... Did you guys read this in the left frame of the Gallery page...? ========================================================== http://www.image-in-air3d.com/image%20in%20air/Categorie/categorieen.php ========================================================== To "Save An Image", all you have to do is "Open It" and "Right Click" on it with the mouse. A window will open, choose "Save As", then choose the format that you desire the image to be saved in (.JPG, .BMP,.........etc). Now choose which folder on your hard drive you wish the file to be saved too. Finally, click on "Save". ==================================================== This person might be a very good person, but seems to encouraging people to download the images exposed... I don't see those instructions at Renderosity for instance... Just a thought... Images for the taking...!!!

Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur.

If someone downloads an image and puts it in a folder on their harddrive without the original artists permission, it's theft IMHO. What more proof do you need? The password protection of the folders is designed to keep people from not seeing what's in them.....to hide the theft. You know......those who create browsers could stop this. Eliminating the "save as", "view source" "select all", "copy" and "print screen" "caching images to the temp folders" and "offline browsing" would go a long way to eliminating this problem. The only way an item could be obtained is through a legitimate download link created by the artist/page creator. Sure, I suppose someone could "hack" the page, but most of these people would be too lazy to try and figure it out. It would be nice if Microsoft and Netscape at least took it upon themselves to implement these changes. Tutorials and the like can be set up for download as easy as not. I can think of no legitimate reason for someone to save pages on the web other than to save a tutorial for later use. Other than that, they just want to steal something.

Yes, I read that too, just a minute ago, Maforno. It seems a bit unusual. But under the frame with the images is a copyright disclaimer. On the other hand, anyone can rightclick and save pics to his HD. This can be restricted by disabling the right click by programming.

yeah I saw the disclaimer too... but should't be more visible than the downloading instructions...? or at least in the same place...? Or Better yet... much better indeed... NO DOWNLOAD instructions and the copyright disclaimer in it's place...?

Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur.

I think Sylvie (ImageInAir) was thinking of private and temporary desktop usage, and how many of us haven't done that....be honest. I'm sure she would remove those instructions, Marforno, if asked. But personally, I don't care if my images are used as wallpaper. If it brighten's someone's day and screen for a little while, then I'm only happy about it. Let's not confuse Sylvie with the commercial site with no permission....PLEASE!!! She asked permission...Ariel didn't. Linda

But personally, I don't care if my images are used as wallpaper. If it brighten's someone's day and screen for a little while, then I'm only happy about it. I have to totally agree with that Linda. LOL!

Yeah Linda... I agree there is a huge difference between the 2..., as I stated in my first posting about this it was just a thought ... as many others struggling in my mind since last night... The only Good thing about all this is... that I was distracted from my work (haven't done a thing in 24 hours...:-)) spending all this time looking at images in both places... And I have to say... I have seen WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL works... You guys are such a bunch of good artists..., think I will pay more attention to our good RO. Gallery from now on... peace to all (me goes back to work... :-)

Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur.

Image-in-Air has my permission, nice gal, asked first and always includes links, credit and so on.

OK, Y'all... I think our work here is done. It's a 404. H:)

Yep...case closed. :O)

BekaVal I am new here. If my lack of a gallery precludes my innocent comments and subjects me to scrutiny then thats your porogative. xoconostle, DUH. this ISNT about what is right and what is wrong. We all know theft is wrong. Don't you? Or did you learn that here? This is about the 'actions' not the 'ideals'. Of which, we are all in agreement. What happened is wrong. BUT is it theft!? I say it isnt. The rest of you say it is. Are we all here to debate that? Am I defending theft? Am I belittling all who think that anything is safe online no matter what the law states? Wake up.

I REALLY hope that we don't start disabling the ability to save images from the galleries here. I have saved many excellent images from Renderosity to use as wallpaper, to study the techniques used, and simply to have and enjoy when I'm offline. Pirates will use Printscreen to get them anyway (as will I if that's the only way to save them for my own enjoyment). :) LOL circle, no one ever bothers to take any of my images either. ;) SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

3ncryptable3_lick, all I have to say is what was said already. There is nothing stopping me from performing any action whatsoever - murder, stealing, bribery, plagiarism, you name it. Ah, but there is something that exists in most people which acts to dissuade the pursuit of such actions. It's a built-in "empathy" which guides our actions for the good of our species, our close group, and ourselves (not always in that order) - usually denoted as conscience. As sentient beings, we have codified these built-in responses and actions as laws and rules. Therefore, just because one can do something, doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do. Just because most people don't have a sign on their door that says "tenants only - no trespassers" doesn't give one the right to enter their premises. Why? If you answer this, then you know why copying other people's artwork without permission and displaying without permission is wrong and illegal. BYS

Attached Link: http://www.arielsdreams.com/

SnowS: I was actually suggesting getting rid of the print screen function in the browser as well! :) Yes....it would be bit extreme, but eliminating those functions is one way to prevent this theft. I don't want to beat a dead horse, hogwarden, but FYI, Ariels Dreams is still there. The only difference is that now, in order to access the gallery, you have to have a password :) You can't see the thumbs without it, so there is no way to know what the images are behind the thumbs. There is, however a new disclaimer at the bottom of the page that states: "To have your tastefully created work staged here, please contact anthony.lang@arielsdreams.com. All art is displayed with the express written/emailed permission of the artist."

the only two sets in the gallery I see are Creations By Fatale: with a link here and Creations By Magician: link to a german site.

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

BekaVal, disabling right-click is no protection whatsoever if the downloader in question has almost any sort of graphics program. Most of them feature a screen capture function which can be set to start via hot keys. Or barring that, a simple print screen will do the trick. Basically copy-and-paste. There really is no sure-fire way to protect 100% of the time; though it may sound trite, where there's a will there's a way.

hmm... i can't even get to the site now... i'm curious though... can anyone verify for me that images were actually hosted on that site? i gather this to be the case after reading through this thread but really would like to confirm as i have yet to be able to determine where the b/w theft from my site is hailing from and i can guarantee i'm experiencing it based on reports and the way the pages are written... everyone who banded together on this to get things removed and to help look after fellow 'sity-ers, thank you!!! ~K.

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com

I'm Sylvie B., webmaster of Image-in-air3D. I'm really sorry that my site created so many debates:):) I clarify however that all the present artists on Image-in-air it are with their agreement. Besides, as a result of a mail which I received yesterday, I added this in front of the pages of every artist: Please, read the text at the bottom of each of page, concerning copyrights. I also added, to the already existing copyright, this: Rights of representation for the only purposes of personal and private consultation. " I think of having made the necessities to make understand that, in spite of I tell how to register images, this is possible only in the only purpose to have a beautiful bottom of personal screen.:)

Here we are, I understand perfectly your anxieties, but never I would allow to put creations of artists on my site without having asked for permission of their authors. I'm myself a creator of images 3d (SylvieB92 here, in Bryce and Poser galleries) and I would not love that somebody steals me my images.
Thank you to Linda and to Leah to have rectified this error:)
Warmly in all and... lol... it's very likely that I shall ask to other artists if they wish that I open them a gallery on Image-in-air3D, it in the future:):)
I'm above all a passionate person of 3D, I created this site only in the only purpose to make known this fantastic art in French through the creations of the best international artists. This without any lucrative purpose. On the contrary even, because this site costs me much money... but... when one loves one doesn't count isn't it???:)
And sorry for my bad English.
Kisses of France to all!:):)
Sylvie.

Mlevans, I know that there's no way to totally barr saving an image that is on the screen. It can only be made harder or more uncomfortable by disabling the right click. I'm with SnowSultan, hoping that will never happen. I think everybody saves from time to time artwork of other people to his HD to enjoy, to view them again or to learn from them. It would be a shame when this form of admiring and sharing of art will be destroyed because some people disuse it. It would not stop these people, because they will know how to circumvent protections. It would only annoy or discourage the upright people.

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com

Any manners, even by not writing this, everybody can register an image with IE which them lets know with a small window. And, openly, I don't see where is the evil to have a creation of artist in bottom of personal screen. I'm personally happy to know that my images please and are in homes of unknown people, on condition, naturally, that these is used only in this only purpose. I think very sincerely that, if one doesn't want that this happens, it's simply preferable not to post anything anywhere and to keep what one makes for oneself. On it, I close the discussion which, in my humble opinion, goes a little bit too much far for a case as mine where everything is made to limit damages. I made this site in a very honest way. There will be always critical spirits of any manners. And then, I'm sure that many authors of images 3D are very happy to find sites as mine which offer to them gracefully to present their works. Let us reflect a small moment about this, do you want? Because this is above all a recognition of the realized work. Although it is it, I don't have anything to me to blame in the way of which I made my site. And I still thank these fabulous artists who allow me to live my passion until the end. Besides, do you think that Renderosity, or quite other site of 3d all over the world known, accessible to all, proposing thousand images, doesn't allow, with IE or the other one, to download these images? Whoever, with a minimum of computer knowledge, is capable of making it. And, sincerely, if it's in a personal purpose, I don't see where is problem. For me, this debat is closed...:) Kisses:) Sylvie.

I just saw Fatale's images on their site and will post an IM to Fatale to make sure that he is aware that this is happening. Can I suggest that if you see someone's images on this site and they have not responded to this Thread - can you drop them a note to let them know! Thanks so much! The worst crime against an artist is theft of his/her artwork! ladynimue

Just sent an IM to Magician to let him know that his images are also featured on this site. ladynimue

http://www.arielsdreams.com/images/gallery/ while doing a gallery search - the only two Artist's Galleries I can find on the site are Fatale's and Magician SO hopefully all of your hard work paid off! ladynimue

Thanks, ladynimue :) just gotten your IM. They did contact me, and I did give them permission to display my images as long as they link to my store and gallery, which they did.. as long as they dont start selling any of my art (which I place here in r'osity for free fun), I'm fine with it.

Over the years I've given several people permission to display various images of mine. But I've had to tell them to PROMINENTLY say that the images are used by permission so the image police don't get on their case. Unfortunately the Image Police harrass them anyway. Folks, we have to be a little careful. Yes, there are abuses, but that's no excuse to presume guilt over innocence.

Thanks so much for responding Fatale - You know what a huge fan I am of your works and I am glad that there was no theft involved with your gallery.

I agree with you Spit - "no excuse to presume guilt over innocence" However in this case, since so many members Did Not give permission - I thought it wise to contact those Rosity Members whose images were still posted to the above mentioned site. I also stated in my message to the artists that if the artist Had Given Permission to disgrard the message. Better to be knowing than not! ladynimue

SylvieB, I don't think most of the discussion is about your site, but about the other one. Linda White cleared things up where you are concerned. Everyone now knows you ask before posting images. And thanks for clarifying the language on your site. I think that will be a big help :)

Attached Link: http://www.image-in-air3d.com

Thank you Sandoppe, I apreciate a lot your message:):)

Yesterday Anthony contact me and he asked me if he can post some images from me at his page and I could have a look in this gallery. Found only images from my friend Fatale in it at this time. I gave him the permission to do that. It seems that Anthony is a loyal man. I don't know what happened before till ladynimue send me a message (Sent 6/7 13:06). Magician

Not to excuse anyone or anything, but EVERY SINGLE IMAGE YOU VIEW ONLINE IS DOWNLOADED TO YOUR COMPUTER! If it wasn't you couldn't SEE it. Gee.... peeps.. no need to ban right clicks, print screen (not even possible) or anything else. The images are allready downloaded to your "temporary Internet Files" (I have no idea what it's called on a Mac but likely something similar) This does not allow you to USE those pictures of course, but if I see some great pic online NOTHING or NOONE can prevent me to use it as a desktop wallpaper if I choose to do so. Now I'm vain enough to only use me own images for my desktop L but in theory I could use any Rosity image as such. And noone would know. And I bet noone would REALLY care. IF they do so, the they should not post pictures online at all. Please let's not get carried away with paranoia. Some people download the pictures just becourse they want to look at something PRETTY! Why not feel flattered instead of pissed off? (Now I'm NOT talking about SELLING other people's stuff ir pretending to be the creator of it, mind you) But as long as people say where they've got it and provides a name/link I just don't see there's any harm done. On the contrary: Your art are being more widely known. Free advertizing so to speak. But that's just me. Prolly becourse I've never had any pictures featured anywhere but in my own gallery. Perhaps I'm just jaloux? :o)

I don't have a problem at all with ppl downloading my images and using them for deskops and whatnot.. what I DO have a problem with is ppl putting them on their websites without asking me first and seemingly trying to make money of them. But I guess that's just little old paranoid me.

I think the whole point here is of ownership!

After all your art is an extension of your creativity - of your inner self - of your artistic soul!

You are very correct in saying that once you post your artwork online that anyone can download it. Which is not "That Different" than your images being featured in a magazine or book - Anyone can remove the images - frame them and use them for their own enjoyment!

However, it is against the law to take an image from a book, reproduce it and reprint in a book you are publishing - without the approval of the owner of the artwork!

This is where the paradox begins!

It is one thing to say Yes you can view my image for your own enjoyment From a Web Site that I have Approved the image to be featured!

It is very different to have someone take a Whole gallery [or even a single image] post it to their site Without the artist permission. (and in some cases even claiming ownership of that artwork!)

Why is this a problem you asked? Well for one thing - what if your images were posted on a site that you did not approve of. What if they used your images on a site that promoted views that you did not believe in? Or Material that you did not think proper!

Also, what if the person said they Owned your images, because they were posted on their site? That they had a right to distrubute your images and make a profit? It is all about ownership of your creation!

That is why our copyright laws came into being! To protect your creativity! I for one think that art-theft is getting out of hand! We are seeing more and more of this every day. Not sure if it is because of the easy access of the web or just a change in attitude!

However - It is so easy to just email an artist to ask their permission to use their artwork! And I would guess that in most cases the artist would not only grant permission, but be flattered that someone was interested in their talent!

Once you stand by and let anyone just take something without permission - the world reverts to chaos!

Some rules - like the copyright laws are here for your protection - not to limit people from viewing your artwork - but instead to give the freedom of artists to post their work to allow others the pleasure of viewing!

ladynimue

You hit it right on the nose, ladynimue. As the old cliche goes - possession is 9/10ths of the law. And in the case of one's artwork, the creator possesses it and has certain (internationally recognized) rights concerning its use, distribution, and display - no matter how easily it can be acquired by others. Again, just because you can do a thing does not mean that it is legal to do it. ernyoka1, I was going to mention that everything (except server-side scripting and certain streaming media) is downloaded to your computer for web browsing. But this copying, again, is covered by many laws which restrict what you can do with it. This is close to a EULA, in that you can install an application, but cannot lend it to your friends, sell it, etc. Any data copied to your computer that is copyrighted still falls under copyright law (period). In this case, the agreement is that you can view the material but cannot use it in any other way without permission from the creator of it. The internet started with free-exchange at its core (ArpaNet and exchange of research documents and information between colleges, universities, and such). Once it entered the public domain and then the business domain, this free-exchange has opened up a pandora's box of legal indeterminants. The internet crosses national boundaries, where laws vary from one nation to another. What the web needs is several levels of encryption (PGP or similar) depending upon the material being served - free, protected, secure. If data to be only viewed (and not copied, saved, or used otherwise) were protected, most of this would not be happening. BYS

Geezz, I've always been a great admirer of your works and one day I thought it would be a great idea to support you by making a gallery to showcase your art. Seeing that they were freely downloadable on the internet the need for permission was not clear to me. Perish any and all thoughts about the sale of any works of any kind. This was never even a faint consideration. Only to drive customers to the artist sites and to feel I was supporting you in some small way. Grand swooping apologies to all and please keep up the good work. Tony Ariel's Dreams webmaster

Contact Anthony. Here his original statement send me in a mail actually: "I only posted the images without realizing that I had to first ask since they seemed to be freely available on the internet for download. So I placed the images and the links to the artists site." Maybe it could contribute for a clearing. Nevertheless I wrote Anthony, that he should delete all my images - I gave him the permission first - in his gallery and he did it quickly. It was my decicion first of all in solidarity to the artists and my friends here a Renderosity.

Ok I think we have gone as far as we can with this discussion :) Anthony, it is clear that your intentions were good. I must also thank you for removing the Renderosity images from your site when members asked you to! Hopefully you can see after reading this thread how important it is to first ask an artist before posting their works. Lets just chaulk this up to a learning experience and call it a day :) Thanks to everyone for posting their thoughtful and constructive comments. ladynimue Poser Moderator

Hey everyone -
Seems rather Ironic that by trying to avoid problems it has only caused more. Sigh,

Anyway - I have re-opened this thread as I believe if anyone wishes to continue this discussion it can be done in the same civil, thoughtful and contructive manner as before.

Please accept my apologies to those members who had more to say on this subject - all that is asked is that your comments remain constructive and within the TOS.

Thanks for your understanding
Sincerely,
ladynimue
Poser Moderator

I made a comment about this thread being locked for no apparent reason because I did have something to add. At this point enough time has gone by, and I'm irritated enough, that I almost don't see the point. My point in bringing the subject up, however, is that there isn't anything in this thread that even merits a warning to stay within the TOS. As a member, I resent this site controling discussions that are no where near TOS violations. There is nothing wrong with healthy debate. Attempting to stop something before it gets to a TOS violation point is understandable in theory but in reality it's treating members like children.
This is not personal to any of the moderators. They are doing a fine job in my opinion. But please wait until a definite violation has occured (and I don't mean healthy debate) before even issuing a warning please.

...... Kendra

Actually such semi-patronizing statements as the one from deemarie is the ones that would justify a locked thread. As Kendra clearly stated TIME HAS GONE BY and what would have been approproate to add 3 days ago may not be so today. It is not so much this thread in particular as the IDEA of locking threads "just becourse" that made some people - including me - feel like we were children uncapable of seeing what to say when. so there... :o)

My comment To Kendra was Not Patronizing At All - I was truly interested in Kendra's opinions on this subject... Shrug. Sorry you took it any othter way :( ladynimue

This is the statement that was posted above - Just so you know that I Truly Was Not Patronizing Kendra - In her thread in the Forum News she indicated that she had more input on the subject to this thread ... "Please accept my apologies to those members who had more to say on this subject - all that is asked is that your comments remain constructive and within the TOS." ladynimue

Oh but I didn't refer to YOUR statement ladynimue. I hope you didn't took it that way. It was not at all what I meant. But this shows how easily things can get misunderstood here. Partly due to having a lot of members where english is not our native language. :o) Personally I was going to add some brilliant remark when I found the thread locked, but my state of Teflon-brain effectively prevented me from remembering WHAT, at the time where the thread was reopened L Sdet var nok ikke svigtigt alligevel G

Well, I'll add a politically incorrrect statement to the mix. I'm truly annoyed by people who think browsers should prevent image grabbing. As if people's artwork is the only thing on the web. It is so narrow-minded and chauvinistic. There, I said it.

I don't think image grabbing is the problem! Unauthorised image grabbing is more the problem but only when the items grabbed are used to give others credit, financial rewards etc.... I don't mind people taking my stuff from the net (although I have nothing worth taking, still learning the ropes) I would mind if someone came into my house grabs one of my paintings off the wall and then go and hang it in their home. I can see were people are coming from in I do feel for them, I don't like to see this sort of thing happen but unfortunately it does. Truth is, post it on the net and no matter what steps you take to protect it, it will be grabbed by someone. Try to secure it too much someone will find it a personal challenge just to grab the item. Boot on the other foot, how many of you have gone to an art gallery with your camera?

Setting the record straight, I took nothing personal. I simply commented on something I felt was wrong. Nothing personal meant, nothing personal felt. :)

Image grabbing on the net will not end. It's that simple. But there are some sites that do display artwork with the artists permission and we should be careful how we approach someone if we don't know the facts. One person contacted me about their site and displaying specific types of images and it's done so well that I'll even email him when I have new images he can display.

But this: www.jonathonart.com/saddam.html
is a real eye opener. (link from Poser Pros) Your copyright can be violated at any time in places where you can't touch the person for it. I would imagine that web images aren't easy to use in this way but it still makes sense to either paste COPYRIGHT all over your images or don't post them. Too bad those are the only safe choices.

...... Kendra

If you would like to get a first hand take on what happened wih Saddam and Jonathon . . . - Please check out Issue 4 of the Renderosity Magazine - vshane {Vicki Shane} [One of the magazine's staff writer's is doing a series on Famous Artists] She interviewed Jonathon Earl Bower for Issue 4 of the Magazine. It's a very exciting article and Jonathon goes into depth about his stolen image, also his take on digital art. Issue 4 Article Painting from Poetry - artist Jonathon Earl Bowser by vshane (Vicki Shane) - Page 52. ladynimue

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Recognize any of these images????

Quote from Rhi's post :