Attached Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3d_celebrities/

After a bit of pre-production, CeeBee and myself have developed a formula for digital cloning using a composite figure created with a number of programs. If you want to know more about the process or just want to see more pics like this, visit CeeBee's yahoo group.

Any chance of uploading some of the celebrity face morphs to the group? I looked at the price of FaceGen and it doesn't look like I'll be using that program any time soon. It does look like a good program based on the results you're showing.

sorry, as far as I know exported .obj files made in FG may not be distributed. The facegen .fg files can be distributed but you need FaceGen to use them, the same way you need poser to open a .pz3 file.

wow- that pic is very good :) post some more here

Nice! Any chance of some views from different angles?

Good point, wipe. It's possible they can only do full-frontal renders and poses, if all they have are full-frontal photo references.

here's a 360 degree render, the figure is animateable, with a full range of expressions and viewable from all angles.

You could use face gen and do "frankensteining" to stick the head onto v3 or any other figure, though you wouldn`t have any head morphs unless you made them yourself. In poser 5 you could make face room faces and frankenstein these onto other figures, too.

FaceGen can create an endless number of head morphs, which can then be applied to the figure. Its quick and easy, basically the same process as applying head morphs to posette. If you look at the results we've gotten so far, and compare them to the Poser 5 Face Room, our renders are far superior. I've yet to see a decent face room render using the mediocre Don and Judy figures. Keep in mind, we're in the early stages and constantly refining our technique. But IMHO people have been attempting this for a long time and what we've done blows everything else away.

That 360-render is nice. Is that some other celeb?

Ok, I joined but I REALLY detest Yahoo groups. Very unprofessional. What's the price? What's the product overview? These things aren't easily available on the yahoo site (I've been there for 20 minutes and can't find 'em yet)

Mateo, glad you liked the 3d view. thats a Beyonce clone, I can post a pic here if you like. There's also some at the yahoo group. Xena, thanks for your interest in the yahoo group. I've only recently become involved with it, but I can tell you that all the information and images are in the files section. As of now the production formula we're using was created by CeeBee and I've joined on for the post-production and creative input. Right now this is all in the beginning stages, so as more people become involved perhaps we'll move onto dedicated webhosting. the yahoo group is just a starting point for now.

Yes that 360 is gorgeous. Yum! :] Fish

One question... don't you run the risk of getting sued by the celebrities themselves? /P

Nice, but they tend to look as though the face has been projected on to a blank screen; the texture seems to define the face rather than the geometry.

I will say this much, if I paid $500 buckaroos for something I better darn be able to use the resulting morphs for sellable characters. If I design the morphs from photos (front/side) then the morph is my creation, the tool to it's creation would be FaceGen. Crayola can't sue me for my creations because I used their crayons in the process... that's obsurd and good ole capitalistic monopolising. Sorry FaceGen, but you won't be seeing my dollars and I'm sure you won't be winning any court suits over exported morphs that someone else created using your software. Besides, why would I want to make replicas of celebrities? Now, that is certainly an area that might get me sued if I haven't been granted permission to use their likeness. On the other hand you could always use their likeness, but not their name ;) ----Will

Keihan, where did you find the price and info on the program. After 20 minutes I got sick of looking :/

Attached Link: http://www.facegen.com/

Way, way too spendy for anything I'd use it for. They have something called a customizer that will let you apply the morph (fg file) to your own mesh. I can't see where they'd be able to stop you from distributing that.

The technology used in FaceGen is exactly the same technology as used in Poser 5. However, I think FaceGen allows you to use the technology on your own meshes as well. I've been drooling over it for ages. 8-)

Thanks Jim :)

Zarabanda, I wasnt saying your way wasnt good or needed, I was just mentioning other ways to do the same thing, and I have had a few very good results with the face room.

Xantor, Im encouraged to hear you've gotten good results with the face room. I'd love to see them, I might take a second look at it if I saw something worthwhile produced by it. Penguin and Keihan bring up good points. Why would anyone want to make a celebrity clone? Well, they are universally recognizable people. I can clone my 6th grade math teacher, but no matter how much convincing I do, you'll never really know if I nailed it or not. The most recocnizable feature of any person is their face, it is how the human mind memorizes people. So if we both know what Abraham Lincoln looks like then I'll get busy cloning him and skip my 6th grade math teacher. This is strictly an exercise in art and technology. A 3D clone is like a digital sculpture, a virtual extension of our physical selves. Who is cloned is not nearly as important as HOW they are cloned. So for anyone who's ever wanted to, CeeBee and myself have found a way.

For V3 Created in poser by Anton aka PhoenixRising

Why shouldn't speech be free? Very little of it is worth anything.

Actually, are we really comparing apples to apples here? The figure used in the FaceGen renders appears to be a Vicky of one version or another ... is that true? So making comparisons between your technique and the Poser 5 face room isn't really an apples to apples comparison. The Judy mesh does not have the same quality of modeling as the DAZ figures do. The real challenge would be to use Judy for both samples as a comparison. If you can pull something like that off with Judy, then I'd say your technique wins. 8-)

Do you have any examples of male celebrity clones?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1670188

Zarabanda, this is an alan alda head I did using the face room, the bigger picture is at the link. I can`t show the other pictures as they are people I know and they wouldn`t like their faces shown here, also you wouldn`t actually know if they had turned out well anyway.

I also have to echo Keihan's sentiments. If I pay 500 smackeroonies for a graphics tool, then its not right that I should be forbidden from distributing my OBJ files (..as Zarabanda has suggested). I have found that you can get a lot of variability in faces using Poser, you just have to work a bit harder to get there (e.g. its difficult, but not impossible to disguise Judy or M3). Also, "putty" tools such as zBrush or Amorphium are a great addition for face creation.

Sorry Xena...missed yer post ;) keihan-Smacks himself Good to see someone else posted the link though. ;) As far as face morphs go, I don't think I'm going to go looking for the easy way because they are, usually, very limited in their results. I, also, don't see much art in using something that takes much of the creativity out of the process. I'd prefer to stick to creating my morphs in Rhino and knowing that I created them completely from scratch... and I can remain comfortable knowing that the makers of Rhino aren't going to attempt to sue me for distributing my own work. :) ---Will

Deecey, I've included an example of a digital clone using the Judy figure just for arguments sake. But Judy is a failed figure with no support so using her is an exercise in futility. My figure of choice is V2 and her morphing clothes pack, as that is a widely supported figure with a large library of textures, clothes, etc. Xantor, the standard I use for digital clones is, if you don't tell me who it is, will I be able to guess for myself? To me the key is being able to recognize the person without being told. Randy, currently there are no male clones, but I look forward to creating one. I can understand everyone's misgivings about the expensive cost and content distribution limits of FaceGen. Of course, theres a million ways to skin a cat. But digital cloning has been tried by many, including Daz, and the results have been mediocre at best. So far I've only seen two artists on Rosity, LadyLight and Gaspo, who have succeeded at this. I guess its just a matter of the final image justifying the process, however you get there is much less important than the finished product. The key here to me is that CeeBee and I have developed a formula that yields consistent results and can be taught to others with the interest and resources.

I looked at a link, at FaceGen, to see what it would cost to redistribute the Obj and they want a grand for it. It sounds as if you are using the Victoria mesh. Is it just a matter of plopping a FaceGen obj head on a Vickie body or is FaceGen creating an obj morph from the Vickie mesh that still allows you to use all the Vickie morphs for expressions?

I said the face was alan alda because a lot of people, especially younger users might not even know who alan alda is.

So far I've only seen two artists on Rosity, LadyLight and Gaspo, who have succeeded at this. You might want to also check out Catherina Harder's work (from mec4D). She has done an absolutely AMAZING Sean Connery and Arnold Schwarzenneger that are so real you'd swear they were photographs. Nice job on the Judy figure (that doesn't look like her body, though - did you do something with that also?) I think Poser 5 users can get similar results with Judy if they learn how to use the Face Room (ironically, I just posted tutorials about it LOL). Where did you get the photos that you used for the Judy figure? I'd be anxious to give it a try in the Face Room to see if it can achieve similar results.

Deecey, the source pics are available at the yahoo group. If you have a yahoo ID it takes just a sec to join. They're in the Jeri folder in the files section. Actually that is the default Judy figure with no tweaking whatsoever. I adjusted the skin tone on the body for the color match with the head, but thats it. I used my GlowBall lighting set which IMHO is the best global lighting out there for Poser (at least its my personal fave). It tends to bring the best out of even Lo Res figures like Judy and Posette.

Zarabanda, thanks for the pointer ... LOL now I have to remember my yahoo ID ;-) I hope you don't think I'm being a jerk about this ... quite the contrary, I think your work is wonderful (even exceptional!) and I'm sure you've put a LOT of time and expense into your technique. I've been drooling over FaceGen for a long time, primarily because it allows you to do similar things with other characters. But now that the soon-to-be-released LightWave 8 has a morph mixing feature, I think the need for FaceGen is all but eliminated on my end. I'm looking at it from the perspective of those who can't afford these wonderful additional tools, but who might be able to get the same results from Poser 5 if they already have it. So I might give the Jeri photos a try, if you don't mind, and post results here. In the meantime, fantastic work! I really am duly impressed. 8-p

Deecey, TY so much for the encouragement. I really wish Face Room had unlimited potential for digital cloning, and if it can do everything that FageGen does, all the better. I'm all for it. If you can pull this off in face room I will be your #1 student :) ::hands Deecey a shiny red apple

Hmmm it appears that the models are FACEGEN created models. I do not see any import options for models created outside of FACEGEN, is this correct? I hate proprietary software.

Keihan, As far as I know, you can't import any meshes into face gen. Its strictly intended as a plugin for other programs, as a quick and easy way to create and export head meshes to other programs.

To add to my satement above, I'm guessing that you cannot import Victoria or Mike and create morphs to their facial geometry using FACEGEN; correct?

no I don't believe you can do that, its really designed more as a plugin than a standalone app.

Looks like we cross-posted ;)

I see. That would make it virtually useless to me then, anyhow.

However, now I understand "why" they don't wish for distribution of the geometry.

hehe yah, we should take this to IM. :) I agree that FaceGen is of limited use. However, it is extremely powerful in its ability to generate heads with limitless morph potential (races, expressions,etc.) So in that way, you can create custom one of a kind poser figures with heads that you've generated yourself. And of course theres FaceGen's photofit process which creates excellent digital clones.

It appears, though, that you are using FaceGen Modeller for your technique. There is also a FaceGen Customizer, which allows you to use your own geometry. Now, the question is ... do you need BOTH the Modeller and the Customizer if you want to use your own geometry? That's a lot of moolah 8-)

There is still the fact, that even with FaceGen Customizer, you cannot redistribute your resulting mesh objects. A quote from the "Customizer" license: "3.6 CUSTOMER will not, and will not authorize any third party to; (a) rent, lease, sell, transfer or sublicense Statistical Data, or (b) electronically transfer Statistical Data to any third party, except as authorized under a separate agreement."

The reason I say it is useless to me is this: As a content creator, I would make very few, if any, sales for items which would require a separate program (plugin so to speak). To further hinder sales, is the fact of the proprietary file format. It may have it's uses for some folks and it's awesome that you find it useful, but I'm not willing to shell out $1000 for any proprietary software which has such limitations in the scope of profitability. As a 3D modeler, I may as well create my own figures. Much more profitability in that as time consuming as it may be. If I was an animator or illustrator and made my money from video production or magazine cover design etc etc, I might reconsider, but that's not what I do :)

OK, so they are not only restricting the use of the geometry, they are also restricting the use of the "morph data" it seems. I have to agree with keihan ... it's a lot of money to spend for the "average joe" who won't have a way to recup their costs. In that respect it is difficult to justify the investment. Still, as I said before, you have done marvelous work with it, and I don't mean to minimize your efforts. You should be applauded for the effort and diligence that it took regardless. 8-)

I have to say that with few exceptions, "Celebrity Clones" are about as convincing as celebrity action figures. Very few exceptions. I never would have recognized "Alan Alda" if given all day with no hints, and I've seen most of his movies, watched him in interviews, and loved M.A.S.H. Sorry. This is not a limitation of the artist but the medium, I think. Essentially, sculpting with virtual chickenwire is not likely to give you the greatest results. IMHO. M

it is alan alda older and I think it is a pretty good likeness.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=618661

I have great respect and appreciation for the community here and the feedback they provide. If the reactions I'm getting here are any indication, then CeeBee and I have been successful. http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=618661

OK, just a WIP render ... admittedly it has a LONG way to go.

But here is what I was able to achieve in the Face Room in 45 minutes (I have to stop now because I have to leave for work soon). This is with no cleanup on the texture, and some morph tweaking in the Face Shaping Tool that still has to be done.

It's still a far cry from the default Judy 8-)

For those who want to attempt this in P5's face room, pay more attention to the texture lineup when you move the feature points in the Photo Lineup area. Then, use the morphs in the Face Shaping Tool to refine the shape of the head.

I will update when I have more time to refine this more ... but as I say this is only after 45 minutes of work, with no additional postwork on the texture, and with only partial work with Judy's face morphs.

Original face morphs created in Rhino 3D and morph injected over one of the channels in Victoria 1. Yep, that is Victoria 1. Basic Low/Med res texture map.

BTW,The hair on my "Storm" pic is Arizona hair by DarkWhisper.

OK, here's further attempt ... I will admit that it is not a good likeness of Jeri, but I **don't** think it's a limitation of the software. I think it's a limitation of the artist. This is only the second time I have ever tried to reproduce a "famous" person in 3D, and I will readily admit that I just don't have the eye for it.

However, if you were to ask me if I was satisfied with the realism of this character, I would say yes. I think I was able to "unJudify" Judy ... and the only program that I used so far was Poser 5. No retouching of the texture at all (and I'm sure if it were cleaned up it would look a lot better).

So ... my verdict is that, with persistance, Poser 5 Face Room does have the capabilities that can produce some darned good realistic characters. And in the hands of a good artist, it can probably get much better results for a likeness than I did here. 8-)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=608206&Start=1&Sectionid=0&filter_genre_id=0&Form.Se

I was having a look in the galleries today, and I came across this as an excellent example of the potential of the Poser 5 Face Room.

Wow, you are right! That is a wonderful character!

Sorry guys, the beonce one is ok, but I don't see the likeness in any of the other models.

Deecey, as I said before theres a million ways to skin a cat. When I want to create a face or body texture, I load the UV map in Photoshop and paint/clone on it. Using Face Room for this seems overly complicated, but thats just for my own purposes. No one way is better than the other, its just about your own personal workflow. The tex you've created looks good but I'd like to see a color match on the body. Also, Judy has very few textures available so you're either going to be making body textures from scratch or using her default texture which is very lo res. Heres an older attempt I made at cloning by creating a custom texture from source photos and then morphing the face. Im not going to name the celeb and I doubt anybody will guess it. Although these pics were a failure to me I did learn a valuable lesson regarding cloning; The mesh must fit the texture and not the other way around, as is usually the case in 3D texturing. When transforming a source picture into a 2D map there is too much editing needed to fit it onto the UV template and the basic facial structure is lost. as usual, this thread has gone wayyyyyyy OT and lost itself in an endless tangent. I never meant for this to be a debate about the value of FaceRoom, or the merits and drawbacks of FaceGen as a 3D app. I do take partial responsibility this lack of clarity and focus, as I did reference and participate in those parallel debates. But the bottom line is, if you ever wanted to digitally clone a real person, there is a formula that allows you to do it. Whether you choose to use that formula, just enjoy the results or scoff at the whole thing is at your own discretion. :)

And again I say you do beautiful work - so you CAN say that your results were enjoyed. 8-)

TY Deecey, my motivation in all the pics I make is to entertain and please the people who view them and occasionally pass on whatever knowledge I've acquired :)

"... Judy has very few textures available ..." Judy can wear all Vicky/Vicky 2 textures. (Same UV Map) So there are a lot of textures available.

Anybody recognize this guy?

its not george dubya, by any chance ?

Raw Meat, Batronyx. Raw Meat. And an absolutely incredible job of it. lol Any chance you'll make that face setting available in freestuff? Also, I would like to address two points, but neither are an attack of any sort: "...using the mediocre Don and Judy figures." (9) "But Judy is a failed figure with no support so using her is an exercise in futility. My figure of choice is V2 and her morphing clothes pack, as that is a widely supported figure with a large library of textures, clothes, etc."(29) The team who made the "lost in space folks" actually did an incredible job with them. The meshes are economical and the body shape is rather more human looking than the idealized form of other figures. As for support, Judy has all the resources of the stuff that comes with Poser 5 itself -- usually deleted simply because she's "not Victoria" and therefore somehow useless. There are a great many free items available for Judy, and she was specifically designed to take V2 maps accurately. What there is not in existence for her at this time is a large body of Sold work for her -- both because merchants don't think people will buy stuff for her and because people don't see anything out there for her. Furthermore, on the basis of distribution, she is hardly a failed figure -- if you have Poser 5, you have her. And she is easily as capable of changes as victoria is. The morph putty tool is seriously overlooked (and it works on any figure), and the face room is only starting to be looked at as a serious tool because just like all the other new things in P5, you have to learn it, and it is not as easy as it looks. (but people hate different, don't like to learn, and lampoon what they do not understand -- have forever) On the other hand, why in heaven's name would you want to spend time doing that when you've just spent a huge sum on the elements for V3? You have to get the value out of it! And, lastly, I want to say that you do some really awesome work, Zarabanda, and that your formula (which I will have to take the time to learn, lol) seems pretty cool.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Well put ynsaen,
Ive seen some really stellar work on judy and frankly I need a break for the huge force and loads of stuff that is V3. I have seen some very well done and realistic figure with ehr that have me honestly making me rethink her and the rest of the lost in space crew...

Looks like Johnny Cash, kinda. :> TMG

this was made 100 percent in poser , its v3 base

Some people can do realistic celebrity modelling without a image texture pic! All it takes is for one person to make and release the mesh onto the web and then that celebrity is 'done'. Don't people think this will eventually happen to all celebrities? Check out this pic by Mihai Anghelescu. From www.xmg.ro/miahi/index.htm

Now THAT is impressive! It looks JUST like Alan Alda! ;-) (j/k - it really is amazing!)

looks just like bruce, the important thing is to get the mesh looking like the celebrity without any texture at all, if u can doo this the most of the hard work is done, also it is important to find good reference pictures from many angles and study the person you are cloning , the Jolie morph took 20 minutes to create using V3 head morphs and V3 head sculpture pak, facegen looks good , but if the mesh is not compatible with v3 then it wouldnt be of use to me as a brokered artist. erm, what mesh was that bruce clone? mike 3? or another, was it morphed externally or in poser??

It appears to me as though it is an original mesh, but I might be mistaken.

Hi to all I'm following this problem since the beginning and this is my considerations: 1 - cloning a celebrity....where is the problem? if i want a render with britney spears i try to do something close to the original britney.....or i'll make a render with a unknow girl, but the cool thing of the 3d program like poser is that you can realize your fantasy ^^ 2 -Why in the whole internet is impossible to find celebrity morphs or models? the copyright laws protect the person agaisnt the one that want to sell those characters...if you do a celebrity (example britney spears) and you want to rename as "bratney Spars" and give it for free....where is the problem?????? all the sites that has those models are closed :((((( this is the freedom of internet? 3 - Facegen VS poser faceroom: who cares what kind of tool you use? if the results are good noone will be interested in what kind of tool is used; the artist will ask only about the method that is used ^^ for me both are hard because i'm a beginner :D but seem that facegen (i bought it, but i've not so much money to buy the service that transform the pctures in a fg file T_T) is amazing for the creation of faces from pictures (faceroom is a little bit tricky.....i never had decent results but i'm still work hard on it^^), but faceroom also is good, as i seen in the picture linked some posts before. I'm interested only in the final result.....sometimes i see the same discussion as when the peoples was fighting for what was the best computer between commodore amiga and atari ST, or C64 and Spectrum ^^ This is what i think......maybe i'm right; maybe i'm wrong; but the celebrity cloning is something that a lot of people that use 3d do, and many people search celebrity on internet for their render ;) so let's work to do a concrete post, instead of fighting if is legal to do it , or if facegen is better than faceroom :P

Where can I get this stuff? Digital Cloning is not under the Link by renderotica. Greetings Lupa