Djeser, E-On did listen and promises to fix the OpenGL/handle problem that was causing the menu/interface corruption. That has been in every version of VuePro since the start that I'm aware of. I haven't experienced the slowdown, though it might be related to that as well, not sure. I haven't been able to sit down with VuePro long enough to get really into it deep enough where I might see it. Hopefully when the next patch is out, that will allow me to do so. shadowWind

I mojoworld, lightwave, deeppaint 3d, poser, photoshop, wcs 6.0 user and been thinking about getting vue because of the Dead City images in the gallery and notice this thread. For one thing, I don't think HT is problem unless Vue has troubles with multiple processor - logical or physical HT threading appears as 2 cpus.. In Mojoworld HT is a great benifit, because it gives you about 50% more computing power when rendering in 2 sessions. I think the main problem here is choice of Video card. ATI's are notorious for bad activity with OpenGL profession graphics. Lightwave has is good example. I have HP Pentium M notebook with ATI 9200 on it and if I leave Mojoworld alone on it - windows XP will lock up with ATI driver error. NVidia user to that about year ago but since been fix. This thread is a little concerning to me.. is this an isolated case or does a lot of people have issues like this.

I am using Nividia and the latest drivers and have had the above problems that were being discussed. You must have missed where it said e-on has acknowleaged that it as a problem that ShadowWind has found. It was not related to viedo cards. :o)

iloco, thanks for your response.. When it states turning off OpenGL - I assume this is done inside the application and also what does this means. Does Vue use Direct X when Open GL if off or does it just use GL graphics.

What is the impact of this problem, does it make Vue hard to used. If so when will E-on have a fix.

P.S. I am a programmer by profession and from ShadowWind's comment this problem sounds like a memory leak / resource leak in Vue. E-on should run something like Bounds checker on this operation. What I can see on the image of screen that that is not many graphics object being display, so something must be serious wrong in logic to cause over 10,000 gdi objects to be used. My guess even if windows allowed more, it would still have the problem - just take longer to cause the symptoms.

I be watching this thread, this type of issue must be resolved before I can consider the package.

As I stated above I am dumb when it comes to understanding how software and code works. I only know when its not working as it should. I am sure ShadowWind can explain what was found, and the more like you the better when it comes to finding the problems for people like me that don't know how. Thanks for taking interest in this thread. :o)

I am slightly confused now.. how serious is this problem, is Vue uauable with OpenGL off or not?

I have an ATI card (AIW 9700 Pro) and I have no problems with the OpenGL itself. Djeser has brought up a point at the forums of eon about non-OpenGL also slowing the system down and running out of GDI objects at 10,000. I don't know the specifics of that bug right now, but I would imagine it's a similar problem. On mine, OpenGL and the program works fine until that leak hits 10,000 GDI. At that point, windows starts to be corrupted and menus and interfaces disappear, followed by a full system meltdown. For some people who plan ahead and do very little movement in the program itself, this may never be seen, as evidenced by some of the beta testers who did not see this until it was brought up. However, if you are trying to do a complicated camera setup like dawn above, it can be as quick as 15 minutes to reach this threshold. I've had anywhere between 15-60 minutes personally. BTW, I have an ATI AIW 9700 Pro and it works like a champ until that threshold. Eon has confirmed that it is not a hardware or driver issue, but an actual issue in the software (a resource table leak), that they will address in their next revision. I don't know when that revision will be, but given the amount of people with the problem, I hope it will be soon. So the answer to your question is unfortunately yes and no. It depends mostly on your workflow until the bug is addressed.

To update you...this last Pro update has become a disaster. I have a lot less time to work on images these days (due to a new and very time-consuming job), and when I took a break yesterday afternoon to work on an idea, Pro crashed on me 3 times. I can count on one hand the amount of crashes I experienced from the time I installed it in early Oct to now...prior to installing the update. I am finding Pro almost unusable now, and since I have been using it almost exclusively (rather than Vue d'Esprit) since I installed it, I'm more than a bit disappointed. I have OpenGL disabled, background draw turned down, all the usual stuff. My image had about 2mill polys, and when I import a Poser figure (which I do all the time!) I get the "Vue Pro is generating an error" window. I can never find any error reports, however. Frustration level is exceedingly high now.

From the technical stuff and this thread it sounds like bug in Vue. Any idea when this next revision of Vue is coming out. Maybe it will be a 4.1 version or something like that.

They haven't said, though they are very fast about patches and revisions for things like this. So I wouldn't expect it will be too long. VuePro is 4.5x, which I guess they are on 4.52 since they mentioned 4.53 would be the next official release, though they usually put up beta releases in the meantime.

Djeser,
Hmmm, I can imagine your pain. I haven't had much time to play with the newst revision of VUePro, but I will be doing so tonight/tomorrow and can let you know if I see anything there. Is the error the same all the time in that same scene? or is it one of those random type things? You had mentioned the GDI was affected, how so? Can you import another poser figure or does that crash too? I did notice in the little I played with the new revision, that it seemed to be a might more sensitve about Poser objects than the other versions. I am not trying to cop out, but maybe in the short term, if you can go back to the previous version, might be good, but yeah, it would definitely be something that they need to fix. If it's giving an eon error than it's most likely on their side, as even eon said this.

ShadowWind

If I knew how to go back to the previous version, ShadowWind, I would surely do so!!! The slowdowns happen after about 5 minutes of working...whether adding objects, importing objects, or just working on textures. No exact moment or action sets it off. I tried monitoring the GDI like you all mentioned above, and the numbers just go higher and higher.

Djeser, those are the things I have been experiecing even with earlier upgrades. That is what is so confusing with these problems with Vue. I did get the eon errors but it is so hard to reproduce at the time and be able to give e-on a step by step answer when you pot at tech support and they ask you to duplicate it. I was able to get them to duplicate one error but not the one you and I are having. :)

Djeser,
I think the best thing to do in your case would be to write down when you see the GDI objects go up (what you do when they do) and send that to e-on via the thread. It's entirely possible that the bug is in more places than the ones we know about (mouse movement, mouse clicks in OpenGL) and that is causing your havoc. It might be something that was introduced in this latest version. Remember it said, "New Memory Management Strategy" Well that strategy may still have some ironing out to go.

As to the previous version, perhaps you should start a thread here on how to go back. If you don't have a backup from the previous version, maybe Guitta or one of the Vue experts can tell you how to safely reinstall it and then just upgrade to the last known version that worked for you. I have never tried reinstalling it, so I would not want to give specific advice that could possibly cause you more harm than good. Would be better to leave it to someone who had done it.

Iloco,
It may all be tied into the same type of bug. We'll have to see when they get it working whether that is the case or not. I have noticed that the latest version does seem more skittish than the previous ones.

Forgot to mention that the GDI Object handle was only at 297 so that may or may not had anything to do with the error and crash. :o)

Not sure what's causing that, but I found another bug. If I take a sea weed plant. If I copy it and then do a paste about 12 times (in OpenGL) it crashes with a VuePro.eon error requester. This one is duplicatable.

I couldn't get it to crash at 2 mil polys in OpenGL or even slow down, so I'm not sure what is causing that. When I tried to open a terrain that was 2048x2048, it got very slow, but that was at 8 million polys. Turning off the background draw and other option under OpenGL seemed to speed things up a bit. Do you and Djeser share the same video card? Not saying it's the video card, but perhaps it's some setting that you two have shared that is causing the slowdowns. The crash is probably more likely something in Eon's code. You are right Iloco, it's not the same resource leak issue if it's not getting up to the magic number.

ShadowWind

I think there are still more than one bugs that are causing some problems. At lest by getting rid of them one at a time that is progress. My Video card is an older one but has been working ok with OpenGL. It is a Nividia GeForce2 MX 100/200, 64 mb's memory with latest drivers from Nividia.

I bought mine last Sept, it's NVidia GEForce FX something, works fine, but OpenGL is slow for me so I turn it off and just use wireframe. I started in Bryce, so I'm used to wireframe, doesn't bother me.

Please send all details to technical support through our online system. A couple of items to consider (what do I know, Im only a sales guy ;-)) -- -iloco, Ive heard that the nvidia GeForce2 MX was very problematic some time ago. It shipped with very flakey drivers, and, while I think Nvidia polished them somewhat Im not very confident with that card. -Is that spruce tree one of ours? You have 39 objects listed there on the screen and its a grouped item. -If a "crash screen" came up after that VC++ error message, you should include its contents in your support request. -What are those two items in your system tray? Sometimes in-resident utilities and, occassionally a bum driver that came with hardware can cause problems which seem unrelated. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks e-on software

Ok I am really confused now. What was the use for the forum at e-on if we are still required to send each issue to tech support. Seems to me it would be useless when we have this one ar RR and other forum if we just want to discuss among ourselves. That tree was one I was playing with that was gave to me. It is not a Vue tree. Those two items in my task bar are the only two things I run on startup and they are my AVg virus scan and My ZoneAlarm firewall. Those have never given any problems with any of my other 3D applications I use on my computer. Bryce, Poser 5 to name a couple. I had a new ATI Viedo card and it gave me more problems than the Nivida I am using now. If Djester had been using the same as I and we were both having the problem then I could see maybe it being a Nividia issue. Since she wasn't and is using a later card I can not see it being a card issue. I did not get a crash screen after the eon error. I had to close out of Vue and restart it to get back into it. Sometimes I have to a complete reboot of my computer when Vue crash's. Not on the above error.

The forum is for collective answers, but sending a message through the additional support button may prioritize a response. There is a risk that you've jumped to unsafe conclusions about your crashing problem. If you want to try to sort it all out here, go right ahead, but it may be faster to get help from support. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks e-on software

Lynn I may be wrong but I think the sorting out is ok here but the fixing is up to e-on. I think there are some programmers that are not employed by e-on that do understand a lot of what is happening when we discuss these problems and they have an idea of what is happening and are just sugessting what it may take to fix the problem. If you are saying the vue forum will not be a high priorty for tech to read the post and problems then I don't see the forum as being used for any useful purpose since Renderosity and most all the 3D graphic sites have a discussion forum about the problems some people are having with Vue Pro. I would like to see an answer to the confusion that is being created now answered so we do know what and how to get our problems solved. No one in the Vue Forum had gave a reply back to any of the post in the last couple of days. Will it always be that slow for a responce. I guess I have been put on the ignore list but I think its e-ons priorty to not keep customers in the dark with their problems. :o)

I think an important thing for E-on software to realize that is that a person like myself who is potential user of Vue in the future, may have second thoughts about because of error like this.

As a person in development as profession, issue like this are always on top priority.

As for myself (under another alias, of course!), all my exchanges with the e-on team has just purely dissapeared from the support on the official e-on/Vue site. Funny, isn't it? (No, you won't get more info!) TJ - saddened

Lynn,
Some of these are bugs that have been in it from the offset, bugs missed by your alpha and beta testing teams, since the first release. Do you not think that they have been mentioned to tech support directly? Did they get resolved? No, which means that we should either eat $300-400 or find a solution ourselves. We decided to do the latter and through that collaboration, found a scenario that was too exact to ignore in the one case. SO after 6 months, we finally got some degree of comfort that at least that might be fixed, which will help a lot of us.

I am unclear on "unsafe conclusions?" To what does this refer exactly? The only conclusion we've come to so far in these discussions as that we'd better be able to find a duplicating scenario or we will be set aside, and if we keep up, labeled as trouble makers. If someone at e-on would like to address these problems and work through the bugs in a productive manner, we wouldn't have these conversations, but none of us like to get humored and then told to go away until you can find solid evidence.

ShadowWind

iloco and ShadowWind, its probably helpful to share experiences to see if you are both experiencing the same problems since that does help to narrow down the possibility of what might be causing a particular issue. However, it can also generate a false positive if you've overlooked something that may or may not be present on your systems. It could be something that can appear very minor, or, may not even be recognized by a particular vendor as a problem (for example, with system components that Vue Pro makes use of). The development team has put out a few updates since we shipped Vue 4 Pro, so issues are being addressed. But problems cannot be fixed if the development team cannot duplicate them -- which is why Ive been saying to provide them with as much information as possible. If they cannot duplicate it then, and noone bothers to follow up, they move on to another issue they can duplicate and fix. If I thought you were troublemakers, I would have just ignored your posts. Dont read into my posts anything more than I write in a literal sense. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks e-on software

Lynn its awful hard to be able to stand on both sides of the fence at the same time. I understand what you are saying. I also hope you see what we are trying to say also. What I ment is if tech was to read our post and discussions on an issue is that some people can express themselves better than others and tech might pick up something someone is trying to explain but not in the words tech understands that I may have tryed to say. A good example is Djester was able to explain her problem better than I but it is the same we both are experiencing. ShadowWind has proved his ability to communicate with you in words that I would probly sound offensive had it been me trying to say the exact same thing. So I guess what I am trying to say is I hope tech is listening to all of us and not just the title to a post. I gave up trying to post problems to tech because I am not good at explaing myself as some other people can do. I just sit back and hope someone with same problem post it and tech understands and is able to fix and then I can get the update. It is confusing to try to work with tech when all you get done is answer a question can you duplicate this for us and give us step by step instructions when the next time it is not the same. This can be a nite mare for some users and I fully understand their feelings. Some are intmadated just posting a problem and sit back and hope as I it gets fixed. That is why I am trying my best to not back down untill Vue Pro is the program it was advertised to be. :o) Thanks for not seeing us as trouble makers. We just want a program we can work with and it not give us all the crash's and errors. I can see how Dawn started this thread I hate Vue. It is no fun when you half way through a scene and Vue Pro crash's.

Good news guys and gals. I heard from sbell today on e-on's forum and he says that 4.53 will include the GDI fix and a few other fixes. Let's keep our fingers crossed! ShadowWind

There ya go!:-) Lynn