Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=417186&Start=1&Artist=Sambucus&ByArtist=Yes

I was glad to see ICM (congrats, by the way) has given the OK for postwork in the June challenge. It seems to me that just lately there has been a move against postwork, both in the challenges and in the gallery, where the artist may proudly point out that none was used. It seems to be lumped along with object importation in the challenges as a means of restricting the artist to pure Bryce, but whereas using someone else`s models may seem a copout to some,(but not me, coz I can`t model) surely the judicious use of Photoshop`s or PSP`s tools on a Bryce image only add to the learning process. I recently posted an image in my gallery depicting Don Quixote. I nearly didn`t post it because the Poser figures looked totally false, almost stuck on, but if you aren`t a whizz with the metaballs or 3Dstudio max, then you`ve got to go with Poser if you want people or animals in your pic. Anyhoo, I`ve just lashed out on PSP8 and messing around with the soft focus and other settings, plus using the pull brush to form the Don`s moustache and hair and a more relistic mane on Rocinante along with a few other tweaks I came up with somethng I was happy to post. (Could have been wrong, tho, cos the first comment killed it stone dead with an average, sob) My point is, postwork helped make the picture, IMHO, so why did I feel a little guilty using it, as if I had cheated? Should I have posted it in Mixed Media? But my friends are here, in Bryce. Photoshop was created for professionals, who`s first priority is a competent image, not purity of soul so I`ll try and copy them and continue with the filters and brushes. I suppose what I`m trying to say is that I`m trying to make pictures, not Bryce pictures. I`m not having a go at those who have made challenge restrictions in the past. It`s just a plea for leniency so I can join in, LOL. Neither am I trying to put myself forward as an expert at postwork, and to prove it there`s a link to the Quixote pic, if you feel inclined.

Nice scene, IMHO anything goes, the render engine is the basis, postwork is a part of the creation. Whatever it takes to achieve the the artists conception, so be it.

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple

Some people get snooty about postwork. Limiting postwork in the challenges from time to time isn't bad IMO because I think the challenges are a forum to improve ones technique. But, in the end, it's the final image that counts.

I don't have a problem with postwork either. If an image needs a little touch in PhotoShop or Psp to bring out it's full potential then why not. I think your image is lovely and it depicts the characters and story very well. Catlin

Like everyone has pointed out, postwork is just a part of the process. If you want to do pure Bryce, thats great, if you want some postwork, then why not. It can also save days of precious rendertime. Especially when using DOF or volumetrics. Instead of days (or weeks) of rendering, these can be added in an hour! I always do postwork of some sort in my pics. Simply because it enhances the quality of the work. One example attached. With and without postwork. Which one is the best...?

Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com

Handsdown, With!

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple

I'll add to this! :o) It's not that I'm again' it really. I don't for two reason...the first is simple. I don't really have access to any decent kind of program that I could do the postwork in. But, I like the challenge of trying to get the effect wanted without anything else. I guess, in that way, I would be called a purist. I can see that for me, it would depend on what effect I'm wanting to go for. Some will look better with postwork, some without. For the challenges here in the forum, I'm all for no postwork because I feel the idea of the challenge is to learn Bryce. I'm not trying to be snobby, it's just a personal feeling for me. And don't think I don't love what others do with postwork. I do and am envious at times! :o)

IMO, postwork is good. It's a tool, so why don't use it? I agree with sambucus, sometimes one even feels guilty if he uses it. And this I really don't understand. I use it in my pictures when I think they will be improved by the use of it, or when I want to avoid waiting six days to the render to finish, like Rochr just said. Two of my latest, the Interior Studies you appreciated so well (thanx again to all), were without postwork and I wrote it in the caption, but only *because* I was trying to demonstrate something to myself.

The above is an example. I used postwork to add the "misty/smokey/dreamy" feel, to motion-blur the metrotrain and to add the glow. Which one is better?

S.

couldn't have put it any better myself sambucus. and I believe all the images in this thread help prove your point.

Both are gteat pics, DC, but seem to be of a different genre. The first is very much an illustration while the other has more "emotion" if thats the right word. BTW, when I said some artists "proudly" make the point that no postwork was used, that wasnt meant of a criticism. I`ve just realised I made the same claim in my posting before the Don pic.

Gteat = Great,. I`m typing this in the dark.LOL

Of course, that's valid for me too, I don't have absolutely anything against who doesn't postwork her/his images. Just sometimes I feel exactly like you, Sambucus. S.

BTW, Rochr... you know that just looking at your doublepicture above is like reading a mini-tut, don't you? :)

At least now you know why i dont post clean renders... :)

Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com

If you don't want me to use postwork just give me a version of bryce that has all the advanced features that hollywood pros use, like radiosity, faster volumetric rendering and soft shadows, cloth dynamics, hair and fur, displaement mapping, bevels, advanced deformations, better clouds, better water, better atmospherics and better vegetation.:)

"An Example is worth Ten Thousand Words"

@Rochr: Frankly speaking, your "clean" version up above isn't that bad at all! It just rocks, IMO :) I prefer the postworked one, ok, but the first show off all the striking work. @max- : I can agree with you on most of the issues... so, let's say that the gap between our loved $79 app and those humongous $5000 ones could be filled by accurate postwork. Sounds like a great bargain, to me :) S.

Look I'm a noob to all of this, I don't create models with Bryce I use Wings 3d. I just like it better. So no my images will never be "pure Bryce". But to my limited thinking Bryce is a tool. So is Wings, so is PSP or whatever else program you use. I haven't done postwork yet, but after looking at the excellent examples in this thread it's "Oh great! Yet another thing to add to my Things To Learn How To Do list." Thanks yall! LB

"I am serious! And don't call me Shirley!"

I don't see why not. I've occasionally used postwork, mainly Corel Draw 8 (hey, if it's the same vendor, does that really count as postwork?..;). Main thing is lens flares or signeage..something that Bryce 5 doesn't do..but I'm holding out for 6..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

I understand the restriction against postwork in the software specific challenges. It levels the playing field just a little so that everyone is using the same tools. For gallery posting and art, however, it should be up to the artist what s/he uses to bring the vision to life. Tres

Fractals will always amaze me!

Postwork is simply another tool. It can often be used to improve images and that can only be a good thing. Some of my best images where worthless without postwork, but really came to life after I started playing with simple things like color and contrast and a bit of layering..

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12424&Form.ShowMessage=1206741

Try this link. This topic was discussed in the Art Theory forum & some good points were expressed.

Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing?

I completely understand why postwork has to be limited in our Bryce forum contests as it CAN be abused. After all it is a Bryce contest. I don't believe it has to be wiped out completely in the contest. However I do think that one should post work as much as desired in the galleries. I am a firm believer of postwork.

If postwork helps, by all means use it. Personally I've been afraid to use postwork after having spent countless hours arranging objects and lighting and importing from Poser to Bryce and all that. Any postwork would either be lost and have to be redone if I did any future rearanging, or I've locked all my objects into position permanently by adding postwork. It kinda scares me, so I've been trying to avoid the potential trouble I see there.

I used to think you where a better artist if you didn't need postwork, but slowly I started to go from brightness-contrast tweaking to color-tweaking, to layering and compositing and now I often use postwork to enhance my images. My old (twisted) view on postwork has now changed and I consider postwork as just another tool to make great images with effects that would be very hard to make directly in bryce.

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

Actually rendering with a computer is unnatural and unfair. We should render our images by calculating all raytraces by hand using nothing but paper and pencil.

"An Example is worth Ten Thousand Words"

:)

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.