I made this scene from scratch in 3D Max 3.1, whith no post editing. Right now i'v started new scene for the challenge, where i want to modell a new cyborg, and maybe human. I'll post first results in 1-2 days or so...

I'm game for this challenge. I know what you mean when you say you are tired of seeing edited models and not many originally modeled models. A friend of mine got flamed really bad here, well in the complaint room when he was complaining about people using poser models and not modeling their own objects. I kept my mouth shut. I am a lightwave user. I just upgraded to version 6.0 so I will take you up on this challenge. I doubt that many others will however. I have never seen any extremely high polygoned & complexed models come out of the Carrara/Raydream crowd. I have seen good work but never anything that I would consider elite and never have I seen a complete scene with organics set in an evironment that was completely modeled by the artist. I know that I am going to get flamed for that last statement but that is okay. So bring on your challenge and let us dazzle! One thing about this pic, the lights on the wall are lighting but are not luminating enough to acount for the light that they are putting off. And the shadows are misleading based on lighting position. Just an observation

Yeh, i agree with your poin of view. But to mention - Carrara/Raydream and the same are not "proffesional" software packages, so expecting great results of there exploiting is not right. But a lot of Maya, 3DMax, Lightwave, SI and so on users in fact are Poser dependent, that what is very sad. About lights on the wall - yep, you are right, i made too much glow on them and positioned omni sources a lit'bit incorrectly... And about shadows - in most parts of the image they are correct, cause there are no "invisible" light sources in the room, only one behined the camera (aka another explosion). There are about 16 lights in scene with different strength and attenuation options (upper lights are hardly seen from this camera). The main difficulty is that floor lights have wide profile and can't be rendered correctly with build in 3DMax shaders (i'm looking for plugin, that can render "object based" lights, rather than "point" lights). I wanted to render this scene with Pixar's Renderman 3.9 engine, but don't have MaxMan software, to export rib format from 3DMax :( (only own SoftMan and MTOR, but i'm not as good with SoftImage and Maya) Best Regards! Looking forward for you work!

Well I am mostly an artist and not a 3-D modeller ... Personnaly I don't care how the image happens as long as it is good. I mean if I tried modelling soemthing in Ray Dream it woul suck and then it would be a bad image. However I can make a pretty mean character out of a poser figure and make a good image ... It is just a matter or what you like. I make sure that the poser dude normally looks nothing like the original and I do my own mesh work within Ray Dream but I also don't have and don't want MAX and stuff ... Anyway. Noce picture but Iwon't be in your challenge. Don't have the stuff to do it

Oh my god, this is the old argument that I run into all of the time. Ghost, no one is trying to insult you or your kind, however, how you get there is as in important as what you get when you get there. Art is life. I want a million dollars!, But if I stole it to get there, then I am nothing more than a theif. If I toiled and worked to get on my own ideas from the ground up! Then I truely earned what I got. 3D art is just the next step in Sculpturing with stone. Our raw material are primatives, lines and vertices just as a sculpturist's tools are rock and stone. You said you were not a modeller. That is fine. I love poser artist because you take the meshes that we create to newer levels that we never thought about using them for. It is a symbiotic relationship. You are not any less a 3D artist. You are a Poser/Animator who works with the meshes that the modeller creates. Our argument one of getting the jist of what 3D art is. Modelling is very rewarding and I one would like you to experience creating a great mesh from the ground up, then animating or posing it. It is a very exilerating experience and it gives you a deeper understanding to what modellers and animators are and where their mindset is. Also, if you create your own mesh, then you don't have to worry about royaly rights or credit to someone else which is not a bad thing, but just something that some of us would like to do without. Editing a model that already exist is your thing so fine, you continue to that. 1000faces and myself will continue to dazzle with our complete scenes built from the ground up.

Well as an illustrator the process is not as important. hough I do see some analogy with the million dollars it is not a totally similar one.When I do a piece I claim the piece. Not the meshwork or the other things. It is much like using a reference for a painting. One day perhaps I will be able to do meshwork but the thing is that I don't have the money to buy thousand dollar programs. I don't have the patience to try to figure out something that is driven from an almost purely analytical process. I am an artist. Primarily in the realm of oil paintings and such. Heck, for the most part what I use Poser for is what it was originally intended. As a studio model. It makes it much easier than trying to get a reference for a pose that I have to jump up and down in the mirror for S So when it comes to joint parameters and the formula's for CR2 and such it is beyond me. I can scuplt pretty well in traditional media but I just don't have the tools to do it in 3D. Unless you want a Bryce made Boolean robot S Later

Ok guys. this is the Challenge Forum...Complaint/Debate is down the hall. :) GeorgeD

Yeah yeah yeah George Laughs Well I challenge you to ... Nevermind Laughs That was just a discussion S I don't go to complaint except once every 6 months or so