Hay I just wanted to let you know that you can find my new character "Teen Jenny" In the free stuff ;)

Rendergirls

Thank you,but..... That DL is over 26 MEGABYTES!!...what is in it? SWAMP

Hi res Textures for the mat pose I think they are the 22 MEGABYTES !!! The rest is the character and mat poes ;)

Rendergirls

It appears that the textures in this package are based on one of Zrincx's commercial packages. Is this correct? If so, why are you offering it as a freebie? :] Fish

Oh, Christ. I just downloaded and installed the damn thing. I'll delete it. Damn damn damn damn and damn.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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No fish It is based on a free tex that I found on a Jap site for some time a go :)

Rendergirls

SamTherapy whats wrong with it Im new in this tell me so I can fix it ....

Rendergirls

Ok, another question... DO you have permission from the Japanese site to redistribute?

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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What's wrong is that if it is a copyright infringement, I don't want it on my HD. That's what I meant.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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It have a free copyright at least on the readme so it shuld be ok to use it .... ?

Rendergirls

Another thing about basing a texture on someone else's, even if you have permission... It's considered polite to at least credit the original creator.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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No it is NOT a free tex. That tex is created from original photos by a good friend of mine - Zrincx. If you found it on another site for free, then THEY have infringed copyright. I am in the process of trying to get hold of Zrincx to bring him over here and look at it. But I have already been able to identify all the details in both the body and headtexs as uniquely Zrincx's. Please give us the URL to that site so we can go chase them. :] Fish

SamTherapy can you tell me what you think is wrong wit the character ???

Rendergirls

Please post a link to the original. I'd like to read it for myself.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Could you post that readme here?

Well if I think It is best if I stop the download of this character untill we know if this tex is mad by your friend Zrincx. I go and delete it on my site now And Ill see if i can find that Jap site my bookmaks I have abaut 5000 so it will take some time.

Rendergirls

Okay..... Here's a comparison of Z's original (LEFT tex) and the one included in Jenny (RIGHT tex). ONLY difference is that Z's copyright text has been removed. The texs are otherwise EXACTLY the same in size and appearance. (This is a heavily reduced size I've posted here and defaced w Specimen text) You would be wise to remove this freebie immediately. It may well be that the rest of the package is perfectly fine - but then without the textures. :] Fish

Im looking thrug my hd now I dont know if I still have that readme but if I still have it I,ll post it here And I have stoped the down load I dont want to step on any ones copyright.....But I Think I have that Jap site in my bookmaks so wait a bit it takes time to look thrug so manny sites !!!

Rendergirls

Well I have deleted the download for now and Ill delete the texture I have used as a base from my hd to as I have not payed for it... then Ill post the character at a latere time when I have finis my oven texture ... It is a good thing that this was found out so soon and Im realye sorry that I posted this package now instead of waithing untill my texture was finished !!!

Rendergirls

I downloaded this freebie a little while ago and opened it up to try it out. All of the mat poses for "Teen Jenny" were searching for a texture that wasn't included in Wishmaster's zip file. Guess what that file, and file path, was?

Case closed. zaps file and empties recycle bin

Attached Link: http://secure.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=867

Just confirmed it. One of the most beautiful tex packages ever created in my opinion. :] Fish

Gone from my HD, too.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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... Immediately. More than 250 people did. :] Fish

Will it EVER end......

Im sorry Fish I did not know that It had a copyright as I downloaded it copyright free I have deleted the texture from my hd so I cant say if this is the texture but the folder name in my texture was Zrincx so I can only say that Im so sorry and as soon as I find that site ore readme Ill send it to you I think that you will know what to do with it Im realye sorry I did not intent to do somthing wrong I hope you understad....Well I will go and look for that jap site and Ill get back when I know more.

Rendergirls

Well that is a lesson I have lerand I did realye think that it was ok to use this tex ore I would never have used it...

Rendergirls

NEVER NEVER NEVER make anything from what you FIND on the web. You can NEVER assume someone else is ethical. Only ever use your own work if you are not 100% sure.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Well that is a lesson I have lerand I did realye think that it was ok to use this tex ore I would never have used it...

Rendergirls

Respectfully there are some points I would like to mention that I do not understand. 1) You have to have had his goddess texture under his name or else that MAT would give you an error message. 2) You had to edit the file for the MAT Pose and his name is right there???? I assume all the other lines you replaced have his name on those lines too? Lastly is your version of Poser valid? why is there a Metacreatiions tag in your listing? That was so many years ago??? Not to make a hard time for you but it looks very suspicious.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Hey, wishmaster - I'm NOT pickin' on you..... believe me, I am well aware that one can make mistakes. It's really easy to miss an issue like this especially if you're fairly new. Even experienced and well known people here have made this kind of mistake..... The most important thing for me here is to INFORM both you and everyone else about the situation as quickly as possible - first and foremost to protect a really nice guy's copyright. And to try and persuade everyone who D'Led to throw it away ASAP. As far as I'm concerned you are MOST WELCOME to post stuff - freebies, images, whatever, show us what cool stuff you can do. But you need to be careful...... So hey, chill, guy :o) :] Fish

Hrm - I already have (that is, bought) the texture package in question long ago, so it makes no sense to dload 26 MB for something I basically have already. You can re-release it w/o any texture package, but something kinda creeped me out: If I may suggest, in the future don't put up a thumbnail of some semi-adult with her legs splayed out in an erotic pose... not saying it to be a prude, just saying it to prevent the other potential firestorm that's sure to come once enough folks see it. /P

I deleted the link in the Free Stuff area. I don't know who approved the file but I'll let everyone know about the problem in the back room. Thanks so much, FishNose, for catching that!

Well My poser is valid it is old but i have payed for it I have the orginal laying Yes the name was on the folder but dum smock as I am I dident think that it had a copyright I have downloaded manny things from the web and I havent looked at Daz to see if there is a tex that have the same name but maby it would be a good idea to do so I did not know the name Zrincx It is first now the last 5 md i realy have had the time to use poser so I havent a big know how about names in the fild but as i said I`M sorry and I have deleted the download and the tex and every thing else from my hd sorry again

Rendergirls

I deleted the Teen Jenny zipfile from my hd, then started to clean out the character files, tex files etc from my folders (I'd already installed it.) I decided to have another look at the character before I deleted it, and guess what I found? Looks like this freebie also rips off "Eva", a MP item by soccer-coach, for the body and head morphs.

soccer_coach, as some of you may remember, landed in hot water a while back for his blatant pirating of Blackhearted's "Nia" character.

Zrincx certainly didn't deserve to be the victim of a theft, but I can't feel too bad for soccer_coach. What goes around comes around, I guess. :-)

Thanks Fish Im glad you say this I hope this will be a lesson not only to me but to all folks I know I will Never use any thing found on the web ever again.... Holly shit I almost shit in my pant...And again Im sorry And I hope you all will forgive me because I made a mistake and on Im not going to make again !!!

Rendergirls

I came over here immediately as soon as my d/l attempt on the file bombed. One question is, why was the thumbnail not removed when the file was? Does this mean if the pack is realeased w/o the Goddess texture it is okay? [I have the tex pack]. As to the Metacreations tag someone mentioned, I bought my Poser 4 b4 I ever heard of Curious Lab, so I think that is a valid path. As to the refs to zrincx in the PZ2 files, I had seen that name many times on posts when I first started using Poser and had no idea what/who it referred to...maybe everyone is not familiar with the name? I am not trying to defend anyone, I don't know most of the folks making the comments...my point is: Pointing the finger and making even subtle accusations w/o having all the facts is not democratic.

No fauve Its me I thought that I removed all The Eva morps with morphmanager I did start to model from her and when I finised her I liked her so much that i would giv her to all as thanks for the free stuff I have gotten here I used morphmanager to delet morps This shuld be okay to do ore is this not alawed ???

Rendergirls

'Lastly is your version of Poser valid? why is there a Metacreatiions tag in your listing? That was so many years ago??? Not to make a hard time for you but it looks very suspicious. ' actually if you have the original Poser 4 by Meta, thats the path you get... even if you apply the patches from CL. that 'tag' is actually the path to the program... the path don't change with the patches.....

"soccer_coach, as some of you may remember, landed in hot water a while back for his blatant pirating of Blackhearted's "Nia" character. Zrincx certainly didn't deserve to be the victim of a theft, but I can't feel too bad for soccer_coach. What goes around comes around, I guess. :-) " unfortunately, given his history i doubt that whatever material of SC's thats in this ripoff was his own to begin with, so its likely that some other poor merchant is probably being ripped off by conduit here. as for him being in hot water? well, he was for a day or two, but hes back selling here in the marketplace again as if nothing had ever happened. at the time when i asked why rosity didnt freeze his merchant cheque since it was such a glaring ripoff of both the morph and texture, stated that unfortunately it was too late to do anything because the cheques had been mailed the day before. well, since SC has been selling in the MP ever since then, theyve had ample opportunity to deduct the stolen profits from his account and refunt the purchasers of his ripoff product. but apparently thats too much of a bother, and hes making them some money so i guess it makes little difference as to where their profit comes from. all hail fucking capitalism.

wishmaster - the morphs in hip, chest , lcol and rcol named 'Jenny' all contain the original morph names - 'Eva' or 'Eva1'. I had a quick look through the cr2. So the original morphs by soccer_coach are still there, just renamed 'Jenny'. Right click on the morph's name in Morph Manager and choose properties - you'll see the original name there in all it's glory. There's more info in a Poser file than you may be aware of :o) :] Fish

Well Fish I have deleted it and Ill for one can say that it will be a long time before I make a character again Ill take me the time and lern every thing by hard ... Ill cant say Im sorry to manny times ...

Rendergirls

watches the scrimmage

Its lete her and Ill go to bed have to go to work but Ill see you after work..

Rendergirls

I think that I believe thewishmaster. This looks like a newbie mistake.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I can't understand why anyone would post something in free stuff that they didn't make. What's the point?

"Lastly is your version of Poser valid? why is there a Metacreatiions tag in your listing? That was so many years ago???" Ehmm Phoenix my poser is very valid and the path to it has Metacreations in it. Does this make me look suspicious too? My copy of poser came from Metacreations, My copy of Poser Pro pack as well, but it is still under Metacreations. All the patches have been applied and guess what it's still under Metacreations. That does NOT look suspicious.

That was so many years ago??? Uhm, no, not really. And like SR's, mine came from Metacreations. Let's reserve the suspicions for the things that matter, like the textures. Insofar as "I can't understand why anyone would post something in free stuff that they didn't make", look at it from the newbie's perspective: he put together what he thought was an original character. Yep, using stuff from the web, but don't a lot of us do that as well at first? How many times have any of us seen a freebie come with a catalog of required pieces from somewhere else? Is this so different?

Someone truly intent on a rip-off would most likely sell the character. Not post it in freestuff. I am aware of the fact that freestuff items are sometimes stolen, for whatever reason, but I don't think that is the case here. Thewishmaster comes across as a person GENUINELY unaware of the issues involved. At least, that's the way that I read the situation. He knows better now.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Just a quiet lurker here. I think Phoenix is saying if Wishmaster is all new to Poser and the forums, how did he get a MEtacreations copy of Poser 4. Returning to Lurker mode...

As bizarre as it sounds, there are some folk around here who think that if you give something away, you're not violating anyone's copyright because you're not making money off it. Hey, I never said it would make sense.

why is there a Metacreatiions tag in your listing? Anyone who purchased Poser 4 before the Metacreations breakup in 2000 has a valid copy of Poser that is installed in the MetaCreations folder by default. When you upgrade to version 4.03 by using the download available by Curious Labs, your program still resides in the MetaCreations folder even though the shortcuts for them say Curious Labs. I can't remember what happens when you install the Pro Pack over the MetaCreations installation because this time around I changed the path to Curious Labs when I did my fresh install of P4. But I would think it also updates everything in the MetaCreations folder so that your runtime stays intact. Am I correct in that assumption?

Yes, stolen is stolen, regardless of whether the item in question is for sale, or given away free. Perhaps thewishmaster is new as a character creator. But not necessarily new to Poser. As an end-user and a customer, if I were to contemplate the jump to becoming a merchant.......I'd have to give the move a LOT of thought. A hobby is a pleasure. However, when business issues get thrown into the mix, things might not be much fun: your enjoyable hobby suddenly becomes a lot like work.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

"Lastly is your version of Poser valid? why is there a Metacreatiions tag in your listing? That was so many years ago???"

and

"Just a quiet lurker here. I think Phoenix is saying if Wishmaster is all new to Poser and the forums, how did he get a MEtacreations copy of Poser 4."

My poser 4 is from metacreations and was purchased a long time ago. I also set it aside for about a year before getting back into it. Anyone could have done the same thing and after finally using it, chose to get to know P4 before investing in a buggy P5.
AND Renderosity is not the center of the poser universe. It's entirely feasible to be "new to the forums" and still using P4.

Let's not create suspicions that don't necessarily exist.

...... Kendra

I agree with Kendra.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I believe from what he/she has said that thewishmater is a newbie trying to be creative in making their own pieces for Poser. If they were truely guilty of theft I think they would have promptly vanished when this started, as so many do, instead of almost grovelling for forgiveness from a community they want to be a part of. Just my 0.02p. Catlin

I'm inclined to give wishmaster the benefit of the doubt. We've had newbies, and people from various culture make similar mistakes. Since Wish pulled the file immediately, and as long as this isn't repeated we'll just keep an eye on him for a bit. Lyrra oh ..and my Poser4 is in a Metacreations folder, in case anyone cares.

metacreations kinda has a nice ring to it..two cheers :)

What a thing to wake up to.. (again). I think its incredible! -no matter how "free stuff" an item is, the risk of posting copyrighted material is just/always IMHO a VERY sad mistake, and that the posters first important assignment is to find out EVERYTHING about the content he intend to post, before he do so! If you had done so, then you would have the adress on the person who gave you a green light to do it, well, maybe not the creator but at least a "person". Well, at least Im also watching this thread for now. :/ Z.

Unfortunately, I'm not as generous with benefits of doubt.

He knew to rename the targetGeoms in Morph Manager. If there was no intent to mislead, why did he take the time to rename the morphs? Is it really possible that anybody, newbie or otherwise, could somehow believe renaming of files and specific text within files somehow constitutes original work?

It took him all of seven minutes to recall that the texture came from a "Jap site," but hours later, he can't say which, "Jap site?"

It's heartwarming to see tolerance, but that's not what I'm seeing here. I'm seeing people invent explanations versus all reasonable logic.

Sorry this happened to you again, Zrincx.

My poser directory reads: C:3D Poser4Runtime...blah, blah in order to keep it close to the top of my root directory. Only Metacreation tag that shows up is when I open the program. Only posting this tidbit so I can uncheck the "Email me when someone replies" box...only way I can prevent getting more notices and since the file has been pulled I consider this a dead issue.

Come on, getting someones morphs and someone else's textures (from anywhere) and then packaging them as your own 'creation' is still unethical - even if they were freebies. Wishmaster was naive to the extreme if he thought that somehow he had made something he could pass on as his own. His mat file certainly implies he does own the Zrincz texture and he must have know that he had nabbed the morphs from somewhere coz he included the original dial names. Sure, he was quick to apologise and remove the offensive item but IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN POSTED! Theft of another artists work is always theft - even if you give it a new name! Did you really not know this, Wishmaster?

"Hay I just wanted to let you know that you can find my new character "Teen Jenny" In the free stuff ;)" Why is it YOURS? Why is it NEW? Elgyfu shakes her head sadly

Well, if I take a bunch of someone else's P4 morphs and apply them to Posette (mesh not by me) and choose one of Tim Laubach's textures to put on top, and add some hair by Koz, the resulting persona IS new (never been seen before) and IS mine (wouldn't have happened without my making her). Of course, I don't put the result in freestuff or anywhere else ...

wishmaster did make a serious mistake, but I don't think its necessary to grind his face in the dirt. that should be reserved for ppl like soccer coach whose behavior I found appalling after reading the thread BH had posted back in May....

Sh**, so sorry to see that this has happened again to you, Z :-(.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Never would have noticed the Goddess texture if it hadn't been for this "problem" but now I've added it to my DAZ wishlist items for the next time I purchase. I don't think I have any good freckle textures.

Either I'm reading a different thread, or some of y'all should be ashamed of yourselves. Here's the thread I was reading. 0:00 WISHMASTER: Hey, I'd like to share something I put together that I think is neat. 0:45 SOMEONE ELSE: I think this is Zrincx's texture. Is that right? 0:52 W: No, I got it from a Japanese freebie site. 0:55 SE: Do you have permission to redistribute. 0:58 W: The readme said it was copyright free. Did I mess up? 0:59 SE: That's definitely Zrincx texture 1:07 W: I'll take it down and try to find the Japanese site I got it from. 1:14 SE: Here's a comparison. 1:15 W: I'm so sorry. I've killed the download. I didn't mean to step on anyone's copyright. 1:24 W: I killed the download and I deleted this off my HD. I'm so sorry. I messed up. 1:48 W: I'm really really sorry. I didn't mean to hurt anyone. I'll send you that Japanese site as soon as I can find it. 1:52 W: I learned my lesson. I know better now. 1:55 W: I learned my lesson. I thought it was OK. I'm sorry. 2:29 W: Thanks for warning me. I'm really embarassed. I'm sorry. 3:09 W: I'll make absolutely sure I make everything myself by hand next time. I can't say I'm sorry enough. For those of you who can't do math, he took the download down 22 MINUTES after it was first pointed out that it MIGHT not have been kosher, and 8 MINUTES after it reasonably confirmed. Man, if only the Renderosity store had that kind of turn around. He then apologized 7 TIMES. And what response is he getting? A "Hey, we all make mistakes. You know better now. Just don't do it again." A "Thanks for acting so quick to make things right"? No, of course not. He's getting this McCarthyistic BS of questioning everything he might have ever done. Hey, maybe we should take a pound of flesh while we're at it. I'm so sorry perfect demigods of Poserdom have to put up with those pesky flawed humans running around. Sometimes I am ashamed to be a part of this "community", such as it is.

Don't apply that to me. Look at my post 30 above, I did exactly what you ask, said "...believe me, I am well aware that one can make mistakes". I certainly have no reason to be ashamed. Please retract your criticism in my case. "perfect demigods of Poserdom" you say. Sarcastic and very pleasant. Did I ever, anywhere in this thread come on this way? Did I act meanly? No. I don't like coming in the line of fire when I really think I've behaved decently. I have also talked to wishmaster privately - we're getting along fine, thank you. :] Fish

There hasn't been a good witchhunt in a few weeks. :) I agree with Migal: this person knew how to rename targetGeoms AND rework a MAT Pose AND that the source texture came from a "Japanese site" (among other things). So, this is either a case of "I'm a beginner and didn't know it was wrong" or it's a case of someone testing the waters for a possible Marketplace product ("If people don't catch this item, I'll put another one up for sale later. If you do catch it, it's a freebie, so no money changed hands.") Just to clear things up: everyone who installed Poser prior to the buy-up by Curious Labs (and who installed it to "C:program filesMetacreationsPoser" is hereby using an illegal copy. Turn yourself in now before we send software police to your house. And may god have mercy on your soul if you installed Poser 4 over your previous versions of Poser to "C:Program FilesGhost EffectsPoser". And there is a special level in hell reserved for those lowlife people who do not install software to the "recommended" path, like me. There are those of us who really don't want the company's name in the folder structure. (Frankly, I don't care know currently makes Poser... okay, that's not true... I need to know who to yell at when it crashes.) I installed Poser to "D:3DProgramsPoser". There, I said it. I didn't install to the "Curious Labs" folder. I must be using an illegal copy. Feel free to send the software police to my place and take me away.

Don't be so quick to judge. I seem to recall that Traveler pulled many of his early morphs because they were showing up in commercial products in the marketplace when it first started, and some of those products were created by members that have become "successful" in this "community" and others.

Many people have made the mistake of using others morphs and textures as a basis for freebies not understanding that it was improper to do so. This is a mistake that has even been done by some that have gone on to become "perfect demigods of Poserdom". What's even more disheartening is that some of these "demigods" only crawl out of the woodwork when there is a "witch to burn" and rarely to contribute anything of substance to this community.

thewishmaster made an error. It's not difficult to believe someone might use morphs from a character offered as a freebie on another site thinking it was ok to do so...especially if the included readme stated so...then rename those morphs to match the name of the character they are creating.

The "evidence" offers little to indicate a deliberate theft or not...and since it doesn't we should be willing to give thewishmaster the benefit of the doubt and believe his explanation...especially since he pulled the item as soon as proof that it "infringed" was offered.

I have to agree with FyreSpiryt, I too am sometimes ashamed to be a part of this "community".

I agree with illusions.

I wonder if we've now succeeded in driving off another one.

Someone that could have become a contributor to the community. But, due to a festering, hardened paranoia, we now seek to slap down anyone new that tries to do anything.

Some people are just waiting to be offended. So that they can yell "AHA!!! GOTCHA!!!!".

I understand that it is a crime to steal someone else's work. But, I fear that the Poser "community" has become so cannibalistic in its outlook, that we are hurting ourselves far more than we know.

Whine, whine, whine. Accuse, accuse, accuse. Please consider giving thewishmaster, and others like him, a break.

You don't always have to assume the worst in every situation.

Fishnose did a good job, and was helpful.

However, some of the others have been nothing but negative.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Im not trying to becom a poser merchant and testing the waters for a possible Marketplace product I just made this character from the stuff I had and when she was finised I liked her and I would only be happy to give somthing back to you all...Well now I have gone and deleted my hole poser pack from my hd Ill install it from new so I know that what I have is only things that I payed for no more tex and other stuff from free stuf from around the web the only way I can be sertent that Im not using stuff that is not okay to use ... If I ever post any thing to the free stuff again I will make it all my self ore ask before making it I am sorry that this have happend and I wish That I had known Zrincx`s name before using hes tex but I did not . Im guilty in using hes texture and Im guilty for posting it in the free stuf as a part of a free character pack and for that Im very muche sorry but having a old poser pack with a Metacreatiions tag do not make me guilty in using a illegal poser coppy for Im not. I can only say that Im sorry SORRY and this will never happen from me ever again I can under stand why folks get mad on me SORRY.

Rendergirls

@ thewishmaster -- I, for one, believe you. Completely. But, I don't think that you are the one that should be apologizing here. You've already done that. I think that some others should apologize. Perhaps we can be a real "community". A community that supports - instead of eats - it's own.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

thewishmaster, I believe you too. You've apologized, you've admitted your mistakes, and you have learned from what's happened. I think if Lyrra, who has a ton of experience in judging these kinds of things, feels as if we should give the benefit of the doubt in the matter, I'm inclined to take her lead. Live and learn, and there is no one on this forum that hasn't made a mistake of one kind or another at sometime in their lives (even if they won't admit it). I also think it's time we moved on. Take care, thewishmaster. And don't get too discouraged by this experience.

Ok, I am sick and tired of listening to excuses, one more idiotic than the other, so I am going to pull out the few items I have in my store here. Wasent earning a great deal on these items anyway, -wasent expecting that either, but since so many have a problem concerning what is yours and mine, here, that issue takes the last fun out if it all. Thanks to FishNose, my good faithful buddy, and thanks to the folks who purchased my stuff, + a few other really nice folks. Z.

<<>> Sorry that you feel that way. As the "wounded" party, you are entitled to your opinion. I hope that you don't take this personally, but I think that you are over-reacting. And, yes, FishNose did a good job. I'll still buy your excellent products, wherever you sell them. Great stuff.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I've never posted any freestuff thewishmaster, but certainly empathize with you. I use free stuff in some of my renders, but try very hard to credit either the person who made it available or the site where I got it. If I don't know, I will say so. Sometimes that helps me find out who did create it so I can give them proper credit. By posting this information, if the items were ripped off, at least the original creator may recognize it and be able to track down the culprit. When I first started using Bryce, Vue and Poser, I downloaded freebies like crazy. Fortunately, I've read enough of these threads to know not post anything as a freebie that is not 100% my own doing. I've seen this happen to others......some who I know would have never done it maliciously. It can happen. I don't think thewishmaster would have posted a notice in this forum if he was trying to rip someone off.

Zrincx Im sorry I can understand you are mad I was wondering if we can find a way I can make this up for you. I will gladly pay you But I dont have manny monny so if we can find a amount each month that you and I find is okay Ill do it let me know what you think and then see what we can findouth ???

Rendergirls

DOES NOT sound much like a crook, does he?

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I really empathize with both parties here. Zrincx is one of my fave artists so naturally my sympathies are with him as the injured party. But I also understand the enthusiasm and passion for 3d art, especially when one is starting out. So I don't want to judge wishmaster too harshly. I think he has more than attoned for his sins, and as far as any future misbehavior on his part, thats not likely as hes already aroused suspicion.

If it would solve the problem, I'll buy the texture from Zrincx and gift it to thewishmaster so he can have a legal copy. Really, why not allow this to be resolved? thewishmaster made a mistake, but the site where the item was offered in the first place is the real offender here.

RE:Zrincx Im sorry I can understand you are mad I was wondering if we can find a way I can make this up for you. I will gladly pay you But I dont have manny monny so if we can find a amount each month that you and I find is okay Ill do it let me know what you think and then see what we can findouth ??? No way! -its not about money..I repeat, NOT about MONEY. -and Im not mad at you wishmaster, believe me. But I have just been through almost the same issue with a person "who didnt knew!" or "wasent aware"..etc. and you know what, its exactly the whole discussion about whats right and wrong vs. peoples oppinions that Im tired off. People can think what they want. And I hope I am allowed too? I am not feeling "stepped on", only a tiny bit, many others have been there before me, and with outcomes, a lot worse. So, if anyone arent offended, Ill just pack my bag and at least remove my tiny store here, and do some rendering instead of pretending I am a merchant. :/ Z.

Zrincx, of course you can think what you want. You have that right. And the right to express it. I think all of us have seen the hurt caused by theft of product....and most of us are in deep sympathy for the aggrivation and frustration that causes. I'm aware, and others no doubt are that it is about the principle and not the money. It would be nice if we could get it resolved. I think thewishmaster was just trying to come up with a way to show a sincere apology. It's up to you whether or not to accept it. I believe thewishmaster really is trying to mend fences. You have the choice whether or not to help mend the fence or burn it down. I'm off this thread. Take care all.

I think : Thewishmaster made a mistake and frankly if it comes down to it I WILL buy him a copy of the texture. (If dialyn doesn't first) Sometimes you got to give a little bit of lieniency. A long time ago a someone packaged up a lot of poses and put them up. He did not understand we don't allow that. Today he's THE biggest pose maker around, Highly respected and gives a lot back to this community. If he was blasted like this I do not think he would have stuck around. Now I do think it is piss-poor that Phoenix made a claim that anyone with the Metacreations path has a illegal copy of poser and hasn't come back to apologize for that. I also think that it's piss poor of some people in this thread to blast holes in wishmaster for something (Sorry guys) that was a mistake. I fully believe that texture can be found somewhere on the net if you look hard enough. We just need to let people know not to use those things and redistribute them. Someone did take the copyright off that texture.. but NO ONE HERE can prove it was thewishmaster. Frankly I accept all 8 of his apologies and will wait to see where he is a year from now. Who knows he could be another Pose Master, or better who gives fantastic things to this community. And maybe he will forgive those of you who are blasting him here. but .. maybe not.

I agree.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Well said, Storm. :] Fish

Why is that anytime Anton asks a question he gets it fed to him with a pitchfork? Everybody else asked and they didn't get jumped on. Someone that doesnt know the proper use, has an illegal copy, it's not that great a leap to think that MAYBE the copy of poser is illegal. I was thinking exacly the same thing, then Anton ASKED, it got ANSWERED. Why bite? The discussion has been informative to let people know what can, cannot, and how to do things properly and a lot of talk about community. Dont' go jumpin on someone cause they asked too. Zrincx sorry this happened to ya, sucks. Glad that it got caught quickly and hope that you have sucess whith whatever you decide to do. I'm beginning to see why people stop posting, creating freebies and working in 'the community'. /rant off/

A couple of things:

1. After the textures were identified as Zrincx's, several people posted about removing the textures and reposting just the character as a freebie. That's why I pointed out that the morphs were also made from a commercial item, "Eva" by soccer_coach, so nothing about the character was kosher for distribution. (That and I had to take a moment to fully savor the irony of it, which still has me chuckling.) There were also a set of genital magnets in the character which I didn't examine closely (and probably wouldn't recognize if I did, since I don't own any of those packages) -- if those weren't made by Wishmaster, then there's a third person whose work was also included in this freebie, presumably without permission.

2. The mat files for the "Jenny" character contained references to Zrincx's original textures, in a directory with Zrincx's name on it. The textures themselves don't seem to have been altered at all except to have Zrincx's copyright removed. The morphs from soccer_coach's character were all present in the "Jenny" character completely unaltered, except for an attempt to change the ones named "Eva" to "Jenny" -- not to remove the morphs, mind you, but to change the identifying name. Wishmaster doesn't claim that he also got the Eva character from the "Jap site", so he must have bought it from the Renderosity MP. Even with the copyright notices on the store pages and in the item readme, he thought it was okay to distribute a product that he'd purchased for free? I'm all for giving people second chances, and in fact have advocated pretty strongly for it in some cases, but to accept that both the texture and the morphs were innocent mistakes is straining credibility.

3. Wishmaster still hasn't posted the readme from the file he says he downloaded from this "Jap site". He must have the readme, because he quoted from it a few comments into this thread to say that it okayed "free distribution." So whose name is in this readme? What's the URL to the website where it was downloaded? After all, from what Wishmaster said it looks like someone out there is still offering Zrincx's textures as warez. If Wishmaster is sorry, the best way to show it would be to give Zrincx every bit of info he has on where the file came from so Zrincx can stop the ripoff. I'm also betting that the Japanese Poser community would like to know, since they do not appear to be at all tolerant of pirated items and, in fact, seem to pride themselves on their very considerable skills in making everything from scratch. This represents a slur on their reputation.

Apologies are wonderful, and Wishmaster's seem very sincere and whole-hearted; kudos to him for not just turning tail and running. But there are still some unanswered questions here.

Machineclaw: While I can understand asking if the version of poser is valid: "Lastly is your version of Poser valid? why is there a Metacreatiions tag in your listing? That was so many years ago???" Why then imply that by having a Metacreations tag in the listing is wrong? Hmmm? It may have been many years ago but some of us still have Metacreations in our tags does that make ours not valid? Does it make us look suspicious as well? Just because there is a metacreations tag doesn't mean that it looks suspicious or illegal in anyway shape or form and that is What I am trying to get across.

Last word, basic philosophy on "People who live in glass houses throwing rocks", and "Judgment by default due to community feelings": Let anyone in the community step forward and claim they have not at least once used or d/ld something they knew was an illegal copy. [...and don't forget, if you d/ld your favorite Beatles song from Napster, this counts against you as well.]

Because thewishmaster stated that he was 'new to this' which when I read it implyed that he was probably new to Poser. Anton then ASKED, and thewishmaster ANSWERED. Metacreations is old, and while lots bought it ages ago and have the tag line, a new person would not have that line. Seemed like a completely logical thing to ask. While wrong some people think having illegally downloaded programs that they have gotten are fine too. Often illegal poser programs have illegally gotten items with it, was not the case this time. Like I said, I thought it too, someone beat me to asking and it was a non issue once answered. usually A+B=C, not in this case, but had it not been asked, and answered that would not have been known. Post #29 is not harsh, rude, and I thought was written in a polite way of asking someone for information. Yet the following discussion had teeth with venom.

"Metacreations is old, and while lots bought it ages ago and have the tag line, a new person would not have that line. " WRONG! SOrry but that's wrong. Some people new to poser might have gotten their copy of ebay, or discount software store near them, or got it given to them by a friend, or many other senerio's. Just because they are New doesn't mean they would NOT have that line. And this is not directed at you so please do not take it that way but 90% of people automatically assume WAREZ when confronted by things like this when in all actuality it's not. And out of thoes 75% of people refuse to listen to a person when they claim their innocence. Even when confronted with documented proof. Just because it looks(to collective you) like warez doesn't make it warez.

I was just going to say it could have been gotten from EBay. One of my friends has a copy of Poser that says Metacreations and they purchased it at the start of the year on EBay. Catlin

I thought that was my point. coulda been, looked like it was headin' there, and wasn't. ASKED and ANSWERED done deal. how many times have there been posts asking for serial numbers? happens here all the time so to me anyway it didn't seem like an out of the ordinary thing to ask, I would have asked had Anton not asked, then I would be the jumped on for asking. I guess for me it's just better to sit idly by and not post. I often find myslef re-reading my post and a follow up post and wonder to myself "did they even read what I posted". done.

Someone that doesnt know the proper use, has an illegal copy, it's not that great a leap to think that MAYBE the copy of poser is illegal. It is that great a leap. If you found a hundred dollar bill on the street and put it in your wallet...should everyone assume you got your wallet by stealing it? how many times have there been posts asking for serial numbers? happens here all the time so to me anyway it didn't seem like an out of the ordinary thing to ask... thewishmaster didn't ask for a serial number. The assumption was that since his freebie offering was an infingement...he was a thief and his tools were probably stolen too. He pulled the item as soon as he learned it was stolen, he provided a reasonable explanation, and he apologized umpteen times...that's good enough for me. If he does it again that will be a different story and I'd be hard pressed to believe it was a mistake a second time...but unless he does it again, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If Zrincx or Rendersosity wants additional information from thewishmaster to help track down the source of the files...Zrincx and thewishmaster and Renderosity Staff can work that out between themselves privately, no need for it to be done publicly, and no need for anyone else to be involved...no need to bash thewishmaster...no need to get out the rubber hose and hot lights...no need to plant the stake, pile the kindling, and light the torches. The deal is done...case closed...everyone can move along now...there's nothing to see here... ;^p

I KNOW HE DID NOT ASK FOR A SERIAL NUMBER. oh for the LOVE OF CHRIST! please do NOT scan and post a reply. read what I wrote, and replyed to. I believe that this is resolved by the parties, I believe that thewishmaster has a legal copy of poser. BASH, HAMMER, SLAM, PLONK! this is so damn retarded.

.

Incidentally, I'd just like to point out that it is very easy to know that you got something from a Japanese site and not to know which one. Most of the Japanese Poser sites link to one another, and a westerner with no Japanese and no Japanese browser character support enabled can click through a maze of unintelligible sites, recognising only the download links (which are usually pictorial).

So, can anyone explain the partially renamed Eva to Jenny morphs? Did he download Eva from a Japanse site as well?

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

.

Caly, he may have actually bought Eva and just didn't know that it's not ok to change the name and distribute them. Catlin

Caly,

This is most definitely a group of which the majority wants to see it a particular way, no matter the evidence to the contrary, even to the point of making up explanations the offender can't think of himself.

And I can't tell them what I think of that.

As I have said once I did not know and Im sorry.

Rendergirls

I don't know what people expect. I don't think any apology would be enough...and that's really very sad on many levels. I think, thewishmaster, you should resist the temptation to read any more of this thread. Learn from the experience and move on. You now know to be more careful with what you download, whether or not it is free. There are textures for sale that are meant for people to use as a base for their own textures...I'd suggest you save up your pennies and get one of those, acknowledge the source material, and go back to doing someting creative with your time. It's really not going to be productive to continue reading this thread. People will believe what they want to believe. You can't change anyone's mind, and I wouldn't try. I have and it's never worked. Really, time to move on. There's a little box down below the message box that says: Notify: Email me when someone replies. This would be a good time to uncheck it. Really.

Amen to that dialyn :)

Dialyn,

What do people expect?

I expect him to say, "I wanted to give away some neat free stuff, but I didn't know how to make it myself or I didn't have the tools. So, I cheated. I won't do it again."

People are claiming his mistake was lack of knowledge. I believe his mistake was expecting to not get caught. I can forgive either, but only if the apology is honest.

and how can you tell if it is honest Migal. I can say the same thing.. I wanted to give away some neat free stuff, but I didn't know how to make it myself or I didn't have the tools. So, I cheated. I won't do it again. Does it make it true? or honest? He has said time and time again he is sorry. He apologized 9 or is it 10 times now? And you still don't buy it. thewishmaster I agree with Dialyn.. ignore this thread and begin again

Yes, the statement would be true and honest.

The renaming of the morphs proves intent to mislead and refutes lack of knowledge.

He hasn't said anything to make me believe he knows exactly what it is he did wrong. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the wide number of explanations hes seen for his own actions confused him.

Were I a silent newbie to these forums, I would think nothing of doing exactly what he did, because I'd be secure in the knowledge that I would be defended by a large component of renderosity who seem to believe that this sort of behavior is something other than warez. Or, perhaps they simply tolerate warez.

"Were I a silent newbie to these forums, I would think nothing of doing exactly what he did, because I'd be secure in the knowledge that I would be defended by a large component of renderosity who seem to believe that this sort of behavior is something other than warez. Or, perhaps they simply tolerate warez." Dirty pool and low blow Migal. NO I do NOT tolerate Warez, and your making that statement is so utterly rediculous it really doesn't deserve a comment. You can assume what you wish, but frankly you know what they say when you assume something. If I was to assume anything about you it would be that you don't give a shit how many times someone apologizes it has to be done your way or by all the gods above they can never be forgiven. I think maybe you need to read this whole thread again. But do me a favor and take a look at the screenshot he posted. He's from a different country give him some slack here. SOme people deserve a second chance and a chance to change. Tough if you don't like it. When you make a mistake I will be the first to point you back to this thread and say well how can we forgive you, after all You can't forgive anything else. I am done with this thread. no reason to listen to any more garbage about what some people assume just because you dare open your mouth, and how you are a theif just because you make a mistake AND APOLOGIZE 10 TIMES FOR IT! Sheesh!

thewishmaster "Im sorry Fish I did not know that It had a copyright as I downloaded it copyright free I have deleted the texture from my hd"

thewishmaster "Well that is a lesson I have lerand I did realye think that it was ok to use this tex ore I would never have used it... "

thewishmaster "As I have said once I did not know and Im sorry."

The above statements and the 8 plus apologies made by thewishmaster show that his mistake was lack of knowledge, there is no reason...besides cynicism...to believe otherwise. There have been many newbies that used morphs to create new characters not realizing that it was not "kosher" to do so.

Expecting him to say something that he says is not true to satisfy someone's cynicism seems a bit irrational and jaded. If honesty is what is wanted...then you must accept his explanation as honest until you have some solid evidence to prove otherwise.

Nothing more can really be said. Those that choose to see evil will find it whenever and where ever they look. My vote is for Lyrra to lock this thread before it get's out of hand.

I was starting to enjoy coming to this forum on a regular basis, but the attitude of many of those who have responded to this thread leaves a lot to be desired. Do you all want blood, or is it just that you've found someone to take out your years of anger and hatred on. Personally I think many of you should go look in the mirror and have a search for who is really looking back at you. Either that or just grow up. I'm sorry to say it but I find I am most disgusted with this kangaroo court and all that that represents. Catlin

To quote dialyn: "People will believe what they want to believe." Around here, some will attack you no matter what you do. No matter how many times you apologize. Ceaseless arguement is a "poser community" pastime. We are out for blood. Nothing less will satisfy. Keep building characters, thewishmaster. Just make certain that the figure is 100% yours, or else, used with permission. Peace.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

P.S. - You would do well to have that permission given to you in writing, signed, notarized, witnessed, and attested to by five lawyers.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Illusions, yes, newbies commonly make morphs from other people's morphs. That is not what happened here. He simply renamed the dials and left the morph data unchanged.

Stormrage, you of all people should know better. That texture is brokered at DAZ. I am assuming nothing. Your wish that I assume something will not magically make an assumption materialize. Warez is the free distribution of proprietary computer data. And Stormrage, rest assured. You will not get the opportunity to berate me for such a thing, because I will never do it, nor have I ever done it, nor will I condone it.

Your point that English is probably not his native language is a good one. I must consider the probability that he may be having difficulty expressing his thoughts to us. As such, I will explain to him in detail what it is he did that was wrong.

Wishmaster, when you renamed those dials, then offered the product in the Free Stuff section, it was the exact equivalent of distributing a copy of "The Lord of the Rings" DVD on the Internet, with the title and characters named differently. This is a form of warez and it is not all right to do. Perhaps you did download the texture from a Japanese warez site, and if you did it would certainly benefit us to know that URL. But, you have to be able to see how some of us could doubt that story about the texture, considering what you did with the morphs.

There is a simple and safe rule: If you didn't create it, don't distribute it without the permission of the creator. If you did not know this, you do now, and I look forward to seeing your energy directed toward your own creations in the future. If you need to know how to make your own morphs, pose files, injection files or textures, I will gladly teach you.

"Illusions, yes, newbies commonly make morphs from other people's morphs. That is not what happened here. He simply renamed the dials and left the morph data unchanged."

That's not what I said or suggested. I said people have made characters using other peoples morphs...they have also used morphs from other characters or even existing characters entirely. It's a common mistake among newbies, and was a mistake some who went on to become "poser gods" also made at one time or another as well.

"I will explain to him in detail what it is he did that was wrong.

Several others beat you to that in prior posts.

"...it was the exact equivalent of... blah...blah...blah... This is a form of warez and it is not all right to do.

Already explained, although the LOR analogy was not a part of that explanation.

"Perhaps you did download the texture from a Japanese warez site, and if you did it would certainly benefit us to know that URL."

It wouldn't benefit any of us...it would benefit Zrincx since he holds the copyright on the texture and is the only one that can file a formal complaint about it...something that could better be handled between Zrincx and thewishmaster via IM or email.

"If you didn't create it, don't distribute it without the permission of the creator."

Already pointed out by Anton...see post #27.

Feel better now that you've had your chance to chide thewishmaster and tell him everything many other people have already told him? :^P

Illusions, if a site is distributing warez Poser products, they are likely to be distributing more than one. That is why it would benefit us and not just Zrincx.

Per advice, I've read the thread again. I'll summarize:

WM: Get my free thing.

Forum: Err... That's Zrincx's texture you're distributing.

WM: It is? Woops. I got it from a Jap site. I'll take down the freebie and post the URL to the Jap site.

Forum: Err... That freebie included somebody else's morph, renamed to look like an original.

WM: I'll post a link to that Jap site.

Forum: Err... The morph?

WM: I'm sorry.

Forum: For crissakes! Leave the guy alone! He said he was sorry!

WM: Here's a screen cap that proves I purchased the morph here at renderosity.

Forum: If you thought it was okay to distribute the morph you purchased, why did you feel the need to rename it?

WM: I'm sorry.

Forum: Geezus! Leave him alone you pious nazi! He said he was sorry! Enough already!

Forum: Jap site 24 hours later?

Forum: Meanie! How dare you use the word "warez" to describe warez! This isn't real warez! Renderosity would ban somebody for warez. In order for warez to be real warez at renderosity, it must present a serious risk of getting them sued. This won't get them sued, so it isn't really warez.

Nothing is going to change the fact that I've spent the last couple days watching a bunch of renderosity members defend a warez post in any way they can.

No, I don't want to see the guy get banned. Not at all. I think we should teach him how to do what it is he wants to do. However, this is a perpetual problem at renderosity and I'd like to see it stop. Treating some warez as if it were different from other warez does nothing to help.

Just watching the Discovery Channel. About Tuthmosis and his dream of the Sphinx. Fascinating stuff.

"Nothing is going to change the fact that I've spent the last couple days watching a bunch of renderosity members defend a warez post in any way they can."

No one, I repeat, NO ONE is defending warez!

We are, however, defending an INDIVIDUAL. An individual who did what he did in ignorance. And, then, after revealing his ignorance, some others cannot let this terrible criminal go with a simple admonishment. No, apologies aren't enough. He MUST be punished first. For making a newbie mistake.

If you are incapable of grasping the subtle shades of meaning here, then I leave it to you......

His wrongs have been explained to him. In excruciating detail. Further verbal jibes are mere piling on.

Your offers of help are....interesting. Like slapping someone's face, yelling at them, and then offering to straighten out their tie for them. Interesting.

The Sphinx....a fascinating subject.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Have a care with who you claim is defending warez! Most of us see a member that made an error, the first and only time he's done that here thus far. If it happens again we will expect to see the site ban him. You seem to be the only one that wants to paint him a criminal. He has been told what he did was wrong, he has acknowledged that and apologized for it. Why do you want to continue to belabor the point... If you are incapable of distinquishing fact from fancy...or just have a desire to twist the facts to match your cynicism...further discussion with you is useless. Say whatever you want...unless XENOPHONZ wants to continue sparing with you, you can talk to yourself.

I'm outta here, too. Off to other jousts.....

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Illusions,

Im incapable of taking you seriously. You argue for the sake of arguing, no matter the number of heart attacks.

Xenophonz,

If I criticize, I'm not allowed to offer assistance?

I don't think any of you are intentionally condoning warez. I think you have trouble recognizing that it is warez, due in part to renderosity's double standard.

Okay. I am declaring this horse officially dead It is this Moderaators decision to give this guy one more chances. This incident has been noted in his record. If further incidents happen, stronger measures will be taken. If he does nothing else wrong, we will not have lost a possible member because of a stupid newbie mistake. Meanwhile, why don't you guys stop doing my job and go do something constructive. Lyrra the Cranky