Attached Link: http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel2/Products/Home&pid=1047022702299

Hello! Bryce has recently been acquired by DAZ Productions, global specialists in the creation of 3D digital content (www.daz3d.com). Bryce is an exceptional product and we feel confident that DAZ is the ideal company to carry it forward. Corel recognizes that Bryce inspires considerable passion and loyalty within the design community. That's why Corel carefully considered a number of factors before making the decision to sell Bryce to DAZ. Our chief concern was to make sure we found a partner who would protect your investments by continuing to innovate, deliver new releases of the product and provide ongoing customer support. With a proven track record in the 3D design community and a commitment to release new versions of Bryce on both the Macintosh and Windows platform, DAZ promises to create a bright future for Bryce and its customers. If you have questions, would like further information, or require Bryce customer support, please visit bryce.daz3d.com or contact DAZ directly via telephone or e-mail (toll-free in the US at 1-800-267-5170, internationally at +011-80-495-1777, or e-mail sales@daz3d.com). On behalf of Corel, I want to thank you for your longstanding loyalty and continued support of Bryce. Sincerely, Amish Mehta Corel CEO

Attached Link: http://bryce.daz3d.com/

Check out the new DAZ|Bryce. Notice again, they talk about making Bryce compatible with DAZ content, *not* Poser content.

"... When correctly combined, DAZ|Studio, DAZ|Bryce, DAZ|Mimic, and innovative third-party plugins will synergize to form a powerful suite of products capable of creating the complete 3D virtuality. ..." There will be no Poser compatibility. Bryce is now a D|S toolset. I'm buyin' Vue, it looks like...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Yeah, that's how I read it, too. As I posted over in the DAZ forums, it sounds to me like Poser users are being left out in the cold.

"Yeah, that's how I read it, too. As I posted over in the DAZ forums, it sounds to me like Poser users are being left out in the cold." Of course. Hasn't that been the case since P5?

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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As they are fond of noting: DAZ is going after a MUCH larger market than Poser users. While we matter, the eyes are focused on the what if, not the what is. There is absolute belief in this what if. There has to be. Nothing great came from not taking great risks. Unless they dangle a carrot I can reach, and do it soon, I'm going to turn very Anti-DAZ. Which is sad.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

"sounds to me like Poser users are being left out in the cold" It might be too early for paranoia of such things. DAZ is far from a stupid company and they know they are built from a poser base. So there is no need to assume that they they wont continue to support poser in their content creation. It only makes sense that on an advertising page (which that is) that they would sell the compatability of their own products. What company wouldnt do that? Lets give them a chance to see how they handle this before mountains are made out of mole hills (which is so often done in poser communities :) ) LOL I think it is a good expansion for them, and if they can make content compatible..then it will benefit the community as well by making more people aware of the poser products and its potential. Rawn

And this is the announcement that is going to change the shape of the future? These guys need to get a grip on reality. First it was comparing themselves to God for "creating" Michael (not Vickie or Steph; they're just girls, y'know?). Then it was heralding D|S as the "Genesis of 3D" (Get it? Nudge nudge). Now because they own a product that, much as I love it, is not even last year's news anymore, the future is different. Well, I guess. If you believe the beat of a butterfly's wing causes earthquakes. And it does, you know, grasshopper. Rilly. Their future. They're welcome to it. I grew weary of their Disney World theatrics and used car salesmanship (That's not a guarantee on that Yugo; it's a promise!!) a long time ago. Mick

Well, at least DAZ is considering moving character content into the future rather than letting its corpse rot on the sidewalk and languish in the basking sunlight of computer and 3D advancement (and they've always backed up their intent). Other than micropolygon displacement, what has Poser 5 really offered that is so much better than Poser 4, Poser 3? And how has Poser competed with the rest of the 3D CG industry? Oh, that's right, they haven't. Since Poser 4 ProPack, Lightwave has gone up two versions, Maya three, 3DSMax three, Cinema two, Vue one and Pro, all adding more and more power to a stable base (for the most part). And still no real plugins for the other apps yet. Unless the new Japanese owner of Poser has an amazing idea up their sleeve to make Poser modern, Poser just ain't gonna do it for real character work anymore. I have a 2x2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, 533MHz bus system with more than 1/2 TeraByte (yes, your read that correctly) of storage and Poser stills chugs along at a snail's pace (esp. Poser 5), still has its flakiness, and still couldn't do a rudimentary animation with several figures without several weeks to spare. Have you seen LOTR, Star Wars, et al lately? That's the future of character animation... If my business depended on Poser, I wouldn't be in business. When it did depend on Poser content (Daz's Eagle and Eagle motions), I used C4D to do the animation work in reasonable time periods and professional rendering levels (you know, real lights, HDRI, realtime previews, and no quirky animation cycles). Sorry, I'll place my bets on DAZ. Ante up to the future. Kuroyume

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Well, you have to expect some hype with these corporate announcements. ;-)

But if they were planning to support Poser, I would think they'd say so. Vue isn't shy about touting Poser compatibility on their product page.

Actually, distancing themselves from Poser might be a good plan. (For them, not us.) We all know that "real" CGI artists look down on us Poser users. They may want to position D|S with the "real" CGI programs, not with Poser. Most of the existing Bryce base would probably prefer that.

Ahem, DAZ owes it's existance to Poser. DAZ provides Poser content. Now they've added DAZ Studio, which is still in beta, and they've bought Bryce. It's stupid to sever ties to Poser, since Poser has brought them all this income for all these years. Of course I believe they never should have distanced themselves from Curious Labs and Poser 5 either, but they did.

lol "Other than micropolygon displacement, what has Poser 5 really offered that is so much better than Poser 4, Poser 3?" Hmmm. An advanced Materials editor, dynamic cloth simulations, strand based hair, IBL (oh yeah, it's in there), limited atmospherics... But that's not the point. And Poser users are NOT being left out in the cold. Nor do I expect them to be -- DAZ will continue to produce Poser content well into the future. That content will not, however, take advantage of the features of competing programs. That content will not be forward thinking in relation to those competing programs. Kuroyume is correct -- if this were a horse race I'd bet on DAZ. It might be a gimp horse with shoddy legs, but it's still the best game in town (even if the next version won't have to deal with limitations in a "backwards" program). It's not a horse race, however. Nor is it a poker game. However, it is Business. And DAZ's goal is to increase the number of users of it's products. By whatever means necessary. That is the goal of any business. If you aren't cutthroat about it, then don't get into it. My issue is that I believe in community spirit. Lead as much as you wish to. Innovate and acquire and grow. But remember from whence it is you came. DAZ is not ignoring the whiny, bitchy, malcontent group of change resistant and hyper critical Poser users. Probably should, actually, but they aren't. They just aren't actively developing forward with it. As noted earlier -- that is NOT what they intend to do. Not now, not ever. They are pushing for something that does need to be done. It's painful, but necessary. I just don't like the way they are doing it.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Just wondering - did DAZ hire any additional development staff, maybe people from the original Bryce team? Buying an application is one thing, but maintaining and further development take up quite some extra resources. Do they have the staff to work on Mimic, Studio and Bryce?

All that, and I just said it elsewhere in one sentence, lol: I'm upset because DAZ is not being socially responsible. This is purely a judgement call, based on my own peculiar (and un-sane) belief system. So it's a personal problem. I'll deal with it, and move along now...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

I might be missing something here ... but I don't see anywhere on the DAZ Bryce page that it will not support Poser content ... it does say: "DAZ is currently developing technology that will provide improved import capability of existing DAZ content into Bryce. This development will take place in phases until a seamless integration is achieved. Continued support for both MAC and PC platforms is planned, as well as new features and benefits." Existing DAZ content is in OBJ format, so that it is compatible with both Poser AND DAZ|Studio.

heh -- I noted that same question in a different thread, Stewer. I also noted that this acquisition gives DAZ the ability to use the same interface mechanism that Poser has -- for any of their products...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

If they were going to support Poser content, I would think they'd say "Poser content." But they don't. They say "DAZ content." Bryan's phrasing was exactly the same: "BTW, wouldn't it be cool if Bryce could import all your DAZ content?"

To me, this means Bryce will import D|S content - which is not compatible with Poser.

I also noted that this acquisition gives DAZ the ability to use the same interface mechanism that Poser has -- for any of their products... What do you mean by mechanism? The MetaCreations look or the internal code?

the whole Kai Krause interface, hon.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Which isn't implemented as nicely in Bryce as in Poser, IMHO.

But if D|S has the familiar Poser interface, that might help lure Poser users to jump ship.

Me, I'm not wild about the Poser interface. I found it very difficult to learn my way around, though of course I'm used to it now. I found Vue much more intuitive.

And which, IIRC, rbtwhiz thoroughly detests. (Along with several other folks who sorta feel it's too hand holding) Then again, he did foist that D|S version on us. So much for an artist's tool having an artistic look. I think I'll stick with kai's...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

I think the poser interface is a lot easier to use than D|S...

Not sure how liberal or restricting the whole interface licensing stuff goes...and well, just using the same look doesn't make a good UI. You need some good UI designers/engineers that build a UI concept that makes sense. (as far as I know, Kyle Maxwell did the Poser UI - didn't see any mention of Kai Krause in the Poser source code)

Part of it is "what you're used to". Vue is easier to pick up initially because it's more conventional. I remember the first time I tried to use Bryce or Poser I got totally lost very quickly. When you learn how to exploit the Bryce interface to best advantage it's a pleasure to use. For me, Poser is a tool for getting figures into Bryce. I haven't tried D|S yet, but as long as one can pose figures conform and conform clothing, and use Vicky, Mike, Posette etc, to me it will still be Poser content even if they want to call it Daz content. Presumably D|S can read cr2s or pz3s?

"So much for an artist's tool having an artistic look." "Never let an engineer design anything" - said my instructor in my UI design class in my first year of C.S. studies...

All I want is "Poser" import. I had Bryce3 a few years back and never had much success using it with my Poser files, but with Vue4, I have been quite satisfied. I can not, for the life of me, get the lighting "right" in Poser, so I choose to create a PZ3 and import it into a scene. Actually, I usually build the scene around them and not having to deal with loading the texture maps and what-ever else has been a major plus for me. I do all my posing, my adding clothing and hair, etc.etc. in Poser and then import them into Vue4 as a single "PZ3" file. For me Poser will not die anytime soon, I depend on it to give me the characters I want to use for a particular scene. I do hope that Daz will not abandon it's support to it in favor of "Bryce" content.

Kyle developed it from the common base that Kai Krouse set up for the whole metacreations line. Kai was, well, somewhat out there, lol Kyle's also the guy who really deserves the credit for the theory behind it -- and he did a good job. Execution wasn't always there, but then, he designed it for one purpose, and it's been shifted to another. And you're right -- it's the concept that's the key. So, as noted elsewhere by the Venerable L_D, I may be way off. I'd forgotten how Lightwave centric DAZ is. They may very well scrap the current interface entirely and shift to a lightwave inspired version. Now won't that thrill folks?

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Presumably D|S can read cr2s or pz3s?

one would like to presume that, but, well, not too well unless it's one created by DAZ so far... ... and that will change of course. no. Really. IT will. They want it to import stuff. They are just having a hard time witht he conversion from the poser bones to a weight mapping thing. Doesn't want to work too well. also, parented stuff likes to fly off in all directions.

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 10:31

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Hey, at least Bryce is alive now.

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So now I only need to figure out what all that buzz is about - I never used Bryce in my whole life, and so far, I couldn't figure out why people are so keen on rendering their Poser figures in it.

Very true -- and it's been a long, long time for it. Bryce is alive. Good cause for celebration there. of cours, now DAZ gets to be on the recieving end for taking a program that's languished and trying to add new features to it, lol... my my, how times have changed....

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Does that mean CL will now start selling the millenium rock for Brcye? g

Stewer, it goes back. Waaayyy back. All the way to metacreations before the break up. The often stated plan way back then was to make all the core applications (Bryce, Poser, Raydream/Carrara, and Canoma) totally interchangeable. You would use poser to set up the figures, bryce to set up the scene, raydream to make all the cool parts for it, and carrara or Bryce to render. They were supposed to be a team of applications -- a suite like the Office programs that worked together back and forth without much issue. They were designed for that task, and the "next step" since at the time they had achieved pretty much the best they could was to integrate them all. Then the break up hit. The dream has long been that they would somehow be merged together again, despite the odds and the different companies. It's kinda sad that one of the coolest people to ever deal with the joint use of Poser and Bryce died before seeing this announcement. no, not kinda...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

The Millenium Rock, the Millenium Pond, the Millenium Oak (morphable into every tree species, including Bonsai versions), and coming soon, The Millenium Highway!

Why do I suddenly see a render in my immediate future....

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

"Stewer, it goes back. Waaayyy back. All the way to metacreations before the break up."

Ah, I see. All the stuff I know only from history books and grampa's stories... I touched Poser for the first time just after ProPack was out, so my P4 box doesn't even have the fancy MetaCreations logo (but I still have a notepad with that logo!) - or the free version of Painter 3D :( Message edited on: 06/23/2004 10:48

yeah -- that was one of the coolest things... Ah well... Real life beckons, and then it's time for me to see what further harm I can do in the world of design....

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Geeze, I hope they do something good with Bryce. I used Bryce 4 for about a year then found Vue 4. Inside a week, I could do things in Vue I could never do in Bryce. It's just too much of a pain to use.

That said, I'd bet on DAZ also. IMO, the people who left Poser users out in the cold was CL when they didn't advance Poser. How long did they think we could keep using a program written in the 90's? And DAZ, being a forward-thinking company, must have realized that too. They couldn't base their future soley on a dinosaur of a program. The have to do something to move adead or they'd eventually die, just like Poser will if something isn't done.

Also--DAZ makes Poser content. Hence, DAZ content = Poser content.

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 11:13

oh great .. I'm gonna haveta update my classes :P well if DAZ can keep Bryce alive AND finally make poser content easy to use in it that would be dandy. I don't think DAZ is silly enough to turn a blind eye to the mass of Poser users out there, so in all likelihood they'll make sure both DS and Poser content is usable. Ind you, DAZ has done some very silly things before, so we shall see. And DAZ? hire JonathanAllen, Tony Lynch and Frogdot for new Bryce content please? grin Lyrra

CL has a new owner now, and they seem serious about advancing Poser. I don't know if they'll really get Poser 6 out by the of the year, but I think they will get it out. And I'm also pretty sure DAZ won't support it. If they're not supporting Poser 5, why would they support Poser 6?

And DAZ content is not necessarily Poser content. D|S files cannot be read by Poser.

Poser 6 will not be out this year. That's not fact. It's estimation based on current efforts. It will be out next year, and there will most likely be improved support for Vue (whom e-frontier invested very heavily in) and added support for Shade. oh, and all those niggly little stability things will be fixed. I'll second Lyrra's nominations. waves at jackson

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

So basically, I'm going to have to decide if I want to go with Shade, Vue, and Poser, or with DAZ, D|S, and Bryce. I suppose competition is a good thing. I'm just afraid I'll end up having picked Betamax in a VHS world.

hey! Betamax rocks! or, err, um, it did. once. Shortly before the lower cost, lower quality, more widely adopted VHS took over the world. Me, I'll use both.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Good luck trying to get parts and tapes for Beta. Even Japan doesn't use it anymore.

I used to post to a few video newsgroups and message board whenever I had Beta tapes to give away. At first, they'd be all gone by the end of the day. Now, weeks or months go by before anyone shows any interest.

oh man -- did I get too vague in my parallels? rats... I switched over to DVD anyway. ;)

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

There is a new reality in play: There are more Bryce users than Poser users (could be wrong, prolly not...) this changes the dynamics considerably. Love 'em or hate 'em, DAZ did a smart thing (and this is coming from a guy who prefers Vue over B5...) So what does this mean for Poserdom at large? Poser is getting absorbed into Shade, while D|S will get absorbed into a suite that seamlessly moves from D|S to Bryce to ...? Good question. I can say one thing, though - I enjoyed watching the DAZ-hating brats among us (and you know who you are) going into apoplexy...(evil grin). /P

NEWS FLASH!! DAZ has decided to sell all "Poser" content. Yup that's right, DAZ has realized that to spread one's self too thin will only result in shabby product and poor support so to remedy this problem DAZ has decided to get out of "Poser" all together and sell all it's "Poser" content and focus now only on D|S/Bryce/MIMIC. DAZ will be transferring all existing "Poser" content to the new Mega Poser Content manufacture: RunTimeDNA! Yup that's right, all cutting edge "Poser" content will now be handled by skilled craftsmen (and women) like Syyd, Colm, Traveler, Judith & Chris, John Malis, Lady Little Fox, Maveris, Xurge, Sharkey, Dave71, Nikita Creed, Secretheart, Stacey_73, LadyElf, Elec. Fashions, Visual Silence, and Kalypso! The Platinum Club will now be known as the Props Club where EVERY Monday will be Christmas for all it's members!! And to kick off this new Poser era RunTimeDNA will be releasing a Baby Vampire to add to it's Beast Hunter series! YIPEEEEE! ------------------ Disclaimer: all above details is purely fictional speculation and do not reflect the views of RDNA or any of it's staff. But hey, one can dream can't they?? But a baby vampire would be really cool, eh?!?

Hmm. I wonder how many of us won't buy either product simply because the combination duplicates apps we already have. I don't see a compelling reason to buy either at the moment. Time will tell, I guess.

The purchase of some new technology is a good idea for Daz, and gaining another seriously loyal fan base (the Bryce users) is not going to hurt any. The issue is, can they put in the resources needed to bring Bryce up to a modern level by updating the renderer or replacing it entirely?

"Unless the new Japanese owner of Poser has an amazing idea up their sleeve to make Poser modern, Poser just ain't gonna do it for real character work anymore."

Poser was never really viable for pro level character work. Surely we all know that right?

There is nothing so far in D|S that changes this. To see what is needed for "real character work" take a look at Motionbuilder and the bone/rigging/skin systems in XSI/Max/Maya.

I have always had and still have a soft spot for Daz. Victoria has, over the years, made me a fair amount of money... but let's be somewhat realistic here. Daz is in a position to make a play for the top dog in a small market. Effectively, the Poser market. They simply do not have the technology clout at the moment to be a major player in the higher end 3D market as a software vendor.

The thing is, Daz COULD be a major player in the high end market... but as a content supplier, not a tool company. Rig V3 fully for Motionbuilder. Skin/Rig her for Maya. Skin/Rig her for Max. I mean >really< do it - muscles, bones and so on.

They'd sell a million of them. It's an entirely new market out there just dying for something like her in those tools - and that market is never really going to use D|S and especially not Bryce.

"So now I only need to figure out what all that buzz is about - I never used Bryce in my whole life, and so far, I couldn't figure out why people are so keen on rendering their Poser figures in it."

Bryce was an innovative program for the time - geared for Terrain generation and world building. Honestly as a general 3D app it ranks (for me) somewhere just under ripping my own head off with a blender and hoping the blood makes a pretty picture.

Basically it is way, way behind the curve on being a modern 3D application. It has a large and dedicated following though.

It will be upsetting if it turns out that direct P5 -> Bryce imports aren't possible. I think it is a bad idea for Daz to continue to force users to chose between them and CL. It is to my mind a very, very sad thing that Daz never moved to embrace the advances in P5... those advances are, to me, much more important than being able to use the latest figure.

The fact that I can't use all my Poser content and scenes in D|S is why I never really put D|S in my workflow.

The fact that Daz has not embraced dynamic cloth or hair or advanced materials for its figures and products has prevented me from buying a lot of stuff from them. In many cases now there is really no good reason to keep buying textures and items that don't take advantage of the technology at our disposal.

While that won't ever change and it looks like Daz is in the process of breaking their content away from Poser I can hope that Bryce won't make this choice any worse.

Because right now, if I have to chose between being locked into Bryce and D|S and using Poser to work with particular items Poser wins hands down.

I was gonna come over from the Bryce forum and give you guys some friendly grief..but you're way ahead of me..;) I'm still trying to figure out why adding Bryce = losing Poser. They've been supporting Poser for years, so how does that follow? A little competition never hurt, and if Daz Studio gives Poser a run for it's money, then Poser will be forced to upgrade and add new features, and everybody wins..and if Bryce can get to a point where I don't have to retexture Vicky's eyeballs every time I import her into Bryce, that's a good thing too..though I wonder who cleaned up at the 'wild speculation' forum at Poser..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

So what does this mean for Poserdom at large? Poser is getting absorbed into Shade, while D|S will get absorbed into a suite that seamlessly moves from D|S to Bryce to ...?

My bet would be Lightwave.

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 14:22

"I don't see a compelling reason to buy either at the moment. Time will tell, I guess." How about DAZ producing no more Poser compatible content? They have already started to move to a D|S specific content. It wouldn't take much to make all their new stuff be D|S (or the Bryce equivalent) only.

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in Post no. 9; kuroyume0161 said: "...I have a 2x2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, 533MHz bus system with more than 1/2 TeraByte (yes, your read that correctly) of storage and Poser stills chugs along at a snail's pace (esp. Poser 5)...." Have you rendered anything earnest in Bryce? It will take a whole lot longer than P5. I'm talking of stills of course, as you can't animate with Bryce. in Post no 31; stewer said: "So now I only need to figure out what all that buzz is about - I never used Bryce in my whole life, and so far, I couldn't figure out why people are so keen on rendering their Poser figures in it." It was interesting to render in Bryce because you could use tons of materials, raytracing and so on. But since P5 I see no need to bother with the straining importing process in Bryce, because P5 can do as good as Bryce. And pakled: They are not supporting Poser actually, they ar ignoring P5.

I can completely understand why DAZ isn't interested in making Poser 5 stuff compatible; I imagine that the only reason why they're still making stuff that does work completely well with Poser is because D|S isn't complete yet. What I don't understand is how having Bryce will benefit users of the finished D|S. Just a couple thoughts... - You can already pose figures in Studio. Having a plug-in for Bryce that lets you do this seems redundant. - Studio offers the more advanced material menus, displacement mapping, reflections, lighting, and all that. No reason to render figures in Bryce just for those things now. - Bryce is not a serious modeling program like Rhino or Lightwave, so I doubt you'll be able to make morphs, figures, or detailed props in it. Maybe I'm missing something, but the only advantage I can see offhand is that DAZ can now sell Bryce props...and what, landscape files and materials? If they had bought Rhino and said that you'll be able to import native .DAZ files into it and use it's modeling tools to easily make morphs and new figures, I could see that being big news. Hopefully someone else will be able to tell us why this apparently is. :) SnowS

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I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

BekaVal; "Have you rendered anything earnest in Bryce? It will take a whole lot longer than P5" I fully agree. I used to import all Poser stuff into Bryce(4) simply for better lighting and material editing, but What A Pain it was. And then after spending 2 or three days setting in Poser then 2+ more days tweaking in Bryce came the PAINSTAKING 6~10 Day and Night Render Time!! I think the quickest render I had in Bryce was about 3 days and it was not one of my usual "full" scenes! I tried to do an animation of a witch elf that floated in a 360 circle....but I gave up trying to complete the FIFTEEN Day and FIFTEEN Night Render!! So I just settled for the single shot still that alone took about 6 Days & 6 Nights to render!! (that same scene now would render in FireFly in about an hour)

So they wont support poser any more? That is thrilling news if you are a masochist :) This stinks out loud. If someone made a good terragen-like skyrender plugin for poser 5 right now then you could render scenes better than bryce and much faster than daz studio.

"They have already started to move to a D|S specific content. It wouldn't take much to make all their new stuff be D|S (or the Bryce equivalent) only. " I never understand why people keep saying this...as a broker at daz I see no push to make anything exclusivly D/S specific. It all has to be both D/S and poser compatible. I have seen nothing to show that they tend to drop making poser content...so lets get over that point

"- You can already pose figures in Studio. Having a plug-in for Bryce that lets you do this seems redundant."

How about instead making a way to absorb D|S into Bryce, so that you can pose figures on-the-fly within a landscape, instead of "pose, import process, preview, aww - shit! the left leg goes through the ground here!, go back and pose some more, import the whole shebang again, see if it fits this time, preview, d'oh! It's off by a hair's breadth!, go back and pose some more..."

Instead, just do it all right there in the proggie. Makes more sense to me, anyway.

"Studio offers the more advanced material menus, displacement mapping, reflections, lighting, and all that. No reason to render figures in Bryce just for those things now."

This time the benefit works in reverse... shoe-horn the D|S materials handling into Bryce, and make it seamless.

"Bryce is not a serious modeling program like Rhino or Lightwave, so I doubt you'll be able to make morphs, figures, or detailed props in it."

Agreed - but with freebie modelling proggies like OpenFX or Wings, or Amapi, what's the prob? :)

/P Message edited on: 06/23/2004 15:51

Addendum - perhaps we can consider it an upgrade for the (bigger) Bryce community, instead of the other way 'round. As for DAZ not supporting poser anymore in favor of D|S or various other stupid rumors, I suspect that more than a couple of individuals have their heads firmly lodged in their asses... It's simple business sense that screams otherwise for frig sakes. /P

I don't think Daz would abandon the Poser market. That would be a unwise move. It is its bread and butter. If it decides to drop the poser content, I am sure sites like Renderosity, Poserpros, Runtimedna... would be delighted. They'll continue to provide content to poser I am sure with one major competitor out of the way. I merely think that Daz is tapping into an unexplored Bryce content market. Content has always been the succes of Poser. Maybe content can revive Bryce. If you compare this with the cellular market. Daz' merely a service provider, not the manufacturer. At least not in the immediately future. My 2 cents

---

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Software: Daz Studio 4.15,  Photoshop CC, Zbrush 2022, Blender 3.3, Silo 2.3, Filter Forge 4. Marvelous Designer 7

Hardware: self built Intel Core i7 8086K, 64GB RAM,  RTX 3090 .

"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

"A critic is a legless man who teaches running." ~ Channing Pollock

My Gallery  My Other Gallery 

""I don't see a compelling reason to buy either at the moment. Time will tell, I guess." How about DAZ producing no more Poser compatible content?" That makes no difference to me. DAZ aren't the only people on the planet capable of building models ;) I joined the PC just long enough to get some basics from DAZ. Haven't seen anything else there since that interests me, frankly. I like to model my own stuff, though. Lotta people don't.

I am sure sites like Renderosity, Poserpros, Runtimedna ... They'll continue to provide content to poser I am sure with one major competitor out of the way. Yes and no ... DAZ may be a competitor in one respect, but in another it IS a manufacturer. The majority of the products that other artists at the above mentioned sites produce are based around DAZ products. Others have tried to create their own figures, but so far none have the support or following that the DAZ figures do.

.bookmarking.

,,,,,:-)

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=49429

They announced the details. They say they're working on a plugin that will allow you to import Poser and D|S scenes into Bryce. It will be $30...$1.99 for PC members. PC version ready this week, Mac version coming. (The plugin won't allow direct import of Poser files. You'll have to import them to D|S, then export to Bryce.)

And Bryce itself will keep its current pricing. But there will be the usual introductory discount and PC discount, so PC members can get it for about $40.

I dont see what all the fuss is. Being a long time Bryce user, I am just happy to see life breathed back into a wonderful program extending its usefullnes with the promise of new developement. Bryce 5 hasnt killed off poser and I am pretty sure Bryce 6 wont either. I would think folks would be happy at having another option and tool to work with. Those that are unhappy about it, I just dont know what to say to you. (shakes head and walks away)

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 17:34

Warmest Regards,

Dallas

The plugin is available as well as bryce right now. The plug is listed as beta, and is in the PC club for $1.99. Bryce5 is on sale for $59, if I remember right. Wonder if it's 5, or bryce 5.1?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I read somewhere in all the blurb on this at DAZ that they had spoken to eon while they were in Japan and conversed about Poser using the same software to import figures into Bryce. I don't believe I imagined this so if I can find it again I'll post a link to what was said. Anyway as far as Bryce being given new life I'm all for that, it's my other fabourite program. 8) Catlin

It is easy to see how rumors and misinformation gets propagated. I am not aware of any .daz formatted products that are available on the DAZ website. Pretty much everything is available as Poser formatted products. Our business is based on supporting the Poser market. We hope through our acquisition of Bryce we can expand the possibilities within this market. We hope through the development of DAZ Studio we can expand the possibilities further. We have spent tremendous amounts of efforts being able to support the Poser file formats within D|S because we see the value of what is available in this community. We plan to extend that support within Bryce.

Currently we have developed a Bryce importer that reads .obj files and .mtl files. Poser currently does not export all the necessary .mtl information that Bryce needs to display the scenes properly. Studio can read the Poser scene files and export the necessary information for Bryce (since we have the code for both programs we can control that now). We have send a correspondence to Curious Labs extending the offer to help them know what information they need to include in the .mtl file so that the Bryce pluggin will work strait from Poser (without needing to go through Studio). As for Poser 5 scene capabilities, it will depend on what data can be contained within the .obj and .mtl to go into Bryce.

I hope this helps to clarify things to some extent. Please know that we have no intentions of leaving this community.

Sincerely,

Dan Farr

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 20:26

Hey Dan.. any possibility of dynamic hair or clothes down the road?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Gareee, Sure but as you put it "down the road".

hey, I got my carrot, and ya'll are saying you will work on a Poser to Bryce direct -- that makes me happy. Now, if ya'll can could just rebone the damn horsey, most folks would be happy ;) Thanks for responding, Dan.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Cool, Dan! Wonder if Vue will have a price drop now in the near future?? ;)

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I hope this helps to clarify things to some extent. Please know that we have no intentions of leaving this community. Excellent response. I support DAZ. In my opinion, they go out of their way to make users happy. Regardless of your beliefs on what a company SHOULD do to keep customers happy, not a lot of companies would do that. Not a lot of executives would take the time to visit user forums and make posts to clarify concerns either. Now I'll go away and wipe the BROWN from the tip of my nose. ;-P

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Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

....does this mean we don't get a Van Hesling style Baby Vampire now??? :*(

Have you rendered anything earnest in Bryce? It will take a whole lot longer than P5. I'm talking of stills of course, as you can't animate with Bryce. I don't have or use Bryce. I use C4D, LightWave, and Vue d'Esprit/Pro... and I'm working on fixing the problem of Poser content on the first one 'as we speak'. Hmmm. An advanced Materials editor, dynamic cloth simulations, strand based hair, IBL (oh yeah, it's in there), limited atmospherics... A Materials editor finally on par with the rest of the 3D CG world, strand based hair that's useless even with my specs, a Face room which is eye-candy and that's all, and what is IBL? The reason that dynamic cloth and micropolygon displacement are useless to me in Poser is because Poser doesn't have anything near a realistic rendering engine (and slow at that) or a realistic lighting/shadowing model. Some of this would be solved by allowing us to import stills and animations into other 3D apps. With Poser 5 and the number of version changes to candidate software, this is no longer an option. Poser content is amazing - posable, morphable, dressable. The application to which this content is tied is archaic, slow, and unresponsive for anything but hobby work or extremely laborious work in a more professional/amateur arena. But, as you mentioned, I digress... The reason Poser is all of these is the lack of competition. As soon as some is seen on the horizon, everybody gets antsy. Bring on some worthy competition and make Poser sweat! Kuroyume

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

What are your specs, then? If you refer to computer system, I use Dynamic hair frequently in animations on a 2MHz system with 384MB of RAM. Works fine. And you sidestep your very point into a new one -- no backing off. You said: "Other than micropolygon displacement, what has Poser 5 really offered that is so much better than Poser 4, Poser 3?" I responded with those features. You did not, in your original post, meniton "specs" or Other software, you specifically asked about Poser 4 and Poser 3. The point still stands. What is IBL? IBL is Image Based Lighting, which is a sort of subset of GI and HDRI and all that other fun stuff -- IBL is exposed, but the rest is not. The rendering engine is quite capable of them -- the features haven't been exposed yet. "...Poser doesn't have anything near a realistic rendering engine (and slow at that) or a realistic lighting/shadowing model." You must be dwelling in Poser 4, sir -- Poser 5 uses Firefly, a hybrid Reyes renderer that's renderman complaint and posesses several advanced features you obviously haven't researched adequately. In point of fact, it's often considered a superior rendering engine to 3Delight -- the full features of which D|S ALSO hasn't exposed yet. Further, you mentioned you use Vue, yet you say you can't import these features to other apps when Reiss Studios has plugins available and continues to develop more of them and you yourself own Vue, which has Mover 5, which is capable of transferring the dynamics (hair and cloth) into what you obviously consider a better source (Vue). Perhaps if you learned to use the software properly, you might actually be able to hold an argument of substance. As it is thus far, you do not.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Actually, by way of fairness, D|S does use proper materials. As for Dynamic hair - IMO it's nice and all, but it all looks the same, and one can tell pretty fast in a render whether or not it's Poser 5 dynamic hair that got used. Also, until recently, most P5 features were completely unexportable. Now - arguing between D|S and Poser is looking to boil down to the same Linux vs. Windows bullshit that rages around the 'net today. You have zealots for both sides, and you have this lump of humanity in the middle who will lean towards one or the other --like me for instance-- but uses both without embarassment. I lean towards Linux and prefer it wherever possible, but I still use Windows XP Pro for Poser and such. I contribute to Linux projects when I can but hold two different MCSE's. I also use a Mac Cube w/ OS 10.2.8, and will prolly make my next computer a dual G5 sometime next year if I'm in the mood for an upgrade and don't get seduced by a dual Opteron set first... (shrug.) Tangent aside, the point is that arguing about which is better, when one is still in beta (and the other in semi-limbo pending Shade's next release), is kinda silly. /P

"The plugin won't allow direct import of Poser files. You'll have to import them to D|S, then export to Bryce." A very bad thing. D|S is screwing up many joints of Poser figures.

As for Dynamic hair - IMO it's nice and all, but it all looks the same, Because everybody's too lazy to learn how to use it and prefers to spend money on some transmapped stuff instead. And..."it all looks the same" - isn't that what applies to 99% of the Poser gallery images anyway?

It's not surprising that Daz has not been supporting P5-specific features - so many people haven't upgraded from P4 because P5 was not the upgrade they hoped for or wanted.

Dan is spot on that it's not Bryce's fault that Poser doesn't export a full set of the .mtl code describing material settings. However, being able to import P4 material settings is a waste of time, because they're so primitive (as is the P4 materials editor - ugh!). Being able to import P5 material settings would be different.

A speculation I have seen on another site (which may not be mentioned by name) is that Daz may have wanted to get their hands on Bryce partly to be able to copy the interface into D|S and thereby make it more Poser-like.

Message edited on: 06/24/2004 05:39

"A speculation I have seen on another site (which may not be mentioned by name) is that Daz may have wanted to get their hands on Bryce partly to be able to copy the interface into D|S and thereby make it more Poser-like." Man, I hope not! Bryce's interface is one of the reasons I moved to Vue. And I won't move back unless they clean it up. The Poser/Bryce artsy-fartsy interface sucks. People only like it because it's what they're used to. They'd be pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to move to a clean, fast, streamlined, funtional interface...like I was when I went from Bryce to Vue. And give me Vue-like layers (all 3d apps should have this). And direct import of pz3's and DS files. If they won't do that, I wonder if they'll let e-on support DS import in Vue? waves back at ynsaen

I'm talking of stills of course, as you can't animate with Bryce Uhm, sorry, but yes you can. Animation has been part of Bryce since version 3. I use it extensively in my work. There's even a rather famous (within Bryce circles) film called "Interplanetary Traveller" that first demonstrated Bryce's animation capabilities.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

"Because everybody's too lazy to learn how to use it and prefers to spend money on some transmapped stuff instead." Err, not exactly what I meant... I meant that it all looks like stylized straw, not that it's all the same set of styles. "And..."it all looks the same" - isn't that what applies to 99% of the Poser gallery images anyway?" 99% of the Poser gallery has cross-eyed figures too, but again, I wasn't referring to style. Phantast - I'd suspect that, from what I know of DAZ, that it would prolly be in reverse, that the D|S interface would go into Bryce before Bryce's interface made it into D|S... though to be honest, Bryce's interface wasn't too awful bad to get used to; my only real kick against Bryce had to do with the render engine. /P

Err, not exactly what I meant... I meant that it all looks like stylized straw, not that it's all the same set of styles. It doesn't look like stylized straw if you learn to use it. Stew could post some mind-blowing examples.

Actually, that's an incredible price for Bryce 5. I had given my Bryce5 away as a gift (keeping my Bryce 4 though I haven't used it in a long long time). But as I think now, I recall seeing Bryce 5 on the shelves at Fry's Electronics with a $199.99 price tag. This was about a month ago. I was there for a new DVD burner and was browsing hoping for another copy of Poser Artist (formerly Poser4), because, dang it, I've missplaced my copy around the house somewhere and can't find. (sigh Installed it on the laptop and now can't find the silly disk). Anyway, at that price at DAZ, I'd get a Bryce 5. I would still like to see this new plugin import directly from Poser 4 or 5, since I have no plans to use DAZ studio. Liz

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

 

 

But as I think now, I recall seeing Bryce 5 on the shelves at Fry's Electronics with a $199.99 price tag. This was about a month ago. Yeek. That's way overpriced. Corel was selling it for $79.

"I have seen nothing to show that they tend to drop making poser content...so lets get over that point "

The issue is not dropping Poser content, it's whether future Daz content will be enhanced for D|S. I would hope it would be... there would have been little point to spending the $$$ on D|S if it didn't provide them some technical advantages.

"Some of this would be solved by allowing us to import stills and animations into other 3D apps. With Poser 5 and the number of version changes to candidate software, this is no longer an option."

Really? I suppose then all that content in my 3DS/Max window is a figment of my imagination :)

You must be dreaming...Reiss Studio, Mover, TransPoser or that strange import menu and that python script palette don't exist!

Reiss Studio has two import plugins: 3DSMax (for $179) and Maya ($299). Wow! That's frigging expensive. Nothing even mentioned yet for LW8 and C4D 8, but at these prices, I'll stay away anyway. TransPoser (which happens to be the name I'm giving my C4D plugin - completely by accident) is ONLY for Carrara Studio. With LW and C4D (and soon Maya), why would I use a third-rate 3D application for rendering Poser content? Mover is only for Vue. Same question to be posed (hehe) here. See, all of these guys make you spend more money for ... using Poser to create everything and render in other packages. If I wanted to do stills in C4D, I could just export the character (etc.) as .obj, import, and fix the materials. Voila! Poser import, gratis. My solution works this way: Have Poser Library content displayed in another app and load the geometry, morphs, bones, poses for direct use in the app. Greenbriar Studio is already heading that direction (and I like that direction). This is a screenshot of the plugin as it stands. Most of the Poser file parsing has already been accomplished. The hardest part will be boning, morphing, and conforming. Then, who needs Poser.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

might be an accident, but it's one you'll have to change -- TransPoser is a trademark now. That plug in looks good. Real good. What's your anticipated price for it?

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Yeah, I figured that. Which kinda sucks since I spent some quality time with my software dictionary looking for just the right name. TransPoser is perfect, but obviously Eovia thought the same thing, first! Thank you. And this thing is currently handling three Runtime Libraries, two of which have over 7500 valid Poser files (not just files). Took less than a week so far to work the interface (and underlying structure). Poser file parsing code is from a previous project that did not materialize, but this time I'm on the warpath, determined, and pacing myself to accomplish this task. This time I desparately need this, so the drive is personal. Don't know about pricing yet, but it will not be $299+. The idea price should be around $100, if that. It's not that Poser sucks. It is a wonderful application, but it is not living up to my (and others') needs and the potential of the content. And since the Poser 5 debacle and the geologic pace of adding third-party support, not many choices are left.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Looks good, kuroyume! I wish you all the luck with it! It's great to see people who do not just complain but do something about it!

Another way to use poser 5 figures with almost any other 3d app is to export them as wavefront or 3ds objects. With the newer daz studio format you wont be able to do that, ever.

"My solution works this way: Have Poser Library content displayed in another app and load the geometry, morphs, bones, poses for direct use in the app. Greenbriar Studio is already heading that direction (and I like that direction)." If you can move Vicki into 3DS and keep her morphable and rig her reasonably well you'll sell a billion of em.

The Bryce interface is only difficult when unfamiliar. And actually, it has layers of a sort, only they're called families.

I found the bryce interface to be quite easy to use, especially since it is so similar to the poser interface.