Hello All.

I am seeking a general opinion on which you consider the better program. Paint Shop Pro is cheaper but may not have as many features as PhotoShop. Which would you recommend for creating textures for clothing, not human textures.

Any civil input would be appriciated.
DrOsborn

PSP works just fine for me. That's just MVHO though ... ... I could be wrong. ( ... but it ain't likely ... heh heh ... ) cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

depends on how much you want to invest. I prefer PS as I've been using it longer and I get better results. Also, another really good one to check out is Photo Impact. Depending on what I want to do, I hop between the 2, PI is very good.

PSP works fine for me too.(: I also like and use PhotoImpact8.....each has something that it does better then the other, but I have to say I like and use them, both, equally.

I've used Paint Shop Pro 6, 7 and now 8 and I really like it. The interface is easy to learn, you can do a lot with it, it has a lot of it's own filters, plus you can use pretty much any other filters with it; even ones for Photoshop. You can do masks, different brushes, cloning, pictures tubes, etc. Now the Disclaimer...I've never used Photoshop, so I really can't compare the two as far as features, etc. But, being a user of Paint Shop Pro, I am really happy with it.

Paint shop pro 8 is great it is at least as good as photoshop and can use some photoshop plugins. The undo is much better in Paint shop pro...

Photoshop is the "industry standard" - but if that's not important to you, PSP will do just as good a job. I've used it since version 3 or so, and I wouldn't change.

I've been using PSP7 for a while now, thought about upgrading to 8. I've used PS, though it seems to have more capabilities, PSP has always been able to do what I need. I think PSP is a little easier to learn, I like the interface more than that of PS.

Photoshop is a high end professional image manipulation/photo editing and paint package. Paint Shop Pro is great if you can't afford Photoshop. I've used both. Love Photoshop, would rather stick needles in my eyes than use PSP.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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lol I love Photoshop. It's great to have both Painter & Photoshop. Paint Shop Pro was OK last time I tried it.

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Hey Doc, FYI - There are some enlightening customer reviews of Photoshop at Amazon.com that you might be interested in reading. cheers, (the "other" Doc) dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Paint Shop Pro improves with every upgrade. It's easy to use, the company is sensitive to customer feedback, and the product just keeps getting better. Never used Photoshop, so I can't make a comparison, but I've been using Paint Shop Pro since Version 4 (I think) and it's never failed me.

I've used Photoshop since version 3. It is a very capable program. Even now I am finding new ways to use the program. I've also purchased Painter 8. The new painter interface is so similar to the photoshop 7 interface. I've looked at Paint Shop Pro, but never got the hang of it. Maybe because it takes me awhile to get use to new interfaces. I don't mean to say that paintshop pro is a bad program. It can do the job pretty well and costs 6 times less than photoshop. I would say if money is no object, or if you are going to pursue a profesionnal graphics career in the future, go with Photoshop. If you only use these programs as a hobby and are on a limited budget, Paintshop pro is the better choice. JV :o)

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I prefer Photoshop, but then I'd prefer rubies to garnets. Because of my budget, I have garnet jewelry. If money is not an issue, I'd go with PS I find it to more versatile and more of a standard in the art world. However if you can't then PSP is very good. BTW, there is a demo available of Photoshop CS available over at Adobe that's good for 30 days!

when I first started with creating textures for poser I used Adobe photodeluxe (and still do quite a bit) I got it free with my printer, no longer have the printer but kept the disk just for photodeluxe. Very simple to use, although some features are hidden.. I have since found photoshop 6 on a clearance rack and use it a bit, like it better than PSP. (which I had an older version of, haven't used the current version)

I will merely echo what others have said --

If you can afford it, no question -- Photoshop.

Another matter to keep in mind: Photoshop can involve a steep learning curve.

As others have mentioned, Photoshop is the choice of almost all "professionals" in the graphics field. I think this says something in and of itself.

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lol I remember using Aldus Superpaint without any layers... Photoshop still surprises me with what it can do. Over a decade using it and I still have TONS to learn. But it's fun. Especially with filters and the new cool brushes. :)

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Many Caly and I thought I was bad with Aldus PhotoStyler! LOL Marque

Er...I meant man Caly, lol Sent this kbd to skooool and it still misses da woids! Marque

Ive been using PSP for 4 years now,I have PSP7 & 8...Yesterday I got Adobe PhotoShop7 and just from playing with it,think it beats PSP hands down.

I've used Paint Shop Pro since version 3. Three years ago, a Photoshop LE came bundled with my new digital camera. I thought "Great! I can move over to the industry standard app." I hated it. Why? It wasn't what I was used to using. With PSP 8, there are now very few differences between the programs. You can do anything in PSP you can do in PS, though the implementation may be slightly different. Layers, CMYK separation, tablet/brush settings etc. And really, who cares about an "industry standard" when it comes to the application? What matters is the final image that comes out of it. Anything else is just snobbery, in my opinion. I say, if you've been using one program or the other, buy that app... save yourself the headache of learning a new application. If you haven't used either one before, I find that Paint Shop Pro is not only cheaper, it's more intuitive to use right out of the gate. Plus their customer service is very friendly and helpful! That's always a plus.

Paint Shop Pro.

FlyByNight

I have and use both PS 6 & PSP 6 & 7..I tend to use PSP much more because it's not so resource intensive and it does a lot of what PS does...oh it also has vectors which help in creating nice smooth curves for clothing textures. :D PSP8 does have a really nice mesh warp tool that's similar to PS's liquify...

If you plan to do only hobby texturing by all means PSP will do fine and will cost you less. But if you are in any way shape or form interested in professionnal graphics you will not beat Photoshop, it is the industry standard, a very deep and powerful program. A bit of a learning curve, but if you go with it I recommend the Adobe classroom in a book for Photoshop which will get you up to speed fast enough. Poser is fun...Photoshop is fascinating.

Dominique Digital Cats Media

Also consider photoshop elements. I used a free copy of that for a while, then upgraded to the full version. Played with PSP, but never cared for it that much. Elements is similar in price to PSP, but if you ever decide to to full photoshop, the learning curve will be easier. Another thing to consider: Photoshop would look better on a resume than PSP...

i use both :O)

Hey PandaPride, Which do you prefer ... for what app ... ... and why. (kin ya do it in 25 werds er less?) ;=] cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I've used PhotoShop for years. Before that I had PaintShop, and found it a bit confusing. I happened across a recent version of PaintShop, and fiddled with it a bit before giving up. I just don't find PaintShop to be as easy to learn as PhotoSHop.

Most graphics shops would be looking at your Photoshop experience -- along with Quark and some others. I've never seen Paint Shop Pro experience mentioned as a job requirement. Some shop or other might require PSP -- but I've never seen this. However, Photoshop is the standard.

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I have PSP and Photoshop Elements but I always use Paint Shop Pro.

I think the difference is that 95% of Paint Shop Pro users bought it and that 95% of Photoshop users have a pirated version. Photoshop is 695,00$ in Canada and PaintShop Pro v8 is only 149,00$. Sorry but I can't afford a sofware of that price if I can have one for 1/4 the price. It is the same thing with 3D modeling software. I don't have the money to buy 3D Studio Max or Lightwave, so I'm working with Wings 3D and the Carrara Studio 1,1 (free with a magazine). And with practice, you can do what you want with Paint Shop Pro. That's my 2 cents (in Canadian money).

I picked up my copy of Photoshop on eBay for 20. Best money I've ever spent on there. I used to love PSP but PS beats it hands down.

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I've used Photoshop since version 2.5. Tried PSP a couple of times along the way, but it always seemed to be behind the current version of PS. I haven't tried a recent version. I get the feeling that PSP basically adds whatever features it can that the current PS version has, so PS is the innovator and PSP is playing catch-up. On the other hand PS is expensive, so PSP is perhaps a better value for the money. And I might be a bit biased since I'm the forum host for Adobe's GoLive Windows forum at adobeforums.com (g)

You can get Photoshop pretty cheaply if you take advantage of sidegrades or eBay. Once you get a version legally you can upgrade it rather cheaply.

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I've used PSP for ever... reciently bought PS7 and love it. I still use both :o) Honestly, for the price, I think PSP is pretty darn comparable to PS. PSP can do most anything PS can, IMO. :-)

PS7...healing brush...nuff said

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

PSP - clone brush... does pretty much the same thing ;-)

Think of it this way: Buy Photoshop, or buy PSP AND a 3D modeling or rendering program.

PS7's healing brush is more of a blending tool than a cloning tool. It's great for removing "flaws," such as blemishes, while preserving texture. PS7 also has a clone tool, which simply duplicates another spot on the image. Would that help you making clothing textures? probably not...

Somewhat OT but ...

Many thousands of years ago ...
(in a galaxy far, far away)
... I had a s/w pgm called "Photfinish" made by "ZSoft."
(circa 1992 I think)

It had a tool and I believe it was called "waterdropper" that would allow you to click on a pixel (area) and the colors would "bleed" outward and blend with the surrounding pixels with no perceptable sharp edges, i.e., no radical color changes between adjacent pixels.

The cursor did NOT have to be moved for the "bleeding" effect to slowly move outwards from the cursor.

The longer you held down the mouse button, the farther out from the center of the cursor the blending effect would be produced.

It produced the same effect as a drop of water placed on a normal ink printed picture on paper.

Does anyone know if this kind of tool is avalable in any of the graphics software available today?

Thanks for any information you might have about this.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

i tried PS few times, and the interface/layout puzzled me; but it may be because i had bad habits at another software. PSP was simple to use and interesting, but since 7th version, it requires IE5 or 6 to be present in order to install itself. Such a behavior (a paint software needing a internet browser, a flawy and unsecure one not to mention) put it directly into the forgettable things... if you are not afraid, you can try gimp; big communauty for support, alien interface but... depending on what you want to do (postwork/photo edition or cell drawing and such) you may try pixia, strange but has interesting features (such as gonta's filter engine, if you are good at math) i heard once about anotehr software that was strange but interesting: satori photo xl; never tried so far, but a friend was enthousiast about it.

I've used PSP since v 1 or 2 when it was little more than a file format conversion utility for Win 3.1 and I've been a fan ever since, although I haven't upgraded to v8 yet. After reading and trying tons of Photoshop tutorials on the web, I've only found a few things I can't do: PS 7's new brushes (scatter, etc.), displacement warp filter, and stroke path. Everything else has a way to do it, although there may be an extra step or two. For example light effects are apparently better in PS as they produce a shaded effect whereas I have to do a separate mask/dropshadow step to get the effect in PSP. Also PSP brushes are limited in size to 256x256, but greyscale tube brushes and layers can get you the desired effect.

The better program? Photoshop CS. In terms of raw ability it makes PSP run home to momy and it makes the Gimp look like the crazy uncle in the attic you don't introduct to company. But that is in terms of >absolute< ability. You may never actually need all that. I would definitely run Photoshop elements (inexpensive) before PSP or the Gimp, but if you don't do that I would run PSP before the gimp :) So, in order... Photoshop CS Photoshop 7 Photoshop Elements PSP The GIMP

I use Canvas, by Deneba Here's why: Takes photoshop plugins Great painting environment, probably 90%+ of PS. But also: full-blown vector graphic "side". A beautiful facility for making animated gifs. Imports and saves out to many many formats including PS and Flash, .pdf also and .avi/.mov (quicktime) for animations. Terific for page layout. Imagemapping for HTML? You will be in heaven with Canvas. (Attach URLs to objects, Canvas generates full webpage with style sheets, and also calculates coordinates for imagemaping!) For painting, naturally it has sized and custom brushes, airbrushes, sharpen, blur, desaturate, and many other PS-like features too numerous to list. And yes, it has that tool Dr. Geep was looking for (see next post) review: http://www.keystonemac.com/canvas9review.html Mac and Win Price? Canvas 9 $349 at mfg www.deneba.com Canvas 8 street price as low as $199 You can find Canvas 7 even lower. Trial and academic versions avail. ::::: Opera :::::

dr geep: I'm going to partially take back my statement in my previous post. I can't find one tool the does exactly what you are looking for in Canvas, acting like out-spreading water from one pixel color. Canvas has a tool, called the blur tool. You can set the pixel diameter affected by selecting a 'brush' size, you can call 'pressure' into play if you have a pressure sensitive imput device. If you hold down the mouse, the tool will continue to 'blur', in place, over time, until you let go or it reaches a user-controled 'fade diameter'. I looks like water spreading, but does not spread the color of one pixel outwards. I use it as a 'traveling anti-alias tool' by blowing up to as much as 3200% and dragging/painting along the interface between two contrasting boundaries. It melts them together beautifully. ::::: Opera :::::

Opera, I shall look into it. Thanks for the information. cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I've been using PSP since version 1. I've been using Photoshop since version 4. I prefer Photoshop on a daily basis because it best suits my work flow, I love some of the features (layer styles, the new brush capabilities, Photoshop actions), but I still have and use PSP 8 sometimes for some of the features it offers (that new mesh manipulation that was in version 8 is WONDERFUL). Which is "better"? Well, it depends on what you do. ;-) I'd say download the demo version of PSP and play with it a while and see how it goes for you. If you like it, get the full version. There are loads of tutorials for it out there, and it is a very solid, usable program. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

SamTherapy....."Love Photoshop, would rather stick needles in my eyes than use PSP"

That about sums it up!

soulhuntre is right on the money too.

I've used Photoshop since before there WAS a Photoshop. Does anyone remember ColorStudio? Or Mac Paint? Yeeeeeesh I'm old!

Adobe products usually hands down beat the pants off of anything else, for professional work. They cost more, but they are worth every penny...it's like comparing a Yugo to a BMW, IMHO.

But...for most simple things, or if you are not professional, then use the others. They CAN get the job done.

But, if you want a job in the industry...better go with Photoshop or you won't even get your foot in the door. If I were looking to hire someone and they didn't know Photoshop there'd be no way I could even consider them.

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Riddokun; You can beat the IE check stupidity. -ALL- those installers are checking for is the IE registry key at the top of the registry stack. I don't know if it is still there, but at www.litepc.com, Shane brooks had an .ini file that would re-insert that key after you did a 98lite install, and it fooled the 'Must haves'. All you lose is the html help files, so no big loss there. And being a PSP user for a few versions, no one seems to have mentioned that many of the PS plugins work just fine with PSP. I don't know of anyone who has tried all of them, but you can get a lot of that functionality (the issue is which plugin -version- is compatible...every PS release changes little things, and you can get bitten).

Started with psp7 and now have 8 too. I have photoshop 7 and am getting the hang of it. It takes both for me to do post work. 2 programs I bought and hardley ever use is Painter6 and Deep Paint. both expensive. I like the tubes, and the disk I bought jungle2D or 3-D. Great stuff.

Love is Grandchildren.

I use paint shop pro 5 for drawing, one of the problems with photoshop is that there is only a one step undo. Make two mistakes in a row and you have to start again.

One step undo in Photoshop? You're joking. Take a look at the History pallette. You can set the amount of steps PS can memorize, and you can undo or restore from any point within that range.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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PS: I resent the remark about Photoshop owners using pirated software. My copy was bought for my by my former employer. They bought every artist a personal licence, and we were allowed to keep them as part of our severance package.

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Geep - not exactly what you want, but take a look at (currently) Corel Painter - try the Just Add Water blender.

Hi RHaseltine, Thanks for the info ... I'll go take a look. cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

paint shop pro has a great soften tool it is part of the retouch brush. You can vary the intensity by changing the brush step value. It is great for smoothing areas of textures.

"But, if you want a job in the industry...better go with Photoshop or you won't even get your foot in the door. If I were looking to hire someone and they didn't know Photoshop there'd be no way I could even consider them." This is what I'm talking about... it's elitist and ridiculous. It's like saying you'd never buy a painting from a particular artist because they use acrylic brushes instead of sable hair brushes. Apparently a portfolio doesn't mean anything. PSP opens PS files, has all the same features now, so it's not an inter-office compatibility problem, so what's the issue? I just don't get it. If the quality of work is good, how they got there shouldn't matter. ** waving a big sign that says "this is not a flame, just bafflement" **

The thing is PSP does not have all of the features of Photoshop, especially of the CS version. Photoshop with the integrated ImageReady can make web-site creation a breeze. Also, the new CS interconnectivity between Adobe products can really streamline and enhance work. I've looked for work. Take a peek at say, Monster.com at Graphics job requirements. They usually require Photoshop and or Quark, though now Adobe InDesign is being required for some.

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Well...it's not an elitest thing at all...its about raw power. And about a long-time industry standard, designed by color professionals for a specific industry. It's about stability across a wide platform.

Color correction and press work is a VERY specific science. When you have a $50,000 job on the press, you DO NOT want something to screw up because your program was not designed to handle it. Or because your printer is unfamiliar with it. That's what Photoshop is designed for, which is why the industry swears by it. The main issue here is the quality of color management and calibration across the industy.

I couldn't hire anyone with ONLY PSP experience, because I would have to re-train them number one, AND I wouldn't have the software as a standard in my shop, number two.

I've never tried opening a huge file in PSP, but some of my latest work is going at the rate of 425 MB for a single 2 page spread. Photoshop CS doesn't even blink. It does slow down a bit if my HD is full, though. And Caly is right, Adobe products are designed as a suite, to work seamlessly with each other and speed up workflow. If I had to use PSP and Word to do my work, I'd have quit long ago, simply because they don't have the proper horsepower/design for what I do. Jasc has some neat features....it can do a lot of cute things Photoshop doesn't do automatically, but for professional work, one wants the total control and DOESN'T want the program thinking FOR you.

I mean no offense here, but I've been doing this work for 20 years now. If something works...it works. It's not as simlpe as the hairs in a brush. It's entire algorithms that manage your color space and determine how ink goes on paper at quite high prices for press runs. Photoshop masters in color correction and manipulation are paid upwards of $100 an hour...

For the price, yes..PSP is outstanding, for what it does. For rock solid performance...my vote still goes to Photoshop..

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Photoshop is the industry standard, and if you hope to move on as a professional artist, thats where you should concentrate. Also, it is the leader in graphics editing technology ... PSP lags behind be several versions on most things. Also PSP is aimed at the Hobby market and that is quite noticeable by the interface and the lack of serious tools and emphasis on novelty items. The four basic tools I use on every single piece that I make are not available in PSP. Why? good question. Not cute enough I think. I was more than happy to delete it from my system after reviewing it. I'll stick with Photoshop very happily.

Hi Lyrra,

re: " ... The four basic tools I use on every single piece ... "

What are the tools to which you refer?

I just ordered Photoshop CS and am looking forward to comparing it to PSP which, so far, has served my purpose very well.

I don't need it to do any professional work but my curiousity finally got the better of me. ;=]

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

If your doing small freelance jobs for folks I doubt they care what you use. But if someone was doing work for me freelance it woudl have to be in Photoshop. Thats not about elitism... it's about workflow and compatability. I simply don;t have the time to risk a difference in how PS and PS handle color spaces, press serations or any of the rest of it. Besides, I doubt seriously PSP has all the same features - especially with the new features in CS... but let's jsut talk 7.0. Does PS do all the blending modes? handle the large file sizes? No reason to get all upset about this - you just need to realize that above a certain level the tools you use MATTER... and it is rare that a company needs/wants you so bad they will re-train you.

I see a lot of people here talking about "industry standard". Remember that Photoshop might be the industry standard in the US, but in Europe CorelDraw is also an industry standard. CorelDraw has a few features that Photoshop doesn't have, and includes many things like OCR, *.pdf creation, the ability to do layout in the QuarkExpress formatt, as well as including some 3D abilities and a subset called R.A.V.E. which can create flash animations.

If you mean layer blending modes, you'd have to tell me if this is all of them. We've had these layer blending modes for two or three versions at least, which is when I discovered them and their uses. It's possible they were around longer and I was oblivious. If you're referring to blending brushes, such as dodge, burn, etc. then yes, we have those as well. I'd have to see the "healing brush" someone referred to in action to know whether we have anything that serves the same function in PSP. We do have several scratch-removal filters and smudge/blending brushes. As far as streamlining for web site creation, while PSP doesn't directly export to an HTML suite, that's to be expected when it's not the same brand name. We do have optimizers for typical web image file types, slicing tools, and mapping tools. I don't know what size file you consider large, but I've handled 2200 by 1700 pixel images with few problems... the filters may take an extra second to process. I find that type of thing to be hardware dependant though. Hope that answers a question or two.

They both have their uses, Just depends how much you're willing to spend, especially if it's just a hobby. But if you're going to do Professional work you generally need to have Photoshop. Photoshop CS has an image size limit of 300,000 X 300,000 pixels and 56 channels per file. Photoshop 7 is at 30,000 X 30,000 & 24 channels. Remember, Print files can get mega-huge. CS can support non-square pixels for those that work with video. For photographers there's an improved histogram, and built-in camera Raw format reading as well as a great new shadow/hilight adjustment menu. Visit the sites, look around for reviews, take the trials for a spin... figure out what's best for you. Perhaps 1, perhaps both, who knows.

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Color correction and suite capability are the two benefits that Photoshop has over PSP. Beyond that, PSP can do just about everything "editing" wise that PS does -- with the addition of unique tools for handling vector shapes that PS has a difficulty dealing with unless you port over to Illustrator. My preference is for Photoshop, but that's becuse while I hate it more than just about anything, I know it. And what you know is always better than what you don't -- until you learn it....

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Photoshop does have more features than PSP, and that's part of why it costs so much. There are several native filters, layer styles, various image correction features, and, especially, the ability to prepare work for print. Pretty much ALL jobs in graphic design require you to be proficient in Photoshop. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that Paint Shop Pro isn't a perfectly solid, usable, and high quality program. It is. It's got some good features that are unique. It's a LOT of bang for the buck. I still believe that it depends a great deal on what you want/need to do. bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

> *"Remember that Photoshop might be the industry standard in the US, but in Europe CorelDraw is also an industry standard."*

And if I was working primarily in the UK I would probably wind up using that for those reasons. This is not about blindly following the "industry standard" and using a inferior tool - in this case the tool (Photoshop) is absolutely top notch... so the downside of using a tool that is not standard is not compensated for by any dramatic increase in ability or productivity.

"If you mean layer blending modes, you'd have to tell me if this is all of them."

There is a whole lot more behind the "blending" options than those. They are probably not things you will use in your work, or maybe they aren't used often.... but when you are discussing a tool that will be a major portion of your workflow I tend to choose the one that provides me the most options.

"Color correction and suite capability are the two benefits that Photoshop has over PSP."

If you are including color space management in with color correction I agree. I would also add the new "layer comps" ability as an awesome advantage.

In the end it can be summed up like this. You won't spend nearly as much on PSP and you might never need anything more than it is. But if the question is about "more powerful" then there really is no competition between the two.