jaybutton opened this issue on Jul 25, 2003 ยท 68 posts
jaybutton posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 5:09 PM
TrekkieGrrrl posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 5:16 PM
Am I the only one that doesn't think M3 looks like a MAN on that pic? Looks more like a V3 morph to me :o/
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Milla posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 5:21 PM
Yeah.. does look like V3 to me too!
Lucy_Fur posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 5:23 PM
More like androgynous - which is fine - the finer details of one person's view of manliness can be worked out w/the morphs :)
KarenJ posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 5:43 PM
If he looks less burly than M2, I'm all for it. I find it very difficult to make Mike into a slim guy with his built-in morphs.
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something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
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kuroyume0161 posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 5:54 PM
All that I have to say is that it looks like they are getting down to the nitty-gritty finishing M3. I have been waiting impatiently for this since the V3's release. YAY! Kuroyume.
C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the
foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg
off.
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wolf359 posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 6:00 PM
"He will also take advantage of morph injection technology just as Victoria 3.0 does. " ------------------------------------------------------------------------- OH well .. then count me out :-/
Staby posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 6:13 PM
I will wait to see a bigger image, maybe textured, but it looks that his hands are still too small, like with Michael 2... I hope it is not too late to correct that.
JoeyAristophanes posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 6:19 PM
Handsome, statuesque, fashion-model like And on that basis alone, I bet he comes with female morphs... :)
Spanki posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 6:42 PM
"Alright Tony, so what's done so far? TB: The base mesh/figure, joints, and JCM's. " What's missing in this picture? ....MORPHS I'm not sure this really gives much hope of any 'real soon now' time-frame, so I wouldn't start getting too excited ;).
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Poppi posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 6:49 PM
small as the pic is looks to me like he still has manboobs.
Spanki posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 6:55 PM
So.. so far, it looks lik we'll be getting a fem-faced, small-handed, man-boobed, unmorphable glam-guy with no textures yet... hmmmm. ;)
Cinema4D Plugins (Home of Riptide, Riptide Pro, Undertow, Morph Mill, KyamaSlide and I/Ogre plugins) Poser products Freelance Modelling, Poser Rigging, UV-mapping work for hire.
MachineClaw posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 7:12 PM
ummmm I dont have a problem with morph injection system, though my runtime is hitting that limit really quickly with just V3 and addons, M3 WILL send me over the limit, and that I'm concerned about. If this is addressed and V3 and M3 work side by side and give me room to breath, I can't wait to get him in my runtime. oh well, I'm just happy they put out an announcement.
Xena posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 7:26 PM
He doesn't have man-boobs. It's just the lighting of that image. He has actual pecs. And for anyone having limit troubles with your libraries, move all your MAT folders to the camera library, then go grab a freely available format changer and mass change the pz2's to cm2's. It works a treat. I don't have a single MAT file in my Pose library (but I change my format by hand - just fussy that way LOL)
estherau posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 7:28 PM
His wrists don't look as slim and girly to me as the V3 male and M2. I wonder when he'll be here, and if he'll be cold and naked like the V3 male for months and months with only tight fitting sci fi gear to warm him up. Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
PapaBlueMarlin posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 8:05 PM
Well, it looks that this time that they're trying to get the base figure as far from looking like Dan Farr as possible...
melanie posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 8:12 PM
Xena, great idea! I've heard people have done that, but I keep forgetting about it. My Pose library is so stretched, I can't even read the labels anymore. I don't think it'll hold Mike's injection morphs. It's just about maxed out now as it is. What format changers are available? Will P3dO do it? I have that, but I've never figured out how to do batches of files at once. Melanie
Xena posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 8:44 PM
Attached Link: http://www.1-4a.com/rename/
No offense to Dan, but is that a bad thing? LOL It's so hard to get rid of the 'Mike' look on Mike 1/2 (although I ADORE the Bishonen pack). It looks like getting rid of the Mike3 look won't be so hard :) Melanie, I have no idea if P3dO will do it. Probably will. It's a damned nifty program :D There are a couple of threads in here that discuss doing it and link to batch file proggies. Ohhh, just searched and found this ... http://www.1-4a.com/rename/ It does names, extensions (which we need) and whole name. Hope that helps :)
dirk5027 posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 8:44 PM
poppi the only male around here with man boobs is victor/victoria, looks like he/she had a bad masectomy.. a mans "boob" area is called pectorals
Xena posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 8:45 PM
And give thanks to Arcady, who found the link :)
estherau posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 9:00 PM
Is it actually just a matter of changing .pz2 to .cm2? or does something in the file itself have to be changed too? Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Xena posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 9:07 PM
Just that Esther :) I open the file in EditPad, use the Save As function and save it as xxx.cm2. Takes awhile to do an entire folder that way, which is why I suggested a batch proggie for the less patient :)
Poppi posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 9:09 PM
i got v3, but not the male morphs. it seemed like i could fix up everything about michael....his face, lol...but his ta tas defeated me, everytime.
pdxjims posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 9:27 PM
Poppi: His ta? What's a ta? Is it what I think it is? He does have a definite V3 face look, but that may not be a bad thing. He's less stocky than the base Mike 2 too. It'll give a nice range of figure types in a render (if P5 can handle the overhead). Injection posing is the way things have to go, but I don't like it much. On the other hand, the thing that really bothers me the most about the V3 male is the female joint parameters, and Mike 3 will have different and better ones. The real question as to how much we can get out of him is how long it'll take capsces to make a Boris set for him. When that happens, he's made it. Had everyone seen what she's doing for Koshini? Too cool. Now, when? Any idea of a timeline? Should we start a pool? I'm betting August 23rd. That's because it's the date I leave on a cruise with my father to Alaska for 7 days. It'll go on sale two seconds before I have to leave.
ragmanjones posted Fri, 25 July 2003 at 9:53 PM
If you move all your MATS to your camera folder, then the Camera Folder will get full. Then what? Morph Injection makes perfect sense. Who needs a character carrying a bunch of morphs they're not using at the time?! Just select what you want, and travel a lot lighter.
Patricia posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 12:21 AM
So, just typing .cm2 in place of .pz2 isn't enough? It has to be opened up in a text editor? I keep threatening to move my MATs, then I back down because I'm afraid I screw up :P
pendarian posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 12:53 AM
Patricia, all you have to do is change the file extensions from pz2 to cm2's it's really easy :)
Xena posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 1:12 AM
If your file extensions are showing in the folder, then yes you can simple change it from pz2 to cm2. But, if like me, you don't have extensions showing, you can do it in a text editor like I said above :)
Ms_Outlaw posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 1:14 AM
When I got poser five I thought cool, now I can have a nice neat runtime. The pose directory won't be a dogs breafast of clothes morpths, poses, etc... then I got Vic 3... can't even stuff all the vic 3 stuff in it's own directory or it won't work (least for me) I don't think I'll rush out and get m3. I also didn't like that when I bought her, she's useless without the injection stuff which I find a real pain at times. I admit she's nice when you get everything worked right, but I spend all my time looking for stuff. Okay, nobody asked, but that rant been building. I'm fine now...
MachineClaw posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 1:33 AM
pdxjims your bet is Aug 27? the newsletter said expect soeming for platinum members next week, sort of the same sales pitch they said for V3. My bet is Aug 2 for M3, then the mimic vouchers wont work and I'll have to pay more hahaha. xena, thanks for the info on the camera folder, I'm gunna have to start doing that, my files are all over the place quite messy even with Poser 5.
Xena posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 2:02 AM
You can use the Face folder for your MATs as well :)
Simderella posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 6:11 AM
What i do to stop my pose library getting bogged down is have several pose libaries, I put all the stuff I want to use at the time or use frequently in the main pose folder and move the stuff i don't use that much to a folder called Pose2, and so on... and if i'm working on a project i move only the stuff I will need to the main pose folder, then its just a simple case of when i want something moving to the main pose folder or renaming one of the other folders back to just 'Pose' ... That works for me and its fairly easy and less time consuming, also makes poser load faster!! You could do the same to any of the library folders that are getting too full, or so full that t takes you ages to scroll through to what u want!! Hope that helps -SimderZ- xXx
RHaseltine posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 6:13 AM
You can use the command prompt (Win XP) or DOS prompt (Win 9x) to rename. Open it, if Poser is not on your C: drive type the letter for the drive it is on followed by a colon (eg d:) and hit return Type cd ", open your Pose folder or Camera folder (depending on whether or not you've already moved the MAT files) and drag the folder whose contents you wish to rename to the prompt window - the full path will appear - type another " and hit return again. Type REN *.PZ2 *.CM2, hit return, and the folder is done. Repeat.
Simderella posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 6:16 AM
Oh and so far I like the look of M3, I rarely use M2, because he's very uninspiring, and takes to long, if i can do it at all to make him look un-mike like.. hehe I would much prefere i less beefy mike, and a prettier mike.. grin Although at the mo' I think V3 male is very very good... But it can never shake the feeling that its just Vicky in a 'man-suit' LOL.. it would be kewl to have an actual kewl male! And yes, I agree I hope he comes out with some decent clothes, along the lines of the Uzilite stuff!!... cuz endless reems of sci-fi/fantasy clothes and of course undies, is ok for a start, but when that all you get, I;d rather keep him nude than put a poor guy in lon cloth or a spandex catsuit, thats one step away from giving him a sword, and sorry folks, just can't go there... hehehe wink
rasputina posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 8:21 AM
I like what is shown so far in the image, I love M2, but the pecs and the general beefiness aren't ideal. Looking forwards sto seeing more M3 images.
melanie posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 8:48 AM
Thanks, Xena, I'll check it out. pdxjims, that's called Murphy's Law! My whole life is governed by that law, it seems. LOL Patricia, that's what I'm a little hesitant about too, but I suppose if you make a copy of it first, do the changes and see if it works, then don't delete the originals until the cm2's pan out first. Or keep the originals on a CD as backups so they can be plugged back in, just in case. I think that's what I'll do. Melanie
melanie posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 9:01 AM
You know, I just noticed something here. When we were given a sneak preview of Vicki 3, it was in a screen shot of DAZ Studio and she was fully textured. Why do we get an untextured render of Mike 3 as our first preview? That's nto fair to Mike. Let's see what a real picture of him looks like. Everyone thinks this looks like a V3 male just because of that. I'd like to see him fully textured with hair, like they did with V3, so we can get a better idea of what he really looks like. Oh, and as for the beefiness of Mike 2, that's the reason I often use the P4 version of him, becuase he's slimmer and less pumped up with excess muscle. I'm a gal who doesn't really care for the muscle-bound hulks. I like my guys slimmer. And Poser World has a lot of clothes that fit him. Melanie
elizabyte posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 10:47 AM
I'm wondering about M3's genitals. M1 and M2 are both rather, uhm... generously endowed. I've seen a lot of naked men in my lifetime and I've never seen any that are proportioned like that in a relaxed state (maybe there are a few out there, but it's NOT the norm by any means). Anyone remember that Seinfeld episode where George goes on about having been in cold water and the 'shrinkage' factor? Uhm, yeah. I also have always been a bit annoyed that if you try to pose an unclothed Michael on his side, his genitals look quite unnatural and you can't easily pose them/him so that he looks like, well, a normal nude male lying on his side. And just why is he circumcised by default? The majority of men in the world are NOT circumcised. Shouldn't there be a morph for that instead of having surgically altered by default? Reading back over this, it looks like I'm obsessed with Michael's genitals, hehehe. I don't actually think about it all that much, but when you do try to do a nice nude Michael render you find out this stuff pretty quickly, and it's annoying. DAZ, I hope you're listening... ;-)
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
doozy posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 12:26 PM
morph injection technology <<< That's the crosstalk thingie, right?
KateTheShrew posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 12:59 PM
Well, I got V3 and found her to be totally unusable because of that stupid injection crap. Sooo...I'm not even going to bother with Mike 3. Learned my lesson the first time. Spending all your time wading through folders looking for morphs just takes all the fun out of poser completely. At least it does for me. Especially when all I want to do is make her smile or maybe wink. With V3 poser use becomes a chore instead of a joy. No thanks. Mike 3 will NOT be on my "must have" list. Kate
Patricia posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 1:06 PM
In the beginning, the morph injection business threw me for a loop, but now it's just routine...a way to keep file size down, while still using a hi-res model. Without it, Mike3 would be so huge that you would need far more computer than I have to do a lot of morphing on him and still be able to build a complex scene around him. What about it don't you like, Kate?
KateTheShrew posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 1:40 PM
What I don't like about it is that it's just work, work, work. By the time I find all the morphs I need/want, I'm too frustrated to even want to do any posing so I go read a book or something instead. The whole injection system just sucks all the fun right out of poser. Trying to create a character with V3 is, for me, the equivalent of scrubbing toilets or giving my car a tune-up. Just another chore that has to get done and something I would happily live my life without ever doing if I could. So, I've gone back to V2 where everything isn't so complicated and energy draining. I can actually create a new character in minutes instead of days and that frees up more time to actually DO something with the character. V3 just makes me want to delete Poser from my computer, shut the whole system down and go watch a movie or read a book and forget about rendering anything at all. She's WORK instead of play/creativity.
Caly posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 2:13 PM
The thumbnails for each pose injection are pretty clear. You can save a V3 in your library that has your favorite morphs already injected in. It actually saves a lot of time- you spend less time scrolling down this huge lists of morphs you'll never use...
Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com
Patricia posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 2:49 PM
I have a Vicki3 in my Characters Library that has all the head morphs injected, so that I can dive right in and sculpt the face that I have in mind without searching and waiting. The body, I always do last and seem to use fewer morphs on, so I do take the time to pick and choose which ones I want. But I can understand that you'd find it irritating--the most annoying thing to me about V3 is the lag time between when I click and when Poser responds. I tell myself that it's good for me to practice patience and try to think of it as my Zen moments for the day...all zillion of them ;)
JoeyAristophanes posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 4:56 PM
When we were given a sneak preview of Vicki 3, it was in a screen shot of DAZ Studio and she was fully textured. Why do we get an untextured render of Mike 3 as our first preview? I can think of a few reasons off hand, mostly having to do with the way M2 was released.
wolf359 posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 5:03 PM
MachineClaw posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 5:12 PM
errr I think that they HAVE listened to the community as much of a change as V3 was, M3 is going to be from the looks of it. I'm sure there as there is Massive Mike for M2, there will be Hulky M3. gunna be fun to play with.
las_61 posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 5:44 PM
Attached Link: http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/cr1/ezxtn.html
http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/cr1/ezxtn.htmlHere's a link to a really simple and good batch renamer. I use it all the time.
hmatienzo posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 6:47 PM Online Now!
Gotta say, I don't mind the Michael-look too much! I always thought Dan was rather cute... ;-) This Mike3 doesn't even look like a man!
L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.
Caly posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 7:27 PM
I think Dan's cute too, but I'm also willing to bet that M3 will come with a ton of manly hulky morphs. ;)
Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com
dirk5027 posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 7:55 PM
thank you for that comment wolf359, I want that model !!!!
lobo75 posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 9:02 PM
Well far be it from me to say anything of importance around here, but on another site i go tot someone who has seen actual pics of the M3 claims that most cynics will be more surprised by what M3 has to offer and will see a clear difference between the V3 male look and the M3 look. Lets not jump the gun based off of one lil picture.
SimonWM posted Sat, 26 July 2003 at 11:08 PM
lhiannan posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 12:28 AM
Granted, out of the box M2 is a hulking brute... but with some work (yeah, work... I didn't spend my money just to point and click), you can get anything from giants to skinny gothy coffeehouse geeks. They made Stephanie out of Mike's mesh, ya know?
The male morphs for V3 were originally an "easter egg" sort of thing, then people wanted MORE MORE MORE! and when they get MORE MORE MORE, they whine whine whine...
And wolf359, I see you post that pic everytime the question of a "more manly man" comes up... I bet I could recreate that face in Poser and if I could find a really cool space suit... The more I look at it, the less impressed I get... The suit and texture is beyond amazing, but that's about it.
I'm sorry, but if you open a coloring book and box of crayons, the crayons don't jump up and start coloring. If you want to create something worthwhile, something beyond look at these things I bought!!, you're going to have to put a little bit of effort into it.
Image is M2 with his own built in morphs.
MachineClaw posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 1:27 AM
I agree, I keep seeing that suit posted but on closer look at the picture, which does not apear to be wolf's rather someone elses, the face does not even have eyes, there are no knees well something of knees but still. amazing suit though, love to see what else the guy has done, or if it's a model that can be bought. though it's a rather poor example of what a male model should look like, because you can't see the model inside the suit. With M3 I'm particularly intested in the joint improvements that we have seen in V3, this alone will help make the renders look more real. As daz learns more and sees more of what the community does with their models they have always stepped it up a notch with the next release. I'm sure that when the smoke clears and M3 is in runtimes the proof will be in the renders that M3 will be an improvement over M2. I use Judy, V2, V3 depending on what clothing, options I need for a render, it will probably be the same with M3, still use dork, Don, M2 and M3 will just be more spice and options to my artist tools.
brynna posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 1:53 AM
Attached Link: http://mfr.queryweb.com/
A batch file renaming program I've been using for a long time now is Magic File Renamer. Version 3.00 Release 2 never expires and works great.Brynna
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Milla posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 3:44 AM
I'd just like to say I agree whole-heartedly with Wolf359. I'm really not interested in the cross-gender anomalies either!
wolf359 posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 7:31 AM
Xena posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 7:51 AM
I don't think Daz is ignoring anyone, and you shouldn't say they are unless you know. Michael 3 as a base needs to be more 'nothing' than either rugged or fem, purely because it's easier to morph from a flat base than from something like Michael 1/2 which is already manly looking. And that model would be more impressive if it was setup up and rendered in Poser. Now that takes some serious work!
RHaseltine posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 8:31 AM
Perhaps DAZ could include alternative JP settings with M3, so that both slim and broad shouldered versions posed nicely. After the V2->V3 conformers we should be able to cope, and if there were just a couple of "official" options merchants might, perhaps, just possibly, support them. (I didn't buy Bishonen, but I seem to recall he had his own joint settings so that Mike clothing didn't work directly? That's what promted this suggestion.)
melanie posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 8:51 AM
Masculinity is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone has his or her own idea of what a real man is, same as with the female characters. I, for one, am sick and tired of blimp sized boobs on the women, that need a fork lift for a bra. To me, that's not a real woman. I like gentlemen, not brutes. But that's my psersonal preference, I don't believe that it's the epitome of masculity, nor is the brute, it's just my preference. As with everything in art, it's all subjective. There's no real right or wrong as far as people's looks are concerned, both male and female. I think Mike 3 should start out as a very generic figure that can be morphed in all directions. If you want Mr. Universe, great, if you want a waif-like elfin boy, also great. But M3 should be able to do it all, not just one or two looks that seem to be popular. Since I'm in the older group of members here (age-wise), I would personally like to see some middle-age or mature gentlemen come out of Mike 3, besides just buff young warriors. I look at people like Harrison Ford or Richard Geer and think it would be nice to have something on that order in Poser, besides just the muscle-bound wrestler types or comic book superheros. Melanie
Jim Burton posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 10:39 AM
I agree with Xena, and let me say from a standpoint of building clothing it is MUCH better to bulge it out than to try and pull it in evenly. Most of his morphs should go outward, in other words. I've already done a couple of characters that have a pose to move joint centers around, and even change joint parameters, I don't see any problem with that if he really needs wider shoulders for some super bodybuilder type (or whatever). Do real-life bodybuilders actually change their joint centers, though? ;-) I may do a set for Mike III, BTW! If so it will be my first ever male clothing set!
SimonWM posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 12:49 PM
Granted, out of the box M2 is a hulking brute... >> M2 a hulking brute??!! Not at all, lhiannan. The image in your post looks extremely femenine. To me it doesn't says masculinity at all, he looks like a little girl. The only masculine traits are his eyebrows but then there are women with eyebrows like that too. I'd like to know what's the use of Mike 3 for people who want to make him look that effeminate. I would think Vicky 3 would be a better template for that type of work. There is absolutely no way to do hulking fantasy characters with huge arm and feet joints with Mike or Vicky3 male morphs without getting a lot of mesh tears and loosing lots of muscular definition, that's what I'd like to see Mike 3 be able to do.
lobo75 posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 3:31 PM
4 Melanie. Even older men can be hot.
Lucy_Fur posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 6:38 PM
Wolf - I did not mean androgynous as a preference on how a man looks - I mean androgynous as a blank slate/canvas with which to customize M3 with whether it be a monstrous, hulking testosterone guy or a cave-dwelling, malnourished, spindly little geek. ;) As ever, to each their own, but I like the idea of a bland piece of clay. G
wolf359 posted Sun, 27 July 2003 at 10:07 PM
Im, all for a blank slate as long as they dont waste polygon space with "girl" morphs that are better acheived with vicky and give us some realistic hulking brute morphs :-)
DraX posted Mon, 28 July 2003 at 1:18 AM
Let me just add to this conversation, from a standpoint as one of DAZ's brokered artist's that as Jim and Xena eluded, many of you will end up QUITE happy with this figure. Like V3, M3 presents a lot morepossibilities in just the mesh alone that virtually any type of character can be created. (Never underestimate the versatility... remember the Ogre made from Victoria's mesh?, or Stephanie made from Michael's?) I will have to agree with Jim on the issue of building clothing as well.... Michael 2 was difficult to build new clothing for and properly morph it due to it's bumps and ridges (musculature, mainly)... A smoother mesh will make the process much easier.
lhiannan posted Mon, 28 July 2003 at 9:51 AM
SimonMW, you just proved my argument, thank you... The whole point of building the character I posted was that M2 can look less burly... I wanted to build a child of him and get rid of the "Mike" look. I want all the versatility I can get out of a mesh. And I probably won't be using V3 for men once I get M3... Like I said, V3 wasn't advertised as a gender-bender, people just wanted that. DAZ does indeed try to give their customers what they want.