You know, if I would have known how complicated this was going to be I'd probably have started something else... Anyway, Mike's Tux is coming along, I did some research but there are still some things that are unclear. I wore a tux in a wedding once, but that was a looooog time ago, so some things I'm guessing at, does anybody know if: Full-house formal shirts omit the front pocket, right? They take 4 studs and (I assume) a button at the collar. I already know about the button imboard of the cuff-links. I understand "proper" cuff-links have a jewel (or whatever) on both sides, not the little sway bar on the back that most of them have these days. I'm going to do a vest, maybe an alternate cumberbund, too, maybe that as part of an top-hat-and-tails update, are "proper" cumberbunds full height all the way around? Most of the ones you see are just sort of a front band hels on with rear straps. I have no idea on this. ;-) Here is a pic of the shirt, most of the rest of the set is about to the fitting stage too, Oh, My is this stuff complicated, all the tradition and all that stuff. Some parts look very old fashion to my eyes, I'm not going to do braces, I think, nore those solid shirt fronts I remember from old Three Stooges movies...

The seams look a little harsh, and should the cuffs bend quite that sharply from wrist to cufflink? The cut on the torso looks good, and the shaping on the sleeves above the cuff.

Yes, men's formal shirts have a pocket. Some men put a decorative silk hanky in there, in fact. "Proper" cufflinks have a jewel or face on one side and the other side will be something similar to the face which screws on to a little bar that holds the cuff together. Sometimes there's a small chain on the back piece to keep it attached to the main part. These are a HUGE pain in the neck to put on, though (you really need the help of someone else), which is why most men who wear cufflinks went to the sway bar. ;-) I don't know about traditional cumberbunds, only modern ones, which, as you say, don't go all around for comfort's sake. Hmmmm. They probably did go all the way around, actually. Cumberbunds date (I believe) from the Victorian/Edwardian era and the Victorians were willing to wear all kinds of uncomfortable junk, and the men who wore these clothes had servants to help them get dressed. Men's formalwear is complicated, eh? Well, you know what Rita Rudner says about that. Men all wear tuxedoes so they know they "got it right" if they're wearing the same thing everyone else is... ;-) bonni

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Just remember Jim the Cumberbund and ties can be any color as long as its black and never wear anything but oxfords or slippers with a dinner suit....My shirt had no pocket just a ribbed effect down the front......Steve

Oh and i don't think you should be able to see the buttons jim..or maybe if you can it should be studs..Steve

Just to confuse you, remember there is a wing tip collar tux shirt. Normally has pleats, high, stiff collar where only the front 1 inch folds. It is designed to show off the bow tie. A true tux shirt only has button holes for studs. The more common have accomodations for both. The button arrangement is 1 at the bottom, inside pants never seen, 4 studs and button at the neck. The cuff can be either a standard cuff, as shown by you image, or a French cuff. The French cuff will require cufflinks. I have spent many an hour in these shirts.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

Some shirts do hide the buttons. An internet search is a good start. :)

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Attached Link: http://www.skeffingtons.com/

I went to a wedding this summer and the link is the company I rented the tux from. Hope this helps :)

A tuxedo shirt has a different collar from a regular suit shirt. Try this link for a close up view of a tux collar and buttons: http://www.tuxedosonline.com/detail.asp?product_id=WPBLEND Also, you can try a search on Getty Images for pictures of what the fashionable in Hollywood are wearing n the red carpet. The image above of Duchovny and his younger sister shows one of the nicest looking tuxes I've seen, (Joan Rivers gave it an A too). It's a Gucci chocolate velvet jacket with matching silky chocolate shirt, no bow tie, for a sleek monochromatic look that was popular a few years ago. Hope that helps!

Thanks guys, this is a big help! I gather there is a "dress" shirt and a "formal dress shirt"! I think I'm going to have a switching neck part, that will pull up a wing collar or the one shown, with a couple variations on the bow tie, too. This one is supposed to have studs, I guess I'll have to do another with a pleated front and hidden buttons, too. I did do a bunch of web searches, but all the ones I found mostly all show the guy all buttoned up from the front, never with the jacket off or anything.

...rolling my eyes... remembering having to iron my exe's tux shirt... I'm positive: NO pocket... the buttons were hidden, - and the fabric were made into little, tiny folds on the front of the shirt. I'm sure that isn't the case with all tux shirts, in fact I know that. But the one I ironed (and ironed and ironed...) had them. Since the collar on the tux itself was black silk, there was no reason to take "too much" away from that. So the only thing that was really the decorations were those darned folds, and the studs over the invisible buttons.

Ha! I've seen pics of shirts with those tiny little folds, I'm going to have to try to simulate that with a texture map. And there will be no pocket in the shirt!