I am the owner of Poser4.Recently,I had some problems with making avis in Poser.So,I wrote the Tech dept at Curious.I asked what Video I should choose for the Best pic,etc,when the window pops up in Poser4.Simple question.For some reason the tech would not just tell me what was best.He said some things I did not understand so I asked again.I then got this Flip response.I hope ALL techs at Curious are NOT this way.It is NO way to do business.Here is the response I got back after writing 2 other times just asking for a simple answer.Subj: Re: Question about What to set Microsoft Video1 at Date: 10/13/00 11:44:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: tech@curiouslabs.com (Tech) Reply-to: tech@curiouslabs.com (Tech) To: BIGPOWERLIFTER@aol.com I cannot teach you what is in the manual and what you need to learn from educational sources. You need read the previous letters and if this confuses you do your own research. We do not act as a multimedia consultancy firm. Tech

Yea,Like I said.................LOL.It was flip,as well as childish.All I asked was what do I check off when the window pops up in Poser4 to make an animation.Which video to use.I eventually tried them ALL and I figured it out myself.That tech should not be writing emails.Thanks Blue :0)

I hope this is not what we have to look forward to when Poser 5 comes around. hmmmm

After two years in Tech support i can say the answer that you got was from someone that didn't know what to say and was mad that you know more that he/she did...the final line is...they have no clue and/or knowledge of the product they make (yes this is fact of life) Jarek (ex A*T tech support ;^) )

It would be interesting to see what you sent to them to provoke a blunt response. As an analogy, while Curious Labs would need to explain to you about how to render images at certain sizes and resolutions, they should not have to tell you why those various sizes and resolutions are suitable for some jobs and not for others. Likewise, they can explain to you about the import features of their program, but they shouldn't have to tell you how the Windows or Mac file structure works. It seems pretty clear to me that you were asking a question that was outside of the remit of Poser, and outside of Curious Labs' responsiblity to answer. If you kept on asking the question, in the end you were inevitably going to receive a polite but curt reply telling you you're not going to get an answer. Eventually you found the best video format for your needs by trying them out, and that really says it all. As my parents occasionally said to me when I was growing up; 'look with your eyes, not your mouth.'

It is still ok to be more polite in responding, even if the question posed is abrupt (as they often sound in emails), demanding (as ALL customers sound) or boneheaded (as are most of my questions). The tech is not your problems, Artis3D, he is CuriousLab's problem....let's hope they become aware of this soon. The customer is NOT always right in what they think or want, but they ARE always right to be able to ask questions.... Scarab <-"You want fries with that?"

Why ask Curious Labs anything? All the answers you need can be found here or at commune. Personally, and this will help not at all probably, I export my (simple) animations to bitmap series, so I can play with them in photoshop frame by frame. Then I join them together in Premiere into an uncompressed format, then use my tv capture card to experiment with various types of compression. I haven't done one in a long time, so I forget what I settled on but probably mpeg4 is best...not really sure, but there are plenty of folks here that can answer your questions in the 3d animation forum or in the hardware/technical forum. -Darth_Logice

If you can avoid using the microsoft video, do so. Generally I use the cinepak compression format, it gives a better set of options and color renditions. It's also better to export as single images and stitch them together (better color quality and resolution) in a video publishing program as Darth_Logice suggested above.

As someone who has ALSO done tech support and out of plain curiousity: I'd also would like to know if you looked at the manual! The first part of your message states that you had problems with making .avi's. IF you had TECHNICAL issues then I can see where the tech could/should help you. Perhaps you need to get some codecs, perhaps you don't have enough memeory to do what you wanted, etc. Issues dealiing with the failure of the product to do what was promoted, a bug discovery etc. That is a entirely different issue than what compression method should you use to make the best animation. If the tech gave you some options and suggestions so that YOU could decide what was BEST then that is up to you. Apparently, you sent numerous e-mails about an issue that was in the manual, or dealt with matters that the techs could (should?) not assist you with and "bugging" them was not going to resolve the issue. PJF kinda summed it up.

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

check out the DivX codec...nothing short of incredible... click on the trailers link to see what i mean ... http://divx.ctw.cc/index_main.html

Y'all have a great day.

Listen,for one thing,PLEASE don't have the nerve to ASSume I didn't look at the manual.I DID and DO ALOT.I asked a simple question which DID fall into a "Technical" question.I was neither rude or flip.The Techs response WAS.NO need for that.Plain and simple.Oh and PJF,since WHEN are you psychic?"It seems pretty clear to me that you were asking a question that was outside of the remit of Poser, and outside of Curious Labs' responsiblity to answer".I neither emailed or asked you anything.So don't judge me.If you actually READ what I said,you would see I asked what was the Best choice for rendering an avi when the window pops up in Poser4 asking me to choose.VERY simple question,AND within a reasonable question.It amazes me how some people make determinations without any facts.I treat people the way I want to be treated,in ALL facets.

It would help if you included your question, then the tech's answer. Among other things, someone here might have been able to answer the question you sent to Curious Labs.

Thaks Crescent.I appreciate that.I solved it myself.Thanks again :0)

If you actually READ what I said,you would see I asked what was the Best choice for rendering an avi when the window pops up in Poser4 asking me to choose. <<<<<<<<<<<<< That you just said that satisfies me that you are the one at fault in this issue, not the tech support person. Your comprehension tools are obviously not the sharpest set in the shed. I had read what you said, and it was clear you were asking an inappropriate and meaningless question as far as Poser is concerned. If there was one clear best codec to use for video for all purposes, it would just happen automatically when you rendered. The fact that there is a choice should illustrate to you that it is a user option, for the user to choose depending on his or her circumstances. It is for the user to decide, based on his or her needs outside of Poser, which is the best. All Curious Labs has to do is provide the options and make sure they work properly. In my image editing program, I have lots of options for different file formats for exporting an image to. Which one I choose depends on why I am exporting it. That's my choice, one I make based on my wider experience in computer graphics. There is no general 'Best' option, and the program maker is not obliged to educate me in all the aspects of publishing requirements that occur outside of their program. I wouldn't be so utterly stupid as to keep asking them the same question once they'd explained that to me. I don't need to be psychic to deduce that you are the one at fault here, not Curious Labs or their technical support personel. You have come onto a public forum attacking them with the end quarter of a story which is taken out of context and just plain wrong. Several people have failed to look beyond the surface of your posting and now believe that the company is lacking. That's what I find really sad. Your behaviour is abysmal. Curious Labs have to be professionally polite, but I don't. You are remarkably stupid and self centred to boot. You have erroneously sullied the name of a good company in public, for the simple fact that you were too proud to be able to understand that you were being an idiot. It could be that it wasn't pride alone. It could also be that you are actually too unintelligent to appreciate that you are wrong. I fully suspect that you will now compound the error...

I can smell 3DMax getting more users.... and PJF i think you are a looser (hey you you start it) the tech could give simple answer just like you did about the images...and it would be end of converstion....i still can say that this was an answer of someone that had no idea what computer is and how to use it...and fo company that is trying to make it....they are going in the wrong direction..they loose more customers than gain..after all poser can't compare to 3DMax or Rhino or Cinema.. Where i work now, even though there are lots of people that are stupid, i'm not able to give this kind of answer...i will loose my job for that.. Jarek (got to go to work now )

Oooo...and customer is ALWAYS right...remember that boy

LOL, looser than what? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...the tech could give simple answer just like you did about the images...and it would be end of converstion <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I think it very likely that he did give such an answer, and that Artist3D couldn't accept it ("For some reason the tech would not just tell me what was best."). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i still can say that this was an answer of someone that had no idea what computer is and how to use it... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I see that your comprehension skills are on a par with Artist 3D's. The tech's answer is clearly one of someone who has attempted to explain something, up to a point, on several occasions ("You need read the previous letters...") but has finally given up trying to flog a dead horse. There is nothing impolite or 'nasty' in the tech's reply. It is simply abrupt and to the point. Eventually, things get to the point where you can't sugar coat them. This question is not the responsiblity of Curious Labs to answer. They tried to explain to a certain degree, but beyond that it was up to the user to ascertain their own needs. That's all there is to it. While they were wasting time with this non Poser issue, there was most likely another user waiting with a genuine Poser enquiry. Now that really is nasty.

Listen PJF,Do NOT involve me in something SOMEONE ELSE says about you.Now,let's see what you are rambling about,"If there was one clear best codec to use for video for all purposes, it would just happen automatically when you rendered"....Well MicrosoftVideo1 Opens up "automatically"and when I used that the Avi was jittery and skipped frames (as other artists have said at Renderosity, even in THIS post..i.e. 10. Re: The Nasty Tech at CuriousLabs by blud on 10/15 13:22 "If you can avoid using the microsoft video, do so" )so you are wrong.Second you say..."I wouldn't be so utterly stupid as to keep asking them the same question once they'd explained that to me."Well,I asked the same question more than once BECAUSE "they" DIDN'T answer me.Can't you read?I SAID that in my post.I also find it "sad"that you get enjoyment making fun of Jarek who probably is from another country and learning English,yet you yourself cannot spell..i.e. "centred"..the word is centered, "Your behaviour",the word is behavior,...and please don't even BOTHER to see if I spelled anything wrong,I UNLIKE you don't go around calling people stupid.I also hate to break the news to you,but another member of Renderosity had the SAME problem with an uncalled for attitude from probably the same tech.I NEVER "sullied" CuriousLabs,just a nasty employee.Unfortunately,alot of companies have them.You sound like one.I feel sorry for you.I never called anyone "stupid",or"self centered"as you chose to do.I am curious,have you reached the age of eighteen yet?You need to grow up and realize your ramblings are mean spirited,nasty,and childish.I eventually found what to choose for the best codec and I am sure most of Curious Labs has employees that are fine.I love Poser and always have.The response I was sent by one rude,flip employee does not make me judge the company as a whole.End of story......Though I am sure you will ramble a bit more.Enjoy yourself.

As I expected, you've compounded your error and still don't understand. It is causing me some mild amusement - please continue. Best of all, how about posting all the correspondence between yourself and Curious Labs relating to this issue. I suggested this in my first post to the thread, but I'm not surprised it hasn't happened. I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen, either... I have no idea whether English is Jarek's first language or not, and that knowledge is irrelevant. My opinion of him is based not on his (multi?) linguistic skills, but on his comprehension. My amusement at the use of 'looser' instead of 'loser' was entirely coincidental to anybody's country of origin. My country of origin is England, and English is my first language. Like everyone else, I make the occasional typographical error; but my spelling is generally good. The words you chose to pick me up on are spelt correctly in contemporary native English. The spelling you used is American English. Both are correct, but you'll have to forgive me if I choose to continue to use the language as spoken and written in the land of its birth. The fact that you were completely unaware of alternative spellings and uses of the English language around the world points usefully to those two attributes of yours which I have irritated you by mentioning. Latest score: Curious Labs - ten. Artist3D - minus several million.

Um....PJF...you wouldn't happen to BE the tech from CuriousLabs, would you? Scarab

Marque goes looking for her shovel. ;)

Ewwww again. Ick. Artist3D! Bad show old boy! Take on the Brits and the Queen's English! What a sodding idiot. A total git. Accessorize (Accessorise) Armor (Armour), Bar (Public House, or 'Pub'), Color (Colour), Center (Centre), Check (Cheque), Candy (Sweet), Condominium or Apartment (Flat), Elevator (Lift), Harbor (Harbour), Honor (Honour), Humor (Humour), Fantasize (Fantasise), Fetus (Foetus), Labor (Labour), Money Check (Cheque), Sidewalk (Pavement), Symbolize (Symbolise) Stairwell (Staircase), President (Queen), Garbage and Trash (Rubbish), pissed (means 'drunk', use 'pissed off'), Railroad (Railway), Trunk (Boot), Bathroom (Loo/WC), Locomotive (Train), Pants (means underwear, use 'trousers')

I have read all of the above and found it interesting. Artist3D, you have asked a question for which there is no right or wrong answer. Each compressor used in poser has an advantage and dis-advantage. The number od compressor options you have on you computer is different than everyone elses, the compressorors have to be loaded so all computers are not the same. I read you first post and noticed right away that you did NOT post the first responce from the Tech. Why? It would appear that more and more of this comunity want things handed to them on a silver plate, one button click and demand that everyone servise them and there needs. Hmmmm sounds like 1984 comes to reality. Karl.

To avoid this kinda thing in the future. I think the techs should feel free to point these newbies to the Links page on the Curious Labs site. The less said the better. A simple: " Please go to our user groups and ask them for help and opinions on this issue. They are better equipped to answer your questions and are eager to help" That's all it takes. You guys paying attention Curious Labs? Send them our way. Don't even mess with them. These forums are better equipped to walk folks through the simple stuff. That's why we're here to begin with. Isn't it? ScottA

I can understand the response to a certain extent by the third email, if you keep asking the same question most tech support types will react that way. I remember once asking a student "which word don't you understand" after I had explained in detail about 5 times how to compile a pascal program on a UNIX command line. It was one of the reason I got a mock certificate in "gunboat diplomacy" from my colleagues :) Which is not to say that belittling people is the right way to go about things, and as far as this forum is concerened I should imagine it will backfire on Curious Labs in future, but dealing with the clients, customers, and the general public can be very trying at times. Sometimes it can be very hard not to be sarcastic, and if you don't want them to keep asking the easiest thing to do is simply be curt with them. Sad but true. later jb

Hi, Colorize (whay must ...ise always be spelled with a z?) This is the "English" language, it's not "colorized" but coloured. You don't get burglarized, you are burgled... Fish, barrel, smoking gun :) later jb

I'm sorry... personally, having worked in a customer service based industry, I know there are certain things you do and don't do if you wish to keep customers. The tech in question was rude and showed a HUGE lack of customer service skills. The fact that it appears he lost his temper only demonstrates this further. While the tech may have been correct in telling Artist3D that they could not help him. The way the tech told him was bad. Personally, I think the tech should be reprimanded. You just don't treat customers that way. True fact: A happy customer tells 3-5 people of his experience, an unhappy customer tells 20-30. Moral: Keep customers happy.

...well this thread was most delicious... : ) - Dave

I KNEW that PJF could not resist seeing his or her ramblings once again.You are SO easy!LOL.I did not post any other email because I did not have any,but the FACTS were stated here.I asked a question about a feature in Poser4 and I was emailed a flip,nasty response.Plain and simple.There was NO reason for that,ESPECIALLY from a tech working for a company.It was inappropriate and uncalled for.End of story.I have always said I love Poser4 and I am sure Curious Labs is a great company,I do not judge by one persons actions.PJF,we here in America speak the English language ,so if it is not to your liking then don't trash it.I only pointed out your spelling due to the fact that YOU, not I, get enjoyment in trying(and failing miserably)to degrade and belittle people(i.e Jarek and myself).Your calling people "stupid",and "self centered"only shows how much you need a good shrink(that's a psychiatrist here in America).I am not surprised you magically ignore my other FACTS in my #20 Post.You seem to only see what you choose to see.I could care less how you spell things in Britain, I live in America,and I do not answer to a "Queen".You may spell things the British way,I spell them the American way.To each his/her own.At least I do not make fun of people who have trouble either typing or speaking if they are possibly foreign(Jarek),and if it makes you feel either superior or important to call people names or try to get personal I truly feel sorry for you.Good luck,take your meds,and God bless(the Queen too).Oh and to Mehndi,I live in AMERICA you got a problem with that? 24. Garbage, utter Rubbish by Mehndi on 10/17 14:26 "Ewwww again. Ick. Artist3D! Bad show old boy! Take on the Brits and the Queen's English! What a sodding idiot. A total git" I have no desire to "take on" snobs nor a Queen.I have friends in Britain and they certainly are NOT like you or PJF.My friends are ADULTS.And since you think I am a "sodding idiot"(Oh,I'm going to cry,LMAO),and a "total git" maybe I should meet you in person and show you that you are incorrect.You and your friend need professional help.I hope you receive it. :0)

I'll admit, Sometimes I have an off day (or two) and act nasty. (And I don't work for Curious Labs.) I've interacted over the phone with techs on some detailed matters which I knew nothing about accomplishing. Having to describe things to them and understanding their responses can be difficult. And all I can imagine is how those Techs have to hold their composure and extend their patience to the limit. It doesn't always work, maybe this guy just had a bad day. Were you a bit fustrated over your Poser problem, that both of you joined in on a 'bad hairday'?

Artist3d, do NOT assume that because I chose to toss you on your arse for attacking the English language that I am either a friend of PJF or in need of whatever help you fantasize I need. I merely am a fan and friend of English, and would not like to see us all resorting to poor English, poor typing, or poor grammar. If you wish to nitpick on English, next time make sure to put at least one space, preferably two to be absolutely correct (though I myself use one) between EVERY period and the beginning of a new sentence. This running things together into one long sentence assaults my eyes. Whilst it is clear that your anger is genuine at the tech at CuriousLabs, it is also clear to me that your premise for anger is in doubt. I would grow irritated with you in time also if you expected me to know everything for you about end usage file format choices, instead of making your own choices based upon the many variables that go with each output on each circumstance. Which AVI format cannot be determined readily in a cut and dried "one is best over others" answer, and the tech likely was voicing his frustration over your inability to see that. I ask you though, is your hurt pride over this tech's not doing your experimenting and thinking for you worth costing him his job? Can your conscience take that? I could not, nor would I go on a jousting trip down the middle of the city street screaming at the top of my lungs to try to cost him his job either.

IF Artist3D did insult the tech then the tech should not have replied at all. He should have just ignored it or passed it along to someone else to handle. I am sure he is not the only tech at curious labs. I have worked many jobs dealing with customers face to face and no matter how wrong the customer is you do not insult them.

True enough, make them feel like an idiot by all means, but don't insult them :) later jb

I think I'll move this to C&D ;-)

Just to make thinks clear , YES English is my second language and Im in Canada where we WASTE money on the so call QUEEN bull s**t.

I chimed in in this earlier and I have to again. Artist 3d in your very first message you wrote: >> I am the owner of Poser4. Recently,I had some problems with making avis in Poser. So,I wrote the Tech dept at Curious. I asked what Video I should choose for the Best pic, etc,when the window pops up in Poser4. Simple question.<< Here in is the problem as I stated in my message: If you had a true PROBLEM with making .AVI's then the Tech at Curious Labs SHOULD and be obligated to be help you. The issue was YOU wanted to know what would be the best for YOUR video. The Tech could not help you with that. Thats the FIRST time you asked. >>For some reason the tech would not just tell me what was best. He said some things I did not understand so I asked again. I then got this Flip response. I hope ALL techs at Curious are NOT this way.<< This section of your message lends us to think that this all took place on the FISRT communication with Curious Labs. But this is NOT so because you later write: >>Here is the response I got back after writing 2 other times just asking for a simple answer. Subj: Re: Question about What to set Microsoft Video1 at Date: 10/13/00 11:44:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time<< By this we can correctly surmise that this is at least the THIRD time you asked the question, not about a technical problem, but what choices YOU SHOULD MAKE for your video. >>>Subj: Re: Question about What to set Microsoft Video1 at Date: 10/13/00 11:44:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: tech@curiouslabs.com (Tech) Reply-to: tech@curiouslabs.com (Tech) To: BIGPOWERLIFTER@aol.com I cannot teach you what is in the manual and what you need to learn from educational sources. You need read the previous letters and if this confuses you do your own research. We do not act as a multimedia consultancy firm. Tech << From this response from the Tech at Curious Labs, there were PREVIOUS LETTERS (Again, we can guess that there were at LEAST three responses from Curious Labs) You were referred to the Manual, and you had the repsonces from Curious Labs. The thread continues in your second message: >>Yea,Like I said...LOL. It was flip, as well as childish. All I asked was what do I check off when the window pops up in Poser4 to make an animation. Which video to use. I eventually tried them ALL and I figured it out myself. That tech should not be writing emails. Thanks Blue :0)<< The answer is not flip nor childish, given the information you've given in this thread. You've not provided all of the e-mails (Nor should you have to, but if you're going to make a statement like you did, you should back it up.)

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

Something to consider, and that I am curious on, is did you provide proof of ownership to the Tech in the form of a serial number, and are you a registered user? You see, due to the large availability of pirated versions of Poser, as well as most other expensive graphic and production software, one tends to get a VERY cold shoulder if one is asking for something that the company feels was adequately covered in the manuel. There is a reason for this of course, and that is that most stolen versions do not have the manuels, and a dead giveaway that one might be a thief is lack of having read one's manuel. Now please, before you believe I am saying you are a thief, I am not. I am suggesting however, that this could explain the reference to your manuel in his email.

A good point.... Scarab

Just a quick add in... Reading the manual isn't necessarily going to obviate the question, Poser's manuals and documentation is curiously lacking in detailed information on some aspects of the program's features. So is the Bryce manual: If it weren't, I wouldn't have to answer detailed questions on using solo-mode in bryce or object selection options several times a week in chat. Nor would you need tutorials or aftermarket books on either program and Susan Kitchens would have been out of business before "Real World Bryce2" was published. No matter what the question or attitude of the customer, it's the job of customer service representatives to be: Polite, reasonable, and non-insulting. They're job is to act as a public interface for the company. If a disgruntled customer comes in and then leaves more pissed then they arrived, they're going to another company. Period. Ask AT&T. Note: I don't speak English, I speak Ammuriken, they's a difference. Fahr away, ya'll... Heh. "Total git"? Haven't heard that one in a while. Good show. Btw, Hi Moltinangel! [Waves up the thread]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Artist3D wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not post any other email because I did not have any... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Well hands up, anyone who is surprised by that. Apart from the mild amusement value, the benefit to continue pressing Artist3D on this issue has been to draw him/her out into revealing his/her true nature. Normally I couldn't give a toss about anyone's stupidity, since it usually only affects themselves. However, this person chose to publicly trash a technical support employee because of a limitation to their own intelligence. That employee's job is potentially at risk over this idiot, and I won't sit idly by while that is the case. I say it again, the Curious Labs tech was not rude or insulting. His reply was curt and abrupt because there was no point in continuing the fruitless exchange. It's not like he told the guy to fuck off and die. {If anyone continues to believe the tech was rude and insulting, just read what the words actually say: "I cannot teach you what is in the manual and what you need to learn from educational sources. You need read the previous letters and if this confuses you do your own research. We do not act as a multimedia consultancy firm." It is just saying: 'I am not going to help you any further with this issue; it is not this company's responsibility.' There is no insult. It is not rude.} In Artist3D's latest post in this thread we see: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked a question about a feature in Poser4 and... <<<<<<<<<<<<<< {since this thread is now moved to Complaint and Debate I'll be a little more free with my language} After all this, the fucking cretin still thinks that 'which video compression to choose' is a Poser feature! What a moron. And then of course, we see the pathetic decent into bizarre nationalistic frothing (based on fuck all). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...we here in America speak the English language ,so if it is not to your liking then don't trash it. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< And all I said about his American English spelling was that it is correct! LOL There are many opportunities here to point out that Artist3D is a nasty little fuckwit who's easily damaged pride over his/her profound limitations can lead him/her to displace his/her own failings onto others. But since the thread is moved out of the general Poser forum, and so the danger to the harassed Curious Labs employee is much diminished, to do so would be mere indulgence. Not that I'm above that sort of thing.

{If anyone continues to believe the tech was rude and insulting, just read what the words actually say: "I cannot teach you what is in the manual and what you need to learn from educational sources. You need read the previous letters and if this confuses you do your own research. We do not act as a multimedia consultancy firm." That is what the words actually say!

"Fuckwit"You MUST be a child.The more you ramble PJF,the more YOUR true personality comes through.Calling people "Stupid","Fuckwit","Self Centered","idiot","Moron" and all the other in inappropriate language you have used just shows your true colors or is that colours?You Definitely need a good doctor.I NEVER attacked you personally at all.Maybe I stood up for myself,but you really need help.Just because I am NOT "Mr.Computer"you seem to think that makes you superior for some insane reason.Renderosity is a COMMUNITY where people can exchange ideas,ask questions,and state opinions.It should NOT be a place where mentally unbalanced individuals attack people for stating said opinions,ideas or questions.The fact I am NEW to Poser4 and 3D modeling is NO reason for that tech or anyone else to get mad or pissed off that I had a question on a subject that I am new to.Being that a window pops up in Poser4 asking me to choose a Video Compression Option(A FEATURE in Poser4),and me having problems with the default(WindowsVideo1)that is checked,IS a reasonable question to ask a tech at the company that makes said software.Since posting this thread I have since got an email from the tech explaining things as should have been explained.Which was the right thing to do.I figured out which choice to use,on my own(even though honestly,I don't know why it is best,I would like to understand)I do thank the "Intelligent""ADULT" members of this community for their recommendations.I still don't understand why, when I check "uncompressed" to render the AVI,the video quality gets wacky and looks pixely.Isn't it supposed to be better? The best ones seem to be Cinepak Codec(I guess I am "Stupid",I really don't understand what "codec" means)by Radius with Compression quality set at 100 and also IndeoVideo 5.04 set at 100 also.Those two choices had the best quality.When I check "Uncompressed" the video looks jerky and pixely.I thought uncompressed was best?Anyway,PJF,the fact you also attacked Jarek about his intelligence,typing and use of spelling,etc shows the type of person you are.Since us "cretins" are not at your superior level of Poser and computer knowledge, maybe you can be constructive and practice being a human being as we try to be experts at those subjects as you seem to believe you are.Finally,Mehndi,you made me laugh.Thanks!The fact that you EVER thought you COULD "toss me on my arse"was REALLY funny!I'd like to see you or anyone else try,for that matter.LMAO<----Laughing my "Arse" Off!Also,lets be honest with one another,I am not the first person to have run on sentences in a post.You do it too "mate".LOL.Not that I owe you,or anyone else an explanation,but Yes,I bought Poser4,Bryce4 and Canoma Legally and have all my Manuals(Wait is that Manuel?No,he is a friend of mine!)and serial numbers.I want to thank Ironbear,Storm,Jarek,blud,JAFO,Scarab,and ookami for trying to help me..........Geeze this sounds like an awards ceremony!Anyway,the problem is solved(mine at least)thanks.

No prob, A3D (hope you don't mind the abreviation). I still belive that if all the information needed was in the manual, the writers of after market books would be out of a job. They're not, so the info obviously isn't all there. And... If a program causes a window to pop up on my screen asking me for input, then that's a program feature. And if a companies customer service is lacking, I go find a new company to shop at. Sooner or later the businesses that want to stick around start offering manuals and customer service that keeps people coming back. Or they go under for lack of sales...

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

You are a great person Iron.So smart!:0).I just found this.NOW I see PJF LIVES for this stuff.LOL.This is a post he/she made. 3. Re: Ew, ICK!! EWWW?!!?? by PJF on 10/17 17:01 This is excellent, and how it should have been from the start. Now threads will stay at the top if they continue to be interesting to people, instead of getting lost no matter what. Just a shame it happens when I'm having a private little war with someone in a thread that was otherwise buried and forgotten about. L

I wil pray for you PJF.Please take your meds,it will be alright.Just breath deeply and take the pink pills. 11. Re: Ew, ICK!! EWWW?!!?? by Mehndi on 10/17 21:17 All I know is it is making useless threads dominate when the REAL things most of us are here for are buried in the nonsense of the spampigs. I vote to go back to the old way. Sorry PJF, I know you love to chase ambulances, and this makes it easy, but some of us are here to focus on some serious things. YEA!Mehndi!!!So true!

Still can't find those other emails Artist3D? Damn shame that. And very convenient for you. BTW, this is Complaint and Debate. You act like a fuckwit in here, and you are likely to get called one. You've been the one on the attack from your first post on this, all to protect your own inflated picture of yourself. No doubt to your great satisfaction, you've managed to get the tech into enough trouble that they had to write to you again on this. Arsehole. Ironbear wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And... If a program causes a window to pop up on my screen asking me for input, then that's a program feature. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Absolute and total, utter bollocks. Very sorry to see you taking such an uncharacteristically dim view on this Ironbear, you seem otherwise so intelligent (you've impressed Artist3D - a particularly fine achievement). The 'popping up' may be a 'feature', but the choice to be made is outside the scope of Poser. If you still can't see that, read my analogy above about image formats. Then if you still can't see that, ask yourself if you are not being a fuckwit too...

So PJF anyone that disagrees with you is a fuckwit? Well isnt that nice of you to clear that up!

Time for class, pull out your Poser Manuals children, and turn to page 265. Second column, third paragraph. "For more information about Quicktime and AVI movie compression options, consult your operating system's User Guide." You see, Microsoft and Apple developed the movie formats. Curiouslabs does not nor can it be expected to predict which is best for you. These variables are based on research and understanding of your hardware deficiences, and strengths. How much RAM do you have? That causes frame drop. What is your video card like? That affects size you might wish to render to. What speed is your CPU? All in all, when one develops something such as Poser, or Photoshop, or Paintshop Pro even, all of those export plugins, they come in handy dandy ready to use code libraries, distributed by Microsoft, Adobe, Apple, etc. They own that technology. Curiouslabs did not invent it, it merely chose to allow export to it. To get more information is a process of trial and error, and research, and even contacting Microsoft for AVI, though if you believe your friendly tech at Curious was a rude wanker, wait till you pay 3.00 a minute to sit on hold for 45 minutes, then basically be told to buggar off by one of the Microsoft techs.

Don't be an arse just for the sake of it, Storm. People who believe erroneous bullshit after being told otherwise are fuckwits. Whether they happen to disagree with me or not is irrelevant. As Mehndi has just said with far more politeness than I am able to muster at the moment (and far more than some people here deserve after all this): READ THE FUCKING MANUAL If you still think Artist3D was asking about a Poser feature, then guess what that makes you.

Calling people names and talking to them as if they are children. Telling people what they should think and what to do. You truely are something else! I'd rather be an arse and fuckwit anyday then to be like you PJF!

I based my my comments and input based on two things: One: I deal with customer service and tech support on a regular basis from a client service provider point of view. If I find the reply's to my question unintelligble, or the information inadequate to solve the problem, I ask again. And again if needs be. If I don't get adequate support or service, I go elsewhere, and I reccommend someone elses products to my clients. Two: (And nothing that I've read here demonstrates otherwise) All of the details on the/any programs operation is not contained in the manuals. Poser, bryce or any other app manual. If it were, our forums wouldn't have nearly as many questions posted to them. After market books wouldn't nned to be written, except possibly to make a quick buck for the authors. A3D's question may fall in the category of one that was explained in detail in the manual. If not, or if he simply couldn't find it, he has the right to ask the question. And complain if he wasn't satisfied with the response. Since the question didn't generate an answer of "Oh, look on page such and such..." it may not have been. I don't do any animations with the program, so I haven't bothered with the avi export or looking for pertinent manual sections until I need to research it. When I do need to research it, I'll do so in every resource I can find before asking a tech about it. That said, I do see where you're coming from and it does read as a judgement call on the techs part. You're right on the image format analogy. That was probably a question best asked first here in the poser forum. I'm sure some poser animation wizz could have given a detailed response in short order. On the other, in order to ask myself that, I'd first have to be impressed with you, and secondly to actually care about your opinion on my intelligence... neither applies.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Storm wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd rather be an arse and fuckwit anyday then to be like you PJF! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< You're not like me, so congratulations upon fulfilling your desire. Ironbear wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other, in order to ask myself that, I'd first have to be impressed with you... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Good grief, if you have to be impressed with me before the fucking obvious occurs to you, you need to change the basis upon which you are examining the world.

Thank you PJF for the congrats

Go to your rooms, all of you! Scarab <-"dont make me come up there!"

Um... so nice to see everyone playing so nicely with each other (yes, I do stop here from time to time... you're not completely free of me... :oP ) First off, I think A3D (apologize for the shorthand) raises a question to the practice of Customer Service... though, I think this situation would've been better brought to the attention of Curious Labs rather than openly targeted on any forum... Though there is nothing wrong with stating that there is an issue, which Curious Labs SHOULD look into, it should be directed in a form or fashion where Curious Labs can reply to it and/or take action because of it... I don't see that happening here... ...instead, what I DO see, is people "bashing" each other over this and inciting a "name calling" match... like kids on a playground... so, my suggestion at bringing this thread to Curious Lab's attention to answer or reply to it is OUT OF THE QUESTION...!! So this is my solution, if anyone cares to hear it. A3D, I think that you should contact the Customer Service Dept at Curious Labs and inform them of the response that you were given, be open to let the company take ANY action that they feel may be necessary to your situation... I will also, contact Curious Labs and make a mention of this for you, and I think they will be more than receptive to take care of your trouble in this matter... In the meantime, I would think it best, if some of the others here (not going to point fingers here) just focus their energies somewhere other than "bashing" people and find a calm center of peace for themselves... Just my thoughts.. Jack

PS... Tim and RCook, please forgive me if I have stepped on either of your toes by posting to this message and "acting" as some kind of moderator... it is not my intention to create any sort of "waves" with either of you... Jack

Jack D. Kammerer, the Poser community opportunist, rides in. I'll bet you money that Curious Labs already know about this thread. It had actually usefully died of its own accord, and you could have easily taken any action you feel your self appointed position in the Poser community entitles you to take, without adding any comment here at all. A bit of recruiting, perhaps? Maybe Artist3D will be so impressed he heads off to 3D Commune. A good result all round, I'd say. I don't have any special route to Steve Cooper beyond being a paying Poser user, but I do know from direct experience on the Poser mailing list that he has in the past taken a similar abrupt line to people pursuing matters not in the remit of Poser. The 'we do not act as a multimedia consultancy firm' line could have come from his own keyboard. I hope he remembers that when deciding what action to take. In fact, I shall write to him myself to remind him. As one of 'the others here', I have no regrets at my 'bashing', and you can point your fingers at me all you like. Maybe you'd care to check back a few threads and see what fine 'playground' contributions you making around here, before you assume the role of the soothing saint. I am usually willing to patiently go to great pains to help people who aren't especially bright understand things, but when someone's chicken shit, pig ignorant pride potentially puts a guy's job at risk for no good reason at all, then I'll spew forth any venom I see fit (especially after the thread is moved into this crazy forum). Hey, if you don't like it, you could always set up your own forum where your suggestions and 'solutions' might carry more significance than that of any other Jack about town.

Hmmmm....I wonder if PJF was in the "wire mesh" monkey mother group during those early behavioural experiments? Scarab

PJF Thank you very much for sharing your usual insightful opinion and tiring diatribe, if there is anything good that can be said about you, it would be your ability to remain consistant in your posts and your belief that your opinions actually matter to anyone but yourself. :o) So, please, excuse me if I don't take your opinion to seriously... or take offense to the fact that I don't find it, nor you, very useful in this regard. :o) Jack

At least my opinion is only my own, and only carries the weight of one single Poser user - as it should be. Because of your self appointed position in the Poser community, some folk are unfortunately liable to give your views far more attention than they merit. At least I actually use Poser, unlike some I could mention.

::chuckles:: Your so cute!! Jack

Hey, thanks! Though I could use a shave.

On the whole though....wouldnt we all rather be fishing? "The Scarab Wildlife Show"

Only if you promise we won't catch any, Scarab. Kate <--- hates cleaning and gutting fish

Hey....if youre with me I absolutely PROMISE no fish will be caught!....I caught one once and it almost scared me to death!... Scarab<-I just like drinking beer and drowning worms.....

LOL, I got the distinct impression Jack was fishing. And all he hooked was this stubborn old bit of pond life. :-D

Pssst...Scarab...something my sainted Grandmother taught me... (looks around to make sure nobody else is listening) Don't even put a hook on the line. That way you can spend the entire day goofing off, drinking beer and looking like you're actually doing something productive without the hassle of dealing with the results of productivity. Kate (who had a real smart gramma)

PJ see that is what I like about you so much, you are able to compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know... even into a wrong idea! You are just TOO funny!! :o) Jack

Hot dang! People are liking me all over and I ain't even trying! Hey, it's my birthday soon, don't forget now Jack. Tell you what, for my present you can generate some of your own wit instead of using tired clich like this "compress the most words into the smallest idea" bullshit I've heard on afternoon TV soap operas. That'll definitely be a nice surprise. But you know Jack; I'm worried about you. We both know you're a master at milking situations for your own advantage while fooling people into thinking you're the helpful hero, but now it seems like you've taken to milking situations for your own advantage while fooling yourself into think you're the helpful hero. Dash it; with these delusions you're suffering, I guess it could mean you don't like me after all. Awe, no pressie from Jack this year.

Me thinks you watch too many of them soap operas that you mention, PJ... of course, seeing how you like to hear yourself talk and your "dramas", I'm not to surprised... And of course I could send you a present... but to do that, I would have to have your address... grin Jack

Not all gifts have to be material, Jack. Though considering the way you operate, it's not surprising you think that way. I've seen what happened to some folk who gave you their real world contact details, so I'll pass on giving you my address. Besides which, you'd be bound to eventually try and sell it. 'Read my lips - no selling of the membership database' 'Get your membership database here! Three for a tenner.' Who needs soap operas when there's the drama of what you've done to the Poser community to watch?

As always you've asserted your opinion to that situation based on incorrect information... however, this is not surprising, considering your closeminded behaviour and lack of desire to change your opinion about anything, since you like to think that you are always right and you do this even with smaller situations. So then, please understand, I am not even going to make an attempt to set your incorrect, or misaligned views, right. I say this on the basis that I don't wish to waste my time with someone, when I could be using that time for others who actually have something something constructive to give to the Community at large, rather than a little angry man who only spits venom to compensate for the depressing world in which he lives in. With that said, I don't think there is anymore need to be focusing on this thread, since I did what I came here to do, which was try and help 3dA... that done, this thread no longer needs to become... well, any longer. Jack

{With that said, I don't think there is anymore need to be focusing on this thread, since I did what I came here to do, which was try and help 3dA... that done, this thread no longer needs to become... well, any longer.} Time for it to become ... threadbare?

Ooh, hush now everybody, Jack's finished contributing so the thread needn't be added to. Asserting my opinion based on incorrect information, eh? Well, that information was supplied by Jack D. Kammerer, so any queries about its voracity should be pointed in that direction. In his message (posted elsewhere) to explain his departure from administrative duties on these forums, Jack said that although he had originally claimed he wouldn't ever sell the database, he subsequently thought that selling it to Zygote and Curious Labs was in the best interests of the community. How very magnanimous, to go back on his word for the 'greater good'. Not so magnanimous was bringing the sale to a grinding halt once he realised he wasn't going to get a big enough slice of the financial pie. So much for the greater good. Yeah, very opportune time to depart Jack, just when it got to the nitty gritty. Of course, you're only going so that you can generously bestow your time upon others for the greater benefit of... Jack D. Kammerer, the Poser community opportunist, rides out.

{so any queries about its voracity should be pointed in that direction.} Nope. Queries about it's VERACITY should be directed to Jack. Its chef should get all queries about it's VORACITY... { Jack said that although he had originally claimed he wouldn't ever sell the database, he subsequently thought that selling it to Zygote and Curious Labs was in the best interests of the community. } The way I read it, Jack found out that the database WAS being sold, and demanded either they don't do that OR give him a cut for it. If I understand what happened EdgeNet balked at first, then raised the price, probably to give him his cut; Zygote/CL saw the new price and essentially said "F that..." I COULD be wrong, but that's how it looked to me. {Jack D. Kammerer, the Poser community opportunist, rides out. } Excuse me, but how many in this communite are NOT opportunists? It's being opportunistic to haunt the forums looking or waiting for props, textures, etc. that you need or want to surface. It's opportunistic to post on topics you view are relevant. It's opportunistic to create, maintain and administer a website that could possibly bring in a cash-flow. EdgeNet is opportunistic. Dark Souls, Inc. is opportunistic. 90+% of the people who post here are opportunistic. Let he who is without sin cast the first verbal stone.

My impression is that Jack and Ed and numerous others did a hell of a lot of work, for which they to date have received very little (if any) compensation. Perhaps I could be wrong and they have been rolling in the lap of luxury for the last year or so, but I don't think so. I dont know (and neither does anyone else but them and Tim Choate) what ultimately went down, but their (Jeff and Ed's) actions and works over the last year speak well of them. I have little patience with those who attach a permanent sneer to their face and think that ongoing cynicism makes them "cool". Scarab <-tried to sneer once....it hurt.....

The thing I don't understand is why so many people seem to think there HAS to be a Villain and a Hero in this - and people seem split as to which part the two parties played. They (DSI, EdgeNet) are business run by gamblers and businessmen (quite often the same thing) who, through ambition and POSSIBLY (probably?) greed had a falling out. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that we were all taken for a ride (possibly in more ways than one... :-D) is incidental...

"Keep your arms and legs inside the car at all times......" Scarab

Its chef should get all queries about it's VORACITY... <<<<<<<<<< LOL. The 'e's and 'o's in alphabet soup always get stuck in my teeth. Thank you very much for correcting my error. Forgive me if I don't take the time to go through your posts with a fine, er, toothpick. ;-) I think you are wrong about how it went down, CharlieBrown. I can only suggest you read the DSI crew's various statements carefully. I've seen nothing to suggest that DSI were reluctant parties. In fact, I got the impression they were extremely bloody keen parties. Peregrinator pretty much sums up above why I feel the way I do about DSI, and that feeling is why I have 'attached a permanent sneer to my face' over the issue. My ongoing cynicism about DSI is nothing to do with attempting to be 'cool', it's just accurate comprehension. But it's not just the pretend virtue, double standards and hypocrisy of DSI's actions in this that irritates me, it's their commercial mindset being applied to inappropriate things. Don't get me wrong, I am seriously in favour of commercial enterprise; people making money out of their creative efforts is top notch activity in my book. It's a different thing to take over and run an already established mutual self help community on that basis, though (of course, EdgeNet are as guilty as DSI in this respect, and I have never shyed away from saying so. The main difference with EdgeNet is they don't pretend to be doing anything different). I have worked hard and devoted a lot of time and energy in moderating and administrating on a forum setup, and I did it to put something back into the community from which I benefitted. The idea of doing it for money simply didn't enter into it. I don't think Jack's and Ed's actions speak well of them at all. They were looking for a community to make money out of, and they did what they could to do so. It was their choice to operate commercially, and I have no more reason to be grateful to them than I have to the manufacturer of this monitor I'm looking at. There are so many people who do so much for the Poser community just because there is a community and they are a part of it, that I find it outrageous that people like Jack and Ed gain the status of virtual saints. Anything positive that might say about people's tendency toward personal loyalty is more than offset by the negatives about people's tendency toward gullibility. Anyway, I don't particularly want to go through all this again, so if anyone is remotely interested in what I have had to say on this (...crickets, ...tumbleweeds, etc) , take a look at TRenderforums on 'egroups'. Now that DSI have started their own online community, from as scratch as they can under the circumstances, I genuinely wish them luck in their commercial endeavour. There are a few reasons I bothered having a go at Jack when he came on this thread. I thought he was being a pompous, snotty git. I thought he was just further damaging an already fractured situation. I thought he was doing so for opportunistic reasons. He could have just dropped a line to Curious Labs on Artist3D's bahalf, he could have just left the suggestion that Artist3D contact Curious Labs. But no, he had to play the high and mighty hero and try and score some points. Since this thread made me very angry from the start (the only one here to do so) my reaction was pretty inevitable. And this is Complaint and Debate, the looney forum, so if anyone doesn't appreciate my taking a pot shot, then it's tough bloody titty on you. I think the forum would best be deleted, but while it's here, I'll be getting stuck in with everyone else.

{I think you are wrong about how it went down, CharlieBrown. I can only suggest you read the DSI crew's various statements carefully. I've seen nothing to suggest that DSI were reluctant parties. In fact, I got the impression they were extremely bloody keen parties.} I never said they were reluctant, per se. Just that they felt THEY owned the database and that either it should remain their (exclusive) property OR they should get a cut from the sales. Maybe it didn't come out that way, but that's what I've believed since the second time I read Jack's letter. {Forgive me if I don't take the time to go through your posts with a fine, er, toothpick. ;-)} Feel free. I'm as blunder-prone as anyone, and it's sometimes amusing to be corrected... Sometimes... ;-) {It's a different thing to take over and run an already established mutual self help community on that basis, though (of course, EdgeNet are as guilty as DSI in this respect, and I have never shyed away from saying so. The main difference with EdgeNet is they don't pretend to be doing anything different).} I was under the impression that Jack and Ed were operating this for the community, in the hopes of getting some money back out of it EVENTUALLY. It was always in their minds, but never at the forefront until the DSI/Edgenet/Curious Labs/Zygote deal began, then it took over... And I suspect a similar commercial mindset takeover is what fractured the site a year ago, BTW. In fact, I think slipping INTO that mindset so frightened Willow that she does everything she can (often going too far, IMO!) to keep commercial elements off of "her" site to this day... {There are so many people who do so much for the Poser community just because there is a community and they are a part of it, that I find it outrageous that people like Jack and Ed gain the status of virtual saints.} You won't get any argument out of me there - Heck, even Jack and Ed admit that they are far from saints! {There are a few reasons I bothered having a go at Jack when he came on this thread. I thought he was being a pompous, snotty git. } I can see how you get that impression; I don't think it was intended, but I can see it. {And this is Complaint and Debate, the looney forum, so if anyone doesn't appreciate my taking a pot shot, then it's tough bloody titty on you. I think the forum would best be deleted, but while it's here, I'll be getting stuck in with everyone else. } That's the spirit!!

I was under the impression that Jack and Ed were operating this for the community, in the hopes of getting some money back out of it EVENTUALLY. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I've followed the thing fairly carefully from the beginning, and know that Jack and Ed formed the idea for a profit making online place before they took on the Renderosity (what was the original PFO) administration. DSI was formed before Renderosity, I believe. By taking over what was already here, they were saved the hard work of starting from scratch. What was already here was set up as a mutual self help group, not a business. (It was also a bit of a personality empire, I remember getting 'the Willow treatment' one time back then - see, everybody hates me ;-). I've no doubt about the EVENTUALLY sentiment as regards DSI, and I've no doubt about the hard work and commitment they put in. But it was hard work and commitment in the form of the early years of most businesses. In the final analysis they were doing it for themselves, not for the community. You know it's funny, but Renderosity has ended up kind of being the only 'independant' Poser online place. Everybody here who knows anything knows that EdgeNet is in it for profit, and will 'sell them' for the right price. The community here is sort operating for itself below that level. I don't think there is any kind of ridiculous personality following as at the other places. In my opinion, now is exactly the right time for Zygote/Curious Labs to buy the place. Unfortunately, it looks like they might have swallowed the sainthood bullshit too, so the best chance for the Poser community to be housed in the correct place (especially if it were Curious Labs) is lost. That pisses me off too.

Under the circumstances, I thing being pissed off is about as healthy a thing as one could hope for.

I don't know....continual pissing is one of the early signs of diabetes...... Scarab

Er...no. It's an advanced sign of diabetes onset due to a shift in nephronic concentration gradient because of insufficient glucose reuptake by somatic cells. Don't sweat it. It's a common mistake. ;-)

{I don't think there is any kind of ridiculous personality following as at the other places.} That's an interesting point - we haven't really SEEN any EdgeNet personality... :-) {In my opinion, now is exactly the right time for Zygote/Curious Labs to buy the place.} Interesting. Probably a thought worth pursuing... {Unfortunately, it looks like they might have swallowed the sainthood bullshit too,} I doubt that - the community has shown itself to be a powderkeg. I suspect they're just waiting around to see if it blows up again. If it doesn't they'll probably start talking to all three major sites and do what they feel is best from a CORPORATE point of view. Hopefully that will be good for the community as well...

"That's an interesting point - we haven't really SEEN any EdgeNet personality... :-)" Hey! I resent that CB! :-) There is something very different in the way EdgeNet is trying to run this community compared to how it was run in the past. We didn't come swooping in and try to "lead" the community in any specific direction. So that's why you may not have seen any "personality". We're trying to let the members guide the direction of this community. That's why we want feedback, comments, complaints, whatever. Good or bad. If it's good, we'll do more of it. If it's bad, we'll change it. We don't claim to know what best for you and shackle you into doing it our way, or kicking your butt to the curb.

{There is something very different in the way EdgeNet is trying to run this community compared to how it was run in the past. We didn't come swooping in and try to "lead" the community in any specific direction. So that's why you may not have seen any "personality".} That's kind of what I meant, but I have a reputation for obnoxiousness to uphold and didn't want to gush... ;-)

The word you all are searching for in terms of "personality" and "methodology" is NORMAL. It will take some getting used to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I doubt that - the community has shown itself to be a powderkeg. I suspect they're just waiting around to see if it blows up again. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< And try to keep a keen eye for those who come bearing matches.

::hides the matchbook, slides the lighter fluid under the DJ's table, whistles non-chanlantly:: What you lookin at?

Heh, heh, heh. I hardly had you in mind when I said that...or PJF, for that matter. C'mon... you KNOW what I mean..... ;-)

{C'mon... you KNOW what I mean.....} Well.... yeah... but I AM a pyromaniac...

rcook wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is something very different in the way EdgeNet is trying to run this community compared to how it was run in the past. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< To be accurate Russell, since the days of taking over from the PFO crew, EdgeNet has always run this site, even if indirectly. I've no doubt a lot was left to DSI, but no way do I beleive major policy was enacted without EdgeNet's go ahead. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If it's good, we'll do more of it. If it's bad, we'll change it. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Up to a point. Commercial aspects like the store and advertising aren't going to disappear just because the membership object. (note: I'm not saying the membership necessarily do object to these things). It is good to see a responsive management, as well as the tweaking that has been undertaken to oil the wheels. It is interesting and eye-opening that the day to day membership activities are functioning perfectly well without people allegedly going without food and sleep. Is there anyone working themselves 'into an early grave' now? What was that all about?

"It's worse than that.....it's DEAD, Jim....." Chief Medical Scarab

It's dead? How many posts in the last 24 hours? Doctor, heal thyself.

Wishful thinking on my part. Scarab