I don't know if it's just me.. it probably is. I've had Vicky since she was released.. and guess what I'm back to playing with posette.. Why do u ask.. first of all there's the speed thing.. rendering is slow, even posing v3 and changing the dials seams to take 4ever. (My computer is fast enough.. 1 gig memory.. athlon 2600). and then there's the pose injection. I'd like to tell Daz where they could inject that. it takes about 20 seconds to load anything up with v3. and then there's the fact that my pose directory is pretty usually these days because of v3 and m3.. in order to find mat poses.. I have to scroll down though pages of (! Daz v3 inject, ! Daz v3 remove).. oh yes Daz did have to choose the (!) which appears at the top of any list. why do I need to see that every time I look for a pose or a mat. It would have been so easy for Daz to use something like zz! inject.. it would have saved me so much time... and then theres vickys head.. is there like what, 5 million dials, that hardley move at all? because there's so much geometry in V3 head. way more than u need. (one of the many benifts of unimesh) .. and there's the market place.. There are hardly any original characters for v3. now what's up with That?. We've got some incredible texture makers out there, but as far as bodies go, it seams most merchants just spin a few dials.. and call it a character.. well thanks, I can do that myself... When posette and v2 where out, I was spending money on a characters... because there was a difference between one v2 versus an other... I find pretty much every v3 in the market place today.. has exactly the same amazon body.. What happened to all the great modelers out there? Jim Burton seams to be the only one left who is creating original bodies. So guys... give me some original stuff... and I'll start spending some money again.. Till then it's just me and posette... Nick

I think you need a new computer... Mine is only a Win98 with PIII850/512meg and she works great. As for "There are hardly any original characters for v3" - DUDE, come out from under that rock!! However, I do agree about the INJ/REM files, they really should have been incorporated into a new 'library' type, they are overrunning things in there! BUT as for not likeing the "!" and prefering "zz" instead: Rename Them, it's a basic function of all computers to rename files and folders...

"I think you need a new computer..." don't think so.. try this load "posette up select her head and spin 5 dials. to come up with a new face. load v3.. spin the same dials. first it will take you 5 minutes to find the dials you are looking for.. then it will take twice as long to spin them.. they don't spin as fast.. "DUDE, come out from under that rock!!" find me one orgianl body... i'm not talking about textures.. there are some truly amazing textures for v3. I'm talking about orgianl body shapes... not spin the dial bodies..

I agree with the bazillion folders for inj and remove not just the name so much but the shere amount of them. I mean seriously they could of just put them all in either one folder {top set being inject bottom remove} or ALL inj in one folder and ALL remove in one folder. it takes far far far to much space in the pose folder. {so much so I created another pose folder that is nothing BUT V3 and her mats and clothing mats and move it in and out as I use it} but, she does look ok, I am using her more and more not so much because I like her but because she has a little bit more ....realism about her. though she always seems abit ""heavey" to use. not as in she is a big girl{trust me I have no problem with that}I cant explain it she just seems abit more substantial then V2. and unfortunately I cant seem to get what I want out of her face. I have a v2 face I made that I saved that is just my favorite I wish so much I could get v3 to look like it. and just cant seem to do it no matter the hours spent tweeking her. I do understand what the person ment by no original charecters. If you go back and look through V2 in the merchants stuff you see everything from bug legged woman to some pretty bizzar things. while I know we have the cyber babes of the V3 world with cybernetic arms or legs...when I go looking for V3 things I {mostly} find...realism, goths, or feas. smattered with a few odd textures but all in all the bodies are just....well....bodies.it is like woman that just went to halloween parties and put on varied makeup and tattoos or odd clothing. it is like watching the victorias secret cataloge. {no pun intended} If I ws to creat a wish list... flowing robes. no not the cleavage bareing type really flowing layers of robes. a few odd morphs, brow ridges, boney figers, etc something that makes your eyes go O.O some pretty slipper style shoes with out miles of heal. like something like chinese slippers. real middle easter style cloths a burqa or proper veils. {in one pic I did I kind of made a burqa style head dress with a ninja mask and the rdna cowl but...} and also the middle eastern style jewelry{trust me if I could get modeling to work for me I would make them myself but...}Tralfaz has some piece that I have seen in works by tralfaz and yes they are amazing..wish more like it was available. a belly dance outfit that is not a penthouse sex dream version of what most think of as bellydance outfits O.O{close thing is a set for the starlette dress at daz} O.o seems this post got far longer then I was wishing lol. see what happens with to much free time on ones hands?

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I believe there were discussions about V3's memory usage when she first came out. If you have system restrictions, it might have been more worth your while to purchase V2 or Steph. Those 5 million dials offer a greater diversity of appearances for V3 over the original Vicki and posette. It does seem to be that your system as described should be able to handle V3. You might go back and make sure that your memory isn't being taken up by other programs. Personally, I think a bigger disappointment for this year was Cath's falling out with DAZ which lead to her not releasing the Bryan texture for M3. That and Anton leaving DAZ.

I like V3 and M3. The increased realism is worth the slower load times for me. Yes, there are more dials to scroll through, but you don't have to inject them ALL. You can inject only the ones you want. And you can use DialCleaner to remove the ones you aren't using, if you're already injected too many. The zillions of INJ/REM folders are cumbersome, but if you give V3 and M3 each a runtime of their own, that eliminates a lot of that hassle.

If you want original bodies AND textures try dropping by ZetaStudios 3D. I have three of her(?) characters and they are awesome. I like the fact that they are modeled (morphed) after realistic looking people instead of looking like porn stars. As for V3 I have dual processors and 4 gig, I can handle just about anything. But I seriously agree with you on the file hierarchy. Its not so much their use of the exclamation symbol as it is the endless folders you have to scroll through to get to what you want. Even so, you pretty much use a set number of dials and learn fast enough where to find them so it's not too bad. Finally, if your not using a dial, just remove it. You can delete morph dials your not using to make the program run more efficiently. Don't need to do it much myself but there's a tut around here somewhere about it.

I would argue that although loads of dials potentially means loads of faces, most the ones I see in the Gallery and elsewhere are so immediately recognisable as Vicky3 that I don;t think many people bother to twirl 'em much!

Yes... I do agree.. V3 offers so much more realism.. no doubt about that. You can achieve some incredible results.. with her. coupled with some awesome textures.. like the ones mentioned at zs3d.... But...... is she as much fun as posette? do your selves a favor download... Jim Burtons.. posette 2003 (free) download vickybuster texture also free.. and then the renderupgrade.. guess what also free... download some free hair... play with it for about 30 minutes... and then tell me... which model is more fun to play with..

sorry! forgot nudity flag

As said before. We need a Posette 2004. New mesh. Better breasts, shorter thights, but , please , do not change the grouping. Then let Jim Burton play with her to get the joints right( as he did a great job on Posette 2003. Put it all for free. And a lot of us will smile ..... I don't like those pre-chew dial-up characters either. Judy , like V3, are overkill.... too is too.... Tony, still having a ball on modifying the p4-Lo figure(for almost two years now, and still not perfect) Tony PS : AMD 1000, 396 MB RAM, never had a problem with P5, posering since P1

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Hmmm: everyone needs a new computer for V3. I'm excepting donations for a system with 4 gigs of memory, a 4 ghz P4, dvd recorder, 300 gig hard drive, the new 7.1 audigy 2 zs sound card by soundblaster, a hdtv decoder tuner card, and a 17" wide screen flat screen. Anything from 20's on up will be fine. LOL

well, i like both V2 and V3, but yes i have to agree V3 is a bit waring to the old pc, some of her clothes are extemly poser hungery! also have to agree on the INJ/REM folders, there are soooo many for V3, pain in b.u.m really, lol. but alas we all have our favs, and i do dote on both V2 and V3, but if your willing to do long hrad searches out there, there is amazing stuff for both, and if your willing to tweak V2 clothes for V3 it does work! my pc is built especially for rendering perposes anyway, but it does get slow when ever i do do V3 images, which kinda bothers my old man (who built it) saying it shouldnt really do it anyhoo! but, to peeps out there who think V3 is a dissapointment, she really iasnt, she is really cool, i cant wait for when V4 ever comes out, just to see what she can or can not do, but i am looking way way way into the future for this one! anyhoo il shurup now, and crawl back into my cave!

In the words of DarkStarRising:
"Sadness within sadness,
Darkness within darkness,
a shadow of a form lays upon the floor,
looking at herself
looking at her own shadows of loneliness"

"I do agree about the INJ/REM files, they really should have been incorporated into a new 'library' type, they are overrunning things in there!" Poser 4 and 5 only recognize the existing libraries, DAZ couldn't have done anything about that. Only the people coding Poser can create a more open library structure. IMO, the INJ/REM poses are an excellent answer to the dilema of how to create a more advanced, versatile character that can still be used under Poser's limitations.

I never much liked Posette. I have no idea where to DL Posette 2003; if I did, I might give her a try. But I have a feeling I wouldn't find her as much fun to play with as V3 and M3. I don't "get" Koshini, Neftoon Gal, Alexa, etc., either. DAZ gave me Sara for free, and I've yet to even install her. (I never liked playing with Barbie dolls when I was a kid, either.) I want a mesh that can give me a recognizable likeness. I want MORE dials, not fewer. (And I'm willing to pay for 'em, in anyone wants to market a package... ;-) One thing I like about Judy and Don that I wish DAZ would copy: the way the dials are grouped into collapsible "folders." That makes finding the dial you want so much easier!

Forgot to mention my biggest disappointment of the year: CL's announcement that we have to wait for Poser 6 to get a stable, working-as-advertised Poser 5.

As for the Inject Morph method I agree --more cumbersome than useful and a great devourer of time!... On what "Realism" is concerned (on V3) I have my objections. I worked with all three Victorias (and much less with Stephanie) and although V2 was a definitive improvement over V1, V3 did not make the big difference that we all had expected (same as M3 isn't any dramatic improvement over M2 --always on what realism is concerned). In V2 the worse flaws, in my opinion, were the impossible to fix traps and the plainly horrible lats. V3 came out with corrected traps but the lats are still a disaster. V3 face is difficult to alter without the help from textures and all "cosmetic operations" on her are time consuming. Her body is more flexible to handle and easier to pose than V2, but "realism" still remains a futuristic dream. But the worse problem in all Millennium characters are the JOINTS. They all look fine in the zero pose, but when you try to put some action into their limbs... all hell breaks loose! (I should know for I'm working on a sports project actually and use almost exclusively V3 models). Try to raise her arms above her head and you'll see what I mean. In fact the only way to achieve a "realistic" pose in this position is to compromise, "cheating" on reality by creating a pose that, with the help of lights and cameras "appears" to be realistic (but it isn't). The legs suffer from the same limitations. Raising the thighs above a certain point and bending the shins too far back (as in a kneeling position) would be looking for trouble. Again you can cheat here up to a point but the sure thing is that you'll finally end up post-working in Photoshop to mend things up. In my view we cannot expect "realism" without a new mesh that takes into consideration the joints problem and takes steps to correct it. After this is done the muscularity issue should be addressed and so on and so forth. Right now, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are no 3D models capable of achieving "realism" by themselves --that is without the help of texturing, lights, cameras and post-work.

"That's another fine mess you got me in to!" -- Oliver Hardy

my absolute favorite ! at the beginning of files and file names. I wrote a program that automatically removes all that crap from v3..but the bad thing is, every time they release an update..I have to re-install her because it looks for those. shrug I really wish there was like a law that prohibited the use of ! or spaces as the first character. Ya reckon we can get one passed? lol BT

I think the problem with the joints is not with the figures but with Poser itself. Maybe DAZ Studio handles joints differently... Hey, I can dream. :-)

Also agree on the ! some folks put before the folder names. I've renamed many of my pose, prop, and character folders by removing the exclamation points-- I don't bother changing the geometry or texture files since they don't appear in the selection menus (with Poser 4 anyway). Then I placed numbers at the beginning of the names to bring those items I use the most near the top.

I don't have any problems coming with original V3 characters.

I don't think posette's face could every look this good, no matter how many dails you turn.

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Here's the link for Posette2003. I honestly had not known about her until this thread. Thanks, alamanos! ;-)

I agree with Grey Cat, it sure seems easier for me to come up with original faces and bodies with V3 than with the older Victorias or Posette. If anything, M3 was more of a disappointment than V3, although he's starting to get better as more artists support him. SnowS

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Thank you Snow..M3 was a huge disappointment

It's got to be M3 that was a bigger disappointment. I have to agree with dirk and snow.

Hi nice face grey cat but it's the eyes...those eyes..ose ey........zzzzzz. sorry 'bout that hypnotised by beauty! try to get rid of the stare a bit. I like V3 (but then i've no other v's to compare with her) I will admit that I prefere possette's body shape to what I have seen of v2. and yes those !!! pose files are annoying thinking of getting pboost after Christmas to sort these out. Dave

expressionless faces... that's my biggest disappointment any time... yeah, and M3 (so far, the bishonen pack might change my mind)

Maybe it's just me, but in the final renders, I couldn's spot any difference between V2 and V3. Both look great with good lights and textures, both look crappy with bad light and bad textures. I don't own either of them, so maybe there's a difference in handling, but I couldn't spot any difference in the results.

The first thing I did with V3 was.... go through the morphs in explorer and delete the ones I knew I wouldnt need. Then I loaded Poser and loaded V3 into the work area. Then one at a time injected each morph I needed. Once that was done, I just saved the edited V3 character as "My V3". Now when I start poser, I load "MyV3" and I get the geometry and all the morphs I need in one single click. As for the body. I gotta say, with the number of morphs and possible mixes, its easy to mkae your own unique body type. The problem we see in a lot of galleries is lack of imagineation. Everyone is fixated on the same kinda body types... The face is also nicely adiquate, although some new "face" morphs would be nice. But right now, I can do nicely by toying with the dials and then saving the result as a pose file. I will agree, when I first loaded V3, I was horrified! "Holy crap!" I thought "Thats it?" Then I discovered the injections, "Okay, so uh, I gotta inject these EVERY time I wana use them!?"... I discused my solution to that above. Now, Im likeing V3 very much. I just have to stop screwing with Cinema4D long enough to make myself some origonal characters... :-)

"I don't think posette's face could every look this good, no matter how many dails you turn. " Hey, what hair is that???? Its awsome!? Hey, if you like Possette, why not try Eve? Okay, so sodding around with clothes can be time consuming, but Eve gives a better look than possette (more geometry... slightly)

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thats the kozaburo kyoko hair fraggle...you can get it at this link

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V3 is fantastic.

M3, definitely. Frigging lantern jawed big jessie. ;)

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I didn't mean to sound like I DON'T like M3 at all, he just wasn't what a lot of people expected. I wish someone would create a hybrid with M3's head on an M2 body and USE M2 TEXTURES...that would be a good start towards making him more useful for those of us who liked Mike 2. I'm very happy with V3 though, and I really like the INJ system too. I think Mike 3 will slowly improve as more clothing and textures become available for him, and we won't have as much to complain about. :) SnowS

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The many faces of Vicki3... Larger version at the link.  I used V3 on a 400mhz Mac with about 800 RAM. She was fine. I just injected what I needed, saved that character and went from there. You can also consolidate the !Daz folders if you want.

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"I don't think posette's face could every look this good, no matter how many dails you turn. i agree maybe not as good... but with proper lighting and a good texture... she comes kind of close... the above render took about 40 seconds to render in p4.. v3 would take about 4 minutes... (There are about 33 lights with shadow)in this render..

"i agree maybe not as good... but with proper lighting and a good texture... she comes kind of close..." Nah, I respectfully disagree. The render is good, but Posettes weird eyes and that horrible nose just don't cut it for me.

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I have V3 and seldom use her. For me it was not a good investment as much as all the things cost that are needed to operate her. By the time I fight Inject/Detect/Reject/Rem and Dial This/Dial That/'Crap'!/Reset/Back Up 10 Yards and Punt...I am out of patience and ready to load a V2 or Posette up and have some fun. I speak strictly from a person in a hurry to create a picture, not someone seeking the most camera realistic figure possible in an exotic setting. For what she costs I could have almost upgraded my computer to handle whatever the next generation of over-inflated models happens to be. Other than all of this rambling...some real beautiful work is possible with her....She is just not my type of woman.

Grey_cat: face is a bit disturbing man.....

well, posette is great, such as v3, i most use v3 but yesterday i got steph, i think steph is a "middle"between posette and vicky, it is fast rendeing and she has a great face, try steph with mec4d free textures, it is soo realistic.

I vote M3( ACKKK!!!!) Im just thankful DAZ gave us Scifi- warlords fans the freak

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Why not make yourself a simple script to inject all the morphs you want in one go? Shouldnt take much, and will save minutes. Possette, makes a nice "crowd" character. Im running on 400Meg on an AMD 1.33 Athlon (at 1.4) Usualy, if I need a crowd, I will run my render with just the Possettes, and then do a second render with V3 and merge the two. MY Biggest dissapointment of 2003..... Easy, not enough sex!!... (but i think theres still enough time to change that hehehe)

biggert; Different coloring, hint of a smile, less disturbing.

Grey_cat, that's a lovely natural looking face, with a realistic amount of jowl sag. And, what a lovely skin tone. Somewhat assymetric, too. That adds to the realism.

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I'm one of the rare crazy people who bought V3 after M3, so by contrast V3 has never been a disappointment. :-) I think very highly of M3 and don't regret spending a single penny or moment on M3, but I find working with it to be frustrating in some ways, whereas working with V3 is almost always a pleasure. There's something about the way that M3's limbs fit together at the joints (or don't) which is jarring. IMHO V3's overall symmetry is more graceful and unified than M3's, and I'm not referring to the differences between male and female physiques per se. The Freak, OTOH, was a totally fun surprise. For me M3 was only a mild disappointment, the pros outweighing the cons. Love that Victoria 3.

You know I've seen a lot of great renders on both sides of this issue. I guess it's all in what you like. Truth is opinions are like *ssholes, everybodies got one. I haven't worked much with Posette because I've always been fawning over V3. But now that I see some of the cool renders I think I'll tinker a little. But my preference for now still leans toward V3 simply because with the head and body morph packs you can get nearly anything you want from Vickie. Just my *sshole...Uhhh I mean opinion

IMO, M3 isn't really all that bad. M3 is good for some things, and...

Well, Possette is nice, and so is V3. They both have a place and a purpose. Hammer for nails, and screwdriver for screws. Both have their place and purpose. My vote for biggest disappointment is still with P5. It's much improved since it came out, but still not up to what was promised. Depending on D|S, it may be quite some time before CL manages to redeem themselves for that one... ~DM

M2 is good for others. 'nuff said

"It's got to be M3 that was a bigger disappointment." Hmm i don't know I rather like him

I wouldn't say V3 is a big disappointment. I've seen some seriously good looking V3's out there. I do feel your pain and your frustration. V3 is very versatile if you have the patience to treak her. She'a a bit heavy for most machines, especially when you are using P5. I think the problem is more with P5 rather than V3. I've render V3 pretty succesfully with P4 Propack. She doesn't really look that bad, even if you are just spinning the injected dials. It beats creating magnets. As for posette, I still use her from time to time, for multiple characters scene. I guess with a little elbow grease and patience, anyone can make a beauty queen out of V3. JV :o)

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I'm glad I read this thread before spending the money for Vicki. Besides being "fat" she's a bully, too ;-)

I don't mind any of the V's. Or the M's. Or the P's, or the S's. Some are good for one thing, others are good for another. The thing that annoyed me about V3 amd M3 are the inj / rem poses, the fact that they were seperate from the model and the way they clutter stuff up. Considering that Daz kind of doesn't really support P5, and the fact that P4 has a what - 256 folders? - limitation of mat poses etc... Way to clutter that up. And yup, I did exactly the same thing. Loaded up V3, loaded the dials, then saved her as V3 All Inj. That's the one I load. Now I'll probably go and consolidate those ! folders some time. Yeah... hmm... been saying that for ages now lol.

Silke

I think V3 is a pretty good figure - there is a lot of flexability in the dial system. I can't say that the Injection stuff bothered me any - I loaded her up when I got her, Injected all the morphs and saved her that way. I really never bother using a version other than that one. Biggest dissapointment of 2003? Spending so long listenting to people STILL complain about Poser5. Then again, I am one of those who it seems to work for :)

You can move the folders in the Pose section.. I have move then like this... I went into C:Curious Labs/Poser 5/runtime/library/Pose I made a folder and named it !V3 Morph Folder and i moved all the ING and REM folders into there.. and so I did the same with M3.. its not too hard to figure out and im no rocket scientist. Pose: !V3 Morphs Folder !M3 Morphs Folder and it will be always on top unless there a !(any letter before M or V) lol

All those pose folders are even less fun with P4 where one runtime is all you have. I'm beginning to see merchants creating folders beginning !! to get higher up than the Daz ones. This has to stop.

M3... big dissapointment. Waited forever.. finally released.. didn't even bother to purchase him.

The disappointment with M3 was that the head pack cost as much as the one for V3 but had less morphs. I won't say M3 was a big disappointment overall if you are willing to make different types of characters than with M2.