drawbridgep opened this issue on Aug 13, 2004 ยท 79 posts
drawbridgep posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:12 PM
I just posted one of my pictures (Spanish Alley) to another forum just to get some feedback from a totally different set of artists and had only one response. His advice was "My suggestion for improvement is delete Bryce from your hard drive". How dare he suggest such a thing. Guess I won't be posting to that site again.
drawbridgep posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:14 PM
AND he said "[bryce is] Fast and pretty with very little redeeming value when it comes to transferable skills to a 'real' 3D package."
Angela252 posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:15 PM
Wow, what the heck kind of place did you go to?
draculaz posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:19 PM
omg.. let me at them!!!! give me the url and i'll set them straight. drac (serious)
drawbridgep posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:21 PM
To be fair, he thought it was a good picture, but still. Not wanting to set Drac on them I won't mention the site, but it was linked to one of the UK's Computer Arts magazines. Oh, did I give it away?
draculaz posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:26 PM
bwaaahahhahaa
Angela252 posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:29 PM
Well not to me you didn't, LOL. I don't have a clue, but I think Drac may have. :-D
drawbridgep posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:31 PM
Whispers to Ang - Computer Arts, but don't tell the others. The whisper thing does work in forums as well as chat doesn't it?
ocddougdotcom posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:37 PM
Let me guess, Deviant Art? I stopped posting there for that reason. Most there HATE Bryce and Poser.
draculaz posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:42 PM
drac generally doesn't have a clue -drac's alter ego
drawbridgep posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:42 PM
No Doug, but strange you should say that since I saw DeviantArt listed on the same forum and was gonna try. Don't think I'll bother now.
What was I thinking? I feel like I've been unfaithful to you all. But it was just one time and it really didn't mean anything.
Message edited on: 08/13/2004 21:44
drawbridgep posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:47 PM
And another thing. Why are most computer graphic magazines British and why doesn't the US have decent graphics mags and why do the imported British ones cost $15.00?!! I'm used to popping into WHSmith and spending 3 quid on a magazine that I'll skim through. Now if I buy one, I'll have to treasure it like a first edition. Can you tell I'm in a bad mood now?
ocddougdotcom posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 9:56 PM
Yea, don't bother with Deviant Art, that place is a waste of time.
foleypro posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 10:06 PM
I get the same thing all of the time...I dont care..Soon I will Master their Programs Then I will use what I create in THEIR Programs and still Render My Stills in Bryce...Soon I will be able to do all of this in the NEW Bryce...Animate,Lowpoly,High Poly...Then I can say...So They said what we do in Bryce doesnt Transfer Over to the Higher 3D Programs...Ha...Total BS...Shader Tweaking is almost like using The Texture Editor...And How we apply Maps in Bryce is very similar to Max's we use basically Slots and we can Tweak the UV Map...And Metaballin and Boolean would be the same except for the Export Options... Bottom line dont take it tooo heart...I have Pics all over and am friends who use The other Programs and Yes they are Making Money and I am not BUT my Stills look Way better then theirs but their animations blow mine away...I hope to Remedy that soon... AND... They can kiss the arse of a Hog waller Pig and may a Billion Facets Infect their renders....
draculaz posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 10:07 PM
bah, well, the computer arts site barely works for me here in korea, so i'll leave the flame war till some other time. drawbridge: probably because the US ones aren't subject to your state price control laws? drac
drawbridgep posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 10:13 PM
@foleypro - Well said. :-) @Drac - Your 10meg DSL playing up then? Shame ;-p Computer Arts has no idea how close it came.
draculaz posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 10:23 PM
well no. see what happens is that the South Korean government is very particular about where it allows me to go. If CA has had any dealings with North Korean propaganda (how I wouldn't know, maybe England has had other views on the rogue state than these guys here), then it's gonna be pretty hard to access any British site for a while :)
Zhann posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 10:48 PM
You cpuld always say the image was done in another 'real 3d' software and then see what kind of comments you'd get, if they are glowing, you'd then sit back and have a hoot to all those deluded people and their high handed treatment of Bryce....:) What was the site? Maybe I'll post one of mine and say it was done in C4D, and see what kind of comments I get....;]
Bryce Forum Coordinator....
Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...
drawbridgep posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 10:59 PM
Attached Link: http://forum.computerarts.co.uk/
I posted in the exposure forum.
drawbridgep posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 11:02 PM
You raise a very good point. I wonder what comment I would have got if I had just posted the picture without saying the name of the app. I think you should post, just to see.
foleypro posted Fri, 13 August 2004 at 11:38 PM
I agree too...Do it...Lets se what they say...
Kemal posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 12:32 AM
@ Phil ! :) I just checked out that guys home page and his work is (to be gentle) less then impressive for somebody who is using serious software, i guess it is not a tool which matters, only artist and the idea !!! You are certanly on the good track (in my opinion), you can give me entire Maya with all addons, my work is still gonna suck, cuz i'm not in that stage of my developement, there is nothing I can do about it but work, and work and work, and then, results will follow !!! :)
AgentSmith posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 12:40 AM
This problem will always exsist. I suggest when anyone posts in general forums somewhere else...don't actually tell them what you used...to begin with, see what they say. Then, if you really want, tell them. I bet you see a differece of opion AFTER you tell them. To get honest critique, don't mention Bryce at first. (just my opinion) The word "Bryce" can bias people. That's people NOT artists. True artists see your art, and not your "$60 tool/toy". And, just wait....Bryce 5.5 and 6.0 will only upset those "people" more, trust me. ;oD AgentSmith
Contact Me | Gallery |
Freestuff | IMDB
Credits | Personal
Site
"I want to be what I was
when I wanted to be what I am now"
Ardiva posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 12:46 AM
Kemal posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 12:50 AM
Hey, AS, i wish i payed $60, when I bought it it was $180 as upgrade from B4, so I do not consider my personal copy a toy, lol !!!
draculaz posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 1:48 AM
bwaaaaaaaaaaahahhahhahahahaha! SUCCESS!
pogmahone posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 2:10 AM
He likes to sound important and well-informed. He doesn't use a 3d program, judging by his website. And I'm guessing that the Pittsburgh Chapter of International Game Developers is him-and-his-dog ROTFL
Bea posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 2:27 AM
I don't think you can assume that everyone there thnks the same as him - after all - he has only been a member for less than a month :) - and I love your picture
ocddougdotcom posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 2:28 AM
I think if someone is always putting down Bryce, he is insecure as hell with his 3dsmax or Maya skills. He's got the crazy idea he's better than a Rochr or Hobbit since he's got the $3000 prog. I agree that if you're gonna post pics for review (other than here) say you did it in Max or something. Then, after they give you praise, tell em Bryce is your bitch! LOL...
draculaz posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 3:14 AM
occudog is wise :)
roobol posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 3:20 AM
Think I'm going to post one there as well, just for the fun of it :-)
Kathye posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 3:26 AM
It's funny, for years I've avoided flame wars and the like but I'm sitting here with an evil grin on my face looking at Zhann's posting and waiting for the sparks to fly. People who can't see that the art comes from the artist and not the program deserve to get egg on their faces when their pretentions are exposed.
zandar posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 3:46 AM
Well, being a 3dsMax user myself (and having a Bryce background), I have to say the person who left the comment is most likely thinking strictly in terms of "working in the industry", and not regarding the artwork in question at all.
The reason I say that is, the only validation someone should have to criticize another for working in an app like Bryce or Poser is the fact that having skills in those applications will not land you a job in a major studio or movie FX house or game developement company, where having a career in the 3D industry can earn you a comfortable living.
Before someone spins what I'm trying to say as being yet another anti-Bryce/Poser argument in itself, let me just point out that I drop by this forum because I still feel Bryce is a great 3D program, being used by talented 3D artists, even though I had to eventually move away from it (not by choice) for production purposes.
THIS is where the perceived bias comes in, and how it's easy to spot a professional 3D artist who's making legitimate crits from a wanna-be who's simply trying to sound important.
Professionals usually don't frown on an image or animation simply because of what program was used in it's creation. They will simply critique the image/animation on it's own merit, and point out any esthetic flaws that might be improved upon. Wanna-be's, who are still in school or trying to break into the 3D visual FX industry, will ALWAYS frown upon someone working with lower-end applications because they have the common but mistaken belief that EVERYONE working in 3D endeavors to land a job at ILM, Pixar, Dreamworks, or LucasArts. They think that everyone should learn Maya, 3dsMax, or Lightwave, because those are the apps that can land you a job at a big name company.
Most of the wanna-be's can't get their head around the idea that some folks simply enjoy 3D as a hobby, or perhaps have no intention on working for someone else, but instead wish to start up their own small company (like I did).
For me, the quality of a piece of art has NOTHING to do with what program you used, and any crits on such an image or animation should not begin with a bias to that factor. I made the move from programs like Bryce to what I'm working with now (3dsMax) for the simple fact of productivity. While working with Bryce and other programs some years ago (non-professionally), I decided to start my own small, indepentant company dedicated to graphic design and 3D illustration for print and advertisements (more currently moving into animation and game developement as well). We do everything from commercial website design (2d) to technical 3D illustration and compositing for commercial print advertisements that have appeared in internationally distributed magazines, etc. Since making the move to a more complete 3D package, I have found the production rate and output speed to be much more efficient than can be done in most so-called "low end" apps. This isn't a bias, it's a simple fact of the way things are as of right now. If future editions of Bryce incorporate a more efficient, production-capable renderer and toolset, then I may consider using it again if it would enhance my workflow.
Anyway, the thing to do has already been mentioned. Simply do not state what application you have used to make your art unless asked. If you state what you are using, you're going to predispose your art to bias. No way around that.
:-)
shadowdragonlord posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 4:18 AM
Zandar, you rock.
kiwi_gg posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 4:55 AM
Right on the money Zandar,8)!!!!!!!! Cheers GG.
WHO said Kiwi's can't Fly ?????
Rochr posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 5:01 AM
Oh, man. If you knew how many of those ive got at CGtalk... :) Although that one, i think, was a nicer way to put it. However, in almost 99% of the cases, its people who dont know how to use the app. Theyve pushed some buttons for a few weeks, couldnt do a thing and imagine they know everything about Bryce. And then there are those whove never even tried the app, heard how bad it is (from the dont know how to use it-people), and therefore they think it sucks. Even more clever... Although i can agree with some of the things Zandar pointed out, but not everything. "the fact that having skills in those applications will not land you a job in a major studio or movie FX house or game developement company..." Not true! Ive got several offers. Blur (where even Tim Miller admitted using Bryce now and then), Meteor Studios, 2 gaming houses in France, and a few more , all thanks to what ive done in Bryce. Granted, i would be working with other software, but thats not the point. It was the work made with Bryce, that got their attention. You will never get away from the fact that some people imagine, that if you have a $10000 app, youll automatically spitting out masterpieces and get that job at ILM. But in the end, what matters is talent and imagination, IMHO drawbridgep has a lot of it. Keep posting there, and dont let comments like that put you down. :)
Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com
zandar posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 5:22 AM
"Granted, i would be working with other software, but thats not the point. It was the work made with Bryce, that got their attention."
Actually, I think the point is clear... it was the work made by YOU that got their attention. Doesn't matter what software you may have used, clearly you would be an asset to any company due to your talent. :-)
To clarify, I didn't mean having talent in Bryce is going to hinder you from getting a job, I meant having knowledge in the application isn't something paramount to getting hired at large studios, as opposed to having a good working knowledge of the more commonly used "professional" apps, since many companies do not offer much in the way of training.
But nothing replaces sheer talent.
Message edited on: 08/14/2004 05:26
sackrat posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 5:30 AM
OK,.....I don't usually get into flaming, I usually try to use humor to difuse the situation, but this pusillanimous self-important knuckle-dragging little poofter has got my Irish up. Hey sport, I didn't have to take out a second mortgage in order to buy Bryce. I didn't have to buy 30 plug-ins to do what I can do with Bryce. If in fact he bought whatever "real 3d app" he uses and didn't download it from a peer to peer network in the first place. Ohhhhhh,....this rots my socks. Sorry to be so hostile but geez,.........When I first saw your image drawbridgep I spent the next 10 minutes banging my head against a wall saying "Why can't I do work like this, like this, like this".
Message edited on: 08/14/2004 05:32
"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx
blaufeld posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 5:33 AM
:P This was my reply on that forum... "What Blaine seems to miss is that many people uses 3d prog to create an image as a form of art to EXPRESS themselves. I, for me, don't care less if for attaining my goal I use Adobe Photoshop, PSP, Poser, Bryce or a photocamera... what interests to me is to express myself - and if I'm not able to model a pretty realistic bric or a rusty nail and I have to download it from some freebie site, so it is... After all, Helmut Newton doesn't builded all the buildings or fathered all the models he photographed - but no one denies his photographs are ART... 
"
Rochr posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 5:50 AM
Zandar, I think were on the same level here. :) What i wanted to point out, was that the big studios arent the ones bitchin about what software is used. If people have the talent, itreally doesnt matter what tool theyve used. Naturally, having knowledge of the industry apps helps, but its not always necessary. ps. still love that bike of yours. :)
Rudolf Herczog
Digital Artist
www.rochr.com
zandar posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 6:19 AM
We're definitely on the same level, Rochr. I just should have been more thoughtfully articulate in the way I phrased that sentence. ;-) Funny story: I recently upgraded to 3dsMax v6, and one of the things I noticed almost immediately were the new architectural objects (AEC Extended) that includes a plant library. The first thing that came to my mind, even now, was to export one of them as OBJ to see how it would look in Bryce. LOL. Alas, I didn't have my old copy of the program handy though. :-(
pogmahone posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 6:25 AM
wakes up hey! what's that about getting your Irish up? how dare you insult the Irish c'mon, I'll fight you with one hand tied behind my back..............
drawbridgep posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 8:07 AM
Good morning all. I've woken up to this and feel much better and the funny thing, he was critiquing the application rather than the art and I felt more defensive about that. :-) I like the fact a few of you have posted to the forum. :-)Zhann has posted one of her's without saying it's Bryce. One so so comment so far. I would comment, but that might give the game away. So many great comments you lot have made here, it's hard to comment on them all. I'm not looking for a job in 3d Art, I'm just having some fun. So like most of us, I can't warrant spending $5000 on an application that's not gonna make me a better artist. As for not naming the app when I post. It's a shame we have to do that. We should be proud at what we've done with a $60 application. I'm a Brycer and I think I will always be a Brycer. Long live Bryce.
drawbridgep posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 10:58 AM
Had some more comments, this one really got me...: "In your defence, that doesn't look like beginner work, but it is a stereotypical look. We all have to go through various stages of stereotypical stuff before developing our own style." In my defence?! Did I say I was a beginner? Are they assuming that I'm a beginner because it's my first post, or because I'm using Bryce? Stereotypical?! I am SO done with that forum.
IndigoSplash posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 11:30 AM
I seem to only get the dreaded red X on images at that site. Poopy! wanders off pouting
blaufeld posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 12:38 PM
Take a look at the reply that the dude Inkworm wrote... it is so full of arrogance that makes me sick... :P Stupid elitist.
tjohn posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 1:41 PM
Roobol:
Your pic is showing up as a little red x although I can see Drawbridge and Zhann's pics.
After reading the comments I have to say that the commentors there are so commercial art oriented (and I like commercial art, but only for its esthetic value) that they could not recognize artistic talent or art for art's sake if it bit them on the tushie.
Which makes their comments worthless. Their only outlook is, if it's not perfect, get a more expensive program. Sheesh.
Message edited on: 08/14/2004 13:43
This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.
"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy
pogmahone posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 2:14 PM
I offer this from a1m1m25.... "In your defence, that doesn't look like beginner work, but it is a stereotypical look. We all have to go through various stages of stereotypical stuff before developing our own style." .........and you can see what he's producing now that he's gone through his stereotypical stage at his website http://www.ajcgi.co.uk/ ;o) Aaaaahhhhhh to be young and arrogant! rotfl
drawbridgep posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 3:15 PM
We have to remember to discuss topics here and the comments they make and not the people themselves. To start ripping their art apart makes us just as blind as them. We're the bigger people afterall.
Redfeather posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 4:03 PM
due true drawbridgep. I know im jumpin in a bit late, but I had to go see for myself what "they" could do or consider excellent work. truth is its not the programs or even the artist that r the issue. its a mindset that seems to be unavoidable. let em have there muck. After previewing what they consider art (and shall we look at what they consider humor...all at a lose minus monty pythons) Im not impressed with em. personally I think it takes more talent and creativity to work with bryce than some of the more expensive programs.
Head held high no matter the verbale beating (there just jelouse anyway)
Message edited on: 08/14/2004 16:09
Redfeather posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 4:04 PM
oops man i need to find a good dictionary seems like these days lol
pakled posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 4:50 PM
I guess the only thing I have a problem with C****** A*** is that they get their mags here 6 weeks after issuing them in the UK..still waiting fro V** 3..;)
I guess if we follow their logic, then all of the 'primitivist' art out there is equally invalid..and the artistic complaint against 'mastery'..hmm..deep thoughts..;) maybe they're worried that if everyone can do it, everyone will..;)
I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit
anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
drawbridgep posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 5:21 PM
"From an artistic viewpoint, I would advise you get some books on art composition. The shadows in this image are way too dark, making the walls looks blindingly bright, also the stairs are leading the eye out of the picture. Nice attempt tho." :-|
drawbridgep posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 5:29 PM
I'm really biting my tongue, so I'll write my reply here since I'm not writing to Computer Arts again. The shadows are supposed to be dark and the walls blindingly bright. I was emphasizing the contrast to create a stylised reality, it's called artistic licence. And of course the stairs are leading the eye out of the picture, that's what stairs do. Ok, the stairs thing is a weak argument. But I'm on the defence.
Redfeather posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 5:48 PM
in defense of drawbridgep: I got it. y didnt they. lack of ability to comprehend the artist intent? (really not trying to be mean just understand why.) personaly I felt the image was very well done. and an excellent depiction of contrast.
however even though the stairs r not the subject an they would like to pick at them. I must ask this individual if they have ever looked out a window and seen stairs leading away from them, and wonder where they went. Or did they contact the arcitect and complain???? (no arguement is week when properly worded lol)
Message edited on: 08/14/2004 17:51
drawbridgep posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 5:52 PM
You've had too much coffee and I've started on the vodka early. (My wife makes a mean martini) SO Not thinking or typing straight anymore today.
Redfeather posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 6:15 PM
HEY HEY he said the magic word VODKA!!!!! well have her send one this way if you would. TY. Its always more fun to watch the turn events when in good company and slightly.... en.. inib... enibri... ah ta heck with spellin, drunk lol Cheers
drawbridgep posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 6:17 PM
Vodka is really helping. This latest batch is more vodka than martini, but it's goooood. I really should get away from the computer before I respond to something and regret it in the morning.
Redfeather posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 6:47 PM
yep nothin like wonderin what happend last night online after a couple o pangalacticgargleblasters (wait a minute is that a refrence to somethin from the U.K. hmmmm... oh well)while dealing with keepin yer head from splintin in 2. heres to stayin outa trouble, long live Bryce.
Message edited on: 08/14/2004 18:49
Bea posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 7:23 PM
Can I just say that the blinding white is what makes this picture- for me? It is just so typical of so many spanish alleys that I have walked down and the colour is just perfect
drawbridgep posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 8:18 PM
@Redfeather - Never drink 2 pangalacticgargleblasters, I hear it's like having your brain smashed in by a piece of lemon.... wrapped around a large gold brick. @Bea - Thanks very much.
PJF posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 8:43 PM
Just to live up to my reputation as "the one who pisses on everyone's chips" (entirely unwarranted, of course ;-)), I must point out that stubborn defence of Bryce can be as misplaced as snobbish attacks on it. It's just a useful tool, and intense arguments (both ways) about Bryce's merit are as sensible as those concerning flat-head vs posidrive screwdrivers. Yeah, Bryce is not an ideal tool for general, high-intensity commercial 3D work, though it remains quite suitable for certain professional applications. Big deal. 'High-end' 3D programs are not necessarily the ideal tools for artists to make art with, though their capacity can make them powerful applications for the technically minded artist. Big deal. Any program in the right hands can produce stunning results. We all know this. We all know arguing otherwise is the desperate redoubt of the feeble-minded. The reason I state the above is that some of the comments causing umbrage are not program specific, and I think those comments should be examined outside of the 'Bryce' issue - whereupon they might, or might not, be seen as fair criticism. I'm always reluctant to get involved in 'art' discussions, which is why I don't get involved with the 'gallery scene' here (or anywhere). But since I've dipped my toe in this water, what the hell... I feel a couple of the technical critiques of drawbridgep's image miss the point, and/or are just bollocks. The discussion of the 'over-exposed' sunlit areas is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, and doesn't require any justification on 'artistic licence' grounds. Lack of dynamic range in photography is a well-known issue, and there are plenty of excellent photographs that 'suffer' from it. Not every photograph needs the Ansel Adams 'Zone System' approach to contrast to be successful, and likewise any 3D scene attempting photo-realism doesn't need to be 'perfect' in this regard. To my mind's eye, drawbridgep's lighting approach is entirely appropriate to simulating the illumination of a deep alleyway. One of the ways in which to 'judge' the success of an image is what I call the 'thumbnail' test (which, usefully, is the default for Renderosity, and some other galleries). Viewing an image in a way in which all the fine detail is made irrelevant is usually a good way of seeing whether the compositional, lighting and photorealism basics are right. Conversely, clicking on a good-looking thumbnail often reveals the failure of a 3D artist to capitalise on their mastery of the basics. For me, drawbridgep's image falls somewhere between the two. Reducing the image to a 30% size thumb reveals both its strengths and weaknesses. The lighting is very good, whereas the composition falls down - but not fundamentally. It's not that the stairs 'lead the eye out of the picture'; it's that there's nothing obvious in the picture to pin it down. To that effect, I would replace the bicycle with a better model (search 'Zippo' in the freestuff here), give it a bold colour to contrast with the pastels of the scene, and bring it forward slightly to make it less symmetrical around the window and more toward the 'two-thirds' ideal location. Imagine the image 'thumb' with such a strong key focus, and I believe it would make sense. Once that basis is there, improving the larger image becomes merely an exercise in attention to detail. More randomness in the textures and the models and the layout, and it would 'arrive'. Having a human figure just peeking out of a doorway in the background (or some such) would reward the eye for its 'outward' inclination, and be the icing on the cake.
pakled posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 8:47 PM
actually, 'pangalacticgarglebaster' is one of the stock mats under 'waters', ain't it?..;)
I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit
anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
drawbridgep posted Sat, 14 August 2004 at 9:21 PM
@PJF - Just had to thank you for your eloquent comment. Well, presented and rational and probably all very valid.
The bike was the first I found and I do have a reluctance to make a model that I didn't create the star of the show. Hence the muted colours of it. When (if) I get more proficient with modelling, I hope that I will be able to create my own models. It was the last thing I put in and really an afterthought.
I like your point about thumbnails. Very true and a good reason for us to post slightly smaller images. (as mentioned in another thread)
You also kind of mention a lack of a focal point. Again that's true to a degree. but I wanted the alley itself to be the focus rather than one thing in it. If anything, then the nearest doorway should have been the focus and I maybe should have concentrated more on that part. Maybe that's why I put the bike in, since I knew something was amiss.
As for a human figure. Another great idea, but that means resorting to Poser and again I lack the skill at the moment to produce a figure that doesn't look like a shop dummy and I think that would have detracted from the picture. The other option would have been 2d insertion. But then we're getting into the realm of mixed media/collage art rather than Bryce, which was my intention. So yes, all very good points and let down only by my lack of experience and skill.
In the end it really comes down to the fact that I took this as a lighting exercise. Trying to create a harsh brilliant sunlight contrasting against deep dark shadows. And I'm really happy with that at least. Of course, it's impossible for any outsider to see what my intention was. So as with all art, the question is posed by the artist, but the answer lies with the viewer.
Forgive me if this contradicts itself or makes no sense at all. I'm currently the wrong (or right) side of a bucket of vodka.
p.s. Pangalacticgargleblaster is infact a rather potent drink and was invented by part time president of the Universe, Zaphod Bebblebrox.
roobol posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 1:45 AM
Tjohn, thanks for the heads up. Apparently, some people can see the image, others cannot and I havent the foggiest what I did wrong. But I'm getting some comments there, mostly on the atmosphere.
Mahray posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 1:50 AM
"Drawbridge wanted to create a piece of artwork. But he had to resort to models that someone else built to create it. Textures that someone else produced. And if he only ever uses Bryce, that's how he'll always have to operate."
Grrrr!!!!!
Don't know about Drawbridge, but personally I make every model I use myself, mostly from booleans in Bryce. I will post this over there as soon as I can register (for some reason I'm missing the confirmation email...)
Edit - Rant over, feeling much relieved. Very nice pic, btw :)
Message edited on: 08/15/2004 02:03
Come visit us at RenderGods.
Ignore the shooty dog thing.
Incarnadine posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 9:19 AM
I remember reading somewhere, that the art directors are much more concerned with the quality of the vision than with what tool was used to make that vision. This was based on the logic that you can train an artist to use any tool, but you can't train someone to have vision. My bryce skills have stood me well in moving to C4D in my opinion. The only real difference is in the addition of more controls/tools to speed things along that we have to work around in bryce. The scene composition and lighting principles are universal and photography has helped there as well. As a further thought, zandar's crit is the type of crit I would love to receive on my works and should be a model for us all to follow. Richard
Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!
drawbridgep posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 10:41 AM
Quote - "I'm thoroughly sick of dealing with Bryce people who insist they are maligned and unappreciated geniuses at even the slightest criticism." He's "dealing" with Bryce people? 2nd quote - "And if it rankles you. Ignore me. If it rankles DrawBridge, then don't ask for people's thoughts unless you're prepared to recieve it." Did I say in that forum that it rankles me? @Drac - Here boy ... KILL!
drawbridgep posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 1:14 PM
You know my little thread over there is 2nd highest in the comments and in the top 5 for views. Not bad exposure I'd say. :-) And just noticed some other guy has submitted a picture that's amazingly similar to one I did a while back. He hasn't said what he used to create it though. Interesting to see what comments he gets. Not a lot of info in his profile. SO I'd guess he's probably a clone or something. ;-)
shadowdragonlord posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 1:49 PM
I think that any kind of critique should be properly communicated, and anyone who spells defense, "defenCe", should probably not be taken too seriously. Aside from that line of spew, I really do enjoy having some of the great philosophical minds available for me interact with. PJF, you often communicate with near-perfect precision, and are very rarely offensive at all. I love reading your posts. Incarnadine and Drawbridgep and everyone, I'm glad I can come to 'Rosity and share ideas with all of you... Elitism exists in nearly all walks of life. Even pointing a finger at an elitist makes you become that which you despise. Degrading others only degrades oneself, as we all share the basic root humanity. Call me a shroomhead, but lately I've felt very close to that, "WE", that we call humanity. You are all part of me, and I part of you. It's ingrained in our very cell-structure. Imagine if a few of our blood cells sat around berating each other instead of delivering precious nutrients and oxygen...? "There's no secret to balance, you just have to feel the waves." - Darwi Odrade
drawbridgep posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 2:05 PM
Well, it's a UK site and us Brits do spell it defence. Although we say defensive, so you're probably right anyway. As for the rest.. couldn't agree more.
shadowdragonlord posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 2:23 PM
Aye, it's not that you British people spell it defence, but to defence is to remove a gatelike structure, isn't it?!?!? Or perhaps to un-duel? (grins)
Angela252 posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 2:53 PM
Well I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I go to the above mentioned place and I can't find any kind of gallery or place where people post works to be commented on. Was really hoping to see what Drawbridge and Zhann posted and what was said. Anyone got a direct link? Thanks
Redfeather posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 2:54 PM
Ahhh Bea Ive heard this an only made it through 1 1/2 before I found myself licking a wall in a back ally somewhere...PJF, interesting test one I think Ill start useing soon (just as soon as I figure out how to make thumbnails I know I need a post render software like photoshop just havent broke down an bought one yet). Shadowdragonlord if your a shroomhead then so am I cause you have a great point. Its funny sometimes how balance and ones perspective changes that which we r looking at or involved with.
When I first started trying to create anything with this program I had thought that it was a limited, useless, unimaginitive, weak, program that really had no potential what so ever. I had wanted to use something (to quote someones earlier thought) more expensive cause expense ment better right....WRONG!!!!! then I ran into 'Rosity thanxs to a good friend. my perspective changed. Now even though I have C4D, and Maya (the ple version) to experiment with, I still come back to Bryce just because its a great program an (I hate to admit it) the others r just more complicated. For what I intend to do I dont feel that the more expiensive programs make me a better artist. I can do with Bryce the same things with less headache (minus the garggleblasters) that I can do with the others. Guess personal preference comes into play here as well. Thought becomes words becomes action. becarefull your thoughts because they can lead to thoughtless actions (or perspectives)
Message edited on: 08/15/2004 15:01
Zhann posted Sun, 15 August 2004 at 5:56 PM
Attached Link: http://forum.computerarts.co.uk/
@ Angela252, take the link and go to 'Forums' go down to where it lists 'Exposure' take that link to get into the forum, if you can't then you will have to 'register' with the site and then you will be able to read and post replies as well.....Bryce Forum Coordinator....
Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...
Gog posted Mon, 16 August 2004 at 4:11 AM
I've been using the CA forums since before I joined here (in fact it was pmoores posting links to here that got me to come visit rendo) Much as some debates eternally re-occurr here, the 'low end' versus high end apps is one of the CA regular talks. Most of the long term regulars such as Inkworm, Morphim, Epoxy, BreinMeister, Poppy, KitKat, Blaufeld, are a good bunch of people, usually with good advice.
----------
Toolset: Blender, GIMP, Indigo Render, LuxRender, TopMod, Knotplot, Ivy Gen, Plant Studio.
blaufeld posted Mon, 16 August 2004 at 4:19 AM
thank you for including me in the "good bunch of people"... but I've started to post just the other day... Perhaps there is another Blaufeld there? :)
Gog posted Mon, 16 August 2004 at 7:38 AM
There was certainly a blaufeld there when I started 5 years ago, a bit of a max expert gave me lots of great advice, I guess he must have left and been replaced, by yourself :). Many regulars left when they switched off the autologin function, just too lazy to type in their name and password...
----------
Toolset: Blender, GIMP, Indigo Render, LuxRender, TopMod, Knotplot, Ivy Gen, Plant Studio.
blaufeld posted Mon, 16 August 2004 at 8:32 AM
Oh. Understood. :)