Just wanted to give you an update on Mill Horse. Here are some WIP images.

Here's another

With Textures

Another texture

Another

Looks really great. What about the mane, will that be a separate piece like hair?

It'll likely be a separate conforming item, like the Charger's mane or my own transmapped freebie. I hope this one will have a fully-modeled mouth. I've contemplated making the P4 horse Mimic-compatible for years, but it doesn't have teeth or a tongue.

can you increase the bone density? His bone is too light for his body. (his legs are too thin) Looks good though.

and while I'm at it...his knees are too high. Way too high.

are his ears poseable and are there facial expression morphs? A world of image making could exist with one good horse s Hate to harp on it but puhleeez do something with his legs.

I don't think the legs are too thin if it's mean to be a quarter horse - looks very much like ideal quarter horse conformation to me ;) - but knee is too high and the eye looks a bit small. It does need more bone for most other breeds. And please do give it teeth and tongue.

The neck looks especially nice.

Will it take P4 horse poses or am I going to have to start from scratch again?

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

I think it looks good. Tons of breeds like dogs. I wonder what breed it is.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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I agree with Movida on the legs - they're too dainty compared to the rest of the horse. Will it have morphs for leg thickness ? And until this is moved to showcase, will it follow the dog and have a LE version and then tons of add ons ? ~S

You know looking at pictures of our horses, I have to retract a statement - I don't think the legs are too thin for any breed. This is a picture of one of our Friesian mares (a light draft breed with a lot of bone) and look at how thin her legs are compared to her body. (the foal is a Friesian too - just one of the rare chestnuts that pop up from time to time).

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Having worked with horses all my life, I have to second the motion that his bone structure in his legs is a bit too light. IMO, the body is ideal for a QH, but the legs too thin, knees too high, and hooves too small. He has Thoroughbred or Arabian legs on a QH body. I'm not sure if the eye just appears small or if there is too much lid closed over it.

He's definitely a big improvement over the P4 horse, that's for sure :)

The hooves are definitely on the small size but on the whole it looks just like the QH type they were trying for in the 80'shalter classes - big muscluar body on delicate legs with tiny hooves - a fad that didn't last long, of course as soon as they tried to ride the poor things to any extent they tended to go lame. :)

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Anton, you're right, it really should be in the Product Showcase forum. I think it was posted here by mistake. I asked one of the admins to move the thread. Sorry for any hard feelings! Cres - who has a little experience with thread bumps. ;-)

Attached Link: http://home.iae.nl/users/lijssel/nederlnd/goudsmid2.html

Daio - the Friesian looks proportionate - the legs on the new millennium horse don't, in my opinion, gorgeous as it is. As an example - here's a link to another Dutch horse, a Gelders Paard (is that just Gelder horse? ) It's closer to the millenium horse in build than your beautiful mare, and look at it's legs ~S

Attached Link: http://home.iae.nl/users/lijssel/nederlnd/GeldersPaard.htm

oops - page link here:

Daio - Exactly. Too small feet = Lame horses :) We don't want a lame Milhorse. I still think the knee and lower leg are much too delicate for that body that is being displayed in the sample images. As far as proportional goes, anyway. I'd much rather be able to morph a horse to an 80s QH than have it's body shape be that of one all the time.

You may be right. Looking at pix of my Arab stallion(okay you can't see it well in this pix but it's the only one I have scanned in right now and my scanner is on the fritz) he has a lot more bone than this model.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

I like the lean, thoroughbred look. Leave the legs, and change the body to match. ;-) And please, please, get MoonRose to do some textures!

Why'd the 80's QH fad with tiny hooves start in the first place? i am none too familiar with American horse breeds, but QHs are the rodeo horses, yes ? didnt they need a solid base to stand on ? ~S

And yes, my family likes black horses ;)

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

i'm sooooo happy they're making a new horse..... even if it has small flaws! i can hardly wait for it :)

It was a halter thing not a perfomance thing - they wanted these really super-muscled horses for some reason. Of course, they Arab people want them to act insane in halter classes...why I don't show my Arab in halter classes - I'd much rather he remain his laid-back self.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

I can get the current P4 horse to look decent but it's a heck of a lot of work (and postwork) so I'm looking forward to a better horse too.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Arab halter class.. now theres some memories. Been ages since I have been in a show ring. All in all, I'm looking forward to a new horse. The charger and the p4 need to be retired from my library :)

Looks pretty good to me! I'm not a horse person, but I was working on my own Poser horse, it does (also) look to me like the knees are a tiny bit too high and the leg heavyness is a slight missmatch for the rest of the horse. I wonder why the triple bands of mesh on the belly, I can't think what that would be for, other than some kind of belly-stripe morph... I wonder if DAZ is going to do something special with the mane and/or tail? That is something I wanted to do for sure past what the P4 horse has. Mind you, I hadn't figured out exactly how to do what I wanted... ;-) I hope this isn't moved to Product Showcase, BTW.

ribcage morphs, maybe ? I dont mind the thread's location. I am just enjoying horsing out :-D ~S

Attached Link: http://www.newrider.com/Library/Misc_Tips/skeleton.html

Equine skeleton... ~S

I wonder why the triple bands of mesh on the belly ....

ribcage morphs, maybe ?

Definitely rib morphs, for those half-starved/zombie/nag/beating-a-dead-horse pics.

Yeah, I thought of that after the post, but horses don't often show any rib bumps, do they, unless they are starving or something? Like I said, I'm not a horse person, just a mesh maker. ;-)

The reason this was posted here is because it is a WIP and we wanted input. Thanks from all of you and we encourage more. These things are easier to resolve before the product ships. As far as the rib morphs....

spinner: I went and looked at the Gelders Paard, very nice, that's what the Millennium Horse should look like. If you're going to do it might as well do it right. Reminds me of one of my favorite breeds - Cleveland Bay (carriage horses). Nice to know there are a few horse people here s

I, For one, will be glad to see whatever they come up with. As they said..this is a work in progress..and they posted in order to get feedback. For my 2 cents worth, I hope they don't make us horse lovers start all over AGAIN in collecting textures and poses. Either that, or give us a decent selection of textures and poses included in the original package

Well either way I am sure you will be able to morphs or scale it to certain degrees. And you know there will be morph packs down the road too.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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Actually it's not close to a Morgan. As a long time Morgan lover and former owner of 2 Morgans, he's way too body heavy to be Morgan type. I'm with Daio on this one, 80s QH. Definitely :) Morphs, rib or otherwise, will be very welcome. Morphing the current P4 horse is a challenge at best. I'm sure the mapping will be totally different from the old P4, considering the looks of this new mesh, so all new textures I would imagine. A conforming poseable mane would be great as an add on.

I looked through my books. I think it is a thoroughbred, anglo-arab or a Hanoverian. The horse looks fantastic. BUT...if it is still WIP and you are wanting input, then the knees are too high. And the shins are too spindly, even for a Persian Arab or a Show Pony. I would thicken the shins. I couldn't find a breed with shins that delicate.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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If you are considering the legs, a morph at least, like this one to make them thicker would be a good idea.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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PS: Only mentioning this beacuse you insist you aren't done. Can you do something different with the tail, perhaps duplicate the geometry and then fip it and taper inside the other. The current cyclider looks like a cyclider at the end. Your horse looks so good. It deserve a better tail. This one is very crude compared to the horse itself.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Anton, You mean something more along the lines of this for the tail? It does seem to need a little more work instead of being just cut off like it is now.

The drawing in #41 also has his knees too high and hind legs are bad, the bone in #44 is beautiful and the WIP horse is also "back at the knee" at least on his right front and looks "toed in" on his left front. Conformational errors in the model will make posing much more difficult and unrealistic. As long as it's a WIP might as well mention it. If they post full frontal and rear views and full side views it'll be easier to see for sure. Hope they fix it and I'm not being a shit here, but these things are very important.

Yeah it has to be a complete mane of hair(no pun intended). Right now is looks a bit recycled. I thought the horse was done, and too late to work on it. If they aren't done it would be great if the tail was more dynamic. I say chop that one off completely and just have conforming ones. All the horses up to now have had short manes. I say all the hair be conforming with long options that are layered, curly, and staggered. Not just the same crew cuts

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

"I say chop that one off completely and just have conforming ones." "I say all the hair be conforming with long options that are layered, curly, and staggered." Yeah, that's a good idea.

Why would it be too late to work on it? Don't they have "saves"? What did they use for source material? Did they have anyone that had ever even seen a horse look at it during the modelling phase?

#5 looks faintly green to me too, but only after you mentioned it and I went back and look. I was too involved with his leg conformation up to now to notice s Got to go to work.

On one of my monitors it does look a bit greenish but it looks fine on the other. shrug

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

ah might be the lights.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

This does look like an vast improvement... The biggest things I see so far are what everyone has about the hoofs and bone size and also the neck in the first wireframe pic with the horse grazing doesn't look right either. It shouldn't have the bump in it. A morph would take care of that though. Ed

Oh great, while you're at it can we have Sancho's donkey too? And a mule as well?

Here's the Centaur

The first breed morphs pack will include: Draft (Percheron) Quarterhorse Shetland Arabian Thoroughbred Zebra Donkey Mule Additionally there will be the Centaur, Pegasus and Unicorn. The mouth will be posable, will open and have Mimic Phonemes for you Mr. Ed fans.

Why isn't he colored pink?

PINK?

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I thought that all ponies were pink.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I'm wondering if the Morphs will fix the leg issues. They are definitely too thin. IMO, it really shows on the centaur. Any chance we can see a peek at what the morphs look like? :D

Will there be a dapple grey texture in the pack? I'm not really a horse person, but I've always loved dapple greys... no matter what the breed...

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

Head morphs include: Mimic Phonemes Snarl L/R Chew L/R Open Mouth Nostrils Flaring Yell Lip Morphs Basic Expressions Blink Wince Brow Up/Down Brow Worry Eye Smile Body Morphs include: Pregnant Mal-nourished Fetlock Morphs Muscular Necks Shoulders Serratus Quarters FBM Combo Hoof Morphs Wide Sharp Size Mare Gelding We will also have a strong set of initial poses. Hope this answers some of your questions. We'll show some morphs next week...

lol I'm looking forwards to seeing Mr. Ed type animations.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

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Looking forward to the morph images. :D

MMMMM...sounds like a nice choice of breeds..Yay for Donkey !! And in head morphs..one everyons seems to forget..but is a pretty common expression,,esp for stallions...Flehmen. You know..that one where horse has smelt something REALLY interesting..head up, lips curled RIGHT back ??

lol I'm looking forwards to seeing Mr. Ed type animations.

Ed? (MPEG format, 385KB)

This has been squatting on my hard drive for over a year. I made it shortly after purchasing the Charger.

.

tee hee Sadly I don't seem to get sound? (Mac, Safari, Quicktime)

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

Try right-clicking and saving to your hard drive, if your browser supports it. The sound works on my PC with QuickTime 6.5.

Okay it would seem it is too late for changes but guys really think about this. This is the type of hair people want. Especially if you are doing a unicorn the hair has to be to die for. I would hold on to it a bit longer if the tail and manes can eb improved. As long as there is time, I could make them as a hair pack. I will have to email you guys again monday. Up to you guys -Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I have to second that motion. I'd love a mane and tail like that. Fabulous image, Anton.

... if you guys have if finished. (And models do not get to the texture artists until they are complete, grouped, jointed, and mapped.) You aren't asking for hints to improve it, you are showing off "a done deed" and you are trying to get us to slobber all over it and bring out our wallets. Thanks to the admin for moving it to Product Showcase, where all sales pitches belong. That said, this horse is an improvment over the P4 horse, but it still is a spindly-legged animal, with bad withers. I asked elsewhere for a back view because I have my doubts there, too. My preference is for Arabs, but I have ridden mostly quarter horses, and this one will not stand up to the trail. By the time I was 3, I was drawing recognizable horses (that was 50 years ago), but I wouldn't put my sig on one with legs like a deer! Considering the problems Lyne has had morphing the MilDog, this beast might not be morphable, either... especially if it starts out with poor proportions. And the centaur is even worse!!! Why does he have what the Brits call "brewer's droop" and we Americans call a "beer belly" hanging down like that? If the legs won't support a horse head, they certainly won't support half the weight of a man!!! And it looks like two plastic models glued together with no sense of how the underlying skeleton and organs would be arranged. (And it also looks like the glue melted.) Please, when you are making a figure, think about it as a life form not just a cluster of polygons! Yes, we are dying to get our hands on an improved horse, but after all this time, give us a good one. Carolly, not impressed

I third it. Conforming mane/tail figures would be ideal. Would be necessary, I would think, if it's going to have a donkey morph. With separate "wigs," you could have cropped, long and flowing, or something in between. Or even braided, if the pixies have been into the barn... ;-)

A horse is a horse, of course, of course and that is all I want..a horse that is a horse. bring it on...

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

This is one of the best adaptations of a Centaur in artwork. It is a statue by Rimmer called "The dying Centaur". I was lucky enough to see this in person and have a photo I took somewhere, but here is one I found on the web. Notice that the chest muscles of the horse become the ab/pelvis of the man. Carolly is right. the front legs have to he more powerful to sustain a torso. -Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

OK. Home from work :). Are you guys (DAZ) going to fix the conformational errors? Why did you not get correct reference material or at least show it to someone who did realize how gross the errors are? Go Carolly :) Go Anton - all your pics have correct bone weight for the body size If anyone tries to animate that beast it's really going to show even if they don't know squat about horses. His stride (what's left of it after his knees knock his jaw off) will be choppy/short/stilted. Not to mention the fat lip he'll have. If this is a WIP it can be fixed. If not, then as was mentioned before you're trying to drum up support/anticipation/grabbing of credit cards. If it were an incredible animal there would be no problem. I don't want a horse with a centaur living in it. I want a GOOD horse.

and just for the record...for want of a nail...there's a message in there

notice DAZ on both Anton's pic of the (I think Lippizan) and Daio's pic of her black stallion that the forearm bone (the one coming out of his shoulder) is MUCH longer than the cannon bone (the one below the knee). It's much more evident on Anton's pic because the animal is out in the open. Also notice how the length of the forearm bone and the proportions of forearm/cannon bone affect the length of stride and reach (that's the front legs moving outward).

also notice the "give" in the fetlock (the little joint directly connecting the hoof upwards). There's a lot of "give" in that little joint which allows the horse to "spring" back up off his feet/legs. In Anton's pic it's very evident in the hind legs.

think its an andalusian, movida... ~S

Gee, you guys are being tough on DAZ! ;-) Nobody seemed to pick up on the fact that aparently it can graze, something the P4 horse can't even get close to. Incidently, I gravitated to the same problems mentioned when I was actively working on my horse, too-thin legs and too-high knees, I think it comes from doing so many female figures!

Thanks spinner, I wasn't sure. Beautiful animal. Horses are so incredibly beautiful that it burns me more than anything to see an opportunity so wasted. Jim: how many pics are going to have him grazing? It is an improvement but most pictures will be action pics. He needs to be able to move. But, as long as you mentioned his neck, it's set on too low. Look at Bloodsongs' Heavy Horse. He has an incredible neck/shoulder

Being a "horse person" as much as a cat person...I was curious... but oooh dear.. those "deer legs".. ! The ears are so tiny and do not have the shape, especially at the base of the ear that would make it "real"....and no look inside it's mouth? Bloodsong made the most beautiful "horse mouth parts" for our Ultimate Poser Horse FREEBIE and all who joined in on it have come up with some pretty credible breeds....I am not so inclinded to morph ANOTHER horse myself... I will probably get this one, IF the legs are made into horse legs... and if we see a profile pic that will really show it's conformation...MAYBE... Lyne

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

All of you are correct -- the proportions just don't look right at all.......

REAL horses are shaped entirely differently.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

How could they possibly make such a mistake?

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I think that I'll sue!!!!!!

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

ROFL xenophonz! I just LOVE your little mini's!!!! Totally adorable!!!

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

One question... you are using the term Mil Horse... is that a definite statement this is being brokered through DAZ?

it's a DAZ creation. I also just noticed he's got the same defect in his rear pastern (I always mess up pastern/fetlock) that the P4 horse does. It flexes up/out instead of down/in???? Look at his inside left hoof in #2 where he's rearing.

They're probably still doing some work on it. I think I like the big cat a little better though :)

Is the Big cat another one of the Mil releases they have planned?

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=1604613

I can't believe DAZ didn't run it by the horsey set before it was set in stone. I'm not a horse person, but I know how picky horse people are, and often ask their advice first before doing horse art. Presumably people are going to be using this model as many used the dog and cat models - to do portraits of actual companion animals. So accuracy will be important. Yes, it can graze, but so can EdW's morphed P4 horse. I'm eager for a new horse, but I'd rather they wait and get it right. Especially if the leg length is going to affect gait. As you may know, the topic of horses' gaits is a Big Deal among horse people, and if it doesn't look right...well, that would suck. :-) And the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of separate, conforming mane and tail figures. If Mike 3 can have a conforming weenie, why can't the horse have a conforming tail? Seems like this would be a great way to deal with the problem of system resources, too. People who have older machines could use a low-res version, or leave off the mane and tail entirely, and add them with postwork. Or if you wanted to do a whole herd of horses, low-res manes and tails would be enough. If you have a top of the line machine and are doing a closeup, though, load up the high-res mane figure! As for the centaur - I realize it's a WIP, but I don't like it so far. I think I'd be more likely to buy Sixus1's centaur, though it's more musclebound than I care for. (See link.) I really like Anton's pic. Now that's a centaur!

Anton, they have the preview of the big cat in the DAZ forum. I don't know if that is part of the 6-figure plan you were talking about earlier...

In regards to the Centaur, your input has been very helpful, although what Bryan posted was a very early WIP and has no bearing on the state of the current or intended final builds of the product. More images will be posted after the mesh has been finalized and the joints completed. Ron DeFreitas DraX Multimedia Designs

Thanks to all of you for your excellent feedback. Tony Brandt will post a list tomorrow of all the new changes we will incorporate in the Mill Horse thanks to your input. And yes, the Centaur was a VERY EARLY WIP. We are confident that Ron will make this an outstanding DAZ product.

I found this for DAZ: http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Conformation/BodyParts.htm not being snotty but I hope you guys look at it because he's got a rear end too. There are pictures and explanations of "good" and "bad"

I can't tell by the post whether they are done with the horse or not. If you're so unhappy with the result, it might be better to wait for the Cubed horse.

What is the Cubed horse?

the littlebrother of the squared horse... ;-) ~S

CUBED is the company that supplies content for poser 5. They are reworking the P4 animals.

well actually that is a bit tricky. CL had wroongly granted permision but Daz holds copyright over some meshes. I think what Cubed have planned now will probably be from scratch.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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That would seem correct. I'm just saying that people should give the MilHorse a chance and if it isn't up to their standards there will be another one coming out.

People will give it a chance I am sure. Intense feedback has to be understood for what it is at times. Usually it is because people care deeply. Sometimes it is vindictive or manipulative but I think everyone here sees alot of potential and just wants it to be as great as possible. For some people who have been around for several years and have bought three horses already, feedback from the past seemingliy ignored/forgotten can rush to the surface. In this case I think people are vocal because they really want it to be perfect seeing how far along it is already. And if you ask for feedback you better stand back. :) It can knock you off your feet if it catches you off guard.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

"And if you ask for feedback you better stand back. :) It can knock you off your feet if it catches you off guard. " Amen, Brother !! :) It just goes to show how passionate folks can get over their favourite animal. I, for one, am hoping for some good donkey textures..complete with shoulder cross and dorsal stripe :) I know maybe I'm asking a bit much in advance, but any idea just HOW it will be released ? (not when, we've all seen relase dates slip). Is it planned to go the same way as Mil cat and dog ? The mesh at realtively give-away price..but without any texture ? I, for one, would be much happier if the 'starter-pack' for new releases could contain at least one, basic texture. So we can actually get some idea of the models potential straight out of the box ?

The animal textures are made by other people. They are not Daz's to include.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

I've got Bloodsongs' Heavy Horse and he is conformationally correct. The mesh held up well even with the major scaling I did in Poser to get him looking like a light horse. I'm going to play with the mesh in Lightwave and see what I can do to refine it; I'm sure it can be done. He's wonderful but another horse is always welcome here g I'll probably get this one to see what I can do with it. I'm upset with the impending Mil Horse because with all their resources DAZ should do an incredible job with it. Why didn't they just ask???? Familiarity with your subject matter is essential to re-creating same. If they released a horse that was conformationally correct as a base model (even with the breed morph pack separate) and let 3rd party modellers do add-ons and further morph packs they'd be making a good business decision. What I can't understand again, is, why did they not do the simplest research? I searched google for "horse coformation" and got many, many hits...and many with pictures.

spinner: g sounded like it was a menue item

Sorry, what is this coformation? I am not a horse person but I would have no clue to look under "horse coformation" in a google search ... Just a curious poser user etc. And one reason that they can't ask is perhaps because then nothing would ever be finished. Each person would come with their own nit picks and it would be another number of months. That is just with horses. With people it is even worse since each person has their own agenda of what they want , some people like thin people, some musclebound, some average, some ugly, some pretty ... it is a never ending series of wants that would delay things. Just my 2 cents ..

Sorry Ghost: "Horse Conformation" the basic proportions of the body structure. You know, like a persons leg is not 80% of their height. This is a basic necessity for the horse. If it is not conformed properly it can not function. They're not like dogs you know, with 1 breed having legs 2" long and another having legs 20" long. Basic conformation rules apply across the board. It's not a preferential thing or a matter of taste. A draft horse will have the same proportions of bone lengths as a light horse. He may have more size/weight/muscle but his forearm bone will STILL be of the same proportions to his cannon bone as a light horse. And calf-kneed (back at the knee) is still calf-kneed in either. Basic Conformation. That's what I meant they should have asked about. "Is this a good horse" regarding its conformation. If it is not, then you can't pose it realistically (because it's impossible) and your images will look "off" for some unfathomable reason. There is a whole genre of images undone because the animal that was responsible for even getting across this country let alone building it, has been relegated to the status of a toy. We have the abiity to give the various Vicky's 20 different lip shapes but not a good horse. While she may work on in the saloon, nobody will be able to get there s because their horses can't walk.

that should have been "while vicky may work "ok" in the saloon..."

Cool ... But unless you are familiar with horses you might not know that term to look it up on google :) Or even to ask about it. For the most part you will ask "Does this look good?" and people will say yes or no. But they ae working on a fix for the legs as they have said so hopefully it will all be settled.

Agreed, but not acceptable. Hope they fix it.

Here is a sneak peek at what is coming from ToxicAngel and myself. These images are for the Charger but there will be a set of armor coming for the Milhorse as well. Its not going to be the same set, it will be a whole new set but along the same lines. Sorry about the large image but I wanted to show you all the various textures for it:) As soon as I have some images of the Milhorse armor I will post those as well:)

And a detailed image:)

oh i'll be buying that charger armor for sure! :D

The Armor is amazing, really beatiful. I hate to ask, will you have a rusty, battle worn set too?

Hello Everyone, After reading all of this detailed feedback, we had a meeting of the minds yesterday and came up with a list of additional items that we've added to our "to do" list. While a good portion of what has been mentioned in this thread consists of items that are still under production at this point, there have also been several good points brought to light that we've decided to incorporate into the final product. Here is a list of items that we are working on before the Mill Horse will be released: All Mil Horse hair (mane, tail and fetlocks) will be a conforming hair figure for the Mil Horse. This confroming figure will include multiple layers for the mane, fetlocks and tail so accurate transparency mapping can be done. The legs will be thickened up and shape changes made to the legs so the Mil Horse base will be more accurate according to what a Quarter Horse should look like. The final hoof size will be increased by 10-20% from what you see in the previews that have been posted. We haven't decided on the exact amount as yet because comparison of the final hoof size to horse reference images, to verify accuracy, still needs to be made. The neck does indeed come into the chest too low, so the neck to chest transition will be fixed. We will be adding morphs that thicken the legs further; to make the back more swayed, or to remove the sway from the back if desired. There will also be a cloven hoof morph included and a morph to bulk up the back of the neck; as well as a morph to thicken the neck. Oh and thanks, Movida, for the Gaited Horses link. I think that should be very helpful in making sure the horse isn't bowlegged or tied-in. It also proves to be very useful in proper naming of the horse's body parts. There are a number of things mentioned above that we have already incorporated into the Mil Horse. These items consist of poseable ears, morphs to move the horse's mouth and lips (yes the horse will be Mimic compatible), fully modelled hooves, morphs to show the ribs, morphs for a deathly looking emaciated horse :), and more. Also, by way of information, we have a number of horse textures commissioned from various texture artists that will be wholly owned by DAZ and may possibly be included in the Millennium Horse package. Packaging has not been decided as of yet, but there are upwards of around 15 textures that will be owned totally by DAZ which could be included in an add-on pack or in the Millennium Horse base pack depending on what our marketing department decides. I hope this helps to answer some of your questions. We hope that Millennium Horse will be a successful product and thanks to all of your feedback it's well on its way. Tony "Melmoth" Bradt Content Production Coordinator DAZ Productions

Philywebrider: Yes I will include a battle worn set as well:)

Well, you have a sale for both the Horse and the armor. :O)

Tony, is DAZ taking imput for some of its other upcoming figures, including the new mil man?

New mil man?

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PapaBlueMarlin, I'm not sure where you heard that we're making a new Mil Man, because we're not, technically. There is a new male figure option in the works, though. As for taking feedback on upcoming products... I think it will be best to wait until we have preliminary models and morphs, etc... before we take feedback on a given product. We have a few new figures planned that we hope will be fun products, but nothing ready to show off as of yet. When we have something that is worthy of being shown off we'll come calling. ;)

Hi all. We've incorporated a number of your changes. The details are in the daz forum: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=29623#29623 Thanks for your great input. We're looking for the same great guidance on our Mill Big Cat.

Good God, now you've got me excited. Like I said at DAZ, if you fix his knees also I'll buy him twice out of gratitude s

Hat's (stetson's) off to you DAZ for taking the criticism so constructively!! Poser users are a great resource _ and Anton's right its because they care deeply about the source that they're so vocal!

With V3-M3-Stephenie-Freak-Cat-Horse-Big Cat-Dog and all the other items coming, (all with INJ-REM listings) where am I suppose to put them all? I love the items, and the quality the DAZ stands for, but all those INJ/REM line items in the listing gobble up space like crazy. Isn't there some way for one item to take up one line???

You can consolidate those INJ/REM folders. :)

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

Caly-I can? How?

I am pretty sure the Cat, Dog etc don't have INJ folders but to condense them you simply drag the content from one into another and possibly rename it ...

Hey all, Ghostofmacbeth, you're absolutely right. The Mil Cat, Mil Dog and the new Mil Horse do not have any DAZ made injection poses (or directories). They are enabled to use INJ poses for new products, but they have all of their initial morphs loaded into the figure file. As for the INJ/REM directories in the Pose library... Feel free to arrange those poses as you like. Conceivably, they could be put anywhere as long as you don't touch the files in the "libraries:!DAZ" directory. Although I wouldn't recommend putting the INJ and REM poses in the same directory because they are named the same (by morph name).