OK I removed the pipes on the back wall altogether. I tried the shader on the free stuff page and it has the same problem as the shader I was using. The way the light was hitting the pipes made any bump-mapping washout. Worked like a dog trying to get the cinder block wall to look good and could not get it looking right so I change to a red brick. I like how it looks but I am still going to work on the cinder block shader. Added the blue gray light as suggested by Eric and loves the effect it has on the image. I added a dial to the wall in the shadows to give a hint of more to the image. I am having a problem with the picture that I will not mention for fear of biasing you response. If you would, could you please tell me where your eye is drawn to in this picture it would help me solve my problem. Thanks for the comment on the last post everybody and please comment again on this one. -Grimpup