OK, I'm back.

I've tried to show restraint in these forums, for far too long. I've "played dumb" in a deliberate attempt to reduce the chance of antagonising people, but to no effect.
The hostility shown in these threads are indeed, now starting to border on being malicious. I got an automatic email, informing me that draculaz had posted in my thread at DAZ, I was also informed of a new thread started by him at Renderosity - well I just had to check them out.

So anyway, I read this thread:

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=6724&highlight=prorender

...and then, this one:

http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1881458

...and I came to the conclusion that I no longer want to be any part of the "so called" Renderosity community. Not being content with his rant's on DAZ as well as Renderosity, draculaz ALSO feels the need to make PJF (an honest and very adept contributor), look unbeneficial.

According to drac's remark, PJF's EXTENSIVE post's, INFORMATIVE demonstrations, and SUPERBLY written advice, count for nothing on Renderosity.

I'm sorry, but that HAS to rank as the most PATHETIC and UNGRATEFULL remark I've ever seen on Renderosity. Now, if Peter is still prepared to post after such I remark, then consider yourselves lucky - 'cos he's got more patience with the place than I have.

Actually, I'm GLAD that drac made that remark.

-Why?

...because it's a PERFECT example of the CLIQUE community that resides at Renderosity. That remark is your PROOF - need I say more - or is there anyone here, how can HONESTLY say that remark was fair?

-no? good - I thought not.

Think that's bad? - It's made even worse by the fact that AgentSmith LOCKED that thread, not allowing PJF to RIGHTFULLY and JUSTIFIABLY defend himself.

-ahhhhhh, what's the matter, was a CLIQUE member about to be fed the fact's, by one of the members here that actually DO know what they're talking about.

There IS a CLIQUE, and I have an "interesting" post prepared, just WAITING to be posted if anyone even attempt's to suggest otherwise - I've had enough.

Congratulations, drac, you just DERAILED the Bulls**t express - and ruined the chances of all it's passengers in the process.

Over.

PS: Better LOCK this thread - quick, before someone actually get's a chance to defend themself.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

So what?

No PRO RENDER?

Gosh, we've only seen two or three renders of it. Impressive renders, I might add - but nothing more. No details of the technique used ore some details of it.

You have an "interesting" post prepared and - when I understand you right - don't want to post it anymore.

Well, ok.

Nothing loosed, nothing gained. Back to normality, unless somebody really invent something cool.

I love this community, and I also love Dracs postings. I've learned so much about Bryce, Global Illumination, HDRI and texturing techniques here. And why? Because some valuable people here post really effective things and tutorials, and not only promises. They SHARE. They don't try to market their ideas, they simply post it.

And that's quite more effective than promising something and talking about it several weeks without coming to something we all can have use of.

Sorry for my harsh words.

Pumeco - if you have something to offer, then offer it. I am sure that many, many people would love you for it.

If you have nothing to offer besides of "promises", please stay calm until you have really to offer something. Everything else leads to make the people tired. If you advertise, there is a time you have to fulfill these advertises.

Message edited on: 08/20/2004 16:55

Message edited on: 08/20/2004 16:57

Ducks(As to not get hit by the mud)

http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1881458&Form.sess_id=17417271&Form.sess_key=1093040409 Post 24. I think everyone should read this post. It kinda sums up a lot. And helps get rid of confusion, for me at least.

I strongly protest that the people of this community are called a CLIQUE !!!

They are 'IDIOTS' sometimes with a strange sense of humor :-) But most of all it's a bunch that is helping anyone in every way they can, and a lot of newcomers to the program benefit A LOT from there expertise!

Real contribution is what counts here and that 'CLIQUE' never puts up smokescreens for anyone!

So Pumeco, I just suggested otherwise and think I am now entitled to the posting you've had prepared for me!

Willem

Message edited on: 08/20/2004 18:08

Er... Just posting so I can get update bots on this thread. So just ignore me.

---------
Phillip Drawbridge
Website
Facebook

What? Did someone say something?

No, but I expect they will.

---------
Phillip Drawbridge
Website
Facebook

Not me, I didn't hear or see anything.

CLIQUE COMMUNITY!!! WHERE!!! (currently looking around the room) First lets tone this down a hair or more. take a breath...Now since Ive started posting here I have learned by leaps and bounds. When Ive had a question it gets answered. (thanx to Folypro, Drawbridgep, ect) Now then as far as Ive seen from this form and any others on the net misunderstandings breed like rabbits among there users. to post a thread complaining someone didnt get the chance to defend themselvs and to go into meltdown shortly there after shows a serious lack of thought (not saying you dont think however your exicution leaves much to be desired). If PFJ really wants to defend themselves then Y not start a new thread? Y do you have to start with bargin in, start throughin mud, muck, an SH** at whoever for whatever!?! MRDODOBIRD made some excellent points sure drac is one of the more outspoken ppl thats just the way he is from what Ive seen and to transpose his personality onto the intire community is not only as stereotypical and eliteist (hate itwhen the figures type faster than the brain can spell lol)as your screamin we r your making assumtions and not very good ones about the rest of us. Now Ive found PFJ work and info inlighting the tutes informative and yes I would think they count for something but YOUR WEEKINING HIS STANCE in any defence of himself not helping anything. Now you have an " INTERESTING POST" well lets see it...I certanly hope its better thought out and better delivered than your inital post in this thread. P.S. have a nice day :)

I dont get it? that makes no sence to me.Even if it is released at other sites,it will make it here one way or another, even if you sold it.You cant pick and choose either downloaders of your freebies, or customers(if its sold).And because its all preset MAT,sky,and render settings,at some point the "secrets" of pro-render will be let out in a tutorial by someone. Also, you never defend yourself,and sometimes act "dumb" when asked stuff.I think that is what makes people a little miffed.You have shown renders,so you obviously have some bryce skills,but then act like you cant explain it for some reason.annoucing it well before you can give the files out seemed a little bad too.oh well.

I eat babies.

Pumeco... It is very evident to me now that you are a new baby to the Bryce community. You have no real idea what the Bryce Community is all about. I've been a member for many years at just about every internet Bryce Community there is ( or was ). And there are all sort and types of people, all in their own way contribute to the cause ( to help one another to learn, by sharing their experience, knowledge or what ever ). So somebody's been criticizing your baby..... If it's all you built it up to be you have nothing to worry about.... I think it high time you put up.... show us what you have. So what do you say...let the Community decide.

Stephen Ray

resistence only begets resistence, and it's futile. It gathers no fruit & does not feed Vol.

"Persevere & Overcome", because in the end this world does not exist... It's all about you!
(geez if I keep this up it'll seem as if my cheese has slipped off my cracker)

Simply: Do what you're going to do. Period.

Message edited on: 08/20/2004 19:57

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple

If I ever have any information about a different way to set up parameters in files to use in Bryce that is worth sharing, I will share it with people here for free. No teasing. No hype. If I ever make anything that I feel is worth selling, I will do that, too. No teasing. No hype. Under the word "Renderosity" at the top of this page are the words "Art Community". I believe in this. Are we a "clique" here, in this Forum? Actually I don't think so. But we are a community. Anyone who tried to tell anyone with a Renderosity membership who posts here to go away, they're not welcome here, would get the following reactions: Who put you in charge? LMAO! Cut it out, all are welcome here. But, anyone who posts here has to face the fact that some people are probably going to disagree with you. That's not the same thing at all. That's because everyone has their own opinions. Sometimes individuals go too far and get too personal. This is why AgentSmith locks threads. The main reason as far as I can tell. I've never seen him do that when I wouldn't have done the same if I were in his shoes. There's a lot of love between Drac and me here, LOL. But does that mean we always agree? WHA HA HA HA HA HA! Sorry, but if anyone remembers our first encounters here there was a bit of friction, to put it mildly. But there was, finally, a mutual respect. Don't give up on us yet. We can seem a bit over the top in our criticism at times. But we are just as strong with our praise when we feel it is deserved. We have one thing in common here, that makes us a community. We love Bryce. That's the reason we're here. That is the common bond that keeps us coming back here. We share our lives, our ups, our downs, our families, our pets, our humor, our anger, our happiness, our deep sadness etc., with each other. But only because we all love Bryce. We would not be here otherwise. I cannot condemn this entire community for the actions of a few. I value each and every one of you, no matter whether I agree with you or not. You have the right to express yourself. I only ask that you try to remember that everyone else has that right, too. You don't have to agree with everyone, but you should have the strength of character to respect them. John (Steps down from soapbox)

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy

Mrdodobird,

I may be wrong, but did you read the WHOLE thread?

I find it strange that you point-out post 24, when in fact the problem lies in post 29.

You either agree with this - or you don't, so please, yes or no?

As far as the AgentSmith statement goes, I was NOT suggesting that he locked the post to prevent PJF from posting. I was merely pointing-out that, because he did, Peter never got the chance to do so. I hated that, because it's similar to what happened to me over a DAZ a while back, and it's an infuriating state of affairs.

In hindsight, I suppose that AgendSmith could well have been protecting me from the flames, but from the very start of my postings here, I've never been protected from anything, so that's simply something I never thought I'd get;

-now that's fine by me, because I don't WANT to be protected from anything. I'm just as capable of defending myself online, as I am in real life.

AgentSmith,
I hope you don't take-heart to what I posted. Yes - I am annoyed because you locked that thread - and yes - PJF could allways start a new thread (if he'd wanted to). But I just could'nt see the point in locking that thread - at THAT particular stage. After what happened to me at DAZ, it kinda started the alarm bells ringing, so I apologise for any misunderstanding.

I've always had the need to defend PRO-RENDER with restraint - and that's not been an easy task. Also, just like you Mrdodobird, I HATE it when people are walked upon - and I'll stand by my word, when I say that dracs short remark to PJF, sure looks like a case of being (undeservedly) walked upon.

Which brings me to draculaz. Now, as hard as you might find this to believe, I also like reading his post's - I like 'em a lot. There's no doubt that he livens-up the threads with his character - and the way in which others play along with that character have brought a LOT of smiles to my face. But the thing is, I kinda feel like a destitute child at a toy shop window, when I read some of the threads here. In other words, I can only sit back and watch, and "laugh in silence" while the rest of you play. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to post - but did'nt, for fear of a "brush-off".

Just a couple of examples are:

1: I wanted to post in drawbridgep's thread about his "alley" pic. - because it was good, and I don't like people who pull Bryce down.
-but I did'nt.

2: I wanted to post in Ornlu's thread - just to say an introductory "hi there!".
-but I did'nt.

The list goes on, but you see what I'm saying? Now, if draculaz had made his feelings about PRO-RENDER clear, and left it at that - then I would just see that as personal opinion, and be perfectly OK with it. But then comes a second post (in a targeted NEW thread), aimed at PRO-RENDER, which I was'nt too happy about - but I let it go. But now there's a third AND a fourth post, which to my mind, serve to do nothing but belittle me. All I can say is that draculaz, like everyone else here, is entitled to his opinion, so why does he need to make his opinion heard, again, and again, and again. That to me is malicious, or at the very least, BORDERING on being so.
I'd like to have been able to get along with drac, but I don't think he's ever going to let that happen - and that's a shame.

Now then, about PJF; I really don't see how my standing by him, could "weaken his stance". Peter has no problems in either presenting, or defending himself in these forums. I'm quite aware that he does not need me to fight his battles for him. And I'm also aware that he may well NOT have wanted to defend himself on that occasion. But, that's not what I was doing - I was NOT defending him, I was offering support in a matter that I believe warranted it.

TwistedBolt,
I think you may have linked to the wrong thread or something. What you have posted appears to be nothing to do with this topic. I may be wrong, but...

I had read upto post 12, when I made this reply.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

hats off to tjohn.......well said @PUMECO-Disregard everything I say and post.......I'm crazy, I'm sure someone can back me up on that.I was just trying to tell you why some of the people get crazy about stuff 'round here.

Message edited on: 08/20/2004 20:27

I eat babies.

I think tjohn has the gist of the whole pro-render problem. We have seen for WEEKS promises and "look what I can do" but absolutely NO details on how it's done. What settings are used? Lighting? Materials? etc. We have seen zilch.

Clique?! Far from it. We SHARE even the smallest knowledge and shortcuts on how something is done or something new we discovered. We don't drag people along for weeks promising something and then drop it.

Message edited on: 08/20/2004 20:35

land sakes..mebbe we are a tight bunch, but look, they even let me in..;) I've been here since Dec '01, and am a relative newbie to some of the folks around here.
I like the alleyway scene, it looked fine to me. I know sometimes it's hard to convey a nuanced attitude. I'm sure the comments shouldn't be taken as a personal attack. However, if they were, it's a cost of being around here. From what I've been told, we're a relatively benign bunch (you think we're tough, you shoulda seen the OT forum, or the D&C one before that..or even some of the existing forums now..;)
There are some of us who take the 'constructive' part of the criticism to heart here, so don't feel left out..you're welcome to stay or go, we don't hold anyone against their will..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

I'm in a clique!!! Drac is my spokesman!!!

I can't understand this thread. Last time I checked, everyone had a right to their own opinions. There was a thread a while ago titled "There must be something special" which concluded that the Bryce forum users all have a special bond of friendship and respect. I tried to dig it up but couldn't find it.

By dropping Pro-Render, you're only feeding the flames of 'where is it?' You do understand this right? ICM is right, finish what you start, and you wouldn't be wasting peoples time a 2nd time.

Well...in all honesty, i'm going to have to agree with Drac on this one. PJF, where the hell did you get that True Ambience was involved? Not once have i seen Pumeco give an answer that was even remotely "straightforward." The only thing I'VE seen from him is "You guys need this because i say you do and i don't think any of you can do good renders without it." And i still don't understand what the hell PRO-RENDER is. Nowhere has he made it clear EXACTLY what it consists of. materials, settings, whatever, he's never really explained himself. Throughout the whole thing i've seen posts by him, arrogant, and worded in a very VERY elementary manner. And this new thread doesn't stray from that path of stupidity one bit. There is no justifiable right for PJF to defend himself in public. In a situation like that, AgentSmith ABSOLUTELY did the right thing. If PJF wants to defend himself, he can do it in PRIVATE MESSAGING. There is no reason to leave an argument out in the open for the rest of the community to take part in. If there is a problem, the two of them can work it out in private, as it should be done. You, however, felt the need to come cause MORE problems. And you insult the entire community in the process. Well done, excellent display of ignorance. Maybe if you had marketed your little "PRO-RENDER" more intelligently none of these problems would have come up. I, for one, am glad that you are discontinuing the production of PRO-RENDER. If i'm to create a great render, it WON'T be because of your little package. If i'm to create a great render, it will be due to my hard work and talent to the art, not because i used someone elses techniques. The problem here, Pumeco, was that you came in and tried to disrupt the way we work our art. You tried to tell everyone that YOUR WAY WAS THE BEST. Don't be so ignorant. You show up in an ARTISTS community and immediately downgrade the way we work our medium, and expect a hero's welcome. So when did you say you were leaving? I'll help you pack.

"pumeco" Who Cares what other People Think...If they piss you off enough then you find out where they live and you go and Kick Their "Cliche"Arses...OR Keep going on Pro Render and Dont let a few folks get ubder your Skin.... CLASS Now you Behave or there will be NO Recess...And NO cookies and Milk..

I already had my cookies. And my milk. And if you take my recess away, i'll shoot spitwads at you for the next three months. Poot-Thwack

Ahhhhh Damn....I forgot about da Spit Wads,As I drag the Little Snotty Spoiled Rich Kids Fingernails across the ChalkBoard...Hahahahaha

I, for one have never been part of the supposed "clique". Nor do I wish to be. I have gained great knowledge from many on this site. Also learned to respect the work of all that contribute. Yes, some of the comments and critiques are a load of crap. But that load of crap is that individuals "opinion", and deserves to be respected not fought over. Many fine artists reside here, and to stop that Artistic flow of opinion and critique is pointless. If you don't respect it or like it, take your ball and go home. Like my motto : "Lead, Follow or get the hell out of the way !!"

markostimpy..................

Mark S. Popham
http://www.markostimpy.com
markostimpy@gmail.com

I was under the impression this was a cult.

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

Wow, this has been quite a week for me; first,getting in the Hot 20 for the first time,then,finding out I'm in a clique!!! As Swade might say-"I'm really chuffed"!

Offical urbandictionary.com definition of "chuffed." ________________________________________________________ chuffed When a man takes a woman analy. I "Chuffed" her. ________________________________________________________ Something is definintly wrong here.

blushes Ermmm, perhaps then "chuffed" is not quite the word I'm looking for! Thank you for the definition and the source! I should have looked that word up first. Actually, I'm feeling quite happy,lol.

Anytime. I've been using the source ever since a friend pointed out to me what "fo' shizzle m'nizzle" meant. You'd be surprised.

LOL, this is insane! Pumeco, as Tjohn says: Promises, promises it dont mean a thing. Evidently you were of the mind that the hardcore, time tested Brycians here were gonna come running to your offering of empty promises and part with their their hard earned money to shower you with. Truth be told, you got greedy and thought everyone here was an easy target for your capitalistic adventures and now that they didnt pan out, youre all upset and have decided to blame your failure on the Renderosity Brycian Clique. That was your first mistake, your second was to convict us all for what certain individuals said (rightfully or wrongly) placing us all under the same umbrellabig mistake. We are all independent and respectful of each other, not always agreeing with each other and beholding to different beliefs but certainly not the clone of each other as you would have everyone believe. In this respect you have lost credibility and sense of responsibility with this community. We were tolerant when you pushed your way in here with a new beginning for Bryce, now you are taking liberties with our individualities and calling us cliquish. I quite frankly think you have met more than your match here. You have bitten off more than you can chew by pointing general fingers. You are always welcomed here but dont try to sell us the Brooklyn Bridge and then get pissed when we dont buy your pandering. Your best bet was to confront those people who you felt were detouring your efforts and not bring it to where everyone was to blame but you.

Jeeze, I wish 'people' would leave 'people' alone. Being (maybe)a lot older than most of the members here, all I've seen from the start is wholesale attack, for no reason. What was Pumeco's big crime? He posted that he was working on something that could prove to be exciting, he wondered if he'd be able to sell it, how much would the market bear, some description of what it might do. His big crime seems to be that no-one here knows him. So? What's the big deal? Why can't you all have a bit of patience? What gives anyone the right to go on the attack just because someone is working on something other than an image? If you keep on saying something will fail it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, 'cos it sure as s*** will! IF PRORENDER NEVER COMES INTO BEING LET'S BLAME THE NAY-SAYERS RATHER THAN PUMECO............

Whoa. I agree to nearly every exact thing he said. "We are all independent and respectful of each other, not always agreeing with each other and beholding to different beliefs but certainly not the clone of each other as you would have everyone believe." Once upon a time, Pakled suggested I change to roof texture. I did not agree, so I did not. As far as I know, our respect for each other has not diminished. Truly excellent speech, Quest.

So basically everyone is saying pumeco should put his money where his mouth is, and either put up or shutup....... I was under the impression this was a 'Bryce ward'....btw way everyone here is entitled to their opinion, and entitled to do their Bryce the way they want, which some have forgotten... And I still don't understand what Pro-Render is, as no specifics were forcoming in any of the threads, no settings, no renders, nada....so I'll just assume it's another 'vapor ware'.....

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

I just want to say I never said: "Promises, promises it dont mean a thing." I did mention hype and teasing, though. :^) In the eighties, I read an advertisement in a magazine for Amiga computer users for a product that was in the works that sounded like something I would very much want to own. I'm sorry I can't recall the name of it or exactly what type of program it was, but as is said, "I've slept since then." The ad mentioned that if you prepaid, you could get the program for $30 (I can remember the money, LOL), if you waited until the general release it would be more than $100. Well, I sent in my money and waited. And waited. And waited. The program never appeared. The company that was developing it went broke. I never saw my $30 again. That was when I first learned the term "vaporware". I was skeptical of Pro-Render when it was first announced, because there was a lot about what it would be able to do, but nothing to see. And it was an unfinished product. Then there were a series of visual examples of what it would be able to do, most of which I found impressive. And Pumeco announced the basic Pro-Render would be FREE. A very nice gesture, I thought, and I wrote around that time in the thread that I felt we should all wait and see. I haven't changed my mind about that, Pumeco. I would still like to try out your Pro-Render. Really. I haven't read the threads at Daz you mention, but apparently they weren't very kind to you there. But most people here have been. Most of us haven't even posted anything about you or Pro-Render by my count. I would even say that most of the Bryce users at Renderosity rarely post anything in this Forum at all, judging by the number of names I see in the Gallery that I've never seen in the Forum. A lot of us are impatient. A lot of us are younger than you may think, some are actually under 16. Time passes slower when you're young, and accelerates with each passing year. At nearly 51 (August 27) my days last about an hour now, LOL. For your future reference, whether you plan to give up on us or not, I would recommend the following: If you have plans for developing any type of product, don't mention it publicly until you have it in a form that can be downloaded and used. Then people who are impatient won't be waiting, becoming irritable, beginning to wonder if they're being strung along, etc. I suspect that some of the worst invective aimed at you was more about disappointment on their part than hatred of you. I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt. That part was never necessary, really. As I said before, I hope you will not give up on us yet. And guys, ease up on Pumeco, show him what we're made of here, OK? Thanks, John

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy

tjohn - I'm guessing that by now he knows what we're made of ;^) If you bash someone every time they come up with an idea, pretty soon they'll realize it's best to just give up. PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

======================= Mrdodobird, I may be wrong, but did you read the WHOLE thread? I find it strange that you point-out post 24, when in fact the problem lies in post 29. You either agree with this - or you don't, so please, yes or no? ======================== Yes, I read the whole thread. I just personally thought everyone should read post 24, since PJF i felt gave a fairly informative responce, covering most everything, actually QUOTING other messages, which always helps me. As for a "agree with this - or you don't" Umm... I'm with ya on some things, disagree on others. I think some people are just sounding mean (post 22. No offense, but you come across really...mean. I hope I didn't misenteurpret the message.) And I agree with you on many things, but on Renderosity being a clique, and AS shutting the thread on purpose, I have a tendency to disagree. Yes I did, but while you found As for post 22..... um.... That kinda sounded really mean. I don't get it. Sorry, but I don't. Hmmmm

Someone said Cookies!!! http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=742653 Blatant self-promotion

Come visit us at RenderGods.

Ignore the shooty dog thing.

I'm on a short holiday and internet access is limited and difficult (why am I even looking in here? ;-)). All I'll say for now is 'shitty death!' (one of my favs).

pumeco ignore the nay sayers, release Pro-Render & prove them all wrong. Humble pie is always best served Hot ;)

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Hi Len..I'm patient and getting even more patient each time I've to wait...LOL! The longer the wait, sound like PRO RENDER is getting better each time. I know its a lot of work writing the manual but a good one takes time. Take it from here and release PRO RENDER when you are ready. Thanks again for what you been doing.

Maybe I missed it.. but.. is there any hope of this continuing? Last I understood it, it's a scrapped thing now... I hope he releases it... Someone said they didnt need PR because they understand Bryce well enough not to need it. I for one am clueless on most of Bryce's functions, and ANY tool/preset etc that someone is willing to create and give away is awesome to me. I know that the forum here is always very helpful, and I will be able to "master" bryce, given enough time (yeah, right.. master LOL) But until those years come and go... a short cut like PR is a welcome thing IMO. And by reading some of the other posts, I am not the only one who feels that way. I understand, somewhat, why the older, more experienced users are a little bent out of shape over the way PR has been presented. But, please realize that this Bryce user looks to any and all things like this with great anticipation (read impatience). Im one of the supporters of this, and hope that Len will continue with PR. I also hope that all of this doesn't ruffle any one else's feathers, as it seems to me there is plenty of that around already. I think the accepted tag line here is: "Keep Rendering" ... So, Keep Rendering, and Len... You have my support. Lee Evans

It's always tricky to get the intent of a post without having the face to face interaction. People can hide behind their keyboards with only the flames to worry about. So with that in mind, don't take this post as siding on either side, or with one person or another. But just from someone who's tired and wants a resolution... It seems to me there are a few main possibilites: Pro-render gets released, it's all everyone hoped for an is a great benefit to all Brycedom. And the hype will die down and we get on with our lives. Pro-Render gets released, it's not all everyone hoped for. Some use it, others ignore it. And the hype will die down and we get on with our lives. Pro-Render production gets cancelled and it doesn't get released. We carry on with Bryce, waitng for version 6. And the hype will die down and we get on with our lives. Pro-Render production carries on without it being released and the hype carries on and on. Len, you, and only you have the power to stop this whole thing by either releasing it or scraping it, but please do one or the other and do it soon.

---------
Phillip Drawbridge
Website
Facebook

Ok I've finally had enough
Call this a flame call it a bashing call it what you want
I've had these suspicions for awhile, and now I'm voicing them.

Pumeco.
Post 29, Yes I agree with it.

{especially if that knowledge is inspired by information already freely exchanged in the community...}

And you know it is .

{Once the knowledge, files and presets are released, they (or close variations) will very likely be openly exchanged - perfectly legally - within the community (especially given the above).}

That's right you have no legally copyright, on br5. files.

And after looking at some of your, examples. I'm taking serious consideration, that the base of your materials, came from materials
that were downloaded right from the Renderosity free stuff area.

Personally I think you are fairly new to 3D graphics. You have an arrogance about you. I say this because of these post by you.

{There's an myth with Bryce 5, regarding reflections on transparent materials that have no reflective property set. This is something that members see as a problem caused by the use of TA (True Ambiance). However, the reality is that it's not actually a problem, and it's presence is not caused by TA. The cause is actually refraction, as my test strip above demonstrates.}

I have never heard of this myth. Has anyone else?
Out of all the treads in all the Bryce forums on the web I can't recall any Bryce Users ( members ) mentioning or complaining about this.
Guess no one else really knows what refraction is.

massage 134
http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1822731

If you take the 2 spectral channels ( set to 0.00 ) out of the bottom images. You have the same thing as the top images minus your environment rig ( lighting ) Pro Render or whatever.

massage 135

So Bryce primitive and Boolean don't work properly in Pro Render...

{Well, as many of us know, imported geometry under true ambiance has smoothing problems. In fact, smoothing the object in Bryce 5 will have no effect on it's smoothness under TA whatsoever }

Wrong, do you even know how the smooth option works in Bryce. It is totally a render effect. And your having problems with Boolean in Pro Render which are render effects to.

So a couple of weeks ago you posted here, there just about everywhere, you were canceling Pro Render ...haha just joking... yea right And now because of the rude and crude draculaz your canceling your so called Pro Render...what a cop out...the truth is if any real Bryce user examines Pro Render the truth will come out.
So my challenge to you is private message Me, draculaz, AS, PJF, Tjohn, BT, Dar, Frogdot...or any 2 experience well known Bryce user, and give them access to Pro Render and all that goes with it. Let them examine it, and tell the rest of the community if your for real or a rip off artist.
So people ask why are some of us so hostile...BECAUSE NOBODY LIKES BEING PLAYED FOR A SUCKER...

If you do this and 2 people with a solid working knowledge of Bryce, well known in the community determine that you have truly discovered something that no one has documented what so ever. I will eat my words
and publicly apologies at every forum on the web that the word Bryce has ever appeared in.

So what do you say Buckaroo...your being called out..... Message edited on: 08/21/2004 11:30

Stephen Ray

I seem t have spilled my cookies an milk...darn it. and I gave the last one to pumico tryin to be a friendly sort o-well.
Nicely put Stephen, I would think that to give it to at least a few ppl with "A solid working knowledge of Bryce" would be an excellent way to put an end to the...um...unrest. I would not be one of those who have a good working knowledge but there are many here that do. all it would take is a couple of unbiased artists and a decent time frame.
And it would seem to me that if Pumeco is interested in rapping this up. It would do much in the way of setteling this.

Message edited on: 08/21/2004 12:09

He, he , right on Stephen !!! I hope he realizes this is not yet another attack, lol. Show me the money !!!!!! :)

Pumeco, although it seems like i'm one of the few i think i understand your decision. I would feel the same. Working on a project real hard and alone thinking it was something special only to find out things like that had been done before and information about it was released for free must have been diffucult allready but you handled it in a very nice way and decided to offer the product for free even after you've hoped you could sell it and even though nobody seemed thankfull for it. After that i felt people continued to bash you and your product and although i understand their side also, they just wanted clarity about what it was, i really do understand why you feel attacked by replies like that. I mean i would feel the same if someone posted a thread about me to talk with other forum members about what bs your product is. I don't know anybody who wouldn't feel attacked. But please finish your product. Don't let them get you down. You had fun making it didn't you? You were enthousiastic about it before this all happened. So please keep on working on it and if you feel this community has treated you in a hostile way provide it somewhere else, like at your own site or a different community where you think people will be happy with your product. I for one think it sounds interesting. Keep your head up Pumeco! (Sorry for any typos or faults, my native language isn't English)

FROM POST 46 ONWARDS: Your responses don't ring true - you have looked at the WRONG post 29 on WRONG thread. Please don't confuse this situation any further, as differences are starting to be settled now I think. Len.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

{ FROM POST 46 ONWARDS: Your responses don't ring true } PROVE IT You read what I have to say...I bet I'm not the only one sick of your BS which is doing nothing but splitting up the Bryce Community.

Stephen Ray

just stop....beep beep....end thread,EnD THr.....Boom!

I eat babies.

OK. I'm pointing out that they've looked at the wrong thread - that's all. Ah well.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

Stephen Ray, I had'nt read your post through, because as soon as I started to, it was obvious that you've got the WRONG thread. And now that I've taken the time to actually read it, the only BS is coming from your direction.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

Actually, really, the one Pumeco's talking about is where Drac says he only cares about your opinion if you have art in your gallery, or something like that. Is it possible you read a different thread? I dunno. Share the love. Eat cookies.

Ok lets see...$29.99 for the Boxing Gloves $5 for the Mouth Pieces(Used on a Budget)$5 for the Bandages and $60 for the Alcohol to drink when YOU GUYS finally realize that what you are fighting over is NOTHING...And as FOR breaking apart the BRYCE Community...It aint going to Happen because of SOMETHING Like this...Bottom line is...WHO CARES...Can I see a Show of hands...?If PRORENDER comes out it comes out,If it is a SHAM then it is...The time is NOW for the Bugging of DAZ not each other,We need to show/Ask them what we need,Not show them how we will react when SOMETHING NEW might be coming out... Ok Reality Check....I for one am going to go and have some FUN...Who wants to join the RENDERING...

I'm done, I've said my piece...words from you mean nothing...it's apparent that no matter how many times I say ( Prove It ) you just don't understand what it means.

Stephen Ray

Agreed. Pro-render is nearly meaningless in the light of DAZ buying Bryce, regardless of the possible techniques. Sorry, Pumeco, but I think you're being very unfriendly about all this. Don't try selling me something that doesn't even exist, I won't buy it. Now back to how much DAZ rules for saving our program! (I hope?!?!)

Pumeco, You are a very detail oriented person. Not everyone here is like that, and make remarks - some rude - without thinking or having an open mind. If you allow PR to be derailed, then they are defeating you. I for one am very interested in Pro Render, and hope you hurry up and crank it out. Some will be mean but I've seen people who didn't like the Matrix Reloaded, Matrix Revolutions . They're not perfect, but those are very cool movies. The Passion of the Christ is a classical painting in motion, and yet some still tried to criticize it - mostly because the Subject is the most controversial Person in history. Release Pro-Render, Pro-Render Xtreme, Hair Base and Skin Base. If people don't like it, they can whine and cry, but you must be happy for your accomplishment. Don't let them defeat you. Ben MessianicArt.com

Pumeco, also, you are too emotionally intertwined with these forums. I was once like this too. Forget about the demeaning "critics". There will always be "critics", but they spend their lives in cynicism, constantly fault-finding, never enjoying life. Release PR, PRX, HB and SB, and ignore those who don't like it. Listen to constructive critiques, your user base, and improve. Perhaps Bryce 6 will further enable you to create some interesting lighting advancements. Just don't let a few naysayers crush your spirit. God bless, Ben

For all we know..DAZ may just be interested in what you doing. It be great that they contact you and have it somewhat integrated it into their newer version of Bryce..gosh!...who knows?

Yes Stephen Ray, ...and I'm done, I've said my piece - and words TO you mean nothing. You posted - I correct you - and you change direction. For your information, and for anyone else for that matter, there's a VERY good reason I can't just give out files to prove things - that's why I post images instead. If you don't like the descriptions I posted - OK! But I suggest that before you start: 1-accusing me of theft 2-derailing accurate demonstrations 3-questioning my ability 4-assuming the extent of my knowledge ...I suggest you get your fact's right. To accuse me of using other peoples materials from the R'osity download area, is to accuse me of theft. I don't need to download anything frome here, DAZ, or anywhere else. I create everything myself, even the TV in the renders was a quickie I modelled for that very reason. I'm a beginner am I? Well, OK if you say so - if 16 years of working with graphics gives beginner status - then yes, OK. I posted the demonstrations in direct response to being ASKED TO DO SO. Because I was TOLD of the problems that could not be overcome. Well, I'm so sorry I even bothered to take the time to demonstrate what was going on - I assumed that's what was wanted. QUOTE:pumeco "Well, as many of us know, imported geometry under true ambiance has smoothing problems. In fact, smoothing the object in Bryce 5 will have no effect on it's smoothness under TA whatsoever." QUOTE:Stephen Ray "Wrong, do you even know how the smooth option works in Bryce. It is totally a render effect. And your having problems with Boolean in Pro Render which are render effects to." LOL God damn it, now I'm really losing face, I'm pretty sure I was right. But hey, congratulations man - let me shake you by the hand. You DO realise that you've just solved the BIGGEST problem with True Ambience - don't you? Personally, I think you don't understand what we were talking about, regarding true ambience and smoothing. Because if you DO understand, I can only assume that there's no such problem for you, and you know something very special indeed. I look forward to seeing how it's done. :-) QUOTE: "do you even know how the smooth option works in Bryce." QUOTE: "Personally I think you are fairly new to 3D graphics. You have an arrogance about you." QUOTE: "And after looking at some of your, examples. I'm taking serious consideration, that the base of your materials, came from materials that were downloaded right from the Renderosity free stuff area." LOL Sorry , but at what point do the members here consider it fair for me to draw the line? - 'cos I just can't tolerate much more bulls**t. I'm preparing a NEW thread to be posted in the next couple of days. It should put an end to the suspicions and accusations once and for all. Len. PS: Thank's to the believers among you, your trust WILL be rewarded.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

( Quote ) I'm preparing a NEW thread to be posted in the next couple of days. It should put an end to the suspicions and accusations once and for all. That's all I want is Proof...that this is a technique you came up with, and not knowledge or information already freely exchanged in the community. I'm not going to argue with you about words like ( serious consideration....3D....imported geometry smooth options ) Believe it or not I take no pleasure or joy in any of this. You posted in this community over 2 months ago. Yet your still dangling your toy over peoples head seeing how high they will jump. ( as this tread is proof of ) Up until a couple of days ago, your treads barley heard from me. And now, until you give me proof that I can test and evaluate for myself, they will not here from me again. If I am wrong I will be the first to announce it. To all members of the Bryce Renderosity Forum, I apologize if I offended any of you. One thing I like about this forum is most people here, do not walk around patting each other on the back telling one another how great they are. When credit is given here, it has been earn and is due. Which tell me it is not a Clique type place.

Stephen Ray

"I'm not going to argue with you about words like ( serious consideration....3D....imported geometry smooth options )" -no, because your mouth got the better of you, and you've just discovered that you were wrong.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

Pumeco... The fact that you didn't render any of your non-ProRender examples with render effects that would be comparable to Pro-Render does indeed make be believe that you are very new to the CG community idea. If you're trying to market something like PRO-RENDER, show us how it's BETTER than the normal Bryce way of acheiving the same effects. Until you can do that without proving to me that you're feeding everyone some serious bullshit, i'm going to believe that you do, in fact, have a VERY limited knowledge of Bryce, how it works, and how the engine can be bent and stressed to create the effects (often much more succesfully than your demonstrations.) And I will continue to "derail accurate demonstrations" until your demonstrations are ACCURATE. Not one thing you've done actually shows the difference between your way of doing it, and the way we've all been doing it. You simply show the difference between your way, and a default bryce render without any of the appropriate effects activated. Grow up.

"...i'm going to believe that you do, in fact, have a VERY limited knowledge of Bryce, how it works, and how the engine can be bent and stressed to create the effects (often much more succesfully than your demonstrations.)" -whatever it is you might be taking, it's f**cking good stuff! "...You simply show the difference between your way, and a default bryce render without any of the appropriate effects activated." -yes, because a DEFAULT Bryce render does not include TA and SOFT SHADOWS (reinstall Bryce and check). I was ASKED, to give THOSE type of comparisons, and that is what I gave. Grow up.

The wait can be horrific, but the outcome can be worse - pumeco 2006

It certainly would be fun to reverse the Opel Blitz up to the gathering, pull up the canvas and let rip with the MG42, but - - too much chance of collateral damage. (and too much holiday perspective rendering this whole thing rather silly) I would like to think that draculaz (or anyone) and I should be able to scratch each other's eyes out without someone else feeling the need to suspend their project. Such a drastic step should be taken entirely in that person's interests and not in my name. I responded to drac's post because I knew Len wasn't around to defend himself due to being focussed on completing PRO-RENDER. I responded with hostility because it was yet another attack based on ignorance. Accusing someone of 'bullshit' is one thing (plus being a personal attack under the TOS, or so I've been told by senior staff here), but such an accusation primed by misinformation is quite another. Having been previously made aware that there are alternative views of the so-called 'bullshit' (plus links to evidence), it behoves a person to investigate the facts rather than continue to spurt vitriolic accusations. That's the kind of hysteria better suited to subjective religious ranting than CGI technique/product discussions; which benefit more from straightforward empirical methodology like - actually reading threads in the Renderosity Bryce forum. With the latter in mind, I'd like to address a question above by Slakker: ++++++++++ "PJF, where the hell did you get that True Ambience was involved?" ++++++++++ I got it from the original PRO-RENDER thread: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1822731 In post 40, I asked, "Does "PRO-RENDER" use True Ambience?" In post 45, pumeco answered, "The PRO-RENDER method uses true ambience..." It wasn't via hell; it was really quite straightforward - I simply read what pumeco wrote. I'm not sorry if that sounds patronising - it's meant to be. You were present in that thread; the facts were there for you to see. The same goes for all the shrieking here. Other than the absolute specifics, Len/pumeco has explained what PRO-RENDER is. If anyone doesn't get it, it's purely down to them. Reading the facts will reassure all but the most desperately insecure that PRO-RENDER is entirely unthreatening, and incapable of "splitting up the Bryce Community".

Forum: Bryce

Subject: PRO-RENDER -DERAILED-