We made a good run of it and tried to keep it running, but sadly a few members have turned it into a flaming zone. This site is about ART!, It was never intended as a place for people to attack each other. We might someday reopen it, but only time will tell. This is not up for debate. We hope you all understand why we had to close it down. Thanks Spike

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

I saw this coming a long time ago...I understand why it happened..and am sad to see it go.. :(

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

So are we.... It was our hope that we could have kept it open. Sadly, we were fighting a loosing battle....

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

Sorry, as one person who has never personally attacked anyone, nor ever received any kind of warning ever, I am annoyed that by enjoying my Mother's Day I missed the answer to my question. It seems to me that many of the so called attacks were not intended against a particular member at all, but were perceived attacts because someone felt they belonged to a group who's ideas where being attacked. My question was, Is it considered a personal attack if someone writes ___________(fill the blank with Christians, republicans, dems, liberals, atheists, war mongers, or any other group that fits the thread) behavior is idiotic in the current situation because.... Now, is that a personal attack on a member or is it a perceived attack because someone relates themselves with that group? To discuss or blame a group for a behavior and add documentation to back you up is what debate in a forum is about as far back as forums have existed. The OT forum is a place where people went to vent sometimes and you get all opinions on the spectrum. Losing an arguement cannot all of a sudden be called foul. Now, I haven't read every thread and I am sure there have been cases of trolling and personal attacks. But in the threads that had the mod threats in them, it seemed that the nature of the debate was really the issue. If anyone says the christians might be wrong, some one is offended and it is now a TOS case. If my opinion is wrong, please state clearly how far the translation of personal attack goes. To be fair to the many people at OT who never personally attacked a member, I just think if you are going to annouce that you have shut down a forum you should give some of the details, not leave the rest of the community to believe that a bunch of animals couldn't control themselves. I am now offended!

So where so the OT posts go? Are they just going to stay in the forum that they were posted in?

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

Granted I don't think I ever posted at OT, but it made an interesting read sometimes... Hmm. If Renderosity's principal focus (or topic) is ART and it opens and /off-topic/ forum, what was it expecting to have discussed there? I guess we could've discussed it in the Virtual Tavern, if that hadn't also been knocked down to make more space for the marketplace :) So: think nice thoughts, chuck stacks of cash at the store and shut up. This is not up for debate. Gotta get the number of your PR firm. :)

That was one place where artists could get together and socialize. Pretty heavy handed actions. I think it is time for myself to be just as heavy handed with my credit card and take it elsewhere.
See Ya!

Im pretty sure the OT posts were meant to go away and stay with the OT forum...wouldn't make sense to close the forum and toss the posts back out into another forum..

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson. I have never attacked anyone on the OT forum. I have never received a warning of any kind. I have, however, expressed opinions. Free, rational men and women sometimes do. I have, in the past been attacked, trolled and even threatened by email by a member who, for some reason doesn't like francophones. I let it pass. I never once complained about anybody's posts. I dealt with it all myself and considered it all 'small stuff". The first time I complained was today, when an ill-advised moderator tried to divide the posters into "good guys" and "troublemakers" based on the members' responses to what seemed to me (I have been away for a few months) a strange admonitory post. This practice was so revoltingly despicable, that I felt someone needed to say something. Throughout the years I have read the forum posts, gained insight into subjects I never would have touched upon. I had some fun with people who have become good friends. I have learned from detractors as well as from people with whom I had affinities. I will miss the old forum, but not the one it had turned into, not the one that would espouse the irrational philosophy I saw implemented today. No. That forum is too late gone and I shall not mourn for it. To all those who populated the OT and that I may never chance upon in other forums, I would like to convey my respects and affection. Farewell. Q

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

None of the recent threads I read earlier today had any attacks, certainly nothing worthy of shutting down the forum. In fact, the only things on that level happened several days ago, when a couple of threads were locked. Things had actually smoothed out since then. Seems pretty arbitrary to me. So now artists here are not allowed to have opinions on anything except art? The last time, when they shut down the old C&D forum, all the off-topic conversations, and arguments and even anger - just ended up free-floating in all the other forums. It will probably happen again.

BTW, I too would really like to see the answers to barbarellany's questions.

another step in the conversion from a community to a shopping mal. luckily, not all poser communities are so commercial-orientated. guys, see you somewhere else. i just want to thank people who have different opinions than mine, for the endurance they had with me. cy

Just to clerify my question..... From now on where would an OT post go, would it stay in the forum that it was posted in or is it going to get moved to another forum? I hope that makes it clearer.

♠Ω Poser eZine Ω♠
♠Ω Poser Free Stuff Ω♠
♠Ω My Homepage Ω♠

www.3rddimensiongraphics.net

 

I don't know why but the story about the "personal attacks" is so similar to the WMDs fable, why????? Bad news for Renderosity and bad news for me as a merchant, because more and more customers will no buy any more here!, the costumers and the artists are very sensible to the CENSURE!

Stupidity also evolves!

Seeing as this was the only place where I could have great discussions on current events, politics, sex, whatever, (with other artists in particular) I feel a bit heart-broken. Growing up in America those subjects were always taboo. Can't talk about any of that stuff in our schools, in the workplace, at the dinnertable, etc. It's not normal to be so fearful of controversy and differing opinions. Anyway, it's not my site, nor my decision...but I am rather sad about it. Farewell to my OT friends...both on the left and the right. You taught me more than you'll ever know, and I'll miss you. wink Love yas!

From now on where would an OT post go, would it stay in the forum that it was posted in or is it going to get moved to another forum?<<

hey I can answer that :P

OT posts are not allowed! Anywhere! They will be deleted on the spot.

Bad news for Renderosity and bad news for me as a merchant, because more and more customers will no buy any more here!, the costumers and the artists are very sensible to the CENSURE!<<

eh..they dont care. 99.9 percent of the customers aren't even aware that there is/was an OT forum. They just shut it down because too many people were whining (in IMs and email) about being attacked in there. There are lotsa other places to go for OT discussions ya know.

As one who occasionally posted, restrained myself from personal attacks and found the forum both interesting and entertaining, I find this decision ridiculous.

I think the PTB need to be fired en-masse & replaced with people who can actually think for themselves instead of buying into the lost sheep mentality that seems to be creeping into the mindset of those in charge around here. Your TOS is ambiguous at best, or complete crap if you want to see it as it really is. The christian "everything has to be christian or else" bullshit has no place in 21st century society & that includes sites like this. If you really want this to be a site that only christians are welcome to then don't pussyfoot about it banning certain people who don't agree with your collective theological view run a poll & ban everyone who isn't christian. If that's not the case then why the hell are you allowing your religious beliefs to get in the way of you doing your jobs properly?

ps Spike you didn't HAVE to close it down, that was just a cowards way out of the bad situation you admins created & couldn't handle.

"There are lotsa other places to go for OT discussions ya know" They tend to be a lot nastier than the OT forum ever was.

So, because a few people may have gotten pissed (American usage, not British usage) about religious and/or political threads, no more threads on movies, silly news articles, jokes, constructive discussions (eg. the "morning after" thread,) pets, births, etc etc etc etc. I'll bet shuting down that forum pissed off more people than all the troll posts combined. "that was just a cowards way out of the bad situation you admins created & couldn't handle." There's something I suspect all members could agree on.

I also would like an answer to Barbarellany's question.

I see...

What do you do with new Off Topic posts?
Do you move them to PoserPros?

.....what's that you say?....." had to destroy the village to save it " !?......

Well it's been fun. It's a real shame, I've met, debated with and developed real affection for a lot of people from all walks of life and all kinds of places. The idea of artists not having heated debates seems weird. 'This is not up for debate. We hope you all understand why we had to close it down. Thanks Spike' No, Spike, I personally don't understand. I do understand censorship though. No warnings, no requests to tone it down or lose it just 'this is not open to debate' Nice. To all my friends I'll see you in some other forum no doubt, take care and, in the spirit of bad jokes, Sci-fi references and all that did make Renderosity a fun place.....Live long and Render ;)

And there as those that are so blinded, they still deny that censorship exists in America.

I'm hoping the backlash of this act of idiocy will be to hurt Renderosity financially. I doubt it will, but I'm hoping. Speaking strictly for myself, I intend to show my displeasure by not spending another penny with Renderosity. I also intend to spend a lot more time at PoserPros (their Chicken Coop OT Forum can be interesting) and 3D Commune, and to slowly withdraw any and all affiliation with this site.

To all of my regular OT comrades; I have developed a genuine affection for each and every one of you; even the ones I consistantly disagree with and poke verbal sticks at. Mon1alpha, Allen9, Teri, BDC, bonestructure, jchimim, jumpstartme2, Bobasaur, c1rcle, Alleycat169, Hauksdottir, geoegress, Rockatansky, kawecki, aleks, quixote, the long lost Scarab, ChickenHawk in his many ridiculous guises, and anyone I forgot; I salute you. My morning coffee just won't be the same without you. See ya'

"Another step in the conversion from a community to a shopping mall" I think this is the closest we will get to the truth behind this decision. Renderosity is obviously not run as an art community, it's run as a shopping mall where people happen to gather and interact. This makes it different from other 3D art sites. The other sites are built around a community. They interact with the community and they embrace it. They understand that a community sometimes is about discussion, argumentation, exchange of ideas and opinions. They can also handle these aspects of a community. Not Renderosity. Renderosity only wants a shopping mall where people follow the rules to the last letter and behave. No discussions, no opinions. An artists community is like any other community. It lives from the opinions and contributions from the members. To believe that arists only have opinions about artistic matters is ridiculous and naive. Spike, you have to make a decision here. Do you want a community or a shopping mall?

One last thing:

"So are we.... It was our hope that we could have kept it open. Sadly, we were fighting a loosing battle"

is a load of complete horseshit.

The disappearance of both OT and the Tavern suggests a desire to cut bandwidth rather than any high-minded concern about offensiveness. There was never any nastiness in the Tavern. m :(

I'm just sitting here shaking my head.....wondering wth?? No doubt it is Renderosity's choice to have or not have whatever forums they choose......just as its members can post, sell, buy their art here or someplace else. This is a total bummer for some of us that posted daily in the OT forum....but look this is the net, we can post OT anywhere...why not just take the OT forum to a Yahoo site where we can still talk our bs with the people we know and love? It's easy to set up a forum, anyone interested? Could have it open to all, and no topic would be off limits...

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewLink=319

The site owners have the right to censor what goes on here, just as we have the right to censor what goes on on our own property. However, if *"The mission of Renderosity is to create a thriving, productive environment that encourages an atmosphere of **community, respect,** collaboration, and growth for graphic artists of all backgrounds"* then discouraging discussions about life and the world in general is counterproductive. Art is about life, and life is messy. Destroying a resource that many enjoy just because they can't handle the actions of a few says volumes about this site's management.

As a daily visitor to the OT forum (sometimes posting, but mostly reading), I think this is a bad move - you've pissed off a lot of people by doing this when it was only a few who were at fault. I suggested a while back that there should have been a separate 'politics (and possibly religion)' forum - that suggestion was ignored. Now we all have to suffer heavy handed tactics akin to a teacher making the whole class stay behind because one kid has been disruptive. Shame on you!

You could always hide in the Strata 3D forum ;)

Attached Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rosityofftopichideout/

"why not just take the OT forum to a Yahoo site where we can still talk our bs with the people we know and love?" Said and done. I just opened a Yahoo Group with the following name: RosityOffTopicHideOut Please join and continue our discussions there. Anyone can join, all members can post. No moderation, nothing off topic. I'll be away for a few days on a business trip, but I hope to see some nice debates going on when I get back!

Lets try this again I have only posted in the OT a few time; and got in trouble twice. Not for attacking an individual, but for expressing an unpopular opinion, and deffending myself. It does seem that the admin's defenition of "personal attacks" means attacks they take personaly. Yes things got heated in the OT, but it was exactly what I would have expected in any forum the descused poliics or religion. I have only been here a few weeks, but rosity has taken a rather desturbing turn tword, and is rapidly heading for ultraconservatisiuom. And daily I see posts by members going elswere to escape from it. I't may be time for the admin to get together and descuss this deturbing trend before many more members go elsware; and take their products with them. Yes, I would like to see the OT reopened, possabley with new moderators; a job I wouldn't wish on anyone, just for the OT. It may also be a good thing for rosity to put out a questionar to find out just what the general consenses of their membership is.

I wont miss it. it had basicly degenerated into a wasteland of "Bush/America is evil" posts. and even when you tried to start a light hearted thread about Dating or boxers VS. briefs you would get two or three responses and the thread would quickly die unless it was hijacked by those angry few who were determined to have no discussions that did not involve the "evils" of Bush/America/conservatives. The moderators tried to keep it civil but level if anger expressed by some just made it impossible.

My website

YouTube Channel

thanks :) Of course I'll miss the blue and white colors scheme here.....but I'm sure at least one of us is artsy enough to dress up a Yahoo site.... Better join the Yahoo site fast I have a feeling this thread is about to be deleted :(

Art IS nothing more then communication! The heavy handed tactics of the Admin is a pure unadulterated chicken shit response by Spike. How's that for a personal attack!!!! You gutless coward. Every sence he's taken over he has been step by step disassembeling of this sites CORE community. That does it- I'm not buying here or posting any more products. I'll be posting at Rendervisions.com They also have a OT forum. To all my friends I've made in the OT I'll miss you. And yes, like others have said, even when we disagreed, I allways considered them my FRIENDS. I have tons more respect for a strongly held but truthfull opinion then for a spinless coward who crys like a baby "can't we all get just get along"-------pussys Like the opening line in this post says, Art is communication, and the kind of discussions we had really helped alot to spur creativity. This site just lost the LAST good reason to come here- it is now nothing but a huge "yawn fest".

come'on now geoegress tell us how you really feel :) I completely agree with you tho, some of the people in the ot that I disagreed most with is the ones I looked forward to reading each day......I don't think we HAVE to miss anything tho, head over to the site that Kelderek set up at yahoo.

I am Teri :) see you there :)

So a few thin-skinned, immature little weasels got their panties in a twist because they can not tolerate others opinions. (BTW...could someone please point out the "personal" attacks.) Maybe Renderosity should shut it doors and start charging membership fee's since it seems to have the same attitude that pervades a W.A.S.P. country club.
OOOOooooooOOOO! "Personal" attacks! Maybe there should be a crybaby forum for when some get their realities upset.

I am pretty displeased with this news. Now that the OT forum is gone there is really no reason for me to come here anymore...besides occasionally checking out the Cinema 4d forum , but thats it ,but for any of you who want an OT type forums that discuss the same topics head out to the large Dr Who forum ....They have a few forums that are non Dr Who related which are.... ---arc of infinity the media forum--- TV series films music radio science fiction literature media beyond doctor who ---the tenth planet debate and discussion--- politics religion real world issues our serious discussion and debate section on many topics ---paradise towers fun and frolic--- the whimsical & light-hearted side of the forum general discussion on many topics ---the leisure hive private section--- lively and popular section for mature users only The adress to access these forums are... http://www.gallifreyone.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23

I don't get it. The OT forum has been pretty calm lately. If people were complaining about being attacked because of what was posted there over this weekend, then they need to get out more.

I resent that...I'm immature and you're oppressing me!...What?

where's that site Teri? I'm planning to join Jettboy & others in boycotting Rosity :)

like the post 3 OT topics in the poser forum and be banned? you set it.. now, with nowhere to post OT, how do you expect to enforce that? your public is waiting.....

Maybe everyone should just post whatever they like wherever they like, they can't ban everyone & keep the site running can they?

geez, how long does it take for yahoo to send a conformation E-mail? this is why I hate dealing with yahoos.

If it's not open for debate everything posted here is mute. Hmm, no thought as to what the members want?

manley- mine took a couple of minutes :)

What we want doesn't count & never has, surely you didn't think we mattered in the slightest?

20, still waiting

any chance of letting me know which group it is you're joining?

see 35 circle

thanks stanley :) I musta missed that one :)

... hey! this is nearly as much fun as the OT Forum! can we stay here and play?... Manley! my yahoo emails came through in moments, have another go just in case there was some blip in the works. Cheers!

tryed, told me my name and pass were taken, don't know hwy it's taking so long.

I'm dissappointed but I see both sides. I knew we were in trouble when, once upon a time, someone describe me as a "voice of reason." [grin] As Quixote used to say, "Peace."

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

"told me my name and pass were taken" did that to me as well.. till I understood it don't like spaces and other stuff. My first time joining one of those things, I had to have a ciggy afterwards.

"My first time joining one of those things, I had to have a ciggy afterwards." Was it like having sex? [really big friendly grin]

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

If you guys want a forum with a similar TOS as here- you know, no personal attacks, but that allows non-Art posts you can actually play in the Daz forums. If you don't mind forums with a different TOS, where flames etc are acceptable, then you can try 3darena's RFI forum, or Poserpros.

Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com

Renderosity Gallery

Does the yahoo group have a message board? Or is it like one of those email thingies?

it has both Indigo, you can have email delivered to your inbox, or read and post at the yahoo site.....kinda just like we do here.

It's a little strange that most of the regular OT'ers have no clue as to what the final straw was......I think if the staff is brave enough to shut it down, perhaps they should just spell it out in black and white what the real reason was?

Smiley Happy Sheep is what they want & the OT Crowd just don't fit in with their utopian ideals.

"It's a little strange that most of the regular OT'ers have no clue as to what the final straw was." I suspect there's something "behind the scenes" we may never know about. The OT forum took hardly any resources, especially compared to the galleries. This site makes money from (among other things) banner adds, so the more folks "click around" the more money they make. The more interesting forums and threads they have, the more banner adds people see, the more money 'rosity makes. That doesn't even figure in the loss of sales that occur when members get pissed.

"It's a little strange that most of the regular OT'ers have no clue as to what the final straw was" LOL I know! I keep trying to think of my last posts and what I said....wondering if I did something wrong. I don't get it. This feels more offensive than any personal attacks. Come to think of it, I don't really think I ever was personally attacked. If I was, I got over it like a grown-up LOL. Hmmmm...maybe Janet Jackson flashed a boob or something at half time and now we're all being punished. :)

"maybe Janet Jackson flashed a boob or something at half time and now we're all being punished." One of the threads devolved into a conversation about the pres. candidates competeting as beauty contestants. It might have been the thought of Nader in a speedo...

"Was it like having sex?" Yep! but lasted longer and was full of the fraught tensions of my youth, I may join another for a repeat performance....cos it certainly was a performance!...

I had joined Caly's 30-day boycott of the MP earlier this year, and had just gone off it this weekend. Looks like I'm back on it again. I'm just too annoyed with Rosity at the moment to give them any money.

I'd really like to know what brought this on. They posted that warning, and everyone seemed to be behaving well, then all of sudden, bam! The forum's removed anyway. WTF?

I just want to know why...

We just want to know why......is that too much to ask? I know you mods are carefully watching this thread all day long...so jump in here and tell us why the OT and the Tav were closed? Please? You don't have to mention names, just quote a thread or two? And while we're asking questions..where is Scarab? He disappeared without a trace or reason too.

they won't we'll get the 'wall of silence' that commonly comes after things like this happen. just another day in paradise...

This site is about ART! :: looks over galleries :: Really?

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

So if this is the community center, then it must be like a town hall or V.F.W. on a Friday night. Good thinking! Great way to cut down on "bandwith". grin
But actually, if the mods/admins gave a hoot about the members they would have answered by now.
This is not up for debate.
Okeee-Dokee!

Since there is no "official" answer to my question about what really constitutes as a personal attack here, and I doubt it was answered in OT before it was shut down, you leave me to believe I am correct to assume that if a negative comment is made about any group, no matter if it is backed up by fact and reference, anyone can claim through transitivity the comment as a personal attack. If that's the case then the forum part of OT died before the rest of us realised it. Maybe you should look up the word forum and google into the history of what forums are and you will see OT was not so out of hand as you want the rest of the community to believe. I do find it odd that some seem to have so little faith in their own beliefs that a few naysayers could so easily knock they off kilter and running for protection. As I said before, if someone wants to be persecuted they will find a way to be persecuted even if it's only in their own mind.

Really. That's all. The only time I'd ever go there was when I thread I was following was moved. I didn't see the flame war (but it must of been a good one). And, since the 'sity isn't really a community, they can do what they want. We forget that. It's a business. They have forums and galleries to get us to come here to buy the products they broker. "see the pretty forums... see all the messages... look at the pretty pictures other people have made... now see the banners and look at our marketplace, and maybe you can make pretty pictures too". It's not about art. It's about profit. That's not bad, it's just the way it is. Maybe some nice rich person could start a community site. Until someone does, we have to make use of these commercial sites and live with their rules and rulings. Of course, the community feel we'd all gotten used to is what really kept us here and buying. Side note to the mods: Can you guys at least try to be a little more friendly in a post like this? No offense, but the original post sounded like a father talking to his two year old after the poor kid was caught drawing on the walls.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=1777614

I've tried to provide a framework to evaluate and address potential "Personal Attack" statements. FWIW. Just in case: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=1777614

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

omg....add another one to the list of things almost everyone agrees on....let's see we have PETA, Diebolt, legal weed, and now this.

*I didn't see the flame war (but it must of been a good one).

Considering the mods had a habit of deleting inflammatory posts/threads, we only have the say-so of Spike as to any "personal attacks".

OK, this is Renderosity's right to close this forum. I have seen my country stepped on and bashed for months, and not a single warning was issued. Now a couple of threads have discussed the topic of religion in a very strong way, and the whole OT forum is tumbling down. Is there a collectivity that deserves more respect than others ? If it is indeed because of anti-Bush postings, Clinton and liberals have been called names quite often here. I must confess that, for a foreigner, it was interesting to see Clinton blamed for everything wrong ever, down to the seven plagues of Egypt. This is just plain Bushit. Anyway, in our modern occidental world, the good citizen is not supposed to think or argue. He must be calm, observe orders at all times, and spend money in marketplaces. Great yawning life...

Where is Buffy when you need her? .... oh! ...I forgot...

"We hope you all understand why we had to close it down." No, I don't understand. As far as I can see this was one of the most boneheaded moves this site has ever made. My health keeps getting worse and worse. I don't expect to live much longer without something changing radically. The OT forum was one of the very few joys in my miserable life, where I could express myself, be a little funny, connect with my extended family of friends and even ask for help. Taking this small joy away rips a huge hole in my heart. I'm extremely angry, and no matter what you say, there was NO justification for this. It's just plain WRONG. A few people acted badly, so in your judgement, EVERYONE has to suffer bewcause you're not competent to do your job and monitor things. What, did an advertiser object because many of us don't like Bush? Or because we're not all politically correct? This is just flat WRONG, and it's the single worst thing this site's admins have ever done. In a very very hard time for me, this takes away a little more of my will to live. OT was one of the few joys of my life, and an important part of my day. I'm one of the oldest members of this 'community' having been around for years. This, to me, is unconscionable censorship, plain and simple, and will be the wedge that will destroy this site as a community.

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

I have a suspicion this was all about the religion crap that happened over a week or so ago. Some people were baited by heated proclamations...the rest of us who knew better shook our heads and moved on. Mods got involved in the personal attacks and had to prove their gonads were bigger and crush the whole lot just to have the last word. Trust me...I've moderated at really large sites before, I know the mentality that tends to surface when power struggles get emotional.

I remember the days when Renderosity was the centre of the community, but those days are long gone & rosity is getting more sidelined every day as newer (better) 3d art forum sites open their doors to us.

Before this post is locked or deleted: Stupid and ignorant religious fanatics that try to call themselves as "Christians" cannot tolerate FREEDOM, you must be a stupid and ignorant sheep following your stupid and ignorant Pastor, nothing more! Goodbye my friends, including ChickenHawk (that had more neurones that these ignorants), I'll see you in another place that FREEDOM still exist and there any many places.....

Stupidity also evolves!

I didn't see the flame war (but it must of been a good one).

There was no flame war. That's the weird thing. Far worse stuff has been posted to the Poser forum - and allowed to rage for days before the thread was locked - than I've ever seen in the OT forum.

That's why we're all so baffled. This is really out of the blue.

I kind of enjoyed the political debates and anti-war rants. But, oh, well, this isn't open to debate. I wonder if these kinds of posts will find their way to the "All Purpose Forum", um, I mean the "Poser Forum". And why wasn't this announced on the Front Page? I would think that the removal of an entire forum would be big news for the community... something everyone should know about.

OK, this is Renderosity's right to close this forum.
Weeell, yes and no. Though it is Renderosities site, they should not advertise it as a "community". (Truth in advertising dontcha know!) What was done, was not in the "community" sense in any way.

just got here and all i can say is WTF??

Community. Not any more. They may not realize it, but the OT forum was the true heart of rosity and always has been. They've just ripped the heart out of it.

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

Apparently whether M3's testicles can move independantly of his penis is more the kind of thinking that represents what this site is about in some minds. Stick to the products.

"Apparently whether M3's testicles can move independantly of his penis is more the kind of thinking that represents what this site is about in some minds." But an erection, or moisture around Vicky's genitals are off limits... We should have seen this coming folks.... Without OT, the most exciting you'll see is how many folks can jump on a warez request before it gets locked.

Well, but is nudity really ART ? And is Poser really ART ? And is using the PreTeen favouring child porn ? And is Poser5 buggy and DazStudio wonderful ?

bah, in my 4-5 years at 'rosity i've seen much worse flame wars in poser forum then in old C&D or OT. but they can't close poser forum, can they? so it is a plain old "we have our principles, but as long we can earn some bucks, we might not live by them." hypocrisy? you bet! rosity will become a sell market, a mall or something equally soulles. it will be full of hobbyist making gazillions of "naked vickies in more or less low-resolution backgrounds, who will be shoulder-clapping each other and bying another light-set, being unable to make one. so what? one site takes a declining road, the others will emerge or already are. c'est la vie. after more then a thousand mornings accompanied by 'rosity's forums, this is my last posting here. see you at chickensoup @ poserpros! p.s. and if not, be well, it was fun! :)

"This site is about ART!, It was never intended as a place for people to attack each other." But, quite obviously, with no respect at all for the ARTISTS.

Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.

Good decision.

...I thought the yahoo thang was a good idea as well!..

What jchimim said (post #32),

all I want to add is that I had a great time here and
I'm glad that I had the chance to meat you all.

However, no need to be sad, it was just a place to meat,
and there are plenty of other places for that purpose.

So I hope to see you all again soon at the place
where no walk on eggshells is allowed.
Or just let me know where you will hang around. :-)

cheers
Thomas

"...or moisture around Vicky's genitals are off limits..." You've gotta be kidding me. I'd like to know what this NeoCon controlled web site finds obscene about vaginal moisture. This must be Tammy's doing. Why does Spike have so much power? I thought Mr. and Mrs. Choad or whatever their name is were running things around here? Or is Spike simply their golden boy? Good boy, Spike! Good boy!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rosityofftopichideout/ A lot of us have made and joined this site today, you are welcome to join us there :)

"86. Re: The OT forum has been closed down by kawecki on 5/10/04 12:48 Before this post is locked or deleted: Stupid and ignorant religious fanatics that try to call themselves as "Christians" cannot tolerate FREEDOM, you must be a stupid and ignorant sheep following your stupid and ignorant Pastor, nothing more!" For those who are here obviously wondering why the ot forum is closed now, I suspect it had everything to do with posts such as this one. Some people thought it was ok, to make clear attacks on anyone who believes in a certain faith, or religion, such as the one above, and then wanted to run around claiming how unfair they are being treated because they simply disagree with the religion or any religion of any kind. And then got banned. To that I would point out, that interestingly enough I have yet to see anyone of the Christians who come here, calling any of the athiests, any kind of names such as the above qouted post does. So if some of you want to lay some blame on anyone, for the OT's closure, I suggest you point the finger sqaurely at those who made posts such as the one I have qouted above. Some wanted too make posts such as the one qouted above and then claim, "its just my opinion" or, "I just disagree with any kind of religion." or some other excuse for it. Well the above qouted post is NOT disagreement, its name calling. Period. As not only myself, but several other members, have tried to point out to some, repeatedly, you can disagree with a person's religous views, all day long till the cows come home, we all have that right. YOU DO NOT however have the right to insult an entire religion by calling it, and its members names such as the above qouted post does.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell

...thats right Mr BDC, it might be that *Christians like the imfamous TalmidBen and his like were posting their hatefull filth before you arrived here?, I for one rember the stuff they said about unbelievers and it was not very polite! I see that you deleted the previous version of you message, you must have noticed the sandy ground it was built on and decided to shift on to something more stony but not quite a rock. Very best wishes. Brendan.

"For those who are here obviously wondering why the ot forum is closed now, I suspect it had everything to do with posts such as this one." Closing the forum was a decision by the site owners, and well within their rights. Whether or not it was due to (non)religios threads, political threads, cat threads, or whatever, doesn't matter. What should matter is taking something from an entire group of folks because of the actions of a few. Some people drive drunk, should the government ban booze? Some people commit murder, should the government ban firearms? Some Muslims are terrorists, should the world exterminate Muslims? Some dogs attack people, should we ban dogs? (Only an idiot would answer "yes" to any of these questions.)

"Some people thought it was ok, to make clear attacks on anyone who believes in a certain faith, or religion, such as the one above, and then wanted to run around claiming how unfair they are being treated because they simply disagree with the religion or any religion of any kind. And then got banned." What I saw were two people who didn't know enough to walk away from beating a dead horse. Neither of whom practiced what they preached. And when they couldn't reason with the unreasonable they escalated to pointless ugliness. Ignore offensive people and they eventually disappear. Their opinions shouldn't matter enough to respond to.

BDC, to be fair, you are pointing out one post where YOU is used, making it an obvious personal attack. (jettboy, you didn't help here). The mods can deal with a member for such attacks, that is there job. What is not apparent is that any implication of disaggreement or complaint about some so called christian behaviors VS claiming christianity as a free pass. Saying I am offended that you think the Bible wasn't written by the hand of God does not mean that thinking the Bible was not written by the hand of God and saying so is a personal attack. This is the truth of what was really going on in OT for the most part. This is why closing the forum has upset so many and why they can't understand where the TOS violation of personal attack was so violated the forum had to be closed. You would think there had been a virtual riot. I am not saying that you responded in such a way at OT, but comments like the one you cited were were much more clear than the type I am citing.

I don't care about insults or personal attacks, but what BDC posted about me is a violation of the TOS and a difamatory action against me`, because people are not able to read the OT's posts anymore. BDC, tell me which religion I have attacked, Catholics, Luterans, Anglicans, Baptist, Mormons, Pentecostals, Methodists, Armenians, Syrians, etc, etc, etc??? I have only attacked any religion or members that fit the definition "stupid, ignorant and religious fanatics" I don't want any post deleted, locked or member punished due to this BDC's TOS violation!

Stupidity also evolves!

Well - as has been posted above there are at least 3 new locations for us to discuss OT matters. (new yahoo site, PP's chicken coop, Rendervisions OT) See you there.

This thread isn't locked yet? Dear God! Where are the authorities when you need them most? Anyone enjoying the irony of this OT thread about the removal of the OT forum while OT slander neeners are filling it up!?!? I know I am. LOCK THE THREAD LOCK THE THREAD LOCK THE THREAD!! 8P

"LOCK THE THREAD LOCK THE THREAD LOCK THE THREAD!!" ....sometime soon I expect...we are just being allowed a swansong before the whole thing snuffs it.... ..ah dee-doo, ah dee-doo dah day, ah dee doo, ah dee day dee...

You know what, this is a waste of time. Obviously some people only wait to yell lock the thread rather then question why the PTB have never clearly answered a simple question that they have been asked again and again, here and at OT. 86 posts before impatience set in. Yeah, those OT people must be rabid dogs that need to be destroyed. wait, is that a violation of TOS? I guess you win.

As some have proved above, I had to lock this thread down as well. It always starts off as a simple debate and turns into a attack fest. That is why the OT forum was closed. Nothing more, nothing less.

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour