hey .. just dropped in to mention that I'm new to the site, and a profesional art critic. I'm currently using Poser for storyboarding at my agency and figured I'd come here to check out the community. I have to say that what I've seen today in the gallery seriously needs some help for the most part. Many technically sound pieces, but most lack a fundamental understanding of light, color and composition. So, if anybody wants a serious critique of their work, send the URL to me and I'll have a look. And to those I commented already today? let me know if you reowrk the piece and I'll have another look. Nice to meet you all, TigerShark PS remaining anaonymous 'cause I'm gonna seriously annoy somebody someday. Its just the nature of being a critic

but not, alas, a professional typist. Please ignore my spelling

First off what you see in the Poser Gallery is a mix between advance and beginner, professional and hobbyist. Before asking to critique others work, it might help to upload some of your own work so people can see you know what youre talking about.

i'm sure many people will be happy of ur assistance, but i hope you understand that many people are learning or/and just make renders for there personal enjoyment... I myself am a digital artist... I have sold my digital art to, and do commissions for shops & clubs... I have developed my own style.. my style of art isn't going for photorealism, its more fetishy/pinup... so i don't know what you'd make of it. I have 4 years of actual art training with real mediums, then discovered the digital and haven't put 'pen to paper' since! So for the galleries here, go gentle on them. Remember to bare in mind many people do it for a hobbie and fun, they are not trying to be professional about it. -SimderZ- xXx

My Gallery

we have plenty of rude critics for us hobbyists, we don't need another....

I don't want to sound offensive, but i neither desire or need your critiques. I don't if your statment came across wrong, but I am sure many here will find it slightly presumtuous on your part.. Sorry if i caused offense, just stating what i feel

My Gallery

I'm attempting to be helpful and offering professional level citiques. If you don't wish them .. don't email me. Very simple. For those who wish to improve their work, no matter what level they are at, feel free to contact me. As I'm not an artist myself, posting my work would be less than pointless. To prove what I can do? alas, I am in a bind .. the best I can offer is to critique someones image publicly, here where all can see. But I think that would be contrary to the purpose of this forum, no? Simderella, I fail to see why you felt the need to tell me you didn't need my opinion, but I shall bear that in mind. Thank you for your charm and courtesy. TigerShark

I'm still a beginner, and I'll never be a pro. But always looking for guidance in lighting and composition. Be glad of any critiques you care to make on my stuff, which you can see by clicking on my name above -- and yes I have a thick skin ;-)

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Well, if you can't help yourself, then how are you going to help others? ;) We get people in here all the time claiming to be professional critics. And all they want is a badge to go and rip others work to sheds. Kind of like what your screen name implies.

"As I'm not an artist myself, posting my work would be less than pointless. To prove what I can do?" Sounds like another troll to me.

Which gallery? Poser? Maya? Cinema 4D? All of them? Look, man, sorry, but here (at Renderosity) it is about helping others out, giving each other positive feedback and honest critique, not just some lofty write-off. Giving advice which will truly lead to better renders.

Furthermore, a lot of the people giving feedback and advice at Renderosity are professional still and motion picture artists, as well as hobbyists. A place where professional and hobbyist alike can come together and learn. And showing up and saying "I'm a pro art critic..." just seems a little pretentious and off-putting. And before you claim that "the gallery" is all bad, I suggest you have a look around all the galleries of Renderosity. Furthermore, this is an art site, and as a pro art critic, you should know that art separates from reality and does whatever the artist wants, not adhere to some arbitrary set of rules.

No anger intended. Just throwing down the truth.

if you provide some reference to what your critiques are like, would be helpful for people to see if your opinion is valuable. personally, I prefer the critique of professional art directors and artists myself, someone with a resume. Actually, that person is my uncle, who worked as an art director for a major publication for 20+ years. you have to understand, that not everyone is going to like critique, and its good to couch critique in a way that you are giving pointers to improve the work, not tear it down. The objective is to produce a better piece of artwork, so think of yourself as a teacher, not a critic. Also it helps to understand the media you're critiquing, because if you don't understand it, you may not know what its limitations are, and not be able to give appropriate pointers in how to improve as a result.

ROFLMAO - I think considering the reviews I've seen you give all across the Poser Gallery I'd prefer to know your credentials. I've always been amused by the "I'm not an artist myself but..." mentality. Art is a state of mind and heart (Picasso is a good example - can't stand his surreal images, but it spoke what was in his mind), what you don't like doesn't make your point valid. An example of that would be your "critique" of the image "Persephone" it was created as an "artistic vision" something a "critic" should be aware of. As for your comments - you don't care if you are emailed a request or not, you just hit the galleries and shredded. Personally I could care less about your commentary on my image, I do sell my artwork so I prefer to listen to the voices of those who enjoy my work enough to pay for it. I will say however that your comment seemed to show a lack of knowledge or understanding. On occasion an artist intentionally centers and creates in a specific direction that is where the "balance" is aimed. I'll be interested to see the types of comments you leave for those members here who are either Art teachers/professors or hold an art degree. But hey - you sure know how to make an impression as a newbie.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Looks like i did offend but it wasn't my intension.. Its just i have read the comments you have left on peoples work... and some of it agree with.. but art is up the artist, and many people here do this purely for fun.. Also u've got to see that its not all about going for total realism.. I don't go for realism, to me its all about expressing my style & feeling through my art... I would hate to know that if i left an overly critical comment on someones work, it made them feel so crappy that they gave up posting here.. thats all i was trying to point out.. I do understand that the comments box is there for um comments and negative or positive if you allow comments to be given you have to be prepared for what you get, i believe in a little sensitivity and maybe pointing out some good things too.. I didn't want you to take my thoughts the wrong way, I was just trying to pint out how some may feel here, as i have been a part of this community for sometime. anyhoo... now i am very interest to know what you would think of my work, so perhaps i spoke in haste. Honestly I really do have charm and i would hope a modicum of courtesy.... ;) Enough of my rambling, i need a cup of tea!! hehe -SimderZ- xXx

My Gallery

.... i must say this ... I value the opinions of my fellow artists here at ReRo..... BIG HUGS ALL.... you all rock & shine in your own unique ways!!!! YAY US!!

My Gallery

I'm currently using Poser for storyboarding at my agency & of course As I'm not an artist myself, posting my work would be less than pointless Interesting - you state "agency" to imply validity (advertising?) and yet you are not an artist.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

yeah I just read the critic on Lady Silvermage, and have to say, I do agree with it... but... remember Poser 4 and Poser 4 ProPack both do NOT do refraction, or reflection well at all. (poser 5 does in a fashion, but its not the most spectacular) All that has to be painted, or use a photoshop plugin like Aurora if you use Poser 4. So she's at a bit of a disadvantage there. I'd like to know what the camera settings were on the image.

My uncle isn't an artist either. He bought artwork and photography for a magazine. Big difference. Still is very active in the antiques scene. have to say, I do not post every bit of artwork as a masterpiece. Some stuff I post here is for fun, some of it is stuff I really want a solid crit on. It just depends.

The value (and credibility) of someone's critique depends on the quality of the art posted in their gallery.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

That just isn't true. Critics often aren't artists, musicians, actors, etc.....you can have a keen sense of art without trotting around your degree to shove in everyone's face just as you can have perfect pitch and never have studied music. A critical eye is a speciality in itself...and artists often don't own it themselves. Having said that, I also would say that no one is necessarily who they say they are on the Internet (yes, it's been said before...because it's true) so don't take anyone's criticism at face value (unless you want to).

not always, MM. There are a LOT of people that post here that do not have a gallery on Renderosity, but have a body of work 'somewhere' ... just because its not here doesn't mean it doesn't exist. most magazine editors and art directors are also ... NOT artists. But they know what they want, and have a trained eye. Not fair to say they aren't qualified either. But the diff is, the latter group usually has a lot less TIME to give their opinions here. I know I have to send the stuff to my uncle myself, he sees the internet as some kind of beast that he wants nothing to do with.

I have to jump in here and say that most people you will be trying to sell your art to are not likely to be artists themselves - they may have an educational background in art. However, they're the people who have to want to buy your work. However, Tigershark, here you probably should wait to be contacted by people who want your critiques - many people who post here aren't even interested in being professionals and therefore probably also aren't interested in a serious critique, may even find it offensive. There's a few forums over at cgtalk.com that are set up specifically for people interested in having professional critiques of their work. There's nothing like that here, although it might be a good idea.

I think its a good idea too, it would be good to have a wip forum expressly for critiques on renders and modeling... you post there, you know what's coming! g

No disadvantage at all bijouchat - I could have put the reflections in via postwork and in fact did at one point, but I disliked the effect and chose to remove them. As I chose to remove the plants I had added as well. I found them to be distracting from my point of the image. As for the comments regarding the need for horizontal lines - why? I could have draped ivy but that would have defeated that I had specifically removed the top of the image to imply a heavenly infinity . Woman is centered as a power point between the vertical columns which imply a grounding as there is intentionally no ground or background other than the heavens. But you see all of that is my poespective of what I was intending for the image. I'd have to check but the camera angle was at 150mm and angled out and down a bit (just slightly I didn't want to actually be looking "in" the pool). My uncle was a professional artist for many years and worked for years as the Arizona Highways magazine cover artist. My father was a dabbler as was/is my mother. Doesn't mean much, only that I grew up around it. I have my own critic anyhow, a grumpity (is that truly a word lol) older woman who was an artist for a NY advertising agency back before women were accepted in that line of work. Man, she can be brutal! but I know her and respect her opinion. To be honest - anyone who views an image is a critic. As for this image the version on my site (which is slightly different) has actually already been sold today as a print within a few hours of my posting it - so someone must like it (although they are a regular buyer...). And all who view images are critics anyhow. I simply have an issue with anyone who suddenly appears and takes apart every image with comments enabled (it explains why so many gallery images today had the comment option turned off) and claims he's a professional. Many images I viewed earlier that he commented on have now had their comments turned off - but not once did he leave a comment that an image was good. Then he comes here and says he'll critique upon request...

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Well it is nice to meet you too. Be kind. Sharen

I don't give a damn who says what - or why - about my images. Anyone who looks is welcome to leave a comment, no matter what. I regard this place as a wall in the city; every so often I go and post up a picture, so that passers by can view and leave their reactions. FWIW, I do believe TigerShark is a troll, but so what? Even trolls have opinions. I'm not so scared of an adverse reaction that I'd disable comments from my work. Believe it or not, I know what's good and what's bad about my stuff (most of the time), so I ain't fishing for praise.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

I would like to see an image that TigerShark DOES find artistically 'sound', created by someone that he feels has an understanding of light, color, and composition. Although I personally feel that anyone who acts like a critic should have pictures in their gallery, I would be much more willing to take his suggestions more seriously if I could see what he deems to be a quality image. This isn't intended to be an insult directed to him, I would just like to see his idea of good art before he passes judgement on anyone else's. Thanks, take care. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=467406

crit the critique... think I need not get a crit from this guy *g* here's a link to Shadowrose's image to see what I mean, and my reply.

Troll.

Sweet shooting, bijouchat.

Dreams are just nightmares on prozac...
Digital WasteLanD

I no longer think Tigershark is really a professional, if he had a background in art history he'd have known that Egypt was and IS a multiracial society, and was even more of one back in the Bronze age. There are white people in Africa and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN... and if you would take a look at the depictions of Syrians in Egyptian art, you'll see they are all white. Berbers are fairer in skin colour, its a known fact. thanks for the camera settings Lady Silvermage... I was curious, as Poser drives me nuts to get a decent perspective that I'm happy with, and leads to the perception of renders looking flat. I pretty much stick with a 50 mm lens for wide angle views, that's pretty close to the human eye, but it looks weird in Poser a bit for some reason. Not your fault. I hear you on not wanting critiques unless they are invited, I generally don't leave one unless I have something good to say as well.

bijouchat - I believe 65mm is pretty damn close to the human eye's focal length. I have to disagree with you on the "something good to say" remark. All comments - and that includes the comments of a complete and utter f*ckwit - are welcome and valid, else we run the risk of preaching to the converted and/or becoming a back slapping society. That's not to say I'd just rip into someone's work for the hell of it, but if I think a piece is shoddy, I will say so. For sure, I'll try to say why. Maybe that's the difference between insult and reasoned criticism. But for myself, I really don't care.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Actually I don't mind critiques at all I have received some that I felt were well deserved and that have helped me to improve. And I'm aware of the no-no that placing a figure in the center often is. There are simply times that I believe that breaking "the rules" works for the intent of an image. An image should be taken as the whole of what it is - not a concept of what art "should" be. That said had his critique been simply the centering or the water that would have been either ignored or considered (although I'd already done the reflections and discarded them). It was the comments implying that a purely vertically (or horizontally) aimed image is wrong somehow. I shrugged it off as his opinion - until I began to read the gallery and saw that all the images uploaded in the same time frame that still had comments showing had a negative comment on them - some of them were just "historical" but not truly valid "critiques". That's when I became annoyed. Couldn't care less about his opinion on my work (and only one image at that) but when I see that he is apparantly just looking to stir the post with all the artists it makes his "critiques" far less valid.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Good call Bijou. I don't want criticism from someone who does not have a working knowledge of the program I'm using. Especially criticism of lighting, which is not our friend in Poser.LOL. Someone who understands the workarounds necessary for the limited render machines Poser 4 and Poser 5 have is invaluable. Something tells me Tigershark is not it. I try to give useful critiques occassionally in the galleries when my hands can stand the typing. If I've ever been helpful, I'm grateful, and if I'm ever too heavy handed, please let me know. Emily

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=Rhiannon

Go for it ... :-)

lol at rhiannon - hon your work is fabulous although you center your characters in several, that'll get points off ya know wink

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

quote "Good call Bijou. I don't want criticism from someone who does not have a working knowledge of the program I'm using." That's how I think most of the time too. Its hard to appreciate the work I put into modeling and shaders if you haven't got any idea of the work that's involved in it. When I want an art directors critique, a person that's in the industry, I'll go to someone I know that's in the industry whose opinion I can respect, not someone that hides behind anonymity. When I want a fellow artists critique, I want to know what programs they have experience with. I want them to be able to provide me feedback and most importantly... TIPS on how to fix my image, technical tips that come from someone that knows the tools I am working with. Poser is definitely not anyone's friend with a lot of this stuff. Realism is best tried in other programs, and that's why I use Carrara to render and not Poser. That being said... I think its a feat when someone is able to get something really photoreal out of Poser, its really hard to do. Its something to brag about, even.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you have a warm and wonderful time in the community. That being said, I don't hold a high opinion of critics of any sort. So often I highly disagree with what one has said of some movie, book, food, art, dog, ect. that I tend to take his/her opinions with a pinch of salt, just like I take everyone else's.

NUff...said! tigershark.next be nice and take out the "pro" and be a little more subtle with the hand out. advice and comments are welcome...just drop a line if you see something but please...this place is haven of great artist whose tool is just being born. We definitely have grown and evolved far from the caveman art critique whose piss is a vote of "yuck".

Hmm i think what everyone is trying to say is... Post your resume so we all can see it and decide if we should value your opinion or tell you to STFU Just my take on this.

Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach become critics. Don't remember who said that, but I tend to agree with it. :) Kate (who is not an artist, never claimed to be an artist, doesn't WANT to be an artist, will punch out anyone who ACCUSES her of being an artist, and thinks critics are one step below lawyers) P.S. That means that I only want warm fuzzy comments on my "work" if you feel you must comment at all. :P ** goes off to remove her tongue from her cheek **

You're welcome to critique anything in my gallery, Tigershark. Not a whole lot in there I'd call artistic, but if you have a shortage of offers, then pick out 3-5 of what you consider the closest thing of mine you believe to be artistic and tell me their shortcomings. Thanks for your time.

"That means that I only want warm fuzzy comments on my "work" if you feel you must comment at all. :P" Hehe, evil old me just has to take a look now. :D Be right back.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

OMG!!!!!!what can I say???!!! LOL

Critic... Sigh... A good critic comments on the merits of the work, and gives advice on how to improve. They are polite, and make encouraging comments and positive comments as well as pointing out the needs in the piece. A good critic doesn't hide because "'cause I'm gonna seriously annoy somebody someday". Annoying people with a critic doesn't help anyone. We need honest evaluation and helpful comments. We need encouragement. This isn't a professional artist site. We're mostly ungifted amatures sharing our limited vision. The one comment I've read by our new member wasn't actually too bad (I happened to agree with it, is what I mean). It was well worded, but not too negative. If I'd have gotten it, I'd have appreciated the advice. TigerShark, we've had problems with "critics" here. People who never post their own work, and only give negative, non productive comments. Most of us are VERY wary of someone who calls themselves "critic". We tend to hear "troll". A good critic would be welcome to the community. Especially if they can contribute to our growth. Another troll can take his "criticism" and shove it where the sun don't shine (somewhere on teh eastside of Portland). We're very defensive, both of our own work and those of our friends. And most of us here are friends. We'd love to critque some of your work too. Storyboards sound like lots of fun. Why not post a few and wait for the advice we give? And welcome to our community.

Feel free to critique my stuff. A lot of it is promo shots for clothing I put up in freestuff. It's my way of giving back to our little community. Hope you like homoerotic art (grin).

No offence, but I tend to paraphrase Barbara Cartland's immortal words whenever I see a critic that want to tell other people what to do with their work. She said, something like, "People that can't write a coherent postcard tell me how to write a novel...". How can you give effective critiques when you do not know the characteristics of the material, the limits and possibilities of a certain technique, the limits or possibilities of each color and how they fit with each other to achieve certain effects, the limit and possibilities of the apertures and focal lengths of the simulated cameras employed in this program? As I said, I mean no offence, but your critiques would for these reasons be near useless -- and all they would do is pamper to some sort of ideal of how art should be rather than how are is.

My point of veiw on comments, critics, etc... first off, I do this for fun - it's a hobby - it gives me a chance to get the pictures in my head on "paper" and to share them from time to time. second - I have to admit it makes me feel good to haev someone say "nice job - this really moved me/made me smile/made me think." Even though I don't do this for a living, I put a lot of work into making something good. Third - I really don't mind someone saying "this could be better, what if you tried doing this with it?". Constructive criticism is always welcome. fourth - It's even more welcome when they add "what you did with (insert pose, lighting effect, camera angle, etc) is really stellar. fifth - art is an opinion. There are many things I don't care for or "get" that I can appreciate for being well done, just as I apprecitate that what I think is incredible won't do anything for someone else. sixth - Just because you don't do art/music/write/etc, you can still set forth a valid opinion on what works and what doesn't. seventh - I've no opinion one way or another on tigersharks critics - only wanted to say that if s/he is doing it out of a desire to help out others, then cool - but I won't count tiger's opinion more or less then any of my fellow artists who submit here. If s/he is doing it as meanspirited then not cool - world's got enough negativity as it is. It doesn't need more. : ) just some thoughts. Rob

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=467406 Came back as "Sorry, someone has deleted that item" Bummer, now I can't see what it was :-(

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

Good points, Rob.

You wrote: > ... I'm new to the site, and a profesional art critic.... I see you've been given the grand reception. Something that you should be aware of is that this site regularily has people show up claiming to be good critics, and then proceed to increasingly savage artworks in the name of "honesty," focusing on those they find to be most sensitive, and enjoying the furore and controversy they create until they're finally banned as trolls. > I'm currently using Poser for storyboarding at my agency and figured I'd come here to check out the community.... Then it's my hope that you explore the software well enough to get a good understanding just how much can go into making a lot of the work here. A lot of folks are, after all, starting out with the same tools you have. And, what the hell, why not post a few as works in progress, or element studies? A credible critic will also take the effort to learn and respect the craft involved, and won't be afraid to admit to or show his/her own limitations. > ... most lack a fundamental understanding of light... Light is a particularily bad Achilles' heel in Poser4. I don't know that P5 is all that much better (I've heard it is). To really get good lighting, one needs to render in a prog that uses sophisticated ray tracing, or else to paint it in post work. So this one isn't entirely users' fault. A lot of folks here like myself are limited to poor-man's software (Poser4 and Photoshop6), and can't get the kind of renders you see out of Vue d'Esprit and Cinema4d. > PS remaining anaonymous 'cause I'm gonna seriously annoy somebody someday. Its just the nature of being a critic If you're on the level, feel free to have a look through my gallery. If you're just looking for fun, I don't participate in games and a trolling isn't going to faze me one bit. Take care; Chas

Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach become critics.<< ARRGH I hate that saying! Fortunately, I'm told that I can do about as well as I can teach though...I just hope that's a compliment. ;) Take care. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Y&Artist=igohigh

I try to put as little post work in mine as possible (not good at post anyway). But I do try to see how close I can come to those who do. I'm just a hobbyist with No Art schooling at all, actually I'm a tech-head who uses my 'art' as a way to unwind. (got evolved when I began teaching color-digital theory/reprographics for Sharp Electronics) If ya wants to "critique" my gallery go ahead. If ya wants to troll, don't waste your time as you couldnt get under my skin if ya wanted to.. However, if 'critiquing' is really what you enjoy then I am all ears! Go ahead, you won't hurt my feelings...

Though not necessarily related, it's an example of people who can't do something but know how it needs to be done. I tried for years to play volleyball. Not "backyard" volleyball, but the "real thing". I knew what needed to be done but I just couldn't do it. Call me uncoordinated but I couldn't jump as high as I needed to, couldn't sync with the ball as well as I needed to, and couldn't "finger" the ball as well as I needed to. But, for some reason, I could convey what needed to be done to other people. I could see what they were doing wrong. And I could point it out with suggestions that made the other team members better. Soon, I became coach for our team. Seems like I had a knack for knowing "my" players, knowing weakness on the other team, knowing when someone was "on" and when they were "off". Knew when to change the tempo of the game and which plays to call. They had the talent and I helped them use it. (I can still remember "my" best spiker...he had such power and jumping ability...during one game, he broke the fingers of a would-be blocker! But, the original coach almost cut him from the team). No, we weren't pro or anything, but our team, from a small army base, made it to the East Coast Intramural Army Invitational. Yeah, we didn't win. Finished in the middle (in case anyone is interested). But, I believe my coaching got us there. My way of saying it's quite possible someone knows all about the various aspects of art yet can't draw a stick figure. Is Tigershark a troll? Possibly. But, s/he isn't a troll and isn't necessarily inept at critiquing (sp?) just because s/he doesn't have art to show everyone.

Charlie Tuna... it was a Vickie render of a new texture a guy had put in freestuff... I simply shot down Tigershark for attacking it for saying it was too pale to be Egyptian. Just because it was a redhaired pale Vickie, and I simply wrote there were redhaired Egyptians in the Bronze age. In fact there were quite a lot of caucasians in Northern Africa in those times, if you look at Egyptian art depicting Syrians, who were always drawn as caucasian people. Redheads are by genetics, partially melanin deficient anyway, and are going to be paler than people in their same gene pool that don't carry the redhair trait. I used for historical reference, Ramses II, whose hair on his mummy has been tested to be naturally redhaired... researchers believe his hair was dyed with henna after death to approximate the colour it had been in his youth. the render was fine... average, had some nice lighting, and some pretty nice hair painting too. I guess the guy didn't like having crits, but then not many do, and well, the one that he got really wasn't talking very about the tech merits of the picture. I gotta agree... if you are using poser to do storyboarding, then post some of your storyboards and show us what you think is good composition. Poser is about composition, posing and expressions to me anyway, we all know it sucks wind as a renderer.

Attached Link: https://listhost.uchicago.edu/pipermail/ane/2002-March/001118.html

the link about the tests on Ramses II hair.

Funny thing about art.
I know how to critiqe my students on their labs and exams, I know how to critiqe a young skydiver after a jump (called 'post-diving') and we call it "constructive critisism".
But when it comes to art the 'art critic' seems to always be depicted as a troll. I mean like even in the movies the art critic is always someone with their nose up their but* ***** and slamming everything and everyone...well, except untill they come across some color swatches painted by a chimp or an elephant.

Is this an 'art thing'?

FYI, I found this link some time ago over at 3DCom:
"Giving Critique - a Check List for Critiquers"
and another here:
Giving Critique By Owen Richards

Someone appears, offers his help, and all you do is smack him? If you don't want other people to comment on your work, just don't check that checkbox next time you upload to the galleries.

stewer, I have no idea who you are, but your suggestion is degrading and rude. Everyone that is new here should feel free to post in forum and in gallery and seek constructive feedback. As for this new gun in town that has come here to tell us how to do Poser, well, you have to earn that right. As a self proclaimed message, he says he doesn't do art and doesn't do poser, so how is he supposed to help? Clearly, he can't and any professional critic will know that. That guy IMHO is either a troll, or a real buffoon who is not long to last in the art critic world. The very first thing that a professional has to do when wading into adversary is to understand the position of the adversay and convey that. Here, we are just told the opposite. He does not understand the program, knows nothing about Poser lighting, and didn't even give us a link to his work web site. Troll it is IMHO.

If he's a troll, just ignore him.

well I can see how well I'm appreciated. For those who were offended by less than sugar coated comments today - my apologies for upsetting you. Those who have called me a troll? Why thank you for the title. If you examine my comments today, I actually left several positive ones. For those who have asked for critiques, I shall be looking over your galleries and making some comments. If you would prefer, I can email them privately as apparantly a less than gushing comment is not suitable aorund these parts. Who knew? For everyone else? breathe easy .. I shan't go where I'm not invited. I had mistakenly thought this to be a site for serious artists to communicate and improve their works. Alas, it appears to be yet another clique ridden self sustaining ecology for the most part. But at least you have that in common with most professional artists societies, so I commend you for that much. As to my abilities? I am by and large a book designer and page layout artist with a background in typography and logo design. I've recently started working with Poser 4 and 5 to help realise images before artists are hired. I also write art reviews for several NYC based publications. And a last note on the Egyptian piece - the hieroglyphs on her arm are 1st and 2nd dynasy, predating any graeco/roman contact and therefor highly unlikely for a caucasian Queen. If the title had been 'Goth Princess' I wouldn't have mentioned it. (incidentaly the 'glyphs spell the word 'goat' which I thought quite funny) Pleased to meet you all, TigerShark

Well, TS, my offer still stands. Anyone looking at my work is appreciated. So, have at it if you think it's worth your time. No need for private messages...just leave comments.

What an amazing turn. After all the complaints about lack of imagination in the galleries, boring, amateurish talentless, vaucous naked Vickys, great art being buried etc., ad infinitum... And now, mirable dictu, it's all about fun, just playing around and Poser really doesn't do that good a job anyway. We don't need no stinkin' critics! Shark, you may be a troll. At the very least, you are guilty of perceived immodesty and of course, critique sans gallerie. For those sins, you have earned the death penalty. But, in view of your remarkable achievement in transforming the local zeitgeist, you get my non-artist vote for commutation of your sentence to time served. Now if you're smart, you'll swim away while your jaws are still in your head and not mounted on the wall. PS. there was a thread at Renderotica a while back lamenting the lack of serious criticism, but be warned, there are some serious anglers over there and they don't believe in catch and release.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Well...I don't know in what countries other members live, but where I live we have such things as free speech or equal rights. I actually think this is a good idea and that this is the way the internet should work too. Wether one thinks he's an artist, a lawyer, a critic or a hamster - we should not care, he should be entitled to express his opinion just like everyone else. If we don't agree with his opinion, we offer our own opinion, but we should treat him with the same respect we expect to be treated. If, for any reason, you should meet someone who's you cannot respect for some reason: Don't bother with him, you've got better things to do. Anyhow - how come someone giving comments to other people's work gets to read personal insults, where people asking for warez get the funniest answers ever? After all, this is an open community and we should welcome everyone who's playing by our rules. Warez people don't, but critics do. Getting comments from people who don't know Poser is a huge advantage IMO. They are the ones capable of thinking outside the box, where Poser users themselves tend to think "nice textures, I'd love to know what Vicky morph that is, where'd he get that nice sword and temple from?" while not paying attention wether the image as a whole is able to express the artist's message. I for one love hearing comments on my renderings from a friend who's a photographer as he's paying attention to details I'd never think about. Listening to outside opinions is, IMO, a way of opening your mind.

Doesnt seem like a professional art critic need be much removed from going through a celebritys waste bin on a tabloid. TigerShark, whereas a simple SPELLCHECKER used assiduously will help your typing, judging or understanding artwork of any calibre takes years of hard work, not weeks at a local craft class for the unemployed.

Some of you people need to come up for air! Does wonders for the thought process. And makes it even easier to sleep at nights knowing you haven't trounced someone without giving the person a chance. My take? If he's a troll just having fun...it will die its own death by virtue of not having roused the masses. Any trolling and "uncalled-for" comments on your art will be recognized by anyone else as a "troll" comment. If he's not, then savor the attention. Or perhaps, like I've read so often, people only post their work to get cheap "pats on the back". Reminds me of the many times people have flocked to a "warez hanging" without allowance for any kind of innocent request. Are your egos THAT fragile?

Tigershark - I welcome you to comment in my gallery. I understand for a fact that art critics needn't themselves be artists. I can critic a book but that does not necessarily make me an author. I do not think you are a troll either as trolls don't come in announcing themselves publicly. I also understand the difference between critising and critic-ing. lol. My dream job would be to be a Movie critic - or a Holiday Resort Critic !! Maybe a better title would be "Reviewer" as a "Critic" tends to have a more negative connotation. Unfortunately, the real trolls have paved a way before you by making everyone skeptical, including myself, who has been a victim once. This makes the barrier of entry harder, here at Renderosity. However, having said that, if you can make a name for yourself and with constructive comments/criticism, and integrate yourself into this community, you will find that it is a friendly one.

On a note about a Troll,.. A troll once commented in my gallery ,.."this is the worst thing I've seen! My best bet is that you start from scratch" :-P Oh well. I am always striving to improve.

On reading the comments above, Why do those who had comments done by Tigershark have comments disabled ? That disturbs me a bit. Constructive comments are always welcome. If the comments are to tear down, you will find this place unwelcoming.

Well, TigerShark, you sure managed to stir up a debate here... Some observations: Claiming to be a professional art critic is of absolutely no value unless the artist whose work you are reviewing knows about your background, your own opinions about what constitutes good art and your knowledge of the softwares used to produce the images here. Respect as a critic is something you earn, not something you claim as a profession. That said, I can't rule out the fact that you indeed do have a good perception of how to review art and give helpful critique. But that is not the point, the way you presented yourself here made it tough for you to earn the respect that you might deserve. If you would have started out by giving helpful critique and advise without publicly advertising your professionalism and implying that your qritique is somewhat more valid than others, you probably would have become a valuable asset to the community. A little modesty might have helped. After all, many people here are professionals and have been with this community for a long time. When entering a new community, you must sense the spirit of the community before stepping up on a pedestal. It might not have been your intention, but that was the way it came across.

I agree with stewer about the "out of Poser" critics. If you want to improve and to develope in Poser, you can't just tell yourself "ok, that shadow in this image looks bad, but it's not my fault - it's Poser's fault, it doesn't render shadows well". People who see your art shouldn't care whose fault it is - if the shadow is wrong then the shadow is wrong. So try a different lighting, or try to fix it in postwork. You shouldn't allow yourself to be restricted within Poser's limitations. And I'm giving this example, because I do it myself all the time. I look at a picture I created, and I don't always see these little "faults". It's only when I show it to someone who doesn't do Poser, they can tell me "oh, what's that line on her face", and then I see the shadow is wrong. And I have to admit I didn't see the comment on the egyptian queen picture, but on the same note (and hopefully without offending anyone) - do you think middle-east people in Jesus Christ's time looked anything like they look like in all the renaissance paintings? I'm pretty sure they weren't so BLOND. :)

Great points Anat! You know, Art is all about interpretation in the eyes of the artist. Sometimes, one man's meat is another man's poison. The best combination would be for someone who has a love for art, is appreciative of a wide range of art forms and styles and is able to see it from an angle that "adds value". Having said that, some bad boys in art weren't considered artists in their time but became legends many years later!

Boy oh boy, great debate and thread! Welcome to Renderosity, TigerShark - great nick! :) I, for one, would love to see some good honest critiquing for those that want it. I would be happy to get critique on anything I do. Always up for improving!! I spend a lot of my time at other digital art communities because I know I will get great help for improving my art. No rubbing each other's egos' at some of those places, I can tell you! This place is far too cliquey and closed off to newbies (not necessarily newbies to digital art but newbies to rosity!). Especially the Poser community here. Just my thoughts on the matter! Di

I haven't seen any of the comments poster by Tigershark, but otherwise I think the reception here has been undeservedly rough. Why shouldn't he be a professional critic? Trolls say things like "this is all crap" to things that aren't crap, and TS doesn't seem to be in that category. There is nothing wrong with analysing Poser pictures as pictures. Saying "Poser doesn't handle lighting well" is no excuse. If a picture is to be considered a valid artwork, it has to be appreciated by anyone, not just someone who knows the technical basis behind it. Do you think that no-one should be allowed to comment on a singer's performance if they can't themselves sing? A good critic's skill consists in being able to perceive the strengths and weaknesses of an artwork and translate them effectively into words. It is not the same as a mentoring skill, which someone above evidently confused it with. Someone can be an excellent critic and a lousy artist, and vice versa.

Phantast, very nicely put and I totally agree.

Hello Now i feel very strongly on this subject,i know artists are among the most imaginative and higly sensative people on the planet,buy you must realise with the birth of the artist comes the birth of the art critic. Since the dawn of time there have been artists and art critics,if the artist cannot stand critic on there work then dont post work were peopl will see it You have to be able to understand what the critic is saying about your work, if it be nice critic or bad critic you can only get better from learning and understanding how an image is made. Some people are born to make art and some made to critic it,thats they way it works, i have no gallrrie here yet but i used to as i used a diff alias then and i had bad and good critic and i took then for what they were someone looking at my work and judging in there own minds eye if at all it is art or not. If you are too sencative then dont make art for peopl to see and comment on,or you only be hurt by what is said. This place is a good place to learn and make new freinds,but keep in mind that not every one is proffesional,i have been making images for nearly 30 years one way or another and it always thrills me when i show a finished piece to any one critic or outherwise. Please please dont take what to many people say about your work to heart,i know its hard but if you want to make it in the art game you have to be a liullte thick skinned thanks for liustening seeklight

"Those who have called me a troll? Why thank you for the title. " ... "I had mistakenly thought this to be a site for serious artists to communicate and improve their works. Alas, it appears to be yet another clique ridden self sustaining ecology for the most part." Well, at least you stand up to your title. As for my work, anyone is welcome to commentate, but I'm not an artist, just a GP who lets off steam in an artistical way, so you may feel you're wasting your time on my "sunday paintings".

I suppose I was a bit trollish myself in my other post its just that I know some artists and some very capable art experts and yes, some art critics. Some of the latter are hybrids of the preceding two and they are not the minority but compared to some Ive seen who arent, this one is mild. A skill to acquire is to judge differently when you see different things. I dont think Ill view Renoir in the same thingie as Ken Done.

I like to have response for my 'artwork'. If it's good, I am full of joy. If it's bad, I try to learn something from it. You have to have a thick skin as an artist. Anyway, TS appearance was kind of rude. It sounds like: 'I'm am a critic and see if you can handle me', but there's no need to see him as a troll. He simply wants (needs) attention. Maybe he will really help, so give him a chance. In the end there are a lot of people here leaving comments. I like most, when they tell me how to improve my work and what they think was done well. If someone simply says 'this is bad and that is bad', it doesn't help much. Most of the time, I know myself what needs improvement, but knowing and doing is different as TS stated. Some things are hard to do in Poser and I like to learn more. So combine critics with links to helpful tutorials or hints. I think this will help us all. ...and don't get easily offended...

Devil's advocate time, for a moment. To be fair, there's a lot of attitude in the 3D forums that comments should only be of praise, for fear of hurting feelings. Criticism isn't the problem -- the trouble is often in how it's delivered. But even constructive criticism gets jumped all over by some sensitive folks. I don't even comment on something unless it's damned near perfect, now. I used to offer a lot of constructive feedback, until one person got really touchy about not getting a completely glowing commendation (for some folks, there can be a language / cultural barrier which I understand, but this wasn't the case). He then proceeded to delete his whole gallery in indignation, post in the forums about how visious I was (now that no one could read the comment for themselves) and stir up a lynch mob, one member of which proceeded to hack my website, post personal info on the www, subscribe me to piles of SPAM lists, etc (I've since clarified things with this person). That was one of the reasons why I'd left the 3D forums for about 2 years. And honestly, the comment was something along the lines of "This is good and that's good, but the elbow needs a little post work, and then you'll have a great pic." So please don't misunderstand my attitude toward ThunderShark. While I haven't embraced him as a critic, I also haven't concluded that he's a troll. It's purely "wait and see," and (knowing that I don't know everything and have lots of room to grow) I don't mind constructive criticism in the least. Constructive feedback does more for us in the long run than praise. > Saying "Poser doesn't handle lighting well" is no excuse. Fair enough. I said it to offer context moreso than an excuse (P4 is a terrible hindrance to good light -- I can remember having to do about eight different renders and then blend all the layers on one image, just to get the shadows right). Those who've commented on this are right, though -- it doesn't matter where the fault lies. Take care; Chas

Personally I do not believe that comments should all be praise, how would anyone develop further? Nor do I believe that Poser images should be viewed as that. They should be viewed as art regardless of the medium used. Lighting problems can be addressed in postwork and by rendering in a different program. His comments on my art weren't really taken personally - I could personally care less. He gave his opinion and stated what he thought would look good, he preferred draping vines or some such thing and reflections - I did not, my choice. But to know that he charged into the gallery with no intent other than to criticise the works posted there and that so many turned off comments and to have read many of his comments and to see that there were several that were similar (historical reference) is quite frankly what I found annoying. An Art critic may look at an image and note that it breaks "artistic rules" but realize that it works for that image (how many of the greats originally broke the rules?). An image may not be historically accurate (all those pictures of Christ with milky white skin for instance) but it is no less a valid expression of the artist's imagination. It was his consistent manner of looking for something to criticise even if it wasn't about the art itself but instead about the artist's perception. As in the image "Persephone" and "Egyptian Queen". Troll or not - his opinion and mannerism is not one that I respect. A professional art critics opinion becomes more respected with time and after perceiving his comments, this ones behaviour didn't leave a lot of room for respect. If his attitude/persona aren't respected he could be the best artist in the world and I still could care less about his opinion. Essentially a "critic" of any kind does just that - gives their own opinions. One may love something while another hates it. Will it cause me to turn off comments? No, because on occasion a member here will give me a comment on something that they notice as "off" and I will look at it and say "yes, I can see how that would work" they will do that without trying to change teh "vision" and "concept" of the image. Those comments can often be invaluable. Do I care if he comments on my work - nope not at all.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Well Tiger, I am by far an artist and admit that lighting is a major downfall. I invite you to my gallery and welcome any comments that offer help:)

In a world filled with causes for worry and anxiety...
we need the peace of God standing guard over our hearts and minds.
 
Jerry McCant

Wow! Talk about starting something! Okay! The best kind of criticism is to take a completed work, improve on it, and then tell what you did. Of course, some people may not agree that it is an improvement but it would help people learn new techniques. It is no good to criticize lighting, cameras, etc by saying that they are bad.

well if he is willing to comment on my poser art (which he has no knowlege of how it works) then i am willing to go comment on lightwave cause i dont know how it works either. i dont have much use for critics unless they have an idea for how to make a picture of mine better. but after my recent run in of a troll, i mean critic, i mean troll who had a piece of my work removed, i would think twice before accepting his comments without credentials or at least his trying to use this software.

TigerShark "visited" a few of my gallery images yesterday and left some "critics" as well. I have a pretty thick skin so it didn't bother me too much. But I do take offense to someone leaving constructive criticism that has no evidence of being constructive at all. Rather, it seems to be a teardown fest. I have a hard time dealing with any troll, errr, critic when they themselves have no examples (either their own (preferrably) or of others) that they deem "worthy". I mean if he is using poser at all there is no reason to have us take a look at his works is there? :-) To all those who were really offended by his comments, don't worry about it. There will always be someone in a group that harps on everything negative and get a joy from it...ho humm.. Keep Rockin' /gz

...of course I may get critiqued on my typos next :-) TigerShark "visited" a few of my gallery images yesterday and left some "critics"... critics should have been critiques. I need caffeine Keep Rockin' /gz

Well, of the 2 critiques I looked at (he did on you), it wasn't just a "ripping fest". He posted some suggestions. Doesn't sound like a troll to me.

Attached Link: http://www.purr3d.com

Go for it. I appreciate honest observation, and I use it to improve my skills. Chances are, I already know most of my shortcomings anyway. The link leads to my gallery. I'm a big fan of the 1:1 critique. Don't just say what you think could be improved. It's just as important for a person to know what they are doing right. It is also helpful, when giving critique, if you understand the tools used, so that you can make suggestions on how to improve the image, as opposed to just what is wrong or right with it. I find your grand entrance dubious at best, but I wecome honest and thoughtful critique from any source. *"Alas, it appears to be yet another clique ridden self sustaining ecology for the most part."* It can seem like that, yes. I find myself with the same opinion a lot of the time. I also take time to realise that there are a lot more people here, than those whose voices often rise above the rest. I think what most people (just my opinion based on observation)found offensive, was your bull in a china shop approach to a community of creative types, knowing full well you would be bruising some egos. That, coupled with you proclamation of professionalism, just screams arrogance; a quality that rubs most people the wrong way. Why the grandstanding? What's the point? You can send any comments you have to: momcat at purr3d dot com

All this business of someone not being able to provide constructive criticism on artwork using tools one is unfamiliar with just rubs me the wrong way. The tools involved are inconsequential. It is the skill and the art itself that matters. Your agument would imply that just because a person cannot, or does not, cook, that they are unqualified to say whether or not something tastes good, or if it needs more salt. If the comments left in fretshredders gallery are anything to go by, I'd say there was a great deal of overreacting going on. I'd like to see more of these comments, so that I can decide for myself whether or not I respectthis persons opinion.

Seems like people are confusing two kinds of criticism. One is the criticism of art as art...and for that, it is not necessary to know how the graphic is created but evaluating a graphic on the basis of any artwork. Yes, a watercolor artist can comment on a sculpture. I see no reason that an oil painter couldn't comment on a Poser graphic even if they didn't know how to turn a computer on. The other is criticism of technology. An expert at Poser will recognize that a person has done something unusual or original with a Poser graphic because of the technical difficult of doing that thing with a program that has some inherent limitations in it. What few criticisms I've seen of TigerShark's seem to perfectly fit in the first category. The ridiculous notion that only people who use Poser should be allowed to comment on Poser graphics is very narrow minded and self limiting. Just as an oil painter can learn about light and shadow from a water colorist, or form from a sculpture, a Poser artist should be able to be open to suggestions from someone coming from another point of view. But of course many people want to do basically the same graphic over and over again to the anticipated and predictable applause each time. If you only want a standing ovation, then you should say so up front on your graphics. And,of course, knowing your audience's tastes and meeting them is why the gallery has so many identical looking pictures, but originality and imagination has nothing to do with this. And if you can't take criticism, turn off the comment area. In fact, I'm going to do that now to get off this thread.

OT: Momcat - what a totally groovy site! :) (sorry, couldn't just let it pass by, lol)

Thank you! >^_^

I agree with Momcat. Now, maybe the "tone" was a little blunt but the actual criticism was actually, what seemed to me, pretty helpful.

In a world filled with causes for worry and anxiety...
we need the peace of God standing guard over our hearts and minds.
 
Jerry McCant

"The best kind of criticism is to take a completed work, improve on it, and then tell what you did." - spurlock5 Once again, if you'll excuse me being pedantic, that is not criticism so much as mentoring. True criticism is not really intended to help the artist at all. It is intended to help the viewer/reader. That is certainly the case with professional criticism, it may be a bit different in practice here. But we are dealing with someone who is allegedly coming from a professional position. The best kind of criticism, as I have seen and read it, is criticism that opens up a picture to interpretations you didn't realise were there, and brings you to an awareness of the details of the structure of a work which again, may have passed you by. Of course, in the case of an artwork that is totally shallow, the critic can have nothing to say other than to point out the emptiness of it all. Even that can be informative. But this is meant for the reader, not the artist.

chuck - fretshredder is a good example - in his "Persephone" image the comments were in regards to his "perception" of the character and not in regards to the art itself. That's not an art critique that is looking for something to pick at imo. And yes momcat is totally correct it is more his approach than anything else. Momcat!! you changed your site!! Looks good!

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Attached Link: http://www.derm.med.ed.ac.uk/teaching/redhairgen.htm

You're not up to date on the research. The Hittites predate the Greeks and Romans by a long shot, their civilisation went down with the end of the Bronze age, no longer existed during Classical Greece, it was contemporary with the Mycaneans, Minoans, and Bronze Age Egypt. They spoke an Indo-european language. They were the main competitor with Egypt, the 'other' superpower, if you will. Ramses II even took a wife from a Hittite king, and the Hittites were already in decline during Ramses II. Some Turks are very fair skinned, depending on where they are from, there's even a Turkish family in my very town that you couldn't tell from Germans until they start speaking Turkish. People from the Black Sea area are rather fair. So, your comment is still not accurate. Redhaired people existed in Egypt, fair skinned people existed in Egypt long before the Greeks and Romans, Ramses II's hair even tested to be red and naturally wavy. This predates the Greco-Roman age by a long shot, and you still see fairer people living in countries such as Morocco, where the population is 40 percent Berber (the original population) Genetic testing of mummies show that the people of Lower Egypt share more in common with their y chromosome markers with other Mediterreanean peoples than they do with people from subsaharan Africa. Makes sense, as all these peoples were maritime cultures and traded often, it makes sense they intermingled too. Redhaired people evolved somewhere around 50,000 years ago, and most likely, the trait evolved in Africa first. It is a genetic "defect" to have red hair, a redhaired person is lighter skinned than other family members without red hair, as most redheads lack the ability to produce eumelanin, which causes the black/brown colouration in the skin (depending on whether they got a double dose of the gene or not, will influence how strong the lack of eumelanin is, the red hair and freckles are caused by the phaeomelanin, which is red and is still produced by a redhead). So red haired people do not necessarily have to be Europeans, even though they have lighter skin. It is simply a melanin mutation. Syrians have always been portrayed as white in Egyptian art, the Syrians also predated the Greco-Roman culture, this was also in the Bronze age. Berbers STILL live in lower Egypt, and many of them have Caucasian features and lighter hair, some even with blue and hazel eyes, though they have intermixed considerably with the Arab population by now... they are not originally Arabs, they do not speak a Semitic language either. (remember, the Hyksos invaded after the Old Kingdom...) There have even been redhaired mummies found in western China. Read up... those Scythian tribes got around, with horses. Where do you think everyone miraculously got horses from, an animal native to the steppes of Asia? They didn't run to the Sahara in the Bronze age on their own power. on the other hand, black people also existed in Egypt the entire time, and there were a few obviously black dynasties as well, even during the Old Kingdom, where the blossoming of the civilisation was closer to the Sudan than to the Mediterreanean, in Upper Egypt. Though most of the pharoahs were obviously Semitic in origin, not all of them were, Ancient Egypt totally lacked our modern hangups on race and was most certainly a multi-ethnic society. Now, if you are going to critique a picture, do it on the technical problems you see, not whether some figure fits your racial stereotype of what an Egyptian should 'look' like to you. An Egyptian, even from the Old Kingdom, could have been white, brown, or black, as it was then, as it is NOW, a multi-racial and multi-ethnic society.

.

In a world filled with causes for worry and anxiety...
we need the peace of God standing guard over our hearts and minds.
 
Jerry McCant

Just further - I had a look at the picture by LadySilverMage that was commented on as being "too vertical", and it seems to me that the comments complained of were very reasonable and politely expressed. The only thing wrong would seem to be that they didn't say "Awesome!" like all the others. I disagree that ivy would help the image any, but I do feel that the composition of the image isn't working as it should. And I would be inclined to note that the girl seems to be stepping into saturated copper sulfate solution rather than water. Bright blue water is a Poserism that usually comes from using ineffectual Poser water props. But when the picture goes out into the wide wide world it has to fend for itself, and people are going to say "But water doesn't LOOK like that!" But I've largely given up making comments like that, because people accuse you of being a troll just for not praising everything.

Attached Link: http://www.absolutearts.com/artsnews/2001/06/23/28746.html

and here's an article about 'gingerella' a naturally mummified redhaired Egyptian from 3200 years ago. So much about redhaired Egyptians. Of course they existed, and existed from way back. I agree Phantast about the critic about the image from Lady Silvermage, but a critic can scare off a newbie to the galleries here, and so comments have to be handled differently then. A better thing is to have a forum gallery that is expressly for comment and critique, that way people that post there have AGREED to have a critique beforehand. I'd really like to see something like that here.

Phantast - as I stated I don't personally care if all my comments are "awesome" obviously you don't know me very well lol Nor did I say he wasn't polite in his wording. My issue is that the comments on several other images were based not on art but on personal preference and that it was obvious he had intended to simply hit the galleries and critique - not to view and critique when needed but to critique all he saw with comments enabled. Some of his critiques were simply not art based but based on his perception of how it should look. That is when I became annoyed - not because of his opinion of my image but because he flooded the gallery with his opinions and that several were simply not based on the art itself. That water may indeed need work - but not reflections - I didn't like them and won't add them again now. As for the vertical nature - I make no apologies, that's what I wanted and ergo that is what I did. I often fill the backgrounds in some manner and try to soften straight lines - in this image I simply chose not to as I wanted nothing to break the vertical lines. He/you/anyone/everyone may not agree with that - doesn't matter one whit to me, it's my concept that it be vertical with only the slight diagonal of the nebulas and the slight horizontal of the cloth. That is how I saw it therefore that is what I did - no excuses needed. Anyone can disagree with my concept others may agree - but don't accuse me of preferring only positive feedback - my ego simply isn't that tender.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

...and I thought was scathing back in my trolling days.

I read some of his posts and I agree with Momcat : 1- When he criticizes art, his critiques are not uninteresting and do offer some propositions for improvement 2- A good thing he could do would be to offer positive criticism : telling what was good is as important as pointing out the faults 3- When he criticizes other things than pure art, his opinions are more debatable 4- The initial attitude was a bit blunt and could use some softening. End of my critiques on his critiques. (PS : Momcat : fun site indeed ! Meow !)

LadySilverMage - I wasn't really meaning to criticise you personally for only wanting positive comments, though it probably reads like that. I do get the impression that there are certainly some who don't regard any comments other than fulsome praise as acceptable, which is why I generally comment very infrequently (not just here, at other sites also). So pitching in to your picture above was an example of the Gilbert & Sullivan song: "This is what I never do - this! and this! and this! and this!" I think it's not so much the vertical lines, which do have the diagonal of the cloth as contrast, as you say, not to mention the strong horizontals at the bottom of the picture. I think the remark about the dead centre figure is more apposite, though heaven knows that's not normally a problem. Maybe it's the centred figure combined with the pillars at the extreme edges and the unrelieved black in between that makes me uneasy. I dunno - I'm not a critic! :)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=468029

To each his own that's how it should be - as a point I have uploaded the original version of this image - with the reflections and the horizontal plant life. So compare and comment to your hearts content. I still prefer the plain one, although I have agreed all along that the water needs "something" I'm just not sure it's the reflections per sec.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Personally, I think critiques should be purely technical..ie. camera position/lighting/perspective, things of that nature. Whether anyone likes the "idea" behind the pic, quite frankly I don't care. It's your idea & as everyone has stated art is all suject to the creators imagination. Technical issues is where I need a lot of help. As an artists friend of mine said...most supposed critics usually try to turn your intial image into something they envision as what the piece/story should tell. Just my 2cents.

I don't comment too often on artwork here. I do it sometimes when it's posted in the forum and requested (and if the person is newbie enough that I think my small offering can help). But I've long since stopped commenting in the galleries because it seems to have become a place where one posts something to get accolades (only). From my point of view, similar to dialyn's, a critic can look at art from the technical point of view (I mean things like balance, composition, whatever that is called that refers to dividing the "canvas" into thirds, some other geometrical devices for composition, etc.). It works the same no matter how the piece was "drawn". So, comments based on the time-proven theories are, well, more "factual" in basis. On the other hand, as mentioned above, I think any critic can make remarks about their interpretation of a piece. If couched in the terms of, "Have you thought about this?" or "To me, it seems like it needs..." or "Personally, I don't like the trees in this piece.". I don't see anything wrong with a person expressing some personal ideas about what they think might improve a piece. I like to hear them because it might be something I never considered adding or removing. A fresh viewpoint. So, I don't get bothered or insulted by those kinds of suggestions. And if one is given to one of you and it is completely NOT what you were trying to do with your piece, just ignore it.

And if one is given to one of you and it is completely NOT what you were trying to do with your piece, just ignore it.... Chuck that is probably the single best piece of advice to give here. :-) While in my case I did not agree with some of the comments made, I did not get frazzled by them either. Just kind of took it with a grain of salt and moved on :-) Keep rockin' /gz

LOL Not one comment...hmmmm. Yer welcome to drop on by. Spit's the name and I'm a Poserholic!

Well I've spoken to your lovely moderator Lyrra ...quite the outspoken lady. She has requested that I stick to invited critiques for the moment and 'watch my manners'. So I shall endeavor to be a wee bit more softly spoken ... although it is not something I am especially good at. By and large when I view an image, I approach it like any image in any medium. I am not looking at technical capability, but artistic capability. The images (Egypt and Persephone) I mentioned the disparity beteen title and content only because of the title. If they had been named differently I most likely would not have mentioned it. The title is part of the image .. pure and simple. So I shall start at my list of volunteers, and you may see what I have to say. If you wish your work critiqued, by all means contact me. But if your are afraid of a little nip from an old Shark? Then you may stay safely away from me. After all ..you are the ones who smelled blood in the water. TigerShark

Yes, this is Lyrra's forum! (LOL...just kidding. But she does give leeway when it's due and gets firm when things have gone too far. When things get to that state, she doesn't tiptoe) Welcome to what I hope is a fresh start, TS.

Maybe im nubie in 3d or graphic area , but ive been 15 years in music , and i think music and graphics have lot similiarity . Critic still need for people who start learning or maybe for expert , but u cant make everyone have same visions with you about how to make this ..this.. and this.. told someone bout lack of light.. color .. compositions.. same with told rock musicians how to play guitar with softly . Im not said rock guitarist wrong with softly kind , but thats not they to go for and maybe want... Everyone have style and heart and u never know what their visions bout art , no matter thats music , graphic or anything

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=Caly

Hi. I honestly want to improve, and appreciate comments that hold suggestions and help me learn. I have to admit though that my main Gallery is actually over at Poserpros.com, where I am Calypso.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

"I had mistakenly thought this to be a site for serious artists to communicate and improve their works" Actually it is a site for hobby artists, as well as serious artist. "By and large when I view an image, I approach it like any image in any medium. I am not looking at technical capability, but artistic capability." Artistic capability? You mention that you cannot do art so how can you really honestly judge this? Art as you should know is in the eye of the beholder. I do what pleases me and luckily it works for my clients as well. " But if your are afraid of a little nip from an old Shark? Then you may stay safely away from me. After all ..you are the ones who smelled blood in the water." Nahh we smelled something else in the water.. not sure what tho. I am not afraid of your critiques.. Don't have to be. My buisness is fine and your critiques of my work would not bother me in anyway shape or form nor would it make me change anything. SOooo i give you permission to go ahead and critique my gallery. Take yer best shot.. Won't hurt me in the least :)

BUT, Stormy, what IF he mentions something you had not thought of? I understand that EVERYONE here has a vision in their mind about what they want to create. Maybe it's like a virgin that isn't allowed to be touched. (what do I know, right?) BUT, what if he suggests to add this or that or that a particular item looks out of place...or needs a different color? Or that it's out of balance? Or might be better by adding (fill in the blank)? What's wrong with that? Even if you are selling your art so much that you can't keep up with the demand...what's wrong with listening to an opinion? If you disagree with the comments, continue as you were. Simple. I guess my remarks are partly due to the fact that I'm not very good. So, I relish the opportunity for anyone to make a comment. Perhaps if I was a great artist like some others are, I would grow an ego that would shut off any outside suggestions. I kind of doubt it but perhaps that is what has happened to so many other successful artists here...their head has grown so big that there is no room left for a differing opinion. Not ranting at you, Stormy, just using your comment as an excuse to try and make my point. After all, you DID invite his critique.

gaaaaaaaaah, maybe this post it'll get it stop sending a 1,000 email notifications there's been a reply

From the Artist page of TigerShark..."I have volunteered my service as a critic here, since there seems to be a need." I don't recall anyone saying we needed a critic here.

Perhaps no one DID request a critic. But, considering the number of people in the thread who have "granted permission" for his perusal, I'm not sure everyone hates the thought of a critic.

Actually I've read that some people get tired of all the "you're great, you're wonderful, you're perfect" postings and would like a more honest reaction from viewers. Yet when someone gives what is presumably an honest reaction, that isn't a complete rave review of a graphic, then we immediately say he or she is a troll, and get defensive that they just don't understand your aristic and perfect vision. Maybe that's because your artistic vision wasn't communicated very well. Maybe that's because, gee whiz, not everyone has the same tastes and what you think is the greatest art on earth is just the same old nudie to someone else. The fact is that the galleries will never be more than amateur time (and I don't care if you are selling professionally or not...a lot of bad and mediocre writers get paid for their work and a lot of bad and mediocre artists manage to do the same) until you can weigh a criticism and perhaps admit to yourself that there is area for improvement. And we can all improve because no one here is perfect no matter what our delusions are. Some, like me, have greater opportunities to improve than others, but there is no one, and I do mean no one, here than couldn't learn something new. Fortunately the gift of my low status as an artist is that I have the delights of much to learn. I feel sorry for those of you who think you can ever stop learning and still be considered an artist. Art is all about growth and change. When you stagnate, your art dies. And sometimes a critic can open your eyes to what you didn't see before...I agree with Chuck there (and with a lot more that he said but he already said so I'm not repeating it). Now maybe I can get off this thread. I can't seem to stop getting the stupid ebot notifications either. Trying again.

as i am a total beginenr in most/every different fields/disciplin sand skills involved into 3d art and poser render, and i only began to even touch a paint software in early may of this year 2003, i kno wi cannot in such a short time reach the level of many good people on renderosity, most of them who impress my being in fact professionnal with years of experience... i am a hobbyist, i do what i do for educationnal purpose, enjoyement and that's all... i dont think a mere entertainement/hobby really NEEDS profesionnal criticisme as i do not care /plan to sell things or find a job in this area. (but when i see art over from latest iron maiden, album, see thread on this topic, i see i can even hope reahing such a "professionnal" level :p) now for some lesson about social behavior: i do not even try to criticise someone who works in a arean/field i do not master myself, or at least have some infos and documentations, and most of all, something i am not able to even try myself to do :) so leave the unskilled cheesy beginners alone pliz

If you have read all through the thread, Riddokun, you will see your request to leave the "unskilled cheesy beginners" alone has already been adopted. BUT, if he DID drop by and offer some thoughts about your work, wouldn't it have the chance of helping even though you are a hobbyist? After all, whether you are a "pro" or just a person doing it for fun, wouldn't you like to get some pointers to help make you do it better? Just a thought. NOT a rant and not a criticism.

I think the main problem with having your work criticized here, is that this critiques are usually made right in the gallery, right under your beloved pic, so that any passer by will see the picture, then read the critique just after and they will think "this needs a lot of improvement" whereas they would perhaps have thought "wow ! Great !". When I think I can say something to improve on an image, I don't post this advice in the gallery : I give positive advice in the gallery (outlining what I like), and then send a personal IM to the author about what I thought could be improved. I found that it bruised less toes, and no one complained or call me a troll (even people who did not agree with my opinion). Just my 2 eurocents.

well usually i rather learn from people who do make pictures i "envy" the look or technics and that impress me. That is why renderosity is interesting because people take some time to help the others. when i went on galleries of people who left comment of one of my pic, i was ashame cause they left good comment yet their own art was really putting me below the ground :) but when i have time i frankly ask a few advices or things abotu other's work '(as long as i do not ask about a secret :) i sure am longing to advices and positive criticisme, but i sure wouldnt stand the "advices" and criticismes of someone who yet never struggle with Poser limitations. one thing that already pains me enoguh is to see that most japanese website contributors to gallery simply use real renders withotu postwork (it seems to be a rule for them) and i really would like to know the basis and knowledge of poser to make such good "raw renders", aside from even postworking it.

Tigershark: It's probably been said earlier, but I'll say it again: people don't post their images to get "constructive criticism", they post images to get glowing remarks. Look at any image and you'll see comments like "so cute" and "love what you've done with it" and "beautiful". If anyone so much as says, "the pose is un-natural", that person is labeled a troll for their negative comments. Most people seem to have a very thin skin and respond to negative 1 of 2 ways:

• If you don't have a gallery, you are in no position to critique other people's work. Using this logic, you may not critique the movie "X-Men" unless you yourself have made a major multi-million dollar Hollywood movie based on a comic book series. Similarly, you are also not allowed to critique a CD unless you yourself have had a recording career and know how to sing professionally.
• If you do post a negative comment that is really negative, the "artist" may get so upset that she'll post a message about how she's quitting Renderosity and no one will ever see her again. Her friends will then jump in and tell her that her images are very good, to not pay attention to that awful troll, and not to leave.

"If you do post a negative comment that is really negative, the "artist" may get so upset that she'll post a message about how she's quitting Renderosity and no one will ever see her again. Her friends will then jump in and tell her that her images are very good, to not pay attention to that awful troll, and not to leave. " lol Actually I've seen the male members here get aggravated by that and remove their entire galleries :-P~~ (just teasing ya since you used the term "she" and we all know that it applies to both sexes)

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

"I think the main problem with having your work criticized here, is that this critiques are usually made right in the gallery, right under your beloved pic, so that any passer by will see the picture, then read the critique just after and they will think "this needs a lot of improvement" whereas they would perhaps have thought "wow ! Great !"." WHOA. That is terribly selfish. Criticism benefits not only the maker of the image, but other viewers as well by raising their awareness. Heaven forbid we should have viewers who understand what they're seeing? The better the viewer, the harder we work, the better we do.

About the Egyptian picture.. I made it and let me make some points: 1. The lightning was of a blueish color which made her skin look pale or caucasian. It is bronze. Take a look at Product Showcase and the image I made. 2. From TigerShark: "And a last note on the Egyptian piece - the hieroglyphs on her arm are 1st and 2nd dynasy, predating any graeco/roman contact and therefor highly unlikely for a caucasian Queen. If the title had been 'Goth Princess' I wouldn't have mentioned it. (incidentaly the 'glyphs spell the word 'goat' which I thought quite funny)" Thanks, but the full tattoo wraps around her arm which means "power" on one side and on her other arm, "beauty". I didn't like your critique nor did I like bijouchat's "critique the critic" on my image either. It's just not the place to "argue" or whatever on someone's images. I personally don't like being critiqued by strangers, or at least by you, Tigershark. So.. don't. Am I sensitive? Yes, but who cares, that's my personalilty. If I need a critique, I'll ask my friends here at Renderosity, people who actually have art in their gallery. kk thx la~ And besides, no one said that it was a picture from any type of era, or to be exact in the representation of Egyptian people.. that's probably why I put it in 'fantasy' gallery. hehe

This critic's manerism, typing style, and character seem to remind me of an old member with the initials 'RK'. That is my thought ctitique of the words that I have read and, of course, is my opinion only.

Sorry but i once checked the "notice by email for reply" on this thread, but now i woudl rather stop gettign notices.. how can i do that ?

Uncheck the box for notifications. Further, if that doesn't work, there will only be futre ebots if you continue to visit the thread. If you don't revisit, there will be no more ebots except maybe one.

TMGraphics, if it's the RK I'm thinking of, I disagree. I started to list the differences but suffice it to say, the style isn't the same IMHO. Thie mods would have had to kill this thread by now if that were the case :-) I agree that perhaps critiques should be private (depends on how the recipient feels), but I seriously doubt that any of the personas here would let their opinion of a piece be influenced by someone elses. Of course, I don't know how many people here went to see Gigli. I do love the review by one critic who said that after watching Gigli, he had to cleanse his palate by watching Glitter. Tigershark's bite can't possibly be that bad.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Ouch!

Well, one simple solution, since the gallery seems to have become a place for receiving "pats on the back" instead of a place where people can do what the caption says and provide critiques...just have that remark removed from the "boilerplate" page display and if people want critiquing, they can state so in their posting.

@Imckenzie - You are probably correct about the RK thing. It almost resembles that person though. I think the best critics are the ones that say 1st-something good about the image, 2nd-point out what could use a little more work (from their point of view), and 3rd-finish up with a 'great job so far, keep up the good work' speech! ~my 2 pennies TMG