I got my tax return, and I'm spending part of it on software, Rhino 3 upgrade, and possibly Carrara 3.. Can somebody sell me on the Carrara 3 upgrade, from v2.1. Beside HDRI what am I going to gain form it, is the rendering that much better? thanks kaom

And how is the content CD ? Did they make it a worthwhile CD?

You wont beleive it, I was looking at Carrara only yesterday and wondering if it was a better bet than a sidegrade to Vue Pro. I like the look of the HDRI, and some other things look nice. I will watch this thread with interest!

Brian

Fortitudine Vincimus - "by endurance we conquer."

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IF you use the Vertex Modeller you will be surprised, big enhancements in there. The Non-Photorealistic Render opens new worlds too. Just do it. The content CD keeps having the same old models, which import with all parts slightly rotated on my system (Dual Processor G4 Mac OSX 10.2), but I hardly ever use them. There are some newer models, but nothing very worthwile, in my opinion. The hdri files are great though. I wonder, do more people have problems when opening the models that were already featured on the Content Disc since the early Ray Dream days?

There are alot of new features like the tree editor and the vertex modeler now has Sub-D modeling so you create organic models much easier. I think the content cd has the same models but a few extras like some HDRI stuff. The rendering is much better. Download the demo, thats what got me to upgrade :)

I should mentioned, I do 98% of my modeeling in Rhino, so the modelers don't really matter to me. What I really use Carrara for is texturing ad rendering. I do some animationin it, like flying logos and techy type stuff, no character stuff at all. I use Flamingo (Rhino Render plugin) with Rhino, but it's not really an animation app. I like Carrara for its scene building rendering. So those are the factors that matter for me in upgrading. I'm wondering about the speed over v2, and I'm interested in all the new rendering options in 3.. And had the texturing changed at all? thanks kaom

I had the demo a while ago, but I didn't have time to play with it enough, it usually takes me a while to get into a program, so I didn't discover it - so to speak...

Ok, there is a new Scene Wizard with alot of options so you can build scenes in no time. I think it's much faster the v2 and the tesselation has been improved overall. Rendering is awesome, some of the features are Raytracing, Global Illumination and Caustics. There is a Draft Render for Wireframes and to check out your animations. And the NPR (Non-Photo-Realistic) render wich has effects like sketches and painting effects. The renderer is also very fast! As for texturing, I think it has improved and v3 now has UV Mapping built in. Like I said in the previous post the Tree Editor is cool also, you can even make custom leaves. There is a $15 plugin that allows you to apply morphs to your models for character animation. Its a great program and keeps getting better. I think you would be very happy upgrading to v3.

The global illumination rendering and the built in UV mapping really appeal to me. I'm a Rhino man as well for modelling, but I find Flamingo a bit limited and slow for renders.

Brian

Fortitudine Vincimus - "by endurance we conquer."

Global Illuminations speed has been VASTLY improved in version 3. I found it unusable on version 2 (because of render times) but now I use it all the time. That alone is worth the upgrade on my opinion. It makes the most simple images look great. And you could also expriment with HDRI. It is a very solid upgrade. Good luck : ) fjv

Yep, Velarde is right about the GI render times. Another thing I enjoy is many of the lighting effects are now real-time instead of a post-render filters... There are a ton of other little improvements in Carrara too. As a view Vue user also, I can say I appreciate Carrara's stability. Mark

In re the v.2 to v.3 upgrade; I spend most of my time in the vertex modeller and the changes there were well worth it. Adding creasing to the existing sub-D's there meant I could roll up complex smooth shapes very quickly. Vertex modeller also increased the ways to work with selections, and integrated the background picture into the application where I can now place front, top, and side reference pics right in the modelling window. Tthe render engine got a streamlined interface and GI seems to have sped up by two times or more. Carrara can do a scene with real radiosity in a tenth the time that Bryce can fake it with multiple lights. Did the tree modeller come in this upgrade? I can't remember now. The atmospherics have increased options enough to offer a Bryce-like "sky lab." And, not a small point, the whole thing feels extremely solid and darn near bullet-proof. I don't think I've managed to crash it once.

Stable, snappy and smooth are words that come to mind with this upgrade. Being a RayDream user as well as a Infini-D, I believe that Carrara 3 has finally matured in to a very comprehensive package. Just the feel of it has really improved and although the interface has changed, I think it has been enhanced for better usability. Definitely, I do recommend to upgrade. But then again, I do all my modeling in it so to me the enhancements in this area where very welcomed.

Some of the DCG plugins, combined with the Amapi 7 importer, cause Carrara 3 to give error #44's when trying to save renders. Otherwise, Carrra 3 is great.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Does Shader Ops come with Carrara 3? I'm trying to figure out exactly what comes with it.. Does power pack come with it too as part of it? thanks guys kaom

I think Shader Ops comes with Power Pack which is a valuable addition to C3 but costs extra. I don't use shader ops much myself but Anything Grows and Anything Groves are quiet useful.

There's a sales office here in San Diego, I can go buy i directly......Nice................ Thanks guys, I want the power pack, it sounds pretty cool. thanks kaom

At their site it says it comes with 300 new shaders, are they part of the install or are they separate shaders you have to install separately?

Oh and I almost forgot, a most important question for me to know. In Carrara v2, when I'd build something very complex in Rhino and export it, like a car, Carrara would run very slowly, and sometiems choke on it. Is Carrara 3 any better with handling large files being imported, does the interface run smoothly, because in v2 there was a small limit of what it would handle.... thanks kaom

Who's got the best deal on v3 upgrade?

Ok, The soft shadows improvement is MASSIVE! I personally believe that's the most important change from 2 to 3 and it makes a huge improvement. I've been able to generate renders in 3 that I would consider impossible previously (not exaggerating here folks). HDRI rocks. The GI renderer is better altogether and produces some really great stuff. Object selectable 3D Aura is another personal fave that was added making some of my stuff possible versus painful post production. The plant editor is new for 3. It's very cool. Plants are hard without it unless you've got some other tool. I think it is a BIG improvement over 2 but note, a lot of the changes might be considered subtle for some. Lots of the these improvements are bent on pushing Carrara to produce heavier hitting images (which it does). Some of our previous Lightwave converts away from Carrara are back here I've noticed. That should say something. -Kix

-Kix

And another question, how is the HDRI in Carrara? Is it easy to use? Is it effective in its results? Are there any good tutorials around for setting up HDRI in Carrara? thanks kaom

Attached Link: http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=009275

Here's a link to sample renders of the same model in various 3D programs. On page 3 is my uploaded render done in Carrara 3.0.3 which I think is one of the best looking renders of the bunch.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

That's a pretty awsome render man. Damn, Is that using HDRI and GI? What's the secret? Great work!

Well I decided to go ahead and buy it.. Hopefully Carrara 3 and Rhino 3 arrive on the same day, that will be a happy day soon. I'll get priority shipping. I'm just afraid I'm gonna buy Carrara, then they're going to release Flamingo 2.0, and I know for a fact, I'm going to want that. Flamingo is an amzing renderer, slower than hell, but a super nice program.. thanks kaom

I just ordered it too! I am very impressed by the features and enthusiasm of you guys here. Thank you all very much for your insights.

Brian

Fortitudine Vincimus - "by endurance we conquer."

Carrara has always been a good companion for Rhino, it should be better now... I anxious to get my hands on it.. So am I to understand that v3 is standing up to Lighwave now? Is it getting closer to that level? thanks for the help kaom

As a Lightwave user for years I can offer my opinion. There are many things that Carrara has that I wish Lightwave had. The plant generator, faster GI and caustics, and numerous others. Also, rendering in general in Carrara to me is much faster than Lightwave. Reflection, transparency and shadows render quicker in my opinion. The interface takes getting used to compared to Lightwave, but its that way when you switch to any application. Lightwave is much more robust with regard to animation capabilities. The spreadsheet function in LW offers a lot of possibilities with regard to modifying many objects or parameters. One thing I like better in Carrara is the integration of the modeler within the program. Lightwave forces you to use a seperate program, but the Modeler and Layout (LW's Assembly) communicate with each other. But I find it much more work friendly to have it all in one app. LW's modeler is much better than Carrara in my opinion, but again remember Lightwave has been around since the early 90's with the video toaster. The booleans in Lightwave are very good compared with Carrara. The Layout application for Lightwave is much better than Carrara with regards to setting up animations and motions. The surfacer is also somewhat more powerful. In Lightwave you can specify a position where a texture or procedural function is placed. This allows easy animation of a moving texture or procedural bump for example. The placement controls are there for each channel and layer. Environment mapping is object dependent rather than scene. So you can have a different environment map for each object and control the angle in which it is projected. There is also builtin displacement mapping that works great. Objects in Layout can also have clip maps applied. this can be done in the surface properties also like Carrara. It achieves similar results doing it at the object level, but it is much quicker to render as opposed to rendering the transparency in the surface. Lightwave also allows "Baking" of radiosity. While in my opinion Carrara's GI soloution is better and quicker. The ability to "Bake" textures is great especially in doing animated walkthroughs of architecture. As long as there are no moving objects during the animation. The radiosity is computed once. Then these textures are applied to the model(s). This greatly cuts down the time need to do Global Illumination walkthroughs. Lightwave also has a much larger community of course. There are tutorials for most anything for Lightwave. Newtek also maintains their own forums and the foums are very active. Having said all that I am very pleased with what Carrara is capable of doing. Especially when you factor in the price point. The latest upgrade for Lightwave cost about as much as Carrara cost me. I have not upgraded yet, since I am satisfied with what LW does already. However, I mentioned this before, if I were a power user, then Carrara might not be as attractive. The aforementioned animation tools and large community are valuable assets. Not to mention Lightwave has free network rendering. Can be tough to get it setup, but it is totally free. Arrays of objects in Modeler and Layout are easy. This is one area where Carrara is severely lacking. Particles in Lightwave are integrated much better also. The addition of HyperVoxels to the particles brings partciles to a new dimension. Lightwave has collision objects too. In Carrara you are limited to the floor. Forces such as rotation and bounce with parameters for friction are also provided. Of course each application has many more features than I touched on here, but these have been the most immediate differences I have noticed. For now, Carrara is capable enough that I want to continue to explore it and get better with it. Eovia has shown a commitment to not only attending to user's requests but also in providing improvements in features that are starting to compare with the big boys. Donnie

I used GI lighting from a HDRI spherical background for that render.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

If i could afford Lightwave, I'd buy it in a second..But I can't, so I use programs I can afford....All of my software is worth way more than Lightwave, but I didn't buy it all at one time.. For now Rhino/Carrara is the way to go for me.. thanks' kaom

I'm really liking Amapi 7 Pro. I tried the Rhino 3.0 demo. But it seemed unfinished as an interface or modeler when compared to Amapi 7 Pro's ease of use and power.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Carrara is definately a great program. It does lack a few really basic things like being able to rotate a projected texture or HDRI map about an arbitary axis, but as a whole is great for the price. HDRI/GI are really fast. I am using an athlon 850MHz and I often leave GI on with anti-aliasing even when I am doing test renders. I do have some problems with area lights producing aritifacts on anything but the best light quality settings. I have had the odd crash now and then but nothing where I lost my work as I was still able to save and restart the program once the error had occured. There are a few bugs here and there but there is nothing that has really impared my enjoyment of the software. I am really looking forward to version 4 as the quality of this product seems to be increasing exponentially. It should be excellent. One concern for me is that they will never really beef up the modeller as it would start to compete with Amapi which if is true is a bit of a shame but we will just have to wait and see.

If Carrara 3 didn't have HDRI I would probobly be waiting for version 4. But I'm really into the whole HDRI thing right now, and I don't own a program that supports real HDRI. That's a big selling point for me. That and the fact that rendering is much better and has more options.. From what I've seen, it looks like v3 can render some very photorealistic ultra high quality images... And that's what I'm really after. thanks kaom

This has all made for some interesting reading. I currently use version 2.1 and although I really like the renderer quality I have yetto upgrade to 3 due to the lack of improvements in character animation(fbx support, pose mixing ect.)and more advancements in modeling. Does anyone know of plans for future advancement in these areas?