Poser Artist is now available by electronic download from the Curious Labs webstore, with boxed product available both direct and through local resellers in early October.

Curious Labs, Inc. rolls out this new product name and future plans for the Poser 4 technology with Poser Artist. The Poser 4 technology, still widely requested and used by artists new to the 3D world and Academic Institutions teaching art, especially in K through 12 classes will benefit from the continued availability of the Poser 4 technology within Poser Artist. Poser Artist will continue with new technology updates for this new division of Poser throughout the upcoming years ahead. And upgrades from Poser Artist to Poser 5 will be made available.

If you already own Poser 4, you will not benefit from Poser Artist. You would rather benefit from a Poser 5 Upgrade which will offer the many new features and content available.

Kind regards,
Katherine

Hehe I GOTTA ask... Doesn't this belong in PS? Still haven't quite understood what "Poser Artist" is. Is it just a new name for P4? or PPP?

With all the merchants having to move threads to Product Showcase shouldn't this be too? glad Artist is available, maybe I can now get poser 4 er Artist cheap. If I create something in Artist will Poser 4/5 users have problems opening files with a messege? or is this just like having Poser 4.03?

. (bookmark)

...enough said...

I agree. In all fairness to all parties, this post belongs in Product Showcase.

I have to agree. Either commercial posts are allowed or they aren't. Currently it's only excluding Renderosity merchants.

...... Kendra

'In all fairness to all parties, this post belongs in Product Showcase' I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with everyone above. Poser is the base program that everyone in this forum has in common and an announcement of a new version is of interest to every forum user. I'm not in favor of touting products in here, but this is something of an event. And before anyone asks, yes, I think an annoucement of the DAZ|SAtudio beta realease would belong in here too. These are not 'optional extras'. These are the basic tools we all use. Having said that, I couldn't give a flying FAQ about Poser Artist. It's of no interest whatsoever to me. But if it keeps CL above the poverty-line and gives them an impetus to (Gasp! Shock! Horror!) work on some Poser 4 fixes, it'll be worth it. Respect to all who differ in opinion mac

Pretty please, move this thread.

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GET A LIFE PEOPLE. Sheesh. I agree with Maclean. Whiners. :(

and who is to define what an "essential product" is? Some may argue that M3 would be an essential product in the near future...but the M3 threads were booted too. But I personally think people should get over this witch hunt of which thread should and should not be allowed here. It is ridiculous. Let all the posts stay, and let the moderators do as THEY will...everyone else can just butt out. (btw....I read Draz's comment as tongue-in-cheek...to point out the irony...but thats just how I saw it) Rawnrr

Whiners??! The Rules have been established, there was a recent post that the rules were going to be enforced. I hate being called names, don't you? I am so sick to death of the attacks, personal pointing of fingers, rule breaking and eiletist attitude when there is no need. I'm completely offended, I think I'll just go away and then you won't have to hear me bitch and whine and you can be all happy and gleeful. I'm done, life is way to damn short for this crap.

Rawnrr, my comment was indeed intended as a sarcastic poke ;)

"Poser Artist is now available by electronic download from the Curious Labs webstore" - and what a mess that store is. I can't see Poser Artist, but if I knew German I could buy Poser 4 for 99 Euros, apparently.

"I couldn't give a flying FAQ about Poser Artist" Quote of the week. :) Ok, I disagree, because of the way the other merchants have been booted off here for announcing their own commercial products. In truth, I think none of them should have been moved, but there you go. It seems simple enough to me. The thread was an announcement directly related to the release of a commercial product, so it should be moved from here. And no, I'm not gonna sulk if it isn't, I would merely like to see a little fairness here.

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Oh boy! Can't we all just have our opinions without arm-wrassling and name-calling. 'and who is to define what an "essential product" is?' Well asked, rawnrr. I'd say 'essential' covers the company who makes that software that every single person in this forum uses. I take your point about Mike, but I don't have any version of Mike at all, and have no intention of purchasing him. I'm not saying the Mike threads should be booted. I read them myself. Just that they don't apply to the entire community. I reckon a CL thread does. And just to take up another point, it's not so long ago that many people in this community were howling because 'CL doesn't post here, and they don't listen to the users anymore'. Well, now they've posted and nobody likes it? What is THAT about??? mac

PS And if Drax can see a bit of humor in the situation, that should teach us all a lesson. LOL. mac

This is/was the "POSER" forum or did I click the wrong link. It isn't the DAZ etc. etc. etc. forum or is it?

"Well, now they've posted and nobody likes it? What is THAT about???" I'd say it was perfectly consistent with the overall philosophy of the Poser forum.

The thread was an announcement directly related to the release of a commercial product, so it should be moved from here' Hmmm..... well, I didn't hear anyone complaining when they were announcing Poser 5 on this forum. It may be related to a commercial product, but as I pointed out, there isn't one of us who doesn't use that product. It's not like it's an option. If you're a member of the Poser Forum, (in theory) you need to have a copy of Poser. The announcement of a new Poser product concerns us all. (Well.... a rehashed poser product in a shiny new box, and probably costing less than we all paid for it) mac

LOL@dialyn. mac

I looked at the CL site and seems they are spinning P4 as "Artist" since all it's features are what P4 is and does/did. So it looks like P4 is now got a cool "New" name and a low price. As for the rest of it I could care less where they post it. since I've pretty much had my fill of all this hype and holier than thou/ real 3d artists. CL is attemptinng to save their Backsides. good luck!

Gee what have I started? I DID write "hehe".....

well I have to agree.this is product placement,maybe I'll post an ad in here today.

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"Hmmm..... well, I didn't hear anyone complaining when they were announcing Poser 5 on this forum." Actually they did Mac, however they were told then by the Mods that anything Curious Labs announces about the Poser Product belongs here in the Poser Forum. This is the Poser Forum! It is not the Daz Forum, it belong to all that use Poser. When Daz gets there Daz/Studio out then I'm sure they will get a Forum here too and can announce what they want there. Just like E-on does in the Vue Forum. The software provider of the Forum is relevant to that Forum.

M3 essential? Okay, try this. Open Poser and tell me you need M3 to do that. Now try to open M3 without Poser. 'Nuff said, okay? It's our core platform and will be until such time (if ever) that Studio is released. So people, GET A LIFE AND MOVE ON. All of your wonderful products are useless without the software to run them, understand?

Let me make myself perfectly clear... I have no objection to CL announcing their Shiny New Product/Emperor's New Clothes in this forum, so long as ... Other merchants are given the same privelege. There has been a lot of controversy recently about what is acceptable here, and as far as my poor aging grey matter can make out, directly plugging a "for sale" product in this forum is a great big fat hairy no-no. Neftis got his/her thread moved because it was deemed commercial, and likewise most if not all the M3 related threads. So, let's see some even handedness here.

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Well, If other merchants create the product this forum is ABOUT then they can post all they want. And Dialyn...this forum is made up of different people. Some object to certain things, others don't, AND THEY'RE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. There's no inconsistancy.

I agree with sam all or none fair is fair

Sirkrite, OK, you're right about DAZ announcing here. I take back my comment on that. I guess if DAZ could announce here, then anyone should be able to. But I still think CL should be able to. Spit, I understood dialyn's comment to be sarcasm. Maybe wrongly, but I thought she was pointing out the wild mood swings of this community towards certain topics. If not, I laughed at the wrong thing.... but I got a laugh out it anyway, which is always beneficial. mac mac

First, I want to say I no interest in Poser Artist, whatever forum it's announced in. I have P4/PPP. Second, my opinions over what should or shouldn't be in the Product Showcase have nothing to do with this statement(I couldn't care less about the PS, btw). Third, the is the POSER forum. It's about POSER. Announcements from the company that sells POSER should indeed be allowed in here. Without the Poser company, there is no Poser forum.

Hi I agree that this 'witch hunt' is getting stupid... but... in my opinion I like the 'format' ie CL has put up 1 and 1 only anouncement thread and it should be left at that. The same should be also true for the other people who post products a single message anoucement then the thread is locked that way we get to see whats new and you don't get massive threads with every other frame showing of the product from a different angle , view etc. I for one like to see what people/companies are doing and not have to go looking for adverts. Dave (just an idea!)

btw Thanks for the announcement CL ;-)

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

well, I clicked on this thread in the poser forum, but suddenly fing myself in the product showcase forum, talk about strange timing :) so, now I'm at a loss on a proper response, don't want to take the thread off topic for whichever forum I'll be in when I hit the reply button

Wether the original question regarding the location of this post was meant in jest or not, the question itself is relevant. Yes, this is the Poser Forum. We all understand that it revolves around Poser. We also understand that 'commercial' posts have been removed from this forum, and moved to Product Showcase, where they (in most opinions) belong. Therefore, this announcement, regardless of where it came from, being a commercial announcement, belongs in Product Showcase. Why? Because they are trying to sell Poser to people who don't HAVE it. This announcement is of little to no importance to people who USE Poser, which is supposed to be the focus of this Forum. Were this an announcement about Poser 5 SR4, then certainly, post it here. That's important to current Poser 5 users. Had it come from someone other than Curious Labs, I might also have let it slide, as it would likely be a Poser user keeping us informed of current events. However, as I stated, this is a product release announcement coming directly from the vendor. It is therefore a commercial, and therefore, by the logic set forth by Renderosity, belongs in Product Showcase. I too dislike being called names, and try to refrain from doing so to others. This is not a 'whine', this is a desire to see rules leveled equally among all, regardless of who you happen to be. I wouldn't care if DAZ released Studio tomorrow...the official announcement would belong in Product Showcase. If Microsoft bought out CL and DAZ and integrated every product currently in both stables into Windows XP Advanced Server 2005 Second Edition Plus, wonderful. Annoucement from Microsoft goes to Product Showcase. I don't advertise here, nor do many other merchants. Everyone, or no one, make a decision and stick to it. Period. CT

Hey everyone, Thank you CL for posting this excellent news :) Hey everyone - thanks to you also for your input - I was away fixing dinner, so could not move the thread from the Poser Forum to the Showcase Forum until now ;] Thanks for your understanding! Sincerely, ladynimue

Chrome Tiger, Very well put. I'm almost inclined to reverse my opinion and agree with you. I can see the logic of differentiating between a product and a service release, which I hadn't thought on. But in the end, I still believe it should have been left in the poser forum as being of general interest to every Poser user. No matter. It's been moved by a MOD, so that's their decision. I'm not much into name-calling either. I can live with people who disagree with me. It's no big hardship. LOL. cheers to all mac

PS Ladynimue - How dare you go off and fix dinner?? LOL. Deserting your post is a capital offence and punishable by banishment to the OT forum. mac

Sorry mac ... I confess that sometimes other-non-cyber things just get in the way of our Mod Duties - Hope you can forgive us ;] ladynimue

I forgive you. Just as long as this eating doesn't become a habit. Once a week is more than enough for MODs. mac

".........general interest to every Poser user." every product I make fall in that catagory- hehehe I wish :)

So Katherine......can you tell if the dang thing will interface with Vue d'Esprit? Sorry to be a broken record about this, but I'm tired of waiting for Eon or CL to get it done in P5.

The beta of Vue 4.2 is available (check the Vue forum). It imports Poser 5 pz3

Thanks Spit! I'll check it out.

Thankjs spit :) better news than Artist anyway....

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Curious_Labs; ever get the feeling that coming to Rendo these days is kinda like 'feeding the piranhas'? Your lucky if you still have all ten digits after clicking "Post Reply"!!

hmmmmm..One..Two...Three...Four...Five...Six...Seven...Eight...Nine..... ...... ????...!!!! HEY!!! Which One Of YOU......!!!?!

.

Sorry, igohigh, that was me - I was trying to follow Dr Geep's hand posing tutorial and broke Vicky's finger, so since you have (er had) such elegant digits....

Attached Link: http://www.iw43d.com/Poser/Poser_Specials/Specials_Holiday.htm

Holy Crap! Ya' mean I've been posting all my stuff in the wrong place... AGAIN?! I even know how to read so I think I should be a little embarrassed. Wonder why no one has yelled at me yet. I've been scolded before... more than once. Maybe people have left me alone 'cuz they just think I'm a cretin and feel sorry for me... Waddaya think? Call me crazy, but I thought the Product Showcase forum was to talk about products people are showcasing; announcing releases of; or just "showin' off" their "stuff"! ;) Oh well, someday I'll get it right. In any event, I'm sorry if I've been out of step with the rest of the world. Wouldn't be the first time. (it stands to reason I'm also left handed! ;) BTW: Wishing a Happy Holiday to ALL OF YOU! Cheers! Pam Oh, in case you missed my post, we're having a great sale this weekend! :O lol (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Why dont they release poser 3 again and call it "poser kindergarden" :-/

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Because it's already been given away on too many magazine covers and IIRC is available as a free downlaod (although in German). Although what they're doing isn't doing US any direct good, rebranding a product as a low-end/cheap version of the product line once they have a new high-end isn't exactly revolutionary - even if they could have done a slightly better/neater job of it (IMHO). Trying to sell Poser 3 or lower for more than the price of a mag would border on at least feeling like they were trying to con people. Everyone like the way CL's site describes "Poser Artist" as "Poser Artist is the premiere 3D character and figure design solution for artists and animators" (Full feature Details page). What does THAT say about Poser 5?

LMFAO

Katherine, Please remember that there are many people at this website who actually like and use the various CuriousLabs products and who are glad to hear that the company is continuing to work at improving them and even marketing them to a wider audience. We might not be vociferous, but we are here. Growing and improving the basic software we all use is an advantage to everyone here, whether they admit it or not. "Poser Artist" might get more beginners and students interested in creating scenes full of figures. If so, it will bring more buyers into a Marketplace which has too many products and not enough purchasers. Some of them might turn pro themselves and continue the legacy of passing on learning and tools and products to the next crop of newbies. One of the tech companies probably offers a pair of asbestoes-lined kevlar gloves (what do firemen wear?), but they must be difficult to type in. I wish that I could offer a solution. Carolly

Wow! $99 for Poser Artist! What a DEAL! And i bet it even works as good as P4! Oh, yeah. It IS P4. But $99 is a good price! But wait... definitly WAIT. If they do with Poser Artist what they did for P5, it'll be discounted in less than a month. Then discounted again less than a month later! Don't expect any refunds though. CL doesn't do refunds. Of course, someone is offering P4 for the Mac at EBay for $5 right now. But hey! Don't worry! P6's developement cycle is estimated at 1 year, and they've already started! P6 in a YEAR! Wow! And they say it'll have all the things in P5 fixed and working! But what about P5? Oh yeah. P5 SR4 is being worked on too. No date on that though... Or on what they choose to fix this time. ...and did you know EGISYS is in bankruptcy? Sheesh...

I enjoy Poser.

I do not miss the forums at all. However, occasionally, I check back in.

Personally, I prefer watching political debate shows on TV. Less blood there.

Thanks, CL, for making an effort.

Something To Do At 3:00AM

I love Poser - yes, even Poser 5 which mostly doesn't drive me too insane (although others may have different opinions). However I find it difficult to take seriously a company which falls over its virtual feet so often.

...and did you know EGISYS is in bankruptcy? And who said that or where did you read that?

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Mmm, unfortunately, I believe it's true. From the CL Q & A page. by MadYuri on August 18, 2003 1:15 How does the bankruptcy of Egisys affect the operations of Curious Labs? A by Curious Labs (Curious_Labs) on August 19, 2003 11:03 No, Curious Labs has not and will not be affected in any way. Curious Labs is a seperate entity to Egisys (legally and otherwise), and so is not affected by what happens in Egisys. Curious Labs has the resources to make new Poser product, and has a positive cash position, and so is stable. I would let you know that the process in Egisys is that of administration. We have been working on a solution to reorganise Egisys throughout this year, with the result that there are a few solutions available. All of these put the future focus of the company more on the Poser product and Curious Labs. The administrator is working on selecting the best solution and putting this into effect. The plans for the Poser product (Mac OSX, plugins, updates, etc.) are still being worked on by Curious Labs." mac

Thanks mac, I didn't see this before.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

encouraging, isn't it? err... It's a sad world where companies keep going belly-up - at an alarming rate. Someone somewhere must not know what they're doing, surely.

Hi -- sorry for a late reply -- I was out of the office. My mistake on the area to post the details of Artist. Still getting accustomed to forum communication. Many of you rightfully will not have interest in the rename/re-do of the Poser 4 box artwork to what is now Artist. One of the largest markets for Poser is the Academic market which again, many K-12 classes prefer still to get the Poser 4 technology which is the reason this decision has been made. Some may disagree, but many of the academic customers found the Poser 4 box art too provocative - especially in respect to the younger students. And having a Poser 4 and a Poser 5 product available within the Academic Channel caused more confusion. Development costs are currently being placed into the Poser 5 product line within CL which includes plug-in support. But this was a relatively easy yet useful change to help support the Educational Reseller partners. Hopefully this makes this change more clear. Kind regards, Katherine

Development costs are currently being placed into the Poser 5 product line Mistake :(

Seriously, I would be SO happy with a Poser 4.5!

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why mistake Spit? Don't we who bought Poser5 deserve a chance at having a usable program?

I personally am glad they've been putting development costs into Poser 5 since release - it's an AWFUL lot better now than it was on release.

3 service packs already and they're working on another. That's fine. But for ongoing development? Many of us. I'd venture to say a majority of us. Would much prefer a Poser 4.5 that is based on the faster code of Poser 4/propack and not bogged down with 'features' we have absolutely no use for.

It'll never happen, Spit. They even said they're not going to work on the core until Poser 6, so they don't even intend to fix 5. They probably just going to work on some more "issues." (oooh, I'm starting to hate that word)

Yeah, I know. :(

I suspect the closest you'll see to "Poser 4.5" will be the next major version of "Poser Artist" (if we ever GET a "Poser Artist 2" that is). Because reading between the lines it'd seem that future versions will likely be basically a version or two behind the main full price version of Poser. It's be quite unlikely for any vendor to do work on an obsolete/outdated product unless they believe they've got a significant market for it (by which I don't mean a fraction of the existing marketplace - us). IMHO they'd do better to follow previous promises and DAZ3D, and produce a new version from the ground up (as unlikely as that seems).

Hi, Please keep in mind that my statement of CL continuing development on Poser 5 is to mean all future releases planned, not just a service release. That of course means at some point, a new version as well. I hope this was stated a little more clearly. Kind regards, Katherine

bookmark. A new version of P5? This changes this from a SSDD thread to something a bit intriguing. I think I'll stay tuned.

Or by 'New Version' do you mean Poser 6?

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Hi, I'm not sure I said new version. Future release means all development in the cycle of a product. Check out the questions and answer from the Spotlight: http://www.renderosity.com/hostedforums.ez?hostedforum_id=90 There's talk of a service release for 5 as well as a plan for 6. Poser Artist will also be placed into development. It's speculation at this point to outline what this will entail which would not be useful information to offer until it's factual. Take care, Katherine

hi Katherine- I'd be nice if the things like cloth room- better lighting and such were add on modules for P4. One at a time things.

Sorry, I was confused. Since you mention future releases as being different than service releases, I thought that meant a new version of Poser 5, since 6 had not yet been brought up here.

Hi, No problem Momcat. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't offering confusing communication. Geoegress, I will definitely pass your idea onto the Product Manager to consider. Kind regards, Katherine

Katherine:- Nice to see you haven't been scared off. There's a rather nasty feeling among some of our members after the Q&A session that Poser 5 is entering it's "stable" period soon (by which I mean no more updates rather than any ability to perform on any particular machine) and that Poser 6 development will concentrate not so much on continuing the evolution of the product as on delivering a subset of what was actually promised for Poser 5. It's possible to get the impresison that the Poser 6 "target specification" is currently viewed as being "Poser 5 - but reliable". Given that even with SR3 (or SR4, when it comes) we apparently already have somewhat less than was promised by Curious Labs members in the past (the new animals comes to mind here as an ideal example, though "new code built from the ground up" can't be ignored) the thought of paying to upgrade to Poser 6 "just to get what we've already paid for" has not endeared CL to some P5 owners. By some I include myself, as when I saw this implication CL immediately lost considerable ground with me. While it's now clear that, whatever Curious Labs's original intentions with Poser 5, the feature set isn't going to be expanded during version 5 to include any promises made and taken by customers in good faith, I hope that CL have/will manage to see considerable room for feature expansion in Poser 6. Just releasing "a largely fixed Poser 5" and asking for money could cause more anger than you'd imagine!

Well I, for one, have found the p5 release to do everything I expected of it, and do it fairly well. It's fast, it's (for me) incredibly stable and has increased the efficiency of my workflow dramatically. To be honest? In the end my only real concern is this: Does Poser5 allow me to satisfy the needs of my clients and internal projects sufficiantly faster/better than p4 that it was worth the upgrade price? The answer is emphatically YES. Are people unhappy? Yup. Is that a bad thing? Sure. But does that constitute a complete failure of CL to deliver what is a substantial upgrade that is worth the price to many artists? Nope, not even close. When Poser6 comes out I will make exactly the same evaluation - is the price going to allow me to make more money or get more done in less time (and thus make more money). If the answer is "yes" I'll buy it, if "no" I won't. No reason to get all personal about it. To be honest, CL is suffering a MS effect. While many have legitimate complaints it is ALSO true that any product will eventually form a group of users who will simply never be happy with what they produce.

Have a care, soulhuntre.

You are making too much sense. You are being both reasonable and thoughtful.

That can be terribly irritating - at least, to some.

Something To Do At 3:00AM

Yeah, so I have noticed in the past. But then, the folks on Slashdot hate it when you interject facts into their anti-microsoft ranting too.

I agree with what you said soulhuntre but you are missing some of the facts. While people being "unhappy" doesn't constitute a complete failure of CL to deliver what is a substantial upgrade that is worth the price to many artists, it does to many others. You make it sound like people are unhappy simply because it's their nature. That isn't true for many (if not most) of us, we have legitimate problems with the core of 5. And it really doesn't matter if P5 sings and dances, it still isn't what was promised. It's just Poser4/ProPack with third-party plugins stapled onto the interface. I was very upbeat and positive about 5 when I first got it. As it became clear CL was just ignoring the fact that P4 problems weren't fixed, I became angry. I too stick up for Microsoft at times but they don't ignore serious problems or complaints about their software--they actually try to fix them. We were told Poser 4 problems would be fixed in 5; they weren't. Now we're being told Poser 5 problems would be fixed in 6. How do you expect those for whom 5 doesn't work well--or at all--to feel about that?

"You make it sound like people are unhappy simply because it's their nature."

For some people, that is completely true. No matter what CL ever does, no matter what Poser5 ever did they were going to be unhappy ... and be vocal about it.

I did NOT, however, say that was true for all, or even most, of those people with problems.

"it still isn't what was promised"

With few exceptions that impact how I and many others use the product I am not sure what was promised and not delivered. I am willing to learn of any substantial features that are not in the P5 as it stands now. Of course, even if it IS missing a major feature that I don't see, it is STILL a substantial upgrade that is to me and many worth the price.

And that's the bottom line >for me< (and I was always clear on who I was talking about). Poser is for me a tool and not a "cause". As a tool Poser5 is a significant one, and a fantastic upgrade over Poser4 in most of the areas I care about.

Was Poser5 seriously buggy on release? Yes.
Are there still bugs in Poser5? Yes, but the don't keep me from working. There are still bugs in Max and Lightwave, I use them anyway as well. No software is ever bug free.
Are the Poser5 users who are still experiencing problems? Of course there are. And they have legitimate reasons to complain I am sure.

None of that changes that Poser5 as it sits is for me and others stable and a substantial increase in capability from Poser4.

"It's just Poser4/ProPack with third-party plugins stapled onto the interface."

Staples, glue, duct tape... whatever works. Honestly I would have been pretty unhappy to see CL wasting it's time re-inventing the wheel on this stuff.

It is completely legitimate and reasonable to license a render engine.
It is completely legitimate and reasonable to license a hair engine.
It is completely legitimate and reasonable to license a facial morph engine.
It is completely legitimate and reasonable to license a soft body physics engine.

What possible advantage would there have been for CL to re-create all that code? Life is too short by far. I don't see any serious problems with the integration of the renderer, hair, cloth and face room. Do they work well with models that weren't designed for them? Heck no. However they do a pretty good job given the limits of the Poser model library legacy that they had to deal with.

Hell, 99% of what I do with Max is via "third party plugins" that are basically stapled onto that interface.

"don't ignore serious problems or complaints about their software--they actually try to fix them"

Funny, I have seen serious and continuing work on the part of CL to fix the Poser5 bugs. There have been multiple service releases made widely available that have squashed a serious portion of the bug list. If there are any universal "show stopper" bugs in the current version, please let me know so I can avoid them.... cause I simply don' run into them.

Personally? I think this is a pretty good time for CL to start looking to Poser6. That's probably selfish of course cause Poser5 works fine for me, and I don't see any substantial increases in ability possible till a new version happens.

If someone wants to show me that major "promised" features of Poser5 are either non existent or seriously broken as the software stands now feel free to do so. Of course, I would also like to know what made them think those features were promised in the first place.

I am not speaking for or about "everyone". I am speaking for me and my experience. Poser5 has substantially increased my capabilities and my work efficiency... and that has directly contributed to my ability to handle work for clients and out internal products, more than covering the price.

OK how about "built from the ground up"? Clearly Poser 5 is NOT a new build. It IS Poser 4 (pro) with some bells and whistles. Now don't get me wrong, my Poser 5 works as stable as my Pro Pack, only slower. It is pure conservatite lazyness that prevents me from skipping PPP G The point is that Poser 5 was touted as new written software, and it wasn't. You can't blame people for not believing what other things they might hear then. PS: And I do NOT consider myself as member of either the MS or the CL bashing groups. I LOVE both programs, I even speak nicely of WinME (best OS I ever had prior to XP) but I won't shut my mouth either just to please :o)

Im still waiting for the new animals that were supposed to be in poser5

Oh but they'll be in Content Paradise soon... Or something like that ;o)

@ soulhuntre - Well stated. VERY well stated.

As for the rest......try Tums....or Mylanta......there are numerous over-the-counter medicines for curing belly-aching.

Something To Do At 3:00AM

"OK how about "built from the ground up"?"

How about it. I don't particularly mind that. As a programmer I know that while sometimes tossing all the code out is a good idea - but on a huge/complex application that needs to retain compatibility and has a large user base it usually isn't the answer.

Starting over with a blank file for Poser5 would have been an insanely silly thing to do. Then again, I never saw anyone from CL say that they were going to do that.

"Clearly Poser 5 is NOT a new build. It IS Poser 4 (pro) with some bells and whistles."

A new render engine with significant new abilities (ray tracing, transparency, reflections, micropoly displacement and so on)
A full on new materials system
A full soft body dynamics engine
A full hair engine
An entirely new set of abilities for facial modeling
Dramatically improved library handling

Funny, those strike me as much, much more than a few "bells and whistles"... but maybe I am just easy to please.

"You can't blame people for not believing what other things they might hear then."

Well, I certainly can point out that some people didn't hear anything that actually was said, and are too caught up in the drama to see what is actually there... and that some of the promises they "heard" came only from inside their own desires.

So far the only promise I have seen that didn't happen is some free animal models and the mistaken idea that somehow CL promised to throw away years worth of development and code.

Not that bad in my mind.

BTW - NONE of what I have said here means or implies that there are no bugs in Poser 5, that it didn't have a lot of teething problems or that some people have completely valid reasons to be bitter/angry. Just so we are clear :)

"I did NOT, however, say that was true for all, or even most, of those people with problems I didn't say you did. "I am not sure what was promised and not delivered. I am willing to learn of any substantial features that are not in the P5 as it stands now" I wasn't talking about promised "features" not being delivered, I was talking about the promised fixes and the "brand new program." The new features are great but what good are they if the program doesn't run? Or the features slow it to an unuseable crawl? And I agree about the plugins...they shouldn't have redone them. The resentment of them stems from the fact that we were led to believe CL was working all this time (years!) on this great new program, come to find out they didn't work much on it at all except to do the stapling. "Funny, I have seen serious and continuing work on the part of CL to fix the Poser5 bugs" I said SERIOUS problems, not minor glitches in the material room. CL themselves have admitted they aren't going to work on the real problems until Poser 6. "If there are any universal "show stopper" bugs in the current version, please let me know so I can avoid them.... cause I simply don' run into them." Congrats, you're very lucky you don't run in to: Memory Leaks Poser refusing to release textures Lockups when it can't find a file Multiplying Magnets Random Crashes Bog-downs after a few hours of work...necessitating reboot. Jumping Cameras. These are just what I come up with at the moment. And they ALL have been in Poser since 1999. And they are ALL still there in Poser 5. In fact, some got worse.

Those 'bells and whistles' are built onto a house of cards. That's what irritates the heck out of us. Why tack on a fancy raytracer when the scenebuilding tools are still non-existent? What's the use of the Face Room if it is limited to characters you never use? You may not care for animals, but many of the rest of us DO. The best thing Poser 5 did was to rework the libraries system, and I even like most of the work on the parameter dials (except for the space it takes and the focus problems). But the rest of it just seems like slapped on addons to make the users go 'wow', hoping they won't notice the basic things that were not addressed. I find it insulting.

Given that I actually prefer P5 SR3 to Poser 4 I almost didn't ask this but... "A full soft body dynamics engine"? Do you mean the cloth room, or something much more interesting & useable that allows Poser characters to have "soft" or "fatty" parts pf their bodies (cheeks, bellies etc.) so that movement and/or gravity help give much more "reality" to animations? Because I've missed how to manage that if it's in place ;(

I swear, Here is a perfectly good topic and some ass has to go ruien it.

ruin it how exactly MM?

BTW, no new animals..that was the answer to that question re:p5 in the Q&A session. They said they had given us enough new figures.:(

Yeah, not an unexpected response but a sad one. AFAIK (I haven't checked) the existing P5 characters still have nitpick-type problems (IIRC poses or similar which complain they're for the wrong model, or not for the right model). DAZ3D appear to be, possibly, working on filling the gaps but at the cost of Millenium Animals we probably won't all be getting a fresh new menagerie. I'd love a whole slew of animals to have been included with P5 despite never having seen the promise first-hand, but don't believe that their lack makes Poser 5 (or the upgrade) expensive.

Forum: MarketPlace Showcase

Subject: Poser Artist from Curious Labs