Hi everyone...me again :-) Both on the E-on site and in my manual it says that Vue 4 Pro will save images as PSD files, but I don't have that option in the dropdown box. I checked for updates in case it was a new feature, but it tells me that mine is the newest version. I've also had it crash on me a few times - can't be my system as the computer's only a couple of months old and it's not an illegal copy before anyone mentions the anti-piracy thing ;-) Any help or suggestions on either would be appreicated. Gill

Gill

       

I don't have this possibility either in my drop down list and in fact it is written in the book. As I don't have Photoshop, I did not miss it, but I will immediately write to e-on. As soon as I have an answer, I will come back here. Please be a little patient. Guitta

I"m in the middle of a render, so can't check for you right now, but later I"ll see if I can save a psd file. I don't save images in that format, so have never tried before. As far as crashes, well, I get that too occasionally, but not as much as when it first came out! Could you provide your machine specs? That might help. Also, is it only crashing when you do certain things? I find if I'm tearing through the material editor fast, Pro doesn't care for that and will sometimes hang and crash on me.

Sgiathalaich

Try to disable OpenGL and see if it always crashes after that.

Thanks for all your responses :-) My system is Windoze XP, P4 2.66ghz, 512mb RAM. The RAM is the only thing I'm concerned with as although I used to run my old computer on 64MB (which ran Bryce, Vue and Poser all with very few problems!!) I may well upgrade the RAM on this one to at least double what it is now. A couple of days back it was crashing while rendering to disk so I started it again and rendered to screen instead. It managed it that time. Was rendering on Final at 1152x864 120dpi. I did have a glowing material in there. Previously it's crashed while I was in the plant editor and afterwards when I tried opening it again, it crashed as soon as the programme opened. It does seem very intermittent and doesn't seem connected with anything in particular. I WILL try your suggestion gebe, and disable Open GL. As for the PSD option, I use that when saving out of Bryce as I find it gives the best results, and even in you don't have Photoshop you can still open PSD files in some other programmes (like PSP). I'd be interested to see how this thread spins out. Once again, thanks everyone Gill

Gill

       

I just disabled open GL so will see how it performs over the next few days. One thing that I did notice which is why I'm posting again is that when I used the render in main view option with Open GL enabled the image got all 'jaggified' for want of a better expression but it doesn't with it disabled. I attached a screenshot to show what I mean

Gill

       

Well, after disabling open gl I was about an hour into creating a new scene tonight. Went into the plant editor to reduce the polygon on a rural maple and kerrrrrrrrrrrrash!! Of course, I hadn't got round to saving it so I just lost everything - got to start over :-(

Gill

       

Crashes and lockups -- whenever I do ANY kind of serious animating -- seem to be the order of the day for Vue. It's called Professional, but I don't find things like the constant crashing (or locking up), or massive slowdowns when using the timeline, etc. very professional at all. You're not alone, believe me. If my other software, -- like After Effects, video editing apps, imaging software, etc -- were this unstable, I'd NEVER get anything done. I've gone back to the rock-solid Bryce 5 for the important stuff.

Oh, and did they ever fix the replace object bug anyone?

Thanks,
Tim

Vue's implementation of OpenGL has caused problems with some graphics cards. There's been endless discussion about this in the forum (do a search on OpenGL and see what you come up with!). I was used to working in wireframe with Bryce, so turning off OpenGL in Vue and Vue Pro was no big deal for me, and greatly helped the stability of the proggies on my machine. That said, timoteo1 has a point about saving. I do incremental saves of a scene, with a slightly different name each time. Often when Vue/Pro crashes, it corrupts the scene file. If you have the option checked to make a .bak (backup file) of your file, you can usually reopen it that way. But to save yourself aggravation, best to do fairly constant saves just in case. I also put things in layers, cool in Pro because you can create as many layers as you need. Group items within the layers as well. I have a gig of RAM in my machine, and that has helped me with larger scenes, but I don't know how much it has to do with the stability of the program, other than the point folks make about "you never have enough RAM"!

Sgiathalaich

I have been very quite with my problems with Vue untill reading this thread, I have been having crashes like a lot of other people and without anything in particular that causes it that we have pinpointed at e-ons tech support. My problem with everyone turning off Open Gl tells me if its an Open Gl problem then e-on is the one who needs to find what it is and why it is not working. I paid for that feature and would like to have it to work. Do we all buy one viedo card just for Vue. I have one question...........Why does other appllications that use Open Gl work with out problems and with out having to disable Open Gl or buy a special Viedo Card that is known to work with Open GL. :o)

ïÏøçö

I don't think that OpenGL is the problem. I now have that feature turned off and it still crashes. I know manufacturers want to protect their software as much as possible but could it be that it's the anti-piracy thing that's causing it? If they've written something in the programme to cause it to crash if it's being used illegally, could there be a problem with this part of the programming that's causing intermittent crashes for bona fide users? If it is then maybe they should look at another way of doing it.

Gill

       

As I have no crashes, it's difficult to speak about. But if you all who have crashes would for a while write down every crash, when, why, what error message. If you could write what exactly you have done before the crash, the size of your scene, the number of polygones, the number of lights and so forth... I could transmit it. Is the crash repeatable or is it just randomly? I really cannot understand, because for most users Vue Pro works without problems. I have it installed on a Pentium IV - 2,8, 1 G RAM, a Radeon 9700 Pro on Windows XP Pro. The only crashes I can reproduce is when my scene becomes over 100 MB big and when I try to add more then 1 object at a time. I need then to save each time, shot down Vue and even the computer to restart and add a new object. This is a memory problem, not a Vu ePro problem. I would then need 2 G Ram.

Well to start with my version of Vue is not illegal or a pirated copy. I am against the anti piracy bit that is put into software as it only hurts the innocent that will pay for the application. A pirate will always be able to get into a piece of software. Always have and always will. You could very well be right that something in the software is causing all our problems for the ones who are having problems. I know Poser 5 took it out because of various reason. I wonder if that is one of them. gebe you were lucky enough to be a beta tester and was able to turn in your errors and crashes to e-on from your computer. What about the many many others that have a different configuration than yours. That is where the problem lies. My problems are random so it is hard to duplicate it when it does happen. That makes it hard when trying to explain to e-on or anyone else. That is reeason I have been quite with my problems and keep hoping that the problem may be found. If my problem would do the same all the time then we might be able to pinpoint my problem. :o) I turned off back ground draw and still get crashes. I will continue to wait for an update that maybe one day will take care my problem. That is the only choice I have it seems...:o)

ïÏøçö

We beta testers had all different computers graphic cards, OS and so forth. The reason must be somewhere else. Often a simple reinstall helps.

I have reinstalled Vue numerous times before trying to solve my problem. It is the only software on my computer that has been reinstalled numerous times. Yes I went through my registery and made sure it was all taken out. I disable my firewall and virus scan and anything that might been running in back ground during the install. Most all my other software has been installed one time and have not had any problems at all. There is no doubt a problem somewhere with Vue but finding it seems to be the problem and may take a stroke of luck to pin point it. :o)

ïÏøçö

Oh, BTW I can make Vue crash every few minutes if I want (but only in heavy scenes with many polygones, many objects)in doing the biggest error:-) If I don't wait until Vue has finished the task I just asked for, but ask another task immediately while Vue is working on the previous. And as I don't understand why Vue needs some time to do the task, I just ask it twice or more and then maybe even another one. LOL This may be great with a 4 Giga machine, but not with a 2.8 or less:-) Can this be a reason for your crashes?

I have a 2.5 ghtz Pentium 4 with 1.5 gig of ram using a nivida geforce 2 viedo card with 64 megs of memory that works with all other open gl. I am using windows 2000 with everything in background disabled that can be disabled and my computer operate properly. You may be right and we all need a faster machine with lots more ram. I don't have the answer.....:o( I wish I did so we the ones with problems could work in vue without having so many probems that we should not be having. :o)

ïÏøçö

I have to Echo iloco's sentiments. Vue crashes at random for no particular reason. I would say it happens more when I'm animating, but I'm ALWAYS animating basically. I have tried turning off the background draw. I have tried disabling OpenGL ... nothing works. Vue sometimes just disappears, or simply stops responding. I use LOTS of other extrememly complex software, and none of it crashes like Vue ... in fact, most of it (if not all) simply does not crash PERIOD. After Effects, Edius, Particle Illusion, 3DS Max, Imaginate ... even POSER! The list goes on. All work OpenGl apps work flawlessly. This happens with the simplest of scenes. I was animating a ball rolling down an incline. I made some changes through the wizard a few times, and on the third change Vue just crashed out of the blue. Just when I'm really liking Vue Pro, it locks up or crashes, and I get this feeling in the pit of my stomach that I've wasted a lot of money and more importantly, my time with E-on products. It's very discouraging. :(

Well, I think that a lot of people experience crash with Vue since the v4.0 May be the antipiracy is one reason. I have been in touch with the e-on support in order to try to solve my crash pb, but how could you describe a problem when you load a file, you do an action it carshs, you reload, do the same action it works? If really the pb could come from the antipiracy code, they should go on the same way than Curious Labs. I agree with Timoteo, it's very frustating, because vue is great soft, but we need to be able to use it on a more reliable way :(

First, I will answer to Gillbrooks' first question..Loading PSD in Vue Pro... In fact, I've lost all my hair trying to save or load a PSD file... I reinstall Vue several time, and don't saw any PSD choice in dropdown menu... But there was the PSD.Eon file, so I thought that it should work... But one day, I didn't care about it anymore... And some time ago, I magically saw that I can save PSD files:) I don't know how it is possible, it is magic:) (the picture prove that is is true)... Finally I always save Vue pics as PSD, it is more convenient... In my experience, I never saw a software that doesn't crash or don't have bugs... With 3ds max, sometime, it is like vue pro, it shuts down. I'm saving a scene, and... it shuts down. I'm moving a point, and... it shutsdown! Sometimes, I think it just want to make a joke. Vue Pro act in a same way. It works fine and sometime it wants to make a joke and it close the scene. Illustrator is sometime very hard to bear too. Sometime you pixelize something, it works fine, and another time you pixelize the same thing in the same condition and it doesn't work... there is artefacts on the pixelized pics, or another good things... Sometimes it crash too, often when the deadline comes;) It seems that pro soft act like that... They have their good points, and sometimes there are unbearable. I generally reach to do what I want, it takes me some times, but I do. With Vue Pro, I'm able to use it normally, and it crash sometimes, but not as often as it seems to occured with some (a lot of;) ) users... I don't think it is the antipiracy system that makes Vue crash... I prefer to think that it is all this thread, background draw thread, render preview thread, etc... Thread is not a good thing;)

Gillbrooks can save psd files too now:-) Guitta

Yes I can and I thank you for that :-)

Gill

       

VuePro still has problems on my machine as well, although after the patches it's settled down to a single issue, though I haven't played around much in the new editors to find the bugs there. I think what you use, and how you use it is a possible reason why some have problems and others don't. Some may not hit that little piece of code that is messing up. Random occurences can be difficult to find, but it's almost always the software, and not the hardware, background tasks, etc, in the end, though software companies would rather pass the buck. Then strangely enough, even though no hardware or habits have changed, but the software surprisingly works after the next update. Hmmm. I think there are some valid complaints here.

As to the Vue Pro crashing, my personal experience is that it is some sort of memory leak in the resource table. One can watch the resource memory shrink down and down and not from adding objects, lights, etc. Eventually the memory gets too low and the system crashes. Now depending on background tasks, the crash can come in various guises. On mine, it seems to kill all the menus until the pointer is over them and makes requesters come up as ghosts. If I save and restart, I can sometimes continue with the requesters working, but the menus are still disappeared until the mouse goes over them. It takes out windows at the same time, since windows has to use the resource table to. Rebooting resets the table, thus it works again until the next incident. While I'm not totally sure, it seems to rush this process when using the undo, which I do alot, being not as young and healthy as I used to. In my latest battle with the bug, I did a couple of undos in order to reset a piece I had moved and that is when it started acting up. It ran fine before that. I have noticed this connection a few times. It doesn't surprise me that this particular bug cannot be duplicated as there are a lot of things that use the resource table, so it could be anything that can trigger taking Vue over the limit. If I were E-on, I would start with the undo. I know they've already done one patch to the Undo system, but maybe there is still more to do. As I've said before, I think VuePro is an excellent program if they can smooth it all out.

The amount of polygons or lights don't seem to have any effect on this, though it may happen quicker in high polygon pics, though it actually seems to do it with less than more.

My machine is a:
P4T Motherboard with P4-1.8Ghz
512 Meg of RAMBUS
ATI AIW 9700 Pro with the latest Catalyst drivers
It's on a 60 gig partition by itself with at least 3 gig of swap space on average (windows controls the space).

It's entirely possible that background tasks that use the resource table as well, would make the crashes more frequent, but it is not those tasks that are killing the table. Any suggestions would be most welcome. I tried shutting off OpenGL, though I winced at the thought of not using a major feature that i bought it for, but shutting it off didn't help anyway.

ShadowWind

ShawdowWind, you have expericed the exact same problems I have but was able to explain better than I. The problem you have just stated is what my problem is also. I have to agree with you and your observation on what is happening even though there will be some that will not agree with us. :o) I am not up on the techical part of how things work but do know when something is not right. I like Vue Pro and what it has to offer. I only wish e-on could find and get the problems squared away for us the users who are using it.

ïÏøçö

Great point Shadow! I forgot all about that, but I too notice it occurs more often when doing undos. It just now happened with a simple ball object, no lights except sun. I was trying to change a keyframe point. I drug it somewhere and POOF! I restarted Vue and was doing something else fairly basic, hit undo a couple of times and ... CRASH. Also, I recently had to reinstall Vue Pro because it simply refused to launch. I hadn't done anything major to that machine, and had not touched Vue Pro for some time. It just stopped working. Isn't that bizarre? It makes me really start to wonder about the whole anti-piracy scheme. That reminds me of something a program using that technique might do, no? If anyone from E-on is reading this ... why not just remove it with the next patch, so that we can at the VERY LEAST eliminate that as a suspect? PLEASE!

While my heart goes out to my fellow Vue'ers that are having this trouble, I am glad to hear that I am not the only one having this problem. It validates that it is indeed a problem that hopefully gebe can get e-on to look at. Since the undo seems to be a culprit, maybe that will give them enough info for a bug hunt for their next update. I hope so. I would be glad to work with support at e-on to find this bug out and stomp it. While I don't know their code obviously, being a programmer, I have a lot of experience on getting a scenario narrowed down.

Timoeteo,
Could you maybe elaborate on what POOF and CRASH means in your situation. Is it the same as Iloco and I are saying, or is it something different? Just wanting to know so we know whether it's two different bugs or the same one.

Also, it's not bizarre to have a program stop working from one session to the next. This can be caused by a whole lot of scenarios, not the least of which is a byte that was not read properly due to a small glitch in the HD surface, a bad shutdown where memory caches did not write properly to disk, a crash in an earlier session that corrupted a file that is needed to load, etc. I've had several programs over time that have stopped working for no reason. I'm not saying VuePro didn't do it to itself, I have no idea, my point is that it's really not as rare as it should be, that's all.

Antycon,
What operating system are you running? The reason I ask is because before I got win2K, I was constantly battling software and crashes. When I got Win2K, I've had a very stable system that ran that same software without a hitch. 98SE is notorious for it's memory management. Now on XP, I can't say. I bought it when it came out, and installed it, but it had so many bugs and driver issues back then, that I formatted the drive and reinstalled Win2K. I do plan to switch back up to it in the future, but I don't have a reason to as of yet, since Win2K does run fairly stable. The software I run generally has a 1% failure rate during usage (meaning it crashes), but VuePro has a 100% rate, so it's something seriously wrong there that shouldn't be. Yes, all software has bugs, but they are generally not to the point where the software is unusable by some. I dont mind slight annoyances, but downright crashing is serious stuff, especially after the price tag.

ShadowWind

PS: I doubt it's the piracy thing, but if it is, there is obviously a bug there so it's the same difference. It shouldn't be interfering with legal owners, which I am (bought all of my vue stuff, Vue 4, the vegetation pack, Vue Pro directly from e-On) and I am registered there.

gebe, it's possible that could do it too, the clicking on another task before the last one is done, and might even explain the undo, but that is still a bug that needs to be addressed. Most software does this by simply locking out new key commands until the last task is finished, leaving only escape. It's noble that e-on chose to make sure they got keystrokes during tasks, it's not good if it crashes because of that. I do remember your list of how to baby VuePro into being a godo little puppy, and if this was a shareware program, I'd say okay, but a $400-500 program should not have to be babied. Photoshop, Bryce, and others don't espect it, and neither should VUe. In other words, it's not acceptable for the computer to crash because one forgot Rule #13: Creoss fingers and pray while hitting CTRL-Z. :) We want to help e-on find these bugs and stomp them out, so they have a stable product and we have a great experience with the software, without all the hoopla of restarting several times a session, etc. I for one will do whatever e-on needs to help us fix this. SHadowWind

Dang, I should have proofed that before I put it up. Forgive the typos, cold medication is playing havoc with me, not to mention the cold...

Since this keep coming up about problems and crashes with Vue Pro it seems to me there is still lots work to be accomplished for the few that are having problems. I think more are having problems than what is speaking up due to getting a run around or being told it is a problem with them and not Vue Pro. Wake up people and speak up if we are to get these problems fixed. This forum is set up for help with vue and problems it has. When Vue Pro came out and there was so many problems and bugs that we kept this forum busy with complaints e-on said they would lookk into or give us a help forum at their site. That was a long time ago and that forum still hasn't been installed. The help system they have has a lot to be desired with how it works. Why can they not have a forum like this one we are discussing problems in. I think it would help them understand what is going on better than with the system they have now that I quit using because it is a waste of my time and theie time since nothing gets accomplished but questions and more questions.

ïÏøçö

Poser 4 crashes (freezes completely) very often for me. Vue doesn't:-)

gebe are you saying that Vue Pro does not have any problems. I have never had the crashes with Vue 4 as I have with Vue Pro. This should say something about something is wrong. If anyone can prove or show me it is something other than in the software I will gladly apologize for saying it is in the software and buy what hardware I need to make it operate corrctly on my computer. You have stated many times you have no problem with Vue Pro. Does that mean all other users are suppose to have the same when they install the software. I am just glad you do not have any problems and have to experience what it is we are going through and trying to get fixed. You are most fortunate to have a good working version of Vue Pro. :o) I don't mean any harm with what I am saying only what I see on my end with what is taking place on my computer with Vue Pro. And I see a few others are having the same problem. I would love to see this problem solved because Vue is My favorite software program. I am not knocking Vue or e-on at all. Just would like to be able to help get this problem fixed.

ïÏøçö

iloco, believe me I'm very sorry for every one who has problems with Vue. And even more sorry not to be a technical to be able to help out. But we are very many who have no problem. Unfortunately only users with problems are posting here in the forum. Those are few in comparaison to the number of selled Vue Pro copies. Of course it should work for everybody, but I believe that it would work on a completely clean machine with nothing running in the background. I must say that I only have Vue2, Vue 3, Vue 4, Vue Pro and Poser on my machine, nothing else, no anti-virus, no Word or anything else. All my other softs are on my old AMD 1G machine. This can be a reason that it works so well. I need and use it for my regular work every day. And I know I'm not one of few lucky ones. Many users are working professionally with it. Just see the spotlight samples on e-on's site. Guitta

I know of two friends that are to shy to post about their problems with Vue Pro. This may be reason that others are not coming forward and just watching us do their talking for them and hoping the problems will get solved and they not have to get involved. I had been that way untill this thread when I decide to speakup about my problem. Why does other software work on a computer that has more software installed than Vue. That doesn't make any sense that Vue needs to be the only program installed so it will work correctly. We could go round and round for ever why yours work and why mine should work correctly but in the end it most likely is a bug in the software or you would not have to run it by itself on another computer with out other software installed. Were all the beta testers just using Vue Pro only on their computers when testing or did they have other software installed other than Vue Pro.

ïÏøçö

No, but if you install first Vue Pro on a clean machine and use it and then only install other programs it must work:-). And a professional program is worth this work, IMHO.

So after spending months and months getting everything set up on a computer so it works the way we want along comes one program that has to be treated different before it will work. So that is telling us with problems that all our problems are because we need to format our computers and load Vue Pro first after putting a new operating system on our computer so we don't get the errors or crash's we are experiencing now. A professional program should not have to be this way to work. So in the future all software will require it to be installed first before it will work. Am I understanding you correctly.

ïÏøçö

No way am I reformatting and reinstalling everything. No programme manufacturer should expect that of anyone!

Gill

       

I forgot to mention that about two weeks ago I posted my problem at e-on. I was getting a VuePro.eon error when I got a crash. This doesn't happen all the time with a crash. They confirmed that there was a problem in Vue Pro since it was generating this error, but had to be able to duplicate what I did to cause the error before they could find or fix. I can not duplicate what happened. I only know it happens and is still happening as some of the above replys has stated. So if e-on confirms there is a problem that tells me there is a problem. :o) Finding and fixing it and giving us a new update is what the ones that don't speak up is waitng on as well as what I am waitng on.

ïÏøçö

:-)

"lol" :o)

ïÏøçö

I am running both Vue 4.2 and Vue Pro on my machine. Intel 2.6, 1G rambus RAM and a GeForce MX440 video card. Vue 4.2 performs like a champ. I don't have any crash problems with it. However, VuePro has been a disappointment since day one. While i don't crash it a lot (I don't think my scenes are big enough), Open GL is worthless. I can use it for a while, then movement slows down within the program. I feel like I am working in slow motion. Actually, I find that happening even with the Open GL disabled and the background drawing bit disabled. After working for a while, the program slows to a crawl. Then stops. This does sound like memory leak behavior. Actually, I've gotten so frustrated with it, I've pretty much stopped using it and gone back to 4.2 where I'm happy. I do my rendering in Pro, but that's about it. For the money spent on VuePro, I expected quality. That's not what I got

www.lingriffin.com

Yes, I get that too, slowing down till it almost stops. I also get icons disappear within the programme, and on odd occasions when I've scrolled down to the Windows taskbar the tooltips appear all black with no writing - I get that with no other programme. I've also tried closing everything else down - just leaving the essentials running but still no improvement.

Gill

       

"Yes, I get that too, slowing down till it almost stops. I also get icons disappear within the programme, and on odd occasions when I've scrolled down to the Windows taskbar the tooltips appear all black with no writing" Yes, that exact same thing happens to me as well. If you right click on the toolbar, the pop-up is blank until you mouse-over it ... and even then it does not "draw" correctly. This would indicate to me some type of resources leak for sure. And it is JUST VUE ... nothing else does this of course. And believe, it is REALLY, REALLY hard to make Win2K (aka "The Earth's Best Operating System) to lose resources and behave badly. -Tim

Oooh, okay so much to cover, so little time. Let's ... BEGIN!

Shadow:

"POOF" = Vue simply vanishes from the desktop. No error ... just gone!

"CRASH" = Vue crashes, popping up a generic error message. Relaunching the program works fine, but it may or may not crash again in the next session. But probably will.

The other common problem, as someone else described, is the gradual slowdown and then grinding to a halt (becomes totally unresponsive) in Vue Pro.

Next to the initial release of Poser 5 ... this is the buggiest piece of crap I have ever had the misfortune of using. I was able to crank out a couple of animations last night (thankfully it doesn't seem to crash during renders!), but it was pot luck getting them setup and took about 5 times as long.

TO BE CONTINUED ...

Iloco:

You are absolutely right ... many people do not speak up about their problems. Or heck, even know about these forums or use them. I have no problem posting about the problems I have with Vue -- as many of you know. ;) But, even I had given up and left this forum for some time.

In any case, I think the problems are much more rampant with Vue Pro than almost any other 3D app, especially among the "professional grade" apps. I wish we could do polls here (among other things).

Guitta: You wrote, "Of course it should work for everybody, but I believe that it would work on a completely clean machine with nothing running in the background."

This begs the question, why other complex software (AE, Bryce, 3DS Max, Edius, Particle Illusion, etc.) NEVER crash or have any of these problems, doesn't it? I really apprecaite your input and help on a lot of issues, but sometimes your objectivity (or lack thereof) is severely impacted your hyper-enthusiam for E-on products. I think Iloco (and others) has more than explained adequately why there is indeed a problem with Vue and not the user or user machine.

In any case, we'll find out soon enough. I have three new machines coming in by next week. I will test this theory on the best of them (P4 3.4GHZ HT, 2 GIG RAM, 240GB RAID 0, RADEON 9800 DDR, etc.) I will be doing a clean install and have nothing on there except the very basics. I will install Vue first, test it, then begin adding my video editing and other apps.

CONTINUED ...

To those with Vue Pro (or Vue 4.2) problems:

I did notice Shadow was running Win2K (like me). Could anyone reading this thread who is experiencing Vue crashes list if they are using WindowsXP or Win2K?

I'm wondering if it is some type of incompatibility with WIN2K. (Again, wish there was a poll function here.)

Also, I'm curious what OS are you running Guitta?

Again, I guess I'll find out when I get my new XP machine. Thanks!

I am glad to see others are speaking up with same problem I am having with Vue Pro. It seems it is the one major problem that is crashing our machines. I am using windows 2000 Pro to answer your question on what Operating system I am using. I hope that e-on will read this thread and see the problems that we are having. Their way of helping on their site I got tired of trying to use. You leave a question they ask a question. It goes on and on and nothing gets accomplished. I would like to see them add a help forum such as this where owners of Vue could ask or answer questions. Guess that will never happen. :o)

ïÏøçö

I'm using Win XP Home edition

Gill

       

There goes that theory I suppose. I was beginning to believe it after Iloco's post. shucks. It was a longshot anyway I suppose.

I run XP Pro timoteo. But most of our beta testers were running Win 2000.

I am running XP Pro. Running any other application, the applications are stable. And actually, although VuePro crashes (or in my case, grinds to a halt), the operating system does not.

www.lingriffin.com

gebe would it be possible for you to get one of the techs from e-on to view this thread and read what the users have said their problem was and how it is effecting their computer. Their(e-on) way of offering help has a lot that is not very helpful when trying to get a problem solved. When you post a problem it takes 24 hrs to get an answer and then it will be a question that just keeps on leading to more questions. After a week of this I was back to where I started, No problem fixed and only an answer that there was a problem but I needed to duplicate it again and start the process all over again with trying to get help. This is enough to discourge anyone from using that kind of help system. My problem is exactly as the others have stated only they were able to put it into words better than I. Maybe the tech at e-on if reading this thread might be able to get a better idea with the problem by reading this thread. I am sure I was not able to get my explanation across to them with what my problem was when replying on e-ons tech site other than giving them a VuePro.eon had caused an error. We just knew I had a problem but I could not duplicate it or explain it to them in detail. The above members have explained in pretty good detail what is happening in Vue pro for the ones that are having a problem. The sooner Vue Pro is working for us that are having a problem the sooner all this bashing and wanting help will go away. I would much rather be using Vue Pro than posting about its problems with crashes and errors. Would this be possible for you to do for us. :)

ïÏøçö

iloco, I even don't need to do that, because e-on's people reads regulary (all the time) the posts here. And believe me, I know them since version 1, they never sleep and always are listening to their users. This is how gillbrooks psd problem in the first post could be solved immediately. Understand that it is difficult for them, if not impossible, to look into a specific problem if it is not repeatable. They are always working to give satisfaction to everybody. This is true, these are not just words. Go regulary to e-on's site and see the newest update. First of all, always get the FULL update, not the incremental. I had problems with incremental and will not do it again. Second, before you install an update, create a new folder, call it "mybackup" and copy in this new folder all the files sitting in your Vue Folder. Add to this new folder the following folders: ENVIRONMENT and MODULES. That's what I do every time a new update is available. Especially if they are betas. I only trust to my own backups. If ever the update makes things worse for you, just put back everyting from your saved folder. Just go and have a look there right now to make sure you have really the latest update:-) www.e-onsoftware.com. After that, continue posting here in this same thread. Makes things easier. Thanks!

I check e-on's site everyday as part of my daily routine on the internet. I do as you have said since you mentioned this in an earlier post to make bkups before doing an upgrade. I do have the latest update to Vue Pro installed. Thanks for lettings us know that e-on is reading our post with our problems. That makes me feel a little better that maybe something may be done to correct our problem that is causing the slow down in Vue Pro and the hard crashes some of us are getting. :o( I really like all the extras that Vue Pro has to offer but when it doesn't work then it becomes a nightmare and that is when people get agravated and voice their opinion with the software, especially when we feel we are being overlooked with what a few think is our problem and not a problem in the software. :o) This thread should prove it is a software problem and not a USER or hardware problem. Since I now feel we are being taken serioulsy I will back off on my replys and post and hope that we have accomplished something and maybe our problem can be looked into and corrected. I want to thank everyone that did take time to speak up and only wish more would do the same. If we don't let e-on know we will never get the problems solved. Thanks everyone for letting me speak my mind in this thread.

ïÏøçö

268300? Is this your Build number?

Does Vue Pro say that your graphic card is working with Pro?

No gebe that build I dont have and can not get it becasue it says The update archive is corrupted or truncated. Please download it again. I keep getting a corrupt download so it is hard for me to update when that happens. :o( This is with the full update which shows is 24.1 MB's but I am only downloading 20.6 MB's. I will try the Incremental update to 4.51 but the full update needs looked into and fixed.

ïÏøçö

Yes Vue Pro says my graphic card is working with Vue Pro. It states on e-ons site that my card is one of the cards that will work with Vue Pro. :o)

ïÏøçö

I was still on the last official one. I will try the beta one and see if it fixes it. I noticed the description did say "New Memory Management strategy" which I hope means that they fixed the resource leaks. I will be awhile before I know if it's fixed or not. Will post here if it's not. Thanks.

You may try again to download iloco.

I tried downloading the 268300 full install several times this morning (clearing cache, and restarting browser) and it says Update Archive is corrupt or truncated. Please try again." Can someone at e-on look at that or are their servers having issues this morning? ShadowWind

I have tryed again and keep getting the corrupt download. ShawdowWind has just stated the same so it has to be a problem with files on e-on site. :o(

ïÏøçö

Is it safe to use the incremental or is it better to wait for e-on to fix the full install?

See my post #52 above for the incremental

268300 exists as a full install. But it is a beta and as all betas it is on your own risk. But if you have backed up your files, no problem.

I am waiting untill the corrupt download is fixed for the full update and then I will download and update and see what fix's it has taken care of for me with regards to some my crash's and VuePro.eon errors

ïÏøçö

The download is not corrupt. I have just tried again to download it. It comes completely.

Since I only got my copy last week, I checked for newer versions but it says mine is up to date.

Gill

       

The new beta update is only up since yesterday :-)

Well I was getting the same problem 5 minutes ago. The file is listed as being 24.1Mb, but the download dialog only reports 20.6. Attempying to run the file fails with error: "The file is corrupt or truncated. Please download again" John

:-( so I'm the only lucky one again?

Gillbrooks; build 268300 is a beta. I think that the check for update menu item ignores betas. John

gebe I would love to know your secret or have some of your luck with Vue. :o)

ïÏøçö

Yes, of course John. You cannot do this via the check for update. You must download it "by hand".

"lol" I am downloading by hand. Hadn't even thought about using the update in Vue Pro as it will only work for final releases of an update. I have used 3 different computers that are on my network of 5 and get the same with each of them. :o(

ïÏøçö

Gebe, it does compolete the download, it is when you try to run it that it says the error. And it's only 20 meg of 24 meg that is listed on the site.

OK, as I had already installed it, I didn't need to try it again. Had just downloaded it. But you're right. It doesn't want to install. I have reported it. So, e-on will see it tomorrow morning (GMT) I think. :-( not lucky this time:-)

Cool...

We can all meet here back tomorrow morning. I will bring the doughnuts. :)

and me scrambled eggs and a baguette (I like salty breakfasts)

I've got the coffee. Oh and gum ... some of you guys need to work on your morning breath! ;-) I like the sounds of "New Memory Management Strategy" ... could this be it?? Can't wait to find out!

Being English, I'll bring a pot of tea ;-)

Gill

       

I just now downloaded the update and was able to get the full download of 24.1 but when installing the update still getting the error "the update archive is corrupted or truncated. " I thought I had hit pay dirt when I saw I was getting the full download. I will wait and eat breakfast with everyone and hope it is ready then. gebe I like salty breakfast also but will have Country Ham with my eggs to get the salt. It is sure hard on blood pressure but OOOOOOOO how good it is. :o)

ïÏøçö

Gillbrooks:

I'm as English as you can get, well short of wearing a horned helmet and going round in a longboat laying waste to Northern Europe, and I have to say it's coffee for me! Oh yeah, and a croissant, followed by a fresh baguette, some very lightly salted butter and goats cheese. I tell you; if the French know anything, it's how to have breakfast!

John

John : Croissants I can go with (YUM), coffee OK later in the morning (has to be tea - in a teapot - first thing....BUT GOATS CHEESE????? ptttttffffaff, pass the sick bucket ;-) Love the piccie Gill

Gill

       

Hope your breakfast was, is or will be fine:-) The full beta update 268300 is fixed now:-) Guitta

Yeahhh! Thanks for the good news Guitta! -Tim

I downloaded the full beta update this morning and it ran perfectly. I was able to open VuePro and mess around a bit and so far so good. Unfortunately, I'm off to work :o( but I plan to put it through it's paces this weekend. Fingers crossed and hoping for the best. -Lin

www.lingriffin.com

I installed the update. Was working on a project that so far has a tree with apples (spheres), a fence, a terrain and a directional light. Was moving the position of the light and it crashed. Whole screen went white and it then closed down. I tried to do a print screen while this was going on so I could post an example, but I got an out of memory error message saying it couldn't complete the task. So maybe it goes back to the memory leak thread. Only other programmes I had open at the time were OE and MailWasher. Back to the drawing board, eh ? :-( Gill

Gill

       

You may have a memory problem. Have you tried to give more virtual memory to the HD where Vue Pro is? You can find it in the System properties-->Advanced--->PERFORMANCES--->PARAMETERS There again click ADVANCED--->MODIFY You should have at least 1536 as an available maximum size for your virtual memory on that HD. On the other side, you have not much ram either (512 is very little). Vue Pro needs lots of memory.

Update installed ok for me also. Will proably be over weekend before I get a chance to do much with Vue. I am very curious to see what happens. :)

ïÏøçö

Gill:

Sounds like you're running this on a computer that is a multi-purpose machine. I wouldn't say just Outlook Express and Mailwasher, and I don't know what Mailwasher is but it sounds like it is either a virus scanner or spam filter, which cause more trouble than they are worth.

While I would never suggest you should have to run Vue all by itself on a machine, I would say that you should probably have a dedicated machine for graphics/video apps or your asking for trouble.

Also, what OS are you running?

-Tim

I've run a multi-purpose machine for as long as I've been doing artwork and I've never had any trouble like VuePro with any app that I had, once the dust settled. This includes Poser, Lightwave, Bryce, Photoshop, Painter and others, not to mention Vue 4. The whole point is windows compliancy, not dedicating a machine to it. If it was only supposed to run on it's own machine, that should have been in the product recommendation specs, so people not willing to do so, would know not to pay $300-500 for it.

And I hope the dust will settle on VuePro at some point, and it will be the stable application it can be in the environment it's designed for. They did it in Vue 4, they should be able to do it in VuePro. But with all due respect Timoteo, putting it on a dedicated machine or one is asking for trouble is a notion that should really never be heard in Windows.

Here's hoping...

ShadowWind

Mail Washer is simply a programme I use to check my mail before downloading it in OE so I can delete virus and spam while it's still on the server. I have it running all the time my computer is switched on and it never causes other programmes to crash. I use Win XP I have no trouble running any other 3D app while not only MW and OE are running but often many other programmes too. I've even had THREE Bryce windows open at once, each one rendering a different scene! I have neither the money, space, nor inclination to buy another computer solely for using Vue. Also, Gebe suggested that I may have a resource problem. I do not. I can use any other programme without that problem occurring - it only happens with Vue. Plus I checked in the manual under System Requirements and I quote: "This is why we feel that running it on a 512MB, 1GHz Pentium 4 computer or better is best suited" so the comment of "On the other side, you have not much ram either (512 is very little). Vue Pro needs lots of memory. " is wrong. Anyway, I used to use D'Esprit on my old computer with only a 550 mhz processor and just a MINISCULE 64 MB RAM!!! Sorry if I sound terse but trying to blame users computers instead of the software, or suggestions of buying another computer for sole use is just a little too much now ;-) Gill

Gill

       

Gill, it's NOT wrong. Vue Pro uses MUCH more ressources then Vue d'Esprit. I "only" have 1 G Ram, but honestly I need 2 G.

I think Vue needs to do some home work and really explain to its customers what it does need if that be the case anyone who buys Vue should first go and load up with ram. To many things being blamed on something that I don't feel is to be blamed. Notice I said I. Just my opinion. :o) I had 512 MB's Ram when I first got Vue Pro. All I heard was you need more Ram. I now have 1.5 Gig and it still is slow or crash's and to be honest can not tell a bit of difference with the use of Vue Pro. I will not buy more. I have ran a memory check on each strip of Ram to make sure it is not bad, so I know the Ram is good. I haven't had time to try the new upgrade yet so maybe there will be something in it to help me from the crash's. Will see in next couple days. but seems some are still having problems. :o(

ïÏøçö

The only time that Windows should crash due to high memory usage is if it runs out of virtual and physical memory. So Gebe's suggestion of upping the virtual memory page size may alleviate a lot of the high polygon problems some are experiencing, and I have done that in mine. The slow response after a bit of time if you are constantly adding things to the scene could also come from this as well. After all, the more swap space it uses, the slower it's gonna be, because the hard drive is nowhere near as fast as RAM. If it crashes because of high polygons, then that is a completely different error that may be fixed by more physical RAM, but also should be looked at at e-on as well.

I think there is some confusion when I and other say Resources. Resources are not where windows stores the code, 3d model and texture data, etc. Resources are things like requesters, menus, static items that the program uses upon request. For instance, when you call up a menu, that menu is allocated in the resource table. When it is done, it's yanked from the table. The resource table is a locked size area within the windows protected zone. It has protocols as to how to allocate, write and delete resources from that table. No matter how much physical or virtual RAM you have, it still only has a fixed length. This table is used by all the programs in the system that uses interfaces. The reason this table doesn't fill up on it's own generally is that you are only using one application's interface at any given moment. Now, if a program is not deleting and thus freeing memory in that table when it does one of the interface functions, than it is leaking resource memory. When that memory fills up, it leaves no other room for any other program or itself to be able to send menu, requester information to windows. Therefore, you get all that craziness. Now if the table gets overflowed, than it can and will crash Windows. Normally programs protect against that by putting in checks for whether a certain resource can be allocated or not. If it cannot, then it usually throws a message that says, "Out of Memory" error. This does not always mean out of physical/virtual memory (though it can), but it can also mean out of Resource Memory that again is finite and not part of the main memory stack. Therefore, no amount of memory is going to fix the problem if this is indeed the error, as it seems to be based on what has been said.

I have not had a chance to play with Vue Pro since the update, so I don't know if this has been fixed or not, although I am losing hope after Gill's post, but I will let you know what I discover. And I will be the first to applaud E-on for a job well done if they fix this.

ShadowWind

Absolutely correct. Also, I have never seen Vue use all of my physical memory -- not even close ... at least according to TM. Would it still use the page file anyway? If so, is that normal?

I wouldn't think so. I know that when I use After Effects, I can sit there and watch it "chow down" on my gigs of RAM as it renders frames into the RAM preview.

Thanks,
Tim

PS> I have installed the update, and played with Vue for about 15-20 mins (max). So far, no crashes or real slowdowns.

I have seen windows use page swaps when it had plenty of memory left. Not sure why that is, except perhaps some other purpose like drive write caching. ShadowWind

Here is a pic of my Virtual memory settings. I have 15 gigs of free space on the Drive I have Vue Pro installed on. Anyone recommend changing these settings. :o)

ïÏøçö

On machines with more than one physical drive; I've often got an increase in speed, and a decrease in page faults, by moving the swap file to a drive where Windows does't reside. After all you're going to have apps making temp files, browsers caching web stuff and Windows paging memory, all simultaneously on one drive. Also if your secondary drive is newer than your primary, it's likely to have better access times and be in better shape fragmentation wise.

John

I have Vue 4 Pro on D: here is how it looks to work fine.

John took the words right out of my mouth .. or right off my fingers. I definitely would move your swap file to your non-OS drive. I moved mine to my larger and much faster drive and it made a noticeable difference.

Great advice John, mine is on a separate drive from both VuePro and the system drive.

I created another swap file on my second HD where Vue resides. I am now running the new beta (3693000) version and it seems fine, even fast IF (a big IF) I turn off background drawing and Open GL. Working with Open GL is slow motion from the beginning of the session and it crashed. Scene is 4 mill polygons.

www.lingriffin.com

I can leave OpenGL on, but turning off the background thread is a must for me. Although, Vue's OpenGL implementation can't make up it's whether it wants to speed up the view panes or not ...

Seemingly at random it will slow down -- even just panning around a simple object. And other times moving the camera around a scene is very fluid, with multiple complex objects.

I DO notice that maximizing the main view (or any of the other views) speeds up the display considerably. Which, of course, make sense.

On the subject of the new V4P build; I didn't download because of crashes, I haven't had a crash since disabling the background draw thread 4 months ago. I downloaded to see if it would fix some wierdness I'd been getting in P5 cloth simulation imports.

Given the above, I think you can guess how happy I was when "Vue4Pro.eon has encountered a problem and needs to close." appeared after about 25 mins of playing with it. Anywho, I hit the "send error report" button and, much to my amazement, after the "checking for error status" message box, I got a dialog I've never seen before saying there actually WAS information available that might help fix the problem - all the time I've used XP, I never really thought that error reporting really DID anything! The link in the dialog took me to a page at microsoft.com containing the message that my error had (most likely) originated in the ATI driver, and a link to ATI driver updates.

The ATI link wasn't really useful, since my desktop PC blew up (literally!) I've been using an HP/Compaq laptop with HP custom drivers, got the latest drivers from HP though and I'm stunned by the difference it's made. When I first got Vue Pro I as impressed with how quick I could see a shaded preview of my scence, maybe 3 or 4 seconds, but now I've got real time! No noticible wait for a preview with textures, lens fare, the whole thing!

I really am very sorry for those having big problems with Pro, I didn't even realise I was having a problem till I fixed it just now, all I can say is please stick with it, coz when it works properly - and particularly in conjunction with Poser 5 - the results are awesome!

John

quote: "I didn't even realise I was having a problem till I fixed it just now." I wonder how many more have problems but want let anyone know about them. Can anyone tell me exactly what background draw is for and actually does. I do know what OpenGl is and I would like to think I can use it since it was part of our package when we bought Vue Pro. Tomorrow I should be able to play in Vue a while and then can tell about the new upgrade I installed.

ïÏøçö

Well I had another menu deletion episode with VuePro tonight with 52,000 polygons and 2 lights. I selected a group I had made of 2 poser objects and a light and when I let go of the mouse, it got super slow and then finally returned, and when it did, the menus were gone, but the speed returned. This is the same type of things I've been getting. I tried closing it out and reloading it, but it had already did crazy things to the windows resource table, so I had to reboot to continue. So the update didn't fix this.

I will try the background draw thread workaround and see if that works for me as I try to get this picture done.

ShadowWind

Since the updates (the previous one), I haven't had it crash as in end the program or end with an error message in any particular program. It just craps the menus and the requesters to the point of being unusable until rebooted. At which time I can load the same scene and continue on for another hour or so. ShadowWind

iloco; That option should really be called the 'background redraw' thread, because that is essentially what it does. That is the screen refresh for the non active components in the viewport, and any effect that changes in your active component(s) might produce (such as shadows, or hotspots caused by adding light sources). It also handles the realtime redraw whenever you actually move something; that is why you disable the feature whenever you have the trouble of creating an object, moving to a new location, and you get multiple ghost artifacts of that object along the path you moved it. And the big kicker is that this thread uses (I believe )your video card to handle the redraw; disabled, the task falls back onto the CPU.

Thanks Dale B for that explanation. beginning to understand more how a few things are working in Vue. I have been working in Vue this afternoon after new upgrade and Have not had any hard crashes so far. Vue does seem to be very sluggish and not as responsive as it should be. It is on the verge of being just like what ShadowWind is experiencing. Still something is just not right with Vue Pro. Have not finished a scene yet, so will keep observing what takes place. :o)

ïÏøçö

What stinks is, because Renderosity is living in the mid 90's as far as forums go, this thread is getting buried as each day passes. Many people who might benefit from an active and informational thread like this will never see it. Not as bad as if this were the Poser forum, but it's still getting buried. What a totally idiotic way of doing things. And don't get me started on the pathetic search system ... arrrghh. [/rant]

timoteo1 weird that I was thinking same thing this morning. Have to agree this type of forum doesn't have a lot going for it. "lol" When I saw it didn't have an edit option I knew it was still in the stone age. :o(

ïÏøçö

It's a real shame too, because it IS a good forum ... people/content -wise. Just a lot is being squandered because of their arcahic BB system. S A D

Tonite had a hard crash using Vue Pro. Had a few rocks and one object with a couple points lights. When I added a directional light it locked it up solid. Had to shut down and restart computer bye reset button on PC tower. Getting real agravating that something is causing all these problems and we can not figure out what it is. If anyone can prove to me it is my hardware I will buy new hardware so I can get Vue Pro to work for me.

ïÏøçö

I give up on VuePro after several more crashes last night. Maybe it works for some, that are willing to go to extreme measures, none of which are in the program specs (buying a dedicated machine, reformatting windows, etc). Maybe the pain of doing these things is a lot less when you get the software for free. But I didn't. I paid for it as a legal customer should, and at this point, I really feel as though e-on pirated my $300 and sold me this bugware that promises to be a technical wonder, but must be badly coded to require such extreme measures that has been mentioned here. So back to Vue 4, and will write this up as a lesson in never buying from e-on again. You know, I'm against piracy, but it completely amazes me that we see e-on in these threads very quickly to roast a pirate, but not to address their legitimate customer's concerns. Says a lot about the company.

ShadowWind

Well, so far on my clean new system (and I mean CLEAN!) Vue has not crashed. Besides being totally amazed at speed increase and smoothness, I have not encountered any problems but need to do some more testing. However, it did say my Radeon 9800 PRO was not a validated card, but it too seems to work flawlessly for the most part. (Get some weird "noise" in some patterns.)

Now the bad news ... the timeline response STILL comes to a crawl (worse than a crawl) after importing a simple animated Poser figure. It is beyond unusable.

I don't how Phoul and other animators can stand it or even work with it ... it's ludicrous. There is still a good one or two second lag from when you try to move the cursor, to it and the scene actually moving. FORGET showing the animation smoothly at all. This is on a 3.4GHZ HT, 2 GIG RAM, RAID, etc. machine.

PLEASE, PLEASE fix this dibilitating bug Eon. PLEASE!!

Here are only few persons speaking. None of you was able to do a step by step description of your crashes. How would you get help if e-on isn't aware how the crashes arrived?

That's because for most of us, no one thing (except maybe or using UNDO) can be narrowed down. Vue seems to crash or lose resources at random. Also, many of us have used their dreadful technical "support" system to no avail. This has been covered by many people, many times Guitta.

I'm not speaking about the support pages at e-on timoteo, because that's the same problem. No description, no specific help possible. Even if it is random, just write it down, step by step. This should be easy, as crashes seems to happen all the time for you. Maybe in repeating exactly the same steps you can get it twice? Write it down here in this thread:-)

Step 1 open vue pro Step 2 open New Orleans atmosphere Step 3 add rocks untill I have a group of 8. group the rocks and remane to rocks1 Step 4 duplicate rock group one and rename rockgroup2 step 4 move rockgroup2 to postion I want it. Step 5 move rockgroup1 to postion I want it. Step 6 add a terrian and add a lemog testure and resize terrian. move terrian to back of scene into the background. step 7 add one point light and place behnd camera. step 8 add a water plane and add water texture from Vue default textures. Add reflexion of 20% to water. step 9 add a plum tree to rockgroup1 as brush. step 10 duplicate plum tree and add more brush to rock group 1 step 11 duplicate plum tree and add to rock group 2 aSs brush. step 12 add one directional light and click on the icon to move its position. CRASH!!!!!! This is a hard crash that needs to shut off computer and restart with computer off on button. Ctl Alt and delete will not let me get to the application to top it from running or restart computer from Ctl Alt Delete. Now what more can I add if these were the only steps I did and have them listed as it happened. These are random slowdowns or crahes and no one thing cause them to happen. As long as a few think we (3-4 users that do speak up) are having a problem I don't see much progress as it seems others think it is us the user instead of Vue the Software that is the problem. I think a lot of users that have problems don't speak up because they feel intimadaded by how they get replys that it throws all the blame back to them instead of where the problem rally lies. I refuse to be intimadated by any one when I pay cash for an item that is suppose to work as it is advertised and it does not do as it is suppose to.

ïÏøçö

iloco, if you do these steps again, does it crsh again at the same position?

No.

ïÏøçö

Gebe,
The scenario of memory leaking should be enough for their staff to do a full shakedown of the code. It is the one constant in all of this. This type of bug is notorious for not being able to be duplicated by the customer, because it is affected by outside influences that the customer has no way of knowing about.

Let me see if I can explain this in layman's terms...

There is the Windows Hotel, a plush resort that VuePro customers love so much, that when they find it, they just want to stay forever. Now the hotel also caters to other customers as well and at any given time, there is a random number of people staying in the hotel, because most check in and out, making room for new people. VuePro people don't leave though, and so as more come, they fill up the hotel, making it more difficult for other people to book rooms. But as long as there is room at the Inn, everyone is happy to be staying there. Mr. Undo came in and found a room no problem. Mr. Undo decided he wanted another room, after not clearing out of his first room. He finds there is no room at the Inn, even though his travel agent told him there was. He goes down and fights with the front desk, but there is no room, so there is nothing that can be done. Instead of just giving up the room, he blows the place up in anger.

Now in computer terms, it means that if a resource cannot be allocated into the reserved space and that refusal is not properly dealt with, it's going to crash. It may not even be VuePro that instigates the crash, but VuePro is the cause of it nonetheless, because it does not clean up it's allocations as it's supposed to and this is called a leak.

I've been in software development for 20 years and seen many different scenarios where there comes into play, and it's not uncommon (especially in windows). But it's nothing that the customer can share. It's not an easy bug to find, taking a complete shakedown of the code. But it's necessary if their goal is to make a stable system.

The reason it doesn't crash on a dedicated computer is because the resource table can then be used almost exclusively by VuePro, giving it plenty of leeway to leave bits on the stack. By the time it fills up enough to crash, your session with it is probably over, thus you never notice it. Also I've noticed that most people that seem to run VuePro fine, tend to stick with what is in VuePro rather than a whole lot of Poser imports and things, so it's possible the leak is only in those routines, and thus it hardly ever leaks memory in other areas.

So is it the official word from e-on that unless we can give them a duplicatable scenario that we are out of luck? If so, I would like to hear that from e-on directly. I would hope that is not the case though, as I know if I tried to pull that on my customers at work, I'd be fired.

ShadowWind

All I can say is I am glad there are a few reasonable people that do understand there is a problem that has not been found yet with Vue Pro. I do use a lot of outside props, obj's and materials with vue pro. It would be useless to me if I had to use only what came with Vue Pro. I do not use the animation part of Vue Pro so I have no idea how it works and if there is any problems with that part of it. I just bought xfrog basic library and waiting on the USA package of trees to use with Vue Pro when they are converted to Vue format. Why is Vue 4.2 stable and Vue Pro is not. Just a thought but is it because 4.2 OpenGl will not work and it will with Vue Pro. Is Open Gl the culprit or a memory leak as Others has suggested. I am open to suggestions and will buy a new viedo card but I don't think that is my problem. I know its not my RAM because I have done added to where I now have 1.5 gigs of it. I have a faster computer than some that are using Vue Pro so its not my pc. I am using windows 2000 which is suppose to be the best memory manager that there is. I have no idea other than to know it is most frustrating and agravating when all it wants to do is slow down or crash when trying to use it. I only use it for fun. If I had to depend on it for money then I would have done given up with it. ;o( I keep hoping that e-on will find the problem so we can enjoy the software it is suppose to be and can be when the problem is solved.

ïÏøçö

Thank you, ShadowWind, for wonderfully describing a possible problem with VuePro. Its behavior on my machine, fine when first opened, then gradually slowing down to the point where I'm moving in slow motion seems to be a memory leak problem. I work in the software industry and know that this is always a major concern with development. I've given up on Open GL and background draw even though e-on says my video card is compatible. Somehow this just isn't right.

www.lingriffin.com

To nite I disabled Open Gl and draw. Step1 loaded one terrian and applied a multiple texture from default materials. Step 2 duplicated the terrian twice with same texture. Step 3 loaded walnut tree that came from plants from e-on Step 4 duplicated the walnut. Step 5 duplicated the walnut once more and positioned it in scene. Step 6 added a xfrog dandelion plant and resized it small so it would be to scale. Step 7 clicked on scatter and replicate for the xfrog dandelion and asked it to make 100 copys and scatter at various settings. Vue Pro locked up solid........."o( Now this time I get and error message that says: Mircrosoft Visual C++ Runtime Library Runtime error! Program:....ogram Filese-on softwareVue 4 ProfessionalVue4Pro.eon This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the applications support team for more information. I was able to close Vue Pro this time by clicking on the X but lost my scene as I didn't have it saved with so little in it. Now heres the kicker. I duplicated the scene and this time it duplicated the plants but then quit respondeing. It didn't lock this time so I waited for about 5 minutes and it finally gave me a Vue 4 Professional small window that said Out of memory. Under that window is one exactly like the above described one. I kept clicking on the out of memory small window but it kept coming back as fast as it would disappear when I click on it. I was finally able to get to window under the small one and click on the ok and it closed out Vue Pro. I have no idea what is going on but maybe one of you software people can decifer a little from what happen tonite with this shuting down of Vue Pro. Remember no OpenGl and draw enabled. :o(

ïÏøçö

"I do not use the animation part of Vue Pro so I have no idea how it works and if there is any problems with that part of it.

And how ... more than I care to mention. The worst of which is the previously mentioned TIMELINE SCRUB SLOWDOWN. It makes Poser animation import useless IMHO. The "fun" has just begun if you're only doing stills.

-Tim

Attached Link: https://secure.e-onsoftware.com/Download/Updates.php

Get the newest 268404 update and see if it solves your problems.

Thanks gebe for keeping us posted. Going there now. Will let you know how things work. I was able to create a scene last nite by saving often and restarting Vue pretty often. Not sure what is effecting my memory that slows Vue down when I have been in it for a while. :)

ïÏøçö

Sorry, but on my brand new CLEAN system, I was using Vue Pro for about 5minutes when it crashed. Major disappointment. I created a tree, duplicated and randomized size/location 10 times. I drug the timeline around a bit, added a keyframe at 6 seconds. I then move one tree up and was going to move it back down when I got the dreaded Vue.eon error and had to shut it down. sigh This is pathetic. I'll try running it without OpenGL once again, even though that was one of the main reasons I got Pro was to have real GL suppport. Are they planning on having official support for the Radeon 9800 any time soon? (Arguably one of the most popular graphics cards on the market.)

I am still getting VuePro.eon errors and solid lockups when trying to replicate an object so can scatter them in a scene. This time it was the cactus when I tryed to replicate 50 of them in a desert scene. This is after the new update today. It says an error log is being created in the Program error window. I have to reboot my computer before I can access Vue or windows again.

ïÏøçö

I rebooted computer and loaded a cactus and put in to scatter 50 cactus and it locked again with nothing in the scene but the cactus. After rebooting again I backed off to 25 cactus to replicate and scatter. This it done without crashing. Now I think I will increase the number and see what happens. I increased to 35 and got a solid lockup with Vue and had to reboot computer to get back into windows and Vue. Can someone else try this and let me know what happens.

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I have gone back a half hr later and tryed again to duplicate the 50 cactus and it scattered and replicated them with out any problem. Did 50 other plants along with the cactus. I am lost for what is happening with me and Vue Pro. I think I am jinked and maybe its not suppose to work for me. :o( I will quit bugging everyone with my complaints and keep getting updates and hope one these days my Vue Pro is as stable as a lot of yours.

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Just to let everyone know I poseted the above crash at e-ons tech site and here is there reply back. Quote"" Indeed, we were able to reproduce the bug. We did not have to reboot, however. I told the development team about this problem, and they will see what they can do about it. Best regards. Tom Thir End Quote. It only confirms to me there are bugs in VuePro and we need to work with e-on and everyone who has problems to get them resolved. :o)

ïÏøçö

Anyone got catsup for this crow I'm about to eat? He's kinda tough. In doing further research last night about this seemingly lack of resources that VUePro seems to get itself into, I came across some information that I was not aware of. Being a Unix programmer, and one not up on the latest windows enhancements, I found out that even though it appears to be a resource table problem, Win2K and WinXP do not use resource tables, but rather unlimited (only by memory) space for resource storage. Which means, that while it still could be leaking memory across the board, it's possible that there are other elements at play here.

Also in my research, I read the latest service pack release for Win2K had a few fixes that were GUI and memory related that might be interfering. Perhaps these are not a problem in XP, only 2K. What service pack are the ones having trouble running VuePro using.

I'm still not getting the official crash with the Vuepro.eon.exe error message. I just get the destruction of the interface, which seems very difficult to duplicate. I did get one Vuepro.eon error, but it was when I tried to bring in something from Vue 4 that I knew wasn't that compatible and I wasn't surprised it crashed.

The odd thing now is Vue 4 seems to be acting up now a bit, quitting for no reason which it did twice. So I am starting to wonder if there isn't something more at play here than just Vue.

To the ones running VuePro fine, and we already know gebe's answer, are you running Vue 4 and VuePro together or just VuePro itslef without Vue 4. Would uninstalling Vue 4 do any good?

ShadowWind

I am running service pak 3 for windows 2000 pro. What gets me is my other applications don't have the problems I have been having with Vue Pro. Since I quit trying to replicate plants and been doing normal things I have been getting along prety good since the last upgrade to Vue Pro. I have also wondered if uninstalling Vue 4.2 would have any effects on VuePro but if its not open I don't see how it would effect VuePro when its running. There is a lot I don't know and understand about how software works. I only know when it is not working as its suppose to work. :o)

ïÏøçö

Don't waste your time ... like I said, I installed Vue Pro on a CLEAN system. It made no difference whatsoever. Also, on my old machine I was running Win2K service pack 3.

Shadow, I didn't realize you were talking about those kind of resources (GDI resources I suppose), or I could have saved you from eating that particular aviary feast. I knew the NT-kernal (aka "kick-ass") OS's didn;t rely on this anymore. The main reason I left Win98 waaay back when.

-Tim

Hmmmm.... I'm on Win2kPro SP -2-, and VuePro has been very well behaved... Norton's AntiSpam broke part of the OS, so I'll have to strip her down to metal again, but I might get SP-3 and install it first, just to see if it has any effect on my stability... (I'd rather depend on hard and software firewalls, AV protection, and common sense experience to protect me from the Bad Things out on the Net; I've seen too many 'patches' that acted like a skin graft. One area of damage was fixed by peeling another....)

Cripes! Now this thread makes me wonder if I want to buy VUE at all! What's a Poser Fan ta do? LOL!

I have a G4 dual 500mhz mac with 1 gig of ram. At one stage vue pro was working quite well for me albeit with fairly frequent crashes. Then I downloaded the upgrades and kept going with the next and the next in the hope that vue pro would work better, and now it doesn't work with poser at all. As soon as i import a poser object it crashes. I wrote to the e-on support and they said to reinstall poser 4 poser 5 and vue which I did but it hasn't helped. One thing I thought of reading this is whether the mac installers are working properly. I did have a problem downloading the latest beta complete 24 meg upgrade similar to what's mentioned in the early messages, but then I used the incremental instead. but maybe even if I had the complete upgrade it wouldn't help and I'd still be stuck with unuseable vue. Its very sad as I've not made a pic for what seems like months although I suppose it could just be about 6 weeks or so. Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

After working with Vue Pro for last couple days after the last update I can tell it is a lot better than what it was before the update. I do have a bug that will crash Vue when I duplicate or replicate plants but Vue has confirmed it is a problem and should have a fix in next upgrade. It seems a little sluggish but at lest I have not had any more crash's and I am able to use OpenGL. I have slowed down and quit pushing it and this may be helping some. Once you are use to Vue 4.2 and its quickness it is hard to do different with Vue Pro. I hope others that were having problems are doing better after the last update. I do know how frustrating it can be. :o)

ïÏøçö

I've just DL the update so I'll give it a whirl later....

Gill

       

Well, I've done the SP-3 install, and tried to crash VuePro, with less than stellar success (created 58 plants, grouped them, and pulled them all over window. No problems). So that doesn't seem to have any effect.

Looks like we are about to loose our thread that has been quite a good one for the ones who have had problems with Vue Pro. I had a crash again last nite after working in VuePro for a while. When it crashed it corrupted my saved file and I had to resort to my bakup file to get my scene back. I have no idea what caused the crash or the problem because everything was going along so good and then BAM a crash. :o( I am thinking seriously of doubling my RAM from 1.5 gig to 3 gig and see if that would have any effect. :o)

ïÏøçö

I've been speaking to someone who has a brand new PC with 2Gig RAM and it's crashed on her system several times - no particular reason, just like the rest of us - random crashes

Gill

       

gillbrooks after reading what you said about your friends computer crashing and the amount of Ram they had and me checking on the price to upgrade to 3 gigs of Ram I have decided against it. If we need so much Ram I think e-on should experiment and tell us what the minimium we can have to operate VuePro without having probems, If.... that is part of our problem..

ïÏøçö

The manual says min 512mb :-O

Gill

       

Like I mentioned at least a few times, I just got a brand new system with 2 GIGs of RAM ... bleeding edge system, and have the same problems as you and others. I don;t think it is a RAM issue at all ... I think it is an "Eon engineers suck" issue to put it bluntly, and we're paying for it.

Vue 4 Pro Build 268493 Posted Make a backup of your env folder, at least:-)

Thanks I got it. :o)

ïÏøçö

Well after getting new update to Vue and playing with it for about an hour this morning I have locked it up again with same thing happening as has been discussed in this thread so many times by others. It slows to a crawl and things just quit working before it locks up solid. If this is for professionals and they depend on it for an income I don't see how they could be paying the bills. I had to reboot my computer to get back into windows the same as before the upgrade. :o(

ïÏøçö

I've gone back to Bryce 5 for the important stuff. Unfortunately, Bryce (feature-wise) is not as powerful as Vue overall. But I can't use Vue in a professional capacity at all because it is completely unreliable. In the long run, it would take me longer and many more times the frustration to do an equal project.

Well just now was working with a new vue scene in Vue Pro and it started slwoing down again with me as I placed objects into the scene. We it got so slow I decided to restart Vue Pro and when I clicked on the X to shut it down I got this Vue Pro.eon error. Vue4Pro.eon-Application Error The instruction at "0x77e8b4ee" referenced memory at "0x0562800c". The memory could not be "written". Click OK to terminate the program. Is this saying its a memory error or what. :o(

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