Effective today, Friday, November 14, 2003, Barry M. Holcomb, owner of the artwork of Michael G. Brooks (aka Sarge), is removing all products from the DAZ brokering program.

so what's up with that?

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Why?

Oh, My........I am sorry to "read" this. I have your "Wildlife" pack one and was planning to purchase pack two, when I have the cash. I do hope you are leaving on good terms, and please let me know where your products can be purchased in the furture. Do take care and good luck to you in what-ever you do. I really love your textures, but I am a "WHIM" buyer, who knows just where to get things, but only buys them when I want them for a "particular" reason. genny

I can NOT go into details. Ask DAZ. It's there problem,, not mine. I tried to talk to them. and thats all i have to say. question them,, not me.

You can still buy them until Daz remove them,, bt you know how slow they are, get them while you can before they are goin,, and then it will be up for GRABS to any 3d site anywhere,

Actually, My whim told me to go buy the pack that I don't have, but when I went there, I could NOT find it? I don't know what happened between you and "Daz", but I don't think it is my "Place" to ask them what happened or "EVEN" you for what the Problem is/was. I am somebody, who loves using Poser, who loves all the products that come along for the characters of Poser, and simply put, I am One of those folks who buys things to use with the program and their characters, when I "What It" for a particular project I am doing, or something that I think I want to do in the near future. it is "NOT" my "Place" to "ASK" daz anything. If you want us to know the problem you had........then SAY IT! Why should we all go ask, Anything, when we don't even know what your problem with them is? Our protests, will mean NOTHING if there is No basis for it. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying, as...I am all for you..........but you have to let us Know, what we should be Protesting about? genny

Interesting.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

i have the right to remain Silent!

I got an IM friend and Member here on Renderosity, and DID buy the "texture" pack from sargebear. I am happy, but I am still, wondering, what do you want us to do? genny

"i have the right to remain Silent!" yes you do...whatever...

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

i have the right to remain Silent! Miranda rights- June 16th 1966, Supreme Court ruling in the Miranda case All People Must be informed of their rights. do understand these laws? if not please, understand them, by the US Law.

Darn, where is that little "rolls-eyes" icon located??

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

log me off of this conversation. geez... good luck with your products..I surely won't buy any of them

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

I'd like to have that icon too, Caly... ;) Why attack people who are just curious? Nobody was trying to force you to say something, people just wondered what happened, which is only natural, given such an announcement without any background info. Obviously you're upset about something, but don't take it out on others.

I had to stop back again...this notice is posted in a lot of places...DAZ forum, etc... I guess we're just to say adios or something instead of wondering why the departure, its your business why you're leaving DAZ, not ours.... we just won't haver the opportunity to buy your stuff anymore. good luck

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

This reminds me of what's going on in the British media at the moment. There's a scandal going on but no-one is allowed to tell us what it's about or even who it involves, only that there's a scandal going on. If you wanted to keep it quiet you should've just removed your items from Daz & said nothing to anyone about it. Leave the cloak & dagger stuff to the press.

Looks like another one of those "I'm upset and I'm going to leave and take my with me" messages that are supposed to evoke some sort of outrage in the community where posted. If people are upset enough to leave a particular place, they should take a cue from Doc Legume...just pick up and leave without all the fanfare. Jeez!

DAZ just finished a calender contest and some people are really, really, REALLY upset that the voting isn't open to the community as a whole, but that DAZ is choosing the images they themselves feel will best showcase their products. The most reasonable argument advanced by this contingent is that some of them are professionals, too. But entering contests and even winning contests isn't the same as having an editorial eye. Most importantly, we have all seen what happens when the group chooses the winners. Anybody on an email list gets a hundred of their best buddies to sign up and vote for them. The guy with the prize is the guy with the clique behind him. I haven't read all the threads over at the DAZ forum, but that one caught my eye today with all of the pages of comments... and I suspect that this contest is what has Sargebear feeling ill-treated. Of course, it could be something to do with brokering percentages or availabilty of new models before release or such business deal... but in that case, we'd be hearing from several of their brokers, not just one. Carolly

Ask DAZ,,, not me.. in one of thier forums they just delete the OFFICIAL Notice.. Which was the advice My Corp. Lawyer gave me. Ummm????

Huh?

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

How totally bewildering!

I wonder what "You do not have access to Coordinator Administration" means? Anywho...

Quote - and so. ends The days of ours lives, until next week, folks, As the World Turns we return to our Dark Shadows. see? how nice i put that without defending anyone? it mean, well let by gones be by gones, so we or soe have had a bad week, we al do. [snip] anger is energy,, take it and create something.

everyone ... deep breath .. think calm thoughts

Breathing in...breathing out.....thinking of the beach, as I sit in Atlanta freezing my ass off....thinking who cares ;) LOL

Well, I'm not saying anything to anyone, but......

" Ask DAZ,,, not me.. in one of thier forums they just delete the OFFICIAL Notice.. Which was the advice My Corp. Lawyer gave me. Ummm????" Threads were moved to the appropriate forums. There is one still in the commons and one in the reverse normals. Others were deleted as spam. Daz was also notified of the threads. J.Greenlees Daz Forum Team

"i have the right to remain Silent!"

And yet you didn't.

...... Kendra

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=908

As the one who did the moving/deleting, this is what happened: After consultation with a fellow mod, I left the first announcement in The Commons alone (and it can be seen/replied to here: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=908 ), deleted one exact duplicate post in Rev. Normals, and moved the third exact duplicate in The Fine Print to a holding tank of sorts as evidence of the three messages being duplicates. I also sent PM's to Sarge explaining exactly what I did and why I did this, but because of confidentiality concerns, I will not repost them in public. IOW, no censorship or attempts at message dampening at all; my apologies if anyone thought otherwise. /P, - speaking as one of the mod guys over at DAZ Forums.

He usually doesn't remain silent. Need to dig up the thread between him & Greybro at Poserpros sometime. Makes for interesting reading. I still want the 'eye-roll' graphic. :) That's what I miss in forums like this, the tiny graphic emoticons that can say so much.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

I'm with you on that Caly - I often feel the need for a roll_eyes.gif myself.

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

I like the one of the little green guy laughing so hard he's crying, banging his fist on the ground. I guess that's the "ROFLMAO" emoticon. I also want to be able to insert a .wav of a snip of the "Dragnet" "dum-de-dum-dum" theme that plays every time you access a post where someone says "I have the right to remain silent." You know, you can't have a tabloid without a bit of razzle dazzle.

ROFLMAO....XO with the Dragnet theme...I'll be hearing that darn theme now the rest of the afternoon!!!!

I'd like one of a head hitting a brick wall, myself.

I guess it's no fun to pick on Curious Labs any more so now Daz is finally fair game. Yawn. -jjsemp

Ah, you mean this one? ;p

And this one?

I've also always liked this one too!

I say it was colonel mustard in the library with the rope ;) I did hear whispers about a contest that had the rules changed more than a few times ala coughAOMcough. My advice is to steer clear of official contests totally, They're rigged so often these days you could make a sailing ship out of them.

Showoff.:P

Ah, so THAT'S how you do it!

"I'd like one of a head hitting a brick wall, myself." Now, if I saw THAT one, I would have a convenient excuse to use this one: "...the little green guy laughing so hard he's crying, banging his fist on the ground. I guess that's the "ROFLMAO" emoticon"

how'd you do that???????? PLEEEEEASE??????

DOH...nevermind......same way I use them in Incredimail...DOH

Smell ----------?

Anyone would go for a pizza? I will share:) Happy little faces...

HAHAHA got it

Did you say PIZZA?

test

It worked! How do you position the animated gifs?

My turn.

Animated gifs are FUN! :)

Xantor, in order to position them you have to use HTML and link the image from another site (there are tons of great sites, such as this one). Then click "The message is in HTML, do not apply formatting." and voila!

alrighty ... shoo! take the animated gifs off to the OT forum okay? grin Penguinisto I feel your pain man, really I do rolls eyes. Now imagine doing this for three years shudder

I think Penguinisto is being really rather naughty in trying to confuse the issue with facts. Facts have no place in a good thread. Meanwhile... Lyrra - 3 years? What did you do, kill someone? (I'm assuming this is enforced community service).

"Penguinisto I feel your pain man, really I do rolls eyes. Now imagine doing this for three years shudder" No worries :) The other mods on hand at the time and I figured that a quick, straightforward, and open response solves the troubles much faster. I only hope they remain as rare and easy to resolve :) /P

Hey, we have our Kixicons!

I am completely lost. Maybe I just don't understand DAZ's brokering procedure. I know Anton stopped working for them, but it didn't seem as though there were hard feelings between them. Cath quit a brokering project as well but that was when she became overwhelmed with posts about M3...

Well, since the thread is now complete chaos... BE SURE TO VISIT MY STORE! Oh. Wait. I don't have a store. THEN BE SURE TO LOOK AT MY GALLERY IMAGE!! Oh. Sorry. Took my gallery out some time ago. Dang! Perfect opportunity like this and I can't useit.

Anton did not stop working for them.... take it from there.....

Attached Link: http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/lach.gif

Happy posting to all

Can someone list the items in question?

A

Very interesting...... Yes, animated gifs are so much fun ;)

What do you mean... Anton did not stop working for them... With other words, he lied about that?? Now why would he do a thing like that???

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

ahh, finally.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

LOL, Caly!

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

I love these threads....from unhapiness over a life experience with no offer of explanation --- to animated gifs!! What a great world is the mad community of us 3dGraphicteers!!

Yeah, gotta love it...reminds me of little kids who can't hold a single thought for more than 5 minutes...my kind of people! LOL

My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice!

Maybe it was just a matter of which was the most interesting topic.

It was rather a matter of choice, don't you think? We could all start flaming Daz on a matter on which we have no information, we could have started attacking sargebear on a matter on which we have no information, or we could play nice with our gifs. I think we made the right choice. :) Which probably means we're gifted.

ROFL!! Yep, that's it dialyn, definately we are gifted :)

I was gifted today. Naw, REALLY. Someone gave me a gift! Can you believe it? Where's the happy dancing emoticon when you need one?

all i know is and heard was anton was shown the door,, i did not say he quit.... and to me its shame.

Oh I want an animated Snoopy doing his happy dance emoticon!!!

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

Anyone watch the vampire show, Angel? It's pretty hilarious. There's a vampire with a soul that's a ghost atm, his name is Spike. There's a vampire with a soul champion called Angel. To quote Spike on Angel who tends to brood. "He's such a drama queen." I think the rolling eye gif would be Spike's fave.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

Like this?

Attached Link: http://www.darkharbor.com/snoopydance/

*grin* Good one! Check out this page though- http://www.darkharbor.com/snoopydance/ 

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

some people think its 50-50 split... well, during the days of zygote it was 50-50,, but when the spit happen,, around april 2001 or later,, they came up with this 5% CC ChargeBack, for CC fraud,, made some type of excuse about it.. ( i have it all doucumentated dating back from Nov 2000) in 2000 to 2001 it was 50-50,, until Zygote left,,, and april as i had mention above,, things got screwy,,, they started this chargeback stuff, 2.5% for them and 2.5% from my earnings,,, now thats not really 50-50 is it? like they say on there site .. but that is just one issue. i can say this now, cause i'm not a broker there anymore.. BUT there are certain things i can not tell. but some of you can do the math.

anyone looking for a way to gracefully bow out of a thread feel free to use this one....

Now would I be a merchant...which 'twill ne'r hap...I just buy me a bunch of cheap blank CDs...ya send me a money order, ya gits yer goodies and I keep 100%. No hassles, no probs...and will even leave the CD session open so ya's kin put a music vid or porno movie on it.

Staring Blankly at the last sentence, above!

Thanks x2000

"but some of you can do the math" Well, let's see. I have a learning disability where math is concerned (it's dyscalculia, in case anyone thinks I'm just being sarcastic), but I think I can do this... Since DAZ pays half the chargeback and the merchant pays have the chargeback and then the profits are also split half, hmmm, that sure sounds like HALF to me, and HALF is 50/50. Put another way: Item cost: $20 Chargeback: $1 (that's 5%, right?) DAZ pays $.50 of the chargeback fee. Merchant pays $.50 of the chargeback fee. Profit: DAZ gets $9.50 Profit: Merchant gets $9.50 9.50 + 9.50 + .50 + .50 = $20 Well, maybe I'm just confused, but that sure looks like a 50/50 split to me... bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Note to self: Glean secrets of Sarge's new math, then take over world.

bonni can't add.... MIGAL CAN!!!! 47.5%

Doesn't that also mean that Daz only get 47.5% as well? with 5% going to the CC company, or am I missing a vital point somewhere while trying to work this out in the dark?

Attached Link: DAZ Brokering Contract

Honestly, Sarge, to suddenly make such as a big deal over something that has been in place for quite some time is absurd in my eyes. The brokering license you signed entitled you to 50% of the profits after any unavoidable fees, I suggest re-reading the contract.

It's all in how you look at it. Let's say I have a $10 item ... Store A pays 70% broker fees, but not as many people visit. I only sell 30. 70% of $300 is $210. Store B pays 50% broker fees, and tons of people go there, but my product quickly gets buried because of the humongous number of brokers and items being sold. I only sell 40. 50% of 400 is $200. Store C pays 50% broker fees, less the credit card chargeback. But it has a reputation for good quality, and people look forward to purchasing from there. As a result, I sell 60 of your item. 47.5% of 60 = $285. Exposure is also a key factor here. Weigh ALL of the options to see what the best one is.

That is a good way of looking at Deecey. You can also sell directly from your website and have 100% provits but if you only sell three items, you only earn $30. If you are going to make money, you have to treat this as a business. If I were a merchant (and I'm not), I'd do tests in different markets and see which produces the best results for me. And, remember, customers get into ruts they hate to break. I have four sites from which I buy almost weekly...given my personal habits, it would take something very, very interesting for me to shop elsewhere (though I will, if something is a good enough buy or unique or if I have a good relationship with a particular merchant). I might be unusual in that respect, but I doubt it.

If you are going to make money, you have to treat this as a business. Right ... and artistic people (myself included - so I'm not pointing any fingers here) have a tendency to let their emotions and ego rule over their thoughts. After all, art IS all about feeling. However, the mix of emotions and business is a combination that doesn't mix well - it's like oil and vinegar. But sometimes you have to step back and look at the bigger picture before you take action.

What Contract???? party B never got the contract from Party A. (DAZ) so how can i compare?? why do you think i hired a LAWYER sir????

yes.. but are listening to them? more popcorn anyone?

well if you ask me. and you didnt but i'll give my 2 cents. if you cant say anything about it and dont want to why did you post this notice everywhere a person even blinks i have seen this more then once and am getting tired of the drama i have to say your name isnt familer but shoulden't all this drama be kept between the partys involved?

... "What Contract???? party B never got the contract from Party A. (DAZ) so how can i compare?? why do you think i hired a LAWYER sir????" ... I'm totally confused here ... without a contract (which I believe is clearly posted on DAZ's site), what will the lawyer have to work with? Also ... if the chargebacks have been a part of the brokering policy since DAZ split with Zygote - which was a heck of a long time ago - why did it take so long to say or do something about it? There seems to be a lot more at play here. Pass the popcorn you two. ;-)

Speaking of passing things, how about passing this thread to the OT forum or some other appropriate place. It just doesn't seem as if someone talking about a lawsuit, lawyers (yech!), and such belong in this forum. I think the point has been made.

what? and have him threaten, bully, insult and generally savage the Admins here like he's been doing at Daz3D? hell he's not worked out that 90% of the Admins there are volunteers that don't actually get paid by Daz in the first place!

oh for an Edit button and the bullying on Poserpro's over his vendetta against a admin there... passes out the popcorn

whoops Sorry Russell, it's gone now. One day I will remember not to do things like that.

For those who like to keep track of things, there's a little more background below. Do keep in mind that a lot of the time he posted the same thing multiple times in different forums. :) The confusing intro to Mr. S3d- http://www.poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16527&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 With a dash of hounding of Greybro- http://www.poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17630&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 The jump to Renderosity- http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1453929 The jump to Daz & "before there was Daz there was Zygote" - http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=1539&highlight=#1539 When he wanted Daz to open up voting on the calendar contest- http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=363 I think we've all seen some form of the "Offical I am leaving Daz" notice post. :) At the Poserpros one you see an interesting angle- http://www.poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18736 Here's the threat to ending /Ps's job post- http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=921 and there's plenty more out there I'm sure. :D Now I need to go out and enjoy the rest of the day. :)

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

"What Contract???? party B never got the contract from Party A. (DAZ) so how can i compare?? why do you think i hired a LAWYER sir????" Oops, that is strange. Wonder what went wrong because they managed to send my contract from Utah/USA to Germany.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

np c1rcle. :)

Before anyone jumps to any conclusions here, though it's quite obvious what the general opinion here is, please bear in mind that without having agreed to a brokering contract, DAZ will not host your products. I've signed that contract a few times now, as well as NDAs and other legal documents with DAZ... and never once have I had Sarge's problem of the amazing dissapearing non-existant contract. No, in fact I do not believe that Sarge's gripes have anything whatsoever to do with the CC Chargebacks, anymore than I think any of you do.

Attached Link: http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/jump.gif

Ah, life is good...hehehehe. Laurie

tell you what i'm going to do,, i'm not going to post anything here,, you want info,, go running over to DAZ and get all the scoop... ROS doesn't need this shit... DAZ does,, and to those who don't believe me, hey if they fuck you, don't say i didn't warn ya. cause i'm posting it over there,, I'm not under NDA,, and I have the paper trail and other stuff too to prove it all. so have a good day folks.:)

Please continue this discussion in the Copyright Forum or OT. Thank you. Further discussion in this thread will result in it being locked. Lyrra (Moderator)

I'm not sure anyone cares about the scoop, sarge. You posted a thread here, in my opinion, as an avenue to find some way to disparage DAZ. For my part, since I'm not a broker, I don't really care what kind of problems you think you have. As a buisness person, if you don't like the contract or agreement you have with someone, then get out of it. There is no need to run around crying to everyone else about it. You want to muster some sort of mutiny against DAZ? Then take it to the merchant forum (though I suspect the R'City merchant forum isn't the correct place for it either). As a matter of fact, THIS forum isn't the correct place. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that R'City hasn't removed the thread...I thought they had a good working relationship with DAZ and to allow (perhaps, slanderous) remarks of this kind is a bit surprising to me. I would think they would opt to remove (or move) the thread altogether. Now, don't get me wrong. I feel for the "vendor crunch". I know prices are low as hell for us buyers. I think I understand how hard it is to try and make a living at this sort of thing. BUT, I don't think you will find a lot of sympathy here for your problem. There, I've already spent too much time in this thread. So have you, sarge. I suggest you find a more comfortable way to sell your models. Get a website and do it yourself if everyone else is pissing you off.

Darn, Lyrra, "the tired and weary one", you and I cross-posted a similar thought. :-)

Dang. That's what I get for showing up late. {i have the right to remain Silent! Miranda rights- June 16th 1966, Supreme Court ruling in the Miranda case All People Must be informed of their rights. do understand these laws?} I understand that this ruling came from the case of "Miranda vs. The State of Arizona", in which Miranda was arrested and not informed of his constitutional rights when he was interrogated by the police. His confession led to his arrest and his sentence. His attorney filed a case which claimed that he was never informed of his constitutional rights, and therefore, he should not have been found guilty. After reviewing this case, the Supreme Court ruled that all persons placed under arrest must be informed of their constitutional rights before the government agency (police, FBI, etc) interrogates them. These rights include the right to not incrimate oneself with one's testimony, and the right to an attorney to properly defend against the state's case. There are some exceptions: 1) The police can detain you and do not have to read you these rights if they don't ask you any questions. You can be arrested and processed, but if they never interrogate you, you won't be read these rights. (There is no "right to remain silent" if they don't ask you anything.) When you go before a judge for the initial hearing, the rules change, though. 2) These rights only apply when dealing with government agencies* and DO NOT, yes DO NOT apply to private groups, such as corporations, businesses, and (not suprisingly) public Internet forums. If you don't want to answer a question posted by someone in a forum, don't answer it. But, don't be absurd and claim your "Miranda rights" give you the right to stay silent. *As a fairly obvious aside: these rights only apply when dealing with governmental agencies in the United States. A person can scream "Miranda rights" all they want, but if they're in a British court room, those rights mean nothing. P.S. In a "twist of fate", a few years after his release, Miranda was arrested on a drinking & driving charge... and, yes, the police read him his "Miranda rights".