I have an issue I'd like to discuss, namely the user profile and admins, and bans. Why do they never get erased or reset ? I am currently on my last warning here - I got a slap in 2002 when I asked Spike to give me one, I was brawling in the OT with Alleycat. I got another one a month ago for the creative use of the word fuckwit in the OT in a thread with Geep Lesson learned: Spinner shouldnt be let loose in the OT and I do generally stay out of it. However, if you look at the time-span between warnings, that averages about one a year. So I guess I'll get my next, and final slap for ToS violation (being rude to fellow rendo-ites)in the beginning of 2005. Now - I have been a member here since early 2001 - and before that I had a different nick. I spend money in the store when I see something I like, I generally behave myself, and am a fairly normal member of the community who sometimes just gets bouts of fuckwit-itis. I bet the majority of members are just like me. So - what is the reason for rendo not to i.e reset the ToS violation list on a yearly basis ? It's not like you'll lose previous data or encourage people to act in a manner not in compliance with the ToS ? If someone is a major pain in the ass, you can always ban anyway ? Most places I know of wipe the slate with regular intervals. It is law here, actually (and dont give me that about following the laws in Tennessee - it's an example, not a demand :-)) I am not asking for my slate to be wiped right now - I am asking why it never gets reset. ~S

I suppose that's a reasonable enough question which although I can't personally answer at the moment, I'm sure someone can (Like Spike maybe, ah..Spike?) In the state I live (in a different country to the U.S.A so I guess this is just another example of what you are refering to) 3 years after a driving offense (such as a minor speeding or traffic violation) that particular transgression gets wiped and demerit points against your drivers licence are restored. Of course there are some (more serious) transgressions that "stick" so to speak, and I would dare say some transgressions here might fall into that basket, but perhaps not all.

I have 2 warning as well, but they are very old, way over a year, and I would like them wiped as well, not that I am planning on going on a flame binge or anything though.

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

I think that's a pretty reasonable request. I know people who have had problems during a certain period, and been wondeful contributors to the community the rest of the time. I wouldn't want to find someone had been banned for things that happened a year apart. That isn't a persistence of bad behavior but just a loss of temper here and there, which happens to many of us because we get pushed to react by other people around here who get pleasure out of making lives miserable for no particularly good reason. I hope the adminstrators consider a time limit on the penalities...it makes good sense to me.

What means fuckwit?

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

stommeling ~S

Ok ... what is stommeling, I cannot find that in my dictionary either. If that is such a bad word then I need to know ;-).

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

fuckwit, means like dummy-stupid, that is my interpritation of it, it has a little more deeper meaning but that is close. stommeling = ?

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

I thought it meant a male whose brain was basically in his pants. Live and learn. ;) I haven't a clue about the other one.

Sorry, Linguistc error, I thought Punto was Dutch. But O'death's interpretation si close enough. Depp is probably closest in German... ~S

So, a fool, more or less? Who says the forums aren't educational?

:)

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

Before we get any more eudcational, I'd really like to know my potential ban-options, though ;-) ~S

And it would also be considered a personal attack. I never got a black mark for fighting though, one was for an image that was of a handycapped person, that I am sure you have all seen dealing with fighting on the internet, and the special olympics, the mod that warned me knew where I was comoing from and was in agreement but said that that type of derogitory imagry was a violation, and the other was also for an image in the gallery of a woman giving birth, some people thought that since the baby was blueish that it was dead, but having just had a new born at the time I can assure you that they do infact come out blue cause the lack of o2 in the womb, and was suspended for that as well. I have tried to get the marks off my name, and the mod I talked to recently said they didn't have access to that info so I dropped it.

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

Yes, it could be seen as a personal attack - and I have no problem with that - it was, because I got fed up with ignorance. I just dont think that calling someone a fuckwit in 2004 should have any bearings on anything I may or may not say in 2007, to put it into a perspective. As an example, the ToS has changed at least three times, as far as I -remember- top off my head since my first warning. Should new changes in specific areas of ToS affect warning status, for instance ? I havent seen those images, Odeath, so I can't comment on that, but if the ToS changes, that should have some effect on artistic or (some) verbiage Again - I want to raise the question and invite to a fairly civilsed discussion - I am not after slamming anyone, or attacking the PtB; I can misbehave to my hearts content elsewhere ;-) ~S

Nothing like a yahoo chat room to take yoru frustrations out on LOL. Yeah I totally agree with what you are saying, as I havn't spouted off in quite some time, I feel that my record should be wiped clean as well. I no longer feel the need to be contrivertial (sic) I rarly post to the gallery anymore, just cause they get buried so fast, and I tend to try and bypass the flame wars here, but on that slim chance that I say something wrong, I would get the boot and I do not want that happening either. AFAIK, there is noremoving of the black marks against our names. You may want to IM Clint directly about this though, I was going to but meh!, I am lazy :)

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

I think anyone who is an administrator (Spike, ClintH, DeeMarie, etc.) could facilitate with the removal of black marks against names if all the administrators, and powers that be, agree that it should be done.

thing is, Spike has already stated that warnings will not be removed.. so even if you gain 2 over a period of 5 years... the 3rd will get you banned. fair? nope.

I think that's a really nice thought, dialyn, but I can see one major flaw, and that is that you are making the process, should it ever be implemented, people dependent. Making a process people-dependent, opens for bias, and that is -begging- for trouble, you know as well as I which kind of witchhunt threads that could generate, and there would always be a possibility that it'd be with a reason. ( I work as a project manager - if there is something I know, it's process and people ;-)) I'd like to propose a generic reset every year or other year - If the admins are open for that, I have some additional thoughts on how to implement it. ~S

Oh, and I IM'd Clint ~S

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=1639517&Reply=1642063#29

right.. quote Spike - from the post at the time this policy was inflicted on us all '1. How can you find out how many warnings etc. you are at? Ask an admin. 2. Do warnings expire? No 3. If so, after how long? See #2 4. What are the appeal abilities? Contact admin. 5. What if you're banned and need access to your past purchases? Contact store@renderosity.com. We will work with the previous buyer to get the products to them as needed. 6. What if you need access to past purchases because of copyright infringements done by others? Contact store@renderosity.com. We will work with the previous buyer to get the products to them as needed. 7. What if you're a banned merchant- what happens to your money? Any outstanding balances are sent to the merchant on the next payment cycle. 8. What if you're a banned merchant- does your store get closed ASAP? Yes. 9. Can you get updates out to those that purchased from you? Not through the site. However, if you have a list of buyers and their contact info, you can do this on your own. Afterall, what would be the point of banning a member if they were allowed to come right back? 10. Does your gallery get deleted ASAP, or do you actually have to request that? Yes 11. Do all of your posts get deleted? No (only the ones that are outside of the TOS will be removed)'

I think there is always a possibility for change. And I will keep optimistic that a change in the policy is possible when the request is reasonable. And I'm not known for my optimism. And you all can laugh at me, if you like, but I will still believe that. There were no doubt reasons the policy was written the way it was. That doesn't mean it can't be rewritten to allow for the fact that people can change. And people do. We're talking about incidents which were more a moment of temper than persistent bad behavior. I would hope some allowance would be made for them. Perhaps, given time and reasoned requests, they will. That's about all I can say on that. Take care all. :)

fuckwit Noun. An idiot English slang and colloquialisms used in the United Kingdom ...I love my WordWeb SWAMP

Dialyn - I interpreted what you said as all admins and mods having to agree on something like this on a per-person basis. And I saw that as unwieldy and people-dependent. Khai - leave former grievances and threads out of this please. I am not after a Spike bashing or a rendo-bad, any other site good kinda shitfight, ok ? I have a request. It's a reasonable one. The thread you are referring to was in connection with a change of ToS, and the way you are phrasing your current comments are detrimental to that request. ~S

erm excuse me? do not accuse me of something I have not done. the above is the offical policy as stated before. I am NOT bashing spike. He made the announcement that this is policy. I thought you and others had not seen it, therefore I brought your attention to it, nothing more. please keep your facts straight and please do not accuse me of things I have not done.

Not going to go there - if you see what I say as an accusation, so be it, bash it out with me in a new thread or over IM. I have seen the thread in question - several sites carried the URL. Now, moving on, I IM'd Spike about this thread as well - but I see there are not many admins online now. ~S

No - no! Make it entertaining! Let the 2-strikers plead their case in a separate forum and have their fellow members vote their reprieve up or down. All kinds of fun to be had there. (hmmm... I think I'm kidding, ...but not really sure)

If I were feeling mean-spirited I'd say that the "never resetting" warnings is a sign of either lazy or bad programming (or possibly a poorly throught-thru site policy) but I'm not. Sooooo I'd guess that banishment for life from Renderosity is just one of those unpardonable things ;)

Thats actually cool - we could have two-warning flame-fests in an arena and the victor could get a reset. Alternately, Lundqvist could add some story-bilines about this in his work };-) However, I still do want to know the why of a no reset, people :-) ~S

well I do not know about the .ez format but I am sure that it is a simple ( well as simple as data drivin can be ) sql statement that could reset the black marks.

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

lol

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

'We're talking about incidents which were more a moment of temper than persistent bad behavior. I would hope some allowance would be made for them.'

That's a perfectly reasonable point dialyn and I wonder if the reason it is not being considered by the PTB has more to do with issues of control rather than trying to implement a reasonable and fair policy.

If you can get somebody to the point of having two indelible marks against them you have them on a very short leash. If you can succeed in achieving this with a large number of members you'll have a pretty docile crowd I would think.

This is worse than being in school or committed of crime for heavens sake...at least there after a certain period of time all is forgiven.....

Could we please at least wait until we get some kind of answer from admin regarding whether this issue is going to be looked at or not? This thread seems to be veering away from spinner's original question, which is in danger of being lost in "past greivances" and "lets knock Renderosity" type replies, it seems to me...

I agree with PC. I specifically asked and stated this --not-- be done in post #24. Respect that please ? ~S

I think it'd be reasonable to have a mark last for 6 months, then be cleared - assuming no new mark is added to it. In other words, someone gets a mark in March and goes through September (six months later) without incurring further violations, the mark is wiped. The slate is clean. Or, someone gets a mark in March, gets another in August of the same year, he's going to have to wait until February of the next year (6 months past the second mark) to have both marks cleared. Just tossing in that idea of one arrangement that might be considered.

Thanks spinner and odeathoflife for explaining. I guess Flachwichser is a good translation ;-). But anyway, back to the topic: I think Varian's suggestion is very good. Just imagine someone had a bad time three years ago and recieved 2 warnings and behaved since then and now makes one mistake and gets kicked completly. Don't think that is fair. If someone is behaving and does not make trouble anymore the old mistakes should be forgiven and the warnings removed after a period of probation.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Heh Spinner, @ #29: Nobody can accuse my stuff of being "work", I wish it were :) Expulsion wars: Two flamers enter and only only one leaves. Then the other leaves a bit later...

This seems like a viable idea, and I like Varian's suggestion as well.

The kicker is that this could actually be programmed, requiring a little investment in coding then let it run for itself, you would not need any human intervention at all when put in place.

I think it would also be reasonable to see an indicator of some sort on your account page of how many warnings you have against you vs. having to request it from an Admin/Mod. IMHO, it should have the date/time of the infraction, the reason, and the Admin/Mod who initiated it, as well.

two flamers enter.. one flamer leaves.. two flamers enter.. one flamer leaves.. two flamers enter.. one flamer leaves.. two flamers enter.. one flamer leaves.. sorry had to (mad max-that thunderdome one)

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

.

I for one think Spinner is asking a reasonable question too...just wondering when an answer is going to be forthcoming, as we all seem to be wanting to know as well.. ~Jani { who wants to throw some of her own questions out there, but who doesn't want to derail the thread anymore than it is already}

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Oh go ahead and derail it for a while. Gotta have something to read till someone comes in on Monday. :)

I agree with wiping the slate clean once in a while. Seems silly to have a mark hanging over the head for the creative use of the word "dufflebag" when we have members openly accusing newbies of warez without facts or benefit of trial for asking a simple question. It's a big site so personal attention to each and every situation could take too much time. Something in the programing makes a lot of sense.

...... Kendra

Ok, I can't stand it..:D Some of the reasons Spinner mentioned for her warnings has got me curious... I am currently on my last warning here - I got a slap in 2002 when I asked Spike to give me one, I was brawling in the OT with Alleycat. I got another one a month ago for the creative use of the word fuckwit in the OT in a thread with Geep Now, there are members here who we all know that stir the pot all the time...at 'every opportunity'..and we all know..{including the admins and mods} that these members do these things, and get heated flame fests going on purpose...using all manner of crude, rude, obscene language..my question is..why are these members not getting warnings like Spinner did..and if they are..it would seem to me, by the frequency of these members posts..they should have been banned ages ago... Why is this not the case?? There...got that off my chest. Apologies to Spinner for derailing her thread further..but couldn't stand not asking at an opportune moment.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

You'll find the generic shitstirrer element on any site, as you know, since you've been a mod ? As long as they stay within ToS - you can get pissed at them, but you dont slap them for being fuckwits ( that word again... Sorry, but I love it, even my new years resolution in 2002 was very Bridget: No more Fuckwits) ), as they are perfectly free to express themselves as they want to. Thats why we have so few who want to play with us in the RFI - we -do- slap them };-) So - now that that's cleared up,, keep it on track - entertainment can be found in the Poser forum, the modeling forum,or you can welcome Verdie back in the VT. Or you can go brawl in the OT but I'll pass this time, thank you };-) Dufflebag... - I was in that thread... Oops? ~S

I also say that penalty points should be programmed to disappear after a while. I see no justice in someone receiving an infinite amount of punishment for a finite amount of sin. The best horse may stumble some day.

---

"stommeling" is Dutch for "blockhead".

It should also be noted that along with warnings for conducting personal attacks against other members you can also recieve a (non-expiring) warning for posting an image that is deemed in violation of the TOS as well.

It's one thing that a matter of judgement decides if an image is banned or not but quite another if a member is banned as a result of that same judgement.

"Dufflebag... - I was in that thread... Oops?" :) Cool. It's historic (hysteric?) by now. :)

...... Kendra

Sure, I'll get involved in certain debates -- if it's a topic that I feel strongly about. And if I think that there is some "good" that I can actually accomplish through the debate.

However, 99% of on-line disagreements are a complete waste of time. Except, perhaps, for the entertainment value which one derives from the act of argument itself. Or the pleasure which one derives from voyuerism, for lurkers.

As for the central topic of this thread -- I would say that it's up to the admins. This is their site, and they can run it in any manner which they choose.

And one is free to attempt to persuade the admins to wipe out one's past record.

However, as in so many other cases, I don't think that this is an issue which allows for a "one size fits all" type of solution.

Think of the matter this way: one individual with "two black marks" can make a genuine effort to redeem themselves -- and thus, they might deserve a second chance. Whereas another individual with "two black marks" might be hovering on the border at all times, just waiting for the chance to strike again. Such a person should likely not have their record cleared. They are too likely to pull the same type of stunt again.

The admins should allow themselves some room for individual judgements on a case-by-case basis. The admins need to have some leeway for discretionary actions.

But I would say this: I don't think that the bad marks on one's record should be totally without appeal. I believe that one should be able to PRIVATELY make one's case for leniency. With the emphasis of understanding placed upon the word "private". A private appeal. Without a public scrap.

Not that I am criticizing spinner's handling of this issue: I am not. I believe that he has brought this subject up in a perfectly reasonable manner.

And, unlike some others, I believe that the admins here will come up with a workable solution. They almost always do.

It's just that one can never please everyone. Nor should one try to. It's a wasted effort.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Any system will have a minority of system abusers, one size never fits all. That's life. Most people find workarounds :-) I am also fully aware that rendo runs it's site as it wishes; And I dont have much of an issue with that, I am genreally anti-idiot and anti-shitstirrer, not anti-rendo. I am an adult; I ask questions in a civilised manner, and I don't cry or go on a posting binge about the unfairness of it all when the question gets a negative response. Ideally, as I have said before, a process could be implemented, I have little faith in appeals to overworked admins, becuase they could be deluged, and it'd open for mentioned posting binges. Varian had an excellent idea. By having a process, you eliminate a great deal of the "shitlist" factor, and I also think that enough mods and coordinators are around to raise red flags, should need be. Lets see what they say tomorrow or Tuesday - I don't think there will be any input from admin level before that ~S

"Posting binges" in and of themselves should represent a violation of the appeals process.

But, once again......on a case-by-case basis.

Some speeders get off with a warning: others have the book thrown at them.

It all depends upon the seriousness of the violation in question.

And, usually, the perps that scream "foul!" the loudest are those with the greatest fault. Normally, it's not hard to tell the difference.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

As you stated, we'll see what the admins say.......

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=1018240

For different opinions on different uses of a rude word, see message 32 in the thread at this link. What is a "posting binge"? Sometimes a matter arises which raises much feeling and runs to over 100 mesages in one thread without any specifically objectionable words. One such was about a version of Poser which was planned to need to be registered over the internet before it could run.

A posting binge in my book is to post at several sites about the unfairness of one action or another on this or another site. It has nothing whatsoever to do with long threads in general - I am sorry if the concept was perceived unclearly. I can't quite see the relevance of the thread you refer to in this connection, but thank you for sharing - was very amusing to see Kev use verbiage (albeit an example) - usually never se him do that };-) ~S

This permanent ban thing is a waste of time anyway. The only people who can be really banned for good are merchants. Anyone who just wants to post gallery images and troll forums can sign on again as Joe Blow from Idaho and use a different Hotmail address. Only merchants have to give their real name and postal address (else they can't get paid). So the only ones that are got rid of permanently are those also making money for Rendo. Makes sense? No. m.

Well, they do track cloned accounts so unless the person is jumping from computer network to computer network, they are probably being tracked more closely than you think. The fact is that there is very little permanently deleted from this site. Deleted messages are still there. And so is the history of members, I suspect. If the record is there, it seems to me that it is quite reasonable to put a time limit .... good grief, even people who have committed major crimes are permitted to become citizens again after they have served their time. I know that the administrators and moderators have had a hard time with members who push and push and push the limits of the rules for no good reason than they think they are proving a point and usually the point is that they want things all their own way and they believe no one else should have any rights in the matter. That only results in people cemented into taking sides and the flame wars break out. I would not put spinner in this category as regards this request, by the way. And there are members who can't resist chasing down other members until they shove them off the forums and galleries. Why members get pleasure from such activity is beyond me, but then I don't understand hackers and virus creators either. But there should be some allowance (parole, if you will) for members who just got pushed so far that they felt as if they had to push back. I've been there. So have a lot of us. To be banned because one felt harrassed or because they stood on a principle important to them seems a sad thing...especially if one has tried to change their behavior (I just refuse to read messages from certain individuals and that's lowered my blood pressure considerably), cool down the rhetoric. Perhaps some official statement will come out in the next day or two. I hope that the administrators are discussing in their board room today.

"The admins should allow themselves some room for individual judgements on a case-by-case basis. The admins need to have some leeway for discretionary actions."

The Admins/Mods have this leeway already: At any time, they can forgo the usual process and outright ban someone if they determine the actions warrant it.

The warnings, IMHO, are for Members who have not crossed the "instant ban" line and deserve a chance at proving themselves. Therefore, it seems reasonable to me that, after they have proven they can "play nice", the lesson is learned and the warning should be removed.

It's been 3 days since spinner's request on clarification and reasoning and no response from admin/staff yet?

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

The Admins/Mods have this leeway already: At any time, they can forgo the usual process and outright ban someone if they determine the actions warrant it. The warnings, IMHO, are for Members who have not crossed the "instant ban" line and deserve a chance at proving themselves. Therefore, it seems reasonable to me that, after they have proven they can "play nice", the lesson is learned and the warning should be removed. Not all actions warrant instant banning; neither do all situations warrant long-term leniency. Some problems fall in the middle. Thus......a need for flexibility.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

But none of us are advocating rigidity - so I don't quite understand where you are coming from in this context ? To reiterate: 1) Why no reset? 2) Would it be possible to reconsider? 3) Would Varian's suggestion be a feasible start on implementing a new process ? Would you please point out where you perceive the questions asked or solutions proposed to be rigid and exclude a normal parameter for flexibility ? ~S

After X amount of time, a warning should be expired. This happens with traffic violations, just as an example. In some states, if you go long enough without a violation, it's permanently removed from your record, with no trace of it ever having existed. I've also heard of systems where a violation is automatically expired after X amount of time unless you get another within a certain time from the first one, in which case the previous violation stays longer, and if you get enough violations accumulated, you lose your license. I suspect that this sort of "expiring vilation" system is what people have been suggesting. It's a means by which people can "clear their record" with good behavior and in which repeated bad behavior is only tolerated for just so long... I fair to see how this would be in any way unfair. If anything, it's fairer than the current "once warned, always warned" system. Still, I've been waiting to hear from any admin on this matter. Surely SOMEONE is listening... ? bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

They're discussing it - which is all I know, so again, if I as the thread initiator don't have an issue with waiting for a reply within -reasonable- limits after it's been a weekend, I don't see why others should be so bothered over it. I mean - at work it's sometimes taken us up to gasp two weeks, even more to come to an agreement with all the team over a process that wasn't working - I dont see this as any different, but that's just me, or maybe a Scandinavian thing, we don't do the instant gratification thing here much. Thank you for clarifying all our posts in such an insightful manner. ~S

I like this one. I think it brings up some very good points. The whole idea of warnings afterall, is to try and teach one not to break the rules. 99% of the time, it works as it should, 1% of the time we have to take harder action. So, you all feel that warnings should be removed after time? I can bring this to the rest of the admin and see what they think. Spike

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

Yeehawww Spike............

Would you please point out where you perceive the questions asked or solutions proposed to be rigid and exclude a normal parameter for flexibility ?

We don't have any major disagreements here, spinner.

Nor do I consider any of the suggestions which I have seen in this thread to be unreasonable.

However, if I were running things, I would always leave myself with an opening in the TOS for the handling of "special cases". Not all situations can be handled in the same way. There are simply too many variables which enter into the equation.

[[[One small problem with this picture. I don't run things around here. So, it's all up to those who actually do. Thus, any points which I have made are nothing more than suggestions.]]]

I refer you to my post #49. No need for me to re-state myself.

As I mentioned earlier -- you have approached this matter in a very reasonable manner.

And who can ask for more than that?

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Thanks, Spike. I figured someone was around to see these suggestions. :-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

So, you all feel that warnings should be removed after time? Yep, yep :D

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Post edited: But of course... (edit - this is a response to elizabyte's post, not jumpy's) Thanks Spike, keep us posted :-)

If not removed...downgraded to a minor scrape...maybe probation is a good model...even that ends eventually...

I agree that most of the time the warnings should reset. I hope that people will understand the idea behind it and not start a round of favoritism accusations: Why did spinner get this? Why couldn't I have gotten it x days/months/years ago? That said, I think that the admins and mods should be prepared to look at other cases if people bring up their banning due to individual TOS violations over a long stretch of time and make decisions on a case-by-case basis.

Again, if they do decide to impliment this, please allow for admin and mod discretion. There is that .001% that continually hover at the border of TOS violation - unjustly provoking others while staying just inside the TOS and causing a lot of nastiness. It might take several months, or even a year or so, for them to slip up badly enough to rack up the 3 violations for banning, even if privately everyone was hoping they'd be TOSsed out much sooner. For perpetual troublemakers, I think the resets should be not be automatic.

Just my 2 cents - which is probably only worth 1.5 as I'm brain dead right now and can't write my way into a paper bag, let alone out of one. ;-)

Cres - who has seen both sides of this issue up close. :)

Crescent -- I agree.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Again: If you let most of this be handled by a -process- and -automate- it, like i.e Varian's outline, you'll avoid most of the favouritism accusations. As for perpetual troublemakers; you take care of THOSE by having them slip up once too often on a ToS violation and then you throw the book at them and can keep them on a short leash. *shrug - I really don't understand this perpetual need to repeat the obvious by people, but again, maybe there are things here I am simply just not getting. Spike - What do the mods and admins say ? ~S

I think warnings should be removed after time...otherwise it's not fair. Work out a system that works :) your driving license does, so can Redo

We are still talking about this.... It's very deep....

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

It's good to know it is still be discussed. Thanks, Spike.

Still working on it...... This is a bigger issue than most and we want to see all sides of it before we jump one way or the other.

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

Spike, thank you very much for the updates. It's really good to know it hasn't been "shelved" or anything. ;-) bonni

"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis

actually you gallery does not get deleted if you are banned

Neither do your posts. I don't see a problem here - if you want to get the gallery deleted after a ban - just ask for it, I know they delete them on demand. ta for the updates, Spike :-) ~S

oh no, i was just saying... cause someone said they did, and they dont... nm...

Ok, Here is what we are going to do. Warnings will stay on the record for record keeping. However, they will be reviewed by the review board when requested by the member after 6 month. If the review board agrees that the strike should be removed, we will remove it. If the voilation is a major one (Copyright issues, major trolling...etc...), it might not be removed. It will be a case by case review. When we issue a new warning, we will review the members records at that time and remove old strikes as needed. We feel this is a fair way to go and hope it works out for all of you. Thanks Spike

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

reviewed when the user asks??? oh boy....

Yes, because with a database this size it would probably take a full-time person just to go through and keep it up to date... The important part is that Spike said "When we issue a new warning, we will review the members records at that time and remove old strikes as needed." so nobody will be unjustly penalised. Kev.

Hey, its a start and better than the "nothing's gonna change" you were so very eager to point out, Khai. Spike - could you please outline the procedure when it comes to the review board ? Is this a "set" set of mods, or will this be arbitrary ? Who's the contact point for such a review or removal request ? You ? Thanks for the update and at least easing up on the three is all you have forever thing :-) So.... when are you guys going to switch to Oracle ? ;-) ~S

Sounds like a great step in a very fair direction. Thanks Spike (and staff). :)

You can send your review request to any of the staff. I suggest sending it to one of the mods or me. The mods and admin will be the review board. Just fire off a IM to me or one of the mods and we will take it from there. Thanks Spike

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

"Yes, because with a database this size it would probably take a full-time person just to go through and keep it up to date..."

From a technical standpoint, you could have the database do it on it's own at scheduled times by various means; not so much as requiring any human intervention at all once the code is in place. In fact, it would be less resource-intensive than running the Marketplace or the Forums.

However, a step forward is a step forward.