One more thing: How much money will you LAY ON THE LINE as an absolute bonded air-tight escrow GUARANTEE that your server will be up AT ALL TIMES for this fackackta security measure that your "geniuses" have come up with? Or is it just a matter of "screw you, if we're down, it's your problem"?

As I understand it, when you replace your Hard Drive, the PPP embeds a new code on the new hard drive when installed. Then, if you're connected to the net, PPP automatically grabs the unlock code for you you. If you're not connected, you call for your new unlock code. You are limited to a certain number of installs (please, Steve, tell me this number is more than 3)

Server downtime isn't really an issue. As I understand it, the PPP only has to connect to the CL site once to get the unlock code. And if the CL site happens to be down when you first install the PPP, you have 30 days before it locks up on you. The CL site is bound to up and running at some point before your 30 days is up.

Martin, I agree with you about the problem that would be caused if CL went out of business. Certainly none of us want to see that happen. Certainly the folks at CL don't want to even think about that happening. But it would be nice to know there is some sort of worst-case-scenario plan...just in-case.

As long as there are no self-modifying CDs, there can't be a limit for installs - all that can happen is that you have to re-register every time you install. Let's say I'm a professional designer, it's Friday evening, and I have a deadline on Monday. If my disk crashes now, I need the code now. If CuriousLabs can't be reached or their server is down - or my internet is down, I can't work over the weekend - which could be my ruin. Will I start to use such a tool as a professional? NO! Unless CuriousLabs is willing to pay me any damage that may result out of this, and has a deposit for it which will survive their own possible crash. Read my lips - this would be the end of Poser as a professional tool.

Kupa, Okay, let's say that I have 3 computers in 3 different places and all 3 places are on the Internet. Will I still be able to install the software on 3 computers or will it only allow me to have 1 install? I thought software license agreements allowed me to install it in as many places as I wanted, but if I only owned one copy of the program then I could only be running it on one computer at any one time. Is that still true?

Martin,
True, as long as CD's cannot self-modify, the CD can't limit the number of times you install, but CL can limit the number of times that they unlock your code.

Now I'm shooting from the hip here, so if Steve can verify or deny that would be great, but if your disk crashes now you need the code sometime within the grace period. As I understand it, as long as CD's cannot self-modify, you have (I said 30 days in my last post, I have no idea where I got that number from now) that grace period after each install.

So all that a pirate needs to do is to re-install Poser every 30 days? And they will do this rubbish JUST FOR THAT !!??? It would be interesting to know how many potential Poser users already delayed their planned purchase, because they read this thread :-( Mr. Steve Cooper - support by your users is an important aspect in fighting warez, maybe the most important aspect of all. If anyone posts a crack that makes Poser install without a serial now, there will be an outcry. People will report it to you, people will flood the server with protest mails, etc. pp. If you do THIS, and someone posts a crack, he/she will be a HERO, and normal honest users will be happy to get it, "just to feel a bit more secure". As I said before, this is nothing but a nightmare, and I hope for CuriousLabs' sake, that it will stop before it causes REAL damage.

BAM, Yes you can intall the app on three different machines right away if that's what you want to do, but for a potential fourth install you'll need to explain why to us before a fourth unlock code will be issued. MartinC, The grace period is less than 30 days, i cannot disclose the exact time here, and once it has expired on a specific machine, even if a pirate attempts to re-install that same app, the app will not run without registration and an unlock code. If you have regsitered your first install, you get a new grace period for each subsequent install, covering you for the weekend, should you not be abl;e to unlock via our server. For reference, professional 3d tools such as Max 4, Lightwave, etc, have equally deep security measures, and all are moving to the system we use. I understand your apprehension, but we cannot go forward, with any new software releases, without protection. This system is the best we've found, and we've looked long and hard. Dogface, Do another install on the new hardrive, and just re-register under the grace period.

Martin, I just purchased Lightwave 6.5. It uses a hardware dongle, plus you have to call, e-mail or register on-line to receive an unlock code. CL's method is actually much easier and you don't have to worry about a hardware dongle breaking.

Jeremy, if the hardware dongle breaks (I'm using QuarkXPress - not broken yet) I'm dependent on the company's mercy. If the Poser install breaks, I'm dependent on the company's mercy - EVERY BLOODY TIME!!! Steve, I don't know about the other software you mentioned, but I suppose if they do so, they have told people about it, so that they can avoid buying it. I read a lot of national computer magazines here, and whenever a piece of software includes some "protection" which makes you dependent on the creator like this, they will mark the review with a clear "not recommended" and an advice not to buy it. This is fair, because people know it, and if they accept it, fine! I don't think it is fair to release a "Poser Pro Pack" full of awful bugs as a "normal" software (where user think they have proper rights), and then release the necessary bugfix like this! The least you could do is to release the bugfix the proper way, and reserve this new activation key for Poser5 - with a warning! By the way - I am not sure if this could even violate local consumer rights. Microsoft has just lost a court procedure in Germany with OEM bundles. If there is a hardware lock which forces a bundled Windows to a specific CPU, they must give everyone a full licence now, or the user can claim the money back for the whole machine. I don't compare the technical background, of course - I compare the principle. A company did something that the court rated "unfair", so the seller has to pay back to the customer, and Microsoft has to pay back to the seller. If a user can't work with PPP because of a serious bug, and if the fix will violate his usual consumer rights, there might be a chance to sue the software seller - at least if it was a local one. For me, all this is something close to the worst day since MetaCreation exploded. I spent two years now working for Poser utilities which I freely shared with the whole community. In order to do this work and the necessary support for my users, I'm working with OS 8.0, 8.1, 8.5, 8.5.1, 8.6, 9.0, 9.0.4 and 9.1 so far, and I have a heap of older Poser CDs now, where I do constant installs/re-installs to test their behaviour, and to find out about the many bugs which I try to fix with my tools as good as I can - like this horrible way how textures are handled on Mac. This will stop now, of course - how could I go on with 3 installs and a grace period of 30 seconds (Oh yes, if CuriousLabs has mercy it could be up to 5 minutes). I have already reserved some future time now to fully update my tools for ProPack. But I also want to work with Poser, and I can't risk to damage my precious once-in-a-lifetime install, probably. I was supplied with a free Poser4 by MetaCreation's Klaus Busse - and I'm still thankfull for his support till today. I was supplied with a free PPP now (thanks to Larry Weinberg) to support updating my tools - and I was more than happy again. Apart from this, I have spent a nightmare amount of money into my tools nevertheless. So all that is probably left now for me is to stick with Poser3 and Poser4, and to hope that as many people as possible will stick to them as well. Thank you all.

Martin, We going a little longer than 30 seconds, actually 90 8-) And in my pre-coffee blur this morning I misspoke. Once you have registered and unlocked on a specifc machine, you never again need to re-register and re-unlock on that machine, even if you re-install again and again. Actually, even if you reformat the drive, the code generated the first time you registered is preserved on your hard drive. Maybe if we didn't supply you with software, you'd be more of an ally ;-)

If I had spent my own money for PPP I probably would be really panicking now instead of just complaining a bit... :-) :-) :-) OK, this already sounds a bit better now, although I must confess that I don't understand it. If I reformat my drive, it is gone with the wind. Finito. Kaputt. Zeroed. NULL. I truly hope you're not going to mess with my parameter RAM...??? (panic creeps again :-) And - believe it or not - I am an ally. I replied to this thread, because I'm pretty much concerned about your future - you might call this presumptuous because it's not my business at all, but I'm simply a normal user who watches software and company success for over a decade now, and I can see some patterns. Ten years ago some software got copy-protected discs with limited installs, and every office I knew of avoided this - because they knew that the floppies will give up after some time, and the chance that the company is no longer around then was too frightening. Some of those companies stopped using the protection soon after, and the remaining ones died. That's a fact. Now we have the Quark/Adobe battle. Every person in the print business will tell you that InDesign is a load of rubbish, and Quark works brilliant in comparision. Still, InDesign is taking some money off Quark - because of the dongle. If you ask me, this is stupid, because companies can easily live with the dongle - it is not much different to any other hardware related risk. If my Quark crashes, I can re-install it any time - WITHOUT QUARK! Still, many professional companies are so concerned about the possibility that the dongle might fail in 7 years, and Quark is gone in 7 years, that they consider to switch to this toy program by Adobe. If you tell them that they rely on you for every new harddisc... oh dear! I would be eternally sad if I ever read that CuriousLabs has followed poor Joey Ramone to join the great gig in the sky, simply because you kicked too many honest users in order to hurt much fewer villains. PS: Why don't you use a dongle??? Give me dongle and the personal key for it to be entered. When I'm on a lonely island without the internet. PPS: Hmm... do you want me to send back my PPP now? :-) ?

MartinC, You don't need to send your copy back, from what I hear it has all sorts of aweful bugs :-) We chose not to use dongles- they cost more for us to buy than what it costs for us to print and package Poser 4, and there is no reasonable cross-platform Dongle that is universal, USB vs Serial vs ADB vs Smart Card. And supporting them is very tough, development and hardware conflict wise. Lightwave is moving away from Dongles due to many issues with them. And should, as happened at Meta happen in your office, many Dongles were stolen right off the backs of computers, rendering usable copies of MAX 2.5 unsable. Some pro users we've surveyed even find they are working with three, four or more Dongles.