Attached Link: http://www.poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32683

Thes poses work in Poser 4, ProPack and Poser 5, they prevent crosstalk between figures, and allow figures to operate the matching JCM on clothing conformed to them. They are an modification on what Kati d'Esprit (FyreSpiryt) discovered. I made the inital poses for the DAZ Girl, but if it works out other figures could be supported. Please read the thread first, then download the file. Bear in mind this hasn't been tested very much, yet. ;-)

Hi Jim, I just downloaded the files (three times) and I keep getting the folder is corrupt or invalid when trying to unzip? Could be just my computer....but I thought I would let you know.(:

Don't have the Girl, so I can't test it, but it sounds promising!

genny- try it again, I just downloaded it myself and it seems O.K., probably just an internet glitch.

Still doesn't work for me? I will try again later....sometimes my computer acts up.....could be one of those times.(: Thanks.

jim, Is it possible to use this solution to prevent 2 figures (neither of them conforming) cross-talking in P4? Or does it only work with figures which have JCMs? mac

mac- Oh yes, that is the effect of the line I added to FyreSpiryt code. While Poser 5 doesn't have that problem, the same poses when applied to the figure itself will point all the JCM links to itself, stopping crosstalk. The poses are unigue for each figure number, but I included ones for the first 3 figures, plus there are instructions on making more in the readme, it is just a simple search-and-replace operation. You are still ging to get Full-Body-Morph crosstalk, but that can be fixed by dialing the parts morphs instrad of the FBM dials.

Jim, this is a great discovery, I am writing to the Queen to propose you for a knighthood! I did some quick tests using your method in P4 to stop Xtalk in 3 Posettes SuperHero FBM. It worked great, I can stop Xtalk, or cause it between any figures at will by injecting the appropriate figure number and actor number. Not sure what you mean by "You are still ging to get Full-Body-Morph crosstalk" in post #7, as that's exactly what I was using your method for, to stop crosstalk in FBMs. Genny, the download worked for me.

Ha, it shouldn't actually stop FBM crosstalk. ;-) It only has the Girl's JCM channel in it, to do Full-Body-Morphs (FBMs) it would have to have one for each FBM, V3 (for example) has hundreds of them, plus clothing has other ones in addittion, so that is going to be hard to do. However, there may be something going on I don't understand, too...

Sorry Jim, I got my wires crossed a bit there, I was refering to your method, which can be used to stop FBM Xtalk, not the files in your download, which wern't designed to do that. I don't have the DAZ Girl, so I was testing your method on Posette, and the SuperHero FBM (see link above).

O.K., got you now, your talking about the method! The last bit that was needed came to me late, late last night, as I was trying to fall asleep, I was thinking about having CR2s that had the linking missing, to just be injected by FyreSpiryt's pose, and while that would work it would cause other problems, then I though, "wait, what if I just turned off what is already there"... ;-)

Jim - the download zip for the Girl jcm fix seems to be corrupt for me too. I tried downloading several times, but it won't open with any of several archiver programs in Windows.

I was able to recover all 15 files with ZipRepair, but there is something wrong with the download as posted....

http://www.recovermyfiles.com/

Freeware, BTW. Blang-dangit. It seems to be gone, now. Bad link, above. Sorry. Useful utility, formerly free, might still be out there somewhere. Worked for me in this instance.

Message edited on: 09/26/2004 02:04

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

Attached Link: http://www.zip-repair.com/

Zip repair worked for me too! Thanks for the tip. Found it BTW at this link

I replaced the Zip, sorry about that!

jim, Yes, I can see how this works with figures (I had no problems with the zip, BTW). But my problem is slightly different. For example, I have a patio door figure. It has 4 doors which can be opened simultaneously with one ERC dial. 2 of these figures will cross-talk in P4 when using the ERC and I'm looking for a way to stop this. Since the ERC is the master to the Yrot dials on all 4 doors, there's no targetGeom involved. Hmmmm.... just thinking out loud. If I add the 'deltaAddDelta 0' line to the slave channels of the 2nd figure, putting it before my 'deltaAddDelta 180.000000', it might just work. Off to try it. mac

jim and fyrespyrit, Absolutely f*&%ing brilliant!! Worked like a charm. Here's a pic of the 2 patio door figures with ERC - 1 partially open, the other fully opened. No more crosstalk! Yippeee!! mac PS I just mailed 'Lizzie' to second the motion for a knighthood! LOL.

Here's the code I used. Basically all I did was insert the 'deltaAddDelta 0' line before the ERC code and change all fig refs to #2. This system of yours should work with any type of figure or channel at all. Too cool! -------------------- { version { number 4.01 } actor doorL:2 { channels { rotateY yrot { deltaAddDelta 0 valueOpDeltaAdd Figure 2 doorL:2 vpdooropendx deltaAddDelta 180.000000 } } } actor doorCL:2 { channels { rotateY yrot { deltaAddDelta 0 valueOpDeltaAdd Figure 2 doorL:2 vpdooropendx deltaAddDelta -180.000000 } } } actor doorCR:2 { channels { rotateY yrot { deltaAddDelta 0 valueOpDeltaAdd Figure 2 doorL:2 vpdooropendx deltaAddDelta 180.000000 } } } actor doorR:2 { channels { rotateY yrot { deltaAddDelta 0 valueOpDeltaAdd Figure 2 doorL:2 vpdooropendx deltaAddDelta -180.000000 } } } } ----------------------------------- mac

OH, this is superb!!!! Yay!!! I knew folks would get this going again :)

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Yeah, just when you think all the poser hacks have been discovered..... So, who's gonna gently break the news to CL? mac

lol -- hmmm I think I can find a poor soul lying around here somewhere...... wanders off... :Hey! you! Yeah. I gots a job for you...:

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

Well! So if I understand correctly, Poser5 "fixed" the crosstalk issue by having each figure, as it was loaded, set all of its ERC channels to its own number? So it wasn't a real firewall, but just a cheap hack? That means that normally an ERC-conforming bra for V2, loaded in P5, would merely point at itself. But using this code you can inject "pointing at yourself, make it a setting of zero. Pointing at Vickie, make it a setting of one." This does sound, however, that each item with ERC receivers needs a custom pose -- in fact several, to point at different figure numbers as needed. A generic Girl pose, for instance, won't reset the recievers of my ERC-controlled tripod boom stand. Am I following correctly? BTW, congrats, salutes, three cheers and all that. This is possibly the best hack since ERC itself!

'each item with ERC receivers needs a custom pose' Exactly. If you have an ERC-controlled tripod, you'd probably want to make, say, 5 .pz2 files, covering Figures 1 - 5. That way, if you had a scene where the tripod was fig #5, you'd click on pose 5 and correct the crosstalk. The thing is, it's simple to do. You make one pose file, adding the deltaAddDelta 0 line before the 5 ERC lines for each actor affected, (see my post above), then all you do is make the others by search-replace-ing the references to figure 2, 3, etc. mac

This may be impossible but - couldn't one have a pz2 (or python script) that went and looked at the tripod and checked what fig # it was - and then set itself accordingly? So one could have just one pose or script for each item.

:] Fish

Message edited on: 09/26/2004 16:37

nomuse, yep, the poser 5 crosstalk fix does seem to be sort of a "quick and dirty" work-around, you would think they could have done better than that. DAZ Studio, from my (very) limited testing, seems to have fixed it properly, however. You will need a Pose for each figure, as maclean mentiond, I included the first 3 on the Zip as well as instructions on making ones for 4-up, which is actually a pretty simple operation. You also need to have all the applicable channles, either JCM or FBM, in it that you want to correct. I have run into a minor snag, though- some of my JCM uses a single JCM channel with two operating parts, Ingenue Vickie and Glamorous Vickie have "neck-turn" morphs (that work on the mastiod-sternos) that are operated by both the neck and the head, I can't find any code that will turn off both of them, Poser only turns off the second one, oddly enough. I'm still trying things, though. Fish- I've heard something to the effect that Python can't do this kind if thing, but I know nothing about Python. ;-)

Maybe someone could make a utility to do it? A new plugin for PDOExplorer?

OK! :))

Actually this would be a very good application of some new technology we've been working on. P4PyE (Poser 4 Python Emulation) allows our upcoming utilities to communicate in a basic way with Poser 4 so emulating Python for PP and P5.

Yes... much of this stuff can't be done with Python, so only program launch, import and export are handled by Python/P4PyE the rest being dealt with by the utility itself.

I'm proposing to write a utility which will work like this:

1: Poser is running
2: Launch Hogsoft Crosstalk (or whatever I call it!)
3: Browse in HC's lovely library browser to the file you wish to load, and specify the Figure number to control this figure
4: HC preconditions the file and loads it into Poser (all versions!)
5: It's done!

Believe it or not, I've already written much of the code I need for this to be seriously useable relatively soon...

Howard:)))

Oh... and if Poser "undoes" the preconditioning (untested) then it's not a problem... I just have the program work a different way by making Poser load the figure then an on-the-fly pose file afterwards.
H:))

Call the utility "Hogtalk." Maybe you could call the whole collection of utilities "Hog Farm?" Sorry. Sometimes I get like this. Whatever we do needs to be easy to use -- I suspect Poser's ability to muck up files every time it loads means you'd want to run the whole set of clean-up utilities every time you re-open a saved scene. A comprehensive scripting utility that allowed you to graphically set the relationships between the figures would be ideal (but boy howdy that would be a lot of programming).

Howard:

It's funny you mentioned an "on-the-fly" pose file, because I was thinking along the same lines via python. While python has limited capabilities to control/alter a character's JCMs, a script could certainly do something like this:

1. Let the user associate a char with a JCM/Crosstalk fixer pose file
2. Modify the Figure number line, and create a new, temporary pose file "on the fly"
3. Apply the temp pose file to the figure after it's loaded into the scene.

Anyways, food for thought, I guess. Look forward to your utility.

Hehe... how about Crosstalk and Hogsoft Hub...

OK... I'm getting close to a one-click-or-two solution:
Here's a screenshot of what I'm working on... "That was quick" I hear you cry!

H:))

p.s. This browser is showing PBooost library banks... if you don't have PBooost it'll look a little simpler. Oh... and this will be a free utility before anyone asks... Heck! I didn't invent it:)) You clever buggers JB and FS!

Message edited on: 09/28/2004 19:26

BM

Que? BM?

BM=bookmark So he'll get e-bots. He wants to keep track of this thread, that's all. The utility looks really good!

!!!Duh!!! Tooo much time in the countryside and tooo little trawling the forums... I'm a spazmo when it comes to wen lingo.. Ouch! I thought there may be someone initialled "BM" responsible for thinking this stuff up! H:))

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1837654

he he, sorry about that hogwarden. randy set it straight. Just bookmarking to keep up.

As Les may recall from an earlier post, setting the deltaAdddelta value to 0 is something I also came up with to turn ERC on and off for the Eyes in V3 (my Danger character) using a pose file. I had been experimenting, trying to find a way to turn ERC on and off, for the eyes, and hip channels on the skirts I make, and found that this worked. I also found it worked to turn the FBM channels off on my V3 figure to eliminate crosstalk problems. I even made a simple pose file to test this, but that was as far along as I got with the idea before time needed on other Poser projects and real world commitments got in the way.

Major kudos to JimB and FyreSpirit for there work on this.

Of course what would really make for glory is if the programmers at Curious could get Poser to respect figure names internally. I talked a little with someone from Curious and it looks very much like Poser was originally programmed to create an "instance" from the input file. So, essentially, all multi-character use of Poser, from actual characters to characters with conforming clothing, is hacked in by incrementing this "instancing." Now, if instead of setting all the actor numbers and ERC numbers on the fly each time a new figure was encountered (via library or off a saved pz3), Poser were to keep them intact.... Of course, one would have to be slightly clever with the ERC labels -- except that Poser is already able to insert the "appropriate" numbers if you merely leave those numbers off (that is to say, Poser finds an ERC donor and uses that figure number). That BTW is the real glory of this pose hack you guys have come up with. It acts AFTER Poser has finished loading, on the actual workspace the silly thing has created.

hogwarden, That looks great! And free! I'm impressed. I have a question. Will it also work in my case? That is, with ERC-controlled figures as opposed to conforming JCM figures? mac

Well... ERC and JCM are basically the samething... they use similar code in the chanels... valueOpDeltaAdd Figure 2 doorL:2 vpdooropendx deltaAddDelta -180.000000 The code I'm writing will include all of these parts in the conditioning pose... so I guess it'll work! And I'm getting there... it's nearly working for Poser 4! H:))

BTW, I was playing around this morning, trying to find a fix for the JCM with doubled up operating parts and I noticed something- Poser 4 wouldn't let me set a JCM operator to a number that wasn't actually in the scene. I was using :2 and there was only one figure, the pose wouldn't work untill I added a figure to take that number. Poser must do some error checking on the poses, something I never would have guessed. Anyway, if you can get it to work H, great! If you can't the long term fix would be to have single-operator JCM only, the poses seem to work O.K., other than that.

I suspect you've already tried this, but does putting two "deltaAddDelta 0" lines before the nitty-gritty code work against the double operators?

Yep, first thing I tried. ;-) It only turns off the second one, oddly enough.

Looks pretty cool. And I think Curious Labs would only be interested in it if enough people whinned about it :) I have heard that they pointedly didn't want to support a "Bug" as they termed it and that is why they got right of all crosstalk in P5, including the useful stuff.

Probably turns off the second one twice!

OK... I'm making progress! I'm working on the P4 aspect of the prog first:
I tried to get the JCM Control Poses to automatically apply to the figure as CT loads it into Poser but I can't get the poses to work this way. All I can do automatically is essentially merge the poses into Poser as pz3's and pose info doesn't seem to work well in a pz3 merge... so top plan B. Now I've fixed it so you select a figure in CT and can create as many JCM Control Poses for that figure as you like with a click, and also load the figure into Poser if you like... saves searching through the library tab! (This is Poser 4 I'm talking about. The miracles of P4PyE abound!). Then you apply the poses you'll find in the JCM Control poses folder under "pose" one at a time as per usual. This works nicely... even for FBM's. Been testing it with P4NW, P4NM, Lo Res Vic, Steph and the FBMs are crosstalking the way I want... except the double-whammies.
Of course, under Python, the whole process can become automatic... hit the script which opens CT where you choose the figure and the figure num... CT then loads the figure, then the on-the-fly JCM Control Pose through Python... no applying Poses required!

I'll have it ready for a download tomorrow... got some CD's of boring stuff to burn off for a client!

H:))

dis be da bookmarkythingy

bookmarking too :)

While there are a few poser 'boffins' watching this thread, I'm going to take a liberty and ask a partially related question that's bugged me for a long time. I've tried numerous times to use readscript to load several figures at once. The idea being that, instead of loading the figures and props for an entire scene from a pz3, I could make a low file-size readscript to do it. Well, it works, but the problem is that if you load 3 figs, they appear in the hier editor as one long BODY. Not 3, but one. Presumably poser can't differentiate between the 3 figures, so it just lumps then into one, which is no damn use at all. Has anyone ever succedded in doing this? Or can anyone tell me why it won't work? mac

Hmmm... no-one's answered so I'll give it a go!! Perhaps Poser is wired up to only expect one figure to be loaded in a cr2 so all the stuff in the readscripts gets put into the one figure. In fact I'm sure this is the case. You can load a single figure and as many poses/MATs as you lie with readscript in a cr2 but not multiple figures. How about making the readscript file a pz3? Then Poser will be expecting multiple characters! H:))

Attached Link: Crosstalk Forum

Hi folks...

I've got it working for Poser 4 and Pro Pack!
Feel free to fill your boots with the download and maybe post a response in the forum at hogsoft.com?

Howard:))

Thanks for trying, hogwarden. I gave it a go, but it didn't work. In fact, it loaded all 3 figures as one BODY, and as a sort of free bonus FUBAR, there were no lights and the doc window was wireframe. LOL. Mind you, if you can save figures as multiple groups, poser should be prepared for a cr2 with multiple figures. It's possibly something in the way I've coded it. Here it is. Maybe you can spot an error. { version { number 4.01 } readScript ":Runtime:libraries:character:0 room creator:01 main room.cr2" readScript ":Runtime:libraries:character:0 room creator:11 main door.cr2" readScript ":Runtime:libraries:character:0 room creator:21 window S.cr2" } Great news on the app. I'm headed over to check it out. Thanks a lot for all your great contributions to this community. mac

maclean, Go check hogsoft.com forum again, Howard thinks he has addressed your problem by generalising the solution to all dials. Also re your question on readscript loading mutliple figures, I suspect that readscript does not support figure numbers at all! It is such an old function, intended only for initial load of a single figure into an empty scene. Thus there would have been no reason to update it to be compatible with the multi-figure capabilities which were added in a later release. If this is true, then readscript would always load figures into the "Figure 1" slot, whether or not it's full/empty, because it's the only slot it knows off. (This behavior - being blind to figure numbers - is also the only rational explanation I could come up with as to why the V3/M3 injection issues could possibly work when the FII fix was applied: readscript was fooled into using old legacy code which didn't have the Figure # - and thus the Figure # bug - in it.)

Mac... Yes I've altered CT so it expects to find deltas in any dial (not just in a targetGeom dial) and reproduces them in the JCM Control Pose. It's now at 0.0.0.2! Re: pz3... You will need to put a light, camera and doc section into that pz3 as they are all reset when a pz3 starts to load... Kind of a pain as it'll bring the file size up again a bit... unless rather than using file>open to load it you use File>Import>Poser file instead... that's more like a merge and won't upset the lights! Could be worth a try. LayingBack is probably on the nail... until V3, readScript had only ever been used to load in the default figure at program start so CL had probably forgotten it was there! H:))

Thanks for the suggestions, folks. Firstly, I got the new CT and it works perfectly. So it's now ERC-compliant. Many thanks for that. I posted pic and info at howard's site. I tried various readscripts in a pz3, but nothing's working. I have a horrible feeling LayingBack is right. One thing I tried was inserting an actor line before each RS line. Thought that might work, but no. Ah well, you can't win 'em all. mac

wahay & bah H:))

Crosstalk looks great. What is the proper way to work here? Do we want to load a figure into Poser, then create the JCM Control Poses? When that's done, do we go into Poser, apply the JCM Control Pose, then save a new figure to the Library? Or do we apply the JCM Control Poses only when we're putting more than one figure in a scene? I've played with Crosstalk, and it works very fast. I'm impressed. Only problem is that I've likely already run out of figures to fix! Maybe I'll "do" Vicki and Stephanie twice, just because I can? Ooopps.

Yes crosstalk only has an effect when there is more than one figure in a scene and they share some FBM or JCM morphs. However, clothing items are also figures!

The workflow for Poser 4 (which is how CT works for P4 and PP at the moment) is something like this:

1:Find the figure you want to make the JCM Control Poses for in the CT Browser.
2:Set the number to the number of these figures you'll need in the scene and hit the "Create ... Now!" button.
3: Now load the character figures into the scene. You can do this with the "Load into Poser" button on CT 'cos it's easier than wading through the Poser library tab!
4: When as many character figures are loaded as you want, apply the new JCM Control Poses to each in turn. It works like this... Let's say I have 3 similar figure characters in the scene:
I want Figure 1 to be controlled from it's own FBM and JCM morphs so I apply "JCM Control Pose for Fig 1" to it,
I want Figure 2 to be controlled from it's own FBM and JCM morphs so I apply "JCM Control Pose for Fig 2" to it,
I want Figure 3 to be controlled from it's own FBM and JCM morphs so I apply "JCM Control Pose for Fig 3" to it.
Now each character is in control of it's own JCM and FBM's... no crosstalk!
5: Now I want each character to wear a clothing item (The same one for argument's sake)... so I find the clothing figure in CT and make the required number of JCM Control Poses for it.
6: now load the clothing items and conform them to the figures. Remember the order of creaton of the clothes... they should be Figures 4, 5 and 6.
7: Now apply the clothes JCM Control Poses like this:
Figure 4 is conformed to Figure 1 so I apply "JCM Control Pose for Fig 1" to it to make Figure 1 control it's JCM and FBM morphs.
Figure 5 is conformed to Figure 2 so I apply "JCM Control Pose for Fig 2" to it to make Figure 2 control it's JCM and FBM morphs.
Figure 6 is conformed to Figure 3 so I apply "JCM Control Pose for Fig 3" to it to make Figure 3 control it's JCM and FBM morphs.
Now the three figures control their clothes JCM and FBM... crosstalk where you want it!!

H:))

Message edited on: 10/05/2004 20:28

Message edited on: 10/05/2004 20:30

I'm starting to get it, but fall apart when it gets more complex. Do I always need to "treat" the clothes? Or do I only use Crosstalk on the clothes if they have some morphs attached to them? (For example, if I have morphing clothing.) Does Crosstalk "fit" clothes to a figure when the clothes don't have the figure's morphs?