Some people really was excited about Cinema 4d, so i decided to download the free trial version, i didnt found it very interesting but, when i did my first rendering i was amazed, really it's better than poser 5 render, here i am using alasunthia head maps from the marketplace (I just love those maps) i cant beleive the realism, of course with a little bit of postwork the results will be amazing, this image has no postwork so and if u are asking why i used closed eyes its because i think eyes look much more realistic with poser 5 rendering, please if someone knows how to make work V3 eyes in cinema 4D please IM. Hugs jeharsy :)

Here is another view of the details, i love the close up of the lips, i know that the neck is not the same color as the head but this are only tests of course that if u want to render for a nice pic you can change the color, i had to decrease the quality of the image because it was bigger than 200kb and i couldnt upload it to the forum. Bythe way, i'll search where to get the free trial :)

Attached Link: http://www.maxon.net/index.html

Here is maxon official website the creator of cinema 4d, search on the downloads section, you have to register first for free and then download. (note, it downloads the complete folder with all the files in its place, you don't have to install it just download and its ready for use (: )

It's an awesome render and I agree even with the default (no lights) renders so well and fast. I use it for most of my images now about the realism on the eyes I disagree you can get way better results on cinema I can show you how to do it if you want, here is one render i'm working with right now :)

I got the free version of Cinema 4D 6CE on Computer Arts. Very nice renders! There is a 640x480 limit on the CE version but you can screen capture to up that - or upgrade for just 79. Nice renders guys. But Dash, the eyes are kinda lifeless right now.

The render i'm doing right now doesnt require a face close up so no need of a "fake" reflection a small glint does fine but i'm not sure about this texture is too light. i'll see if i can make one with some reflections.

That doesn't look much different than Poser to me. With the right lighting sets (blackhearted comes to mind).. Poser looks just as good.

For digital vixxen: i also like poser very much in fact is nuber 1 on my list but i was impressed of this renderings, and im going now to check blackhearted's lights. :) For Dash, thanks for helping i posted this render for u is just a test of course i will give more work to the eyes but now they look way much better, thanks for the plug in.

the lips look great and the eyes on the render on the right looks good as well but the left needs a bit of work unless that is how the texture map is painted seems to me you use the specualr on the irises. here is one with reflection on the eyes, I disable some of the skin surface so it will render faster. DigitalVixxen keep in mind that these render use very little or no lights, my picture only uses 3.

Cinema is an excellent product and pretty easy to use. I have not got around to doing any renders of my poser stuff but here is one I have done of a glass I made, filled with red wine on a wooden floor. I only used one light.

What should be wrong with these eyes? (rendered with C4D)

These eyes look very dry. Add some specularity or an environment map.

But what's wrong with FireFly in the first place?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1416107

HI not to start a flame war here but their really is NO comparison Between the poser5 renderer and Cinema 4DXl's render engine. especially now that Stewer has created a free global Illumination plugin that alows us to simulate radisity images without the long render times.

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If you want to be picky about the eyes then, they are both identical which is very unlikely in the real world and both reflections are identical (in each eye) even though parts of the face are cast in shade. No moisture there. This is when you do not want reflections mapped to the eye image used but to use the renderer to pick them up from your scene. The image I created with the glass took me 20 mins and that is my first real thing I have created in cinema, I have not even scratched the surface of it yet. Nothing wrong with firefly, someone was just pointing out how good cinemas rendering is. It is a viable option for anyone still using poser 4. Get the free copy of cinema 6 ce and try some renders with it.

.....the maya Doll in cinema

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Where'd you get the towel? Or was that postwork? dave

[i]but their really is NO comparison Between the poser5 renderer and Cinema 4DXl's render engine[/i] Correct. Despite all the global illu, Cinema4D doesn't do 3D motion blur, 3D depth of field, true displacements or subsurface scattering, where Poser doesn't do radiosity or caustics. But where would you need caustics in a character animation program anyway? Final Fantasy had no radiosity either. About my AO plugin - it's just something that Pixels:3D, whose render engine was licensed for Poser 5, has for a long time now. Actually, Pixels:3D is where I got the idea from. So the render engine of Poser would be perfectly capable of doing ambient occlusion, it's just the node that's missing. Looking at the C4D images posted so far, there's nothing in them that FireFly wouldn't do.

Where'd you get the towel? Or was that postwork? Cloth room. Material is the velvet shader with an anisotropic highlight. There is no postwork in that image, and it's Mike's default texture.

Cinema does not do DOF??

Where'd you get that Maya doll and outfit wolf?

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

{Cinema does not do DOF?? } He may be referring to basic R8 which lacks some of the advanced render functions and texhnically, Cinema applies its blur filters as 2D post, but then they are still pretty good and render an eon faster than a true raytraced equivalent.

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

cross posted there stewer! Whats the point of this argument though? - the 2 apps are poles apart, and I am sorry, but regardless of what Poser does do well, it's not in the same league as Cinema - that's a different ball game altogether.

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

I'm not trying to cause arguments here. I was just pointing out that cinema 6 ce is free and if people using poser 4 want antoher alternate renderer then this could be a viable solution and you can create your own models as well. I do have poser 5 and love it as well, but I also like working in cinema and using the hdri lighting. Does poser 5 support this?

Dang HTML tags... I said 3D DOF. What Cinema does is apply a 2d post filter with the z-Buffer as mask, which does not produce accurate results. FireFly (and about any other REYES renderer on this planet) is performing accurate depth of field during rendering. but regardless of what Poser does do well, it's not in the same league as Cinema Just look at the price... But if you do a little research on render engines, you'll see that FireFly is rather comparable to Pixar's PRMan than Cinema 4D, as it is a REYES renderer and not a raytracer (note that until recently, PRMan did not do raytracing). Radiosity and HDRI are nice for architectural or car design stills, but not for character animation.

Hmm - Well I'll have to check out 5 - still running propack, and since CL decided that Mac users were second class citizens, despite being the platform that Poser began on, we have only just been offered a working version!

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

***"Correct. Despite all the global illu, Cinema4D doesn't do 3D motion blur,"*** Ahem... >>cough cough<

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...***"or subsurface scattering,"*** ever heard of the chanlum shader :-)

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I've never mentioned animation at all. I work in portraits more often than not and like the idea of having reflections of the environment showing on the characters jewellery and especially their eyes without having to use reflection maps etc.. Not used poser 5 for ages because it keeps locking up on me. Had no problems for ages and then one day bang, I get similar problems that have been posted here before. I am building a second computer and intend to use it just for poser, so hopefully I can get in there and explore it a little bit more.

"Where'd you get that Maya doll and outfit wolf?" free from studio MAYA

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Attached Link: water simulation

***"But where would you need caustics in a character animation program anyway?"*** in a scene where you want a some what realistic looking pool or flow of water

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Note that I also said 3D motion blur. Once again, what C4D is doing is a 2D post filter.

Your point about the 2D/3D motion blur effect is fairly academic though as it does the same job, and faster anyway.

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

*ever heard of the chanlum shader* Does it come with C4D? ;) *in a scene where you want a some what realistic looking pool or flow of water* Am I supposed to see caustics in that animation? I see refraction and a particle sytem with metaballs. *I do have poser 5 and love it as well, but I also like working in cinema and using the hdri lighting. Does poser 5 support this?* Not really. But on Windows, you can get pretty close with HDRShop (free) and the ProbeLight node.

i made this one today some few renderings without postwork, following the advices of my friend dash

Cinema 4D R7, 45 seconds, 1.1GHz P3

Poser 5, 20 seconds, 1.1GHz P3 Who's faster and who got the strobe effect?

Just exactly what were you trying to do?? 1st one looks like a ball falling last one looks like a grey lightsabre effect?

2nd is also a falling ball.

PLEASE FORGIVE ME TO POST THIS MESSAGE IN CAPS I KNOW THAT ITS NOT RIGHT BUT ITS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT U READ THIS: SORRY FOR HAVE STARTED A FIGHT ABOUT WICH RENDERING IS BETTER, BUT I WASNT SAYING THAT POSER 5 WAS A SHI* AND THAT CINEMA WAS THE BEST PROGRAM, I WAS JUST POINTING THE REALISM THAT CINEMA RENDERING HAS, I POSTED THIS MESSAGE AS A RESOURCE FOR THOSE WHO LIKE REALISM I WANTED TO SHARE THE PROGRAM, FORGIVE ME ALL THAT TOOK THE MESSAGE AS AN OFFENCE I WASNT COMPARING POSER AND CINEMA I JUST WAS SAYING THAT CINEMA 4D HAS A GREAT RENDERING. :) SORRY FOR THE MESSAGE IN CAPS AGAIN.

first looks more like motion blur despite the strobing - object motion blur would have been better for that than scene, also much faster, AND R8 render is a lot faster than 7! :)

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

AND R8 render is a lot faster than 7! Are you gonna buy it for me? ;-) I know that C4D is a very fast ray tracer with a number of impressive illumination stunts, but REYES renderers are better at 3D DOF and MB - by design. REYES on the other hand is the inferior approach when it comes to ray tracing effects. Pixar's PRMan didn't have ray tracing until Nov 2002/Version 11. The previous version 10, released in Aug 2001 had neither ray tracing nor any global illumination features. The strobe effect in 2D motion blur is even worse if you have high-contrast textures. With a checkerboard texture, the scene above turns into a moire-mess. Object motion blur would have worked in this scene, yes, but it works only in very few scenes. 2D scene motion blur is expensive as it is rendering the whole scene multiple times (the image above is at 25x blur, btw), where 3D motion blur as performed by REYES renderers does additional calculations only where objects are actually moving. If you have Poser 5, try yourself: Take a still scene, render it once without and once with motion blur. Both will render equally fast. So, if you want to render e.g. a bullet shooting through your scene, there will be no additional rendering overhead for the rest of your scene. If you did that with 2d motion blur (which Poser 5 and ProPack also can do), you'll render the whole scene multiple times. jeharsy I know you wasn't comparing. We were :)

Object motion blur isn't very pretty either.

Attached Link: http://www.pixels.net/gallery/

One last thing: Before anyone thinks I'm a fanatic that thinks Poser beats C4D in any aspect: No, I'm not. FireFly and C4D are two fundamentally different renderers, each with it's own strengths and weaknesses. I just think that you should first try to get the most out of FireFly before you spend time and money on Cinema4D (or 3ds, LW, etc) just to get prettier images. There's a lot more potential in FireFly than most people think. Browse through the Pixels:3D image gallery, this is essentially the same renderer.

I agree that Firefly is a decent renderer, and I love the way shaders are set up in Poser 5, but it's just so damn slow, and the general bugginess of the app, plus my greater comfort with lighting in Truespace 4 makes me do pretty much all my rendering there (Via Konan's Truepose plugin, which will soon work with Poser 5 I'm told.) BTW If you just want a all around decent 3d app with a faster easier to use renderer with more features (Like Radiosity) You can get Truespace 4 for $200 now Plus $100 for Konan's plugin for animation or Use LUUV (Free) for stills. Or you can get Truespace 6.6 for under $600 which has a feature set which is pretty comparable to LW 7 (No Hypervoxels or Cel shader, but it costs a 3rd as much) At the moment TS 4 is all I need though. again you will need a plugin for proper import of poser models. http://caligari.com/

Attached Link: http://caligari.com/

Doh Forgot to add that URL as a link... Here: for those to lazy to cut and Paste

Have to agree with that,the one thing thats bugged me with the firefly renderer is the speed,Quality is great but the wait is ridiculous, whereas i've found with c4d the quality of render is fantastic and it renders at a blistering speed compared to poser 5 + firefly.

{Quality is great but the wait is ridiculous, whereas i've found with c4d the quality of render is fantastic and it renders at a blistering speed compared to poser 5 + firefly. } I thankyou! :)

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

I love Poser. I agree there can be some speed and stability issues, but it is a very powerful program. Having said that, I love Cinema 4D too. I find HDRI lighting fascinating. I love both programs for different things. This is something rendered in Cinema 4D, but I couldn't have put it together without Poser.

Great image eferrier!!! I agree with you completely. I do all my renders in cinema, but love poser aswell. You have Poser 5 and don't have the money for C4D?, you really don't have to worry, firefly is a great render engine (If quality renders is what you're looking for, that is, both programs are far more than that). Funny, I've seen some poser "haters" in the C4D gallery, but this is the first time I see a thread like this one. Havent seen any hate so far (in fact the arguments are more rational), but it seems like if the Poser users are fighting back. Cool!! Poser deserves more respect! sorry for my bad english.

Ohh, it's the same Stewer. Thank you for that great plugin. I suspected this was an expert writing.

Don't worry about HDRI and Poser any more. I just wrote a new Python script.

Rendered in P4 ProPack.

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Stewer, that looks very interesting. Where can you (I) get the script? :o)

I need to stress-test and polish it first. But I'll post when it's available.

Stewer, I was not trying to cause an argument or anything. I have not used poser 5 to it's full potential or even cinema for that matter. I was just agreeing the cinema is good at rendering. I also thought that others may wish to look at the free copy of cinema 6 ce on the front of most 3d mags. I thought it may be of benefit for those that can not afford to upgrade to PP or P5 but want to get good renders of their work. Both packages have their own "quirks" and merits. We can't really say that one is better than the other when they are both designed for different uses. One thing came out of this though! It got you writing a new script ;p Looks good BTW. (now I wonder, if I get them arguing about how good poser 5's folders are compared to how poser 4 organises it's files. Maybe someone like Stewer could create one for poser4?????) ;P Last bit was a joke, but if you can create one!!!!!!!

Looks like a very useful script Stewer. Looking forward to using it. I do still use Poser for renders.

very realistic render eferrier! - just need to up the sample quality to get rid of those artefacts!

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

C4D

P5

One thing came out of this though! It got you writing a new script ;p I had that idea before, it was just this thread that made me finally pick it up ;)

stewer, that sounds like a great script! And that last post's pic, it looks like you have caustic reflections, awesome!

Attached Link: http://www.keindesign.de/stefan/poser/

Script is finished.

Wow! Very cool. I've never used scripts before, but I'll give it a try. Thanks stewer!

Mike 2, Ben Bery texture by Catharina Harders, pure Poser 4 render - no bells and whistles

Since we'r all showing off our renderers, thought i'd mention that Lightwave isn't bad either: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=499728&Start=1&Artist=tekn0m0nk&ByArtist=Yes http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=499726&Start=1&Artist=tekn0m0nk&ByArtist=Yes

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Those who like realism please look!!!