Attached Link: http://library.rendervisions.com/renderositymessage.html

I have been a Member of renderosity for a very long time, Almost since it opened! rendervisions.com finally made it to the 2nd place on the webring after being there for a few years! Before it was rendervisions.com it was named poserosity.com. the name was changed to rendervisions.com in the webring as well. Just today I recieved a very accusing message at renderosity it can be read here: http://library.rendervisions.com/renderositymessage.html I have never ever been so disgusted in my whole life! All I have done in 3D i have done for renderosity! All my free items go through renderosity! I have given members here free webspace through our servers FREE for Renderosity!

I am completely disgusted by the message to me. I am not one to stirr up trouble but this is horrendous! Rendervisions.com has worked hard to get where we are today a fast growing art community that has just put up its own Marketplace. Is this the true reason we were wiped off of the webring?

Please know I love it here! I have allways tried to do whatever I can for this community. I have given my heart and soul into my 3D work and grown here.

I dont say much But I am going to speak up when I have been accused of something like that!

Thank you for listening
Much Love
Lady Cherry

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I wish I could say I'm suprised.. But I'm not suprised. When people are treated as doing something wrong because they do TOO well, there's a problem.

Personally, I don't find it surprising. Do I think you did anything wrong? No. Lately rendervisions has been having alot of people dropping around because its a new community that has promise. I know I've recommended several people there.

Totally absurd!! Does Renderosity actually believe that no site can do well? Or rather a few people within the upper ranks.... I still like Renderosity, but this kind of thing is going too far....even if they are simply trying to keep people from buying there.

Rendervisions is an excellent community. And Renderosity shouldent be afraid of some HONEST competition, LC Deserves better then that, she should be getting a trophy for the work shes put into Rendervisions not a backstab.

Sorry, I meant that r'visions has had alot of dropping by.

Lady C, I have the highest respect for your work and I know you've contributed a huge amount of stuff to the poser community over the years. It's very sad that you should be accused of something like this, especially since you known to be one of the more honest members of the poser communities. I notice that no shred of proof is offered for this accusation, nor is there anything in the mail that you could pin down as being a fact. It all seems to be based on very dodgy deductions. Sherlock Holmes would NOT approve. mac

mac, is this the first time they've made decisions on a hunch and no evidence? no

hummm- another new store- another new place for ppl to go

I am not surprised either. It seems to me that Renderosity is not able to handle the amount of "growth" it is experiencing. It is using the "cut" cost approach to increase its profit margin. Anything deemed costly for them it tries to weed out. I've been following this "trend" since August of this year, and I believe it is still on going. I read more and more disturbing threads every so often about Renderosity's mistreatment to its members; some of them had contributed greatly to this community. It saddens me that this community has turned into a business environment rather than one that's for learning and sharing. I've gradually moved my buying habits to other sites, whom offer their merchants a better cut, in support of the artists who's spent their talents and time on their products/artworks. I feel for you, Lady Cherry. Business is not a personal thing, it is just business. In time, if enough customers feel it is unethical. The injustice done will take care of itself. JV

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Software: Daz Studio 4.15,  Photoshop CC, Zbrush 2022, Blender 3.3, Silo 2.3, Filter Forge 4. Marvelous Designer 7

Hardware: self built Intel Core i7 8086K, 64GB RAM,  RTX 3090 .

"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

"A critic is a legless man who teaches running." ~ Channing Pollock

My Gallery  My Other Gallery 

Lady Cherry... disgusting is right! and that might be an understatement. What a shame that people such as you who really helped build this site by your contributions and participation over the years should receive such shabby treatment. I hope it is all a horrible misunderstanding and that it will be remedied. Your site is great, and I wish you the best success possible.

well maybe they just did not catch the fact your site existed under its old name and so, earned all the members from its previous "existance" :) many people have hard time swalowing the concept of reincarnation :) well when i see the traffi i had on my dumb worthless website for the first 2 months (before the stats system of my host went mad and not deliver accurate stats anymore) i was frigthened at the amoutn of hits (a pointless number) and the bandwith traffic (more relevant)... 8 gb in 2 months it is insane, i even am glad my host did not dump me for that :) so i have no difficulty understanding how/why your own site went so popular indeed

This is sad lady cherry. I hope everything gets worked out.

Insanity is a waking state...Darkness is a being...Want To Play.........heheheheh

Maybe people just started doing what I did...R'City was so slow for 2 or 3 weeks (or so), so I spent my time at other places (like Rendervisions...where I bought that luscious cutie and downloaded a lot of freebies!) Hang in there young Lady (Cherry)!

This is a shame really - a shame for Renderosity. It seems they don't care for their good name anymore. I hope someone will read this and straighten things out. Nitras

Well, I don't know how adept their server admins are, but it's pretty damn easy to check for cheaters to a toplist or webring. They're called server logs. I bet if they check their logs, and the referring IP's that are coming from your site, they'll see no foul play. Cheaters to webrings and toplists usually use Anonymous Proxy bots to fake hits to a site. Anonymous Proxies are EASILY detectable, and can be compared to a list of known bot proxies to get a definitive answer about cheating. Also, it's pretty easy to get a programmer to add a few lines of code to any script that would make it virtually cheat proof. It's not hard to deny hits from the same IP in a 24 hour period, or to simply bock hits from anon proxy IP's and not count them in the toplist. I'm surprised this is even a concern with 'Rosity, considering how long they've been in the e-commerce biz.

I would be interested in the proof also LC.

Funny YouTube video of the week - Bu De Bu Ai

Saddened, but unfortunately not shocked.

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

Sounds pretty lame to me .. unfortunately its the same all over the world. You do well, and they knock you down. All people want is for you to be "average" and along the same lines as everyone else. If your product is great and people keep coming back for more, they see that as a threat in some weird way and retaliate against it. Lame, but not very surprising.

watches silently

Ack! looks nervously over should 'cause I know how the 'overworked' can be sometimes (wink)

errrr.... "shouldER". (ugh!)

Well as a member of Lady C's site I am so pissed that renderosity offers no proof of their accusations. Funny but I thought that in this country you are suppose to be proven guilty by a preponderance of evidence. I can say this much that in support for Lady C I will no longer purchase Items from them. If I do find something I like I will contact the creater directly and hope something can be worked out. Shame on you Rosity and remember this what goes around always comes around.

LOLOL! I'm sorry, but I just have to be amused by this. Now I'm working on the assumption that this is plain old-fashioned incompetence rather than a conspiracy, and frankly, that makes it hilarious. Why? Lady Cherry was already an established column of the community when I joined several years ago! Combine that with the " We have extensive experience in the amount of time it takes for a site to move up to the number two spot" statement, and we have a Kati-chan ROTFL'ing. What can I say? I'm easily amused.

I just keep wondering if Renderosity is on a mission to piss off and alienate as many members as possible... It WILL cut down on site traffic, though. bonni (no longer at ALL surprised about ANYthing they do here)

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Very interesting... I really don't know what to think other than someone may have utterly misinterpreted or misunderstood Lady Cherry's / Rendervision's legitimate stats. She and her site - from its birth as Poserosity to its metamorphosis into Rendervisions has proven longevity and presence on the web. She's come a long way for herself and her site and had to endure setbacks not of her creating. Not to mention she's a very generous and all around nice lady.

I know for a FACT that this isn't the first time an RO representative (employee/volunteer) has acted beyond the bounds of legal interpretation or full & proper knowledge of all pertaining facts. I'm hoping that this will come to light, that her webrings stats can be returned to her, and that a huge apology is given.

I hope Lyrra or others here can forward this thread to those in charge before it gets out of hand. I'm also surprised at the direct and seemingly-unsubstantiated claim that Lady Cherry received, but I just don't believe that there's any great conspiracy behind Renderosity's actions. Let's hear their reasoning behind this before everyone starts packing their bags. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

~just blinks and waits to read more shaking her head~

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

This thread has been brought to the Admins attention. They are looking into it. I'll let you all know as much as I can as soon as I get any information Lyrra

I must say this has peaked my interest. Hopefully it is all a mistake, that somehow it was missed that the site had a name change. I went over and had a look see, alot of what is offered there, I have seen go through here. It would be a sin to think that this would not get worked out and put right. Just my two cents....

Lady C, Just joined up over at Rendervisions to show my support for your contribution to the 3D and Poser community :) For one, I'm glad there are alternatives.

.

ditto, lady c. i've just joined, too.

Good - another Poser site...just joined up

Lady C - I've joined but I'm err... getting lots of errors trying to do anything... (for instance, entering the forum I get... Warning: Cannot add header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rendervisions/web/header.php:32) in /home/rendervisions/web/includes/sessions.php on line 251) Might just be a temporary glitch :) As for the rest of all this... It's silly. I love the people round here and I would hate to lose this community, but I'm starting to care less and less for what goes on. I'm a customer darnit. I buy stuff. Ok, what I buy may only be pocketchange, but... I'm starting to get fed up with the stuff I keep seeing and I've come here for years, if you want to check my User ID. It's been around for god only knows how long. I'd say 4 years or more at least. It's only been in the last 6 or so months that things have started to rapidly go downhill (or maybe I just didn't notice) What gives???

Silke

Rendervisions? hadn't heard of that one, looks like I'll be wandering over for a peek shortly too ;)

Sounds to me like a classic case of shooting first and asking questions later.

Hmm... I just registered in Rendervisions as well :)

... and bookmarked Rendervisions as well :) Seems like a good publicity stunt to me :) Only joking, in truth I'm appalled by the email rosity admins sent to LC.

Wow... Renderosity is censoring something... now that's suprising... (Did you catch the rolling of the eyes and sarcastic tone of voice) While I love the community and thank everyone here for their help, the admins here have the trigger finger of Billy the Kid. That's the problem with having no accountability.... you can pretty much do whatever you want and not worry about. If I treated the users at my company even a fraction of the way some of the admins treat people here... I'd be fired in a heartbeat. Why? Accountability. I'm held responsible for my mistakes. Are they here? Nope. I guess that's why it's good to be a god... you don't have to answer to anyone.... and you can blame everything on the devil.

Hi Lady C, I am very sorry to hear of this action and am on my way to visit your site. It sounds wonderful! Warm Regards, Nancy Deer With Horns (SophiaDeer)

Nancy Deer With Horns
Deer With Horns Native American Indian Site

Oh get over it it's not worth it, us little monkeys are at the bottom of the tree your pissing from!

DarkMatter_ Spoken like a true noob.

Absolutly horendous!!!!! shakes head....I didn't know about this site either....now that I'm registered :). Another place to shop....WHOOOOHOOOOO.

"If I treated the users at my company even a fraction of the way some of the admins treat people here... I'd be fired in a heartbeat. Why? Accountability. I'm held responsible for my mistakes. Are they here? Nope." And nobody really cares. They bitch about it for a little while and then forget all about it. The only time people REALLY care is if it's affecting them, personally, in a profound way. Little pokes and prods, especially if they happen to someone else, can be blown off pretty easily... bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Not true Elizabyte... I remember when there was just one main Poser community site... but they did some things that pissed people off and there was a split... some people went one way... some people went another... You've only been at Renderosity for a little over a year... us old timers remember a very big split in the Poser community that happened because people in charge didn't listen to the people of the community enough. It's still somewhat like the Hatfields and the McCoys with some members of Renderosity and 3DCommune. However, the nice thing that came out of it was that there ARE now two main poser community sites...

I count more than that....and none of them are perfect, because they are all run by falliable people. I visit at least four of what I consider vibrant communities; a fifth I don't because I made a mistake and the owner, instead of being gracious, decided she wanted me to grovel at her feet for my sins. Sorry, no grovelling. And no shopping there. But people have plenty of choices, and I find all I need and want at the others I visit. And that's true of all of us. I honestly think, and this represents my viewpoint only, that Renderosity as an entity is going through some changes and changes are never problem free. I hope this one is resolved because I do think Lady Cherry has a point....but I also think a better, more descriptive subject heading and posting in the Forum News and Team Contact would have had more potential for getting a response from the adminsitrators. Fortunately Lyrra has taken care of bringing it their attention, and I hope, I really do, that this can be resolved civilly. I can hope. Because I don't think name calling gets us anywhere.

Dialyn... I say two main Poser communities because these two sprung from the original "main" poser community. There are definatley more, although some are more specialized, like Renderotica (erotica)and Animotions (comics). Still, I doubt with as many regular members as 3DCommune and Renderosity.

Actually I think you're both wrong ookami & dialyn, Renderosity is not a community nor is any other site that anyone cares to mention. The poser community is the people who visit the sites & who use poser. The people running rosity need a reality check once in a while, rosity is not the entire universe when it comes to poser, never has been & never will be.

Good point c1rcle... The community is the people... Renderosity and 3DCommune and the others are just places to meet.

As a matter of fact, I've had an account here since 2000. I was offline and away from the communities for a little over a year when I was pregnant (difficult pregnancy) and when I came back here, my membership had expired, so I had to renew it (and that's where the visible date comes from) If you could see my purchase history, you'd see it goes back to 2000. My purchase history at 3D Commune also goes back to 2000. My purchase history with DAZ goes back to before they were DAZ (i.e., the Zygote days). My point was that the majority of users here don't seem to care much what goes on. They come, they shop, they may drop in on the forums (or not; I didn't use the forums until pretty recently), they don't care much about the behind-the-scenes activities and politics. Certainly not enough to actually do much about it (other than bitch a little bit). Basically, the admins can do pretty much whatever they want, without accountability. Now and then, yes, small groups break off and form new sites/stores, but still, Renderosity trundles on doing the same old same old. That's basic human nature, though. I don't expect any more or less from human beings than to be human. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Sad, but not exactly surprising. You can always count on Renderosity for entertainment.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

Thank you all for your support!
I have been around a long time here at renderosity. since all of the splits before they had a marketplace and everything! I have been a member of thier webring for some time. Our site has grown immensly and I still come here to see everyones artwork and post my own free stuff as much as possible.
If any of you know me you would know that I would NEVER ever do anything cheating or hacking or whatever to get to 2nd on the webring. I have allways offered everything I have to renderosity and I am glad that those of you that have commented have seen that.

I do hope this is a Large misunderstanding because I am completely disgusted and hurt by this message sent to me.
As some of you know i sat in tears last night after I read it because I felt as though It was a direct stab.
I did not know how else to express these feelings other than to post this message on the boards.

Thank you to all that have read this and commented. I appreciate all your support and kind words.

Much Love
-Lady Cherry

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Shakes my head. I really wish admins correct this issue and place the Rendervisions back to the place where it was in Web Ring.

"I like my species the way it is."

My dictionary says a community "...is a a group of people living in the same locality and under the same government. The district or locality in which such a group lives. OR A group of people having common interests: the scientific community; the international business community. A group viewed as forming a distinct segment of society: the gay community; the community of color. The fact that we all visit (or virtually "live" on) the same site and abide (more or less) by the rules of that site, makes us a community of sorts. We don't all have common interests, beyond all using Poser. The site seems to me to be more of a commonality than the product we use. I have very little in common with the graphic artists who use Poser purely for pinups or fantasy, for example, but I still have in common with them that we post in the same gallery. But that's a personal opinion. And I respect the fact we will not agree on this one.

I'm on Renderosity a lot. Not quite my home page, but that's only because I like to follow the news. I've been watching it for the past few months as it struggles to come to grips with it's own growth. Lately, it seems, if something can go wrong here it will. First, the vendor percentage dispute and some good stores being pulled, then the decline in quality in the MP (still some very good stuff, but not as much as there used to be), the hardware/software issues that seem to have slowed the 'sity down, and taken it offline. Banning some major contributers. Cutting down the number of uploads (although I do agree with that). Now removing a respectable site from the webring because it's grown too much, without consulting the site's owner beforehand. It seems like the 'sity is shooting itself in the foot. More and more of my friends seem to have stopped posting, or post very infrequently. The more things like this happen, the less likely vendors will broker here or post free stuff. The fewer vendors with quality items, the less business here. The less business, the more cutbacks and forum traffic. It's true that most people don't really care about the internal politics here, but they are affected when the people who do, who also produce products and freestuff, go somewhere else. Not a good picture. I hope that the 'sity soon reevaluates this specific problem. It may be that one mod was having a bad day, or just didn't recognize the site. ...sigh...

I personally don't think you have done anything you shouldn't have done (that's not worth much, I know, but I haven't believed that for a moment). I really hope this is resolved soon. Take care.

I've only been Pose-ing for about 6 months. With all of the sites for Poser stuff somehow I had not found Rendervisions.... until now. One of the first things I saw there is exactly what I need for a scene. It may be here but I found it there first. 1 more new Rendervisions member...

Lady Cherry, I know it isn't obvious from Lyrra's post, but she is trying to find out what's going on in the back room. I don't have any more information than she does right now, but I don't want you to feel like your (well deserved) concern was being ignored. I hadn't chimed in until now because I was hoping there would be an answer for you this morning. Unfortunately, I haven't seen one yet, but I don't want you to think a lack of answer is a lack of caring. I don't know when Asher is usually available here - I'm trusting that he hasn't seen this thread nor Lyrra's question in the back yet. I'm very sorry that this happened, but I do ask that you give us a little more time to find out what's going on. Thanks, Cres

Renderosity did not remove the link to Rendervisions to stifle competition. We believe Renderosity is just a part of a larger 2D/3D community, and we have a web ring to help promote other sites that share our interest in computer generated art. Our web ring has 3 factors: members referred in 30 days, members referred for all time, and all time visits. These factors are weighted to calculate a sites position in our web ring. Based on many years of statistics, we know there is a ratio to visits with the ones that become members. This ratio does not vary much. In this case, we can see that the ratio for visits versus their referrals that actually join are extremely different than all the other sites participating in our web ring. Since there were questions about how the amount of visits accelerated so quickly in a short amount of time, we felt it is only fair to other sites in our web ring to re-set the Rendervision statistics. Since we do not have a way to just reset a sites statistics to zero, we had to remove and have the site re-join the web ring. The site is already back in the web ring and we will watching for any possible issues, so we can address concerns quickly. Below is part of our web ring Terms & Conditions. "People found trying to abuse the Web Ring in any way, or creating fraudulent accounts to boost their ranking, will be deleted from the Web Ring and possibly banned from the community. We reserve the right to pull any link at any time." thanks, --Asher Renderosity Admin

This is absolutly rediculous. Considering I also did not recieve a message from you privatly either I find it completely unprofessional. And still you continue to accuse. You did not ask or mention to notice the amount of hits our site has. This is an obvious factor! Also before our site was rendervisions you would have also noticed it was poserosity. Recieveing many many hits. Because people did not sign up to your site and hit your site through Ours does not mean anything. Unbelieveable! Still I am accused or Doing a Fraudulent act is that what you are saying? I hope not! This may be the last time you see any free things or help from me if this is the case. If I am going to be treated this way from an admin. Appauling! -Lady Cherry

The Art Door and Rendervisions Community.
For Artists By Artists

I do appreciate you responding to this thread and private messaging me now I did not see the message before I posted this. I am still very upset with due reason! -Lady Cherry

The Art Door and Rendervisions Community.
For Artists By Artists

if you wish asher How about this: We will give you our logs brokejn up hourly weekly monthy since we keep track of every day every user and every action! Then you tell me that the hits through our site is not justified!! We are a high traffic site that people from OTHER communities go through as well. I hope you realized you have made a mistake. if you want that info I can post it here. Thousands and thousands of hits a day each obe accounted for. All logged please let me know whaen you want this information!

The Art Door and Rendervisions Community.
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~furrows her brows~ so you -are- accusing her of hacking to gain a percentage raise in her members? what proof do you have of that? other then a -hunch-? personally I have three sites. and I know that dureing certain times of the year they fluctuate widely. during the summer months when most youths are out of school one site has a tremendouse overflow of visitors and people joining...I have a whole group of poeple that join and never post to the members area. that does not mean that it is hacked. the other site doesnt do well till the holidays{gods knows why} and again the same thing..a flood then an ebb. I find this{renderosities answer} to be....{specially after the answer Asher has provided} to be very unfair. It is still being stated that there seems to be an accusation of hacking or unfair practices by lady cherry to gain her status on the ring. If this is renderosity or what it is turning into...no wonder more people are leaving it for her site or other sites. also do you think this action will make it easier for people to join your web ring? or make the others more comfortable? I wonder how many others on the ring are now waiting for a hachet to fall on their necks if they get to may visitors. sorry. if this is renderosities answer...you will be loosing alot of members...ALOT and alot of BUYERS> that is something to think about if you are having trouble already. you shouldnt be alienating members.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Can I ask a direct question of the mods? Is Renderosity accusing Lady Cherry of falsifying data to boost her position in the webring? A simple yes or no will suffice, then we can take the discussion further, or not, instead of prevaricating.

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

I dont see why it'd take traffic away. I know that most people go to all the websites, not just one. As far as Asher's answer, it really didn't answer why. Basically all he said was the normal reasons for removing someone, but never any specifics on this particular case. Also, giving such a generic statement almost makes him seem worse because he appears to not want to admit guilt.

if the point of it all is that people didnt come here from there...sorry it just doesnt always work that way. I have never gone to a site via the web ring on the side bar. I google or I get a link from a thread. so to base it on if people are coming HERE from THERE is ...ludicrouse. sorry if this is what renderosity is about or is becomeing... it is not worth it. I wonder if I can cancel my purchase that is pending....

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Just registering my presence and interest in this thread. Seems so far to be a case of 'we think you're guilty, therefore we'll act as though you are without giving you a chance to show that you're not'. Not very fair, IMHO - at least give the accused a chance to defend themselves before carrying out the sentence! If things had been handled that way, then we probably wouldn't be seeing this increasingly long thread... which is (yet again) damaging the image of Renderosity. And don't get me wrong, I like this place, and much of the time I sympathise with the mods and admins, who are forever facing moans and groans, no matter what they do. Does Renderosity actually employ someone who is responsible for PR - or customer relations? If not, perhaps they should - so many of these controversies could be avoided with a little more thought before action. It's not what you do, it's the way that you're seen to do it!

OMG Cherry, you had too many people getting referred to and from your site! It's OBVIOUS that you must be trying some sort of scam that involves taking over the world or something! TOO MANY CLICKS = FRAUD! It's all so SIMPLE now! Sarcasm is wonderful sometimes. Seriously tho, this is pathetic.

I wonder sometimes if some of the mods{not all} realise that if a thread starts here.....it DOES spread to other sites...to newbies that are just geting started and to those that are looking for new sites. a thread like this...with this type of action from renderosity...is damaging ..period. if I was new...no way would I come here after hearing something like this about the site. Imagine how many -are- hearing of this that are not members but would of been either potential members or potential buyers. as for the hacking rigging what ever the accusation is. this is a dead horse in renderosity from what I have seen and been told...how many contests have had the same accusations ABOUT renderosity? but they didnt feel the need to start the contest over. so then why when they -THINK- someone my of done something on those lines they just cut them off? I have even heard and been told how contests are rigged due to people spaming off site to get votes. that votes have been taken on contests by members that just joined specifically to vote fo their friend. that sounds just like what you are accusing lady cherry of doing but I am sure you didnt bann the member or even start the contest over. This is just flat out...wrong. ~ring ring......"hello?" "yes this is pot, is this kettle?" "yes?" "well kettle your black"~

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Oh well, I'll bite - what's the significance to Renderosity of the web ring and being on it/at the top? I'm a bit puzzled about the issue at stake :( (plus I'm pretty much dumb as a rock, as if that needed mentioning.)

Has ANYONE bothered to think..... that maybe, JUST maybe, Asher HAS the stats for the in & out hits ? That JUST maybe, it IS valid for the actions he took ? Anything ANYONE does, will NOT please everyone, someone is gonna get pissed, whether the action taken is RIGHT or WRONG. Thomas

Smitty, If he did, wouldn't he have shown them? If he would show evidence, I'm sure this whole thing would have died down before it started.

Maybe those stats are NOT for public viewing ? IE: Classified. I mean really, think about it ... what threat is rendervisions to Rosity ? Thomas

smitthms - That's why I'd like to know, from a mod, if Lady Cherry is actually being accused of falsifying data, yes or no.

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

Lyrra and I have both asked for more clarification on what's going on. Again, we don't have any more information on this than anyone else in this thread (excluding Asher, obviously.) I'm hoping Asher will come back in with more information, but if I find anything else out in the meantime, I'll be sure to post. Thanks, Cres (whose really bad week is rapidly getting worse)

Personally, I never realized that RO had some kind of webring popularity ranking - I figured it was a general shuffle of all sites in the ring - rather like the banners - that would make sense to me so that all ring members get somewhat even exposure.

99.99999% of the time I don't even use the ring to find sites - there are enough links within the forums to other sites that I don't need to peruse the ring.

I do know that w/some of the recent MP changes that RV had gained merchants that left RO - would make sense that there would be non-merchants that followed that same path or expanded their Poser site(s) favorites. I can't even remember how many freakin Poser communities I'm a member of - more than 6 for sure.

I dunno. I have no need or desire to know all the details myself, just the hope that Lady Cherry is given her fair shake and they will be given to her personally. She has offered up her site stats for comparison to RO's stats - all we can hope for is that RO might realize that a more in-depth investigation is a worthy pursuit in terms of their PR and partnership of 'other sites that share our interest in computer generated art.'

Lady Cherry, I'm not exactly sure why you're wanting to discuss this in a public forum, and why you're publicly posting my private communications to you. This is really an issue best handled via email or IM between you and I. That said, I will explain for a final time as far as I feel I can or should in a public space: First of all, Lady Cherry and Rendervisions is already back in the Web Ring, as we would like to give her the benefit of the doubt. That was even before I had seen this thread this morning; in my original message (as we all know) I invited her to rejoin. But the numbers on her site's rise to the #2 spot in the Web Ring (over a matter of a few weeks) were much, much different from every other site in the Top 15. Not to mention that those other top sites had been a part of the Web Ring for at the very least a year, and in most cases much longer. Rendervisions joined the Web Ring in Feb 03. One's standing in our Web Ring is based on 3 factors, each assigned a different 'weight'. The higher one's total weight, the higher in the Web Ring she'll appear. I'm not going to share those numbers with everyone here. Though her numbers were significantly, obviously, and oddly out-of-line with every other site in the Top 15, not to mention on down the list. Most of the skewed activity was recent, reflecting the meteoric rise to the top. Is it possible for those numbers to be arrived at legitimately? Of course...Is it likely?...Not very. Her site is not the only one that's been in the Web Ring for a long time, yet it's the only one to skyrocket to the top in just a matter of weeks. We believe they manipulated their web ring position. But, we also wanted to give them a chance to start over -- instead of just booting them altogether. Hope that helps clear it up. thanks, --Asher Renderosity Admin

.

I could agree with the diplomatic way of handling this problem on a personal admin-injured basis...except, this is an ongoing thing over here recently. Renderosity is becoming a synonym of Witch Hunt or Inquisition. Gallery postings killed, censorship of some sort or other, etc., and these are things that the membership needs to be aware of and informed of on a continuing basis. If there was not a serious problem here there would not be as many prolific merchants pulling their wares, and not as many longstanding members coming forth with complaints, or going elsewhere to fulfil their artistic needs. I am not sure if the problems are lack of communication among the admins, or admin interpreting the TOS each in his own way. But whatever the reasons...the natives are getting restless.

Was that a yes, or a no?

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

Neither

"We believe they manipulated their web ring position." That means yes, they're accusing her of fraud.

And on what is shown to be very, very scanty evidence.

'We believe they manipulated their web ring position.' That statement is an oblique accusation of fraud. In other words they can't actually prove it, but they have strong suspicions. 'Is it possible for those numbers to be arrived at legitimately? Of course...Is it likely?...Not very' This second statement does not contain proof of fraud. It only repeats that they BELIEVE there was fraud. Presumably, this belief comes from viewing the numbers. But, if you want to put it another way, what it means is that they can't believe that a site could become so popular, so quickly. So, the question at the end of the day is this. Does Renderosity have the right to act in cases where they BELIEVE that something fraudulent has taked place? And I suppose the answer would be 'Yes, they do'. It's their site, their TOS, so it's up to them to enforce standards when they think there's been jigger-pokery. BUT.... in my opinion, they might have done themselves a favor by consulting with Lady Cherry first to see if she could clarify the sudden increase in numbers, before getting out the hatchets. mac

Mac, thing is though, most of the time, some of the higher ups (not all, but some) appear to use a "shoot first and ransack the village first, ask questions later approach". Yes, it solves problems when there is an actual event that deems such action, but it also sets them up for a lot of "Whoops, we screwed up"

IMO, there is no proof to this, only an interpretation of pure statistics, which could have hundreds of legitimate reasons, but instead Rosity chose to pick the one that wasn't. So Lady Cherry, a long time contributor to this system, is not even given the benefit of the doubt to state her case, before being punished for a crime that most likely was not even committed. Even Rosity can't say for sure, so to me, why risk the backlash and bad PR that is sure to come out of this? Sometimes their decisions just make no sense at all...

If a lot of members are from cgtalk that come from her site, than that would definitely explain the discrepancy between visits and joins. We all know that cgtalk has quite an animosity (unfortunately) toward Poser and the like, and so even though they clicked the banner to see what Renderosity was, doesn't mean they'd be intersted in joining. That and the major server problems where people would probably hit the link several times just to get into the site probably had a lot to do with it to.

To me all Rosity accomplished by this was to piss off more people and cause bad PR for themselves over something that could, maybe, kinda be true, if one interprets the statistics that way. And it sucks for Lady Cherry who has given much and then treated as an outlaw over something as shaky as this. Bad form on Rosity's part...

I will have to give rendervisions a look...

ShadowWind

Asher, with all due respect, but if you had given the Lady "benefit of the doubt", you would have left her link alone... Innocent until PROVEN guilty, or is Rosity above that one? Again?

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

well i have no right to speak abotu it and no business into it, but i rather am amazed (not in a "good" way) at shortcomings and illogical statements of peoples anywhere. 1st asher stated the article of the TOS about fraudulous bhavior, but the sentence "we reserve the right to pull any link at any time." is separated by a return, and it is another sentence on its own, not linked to the statement about fraudulous use... This means, no matter even if you are clean and nice and don't break any rule they still stated they could just dump you no matter why. * Or so i want to belive in THIs explanation to give people benefit of the doubt* Anyway bad news, nowadays, you are considered guilty until you can prove you are innocent with proofs you have to provide yourself :) Forget the old nonsense about "innocent until proved guilty", it is just science fiction or myth ! Anyway, in my country, "hacking", or volontary actions aiming at disturbing or crippling any computer server or website is a penal crime, that can brign you sentences up to 300 000 to 450 000 fee. In my country, also, accusing peopel of severe crimes or law offenses (civil or penals) falsely and without proofs is ALSO a crime and severely punished. Now my question is: if render vision was so "offending" rosity eyes and was too old and had too much past records and log, why they did not JUST RESETTED it the first time when it changed from poserosity to rendervision name ? They didn't but now they do... Why not instad put up a system of webring site's ranking by users and members, so it would better reflect a reality ? Now for lady cherry departure, i could understand her legitimate feeling and decision, but in fact you would push the thing beyond admins/rosity hopes, because they wouldn't not even have to ban you themselves in a suspicious way, you would give them this pleasure ! Yet it is totally understanbable you dont want people who hurted you to profit in anyway of your own work you aim at users. Though i did not see much things for Poser in rendervision last time i checked. So may i hope all your rosity stuff would still migrate there ? well someone said people aren't interrested in politics and that's bad because politics by the end get back to us and spoil us in unexpected ways withotu us being aware of that at first. I sure do not have the right to even talk on this tread abotu such things, nor talk the way i did, but if a communauty expects of its members such a harsh self censorchip in the fear of a ban or something, and we cannot at least express either support or wonder about an apparent injustice, i rather not belogn to such a communauty anymore... Already left one in same circonstances, i am well trained now :)

omg they -are- accusing her of hacking/fraud. based on what? ohh that is right her site became TOO popular TOO quickly. wow I wonder what they are thinking about her growing stats NOW. now people are going in droves. I want to know the "we" that asher speaks of..isnt cresent a admin or mod here? and he didnt know about this stuff. lyra...isnt she one too? they didnt know. I am sorry but I have been out all day...and came home...looked over the thread..and in all actually this is slander to lady cherry. they are accusing her of an illegal action{hacking in the usa is illegal} they have said she got her place by unscrupulouse means. that is also saying she is dishonest. ~shakes her head~ God renderosity you have gotten the poop in a hot flying heap this time didnt you? to me this is underhanded and rather....~chews her lip~ malicouse of renderosity to do to lady cherry because asher believes the stats are unfathomable. he even stated"probably but not likely" he admits it is PROBABLY even possible for the stats to be accurate..did he wait to see hard core proof of them? no he just wiped them out and made a slanderouse accusation. sorry renderosity but in this case .....this is just disappointing. I would think that this site had more to it then just"ohh well we THINK you did wrong LETS BURN THE WITCHES" as for talking about this or making it public..sorry as we are the ones that make the "stats" we should have a right to know about accusations about sites we frequent. WE are the ones that are making or breaking your sites. renderosity MAY want to think about that abit more specially after this. also do any of you out there think that you are immune to such actions from renderosity? if they did this to lady cherry. who is next? I have defended renderosity many times. have pointed poeple to this site many times...but now...this makes me honestly wonder about who and what ideals are running this site.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

What we are looking at in this thread is public 'defamation of character' on the part of Lady Cherry. It has been posted in a public place, and could be considered 'slander', or because it's in print and published here, 'liable'. So unless proof is given to substantiate the accusations, Lady Cherry could in all likelyhood 'sue'....once something of this magnitude becomes public knowledge and accusations of illegal conduct are put forth, you are asking for trouble, and possibly legal action. As evidenced over the last few months of implementing policies, Renderosities credibility is in serious doubt...

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Zhann... Lady Cherry made it public, NOT Asher. Thomas

Do I believe Lady Cherry over the admins? Yes. Given the history of administrative actions/decisions here and their utter lack of accountability, I don't have any reason to believe the admins. Lady Cherry has offered publically to provide all of her server logs to prove she has comitted no fraud, but, hey, The Powers That Be have acted, and that's the end of it. At least I learned about Rendervisions this way, so some small good has come out of it. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Boy, sure looks like ol' Renderosity is fearing competition these days! I wonder why? Tim? @DarkElegance: as usual, you're right on target.

Gee, only a few days ago Tim gave command to review the web ring. Remember the ANNOUNCEMENT? What'sa matter, Tim? Mac and cheese getting old? LOL! Well, there goes my membership. Oh, like sigh man! I'll really try to get over it. What do we have in this thread? 95% disgust? What would the sensible person do? -Buh-bye!!!! And for those who choose to stay after this, you've no right to bitch any longer; your feeding this atrosity! OK AsherD, delete me! Hurry!

Wasn't that "Slander/Liable" thing on Spiderman?

Well, it's all confusing to me. I'm an IT person by trade (though I won't claim to be a network genius). Maybe everyone else understands stuff that I don't so I'll just post the things that are running through my mind: (1) Just how DOES someone manipulate their position on the ring (whatever that is...I've seen it but, honestly, I've never clicked on it to see what it does)? I can understand how people can "rig" contests (by getting their friends to vote for their stuff under different IDs) but I have no idea how someone can manipulate hits (and other related data). (2) Just what does one gain by being #2 on this webring thing anyway? Hits are hits but sales, which, it seems, are the most important thing of all. Does being #2 on the ring mean if I click it I go there (Rendervisions) before anyone else's site? I can tell you I went to Rendervisions because of Lady Cherry's reply to my search for anime products. That's how I became a member. And I've been back many times looking at other things. (3) Renderosity doesn't seem like the site to get pi$$ed at this sort of thing. I'm assuming they are #1 on this ring thing. Makes me wonder if other sites complained somehow (about being reduced to #3 and #4...etc.) After all, Renderosity allows just about every site I know of to advertise their stuff here in the Product Forum. If they were upset about someone (site) getting too popular, wouldn't they cut out all the advertising for all the other sites? Confusing to me. (4) I can truthfully admit to removing items from my wishlist here because I found the same item cheaper at other sites. And that's even considering that I might receive one of those 10% coupons from Renderosity that I have gotten in the past. So, if others are like me, they have done the same thing...upped hits on other sites because some products are priced better at other sites. I will also add here that the price on Lady Cherry's model was (is) an incredible bargain at $15. (I would have scooped up the Neftis doll...though that little cutie is STILL in my wishlist...by now if the price had been the same, for example) (5) As I said earlier, I started frequenting more sites as a result of technical problems that Renderosity was experiencing of late. Perhaps a lot of other people did, too. And, I noticed, a lot of other sites had some really good sales going as well as great pricing. So, again, if others are doing the same as I, THAT may account for the growth in "travel" to other sites...Rendervisions nothwithstanding. So, there are my thoughts...perhaps the thoughts of some others who don't really understand all that's going on. I'm not taking sides. All I know is I'll be visiting Rendervisions regularly due to what I discovered there and not because of its position on the "ring".

lady cherry taking this to the forums has no real bearing on anything. but that action has elicited a written response in this thread from asherD - as a representative of this website - which clearly accuses her of fraud. that's unequivocable and damaging unless true. presumably one "goes public" to either rally popular support or commit the subsequent events to a level of transparency that one has judged to be otherwise not possible....

Well, I would just like to say that I came here looking through all the sites that I could find on Google listed as having 3D objects... And I'm amazed. In the years that I have been on the internet, I had never listed a site in my "Favorites" until Renderosity. I can see why it's number one. I can't see why I didn't know about it sooner. [ heh... maybe you should look into television advertising, I'm sure you could find a few graphic artists to help ]

"But the numbers on her site's rise to the #2 spot in the Web Ring (over a matter of a few weeks) were much, much different from every other site in the Top 15."

How exactly is the webring ran from the Renderosity servers? Consider how many screw ups there have been lately. Merchant credit figures being off, accounting pages wrong. Isn't in conceivable that all the recent glitches could have affected the webring figures as well?
I don't know how the damn webring is run or why anyone would place much importance at all on it but to blame someone for fraud while saying there is reasonable doubt is pretty stupid.

...... Kendra

well..something must have happened. i understand the weighting a little, and sharp swings are odd and can set off alarms. if a site suddenly doubles or triples its traffic flow, it is unusual. but the ways and the means of the increase are sometimes hard to track. it could be legitimate or it could be "shifty". prob its hard for RO to tell one way or the other, but wildly swinging stats way out of the norm, do bring attention. maybe lady cherry just has a killer webmaster with great search engine tagging and weighting skillz. just my worthless few cents.

Hey Poison That killer webmaster is me hun -Giggle-
I just wanted to say I brought this public because I felt Wrongly accused in a major way. I wanted to see if other people would feel as hurt as I did getting that message. I also realized by the message, that by sending a private message back to the admin I would get little to no response, especially by the judging tone of it. I wanted to thank those that have taken the time to read it and give me thier opinions. I appreciate it very much.

Much Love
-Lady Cherry

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The Art Door and Rendervisions Community.
For Artists By Artists

Surely all that was required, in the first instance, was a mail from Renderosity to Lady Cherry detailing concerns, and asking if she had a rational explanation. She shows them her server logs, as she's offered to do since this blew up, they compare stats, and we all live happily ever after if they tally. If, and only if, incontravertable proof is obtained of wrongdoing should the site have been pulled from the ring. Innocent until proven guilty, as so many have remarked. What was done here smacks more of Facism rather than the "art community" spirit that is on the site logos. I'm FAR from religious, but one phrase keeps on coming back to me from school Bible class or somewhere. "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself" and it looks like that's happened to Renderosity in this thread, and deservedly so (imho) for reacting the way they did. Just because you're a business, and just because you consider you have top spot in your particular sphere of influence does NOT give you the right to disregard common courtesy let alone good business practice in this way.

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

I think I better put my two cents in. I have been a member of renderosity before it was renderosity. I remember the Rename the "Poser Online forum contest" I believe that Lady Cherry has been a member almost that long or longer. This is a complete and utter stab to all long term members of Renderosity, Whats next removing free stuff because too many people download it even if the download isn't using Rosity's bandwidth? Or maybe Just weed out all of the long time members completely? I would like to see proof. Numbers, facts, figures not just hunches.

I have been a member here forever, and quite frankly until this thread started I didn't realize there was a 'ranking' system for the Webring. Not really sure I understand the purpose in it since it is more or less a hop-scotch surfing affair anyway. Seems like everything over here has to have a ranking or rating... let's drop all that BS and start over equally. Most of us who have been here awhile know who is who and know what is going down [most of the time]...let the new people figure it out for themselves and not get frightened off by the politics...LOL>

I just found this thread and am wondering if the so called improvements made to the web ring had anything to do with Lady C being accused of wrong doing. "We have updated the Renderosity Web Ring Terms of Service (linked below), as well as changed the process for joining the Web Ring. The updated TOS more closely reflects the general site TOS, and stresses that non-art sites will not be accepted. Now, when a member submits their link, it will go into a pending state until the legitimacy of the linked site can be verified. The link is accepted or rejected based on compliance with the updated Web Ring TOS, and an automatic ebot email goes out to the member in either case. We are also going through the Web Ring to clean up non-art sites and dead end links. Lastly, we now have a script that will automatically run through the Web Ring on a regular basis and remove dead links (the link is given two chances to work in case the site is having problems the first time). We believe that all of these updates will improve the Web Ring's usefulness and legitimacy for our members. If you have questions or concerns please ask away. thanks, --Asher " Seems to me that while monkeying with the web ring settings maybe that is how &*$%# Asher got his stats to persecute Lady C

either way this is a shame and a blyte to renderosity. it is disappointing to see this from a site I believed in so much.{yes you -can- believe in a site even if you think the TOS needs to include holding a viewer responsable{that is for those that would jump on me for saying I believed in them} I am shocked and dismayed everytime I read this thread..it just shocks me that renderosity would of done this with out even giving lady cherry a chance to prove her stats! all I can say is that I am glad they are not police or judges....then all of society would either be executed or in jail..because they -think- they MAY be quilty.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

hmm, even if I was to assume (I don't assume either way) its true what AsherD says, how do you know its Lady Cherry and not someone else/something else? Sounds like shooting the victim for being raped to me. I have no data to know for sure whether she manipulated the ranking or not, so don't have any other opinion on this.

Just wondering if this thread has run its course, or are we all waiting on a more responsive response from the PTB? Any progress at your end, Lady Cherry?

I'm guessing that getting an actual apology out of anyone here is as likely as being able to bite your own elbow. [sarcasm]Of course, why apologise when you suspect you're right?[/sarcasm]

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

The Powers That Be have spoken. ORF WIF HER HEAD! bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

O.O geez ORF WIF HER HEAD? and we thought just being accused was bad??? now they are taking heads!?!?!?!?

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Hi DarkGinger They wont look at my stats because they dont care. Asher has made it clear that nothing will be changed and that he is right. He will not appologize nor will he take the time to read over any stats that I can provide him with. That is apparent. Its a shame really! Its a real shame. My Guess (Bluntly Put) is he does not want to be proven wrong in any way shape or form. So he will stick to his guns and not appologize nor say another word on it. Funny because when I was a system admin at harvard if I was in the wrong no matter how impossible it seemed I would MAKE 100% sure before I said it was thier fault. A few times I WAS wrong and made sure I didnt jump the gun first. I allways give the scientist or User in this case the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise. Much Love -Lady Cherry

The Art Door and Rendervisions Community.
For Artists By Artists

Oh well, it looks like we have to deal with another piece of luggage here. Strolls away whistling...... >;o)

---

---

Software: Daz Studio 4.15,  Photoshop CC, Zbrush 2022, Blender 3.3, Silo 2.3, Filter Forge 4. Marvelous Designer 7

Hardware: self built Intel Core i7 8086K, 64GB RAM,  RTX 3090 .

"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

"A critic is a legless man who teaches running." ~ Channing Pollock

My Gallery  My Other Gallery 

~shakes her head~ RENDEROSITY YOU ARE MAKING A BIG MISTAKE ~clears her throat~ well I know one thing atleast one person will not be putting money into this site....

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

I wonder if we as the community can call for an impeachment of sorts for moderators that abuse their power or refuse to be for lack of a better term honest. Or maybe we should take Elizabytes suggestion and ORF WIF ASHERS' HEAD.

O.O now we are taking heads??? I think we will need some of those baskets and a Daz quiotine!

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

"I wonder if we as the community can call for an impeachment of sorts for moderators that abuse their power or refuse to be for lack of a better term honest." Accountability has long been a problem here. They do what they want, when they want, the way they want, and if the members or merchants don't like it, well, it's just too bad, isn't it? After all, there are plenty of OTHER sites you could go to to spend your money or talk to people or get information, etc... ;-) As a matter of fact, there's a growing movement for people to boycott the store here, just because of things like this. A simple apology would have gone so far to ease the bad feelings, but, hey, who cares. We're only customers, right? bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

~whispers~ wasnt it a site geting to big that started this? so their thoery of "well you dont like it go someplace else" kind of backfired didnt it?

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

You can always IM Merchants that have stuff you like and ask if they are willing to sell direct via Paypal and keep all of their profits... ;) And note the silence of Asher & Co.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

"First of all, Lady Cherry and Rendervisions is already back in the Web Ring, as we would like to give her the benefit of the doubt. That was even before I had seen this thread this morning; in my original message (as we all know) I invited her to rejoin. But the numbers on her site's rise to the #2 spot in the Web Ring (over a matter of a few weeks) were much, much different from every other site in the Top 15. Not to mention that those other top sites had been a part of the Web Ring for at the very least a year, and in most cases much longer. Rendervisions joined the Web Ring in Feb 03. One's standing in our Web Ring is based on 3 factors, each assigned a different 'weight'. The higher one's total weight, the higher in the Web Ring she'll appear. I'm not going to share those numbers with everyone here. Though her numbers were significantly, obviously, and oddly out-of-line with every other site in the Top 15, not to mention on down the list. Most of the skewed activity was recent, reflecting the meteoric rise to the top. Is it possible for those numbers to be arrived at legitimately? Of course...Is it likely?...Not very" Ummm actually Asher it is very likely. You may not think so but after rosity had so many damned problems over the last month how is it NOT LIKELY that a few sites made a metoric rise to the top. NOT everyone goes to Poser Pro's, Rotica, Commune and the like. I honestly believe you owe Lady Cherry an apology. "Is it likely? ... Not very"

Well Renderosity should have spoken first and shot later, cause now they've started a stampede to Rendervisions, wonder how the numbers will look now. Things will unfold as they should, the fear motivation never works out, and the cream always rises to the top. I heard this annonimous quote recently," There's only one art in America, and that's business." Lets not let this growth in our communities lead to WW3D.

from AsherD: [ to Lady Cherry at Rendervisions.com ]
"We have removed your link in the Renderosity Web Ring. We have extensive experience in the amount of time it takes for a site to move up to the number two spot, and the rate of your site's advance is cause for attention when we believe the results were not achieved through legitimate means. You are welcome to rejoin the Web Ring and participate on an even field. thanks,
--Asher Renderosity Admin"

To: --Asher Renderosity Admin

I joined Rendervisions roughly 4 months ago. I was member # six hundred and thirty-something.
Now...membership has topped the 2500 member mark. That's a big increase in traffic. And a lot of them are the "get in there...roll up your sleeves...and help out" kind of people. (Happy to know them.) The site wasn't much 4 months ago...Zero posts on a lot of the forum categories...Only about 75 images in the gallery...Only 2 or 3 names listed as "Admins and Moderators"...A marketplace that mostly sent you elsewhere, including Renderosity I might add, for your items of interest. But with Lady Cherry and Enchanting Mirage plugging away at it...it has grown, and grown quickly. There are now about a dozen moderators...Hundreds of wonderful images in the various galleries...And a marketplace that is gaining in both content and quality.

Your above statement talks a numbers game...."we believe the results were not achieved through legitimate means."....so does that mean you "believe" your results are? I, for one, logged into Renderosity over 3 months ago...I have not logged out since then. Do you "believe" I have been online -At your site- for all that time? I doubt it...yet with all your number crunching, "No Red Flags"? Of course not....That's one more number in the "There are currently xxxx surfers online." column. Not a peep from anyone saying.."You should log off when you leave." or "Please don't remain logged in when you depart the site." How many would truly be "Surfing Renderosity" if they all logged out when they left the site. "Legitimate means?" ...sounds shifty to me. I think the key to understanding the above statement is this: "the rate of your site's advance is cause for attention".... Is it attention? or alarm? Do the big boys feel someone breathing down their necks? Is another site offering a better deal to vendors in the marketplace? Is another site treating the artists that support that site with more respect and dignity? Is another site helping new artists instead of acting like they are a burden to the site? Is another site getting "your" customers? What you did was nothing more than a blatant monopolistic act in an attempt to stifle the competition. "Even playing field"...my microsoft ass.

-Henk Stenkel
Former Renderosity Member

BTW: I have "Logged out"permanently.

~blinks~ I think in the near year I have been here I have "logged out" four times or so...not because I logged out but because I ran windows washer..or such that it took outmy cookies. as it is I stay logged in for convience. but that does NOT mean I am here 247. lordy. do they think all the memebers are here all the time? Renderosity you need to listen to the people that are speaking. it is the members that make or break a site and you can see that you are making more enemies then friends. this deal with Lady Cherry is alienating many many MANY people. you ARE loosing money and potential customers. Our words DO matter even if you wont listen becuase even if -you- dont listen to what we are saying here others are. You are loosing customers and members. Your actions of condemnation and of hangman antics is only showing an insecurity of your own grasp on your own site and stats. if you were worried or concerned with Lady cherry's stats befor they must just terrify you now. Please Reconsider this action.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Here's my two cents. [ and my being new here shouldn't affect anyone's oppinion, because it IS my opinion.] If I had a website called "Renderosity" and someone came up with "Poserosity" and then "Rendervision", I would not give them a link on my website... In fact... I'd try to lose them entirely. Do you know that the ONLY reason that I would consider looking at "Rendervisions" is it appears to be in colaboration with "Renderosity"? Doen't anyone think THAT might be an unfair way to gain popularity and respect? Maybe even enough respect to take you to the "Big Number Two Slot"?

FrenchToast - there was in fact another site a long time ago that named itself "Renderocity" by a long time Renderosity member, well known & skillful merchant. At no time do I recall her site seemingly to fall under attack or given the cold shoulder by RO because of the knock-off name. And to me, that one is a blatant knock-off. There is also currently a site called Renderotica - which is self explanatory in name, but that I would not consider a knock-off at all of Renderosity.

Also, to name a few others:
3D Commune
3D Arena
Poser City
Poserworld
Poserstyle
Rendervisions

Part of the reason for 'similar' sounding names is evident to most - it involves 3d/Poser and they want the name to stand out as such - and that will end up with some names sounding very much the same. And of course, you will have the people who want to bank on knock-offs of a site's name - I'm in NO way saying any in that list are such, btw.

The reason RO has their webring is to link sites of a similar nature - this by their own admitting. And many of them are sites that either operate independently as a community itself and/or have 3d items to purchase. RO has been growing convulsingly and in similar fashion changing how they operate as a business and allow access to certain 'proprietary' (as they feel) information and/or areas. This is their right as a business - but as a business that runs a 'community', they are going to upset, dissapoint, and down right piss off a lot of people who are sure gonna let them know it.

RO does not discourage cross-site knowledge in terms of trying to stifle direct competition. They consider themselves to be number 1, but certainly not the only player in the game - and hey! - they'll even show ya where the others are, just jump into their ring. :)

So, What are you trying to say? It's not a coincidence.

Well I tried to log out permanently... How in the hell do you get out of this crazy system? I can "log out". But I am "still" considered a member. "I WANT OUT - TOTALY". I no longer want to contribute, be part of, or in any way shape or form add to the Renderosity numbers. Remove me and anything associated with me from this site. Yesterday would be better than tomorrow.

HenkStenkel - there used to be a 'leave' button when a person no longer wanted to be an RO member. It appears that it doesn't exist anymore. I'd say i.m. an admin to have yourself removed as a member. French - what I'm saying is that if a site's success via webring stats due to being named what you consider to be knock-off of 'Renderosity' were to have happened - it would have happened long before Rendervisions came along.

but that is the thing Frenchtoast..renderosity got pissed because they grew TOO popular IN RENDEROSITIES web ring. Lady Cherry has been a contributer to RO for a lOOOOOOOOONG time. the names are due to similar interests and the term "render" which we all know from doing anything in 3d. it was not some outsider coming and "stealing" ROs idea or name or anything. what they got pissed at was that her site started growing immensly and they werent geting anything out of it. Lady Cherry has valid stats.not made up. not stolen from RO, not HACKED...honest stats that apparently either RO at a whole or Asher as a person didnt like. She didnt Take, steal, or in any other way unlawfully get anything from Renderosity. ~smiles a tad saddly~ now though..people are leaving due to ROs actions not Lady Cherrys.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Renderosity does not have the market on names like "Poser", "render" or the like. They do not own them, they can not own them and anyone has the right to use them in a name.

...... Kendra

Well AsherD, i think that you at the very very least should take a look at lady C's stats. If you are so sure that you're right, then what's the harm? I think this hole thread is disgusting, but i'm not really surprised anymore. But one good thing came out of this, i discovered lady C's site and am now a member:)

Well, like I said... I'm just putting in my two cents. To me, it would be like a band named "Metal Zeppelin" coming out on Swan Song Records and suddenly making it into the top ten. Hey, anybody can use those "words". I'm not willing to argue about any of this, because I don't know any of the personalities involved. I really am a new comer; It just struck me like that.

The thing to remember is that it all relates to Poser or "Rendering", etc. That's why sites have names like Renderosity, Poserworld, Poserpros, etc. I'm not trying to argue with you either but the subject matter is much smaller in this case with a smaller dictionary, so to speak, than the band theory. :) It's just a fact than anyone with a 3d site name has to accept.

...... Kendra

Even if Lady Cherry's site did have a name that was similar to Renderosity's, that doesn't give them the right to accuse her of fraud and then refuse to apologize for the accusation while simultaneously refusing to review her logs and other evidence that there was no fraud committed. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

Seriously Asher needs to apologize and review those logs. Oddly enough there are things that are 'right' and things that are 'wrong'.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

The name Poserosity was used a few years ago because I wanted to keep the posername and for a lack of better thought we added the osity to the end, This with the fact that we were OFFERING FREE WEBSPACE FOR RENDEROSITY MEMBERS TO HOST THIER FREE STUFF AT RENDEROSITY (To ONLY help members here). Because we knew that it was hard to find a good web host. (Eventually we had to drop the free hosting because of a couple of malicious users) As soon as we changed our site and had it professionally hosted and we added a gallery and became a real community we decided to change the name to Rendervisions. Why did we change the name? Well we felt as though the poserosity name was too close to renderosity and the fact that it locks us into one program. Rendervisions gave us the chance to be a community for ALL artists, All programs. Now we offer free webspace to dedicated moderators and active merchants on our site. Just something to give back to say Thank you for being with us. We believe the better we do the better the community should do as well. Not Vice versa. We are an artists community FOR artists BY artists! Our site will continue that slogan untill I Breath my last breath. I work hard every day to make sure artists get seen and heard. I know when I started how difficult it was for me! I dont want anyone else to go through that either. Much Love, -Lady Cherry

The Art Door and Rendervisions Community.
For Artists By Artists

[ off the subject ] While I was reading your paragraph on offering webspace, for a second it looked like it ended with the word VISA... heh... nevermind :o

"Since we do not have a way to just ?reset? a sites statistics to zero, we had to remove and have the site re-join the web ring. The site is already back in the web ring and we will watching for any possible issues, so we can address concerns quickly." Does that also mean you have no way of reinstating the old statistics if you find that nothing wrong actually occured?

i am new in renderosity community..never had any sort of problems ( just once the administrators asked me very kindly to retouch some images of mine that showed explict male genitals a little " aroused"..lol.i am uploading my art almost everyday and made some very good friends ...but, after reading all this stuff here i decided to join rendervisions right now (september,18,saturday)...and i think the site is gorgeous...ill do my best to support , somehow, the development of a new way of exchanging art, thecnics and whatever may interest an art community,always respecting the community rules, of course... a great and restful weekend to all!!!

...I love it when people read old threads. Congrats Odrah...You've made a great choice in RenderVisions. See ya there.