Stacey opened this issue on Jul 24, 2000 ยท 9 posts
Stacey posted Mon, 24 July 2000 at 1:48 PM
Ok I know this is kind of an open question but I'll ask anyways. I typically have just been working with 3D programs as a hobby( luckily with my current job I have been able to get nfr's of many different 3d and art applications). I have done a couple of animated GIF's for friends web sites as favors just but am now starting to be approached more and more often. One person is looking for a fairly simple logo while another is looking for a very detailed pic that would probably require use of about three or four programs and many man hours to produce an exceptable end result. My dilemma is that both these people want to pay me and I have no idea what I should charge. I don't really see this as becoming a proffesion but who am I to turn away money and if I get good enough who nows. WEll enough rambling just wondering if any one oot there might have a suggestion or two. Sorry I haven't been around lately buty I have been addicted to DiabloII. Stacey
MarkBremmer posted Mon, 24 July 2000 at 2:37 PM
There are a couple of things to take into consideration when pricing your work. A good average for raw animation (no post, no sound) is about $1000 a minute which works out to $16 a second. Most animited GIFs, however, are only a couple of seconds long and require post production and optimiazation for good results on a web page. Really it's kind of a discernment on your part where your customers threshold of pain is :) They should wince a little but not kill the job. Just because 3-D modeling is fun and animation is blast is no reason to ever give your work away (Even though it's tempting to do it for free). My shop generally doesn't let an animated GIF (3-d Animated that is) out the door for less than $160 with the average around $250 for a simple 18 to 24 frame (3-4 second) posted and optimized GIF. For complex or detailed animation, modeling work has to be built into the cost. Usually the cost of the animation development (model building, scene setting) will increase the bottom line 3 to 4 times. But this is a 'professional' price. If you're just doing it for fun it's a little more subjective. Charge enough that you don't feel like you are being taken advantage. Or, if you have your eye on a Plug-in for Carrara, charge whatever the Plug-in costs. If this is a direction or side-line business type of thing that you'd like to pursue, I highly recommend getting the Graphic Artist's Guild Handbook for Pricing and Ethical Guidelines. It gives sample contracts, a wide range of considerations for things that will allow you to bill (and negotiate) for more money, when ask for payments or partial payments as well as ways to contractually set yourself up to avoid getting burned. Hope that this isn't more than you wanted to know. Mark
ClintH posted Mon, 24 July 2000 at 5:29 PM
I'll second what Mark said and make sure that you get a contract for any and all work that you expect to get paid for. ;) Good luck! Nice to see you back around, Stacey! Clint PS - Keep us updated on with the new work...if you have the time :)
Clint Hawkins
MarketPlace Manager/Copyright Agent
All my life I've been over the top ... I don't know what I'm doing
... All I know is I don't wana stop!
(Zakk Wylde (2007))
Stacey posted Mon, 24 July 2000 at 5:57 PM
I really appreciate the info and I will definetly look for that book. Thanks Stacey
brenthomer posted Mon, 24 July 2000 at 6:13 PM
I have found it much easier to just not charge by the second. Granted I havnt had as many jobs as mark & clint (and the fact that I suck prob helps :) but my company had a standing policy of price per sec and most clients bawked and fled when they saw it. It wasnt even the highest in the area. ONce we switched it to a flat rate, we are starting to get calls again....its sort of how car repair men dont charge by the hour anymore...ie the book says changing this part is 1 hour...they will charge you the hour but if it goes over the hour, they usually will eat it. If its less they keep it. Also I have found in my own freelance work that contracts are a bad ideal. Granted Clint may have experiences I never had, but most of my clients (not nec. graphics stuff) dont trust contracts. For the hobbiest contracts are a lose lose situation (IMHO). Think about it..if there was a disspute would you have a good enough lawyer to counter the suit? If the client was evil enough you may find that they will make you sign there contact and then use it against you. Fact is that (IMHO once again) freelanceing is a person to person deal. You wash there hands and they wash yours. You go out of your way to please them and they will do the same. Remember you dont have to be the best, if they like you and your comptition is a jerk (even if he is better), they will probably stick with ya just for the customer service. *all opinions expressed are just opinions and should not be taken as law. This is based on my editing experiance, not my graphic experiance. -brent
AzChip posted Tue, 25 July 2000 at 12:58 PM
Here's my humble opinion on the subject. I work professionally in video, graphics and editing. I receive a salary for my work and am pretty comfortable with that. When I'm approached to do outside work, I charge fair market value for my work (pretty much what Mark described, although I'd guess he's in a bigger market than I am, so his prices are a bit higher than mine.) (Also bear in mind that I'm not really comfortable charging that rate for 3D work yet; I do charge pro rates for AfterEffects and such.) I think you have to gauge the client; if it's a buddy of yours who has a few extra bucks and wants to make sure you're not being taken advantage of, it's fine to do the job for beer and a resume piece. If the client is a new web-site that has investors and is about to go with its IPO for billions of dollars, charge accordingly. I really like Mark's suggestion about setting goal-specific prices; I did exactly that when I did a 3D animation for a local commercial; I wanted to get RD Studio, so my rate was the price for Studio at the time. (I wound up finding a much cheaper copy, so I pocketed the difference.) One more thing to consider. Just because you have fun doing a job, it doesn't make it any less a job; I love the work I do, and a few years ago, I might have done this job for much less than I'm paid now. Now, though, I realize it's a job -- even if I have a whole lot of fun doing it -- it's a job. Don't feel bad for charging people for your time and skill. I'll stop rambling now.... Good luck. - Chip
ClintH posted Tue, 25 July 2000 at 5:13 PM
I have never had anyone back away from a contract. As a matter of fact it helps put the artist and client at ease about what is expected as a end result, dates for viewings (Beta type viewings) by the client, dates for completion of work and the price. Most of my clients request some sort of contract. I cant imagine how they could use it against me. Clint
Clint Hawkins
MarketPlace Manager/Copyright Agent
All my life I've been over the top ... I don't know what I'm doing
... All I know is I don't wana stop!
(Zakk Wylde (2007))
Tephladon posted Thu, 27 July 2000 at 9:57 PM
I would really like to know more about this because I am trying to become a professional myself. Right now I am focusing on my modelling techniques and the mathematics of modelling and animation but I would really love to be my own boss. So anyone please, tell me more about the professional 3D market.
ClintH posted Fri, 28 July 2000 at 7:50 AM
A new area I am looking into is printed digital art. My neighbor owns a art gallery. She has seen some of the work here at Renderosity and feels that it would sell if printed, matted and framed. Im going to do a few and stick them in her gallery to see how it goes. She might approach a few artists here about doing some consignment prints for the gallery. I take work where ever I can get it. I have turned down jobs. I dont take them all. Everything from Web sites (yuk!), Web Graphics, Splash screens, animations, modeling, T-Maps for games like Quake, etc etc.... If it has art and computers in it I will go for it. A lot of my work is reference work from previous customers. They will recommend me to a new client! Thats a good thing, word of mouth. I'm not able to quit my day job (NT Systems Engineer) but it really helps to fluff up the bank account to help support my expensive racing habbit and costly 3D software/hardware. ;) I would pick up the book that Mark mentioned in the previous message string. Great reference! Anymore questions post away. Clint
Clint Hawkins
MarketPlace Manager/Copyright Agent
All my life I've been over the top ... I don't know what I'm doing
... All I know is I don't wana stop!
(Zakk Wylde (2007))