Alright guys ..what do YOU think should be done? Issue: we have a Poser Forum and a Product Showcase. The merchants do not feel that enough people view the Showcase. The Poser Forum (in general) does not want the ads back in the forum. How do we get more people to the Showcase? Or conversely, do we feel it is a good idea to mix another 50+ posts a day into the already crowded Poser Forum? Lyrra the Migrained

I think the good point about having a separate forum for the ads is that they don't annoy anyone. Right now, the showcase forum is like a catalogue to browse through. If we had ads in the forum, they should at least be marked with a special color, otherwise it'd become too confusing. I'm already a selective reader and decide by topic wether to read a thread or not. With an additional 50+ posts a day in which I most of the time don't have any interest (sorry, I haven't spend a single cent here, I only download and upload free stuff), I don't think I'd enjoy this forum as much as I do now.

How do we get more people to the Showcase? Some how make it's existance and purpose better known (newsletter etc.)to all old & new members. Let people know the difference between "What's New", the Forum & Product Showcase. New folks arrive every day. Maybe a "Welcome" and "Site Orientation" email to new members, which explains the purpose and links to each area would help. Just a few thoughts :- )

Would it be possible to implement another flag, like the nudity flag, lets call it, say 'advert'. If the were an option in your profile to hide 'advert' threads, you could choose to see them or not. Would only work if the merchants would agree to set this flag for adverts.

Give people an incentive to go to the Product Showcase, e.g. give them a voucher for a 25% discount on the product of their choice after 25 or 50 visits. In addition, use Product Showcase to allow people to make requests for products they would buy. If there's already a product wishlist somewhere else, why not combine the two functions?

The ad flag idea that we brought up in previous threads seem to be popular. Lyrra, you may have also noted my post in one of the other threads about being able to see the latest discussions in the product showcasevia the header of the Poser forum, as a means to drive more traffic there.

Try giving it a more prominent position in the forum header for a month or two, then if that fails the extra flag would be OK (but that means paging through two more batches of 25 messages, so I'd rather not).

Oops, sorry. didn't realise a flag had already been suggested.

Nah, that's great Ian... shows that the idea is popular with a few people. I have one stipulation on the idea, myself... if people can flag ads to make them invisible, then the Product Showcase should show all topics flagged for commercial content, regardless of filter.

I'm a merchant. And I mean that it is a terrible bad way to annoy people with ads if they wouldn't notice somebodys products. The web is full of shit one can buy. Let the poser-people alone here in this forum, that's my point of view. I find that idea with a discount a good one. Because this can only be done by Rosity, I'll go a slidly different way. Soon I will post a product-note to the showcase. Whoever sends me the "password" found there get's a free gift after a regular buying.

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DraX, I agree. Good point. If I go into Product Showcase I want to see all the posts, whatever my flag is set too.

Not just that... I think the showcase should then show all comercial content from all forums... but that's just me.

DraX, OK. So if I go into Product Showcase I see all commercial posts from across the whole forum. That would be great! (you've thought about this haven't you) :-)

I was thinking about just putting a link in the banner to the showcase. Then I noticed there is one. It just doesn't stand out very much. Maybe if it was more prominent or had a "what's new" title every so often it would get more traffic.

I do believe that the Product Showcase Forum is supposed to be for/from all forums but with Poser having the highest number of MP items, inevitably that's what you're going to see the most of in the PSF & complaints from the Poser forum when/if they show up in there. Myself, I don't care. I have only a certain amount of time in a day and don't always cruise all the forums I would like. If I want to know what is new - I go to the MP link and hit 'What's New'. BUT, I think that the Showcase forum also contains posts from ppl who have items for sale in a place other then Renderosity - the forum banner info says 'The Showcase Forum and Gallery are intended for all commercial related postings within our community' but there are those other posts - which don't bother me either, I consider it kind of a help. I suggest an additional (image?) link in the Poser Forum banner to the Products Showcase Forum. No clicking of a flag to remember or worry about being flagged invisible and missing something you might actually wanna see. Then it's as simple (to me) as a lil blurb of html on the Poser forum banner instead of setting up another check field and/or viewing preference. There's a link from the Showcase forum to the Wishing Well, so why not? Might be a good thing to have in the banners of other forums as well.

You want to get more people into the Product Showcase Forum? SIMPLE! :) All products and free stuff announcements have to be put in the Product Showcase Forum. You can still ask where a free item is in the Poser Forum but you can't announce a new free stuff item in the Poser Forum.

Ugh - cross-posted w/Eric - who's post only showed that I just don't read. L Maybe that's a good thing tho - the Product Showcase Link just doesn't seem to stand out.

Alternately, a similar tactic as with the "copyright issues" threads could be adopted: post the info in the Product Showcase, then put a brief message in the Poser forum to the effect of: "Check Product Showcase for my new goodies! Replies on Product Showcase thread, please." That will reduce "Ad + 5-25 replies" to "Ad notice" alone, while ensuring that those who mostly haunt the Poser Forum don't miss anything.

How about this. A flag for advertisements that automatically sets a link to the Product Showcase forum, and closes the thread. So a merchant has a thread title, example, 'Mike3 wellington boots!', checks the advertisement flag, which results in a closed thread with a link (and a preview pic if they want to upload one) to the showcase forum. That way if people are interested in that item they have to go to the showcase forum to view the details. That way you could also set in your preferences whether to see adverts just like nudity and/or violence.

these people work hard on these products and should be able to put them into the potential buyers faces, anywhere they want to, more business for them is more business for rosity.. If these children don't like it posted in this forum, then simply don't click it. My word much ado about nothing (Let me get a hold of this place, you'd sure make a lot more money and have a lot happier members)

Why have the showcase forum anyway?

In my situation, heres why not. But I could care less either way.

I come home, go to renderosity. I first hit the galleries, Ill run through about 10 pages until I hit where I left off from my last log in.

Then I go to free stuff and see what has been added everyday since my last visit.

Then I go to the market place and do the same procedure as I did in free stuff. If theres something that catches my attention, I click on it and check it out.

Then I hit the forums and do the same process.

Now, I dont mind the product placing in the poser forum, as long as its NOT the same renders and description of the product I just looked at ten minuets ago. So if the merchants are going to advert their products, at least use a different render and description. If not, theres no real reason to have a product showcase, right? I just finished looking at the same picture a few minuets ago in the market place.

As a NEW merchant, I can see where there is some problem just getting my product known to the community.... Maybe if the staff (or some member who was willing to contribute the time) could do a survey of what's available in the different categories, there would be more interest. The other thing is, if I see someone directly asking about the very problem that my product solves, can't I tell them about it in a reply, or should I have to go to IM for that? I mean the reply might easily be useful to other members who have the same question.

I think a second tiny banner under the "Hot Products" one that leads to the Product Showcase would do nicely. Ads just clutter up the Poser forum, but it would be nice to have a noticable link to those postings for those interested. >>Let me get a hold of this place, you'd sure make a lot more money and have a lot happier members<< Haha, Doc Legume once said I should run this place too. :) You wouldn't want me to though, I'd move the Marketplace to a separate site and make sure everything here was free...like in the pre-Marketplace good old days. ;) Take care. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

dirk5027 - despite my own open opinion about where merchants can/should place posts for commercial items, I, and I'm sure a large number more, take acception to your choice of the word 'children' to paste onto those people who have a more fine-tuned estimation. It intimates that you feel these folk's point of view is immature, undeducated, or naive.

Your idea of simply not clicking on that type of post seems to me to be ignorant of the idea of how spam works - in that the subject line can be made to be misleading thus pulling people further in to find more information.

Some people are happy to read about any Poser within one forum - others want more separation. Like there already is with the Poser Python Scripting forum and the Poser Technical forum. However, the Product Showcase forum is supposed to cover the entire community.

I'm against flagging. We already have a Showcase Forum for commercial posts. This was to my view working very well until a couple of days ago when some people started to take the Michael. If you change anything just put a more prominent link at the top of the Poser Forum page. I go to the showcase forum when I want to read or make Commercial posts. I do not want a flag to turn on and then have to trawl through pages of what will then be mixed posts looking for the ones I want to read. Also, dirk5027, I am not a child. I find your remark insulting.

If you implement a flag AND keep the Showcase forum then the Poser Forum will be inundated with (flagged) "Go read my message in the Showcase forum" posts. This would get old really quick. It used to be called cross posting and was always frowned upon.

"these people work hard on these products and should be able to put them into the potential buyers faces, anywhere they want to"

I take offence to unsolicited advertising. The best way to get me to not buy something is to shove it in my face. I do not want the Poser Forum, flagged or otherwise to degenerate into nothing but spam. The other side of the coin is that I will not thrust my product notifications in inappropriate places. Commercial posts go in the Product Showcase Forum others go to the Poser Forum. Its not rocket science.

for development ads- request for help with up coming products ect...- the product show case ISN'T needed- thats what the private Merchants forum is for, in my opinion!!! if they want market research- post in the product showcase. Now- having said all this- I remember and liked the good ole days when the forums were wide open- never knew what ya would come accross :)

Not all Free stuff announcements have "no strings attached" when you have to go to there store to get it. What, you think they are advertising there free stuff just for the heck of it?

there = their sorry typo. :

Then it'd be called the Market Research forum, Ken ;) It's my understanding that the Products Showcase forum allows for more of a public announcement arena with further links and/or renders. And in my opine - if the totality of us could have carried on thread topics and stayed in focus/on-topic w/o it breaking down into non-productive babble (name calling, product bashing, etc.) then they wouldn't have instigated all these reins and ropes to keep all us wild and unruly folk in line ;) And we all know it was not the result of the mass, it was the result of the few (topics or ppl - take your favorite choice).

Hmm... Keep the products in the product showcase. Add a link to the top of the poser forum header for more visibility. You could always add a "WIP" or "Coming Soon" type forum for those who are doing WIP posts and are not sure whether they are going to sell the item or give it away. If so, add a link to the poser forum header for that too. I also think it may be a good idea to have a "merchant contact" or "product question" forum open to all members for people who have questions about a purchase or want more details. Thats my $2.50 (or 99 cents as this weeks advice in on sale ;) )

.

Yes @ what raven said ^^^ up there post 19.

Various comments/opinions: If people want to buy/peruse stuff, they'll find a way to look for it. Whether in the MarketPlace or the Marketplace AND the Showcase. I realize R'City needs to make money. And I know merchants want to make money. But, I'm a bit tired of being the lowest common denominator in life. I'm tired of advertising thrown in my face when I am trying to do something else. One can't drive down the darn road, turn on the radio or TV, go to a website, open a magazine, get your email, get your snail mail, open a bill, rent a movie or DVD, and (well, you get the idea) without having ads thrown at you. I'm so sick of it, I don't listen to the radio any more and I record any TV program so I can skip the ads. When I log into R'City, I get an ad. In fact, every page I go to seems to have an ad. Then to have ads sprinkled throughout the threads, well, adds even more. But as someone said above, just skip them. Easy for me, but there was a time when I had dial-up and I bet a lot of people still have dial-up...so, waiting for ads to come in only adds to the misery of R'City (which can be slow even on cable sometimes). So, if I want ads, I know where to find them. Why find them? Why have a Showcase? Because, as a largly automated group of people, categorizing things is what we expect. Logical sense. The reason we have folders on our PCs. Also, why have a vendor post "upcoming" items? Easy...to allow questions (like I asked about the new Howler by Samctum Art). Or to get feedback so the vendor can adjust what s/he is making (like recently with Ironhart's new building). Also, since R'City allows information about products being sold at other places, I can see even more items (without having to visit each of those sites). For the person who said I can just look in the MarketPlace when it's finally released, well, not all the items in the Showcase go to R'City's Marketplace. So, I'm glad there is a Showcase and the opportunity to "chat" with the vendor. An "ad" flag? Not sure it will work. People who don't want to see ads will just flip the switch. And, for people like me, I'll flip the switch and just go to the Showcase/Marketplace when I'm in the mood for ads. Just another opinion...FWIW.

Putting something like you suggested in the forum header, i.e. something that highlights the most recent post in PS isn't an option I'm afraid, good idea though it is. The header uses static HTML, it's not generated server-side as the main page content is. In order to change the header content it has to be manually edited.

It ain't broke. Don't fix it. :-)

'Yes' to everything PhilC said. And I'm the same about in-your-face advertising. Offensive flashing ads turn me right off. Same goes for sneaky tactics and misleading thread titles. If it's some cheap attempt to get me interested in a product, it's more likely to put me off it. What some people apparently don't understand is that a one-line title sending people to another forum would still add pages of junk titles to this forum. And what's to stop people posting for the same product every single day under new thread names? I come here to learn or give help, read about people's successes or woes with poser, and generally keep up with current poser events. But that does NOT include being inundated with promos for products. I get enough crap in my mail for viagra and penis/breast enhancement as it is. These posts belong in their own forum. Full stop. mac PS Rename it the SEX forum. That'll pull them in there in droves.

The one line title wouldn't add pages if you had the option to turn off advert in your preferences like you do with nudity and violence.

"PS Rename it the SEX forum. That'll pull them in there in droves." LMAO

'The one line title wouldn't add pages if you had the option to turn off advert in your preferences' Very true, raven. But I reckon the prefs idea is a turkey as far as merchants are concerned. A lot of people would switch ads off from the git-go, which defeats the whole object of the exercise. The only people annoyed by ads would be the newbies who haven't figured out how to kill them yet. mac

Yes, but as a lot of people don't want ads in this forum, I just thought that would benefit them. That way the merchants could still advertise here, without upsetting the people who don't want ads. All the rest would still have them. If people don't want ads and don't go to the showcase, nothing is going to change their minds.

Yes to what PhilC said, keep the spam out of here. If I want to see ads, I'll go the the Product Showcase Forum.

My two cents. I don't want ads back here. Look at how many rode the Mike 3 thing, when ads aren't allowed. I can just imagine if ads were. I don't want ads shoved in my face. Look, I don't even watch TV any more, that's how much I dislike commercials. If this forum did become filled with ads, eventually I would get fed up with it and just go somewhere else. And if I'm not here reading the forums, I'm not going to hit the marketplace as much. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would do this; I just happen to be warning you now. Flagging similar to the nudity flags would be acceptable. For the merchants who feel they aren't getting enough exposure, here are some OT suggestions for getting the business of people like me. * Spend a good deal of time on the banner that gets rotated through the top of the page. Show a good quality picture, be specific. You've got 10 seconds; make me want to click and see more of your product. * Spend a good deal of time on the thumbnail that's shown on the store pages. Again, you need to catch the eye and make me want to click. * Freebies. Freebies are EXCELLENT advertising. * Don't be whining about not being able to shove your products into people's faces whenever and wherever you want. I'm not here for your benefit, all right? I am a human being, not a walking credit card. Relate to me as a fellow artist, not a potential sale. * Don't be insulting your potential customers. * ... I just realized the insulting person doesn't have a storefront here. Hmmm... I'm gonna go ponder that for two seconds, I think.

Ok, to set the stage, I'm a buyer first, a vendor second (finally). I've had issues with the layout of the Forums for some time. It may have worked in the beginning, but it's time for a serious revamp of the layout. It's crowded, requires a lot of scrolling, and the sheer mass of daily messages can be taxing to get through in a day. Hiding forums was a great idea at first, but what if you need a forum later, and you forgot you hid it? How difficult would it be to rearrange the main Forum page to where each program (Poser, Bryce, Photoshop, etc) had two or three subdivisions? Here's a rough example: ---------- POSER <--This is a header Moderators: 1. Product Showcase - Check out works in progress, product announcements, or communicate with the creator of the product. This is a forum for Poser product news. 2. Technical Support - Got a Poser problem? Here's where you can find help from other Poser users, and hopefully get back on track. 3. General Discussion - Doesn't fit in Product Showcase or Tech Support? Well, this is where it goes. Please, no advertising or site spam, unless specifically related to someone's discussion. ---------- Now, all the Poser-related forums are in ONE spot, and easily accessed by all interested parties. Don't want the Product Showcase? Don't go in there...but it's right there if you DO want it. Same layout can be used for any other program on the forum list. Now granted, some forums don't need all three. Ok, so don't make all three...not like they can't be added in later if necessary. It might also be a good idea to start breaking up the main page into smaller main areas, as well. Given the time, I could make some more suggestions...but as this thread relates only to Poser and the Product Showcase, I'll cut it here. Anyway, there's my two coppers, for what they're worth. CT

Does no one remember how many posts for new items we had to wade through every day just to get to the regular posts about Poser? This should NOT be a place for people selling stuff. It was terrible before, and that's why the other forum was created. I hate wading through ads about products in my email and it's the same if you let it into this forum again. If I want to know what's for sale I will look. New people are going to figure out where to go. This is the forum for tips and ideas and sharing, not for the marketplace. Please just put up a banner or something but don't let the ads back into the poser forum. Marque

I agree with PhilC and Marque on this one NO ADS IN THE POSER FORUM!

Folks, as xoconostle said IT AINT BROKE. Nothing needs changing. Let it be. And most definitely NO NEW FLAG in the forums. (1) It's all or nothing and I might miss something good so I wouldn't set it (2) if there were a flag, even the merchants who never considered posting would start to. Can you say 1000 new posts a day? I thought so.

More people would come to the Product Showcase if it were not a rehash of what's already in the marketplace. I'm a major Poser junkie but seeing the same picture over and over again is boring and turns me off. If you're a merchant and you want more buyers, do more promos for Product showcase. Ask for suggestions, give contests and freebies. Announce sales, etc. A slightly larger notice of the Product showcase and why one might benefit from going there would help, but no flags, no ads in the regular Poser forum. You can't force people to buy without driving them away-- and that's what ads in the regular forum feel like. Emily

I am so with you on this Lyrra! my head hurts too! outch!

How do you differentiate ads? What is commercial? If you don't want to read a post, no one is forcing you to. Generally, promo's are going into the Showcase forum. The Mike stuff is as much to show off M3 as it is to show off the vendor's product. Many times the vendor is asking for advice, not showcasing. I do like the idea of a discount given in teh Product Showcase forum though. But that's because I'm a cheap bastard with too little cash to get what I want. However, that said, it should be up to the vendor, not a 'sity policy. It's a shame the 'sity doesn't have product specific coupon coding available. Then the merchant could run a promo based on the coupon number given in the Showcase.

There's always problems, but this is really a little one. Nice to discuss something this minor for a change. At least we aren't talking class action suits the way we were a few months ago. And Lyrra, you and the mods are doing a great job. You are all well appreciated.

PhilC is da man! Right on the money there my friend :) I'm with Phil 100%. There is no need to change anything as the whole system was working perfectly fine. Just because a couple of commercial posts where put in this forum is not justification enough to change the way things are running. Simply move the posts to the Showcase forum and be done with it. If I'd placed commercial images/text in this forum I'd have expected it to be moved pretty much immediately. I don't advertise in this forum because it's not allowed. I advertise in the Showcase forum because it IS allowed. What's to figure out?

I'm definitely with PhilC and many others on this one. As a buyer, I can say that there positively are vendors (and sites -- remember Bbay?) who I will not buy from because of a number of reasons (poor customer service, unethical practices), and oversaturation and in-your-face pitching is certainly at the top of that list. It doesn't matter how nice it looks -- if so-and-so is selling it, then I'm moving on to look at the next item. Vendors have to understand something about marketplace economics. There will be booms and there will be lulls. When DAZ/Studio comes out and the initial for-pay add-ons are released, a lot of peoples' money will be going elsewhere, for example. And there will just be some times when peoples' pockets are empty (such as every January). You don't overcompensate for the lull by thrusting yourself on everyone. You want to stay in peoples' minds, of course, but you'd better not harass them. That's why freebies and the idea of discount coupons in the Showcase are a good idea. Give a little. What you get back in customer loyalty will make a big difference. Just as there's folks that I won't buy from, there's folks that I return to occasionally to see their collection, specifically because of what I've seen them give to our community. Such as Mr. PhilC. Take care; Chas

OT, a bit, but... Met PhilC at Dragon*Con last year. One of the nicest, soft-spoken, easy-going, unpretentious guys you'll ever know. Oh, and he has a real knack for this 3D stuff!

As I've said, I never minded the commercial ads here, I also don't mind going to the Product Showcase forum. I usually hit it at least once per day. So I don't see either choice as a problem. I also don't see what the big deal is about getting more people to look at a merchant's products. Sprinter's contests ALWAYS seem to have long lists of posts = large numbers of people looking at the items in question. Perhaps the problem isn't in where the advertisements are but in the advertisements them selves. And if the P.S. forum isn't enough, by itselve use a banner.. yep they are still up there, and point it to more details in the P.S. forum! I'm sure there are other ways to draw attention to the P.S. forum, or directly to the merchant's store. I think it should be ok to show a WIP in this forum when a specific question, opinion, or reqiest for help is made, even if it's as simple as, "is there a market for this?". As long as it's kept "in Taste", say a single post and not a case of spaming the forum with an 'update a hour'. I think part of the problem recently has been because the posts in question had multiple advertised items in them. They used Mike 3 as a hook (yes I'm as interested in seeing what he is like as everyone else!) then also contained commercial items by the poster. If they had contained the poster's item alone, and with a question, etc. in the mix, no one would have complained. IMHO The inclusion of M3 as a hook (intentional or otherwise) to get more people to look, along with the number of messages that popped up in a short period of time, pushed it a bit past simple requests and grated on others that have been chastised for the same "transgretion", or less. That's why I believe we need solid rules, published and followed/enforced by/for all. typo's and opinions are my own, I appologize for the first... mike

With a Product Showcase Forum,a Product Showcase Gallery,credits for products(WITH LINKS)on most images in the regular Poser Gallery(probably one of the most viewed on the net),the Market Place with full product info,and three pages for Product pictures and endorsing,the Front Page that showcases hot and sale items, Banner Ads on(I beleive)every page at Renderosity,a link at the top of every page in the Poser Forum to take you right to the Product Forum.... the merchants now want to flood the Poser Forum with their merchandise spam? Wasn't the Product Showcase Forum created because the vast majority of members wanted to have a place..JUST ONE FU*KING PLACE that they could learn about,exchange ideas on,help out each other with Poser,without Merchants shoving their wares down our throats. Ive overlooked when merchants come to this forum, airing their dirty laundry about who stole whose pose this week,or to inform me that I must delete my MP purchase( and lose my money) because they now claim some other merchant stole it from them.Those are business disputes that if the merchant had even the smallest amount of professionalism,would deal with it without dragging the members and customers thru their Shit. Now we have a handful of Greedy merchants who knowing full well that they shouldnt be posting their products here are doing so.One takes the attitude that he is an artist,and thusly has the right to post here,another tries to justify it by saying its WIPindeed. And yet another merchant (female) called the members here whiners" for not wanting her product ads here,and get this..WE(the whining members) should be the ones moved to another forum. I know this is not a cut and dry situation as merchants like PhilC,SteveShanks,Jim Burton,Sharen,Anton (to name only a few)will on occasion show a small shot of something theyre working on.Im Very OK with that (as I think most are),because of their demeanor,the way it is presented,and the explanation of how they work,is more of an education than of any sales pitch. I find it fantastic to be able see how the masters work,.but more importantly its because merchants like them are here to help and make this forum what it should be.They take the time and effort to answer a question from an advance user to helping the most novice newbie in other words, they are contributing members of this forum(not carpet baggers) .I believe they understand how important it is,that for Renderosity to remain strong and continue to grow,the Poser forum should remaine free of spam,and the rape by the greedy.Unfortunately the're this monetary greedy handful,that just can't crasp the concept that this is also a very wise business practice.If you spam this forum,insult the members,and play your little "lets see what I can get away with"games,you run off members(members=CUSTOMERS). If a merchant makes a product, that shows good craftsmanship,origanilty,usefulness,etc.it will be talked about here by our large compulsive buying Poserholic membership, and will no doubt generate more sales for himwhat more advertising could they want. Add this to the above list of avenues for their product to be noticed,and I doubt much more can be done. If they can't sell their wears on the largest site on the net,with more ways to gain access to them than ANY other site....adding flags,more links,bigger buttons,and spamming the Poser forum isn't going to change a thing....people just don't want what they have to offer....simple... Should any changes be made...only one that I can think of..open up that Merchant's Forum to the general membership,so we can annoy the crap out of them for awhile! OK..I'll just shut up now... SWAMP

Well said SWAMP

you guys sure talk a lot .... slow down! I have to read this thing squints

"How do we get more people to the Showcase?" Why bother? Maybe they just don't want to read that forum. Why should they?

Without reading what went before... How about sticking a perma-link into the top bar, like the ones for poser patches and the like, that way those that want to read it can find it quick, etc. Or you could gather the offending ads and add a link on a daily basis, that'd be more admin overhead but only one extra thread per day, (if ads were posted that day) This site is supported by the store so I guess getting people to buy more stuff, (or at least look at it) make sense. later jb

Here's a notion. It won't satisfy everyone, but it is easy to implement and won't bother too many people. Just put a link to the showcase on the header to this forum?!? There is none there now, so you have to go and hunt it up.

I did not get into this argument to have the forums changed or because I wanted more merchant rights. I got into it because I feel I'm being falsely accused of maliciously committing unsavory acts against Renderosity and its members. If Swamp read the threads thoroughly, it would have noticed that "skirting the rules" and "cheeseballing" were being thrown around before I ever mentioned whiners. However, even if you changed the forums, someone would still find something to complain about as it is just impossible to please everyone. As I stated before, I simply want clear guidelines not some that I must guess at. And, my posts DID NOT violate the guidelines. My intent with my images was not advertisement regardless of what some choose to believe. I was simply sharing my accomplishments in a place I thought people would enjoy seeing them. However, it is obvious that some see them differently. As such, I will refrain from posting images in this forum. So, please let Renderosity get back to being the fun filled and pleasurable place to visit that it always is. :) Beth

Have to agree with Lucy_Fur in regards to the the name calling of "children" This isn't paid advertising space, if you want that "right" buy more banner space you can you know. This community is free to all - consumers and merchant's alike. Consumers have just as much right to not deal with even more advertising and merchants have a right to exposure. It's equal - you don't have one without the other. I do however really like Illusions idea of favorite merchants - that way we can get a notice of when a favored merchant puts out a new product as well as giving the merchants we porefer additional advertising on our home pages here. That this is an issue now is not a surprise, even the gallery isn't keeping to the product showcase standard. I'm not talking about images that use a product, but those that will specifically state "I am beta testing this for so &so" or "to be released soon" those are often times no longer in the Product gallery either. My point is that when they are allowed in the forum or the gallery it creates a blurred line and members no longer know what is acceptable and what isn't. Like Phil - I will refuse to buy what is shoved in my face. LOL Today I was calling around for DSL rates for the new house we are buying (where I will finally be able to get DSL - simply because it's more rural) and one sales man was a hard seller - wouldn't let up. I don't care how good his rates (and they weren't) I wouldn't use him now. Heck I videotape my favorite tv shows regularly just so I can zip through the commercials while viewing EG Equally product help for development does really belong in the merchant forum - that is stated as one of it's purposes - for merchant's to help each other isn't it? Perhaps linking to the product showcase from the marketplace (is that done already?). Beth - I enjoy your images - not because of the products but because of the faces - perhaps if you simply put them in the gallery? I would add you a s afavorite artists and then I would know everytime you posted a new cutie.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

The poser forum in my opinion is crowded enough without putting in ads. The problem as a merchant is that I want people to see my works and somehow direct them to the showcase forum or my store. So it is tempting to post in the Poser Forum and direct them. Of course if every merchant did this there would probably be a minimum of 50 ads per day. Also the Admins would have to mark posts as "Ads" if they are submitted incorrectly. In otherwords it would make the forum chotic and a headache for those that want to use it for it's intended purpose. On the other hand, The Product Showcase Forum has an evergrowing list of problems. People use it for Contests such as name my new product or guess how many toes my version of vicki has. regardles of how dumb the contest is, it causes lots of added posts and moves "showcased" products down on the listings. I have had a new product on the first advertising page for as little as a few hours due to posting just before someone comes in with a contest. Or because some contiversial thread that gets going with like 50 responses. For these reasons I can appreciate and understand why merchants try to reach out in other ways. It is really hard sometimes to get recognised as a merchant and to get a good and trusted reputation. If you advertise or post too much and too hard you may turn people off. On the other hand if you don't post and don't advertise on a regular basis you may be losing potential sales. And of course if you are too longwinded people get bored with you. So, to sum it up. We need something else but I don't know what it is. Billy AKA ironhart

-In general, I am against mixing the adds into the poser forum. I don't have the time to keep up with the things I want to follow, and having adds (for me) decreases the value of the forum becuase I have to weed through that much more to find what I want.
--If I find a topic or thread that interests me and I'm already reading through it, and I see a product I like, I would be much more likely to follow a link or otherwise look for the product over on the Product Showcase forum. Really the best way to get me to go there would be for me to see it in action in the threads I follow. (And for the tiny minority of evil types who just thought "hey, I can just pretend to be using my product and get him to follow a link over to it!", that probably won't work. Just slapping in a new thread with a random picture and a link is unlikely to convince me to follow it (there are a lot more links available than I can possibly follow, why would I follow that one?) I already have to be interested enough to get to your topic and stay with it for more than 2 seconds.)
--Of course now that I've said all this I'm going to have to go check out the Product Showcase forum. sleep... what was that?
--This is not a solution to getting people to the gallery, but for merchants who use it and want a way to increase exposure, I would suggest putting a meaningful subject line on the thread. For instance, if I'm looking for hair, I'll LOOK for hair. If I see "now, they're back!" as a subject, I'm not even going to bother looking at it. I have no clue what it is about, and since I have to skip something due to time constraints, I'll concentrate on subjects that appear to be geared towards what I want and ignore the ones that have only a random chance of being anything I want.