Was the GIRL (DAZ) developed as a competition product for Alexa (3DCommune)?

If you think so, which one do you like the most?

Both were dressed and posed with standard cloth and poses designed by their creators. Girl as everybody knows tries to poke through the dress.

Personally I like Alexa more!!!!!

I don't think GIRL was developed as competition for Alexa. She was created first by Kim Goossens a couple of years ago in Lightwave and was the inspiration for amongst others Alexa. My personal preference is for GIRL. I actually think alexa is ugly by comparison.

I have yet to see a single "female toon" model that I like as much as The Girl. First of all, the Girl was the first. The explosion of "anime / toon" girls we've seen recently was at least 50% inspired by the initial images of The Girl posted in places like CGtalk and others. Second of all... take Koshini for example. Is it just me, or does she always have a "Surprised" look on her face... The others seem to me to be either TOO 'toony', or have a 'toon head on a normal body...

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

They both have toony faces, but Alexa has a pretty 'human' body. They're both fun. Over all I prefer Alexa, though.

No contest... The Girl. She's far superior to most any other "toon" character out there right now.

Tools : 3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=614781&Start=127&Artist=almeidap&ByArtist=Yes

I love GIRL and Alexa, I don't know how to post pictures here but check out some of my earlier gallery post and you will see that Alexa can be un tooned. Here's a link to one of my earlier Red Brigade Alexa figures, this one has two Alexa's and one Sara. I believe if Alexa had the support of the big Gun posters...like Darkwing (awesome renders) and 3dCommune hyped her as much as Girl she would have done a lot better. But in the end...I'm enjoying GIRL so much right now I'd give her a definate edge!

GIRL. I most of the toon figures but GIRL is the best, IMO.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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I'm very biased , Alexa rulz! lol

Seriously though I like them both , and I don't think Alexa is ugly.
They both have different advantages and disadvantages.
Girls macho arms and long fingers seem a bit weird to me , but her expression is great.
There are things I would hope improve on both figures.

My picks would be Girl, and then Neftoon Gal. Wish she had gotten more support. I don't have alexa, but from pics I've seen of the model, I don't like her abs as much. Plus I LOVE the expressions that Girl and Neftoon Gal have. Those make the model.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Oh, and the shoulders.. I hate the shoulders like V3 and Alexa have!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

"Was the GIRL (DAZ) developed as a competition product for Alexa (3DCommune)?" Actually The Girl was first. The others came after I don't have a favorite really but i do like the Girl she's great for pinups.

the girl wasnt developed as competition... it was the inspiration for all the spinoffs that plagued or graced the marketplace - depending on your perspective. it finally got released at daz when they reached an agreement with the creator. honestly, im kindof sick of the whole toon craze, and expecially koshini. but thats just me -- to each his own. cheerio, -gabriel

I kinda like the toon craze, myself. (Actually a balance between toon and reality is best.)

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Actually, if I may wade in, IM(H)O, you can take the "linebacker" out of the running. Alexa is a hands-down winner. G.I.R.L has linebacker shoulders...the very reason I didn't buy her. Nice face but she has to be "photographed" at JUST the right angle. (just my opinion).

As long as we are giving opinions (well, me, anyway), I'm going to offer the cutie I've fallen in love with. The little "string-bean" that she is...well, she's just adorable to me. She sits on my desktop at home and she adorns the "rotating" screen saver at work. And she has the perfect name...Staci.

I like both Alexa and Girl. They both have qualities that I find appealing that can't be found in the other. But my heart goes to Sara, who I'm starting to feel is the underdog in all of this.

edited just to remove a few extra commas.

Message edited on: 08/24/2004 22:45

I think Alexa is a little more realistic without loosing the cartoon appeal.

Girl is the best model EVER. Besides V2. That is all. - Gazzy!

the Girl - because she is the original. I have Alexa too but never used her, her body looks strange.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Girl is the first of the toon figures that had any appeal to me. Koshini was a nice change from NVIATWAS but her face is so ugly (just my perspective and I know many others love her).

My only issue with Girl is her arms. I'd like to be able to morph them to a more slender look. But otherwise she's streets ahead of the rest in terms of appearance.

Message edited on: 08/25/2004 02:48

Alexa is excellent as a crossover between realistic and toon. Her awful shoulders need to be tamed with magnets, but that can be done.
Girl is an excellent mesh with great joints and has a gorgeous face but her body is totally toon and almost impossible to morph out of total toon. In appearance almost totally true to the LW original, an excllent Poserisation.
However she is so stylised that it is very difficult to morph her out of Girlism - the first thing I do with a mesh is make it my own, and Girl is REALLY difficult. The huge shoulders, the tiny waist & hips, the hard-edged breasts.
Sara ver 1 is cute, has a very difficult body and odd, lumpy legs. Free.
Sara 2 has an odd face. Free.
Staci has way too long and skinny legs, but a nice face. Lite ver free.
LaRoo is not bad at all but has a very strange butt.
Maya Doll is marvellous, very malleable. Some small messy bits and idiosyncrasies, but not serious. Free.
Anime Doll as above but not free.
Neftoon Gal is the most successful Girl copy by far.
Lalala is as ugly as sin. Free.
HER is not even close to the original by Pascale - her face is not any good to me. Free.
Aiko looks constantly furious and bitter and has the rather unfortunate Steph 1 body mesh to contend with.
AnimLisa is a fantastic mesh, the best semi-realistic body mesh of them all. A fine crossover body with a slightly awkward anime face, but still nice looking. If you haven't checked her out, do so.

Did I miss anyone? lol
These are of course just my opinions - feel free to have opposite opinions, you're welcome :o)

The order of appearance of figures on the scene has been:
Aiko, Girl(LW), Neftoon Gal, Maya Doll, LaRoo, Anime Doll, Sara 1, Alexa, Lalala, Sara 2, Staci, HER, AnimLisa, Girl.

:] Fish

Message edited on: 08/25/2004 05:16

Where's animlisa at?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Out of the two I would have to pick GIRL, it's all in her eyes which I think are just beautiful. If I had to pick my fav model though AnimeDoll wins everytime - there's no other model as cute as animedoll (but that wasn't the question so GIRL :D).

AnimLisa is in the MP here. She's by Mobius. :] Fish

thanks!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

i had the first version of sara, and thought she was a good ton/comic character (i make distinct view between toon/comic and animemanga such for animedoll...) on the toon department, i think sara is nice anyway :) animelisa really looks nice too, i even think animelisa is one step on each world (comics and manga) and makes a good boundary, but she need more cloth support as many good characters...

"Did I miss anyone? lol" Koshini. I think Koshini v1/v2 are great toon products. VERY easy to work with, they morph decently (actually EXCELLENTLY if you consider the Capsces characters for Koshini are very versitile and unique) and K2 animates extremely well. I think the demand for Toon/Anime characters will only increase. I don't believe this is just a "fad" or Poser phase the scene is experiencing. Reason: money. Toon characters sell good for merchants, but far beyond that, they can make great money for artists/animators... there's much more of a demand for toon/anime style characters in things such as real-world animation (outside of Hollywood FX) and web-based flash animation than there is for realistic human figures. People who want a toon mascott for their website design will pay a respectable amount of cash, or people who are interested in making flash cartoons or even video games will seek out these figures. Toon figures are MUCH easier to animate and appeal more to the masses (the non-3D-critical eyes) than realistic ones do. Just look at the popularity of anime in Japan for a reference. It's BIG business. The Poser-world is just starting realizing the massive earning potential this stuff has for artists. Just my 2 pennies. ;-)

Tools : 3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

I agree, Maxx. Poser originally was intended for "realistic" characters, but with every new character type, it expands it's possibilites. The realistic characters have been done to death, and there are more clothing options for them then anyone can even remember. Characters like the millenium dragon, the Heavies, The Power Pixie, The toonimals, Shazam, Neftoon gal, Koshini Gang, ect all bring more to the table, and make poser more diverse, and in some cases, much more "fun". I think that's why I've grown into the community on the last year.. Koshini started it for me, because there weren't just boring "normal" characters.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Absolutely my thoughts too, Gareee. Characters like GIRL are just a pleasure to animate. Her facial expressions rival ANYTHING that can be done on V3 or the realistic characters for Poser. Plus, with your morph package (Grrrl) and a little skill in Zbrush, one can customize GIRL to no end. The same holds true for most of the other toon/anime characters too. I know the ultimate goal of most 3D artists here is "realism", but once you do that to death, what's next? In the "real world", the average person who has no interest in doing 3D themselves, doesn't CARE if you can make an image look like a photo. Sure, you might surprise someone by saying "this was done in 3D", but that's about it. Photorealism outside of holywood FX doesn't make much money for artists. Toons/comics/anime/stylistic renders can actually make artists a good living out there in the world. Outside of the 3D community. THAT is the exciting part about Poser's toon stuff.

Tools : 3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

I wouldn't even just call it toon anymore. It's more super reality, surrealism, characature and a few other things all rolled into one.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

The original Sara remains my favorite. Have v2 and the morph to make her look like v1 but haven't got her installed yet.

i love all the toons :D but i think girl is now my favorite,very closely followed by the koshini family :D

" I wouldn't even just call it toon anymore. It's more super reality, surrealism, characature and a few other things all rolled into one." Yep, you're right. Stylistic renders are how I like to phrase it personally. I'm finding a LOT of demand for it professionally speaking. Of course, photorealistic renders do have their place where money can be made as well... architecture visualization for instance (but that really has nothing to do with characters or Poser). Games are becoming more realistic visually, but most of the top sellers are still very stylized, and it's not photoreal yet, and of course hollywood special FX. But my point remains, the opportunities available for using these "toon" characters is really quite abundant and profitable for artists looking to make a living in 3d.

Tools : 3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

On the subject of games.. I really wonder if one of the gaming utilites might replace poser down the road for us all. UT2004 came not only with it's own editor, but a "crippled" version of Maya, which exported 100% to the game editor. PLUS, for $50, we got not only these, and the game, and a headset mic, but ALSO 80 HOURS worth of Maya and UTeditor training. And the UT rendering engine is FAST (instant) and has amazing effects. My "dream" utility now, would be something with posing and prop placement (like poser), integrated into the UT/Maya game developement system. My wife's actually going through the tutor videos 1 by one, and learning maya and making her own map!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

PLUS, for $50, we got not only these, and the game, and a headset mic, but ALSO 80 HOURS worth of Maya and UTeditor training.

You're kidding! Which version of UT was this?

UT2004 deluxe release pack, with the metal box, stickers, and chrome 3d car plaque! It came on DVD (they have a deluxe version available now, but without the junky stickers n such). Actually, we got them from EB online for $44 or so shipped, AND because we were prebuying, they ALSO sent us two online $10 coupons for their web store! I was hesitant in spending almost $90 for a game, but we play online all the time, and it was well worth the investment. BTW you cvannot export the maya stuff to anything but the but editor. I think there's a way to export things from there into "real world" wavefront files, but I'm not sure. You should see some of the new models people are creating. My lastest favorite is a mars attacks martian, complete with sound effects grabbed from the movie, custom hilarious movie oriented taunts, and a great taunt that plays that YoooooHooooo music, and he grabs is helmet, bends over in pain, his head shakes, and his head explodes! Ack Ack!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I wonder if it's still available? Might be worth it, just for the Maya lessons. Besides, I love shooter games. I never got UT because I thought it was for online play only, and I got broadband only recently.

You have to get UT2004! Tons of maps, GREAT eyecandy, and outstanding team based online play. My clan (finally joined them after years of playing with them) plays capture the flag, and Onslaught mainly. (team based goal oriented play) There are vehicles as well. I'd say since it was released a few months ago, we've played an average of at least 1/2 hour a day.. since we don't play every single day, you can see how much we play it. You'll want to get a headset/mic as well, communitcating via voice make coordinating team movement much easier! (Plus you can harass your freinds to no end!) We have a network here, and the wife plays it as much (if not MORE then I do now, and she doesn't really like just "shooters". I'm [DC]Gareee if you do get it. Just make sure you are getting the version on DVD with all the tutorials. You might even find it cheaper on ebay...

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

"I really wonder if one of the gaming utilites might replace poser down the road for us all."

I guess it's possible, but we're talking some time down the road (minimum 5 years from now), when gaming engines can truly handle the detailed realistic qualities many Poser users seem to demand in their renders. Plus, a gaming utility that's as advanced for developers as 3dsMax/Maya is would be even further off I'm sure, so by that time the standard programs will have advanced far beyond their current state anyway, offering much more to game developement and beyond.

There's no doubt that gaming is the dominant driving force behind the progression of 3D right now. That, and the seamless integration of 3D and real life for movie and television FX. Message edited on: 08/25/2004 09:39

Tools : 3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

I'd say since it was released a few months ago, we've played an average of at least 1/2 hour a day.. since we don't play every single day, you can see how much we play it.

Hmmm. That might be a good reason not get it. I'm already wasting enough time playing Doom 3! ;-)

Amazon.com has a DVD version, but I wonder if it's the same one. It's only $30. They don't seem to have the deluxe version. Maybe I'll venture out to the mall and see if EB has it.

Uh, have you looked at UT2004, or doom3 yet? It is just amazing how detailed and realistic some of the things are in them. The models in Doom3 are low poly by our standards, but some of the ut characters weigh in at 30,000 polys.. almost the same as lower res poser characters. And they use bones, karma physics, IK ect already as well. If I could get the Martian guy into Poser, I'd be a happy camper. (His textures need to be higher res, but other then that, he's great

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

The deluxe packs sold out right away. go to atari's official UT2004 forums, and ask around,, I'm sure someone will know who has the set with the tutorials. Plus, you can look at some of the pictures, and see what I'm talking about.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Attached Link: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=bf13df5ce0234d9b8321c88906fcfc5b&threadid=345

Take a look at one of the maps in this thread for ideas of how good these real time renders looks for environments

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Attached Link: http://eliheuer.com/gameart/teamskins640.jpg

Here's a toony character

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Attached Link: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=bf13df5ce0234d9b8321c88906fcfc5b&threadid=406

Here's a link for the mars attacks martian, with lots of pics Keep in mind, these guys don't have major morphing and facial expressions built in yet, but you actually create the poses and animation in maya and the ut editor. And some of the characters do have expressions built into the character.. it really depens on the creator. (much like poser characters)

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I have to vote GIRL. If I'm gonna use a toon in a render, I want a toon, not a Vic with toon head which is what Alexa reminds me of. The first time I saw Alexa, I saw just her head and fell in love. Then, I saw her bod and fell out of love. I've not really seen anything of Neftoon Gal but would love to know where to find her. I have Koshini but haven't had the chance to work with her. Kristta

Check out Polymage.com for Neftoon Gal.(And Neftoon Pal, her male counterpart). She also has a toony bod, and neftis is a master when it comes to eye mats, Hair, and expression morphs. She also did a dress for Girl that's KILLER.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

yeah neftis's gal is very good too... but it all depends if you wanna stand on freebie or commercial item. sara was free once, that was why i mentionned her. but neftoon gal is really nice. More into the comics/cartoon style, like GIRL and such. but well, regarding neftis's eye mapping, i did not tested neftoon gal, but I had started working on a version of my new eyes for "Elle" and i really had hard time, as a texturer, regarding the way the eye props were mapped :( but i am sure she will correct this whenever she can... Anyway i don't know if Neftoon gal carries at least one share of Elle's facial morph capabilities, but knowing neftis's goal to provide expressive characters, i bet she does !

I'm not sure how Elle's mapping is, but NG's is pretty standard. Her eyes just always look SO good.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

garee: do you have a sample texture (a free one) avalable somewhere and a seam guide for eye templates ?

I posted a freebie eye texture over at Polymage in the freebies ages ago. I just looked at what the base eye textures were, and worked based on that. They also have a more V3 like uv mapping option over at polymage as well.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

will give a look then, but i already am working on universal version now, and i don't think my work would really suit on comics/toon character such as neftoon gal or sara anyway

You'd be surprised.. good eye textures can look good on many different characters. Only problem is, there are so many eye textures out already that adapt easily.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

you stated the two main points: "good textures" you said... so i was right... and about the "too many", it dig the chasm even further. (how can a not good eye texture stand lost in this ocean of many ?)

Fishnose, you forgot TWO pre-GIRL, types based on the Vicky Mesh. Yuka/Mayu and Maeve. Yuka/Mayu had a anime-type head on a Vicky body and Maeve while not overly toonish, could go in that catagory.

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

Garee, do you play under UT2004 under the name Garee? I play a lot too (as SnowSultan) and am desperately looking for teammates for Onslaught with half a brain. ;) Spike and a few others here play too, check out the Gaming forum for a few threads we posted about playing together. As for this topic, I like Anime Doll and Koshini the most, but I'm very surprised as to how well GIRL poses. I agree with Fish that she needs more body morphs; but we've always got Capsces and Garee to help with that. :) SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Ohhhhhh... I'm still waiting for Capsces to release a morph pack for Koshini 2 that rivals the ones they did for K1. Maybe they have, and I missed it?

Tools : 3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

Well, Penelope came out for Krystal... And I'm flattered being mentioned in company with Capsces, Snow Sultan!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Girl - like Gareee I thought Alexa's abs were strange. I love NefToon Gal, just not enough supprot for her. LaRoo - that is one of the ugliest models I've seen and she has the mouth of a fish (the lips pull down instead of the jaw moving). Loved Koshini for the kids, but prefer Krystal in all honesty. And now Staci. The way I see it Staci, Krystal (all the k-family), Laroo, and Alexa are "cartoon" or comic. While Sara (both versions) and Girl are definitely more "caricature".

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

IMHO GIRL is the prettiest and most expressive toon, and even if she has a little bigger hands than most they are very feminine. She also poses very well. Close second,the under appreciated Neftoon Gal, again adorable face, with great expression morphs, needs more clothing support though. I think the toon-anime fad is here to stay for a good while, while the 3d adepts will ooh and aah at a well done photorealistic render of V3, the general public would rather see the real thing. And nothing peaks your interest more than an expressive toon character, or even an exotic one, a character that is charming and has very little in common with your everyday world, hence the success of Toy Story, Nemo etc... and the failure of Final Fantasy, with realistic looking 3d actors who nevertheless, because of their wooden expressions and acting, failed to grab the viewers. People want to escape their doldrum, hence the success of fantasy stories and toons.

Dominique Digital Cats Media

Well, Final Fantasy's story was REALLY lame, after their wonderful fantasy based games. Had they done a dramatic movie, with thier fantasy based characters, I'm sure they'd still be in business. Maybe they learned from that experience?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

The Girl no doubt about it and many said it The Girl was first all the others including Alexa are made to compete with Kim Gossens Girl not the other way around

Well my two cents, I do not have the girl and does not look like I will be able to buy her anytime soon. But from what I have seen she has a beautiful face, but her hands, arms, and feet look like they are a bit off from the rest of her.

I have Sarsa, Koshini, Koshini 2 and Kiki, Krystal, Staci, Alexa and La Roo.

Sarsa is so cute and I love her face but her body is a bit off for me, Koshini, Koshini2 and Kiki I just love so much no complaints here, Krystal and Staci I have not used much yet but both seem very beautiful to me, Alexa I love her face, most of her body is pretty good, yes her abs are a bit off, as well as her shoulders, but when clothed she is not too bad, and La Roo she is ok but I do not care for her face much and I do not really use her much at all.

Message edited on: 08/25/2004 21:12

In regards to Girls hands and feet - I should say that I have had great luck scaling them down by 90% and of couse Gareee has scaling poses in his Grrrl! package (sorry I haven't tried them yet but the morphs are fabulous)

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

i just wanted to mention that due to their look, it is EASIER to give some good expression to toon character's face, because you can exxagerate them and the like...

I personaly prefer Alexa over the Girl. They both have slight simularities, but Alexa's face and body is softer, more realistic while the Girl's is harsher...more doll like. Alexa also poses eaiser, without having to do any tweaking to the morph dials.

Wow interesting thread for sure. :) Howdy folks, Mark from 3DCommune here.

Lot's of fun points back and forth on this one. I don't persoanlly own the GIRL by Daz but she does look nice. Kim did a great job on her way back when she was first developed.

Alexa is our (3DCommune)'s first ever model besides our Bryce Woodies and we thought we did a pretty darn good job with her. Of course she's not perfect and for our first model ever we've very proud of her. She's done extrememly well since we've released her and she's still selling well as are all her clothing items and accessories. We still develop new things for her and we have a freebie of the week for her every week at 3DCommune.

If you notice Alexa comes with some killer items just as a base package for only 29.95! We felt that it was a first by adding so much in a base package for that price point.

Also we had many, many great artists and vendors that helped work on Alexa so it was really a group project by us. We had people like Nerd3D, Schlabber, Brycetech, Alexnest, FK Designs, TheRendering, CarolineG, ArtRO, Spanki and many, many others working on Alexa and her add-on's.

Daz has done a great job with GIRL's promotion and coming out with a nice set off add on's for her.

Here's a couple of Alexa images I've uploaded here in my gallery if you want to see a little more of her.

http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=BECamation

Really appreciate everyone's comments good or bad on this. :)

Just remember, no model is perfect for everyone and the more there is out there, the better for us all.

Mark

Message edited on: 08/28/2004 22:14

Attached Link: http://http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=747721

I like Alexa but the girl has become one of my favorate models to work with. She can be toonish but she can also be made to look realistic with a little dial twisting. I used the girl in the attatched link. The dead give away that its her is the upper lashes.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: ::: Girl vs. ALexa ::: POLL :::