Juat playing around with this last night. Straight outta' Bryce render. No lights in the scene at all. 50 squished cubes stacked on top of one another directly over the model, with ambience and diffuse at pure white and 100 percent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks just like (to me, anyway) a radiosity render out of some of the higher-end packages. I have the demo of C4-D 8. I've played around with the radiosity in that, and this one here looks a heck of a lot like that. Here's a theory: The reason that Bryce TA renders look so grainy is because this is Bryce's version of photon mapping. That's why TA in Bryce doesn't look so good until you kick it up to 256 RPP. Even a radiosity render in C4-D doesn't look so great until you up the number of photons used. Bryce uses a raytracer anyway, how difficult is that to...I don't know..."convert" those "rays" to photons. You can see the seat in the cockpit (even though the "light source" is directly above the model); and you can just make out on the bottom of the engine nearest the camera, the light reflected off of the ground plane and onto the bottom of the engine cowling. Isn't that radiosity? Anyway, sorry to ramble on. I was just playing around last night and all of this kind of popped into my head. Thought I'd share. :-) Mike