Something looks very weird to me what ya think ?? The traps ... the neck and the hands looking very weird. The body part is way to long :( To mee it seems like DAZ did a very bad work here. They should not use V3 to create M3 and just putting the Genitlia as seperate figure on it :(

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

Another thing that is missing. Injection Pose Builder for M3. The help files say IPB will be updated for M3 shortly after his release, but havent seen any updates for it yet :(

****

Turn the Traps Smaller dial ... It is jsut a different body style. I have seen people that had much larger ones and were much smaller. I think you dialed soemthing wierdly with his hand ...

You have done nothing wrong, Mike3 is a joke

Heh, you forgot the nudity flag.... 1. M3 is by no means a joke... the Unimesh concept allows alot of great possibilities in texturing alone, and as time goes on you'll start to see more of the benefit of this. 2. For the hand it appears you fiddled with one of the Extwhatever dials accidentally. 3. The neck and traps appear very natural to me... it's just a different body style than Mike 2's. 4. They didn't rework V3, they developed both figures from the same Unimesh.

IPB was last updated to include support for Michael 3 on August 29, 2003. Brokers used the updated version (1.2) to produce content for the Michael 3 release. Ealier this morning I noticed that the update had not been posted yet, and wondered why myself. I brought it up to our webmaster and was informed that he'd be posting the update installers on the IPB product page by the time he leaves tonight. -Rob

It seems funny to me the only people that defend this model are people that have things for sale at daz, not a poke at you drax, just an observation. If this unimesh is the big new thing, they better stick with the old basics. And if it wasn't made from vicky, seems very odd how the neck, body shape and face is identical (minus the breast). So that said, I have quite a few websites and daz has gotten some very bad press from me. I always liked them sure hope they set things right, but so far this product is a 2 stars out of 5.

First, I would like to say that I LOVE M3! Second, GothicAngel is right about the hand. I don't think he fiddled or dialed another wrong on his hand because I have experienced the same problem. You can recreate the same effect if you use the dial "ArmsHeavy". I injected M3 with the morph and turned the dial on his body and received the same effect. You will also get another strange effect with his forearms if you use the "Stocky" morph. It creates sunk-in areas on the back of the forearm. Also, this error is not because I turned any other dials funny. Check both yourself and you will see. As for the Traps, I think they look fine. All in all, I believe M3 is a great model, but there are a few problems that could be fixed with a service patch. :)

dirk, I still fail to see how "they were made independantly from the same mesh" equates to "Mike 3 was made from Vicki 3". Of course, if they were both modeled from a universal mesh, they will look similar. My biggest issue in defense of DAZ is not that I happen to have items for sale there, but because of a few things. Firstly, I noticed the arguments against M3 start along time ago at a time when the arguments were uncalled for and it was prejudgement based on a few small images. This dissention mounted and more and more people jumped on the bandwagon without any cause, until several, though they purchased it, had made up their mind about Mike 3 before it was even released and nothing in the world could change their views. Secondly, Victoria 3 and Michael 3 have completely different joint parameters than their version 2 counterparts. As such, the same poses do not result in the same effect on each figure. they have to be adjusted slightly. A recent comparsion used the same pose on each without taking this into account, so of course Mike 3 appeared to be bent unnaturally in this form. This would of course do Mike 3 no justice and as such would result in more undue bad press. I've got more to say but I need to take a break to do some quick renders that justify what I'm trying to say.

Heh, gotta love cross-posting. Good to see at least one person in love with Stocky (need to remember to thank the DAZ team again for listening to my big mouthed suggestions ;) )

i do need to say that i do listen to you drax, one person here I actually have respect for, so hope my above post was taken in the debate or "me as a consumer" way it was meant. Maybe they can fix a few things and i'll be a happy camper, still can't get the sissy feminine look out of the face either, it seems very limited. That said off to watch The Simpsons :)

oh that pose in the above pic was made specifically for mike3, purchased here in the marketplace, i turned every dial trying to make the bad spots go away with no luck

There are some problems with the mesh, and there are some problems with the joint parameters, particularly where the arms meet the chest.

However, I have to argue with protests that his anatomy is completely off. Mike 2 is hardly a good metric for that. Here is a picture of Mike 3 side-by-side with the male model from Atlas of teh Human Anatomy for the Artist, by Stephen Rogers Peck (hopefully OK under fair use and de minimus. I'm not wanting to step on anyone's copyright here).

DraX, I am glad I am not the only person who loves "Stocky". :) I love different shapes and sizes, but the "Stocky" morph is very cool.
M3 is great guys... yes, he has a few problems, but they are minor and should be easily fixed. I know he is not like M2, but we sort of knew he wasn't going to be. He just takes a little time to get use to. I personal love him and the tons of other items that I bought for him from Daz. Daz is a great company and I am sure they will make everything right! :)

Ghostofmacbeth, I bought your "M3 Creatures" and I have to say that they are great! You ROCK!

Yes, there are some problems. Arms to chest is the one I hate most. If anyone has found a way to get around the collapsing pits problem, please post it. It drives me crazy. There's also a problem where the chest meets the abs when you bend the chest right or left. The mesh accordians a bit. More noticable when using the muscle morphs. No, he's not a joke. Just different. Daz corrected a number of problems that came with M1/M2 (arms over the shoulder, thigh to hip warping), and wound up with a couple of new ones. Just because he was based on a unimesh with V3 isn't a problem. Men and women are based on teh same basic structure too, it's how it all fits together that makes the differences. I really think Daz will fix the pits problem. It's too obvious not to. I hope the fix the abs/chest. I would like some more muscle morphs to expand his chest, and all the face morphs that came with V3, but I expect that if Daz doesn't do it, some interprising morph mistress will (can you say "Boris for M3?"). He's just a week old. The poor baby has barely opened his eyes. Daz is VERY good about customer support and following customer suggestions (unlike other major companies who shall go nameless). I like him at least as much as M2, and they look good together in a scene, at least when P5 can handle the load. Nice variation.

I'm not trying to be critical, I just need some information. There have been postings here about some problems with the M3 mesh. Is DAZ anticipating on making a service release for M3 and his morph packs soon?

"A recent comparsion used the same pose on each without taking this into account, so of course Mike 3 appeared to be bent unnaturally in this form." That comparison was done by me and I'd like to clarify what other people seem to think is was, in that I said it was the same pose, not that it was an M2 pose. The pose was on I created for M2 and had saved it. When I did the comparison, I used it on M2 and not on M3. I posed M3 by hand in an effort to sort of match the M2 pose. So now, where is the logic that the M2 pose caused the visible problems with M3? For everyone (which includes myself) that actually sees some of the problems areas with M3, the pits, the elbows, the shoulders, stomach, etc., we beating a dead horse talking about it.

Of course, Dirk, I took it as nothing personal, and I understand your frustration... Granted I also feel it unneccessary for you to jump into a thread with someone asking for help and stating that Mike 3 is a joke, but to each their own. That said, I'd also like to say thank you. It's good to know that there are few level headed people still hanging out here in between all the immaturity that sometimes runs rampant here :) Anyway, how androgenous Mike 3 looks all depends upon the morphs you choose. I've posted this face a dozen times before and it can be seen on the DAZ website as well (apparently they liked the face :)) I just happen to feel it shows a good example of an non-andgrogenous Mike 3.

What face dials did you use for your character Drax?

Thanks cwsatl429 .. glad you like :) I do agree about the pits crumbling and noticed that weird glitch in the stocky morph but it was a last minute addition (no excuses but there was a lot to look at and it could have slipped through the cracks). As for the lifted arm picture that is a limitation of the mesh. If you try it with Mike 2 it looks a lot worse. There may be a few problems but there are a lot of bashers as well. I think he has a lot of potential and I really like a lot of aspects over M2 but there are a few things I might tweak and which I am tweaking.

Yes, what dial setting did you use as I've not been able to come near anything like that after turning dials for days.

I also posted this before and don't really think he looks feminine

I got an IM to a IM I had sent DAZ. Steve said he was going through the M3 posts so I ask if he would be so kind as to let people know they have actually seen the messages. He didn't.

I don't think M3 is feminine, just incomplete.

cherokee, I said a recent comparison, not your comparison. In the one I'm referencing the poster very obviously (just by looking at the images) used the same exact pose on each, and then circled area that had problems because they were bent funny, and noone seemed to argue against it.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1436348

That's odd, the only comparison between M2 and M3 I remember seeing is the one I posted. Might the above link be the one you mean..if so..that was my comparison..of couse I've since deleted my posts there. The one image of M2 and M3 with areas circled were saved by someone else and reposted with the areas circled.

Jeremy,

I've handed the reins of the [content] Production Department over, around March of this year, and began focusing more on the design and development side of things... so I'm not certain as to specific schedules for content production. I've pointed out a few concerns to the appropriate parties in the event that they were not aware of any particular issue and they appear to be on top of it already. I'm sure, much the same as it was when I was calling the shots, that the production folks will want to fix as many issues as possible in one go, and avoid as much confusion as possible. Remember, the problems need to be replicated before they can be repaired, and then a possible solution needs to be tested to prevent further complications... so I'm sure it'll take [at least] a little time.

To make a long story short, if there are actual problems (vice subjective opinions)... will we fix them? Don't we usually try to? Honestly? We put a lot of pride and hard work into the products we create. But despite our best efforts, we are human... Sometimes things slip and only someone who has faced the enormity of some of these projects would truly understand how things actually happen (vice how they theoretically 'should' happen). That said, we are continually trying to improve our processes and procedures and hope that we haven't caused too much discomfort. All I can suggest at the moment is a little patience to allow us to identify the real problems...

-Rob

Rob, Thanks for the info. Just wanted to make sure that DAZ knew there was some concerns with the mesh. Other than for a few problems, I'm pretty satisfied. Jeremy

BTW Rob, the mildog is looking great. Keep up the great work :)

Can't say fairer than that! And in terms of his joints alone, M3 is a superb product .. the most realistic 3D humanoid available for Poser users. Daz have not taken a retrograde step yet in their productions, and M3 is no exception.

While I don't mean to slander her, I think most of the Mike3's that I've seen that look male (or are supposed to) look like Vanessa Redgrave. Granted, she can be rather masculine looking but she's still a woman... : )

FyreSpiryt: if you bend M3 slightly at the torso and move his forearms out just a bit, he'll match the model in the photograph at post #13; a great side-by-side comparison! About M3's anatomy "being off" I have to say that even from your comparison, M3's head appears too small, his neck is too long and traps seem too high (almost like flaps of skin) in proportion to the rest of his body. Of course, we could dial the traps back (presumably after injecting the requisite morphs from the additional bodymorphs pack) and make the other necessary tweaks, but I thought the whole idea of an "M3 base" was something one could use (for say, a generic male figure) without the need for further morphs/adjustments. IMHO, we don't have to be too concerned about M3 "retiring prematurely" just because of some "bad press". Other than whether the majority of Poser users accept the new figure and employ him in the long run, the success of M3 will be decided by how well his makers respond to that criticism and continuing market support for the product (e.g. by vendors making stuff for M3). These factors will determine whether M3 can truly be the promising successor to M2. We'll see! ;-p

Rob, Daz is always the best. M3's problems will be worked out, and probably pretty quickly the way V3's were. Most are pretty minor or look like an easy fix or work around (wishful thinking). The biggest problem I really see is that he isn't M2. The biggest asset I see is he isn't M2. I don't intend to stop using M2, I'm just going to add M3 to the mix. He's got a LOT of potential. He's not perfect, thank the Goddess. If he was every render would look the same. Quick note on head size and neck too long: Use the scaling dial on the head. It works great. And StretchNeck to a negative value works even better. I agree that his defaults are a tad off, but he's well in the range of normal variation. Work a little with him, folks. He's actually pretty darn good. We've got to learn him, the way we did with M2. Note to 3ddaave44: Vanessa Redgrave???!!!!!??? RONFLMAO! Now I've got to try and make a morph like that. I knew I'd find a use for those V3 female textures I bought!

The Traps dial and the negative value on "stretch neck" make a huge difference/improvement. The only real issue I have is with the arm pits. I'm not much for the "overly muscular" look, but it seems that the more muscualar you make him, the "weirder" he looks......but then I think "overly muscular" "real people" look weird too :) As for the face.....you can create lots of masculine faces that look nothing like V3.

...

I'm sorry but every picture ive seen of M3 he/she/it looks feminine somehow , I cant put my finger on what it is about him/her/it but it put me right off buying it . Cheers :)

Bear, Maybe it's the eyes? There is something about them that I can't put my finger on.

cherokee69 Now you mention it that could be it . Cheers :)

Make your own default Mike 3... turn the dials to achieve the shorter neck, larger head, etc etc...save for future use.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

You know.....I have to eat my words. You can get masculine looks, but cherokee69, I think you're right about the eyes. I just did a bunch of renders and the eyes always look the same....no matter what you do to them. No two people have the same eyes and maybe it can't be changed, because of the way the mesh is built......that may be why he keeps looking like V3 to a lot of folks.

I think you dialed soemthing wierdly with his hand ... @ Ghostofmacbeth I did not dial anything wrong this. it also looks the same on a flat hand and I could go on with all his errors. In my own opinion M3 is just a joke

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

This pic i am posting to me seems as it is not v3 at all. And it doesnt seem girly to me either. There are two morphs at play here that arent from daz one to create the point at the top of the head and the point at the jaw the rest is stock m3. This to me shows how versatile m3 can be

M3 has the same problem as ALL the Milfigures so far - every one of them from V1 thru Preteen to V3 and M2, M3..... all of them. Their heads are WAY too small in proportion to the body. Look at Fyre's comparison in post #13, with the real guy and M3. See the difference? M3 looks silly with that tiny pinhead. Set M3/M2/V2/V3/PT/Steph head to Scale 110% at least - often more. Many of my Vicki characters (see my gallery) have their head up to almost 120% !!! and there's never a cry of 'Her head is too big'. Because it isn't. Of course, don't forget to scale up the eyes as well, and the neck some to compensate. If you're up to it, make morphs (using magnets) to do this instead - works fine too. :] Fish

I don't think any of these faces are feminine. And I couldn't have made them with V3 either. So M3 have some issues. Guys, if you think he's that bad and a "joke", why don't you ask for a REFUND?! You won't HAVE to use him. Noone is pushing you into buying him either. But bitching takes you nowhere fast. I happen to LIKE Mike 3. And no, I do NOT broker with Daz. I haven't noticed the thing with his hand, and I haven't been using the Stocky morph yet so I haven't seen those bulges either. Yes he looks somewhat like V3 OUT OF THE BOX. guys, that's what MORPHS are for. Personally I think V3 Out of the box is UGLY! That's why I morph her! Same with Mike. It's like clay: YOU do the shaping.

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

Amen ernyoka1 Amen lol

I'm not inclined to buy him and as I haven't I don't have to worry about a refund. But I guess as he is advertised as Mike3 the expectation was that he'd be somewhat similar to Mike2 - an extension, if you will. V3 was much more an extension of V2 because the figure looked mostly the same and you could flow with the tighter, nicely posable mesh and cleaner look. If he'd been talked up as a new figure altogether with a different name, even with his problems, the criticisms would be less charged. He, wrongly perhaps, has too much of Mike2's shadow on him. I mean besides being Male, this new figure is not an extension of M2 the way V3 was/is to V2. And I think that's where people's expectation, hit the wall. He'd be much more 'acceptable' as an oddly formed, needs more work, new character. Kim! The morphing Polynesian Man! Perhaps. : ) But DaveSo and others are correct. One can develop him into an 'out of the box' figure that they like and save their own .cr2.

OK, considering all that has been said about V2 and M3 and who was made from what and meshes aren't the same, I decided to load the obj file for V3 and the obj file for M3. These are the raw obj files directly from the Geometries folder..no morphs, no cr2s, no poses, no textures, etc. Do you see ANY similarities, ANYTHING at all? Are they TOTALLY different, and I mean TOTALLY different? This is just an observation. I'll leave the judgements up to you.

I'm not sure I understand the question - no one is saying they aren't both modified versions of the same starting mesh, that's the point of the unimesh so OF COURSE if they're the same mesh they're the same mesh. The point is that M3 isn't "made from" V3, both came from a commone starting point. Given what happened when Steph was released I think we can be pretty sure that if M3 had come before V3, both shaped as now, the latter would have been described as "masculine" and "butch". The eyes are pretty much the same shape, which probably means that since we've all seem umpteen V3 images we get odd flashbacks from the M3 eyes, but apart from the long lash-planes they don't look strongly m or f to me on either figure.

"OK, considering all that has been said about V2 and M3 and who was made from what and meshes aren't the same, I decided to load the obj file for V3 and the obj file for M3." From everything's that been said so far: 1. DAZ created a unimesh; not yet Victoria, not yet Micheal (let's call the unimesh something androgynous, like "Pat"), but parent to them both. DAZ was even nice enough to post a sample of the mesh. 2. From the unimesh, they molded Victoria 3. 3. From the unimesh, they then molded Micheal 3. 4. It has been mentioned that the meshes for V3 and M3 are very similar, making texture maps easier to translate between the two. 5. Despite the numerous, simple explanations, some people seem unable to understand that, because they both started from Pat, they will be very similar, and instead fantasize that V3 was molded into M3. Is that what you were trying to clarify with the mesh posts? If so, you're right, both figures, molded from Pat, have very close meshes, as has been explained numerous times.

But was the original generic unimesh decidedly female in its facial appearance or was it a primative cube or something?? Maybe DAZ should post a wire frame of the unaltered "unimesh" before it was molded into Vicky3 or mike3

My website

YouTube Channel

From everything's that been said so far: 1. DAZ created a unimesh; not yet Victoria, not yet Micheal (let's call the unimesh something androgynous, like "Pat"), but parent to them both. DAZ was even nice enough to post a sample of the mesh. 2. From the unimesh, they molded Victoria 3. 3. From the unimesh, they then molded Micheal 3. 4. It has been mentioned that the meshes for V3 and M3 are very similar, making texture maps easier to translate between the two. 5. Despite the numerous, simple explanations, some people seem unable to understand that, because they both started from Pat, they will be very similar, and instead fantasize that V3 was molded into M3.>> If this is the case, which I doubt, they should have released both models at the same time. They should have also had a beta program testing both figures so they could add splines/nurbs rows for whatever method they use in the necessary places and make sure the corrected shape would work in both the female and male shape. I'm totally against this unimesh philosophy. This is just good from a business point of view. It makes for crappy, prone to be plagged by errors models. Tell a CGI director of a movie you want to use a unimesh for a series of creatures you need to create for a film and see what they tell you about this "great idea."

Simon sure seems to know what he's talking about, i've decided to just wait and see if capsces makes a boris for mike3 or for drax's great stuff, then i'll get some use out of him

they could have released both figues at the same time but it would have been in a few months from now since all the work has be done in advance .. DAZ also tries to learn from things with each model and releasing them both at the same time doesn't allow for that. Plus people would really be complaining about having to plunk down money to buy both at the same time. And do you really think that each figure for each movie is started with a box? Think about it ... The sheer amount of time needed for that is prohibitive. Final Fantasy had a lot of similarities between characters and that is the end all be all of stuff suppossedly.

Took raw obj files again from the Geometries folder. V1 and V2 look the same. There was no word of a unimesh. Then came V3...don't remember talk of a unimesh until M3. The 4th pic is the V2 obj file run throught the Hi-Res program available at DAZ. Anybody want to elaborate? I sure don't.

I'd like to point out to you that the M3toM2 figure is also the unimesh. Feel free to load up m2 and that figure and compare. My point being that the mesh can look like any human you want.

God made woman from Adam's rib.....Daz made M3 from V3's mesh. Everything's gotta start somewhere I guess :) Ernyoka1 is right....it's like molding clay. I have no problem getting masculine looks, but you can tell they're all "related".....and I think it is the eyes. But what the heck! It's just a model....designed to provide some variety to our runtimes and a few bucks in DAZ's bank account. Those who do professional film making and the like are probably paying a lot more for their meshes and not buying them at Renderosity or DAZ's online store! The mesh/maps have some issues, but DAZ will fix them, as they always do and provide a free download to correct them. I'm not sure the expectations people had are as much DAZ's fault as ours. I've noticed that people tend to get very hyped up when we hear a new product is on the horizon.....I read the posts.....a lot of conjecturing goes on and pretty soon everyone has formed an opinion before the product is ever released. The same thing will happen when DAZ Studio is finally released. Plus, no one paid a huge amount for M3. Even if you paid full price, it's still under $30! I've seen clothing for sale here more expensive than that.....and the wonderful thing about DAZ is that they will give you your money back. I can't afford to pay hundreds of dollars for new models that I don't use in any professional capacity....I would guess a lot of people are in that same boat. If DAZ started totally from scratch, I suspect the prices would have been a lot higher and then we'd all be commenting about that. So.....provide me with updates for mesh/map fixes as they're available....give me my free boots.....and I'll deal with the familial similarities :)

Sure MallenLane, here ya go...M2 and M3toM2

lol you want me to make the m2 head morph to match? Is that what you are saying? I meant the body.

Oh OK, here ya go.

now render them ;)

I'm not complaining about DAZ as a company, sure they do wonderful work, sure their prices are unbeatable but they have just made a wrong turn. Every company has their hit and misses. For what I have seen Michael 3 is a total miss and that's because of the unimesh idea. Victoria 1, 2 3, Michael 1 and 2 where original meshes and they were good meshes. Michael 3 wasn't going to break our wallets for being started from the ground up, the development costs had to be similar to the ones for Victoria 3. Going from male to female is easier, that's why Stephanie is not such a bad model, you have more vertices to play around with the shape.

Won't prove a thing because were "beating a dead horse" here.

Thats right..liking or not liking the M3 shape is subjective. It has nothing to do with the mesh's capability.

Im going to throw my two cents in here.. When M2 Came out people were screaming because he wasn;t what they thought he should be.. time passed and now he's cool. M1 I think was the same way Victoria came out and people bitched cuz she looked like a guy Victoria 2 came out and people bitched cuz they didn't like default Victoria 3 came out and people don't like the default and the unimesh Mike 3 comes out and the same argument ensues.. GUYS!!! Give him time and he will grow on you. Just like M2, M1, V1, V2, V3 He's still a kid give him a chance to grow up here... Yes there are some things wrong with him that need to be fixed.. (Shoulders are a big one..) but all in all he's worth it just for the flexibility. Screaming at daz about being..Honest that they used the unimesh is in my opinion silly. Give M3 a chance. He'll grow.

Ohh and yah i know the hairs are going into his chest.. Haven't fixed the maps yet..

Going from male to female is easier, that's why Stephanie is not such a bad model, you have more vertices to play around with the shape. Hmmm ... but if you check the original post "Does Mike 3 have Vicky 3's head?", you'll see screen shots of the actual scan data that was used for the unimesh. It was a male to begin with from the looks of it. 8-)

Attached Link: http://store.daz3d.com/Update/V3-servicerelease1.html

As pert the errors, if you guys recall, Victoria 3 was not perfect, and had a number of morph and JP changes with her service releases. The release of one of these figures is a grand scale project and DAZ is working hard to address the errors. The fixes to the errors then have to be tested before a service release can be made. Why? So that fixing one bug doesn't cause more. Despite how many people were testing this product, there's always stuff that either slips through the cracks or isn't caught until it's way too late. DAZ was forced to push back michael by 10 days... do you really think you guys would have patiently waited another ten days? Some of you would have, the rest would have complained and rioted up a storm and caused another massive controversy.

Hmmm ... but if you check the original post "Does Mike 3 have Vicky 3's head?", you'll see screen shots of the actual scan data that was used for the unimesh. It was a male to begin with from the looks of it. 8-) >> I remember reading that thread and I thought that was the data used for Michael 3 not the unimesh but I could be wrong. As I understood the male scan was just used to push the Victoria 3 model into Michael 3 shape.

Do you know anything about the new M3 updates that I and other found today to download in the Daz account..I don't see any notes and I was talking with Daz yesterday.. And I saw they changed geometry and some pp2 files too while updating .. any idea? Cath

_________________________________________________________

"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Blah, the hurricane going on outside ( which just blew open my unlocked front door by itself), and my lack of motivation in buying that UPS lost the M3M2 head morph in progress. But here's one I made a while back. See, you can change the eyeshape; the whole skull etc. Its just that the linear nature of morphs, makes the blinks work not so well. A lot of what goes on is a combination of what you want, and whats going to blend properly with its sibling morphs.

Nice eye shapes there! Yup, we probably won't get it as bad as what you are experiencing farther down the coast, but we here in Southern New England are expecting some winds as well. Hang in there!!! All I can tell you is that my bones feel it already ;-)

I live in VA, so... its pretty howling right now = and we aren't even supposed to "get" it until tomorrow... They have the power lines rigged up with steel cables; so hopefully it stays on for msot of it.

Hmm I stand corrected I revisited the old thread showing the scans of the model and it seems that yes, there was an unimesh that indeed started before Victoria 3, Dan Farr himself says it on that thread. Then I cannot explain how the Michael 3 mesh ended up being so inferior to Mike 2.

I think it's subjective as to which is more "inferior" ... I happen to think that M3 is better than M2 as far as versatility goes. I felt that M2 was way too bulky for my liking. There is nothing wrong with liking both of them. (And I love that monkey face, Cath! LOLOL) As someone explained earlier, each model that has been released has gone through a period like this. Updates resolve the major problems. And community members also develop other morphs and such that are more specific to individual taste. Give him time, he barely has his eyes open. 8-)

if you saw the other message then you can see that they used a real male model for the unimesh.. and becuase female is always more popular and sell faster they created V3 morph figure as first..then from V3 M3 becuse feacial features are the same blind can see... and for making this more simple they don't have to much work changing the UV self.. becuase was V3 already done and the M3 was over mapped what mean mapped 2 times.. one V3 one M3 ;P but this fackt don't change anything in your art.. Cath P.S Mix;; body is original Daz m3 text..

_________________________________________________________

"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Holy moley Cath .... holy moley! ROFL

lol. I'm having to much fun reading this. I agree with Deecey. It is VERY subjective which is "inferior". I liked M2. But it was very hard to make him look like anything other than M2. I like M3 more. It's just a preference. (And to disqualify the statement that everyone who had said something good about him brokers at Daz, I do not. ;) I'm not really sure why the wireframe was compared between V1 and V2. Still trying to figure that out. But most of the things everyone is complaining about were apparant BEFORE you would have had to purchase it. (Heck, many people started complaining from pic no one and the idea of a unimesh before Daz released him.) So why did you buy him? And if you didn't, why complain? You can still use your M2, as I am sure I will from time to time. (Can't do without Boris, lol) Yes, there seem to be a few bugs that are valid. And like everything else, I am sure Daz will fix them, if they haven't already. (Still waiting to hear why I have extra downloads, if it was a bug fix or not...) So I don't understand the need for 10,000 threads all complaining about the same things. wanders off scratching head

"So I don't understand the need for 10,000 threads all complaining about the same things." Because that's what people love to do the most... I think a lot of the people around here spend more time in the forums then they do actually working on art.

"V1 and V2 look the same. There was no word of a unimesh." I didn't see this mentioned, but I think you failed to miss a point somewhere..... Victoria 1 and 2 didn't require any mention of a Unimesh... Victoria 2 uses the Victoria 1 mesh, it's just a morphed-up version of her. Same thing with Michael 1 and Michael 2. And so what if the unimesh was started out using the Victoria 1/2 mesh as it's origin. A mesh is a mesh.... it's not a person... it can be morphed and altered, and cut and scultped. When Anton Kisiel based the boots in the Adventurers pack on the boots he had previously made for the MCFS, I didn't see anyoen bitching then.

My jaw is dropping Cath...That face is INCREDIBLE!!

I love your work, Cath. You inspire me :) Jeremy

Geez get over it already. So what if M3 came from this that or the other figure. They probably used the same spline model for v3 and m3 but took longer to get clothes out for m3. Now if both could share MTs that would be kind of cool but beyond that what's the big fuss about the original? Sounds like a real bad episode of the x-files.

I'm not a merchant, and I think M3's superior to M2. Not to say that M2 sucks, mind you. M3 is simply more versatile. I love versatility and the variety that is M3's potential. I don't think M3's too feminine at all, & I have faith that if there are actual issues, Daz will update him. THis isn't blind faith mind you, but rather based on how consistant Daz has been in the past. And WHY is it so hard to understand that M3 is NOT V3 stuffed into a guy's shape?!! Here's this lump of digital clay. I get the consistancy juuuust right. I make it look humanoid. You know, 2 arms, 2 legs, a head, certain proportions. I save it. I then continue working the clay until it's a woman and save it as V3. I still have the original clay though. I go back to that original humanoid clay and create a male. M3 is born. Their parent is the same Unimesh lump of clay. But M3 is NOT V3 in drag.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

I actually understood that Caly!! :) A very good explanation for those of us who wouldn't know a mesh from a hole in the head (clay I can relate to). Great texture Cath! Holy Moly is right! And Mallenlane, I hope you kept that morph in post 70 and will make it avaialable...looks great!

Michael 3 is an inferior mesh. His shapes don't look anything like a normal man. There are lots of problems with his neck, uncommon collar bone shapes, weird union between the neck and head, far worst distortion in underarms, horrible unnatural abdominal muscle shapes, specially the upper abdominals, weird bumps where his forearms join with the biceps. This is stuff I've been able to notice from people posting little renders with circles around those areas. Come on, people I don't even own the model yet but I'm not blind! I bought Michael 2 the first day it came out and it was an AMAZING model, out of the box!!!

giving m3 the benefit of the doubt, i worked with him all day today, and every word Mitch said above is very true, deny it all you want, but it's an inferior product

DraX & Ghostofmacbeth: if anyone can "improve" the current state of M3, its both of you! Show us the potential of M3 with your morphing talents and I'll believe that the unimesh idea is a good one. And I WANT to believe! ;-p (I hope to purchase M3 before the sale ends, but will not proceed unless I see something more encouraging in his development/fixes) Catharina: where's "Brian/Bryan" for M3? Cheers!

There's potential as displayed by Cath. I will continue to use M2 for some characters while using M3 for others.

Arendar, Can't show things here since it would be deemed commercial and I am not far enough along to show them in the showcase but I am working on things :)

Ghostofmacbeth: let me know when you're done; meanwhile I'll keep the faith! PapaBlueMarlin: oh no, not another "Vanessa Redgrave" clone! Just kidding (LOL)! For myself, I would like to see M3's much touted "potential/versatility" include a convincing, good-looking bodybuilder/barbarian warrior-type character (and I'm still dreaming of an M3 Hulk), in addition to all the the slim, pretty young things that we have been seeing so far. Unfortunately, I feel that M3's current muscularity bodymorphs just don't cut it. (DraX, step on it, please!).

Sorry for later reply but I don't got any notifications before :P and I missed the final part.. lol there are many points that don't show correct.. the M3 have to much long neck as for a male shape.. his neck have a hole under his Adam apple that only women have.. his forehead is not correct and his eyebrows need to get much lower.. not to mention about his beautiful amandel fingernails :P but ok we can play with Zbrush and morphs to get him looking exact we wish.. but this standard shape have nothing to do with a male shape.. maybe his legs only.. P>S don't forget about the size of the pubic hairs they are exact as by a women..just in form of Y .. for me no matter from what he was made as only if he is made right or not and he is not right. and I learn this all in 10 years of my study..and DAZ know what I think about this..but nothing was changed.. and there is M4 on the air based on M2 so I am glad this time..hehe more later about Cath P>S thnaks for your comments.. Daz did good the body textures as well.. the back only is to much scaled and the skin of the real model..hmm need a visit by a specialist is looking little sick so not working on this while I eat my cookies :P eeeeee I know I am a pig

_________________________________________________________

"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Yup Cath this is what I'm talking about the whole time. His neck looks like he was made from a bird...its way to long...maybe DAZ used the eagle map too ....ROFL The same for his Body....way to long for a normal male body and if you add some muscels...well M3 gets many problems. He really need to visit a specialist to get the real male shape :) I hope only they don't make this bad work on DAZ Studio what they did with M3

Strength Is Life, Weakness Is Death

Mike2 truly is a work of art, his musculature is so well done, pretty amazing really..give me mike2 with more face morphs(same default face), bigger more masculine hands and feet,the ability to bulk up to HULK status, genitals like ulfs penis prop but connected to the body and many of us would be very happy

Attached Link: http://fineart.sk/page026.gif

I do agree that Mike 3's neck is a little long, I also agree about the traps but that is why there is a traps small dial and I have seen peope with long neecks and large traps so that is kind of a subjective thing. But as for his body bing too long that isn't right. Mike 2's was way out of proportion (though I do like it) and he had some short legs (also a possibility). But I did really like the fact that Mike 3 is pretty much perfectly in line with the artistic proportions scale that has been around for years and years. If you overlay that it is pretty much perfect. The head needs to be scaled up a tiny bit but all the points line up. I have included a link to it. If you show a picture of Mike 2 to most classical artists etc they always say his proportions are way off. As for Ulf's penis attached to the figure, I really wouldn't want that. No offense, but it is so out of proportion and entirely too versitile for my needs. It is good that it is out there for those that need it though.

"and there is M4 on the air based on M2 so I am glad this time..hehe more later about" Tell Us More !!!