can some one tell me a easy parenting formula for the horses to the charriot or vise versa so that i can have each horse run with different trotting styles but also keep them all connect to the charriot harnesses? IM USEING P5

Message edited on: 09/08/2004 20:42

In theory, you could make the chariot the parent, and each horse-figure a child of the yoke or tongue or whatever. But you really don't need that much complexity. If this view is typical, you really don't
need to parent all of them; just the nearest
one to the camera. The horses are so close
that the details of the other horses won't
be visible. A certain amount of
forward and backward slippage will look
natural anyway.

If the horses were spread farther apart,
so that the straps between them are visible,
you'd have more of a problem. You could
still parent only one horse to the chariot,
and use the "Point At" parameter to make
the in-between straps move properly.

Message edited on: 09/08/2004 21:29

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a i need a work around. In the pic i made here i seperated the charriot by autogroup smartprop. i need it to look good from these three cam angles. so i wonder if theres another way to do this by maybe parenting the horses to a smartprop of the charriot such ass 1. harness 2. leather or 3. the T bar ? I not to familer with the point at parameter option actually i dont think i ever used it. i know i should read the pdf but if you have a simple Definition i be very apprecitive of a short desciption In my animation the cam"s will br focused on the charriot and galdiator that way all my back ground and secondary mini scenes within my big scene will be low poly or multiple avi square"s not sure yet but i have all secondary animation scene done like to thank you ockham you been extreamly helpful for many of my questions And i think i can speak for the community and say we are fortunate to have you in this commuity thanks for the help

here the pic

I don't have a horse or a chariot, so I used dogs and plain props to demonstrate the Point-at. Harness 1 is parented to Dog 1 (chest) Harness 2 is parented to Dog 2 (chest) The tiebar (cylinder) has its base on Harness 1, and is parented to Harness 1. The goal (ball) is parented to Harness 2. On a real harness, this might be a buckle or something like that. It does need to be a small separate object, not the whole harness. Then, select the tie bar. Hit Object:Point At on the Poser menu. This will give you a hierarchy window. Pick the Goal (ball). After that, the far end of the tiebar will follow the Goal.

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When I move the two dogs in different rhythms, the tiebar stays in line.

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Sorry, nothing technical but a consideration: the morningstar is probably not a good choice here, since even with his arm extended, the gladiator can't span past the frontal maximum space occupied by the horses, so it would be impossible for him to actually hit a target (unless the horses run through it first). Just a thought, but it might add to the scene realism (btw the models are great).

CARRY PROP Animation :
pose a figure with arms bent and stretched outwards;
set the preferred states;:
pose a ball on the hands;
parent both hands to the ball;
move the ball and both arms follow .

You can adapt the CARRY PROP Animation to your needs .
Chariot Background Info at -
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/timelines/topics/chariot.htm

Steps :

1. Build the chariot cr2 from a phi -

---

1 carriage yzx
2 wheelAxle xzy
3 rWheel xzy
3 lWheel xzy
2 yoke xzy
3 pole xyz
3 chain1_1 xyz tail
4 chain1_2 xyz tail
5 chain1_3 xyz tail
6 chain1_4 xyz tail
3 chain2_1 xyz tail
4 chain2_2 xyz tail
5 chain2_3 xyz tail
6 chain2_4 xyz tail
.. and so on up to chain8

ikChain Chain1 chain1_1 chain1_2 chain1_3 chain1_4
ikChain Chain2 chain2_1 chain2_2 chain2_3 chain2_4
.. and so on up to Chain8

---

2. Adjust the JP centers of the chariot parts . Turn off bends for the carriage, axle, wheels and yoke .
3. Parent a prop harnesses to each horse . Parent a prop right swivel and left swivel to each of these harnesses .
4. Pose the chariot with the horses . Set the preferred state of the chariot - Go to Main Menu>Edit>Memorize Figure .
5. Parent the terminal ends of each chariot chain to a matching harness swivel .

Move each horse hip and the chariot chains follow as reverse ik chains .
Good Luck . :)

Message edited on: 09/09/2004 02:57

PS If you're really daring, you could first rig the harnesses as conforming clothing for the horses and then do the chariot chain parenting . ;)

wow folks thanks for the detailed help /tut Im gonna PM one of the admins to post this in the TUTorial section ockham your works great . Well explained .Great for beginer/intermediate jupiterkris yours im still working on but i found your to to have many application & purposes for many other idea & issues i have had i think your intel will help alot . also gonna check out your link you left. ADV /intermediate i think this would help alot of people cus both of you put it into lamen terms so that almost any one can understand it .Kudos to both of you thanks a bunch your render buddy Methastopholis PS . iwont make a recommendation if you would not like me to .

man i never made or used A phi how do you make one from scratch i only ever used P5 .if its easy can you post it if not ill hit up the P5 PDF

Q - "how do you make a phi from scratch"

Phi Preparation:

1. Create 2 folders in your Poser Subdirectory with the following paths -
   :Poser:Runtime:Geometries:chariot
   :Poser:Runtime:Character:test
   eg for win
   C:Program FilesPoserRuntimeGeometrieschariot
   C:Program FilesPoserRuntimeCharactertest
   eg for mac
   HD:Applications:Poser:Runtime:Geometries:chariot
   HD:Applications:Poser:Runtime:Character:test

2. Open the obj geometry file in a a text editor - like Notepad for Windows or BBEdit for Mac .
   Make sure the obj geometry has groups (groups are annotated as eg "g carriage") that match the numbered groups in the phi section above . No more, no less and that the case matches . Modify the obj or phi entry if you have to . Also, make sure that the geometry file ends with 2 empty lines - necessary because of a quirk of Poser .
   Copy the obj file into the chariot folder as chariot.obj .

3. Create a new file in the text editor . Copy the phi section into it .
   Insert the following text at the top of the section -
   objFile :Runtime:Geometries:chariot:chariot.obj
   This points the phi file to the obj geometry resource .
   Save it as test.phi in the test folder .

4. Open Poser, go to Main Menu>File>Convert HierFile.., and load the test.phi file . Say a prayer .
   If the files are in their place and the geometry matches the phi entry, you will be prompted for a name - enter "newChariot" and a new character(no picture) will be saved into your Figures/New Figures library .

5. This is important - Load the "newChariot" character from Figures/New Figures, and save it again as "chariot" in whichever subFolder you like . This completes the character with a picture and will serve as your base figure .

Continue as described above .

Phi Annotation:
The numbering in the phi section above is the hierarchy(parenting) order of the groups .
The "xyz" annotation is the rotation order - "xyz" means z axis as the twist axis, x axis as the main axis and y axis as the intermediate axis .
The "tail" suffixes makes the segment whiplike when you move it in Poser .
The last part with "ikChain Chain1" describes an ik chain of name "Chain1" composed of "chain1_1","chain1_2","chain1_3" and "chain1_4"; and so on for the rest .
These chains correspond to the arm and leg chains in the standard Poser figure .

Phew . That should cover it .
PS - All this has been covered before in old posts on the forum . :)

Message edited on: 09/09/2004 07:33

Sorry, I think I jumped the gun . I must admit Ockham's PointAt is way better, especially if the connection of the yoke to the harness is a single tie bar as it is - looks like a wooden piece from your picture . Here's a note about pointAt : If the tie bar doesn't point properly, you'd have to adjust the pointAt axis of the tie bar . Select the tie bar in Poser and go to Main Menu>Window>Join Editor . Look for the end point on the tie bar - it will be a red cross hair . Adjust it in relation to the green cross hair - which is the center point . The imaginary line from center to end point determines the pointAt axis of the tie bar .

'Point At' in Poser is pretty powerful fare. Ockham is certifiably brilliant with this kinda thing. It's surprising how many animation problems can be solved with basic 'point at' solutions.

Message edited on: 09/09/2004 21:47