This has been brought up before, but I'm bringing it up again. There's a pic in the hot20, and we all know which one I'm talking about. The one that shouldn't be in there. I'm embarrassed to be near it. Now, I was once at that level and I always encourage newbies. But why vote for such images? To me it's a slap in the face to all the folks that have spent years trying to improve. I know there's no way to remedy this problem. I'm just curious why those who voted for that image did so?

Why worry about ? They are usually up short-term... and it depends on how often they appear there too.

Let me take a wild guess.....the fantastic pic of a boat?

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

No comment Bryster LOL... I'm not worrying about. They arent short term, this continues to happen over and over again. I'd just like to know why people are voting these type of images in.

I think the guy's a plonker (Brit expression) which also means he just plonks stuff on the page and calls it a render......

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

Yep to the above.. And I wonder why it is always this specific poster that makes it in the H20??? No other work of an equal skill level makes it.. Just this one. How queer (odd, strange) :-

I saw it too---it didnt really make me mad until I saw that 3 pics in a row were in there, and thats 3 spots that couldve been given to someone much much more deserving. i think when the thing happened w/ ornlu, we had all gathered "evidence" and figured that this specific person was cloning accounts or something of that nature. It makes me mad at times, but I see it like the true dedicated artists stick and the other people who have the amazing ability to purchase huge quanities of software will filter out eventually. or atleast I hope...

Several of Unicorn's pics (why are we afraid of names?) have made it to the H20, and they are voted in by his "posse" which may or may not be cloned accounts. The thing that bothers me is that I see many established artists give these images praise. We all know how hard it is to get in the H20, so why would you vote for an image just because it is already there, regardless of the actual image quality? How can you look at your own deserving art, and then congratulate this persion for an image that possesses nothing more special than 90% of other "newbie" type images? I'd like to know, really.

Hmmm....perhaps if these images were 'fairly' critiqued in comments, the person would learn something. I have a tough time with publicly stating 'ways to improve' and prefer to give that in private, but I know some of you are probably quite good at it! ;) You know what I mean...comments like...'why not try modelling your own boat!' or 'maybe you need a light or two in there!' or maybe a long list of such helpful hints. :D Tres

Fractals will always amaze me!

I think many don't comment there as the person in question didn't take it very well (threatening Ornlu). I am sorry about great Bryce art getting buried after a day because it didn't make the Top 20. So lets all browse the gallery and vote for what we really like, the only solution I think.

My gallery @ Renderosity

I've tried to give constructive critiques on his images (well... construsctive but a bit rough maybe...) and what i've gained is a couple of silly comments under my images.... Why donn't just rename the "hot 20" the "hot 17 + blackunicorn's kindergarten"

Seems Sylvie has stated what you are noticing. Maybe we all should help Blackunicorn with some constructive criticism..;] And then again the people posting those glorious comments may have no taste in art....or just no taste...

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Maybe it needs someone to do the same as happens im the poser forum. People who have the time, andI suppose a good fast connection, regularly browse the gallery uploads and put up list of "must see" images. I find sometimes this is easier than browsing the whole upload sections!

The greatest part of wisdom is learning to develop  the ineffable genius of extracting the "neither here nor there" out of any situation...."

Relax Doug, I just voted(well-deserved) Now you have more distance from the usurper.

Lol I would at least expect an image in the Hot 20 to have been anti Aliased, that's just damn shoddy work.

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Toolset: Blender, GIMP, Indigo Render, LuxRender, TopMod, Knotplot, Ivy Gen, Plant Studio.

Well.. I think it's a good thing for him to be in the top 20 Because compared to people present in the top20 such as Rochr, beton and you occdoug it gives a real proof of why Black Unicorm is there and how far he is from those who really deserve a place in the top. If BU is in the top20 it's only because his "crew" vote for him.. just as he vote for them everytime they post a pic... not regarding to the image quality of course.

lol, I just don't get how an image that now has a ranking of "nice" can be anywhere near the hot20. I should just ignore this guy/girl, but this bugs me. Dont know why someone would feel the need to cheat in order to feel established as an artist lol..just checked BU's gallery...contains 574 images! wow! Perhaps if he/she spent more time on individual pieces, his/her artwork would actually be deserving of a spot on the hot20

Your right ocddoug, this blokes doodles' continually enter the Top 20 for a week and then return to obscurity where they belong.

Did you realise he also holds position No.6 on the all time 'most viewed' list (8420 views) with an image cheating its way up the chart by purporting to be of a sexual nature.
He has another three or four images in the 'Hot 100 ' as well.

His average viewing figures for an image is normally between 200 and 300 which must put an awfull strain on his 'supporters' since he has posted nearly 600 pictures in the last eleven months.

Recognised good artists in this Forum do post helpful comments for this chap but if you check out his pics from eleven months ago you'll see absolutely no difference with his output from then to now, in other words he takes not the slightest interest in improvement but continues to churn out these freebie models against a Bryce background pics at a rate of knots. Pretty pictures maybe but certainly not art as we know it Jim.

The attached file is one of Mr.Black's recent efforts and I quite like the sentiment of the first comment "Someone once described suicide as a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

Quite so.

Bye now...Dennis

Guilty as charged! I hold me hands up....it's a fair cop Guv! I commented on the boat in order to try to get a reaction. No luck! After the Ornlu thing I think that something has to be done......My one and only success with the Hot 20 to weeks of work and eystrain.....not to mention brain-strain.....I'll say it again ....this guy's a plonker!

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

Did you remeber the guy in the Poser gallery who made a lot of silly images with a pinky winged pony and dominated the hot 20 with 10-15 images for months? It seems that every gallery has its crazy moments.. lol

Legume I think.

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple

Ah but the pink pony was a change from NVIATWS, and that whole thing was a scam to take the micky out of the poser hot 20.

The greatest part of wisdom is learning to develop  the ineffable genius of extracting the "neither here nor there" out of any situation...."

Isn't 'Legume' French for 'chicken'? Continuity?

You're right ocddoug, constant abuse would be a problem. However, this one seems recent? Or have I missed a more long term problem with this particular one? I hadn't noticed it before.

Syncopate, BU usually has 2 images in the hot 20 they are changing continuosly (since he produces 1 image per day)but is name is always in the hot 20

Hey, maybe we need the ability to "anti-vote", which would subtract a vote from an image's total. Then if you saw an image in the Hot20 that you didn't think deserved to be there, you could anti-vote until it fell off the chart. :^)

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy

Aren't all the galleries like that to some extent though? In fact, any web-based voting set-up seems to produce that "vote for your friends" or "vote for myself" phenomenon. It's usually pretty obvious to me which images are there on merit versus those that are there via popularity or vote-soliciting through friends. It's kinda sad really when you think about it. For someone to need validation so badly that they seek a false sense of achievement that way. No, it's not fair to those who deserve the recognition but manage to get overlooked. But at least they have the advantage of knowing when their work is really appreciated by people. And if they're really good, sooner or later they get discovered by the masses. :)

I dont like to bitch about anyone, but come on, that scene belongs in the "WIP" section. Its not finished! Not that i will loose any sleep over it though. If this is vote-cheating, its his loss in the end. Not only in terms of knowledge with the app, but also in terms of reputation. Once you get a bad rep, youre out in the cold. And artists are kinda like elephants, good memory...

Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com

I'd comment on his images but I've been told not to by the administration. Just ignore him, who cares. It's pretty damn pathetic that he has to comment on his own images with other accounts (or so I've been told by the administration that he has several clones [look at the art galleries of the people who comment on every one of his images, most of them have very similar art to his, just less of it.]) The last time I pointed out an imported car (which he claimed was made in bryce) it cost me a serious attack on my gallery as well as several threatening Private Messages. Yet he wasn't banned. Is he an artist? No... Is he immoral? Yes... Until the administration does something I would suggest NOT commenting on any of his art. He is has some serious psycological issues that are apparently unexplained. If you do comment, be prepared for some seriously immature feedback in the way of PM's or Trolling. The best path is to ignore it. If you keep picking the scab, it will only get worse.

Well said Ornlu...

Very much agree on the wip setting. As a wip it is at best acceptable. As a finished work it is a steaming pile...! (personal opinion!) To my mind that voting looks very nepotistic too.

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

Yeah, the guy doesn't cover his tracks very well. All it takes is a few minutes of investigation before it is painfully obvious that at least 4 or 5 of his "supporters" are cloned accounts. And here I thought that playing with yourself in public would get you tossed out of most establishments! I don't know who he thinks he's fooling.

I think Creations suggestion is best. I mean, look, there are nearly three times as many posts here in this thread than there are votes for this image. Even the number one image has fewer votes than there are posts in this thread. If each and everyone of us went and found just twenty images more deserving of H20 reconision and submitted a vote, it would make it quite a bit more difficult for some one to "cheat" their way in. (If there is in fact multi-account use, it would at least force the person to go through the trouble of having to keep track of a lot more accounts just to stay afloat. >:] ) Anyway, I'm off to vote for some images. Have fun.

I couldnt care less if this individual has set up multiple accounts in order to get himself into the Hot 20. Whats the point of that? What I do find quite depressing is the fact that a couple of very positive comments were made by artists who most definitely are not clones of the poster, artists who I respect and who have given me a boost by making positive comments on my gallery postings on more than one occasion. In praising this particular work they have made me question the value of my stuff. Surely they didn`t give this a vote?

I remember once when I critiqued his work once. I'll never do it again. I was threatened in a private message that people were hacking me. I don't even look at his pictures any more in fear he might screw up my gallery views and rankings like he did to Ornlu. In my opinion, the things hes done should of been grounds for his account being cancelled. We all know that his multiple "friends" (who all speak french by the way), are nothing more than cloned accounts. Either that, or their pity votes. Theres always going to be people like this around, and the best thing to do is ignore him.

With the normal gallery I tend to only click if it's something that looks good, or it's by one of the usual gang (if those are mutally exclusive ;-) It's easy to skip the crapola. But with the H20 it's a bit of a shame that a legit picture might have been knocked out or never made it in because of this vote fixing. it's just a bit unfair. I wonder how many pictures I could have had in the H20 if not for cheats? (Probably the same number :-( BUT I'm also guilty. I very rarely give votes for images unless it's really impressive. Maybe I should give votes a bit more easily in order to help get a true H20.

Maybe the real problem is fake accounts. I wonder if there's a solution there. IP logging is tricky and invasive. And would be unfair again to some users that share the same machine.

And on a similar theme, the rating system is really pretty meaningless. I stopped using it when my own pictures all started to get excellent ratings, even when I wasn't totally happy myself. Maybe scrap it, or have an option to hide it for people that want to. Or maybe I'll just continue to ignore it.

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Phillip Drawbridge
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I dont think we can make the same assumption as D_hood and assume the french speakers who comment on BUs site are clones. There is no comparison between the works of Mel3d and his, and I cant see why anyone producing work like that posted under the name "Madame" would feel the need to do this and yet the former of these artists praises almost every work of his, while the latter is a regular admirer. Are these people so nice that they say thet to all the boys? Another artist I admire, whanfried1959, also seems to be a fan. I dont get it. I wouldnt wish to impose my artistic views on anyone but surely these talented artists can see these images for what they are. If anyone feels uncomfortable that I have actually mentioned names here, Im sorry but if the PTB dont like it, they can ban me. dont think I`ll be doing much Brycing in the near future anyway.

A few have brought up my thoughts on a thread I posted months ago about the Bryce H20. The low point to get a sopt is like 5 votes on avg. That is WAY to low. I dont think enough people vote. If we raise the bar to even get in there... this kind of "self-voting" will be harder to do. jmo...

I guess I should of put more detail into my comment. When I actually looked at his pictures, I would notice right after he posts his picture, 3 or 4 people would leave a comment in french and they would always be the same names. I understand that this site is international and there are alot of french speakers here, but I also think its too much of a coincidence. Unless these people are adoring fans of his, they must be clones. Every message here seems to say the same thing "his work isnt good enough for the hot20, so Im assuming these people are clones. Ive also seen many artist who I look up to as inspiration vote and rank his work. This I dont understand.

lol 5 votes to get into the hot20.....not that is kinda sad... so many of us have never made it there (not like i ever will get there) and all it takes is 5 votes?? somethings wrong here... lol if i had to get like 30 votes to get there wouldn't feel so bad...but to know that all these wonderful artists only need 5 votes??? kinda sucks....frankly on a site, where there are hundreds of brycers....1000's of bryce pictures, and around 25,000 posts in THIS forum, one only needs 5 votes to get into the highly esteemed Hot20? We can't criticize anyone else, until we ourselves, are willing to do something about it.... bitching and moaning may feel good....getting others opeinions even better.... but in the end...in the absolute end...what does it realy accomplish with this subject? If we want to stop this, WE ourselves, have to be the ones to step forward....not over worked mods and admins playing censor, not in comments under the images saying this sucks... but in VOTING!! Lets make the HOT20 something to look up to!! Lets make it worthwhile to get into! Lets WORK to improve our community.... Don't get me wrong, I love the images there, most are fantastic! but come on.... 4 or 5 votes?? We CAN do better!!!

get's off the soap box now lol

I too am shocked at the people who I greatly admire who have given glowing responses to his work, and probably voted for him too. One thing that it may be connected to is (French Canadian), maybe they have made a pact to all vote for each other. My other thought as to why folk vote for him is that he's a witch and has cast a spell over many people, and with the way he keeps appearing in the hot one perhaps the latter is true. maybe he's put a spell on the admin too 'cos I really think that he should have been banned after what he did to Ornlu. Anyway we can all agree he's a sicko and perhaps it would be a good idea to make a list of must see's and all go vote for them. If nothing else it would make him have to work harder at voting for himself to get in there again. 8) Catlin

I agree, its shameful how his uninitiated, feeble attempts at producing something that can remotely be called finished artwork are locking out many worthwhile artists who deserve the recognition a hundredfold over. What makes it all the more embarrassing is that he has no scruples about the whole sordid ordeal. He has absolutely no shame in the fact that his modus operandi is as transparent as glass. As a Renderosity member, we have a right to post a comment or advice on any posted image that encourages comments and constructive criticism and no one here should have to fear retaliation. Especially now that he has already been warned by the administration. So, take heed, maybe the time is right to be watchful over the gallery and comment were necessary and deserving and, if you in truth feel, an image doesnt deserve a great or excellent rating, then rate it something else or nothing at all but feel free to comment until your hearts content. Any threats or impertinent IMs should be saved and brought to the attention of the administration.

Maybe pictures shouldn't make it into the H20 until they have a minimum number of votes. Would that make it harder for clone voters? And (OT) does anyone see the text labels in the reply box in the forum? I'm getting white on light blue under the new colour scheme.

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Phillip Drawbridge
Website 
Facebook

500+ pictures since february, where the hell do you have so much time to do so much? Even that questionable quality of work requires some time, and a day has only 24 hours. Ahh well. I am not so pleased with the idea of a minimum vote to get into the H20, it is indeed a bit harder for the clone-voters but it would also make it harder for us lesser-gods with only a small flock of fans. I managed to get a picture (Room 101) in the H20 once with only 4 votes, a minimum of 5 would be quite a hurdle.

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

I'm bored now....I'm going back to rendering and looking at REAL art in this forum.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

As others have noted - vote more and bitch less. The only qualification for an image to make a place in the "Hot 20" is for it to receive more "Hot 20" votes than images that don't make a place. Please note: this really is the ONLY qualification. Any supposed merit of a work is irrelevant. The admin have previously stated (in one at least one of the eleventy-twelve-zillion "Hot 20" blubs) that it isn't feasible to limit clone account voting, since this would have the side effect of limiting legitimate activities by legitimate clone account holders. Therefore (shock, horror) the only way "unworthy" images will be kept out of the "Hot 20" is by enough people bothering to vote for images they consider "worthy". As can be seen (at time of posting) by comparing the number of whines in this thread against the number of votes received by images in the "Hot 20" (and assuming this apparent passionate interest in the "Hot 20" is genuine) - a majority of the complainers here don't actually consider most of the other images as any more worthy than BlackUnicorn's. On that basis, BlackUnicorn's placing in the "Hot 20" is fully deserved. And since BlackUnicorn is inadvertently (?) pointing out the complete and total worthlessness of the "Hot 20" concept, he/she gets my (entirely metaphorical) vote.

Aye, screw the Hot 20. It's rigged with an open door for idiocy, and although I love each of the other 19 images there AND their creators, there's a FLIP side to this coin. What if someobody slamming you is NOT Black Unicorn, when you were certain that it was? I recently made an "enemy", somehow, by being too blunt in a critique. It came back on me, as I accused this person of being another Black Unicorn clone. When this person replied with intelligence, it proved to me that it was in fact NOT Black Unicorn. And that I was wrong. And I went back to delete my too-blunt comment to find that this person, who has been posting for years, has taken down their ENTIRE gallery. We have lost a potential teacher and a good artist, whatever level he may be on, because I was foolish. The flip side to THAT is that if this person who is NOT Black Unicorn is so weak as to take down their gallery based off of some text that I input-ed; If they are too weak of character to ignore the likes of me, then they deserve to smoke themselves in this manner. His loss, not mine. Still, Unicorn is a specific person and event, according to the TOS he should have been banned. Perhaps I should be banned for inadvertently smoking another artist, but I had no intentions of degrading this person, merely offering blunt advice about the maturity of an image. There is no RIGHT, only POWER. I think Black Unicorn needs to go, or go to the beginner gallery, although I'd not wish his violent "tongue" on them either.

I have only one comment after reading this..."continues to churn out these freebie models against a Bryce background pics at a rate of knots"..18. Re: Hot 20 by Dennisld ... Surely this cant be talking about me .. cause I am about as slow as a snail ..and even quieter than a mouse. ok.. I know... but if cant find humor in all of this what is the sense of it all ?

And, for the record, I disagree with you, D Hood. The best thing to do is NOT ignore him, the best thing would be to challenge him, but that is not legal these days. If someone threatened to hack my machines, no matter how idiotic or empty as a threat, they are threatening my livelihood and my loves, and I need no other reason to cold smoke someone. Sorry, I just got done watching the new Quentin Tarantino movie, and have little regard for human life at this particular moment. Kindly file me in the "asshole" section of you minds, have a nice day!

If anyone receives ANY kind of threat communicated to them (from anyone at anytime), contact me with a copy/paste of the communication. AgentSmith

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

If people didn't disagree with me, the world would be boring. It was BlackUnicorn who threatened me, and I dicided not to send a message back, because he thought I was Ornlu in disguise. After looking at his "art" and reading his incoherent jibberish, I'm surprised he has the knowledge to even turn his computer on. I was not at all threatened by his little scare tactics. I find it sad that he cannot listen and learn from critism.

Lol, I agree, boring. I had informed BlackUnicorn, via I.M. that you are not Ornlu. I'm pretty sure this was after his I.M. to you. AgentSmith

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Geez,..........I got a couple of images in the Hot 20 with only four votes in period (What is the "period" ?) Maybe this is the only life he/she/it has. The only social outlet. The individual is only fooling themselves. I sometimes get frustrated that I don't get many viewing on any images, especially of late, and I sometimes think why isn't anyone looking or commenting on my stuff ? Then I have to ask myself,........why does it bother me what someone else does or doesn't do. The individual's work is to me, pedestrian at best, clearly not much work or concern goes into their work. My point is,.........well, I guess I don't really have one,........nevermind.

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

Lol, he must be pretty paranoid, seeing Ornlu's everywhere. I hope I give him nightmares.

In my recent travelling of chat rooms.... I came acromm this man....very rude, crass...self destructive. Everyone thought he was an ass....and in truth he was being an ass. But to me, something didn't seem quite right. Sometimes I sense things in people over then net. And something wasn't right... My mothering instincts set in, and I started talking to him...getting to know more. I found out that he has what is known as Aspergers Syndrome. The closest condition they can compare it to is a very mild form of autism. It limits his abilities in social situations. (I then read on it some) And it causes him to act out when otherwise is not needed... He misunderstands others words, and others misunderstand his.. Chat room disaster if people dont' understand the why behind that what. Perhaps, instead of saying someone's work sucks, and they're an ass.....you might wanna try to find out why they behave the way they do... Not every ass is an ass because thet choose to be, but because they do not know how to be something else. This Unicorn guy, may just be one of those guys, who has some type of condition that limits his abilities. It is obvious that his english is somewhat lacking, but that could be from translation, or from something else. Perhaps a few years ago, he could not do more than a doodle, and this is amazing progress... My point is this.... Until someone actually talks to him, rationally, and without hatred....with an OPEN mind, without backing him into a corner... Do we really know the facts behind what is being said?? Just something to think about..... Jen

I can see where you're coming from sackrat but I'd rather have 3 genuine comments then 10 fake or fanclub comments. This is precisely the reason that I may only vote an image once every couple of weeks, to get my vote it has to be something truly outstanding. Means a lot more to me when someone I respect posts a comment that says well done you've improved, compared to a well done from someone I don't know (does that make sense I'm a little over tired here..) BTW well said Jen sometimes we have to be reminded that it's harder to assess someone over the ether then it is face to face

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Toolset: Blender, GIMP, Indigo Render, LuxRender, TopMod, Knotplot, Ivy Gen, Plant Studio.

... wait a minute.. I should be insulted here too.. This is my only social outlet!!..just kidding, about the insulted part anyway. as for the acual topic.. i've no comments since its nothing important to me..

Jen it had occurred to me that this person had some mental problems that none of us were aware of. At the same time I don't think that means he should get votes for his work out of sympathy, that is not going to help him. He also clearly has enough knowledge to open multiple clone accounts so he can vote for himself. I don't think he is backward, which is probably not a PC thing to say, but even if he has these problems he cannot go around sending threats to people who comment adversely on his work. Where would this place be if we all did that whenever we didn't like a comment made on our work. Catlin

I'm not saying what he did is right, nor am I making excuses for the actions... Just saying perhaps there is an underlying cause for those said actions. I know myself, I won't speak for others, but i know I take certain things for granted...and often I dont' stop to think what I would be like without those things.... People with some conditions can be very bright in some areas, while severely disabled in others... And how each deals with those things makes then either succeed or fail.. For example... a blind person.... Usually, a person who cannot see, has a more accute sense of hearing and sometimes touch...as well as the other senses.... If that person chose to ignore all those other senses while in a depression over their condition, they would surely suffer... If however they chose to become more in tune with those other senses, they would do much better. This guy I know...with the AS.... He's really sweet once ya sit and talk to him...has the same feelings and the same emotions as we all do, although he has a harder time controlling them...He's considered disabled by the state in which he lives, but is very bright... He has a near photographic memory with things he reads...and sometimes conversations can be difficult...I am glad that I took the time to learn more about him... Now instead of being offended by something said, i look at why it's being said....usually is something that happened with another person that has him in a fluster, that inhibits his limited ability to control what is being said... Perhaps all it took was a comment for his self control to waiver... I'm not saying don't comment, I'm not teling anyone what to door not to do, nor am I expecting anyone to actually read my drivel... What "I" would do, rather then making a comment such as on the boat picture, that says, (making up a comment) "this image really dont' deserve to be in the hot 20, it's imported models on a basic beginner scene" I would say something very similar that i would give to an excellent piece of work by a "well known" more along the lines of, "this is a good start, i bet it would look fantastic with some plants here, or some birds there... maybe even a few more boats" but then again, I have been called nieve many a times... and have been proven to be quite the odd one many times as well... so take this for what you will....a rant, a rave, a story, a lesson, a pile of garbage... or just my thoughts...

JC, not disagreeing with you and you statement on comments is right on. Comments on a peice of art should be constructive. IMO BlackUnicorn should really try to control what he's posts before posting(perhaps he does but it's beyond him). He is aware of his condition whereas the majority of the people here aren't, so I hate to say this but the burden of understanding is in his court.

I admire your sensitivity Jen and I wouldn't want to go blast him for his art. I have discovered from being a member here that the best way to help with critisism is to point out the flaws and then give advice on what would make the image better. That kind of response tends to balance out making the critique neither bad nor good but helpful in opening the artists eyes to other posibilities. Please don't think I'm having a bash at you, I'm not, and I understand where your coming from. I just wish that this person could think more positively about what is being said to him and not to respond to people with threats, although perhaps he can't understand the difference between advice and a direct put down. Still friends 8) Catlin

lol course silly....hehehe Like I said, I babel on and on... lol but along with being odd and nieve, (LOL) I also have been knows to dig deep...I guess i'm th ekind of person that has to know WHY???? LOL When i was a kid, i used to take everything apart to see how it worked, and put it back together.... to this day, I still do, but now i wait till it's broke first...lol I guess i just dont' like to see anyone being bashed or trashed, without knwoing ALL the details... From what i've seen in his pm's, and posts here, he may not be able to understand the differences..and is immediately on the defensive about any responses he gets... hehehehhe (playing devils advocate) Now if it took more then 4 or 5 votes to get into the HOT20, we wouldn't have to worry about him gettin there? And I admit flat out, I rarely have time to go through all the gallery pages, heck I have a hard time keeping up with all these posts...lolol so I know i have no right to complain about how it works, if i dont' use it... (i think i've maybe looked at that list 5 times since i been coming here?) LOL Cat, maybe i shoulda been a philosper instead of an artist? hahahahah

Jen, you're a sweet and tender-hearted person, always so understanding. I am much the same way(or used to be) but if I see a rabid dog, I might feel sorry for it, but I sure as Hell am not gonna pet it, or make try to make friends with it.

I'm a new member and I am reading this discussion...I think that the same thing is going on in the beginners hot 20...I think we can learn a lot from comments .It's always nice to have good comments but it's nicer to improve your work by good honest comments....

I see a lot of people here on R'Osity giving "excellents" and good advice to people who say they are beginners. It's a matter of encouragement and acknowledgement for a good effort. If we stopped doing that, we would cease to have humanity. There may be a lot more "sympathy votes" than we realize going on here, too.

Personally, I'm all for encouraging people to develop with by rating them according to their skill level and providing glowing and helpful comments. As far as I know, though, the only way votes are seen is when something makes it into the hot 20. Voting for some one doesn't really encourage them to develop further. It simply raises a "developing artists" work to be on display as "exemplary work". If anything, it could discourage further development, in that "Hey! This got me into the Hot20, I've pretty much got it down pat now!" Just MHO though. I think still think that everyone that has an issue (and really everyone in the community) should just go through the gallery and vote for the images that they feel truely do belong in a gallery that represents both the abilities and merits of this tool as well as the skills and talent in the community. Have fun!

I personally don't mind sympathy votes as long as the votes and the comments encourage the artist to improve their work. But as has been said before, this particular artist has had these positive comments made to them and their work is the same now as it was at the start. Also this artist is in the habit of sending threatening IM's when they are annoyed by what someone has said in their comments. Threats of hacking your computer and of violence should not and will not be tolerated here, for one thing it is against the TOS to do such things. Violet, the same thing happens in many forums and basically there really is nothing that the admin can do about it without becoming intrusive. If this were the Poser forum for example this discussion would not be so civilized about these matters. When you've been here for a while janart you'll understand what the Hot 20 is and will understand the annoyance it creates when a person has numerous clone accounts which they use to vote for themselves. Catlin

I probably shouldn't say this, but, I have left comments on improving his work without further repercussions(watch, now I'll be a target)....;] After being in a personnel office and having to write assessment reviews on people I have learned a few key things, -before- pointing out what needs to be improved, -first- find something good to comment about, this keeps the person from going defensive on the outset, then gradually make known those areas/things that need improvement. You have to do this without saying the word 'you', like 'you should do this' or 'you need to do that' or 'your image/behavior should be'. Keep the comment specific to the area that needs improvement, 'the texture can be improved this way' or 'the model might benefit from a new texture to create interest' by doing this you don't make it personal, it's the image not the artist....and always kept your cool.... I guess it's not always 'what' you say but 'how' you say it. That said I'm waiting for BU to read my comments and then flame me...;P

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Well said Zhann, you are so right about the personal issue of it. It is like walking a tightrope when critisizing someones work. Some folks have thick skin and others don't. One should always be careful when someone hasn't specificaly said "Let me have it!" I for one love to post my Wips here, I still feel like a newbie and want as much constructive crits as I can get. But when someone doesn't ask for it, it becomes difficult to judge how the critism will sound to them. I actually liked the person in question's boat image, not enough to vote it in the top 20 but it seemed like an improvement to me. I liked the sparkley look that unantialising provided. I also think Jen was quite right, we don't know this person's background. Although, it isn't fair for them to vote themselves in or have friends do it, in the end its not hurting that many people and we do have the power to vote in those few that may not be making it in. So I agree with those before that have said "go forth and vote". I'll try to do it also but I have time constraints and have trouble just keeping up with the forum threads. And I think that anyone who wants to complain about the top20 quality after today had better be out there voting! Go Vote!

Catlin, I can't imagine janart (Jan) getting annoyed at anyone.

Julsil, after Jan's been here for a while the insanity of this place may drive her to it. lol 8)

Catlin, I second that!! lol

Still in there at #14 with 13 (THIRTEEN!) votes. Lame.