Well time's up! BR>I was hoping that AS would get onboard and mediate but he's a very busy bloke. Instead I'm inviting you all to vote in this thread.

Just put DRACULAZ or BRYSTER and any comments you like in your post and we'll count them up in 3 days time.

For those of you who don't know what's been going on for the last 4 weeks or so, I challenged DRAC to do a version of a referance pic in WINGS3D and render it in Bryce, while I agreed to create the same scene in Bryce with no imports.
Drac produced his version in less than a week, while I've just finished mine.
Remember! it was only a FUN challenge!

Thanks to Brycetech and Frogdot for getting in on the act and giving us something to think about.
Thanks to all of you who got on board and gave both Drac and me so much amazing support.

LET THE VOTING BEGIN!

Message edited on: 09/29/2004 17:02

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

The Reference Pic

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

The Crystal Palace by Draculaz

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

The Crystal Palace by The Bryster

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

Both amazing efforts, but my vote is for- draculaz His seems more real.

Tough call. I like them both and the work is incredible. And to think you did that with primitives! Drac's picture I prefer as a picture, but my vote is going to - Bryster. I just feel your model is closer to the reference picture. Sorry Drac. Fantastic effort on your part and an incredible picture.

---------
Phillip Drawbridge
Website 
Facebook

I'm with Phil, Dracs render is better and also an amazing bit of modeling, yet the actual build is closer on Brysters model. V-Bryster Amazing effort by both!

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple

BRYSTER Both are excellent models, but I think I like Bryster's for getting closer to the ref pic...

Looking at both results (and the reference pic), I'm going to wait til next month (or the month after) before making a decision:-))

Slighty ridiculous suggestion: TheBryster and Draculaz get together on a composite image and produce something that'll blow our socks off!!

O O
.^.
_/

Cheers,
Diolma

Message edited on: 09/29/2004 18:08

Message edited on: 09/29/2004 18:09

Yes!

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Drac's picture has more feeling in it. and its technically amazing.
Brysters picture is beautiful and also technically amazing, I would like it even more if you took out the bright green tree in front.
My vote goes to Bryster also because it seems like he just added sooo much more to his. I can't even imagine what the render time would have been with all the glass.
I LOVE the lily pond!

Message edited on: 09/29/2004 18:38

Have to go with Bryster...solely on the grounds of being closer to the ref pic! Both are excellent models!

Both of you deserve ginormous cookies for the modelling shown here. Since the original challenge was to duplicate the picture's model of the crystal palace, with nothin besides the structure being strictly required, I base my vote on modelling evaluation only. The fact of wings vs. bryce has nothing to do with it either. When I consider it, both images have some upsides over the other in various places, which is tough to weight. It eventually came down to nearly-pointless little things that hardly matter like in the photo there appear to be seven cuts in a window, but drac put only six, and stuff like that. By a score of 5 - 3 on my checklist, Bryster wins my vote. Great job both of you. You've each done what I'll never be able to do in this century. **V** to Bryster.

Both are awesome and the technique blows the socks off. You really wanna have a vote? My gosh, hard decision, really ... but ok, the mine goes to Draculaz, because of the pov, the atmosphere and I think it has more depth.
And Diolma's suggestion is something to consider, the result of a teamwork must be mindblowing.

Message edited on: 09/29/2004 19:28

Well Big B, you pulled it off. Looks like I lost my five bucks. Thanks Drac. ;)

I agree with karineq: you should lose the lime-green foliage. Try a desaturate, add a bit of noise, say 5%, followed by a dash of gaussian blur, maybe .5 pixels, and you'd nail this one big time.

At any rate, kudos dudes. Oops. Vote- Bryster

Message edited on: 09/29/2004 19:51

Good thing theres a three day voting period, I'm going to need it. Both are brilliant.

Come visit us at RenderGods.

Ignore the shooty dog thing.

Vote for the Bryster. More accurate and I like the pond. (chop up that green tree). Love the mood & POV in Drac's pic.

i think they are equally good and should do another one :P

for some free stuff i made
and for almost daily fotos

like modeling a human without poser

for some free stuff i made
and for almost daily fotos

Going to have to go with TheBryster on this one. even though drac's took far less time. The resulting model was more accurate in Bryster's case.

Have to go with Bryster. He is closest to the reference pic. I agree about the tree. It just doesn't fit.

Absolutely Brilliant (bows with utmost respect to both). Vote - Bryster.

Mark S. Popham
http://www.markostimpy.com
markostimpy@gmail.com

The Bryster: 11 votes Draculaz: 2 votes For the numerically impared, I have counted the votes. I believe the tally is correct, though I may have got lost somewhere around Ang25. Maybe some of the poserites will come and vote, whether this is good or bad, I have yet to decide.

I'm taking into account the speed at which the scene was modeled (doesn't matter to most people, but as a modeler myself, it means a LOT), and the visual asthetics of the final image. I think they're both very well done, and while Bryster's may be more accurate to the original in terms of detail, the final piece isn't as visually pleasing as Drac's. (No offense). Vote - Draculaz.

---

Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

I do so like both of them, so I'm going to hold off for a couple of days and then see if I can choose just one.

" I'm taking into account the speed at which the scene was modeled (doesn't matter to most people, but as a modeler myself, it means a LOT), and the visual asthetics of the final image."

Maxxxmodelz, I agree in terms of speed and overall visualization, Drac wins. If both of them were working professionally as modelers and there was a deadline similar to the deadline of the contest, Drac would have more time to make any adjustments to the model as needed, or make any changes the director wanted to make well in advance of the deadline.

HOWEVER, that being said, this was a contest solely based on reproducing the original structure, not particularly about the final image itself (at least that's what I understood from previous posts). In that regard, Drac 'could' have, and probably should have, done more with his model being he had all the extra time left over. Errors like the one Moongoat illustrates above could have been corrected before the deadline.

So, even though I think they both did a fantastic job, I have to vote for accuracy.

Vote: Bryster.

Message edited on: 09/29/2004 21:37

I feel bad cause Dracs is such an amazing piece of work. It really is! I truly think you only lost because Bryster added more to his. /hugs

I love both of them, so I took some time to think about it: To be honest, I like draculaz's better in the sense of just an image because it looks more realistic, but I have to go with TheBryster because of the sheer work and accuracy of his. Sorry drac!

My vote to Bryster But drac did an awesome job. Congrats to both.

Attached Link: http://www.iath.virginia.edu/london/model/images/cpe.3.jpg

i just woke up. here's a few points. 1. THIS above is my latest render, not what Bryster posted. There's very few differences, but the differences that DO exist make it better. This piece has been in my gallery for all this time. That specific image is 400kb or so, I had to cut this down in quality, so I'd suggest people go see that. 2. In terms of the spokes or whatever, there's actually SIX of them, at least according to the site above. Take it up with the University of Virginia if you don't like it. 3. The purpose of the challenge, as I understood it, was to create a model of the Crystal Palace. I admit Bryster's slightly better than mine :) All that said, to do this by boolean modelling was crazy. I finished the modelling in 3 days of on and off work. It took me another day or so just to multi-replicate and create the scene in itself. I'm sure Bryster was busy and so on, but for his 303mb file, I have a 160mb one. As far as I'm concerned, given the fact that it was his challenge and his rules, I'm happy with the point I was trying to prove. Mihnea

i'd also like to point out that while I only had the wrml thingies from virginia u and two grainy reference pics (which i was more than happy to post here and share), bryster had detailed, close-up shots from the original blueprints. So it makes a bit of a difference in terms of exactness :) Drac

Hmmm. Yeah, that would definitely make a HUGE difference in terms of exactness.

Did Bryster really have detailed closeup shots to work from? Perhaps a new thread should be started for the voting if this is the case, because that knowledge would have influenced my final decision (had I known previously).

Message edited on: 09/29/2004 22:13

yeah he did. in most cases you send a message to the other guy asking, "so dude, you finished? when do you want to post the thread with the voting? hey, where's AS, he was supposed to moderate this?" and so on :) don't get me wrong, i'm not jaded or anything, I know his is the better model, I would have just liked to be announced of the voting :) Drac

Yeah, in all fairness, if this was to be a truly balanced challenge, then BOTH of you should have had access to the same references. Both working form the same pictures, etc. Ultimately, the point of this challenge was specifically to prove... what? I'm suddenly confused now. Hehehe. ;)

It is hard choosing btween the twixt.. as it was said in Alice in Wonderland. Like Ardiva holding off...me holding off for today.. let my eyes stop being bedazzled and my mind stop being mesmorised and I get down to normal so that I can see them clearer and then vote!

the point of the challenge was to prove which is better/faster/more accurate: boolean modelling or wings3D. a lot of that has to do with the modellers in question. as far as I'm concerned, I haven't done anything more to it after it got to 160-180mb because it was getting ridiculous on a dell laptop. he had more resources at his disposal and did a better job :) drac

curious question..we judge on the model, right? not on the impact of the image on the whole..

well we never figured out exactly what. but since the main point of hte challenge was all wings vs all bryce booleans... shrug safe bet it's the modelling :) drac

So what now? Re-vote in consideration of these developments? Seems just even considering that Drac wasn't informed of the voting's beginning.

nah, there's no point in that. i mean even knowing those things bryster still did the better job. i concede to him :)

I refuse to vote because anyone who'd try to model this in any way is nutz! kudo's to both...nice job indeedy! lol :P BT

and brycetech knows... because he's the bigger nutter of us three.. 600mb scene, was it? :D

732 now :P 21.5 hours to save...lol

erm... seek counselling? lol, j/k

hye brycetech..what are you doing with it?? Why so huge?And do we ever get to see it?

woah there... :D

" the point of the challenge was to prove which is better/faster/more accurate: boolean modelling or wings3D." LOL! Then this proves nothing, because there's nothing to prove. No one in their right mind is going to argue that BOOLEAN modeling is more accurate or efficient a technique than logical subD/poly modeling. That's a no-brainer. Booleans have their place, but efficiency and flexiblility is not one of them. Those are traits that make a technique or approach "better", "faster", and "more accurate". ;-) If someone can boolean model LOTR's "Gollum" and animate him as good as the original, THEN maybe I'd consider the boolean meathod. LOL. Seriously though, you both did a great job.

---

Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

I have a vote for Drac, and a vote for TheBryster.
There, they both get a big wet kiss from the heavy chested blonde!

"There, they both get a big wet kiss from the heavy chested blonde!" Any pics? LOL. Just kidding.

---

Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

Looking at the pics again, I have a few thoughts. Wow. Both of them are beyond what I can do at the moment (and for quite some time, probably). I like the atmosphere and mood in Dracs render better, but The Bryster had more in there. In terms of the modelling, there's not much to choose one over the other. They both work well. Other considerations: Drac took a lot less time to do his, which does count for a fair bit. The Bryster used native Bryce. I like bryce, and I do most of my modelling in it. Looking at Drac's freebies makes my jaw drop, and I have to admit I have no idea how to do any of that in Wings. THE VOTE- It's split. Drac and The Bryster have shown that Bryce and Wings can do basically the same thing, even if the timescale is wildly different. Mahray

Come visit us at RenderGods.

Ignore the shooty dog thing.

such different interpretations! makes it hard to chose which one's getting my vote...
I think my vote will go to drac, because the mood appeals to me more in his image.

Message edited on: 09/30/2004 02:39

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

"Drac and The Bryster have shown that Bryce and Wings can do basically the same thing, even if the timescale is wildly different." Hmmm. I wouldn't go that far actually, because the modeling capacity of Bryce is rather primitive compared to what Wings (or any decent spline/sub-d modeling tool) can help you accomplish. Sure, given a talented boolean modeler like Bryster obviously is, many things are possible, but still many aren't... at least not to the same degree of ease and detail and flexibility. Organic modeling of any kind can be sort of difficult and unintuitive in Bryce, given you only have booleans, primitives, and metaballs to work with. For example, how would one go about "boolean" modeling a realistic human head/body in Bryce that is flexible enough for animation and morph acceptance? This is an example of something that can be done very well in Wings using sub-D box-modeling techniques, but not realistically possible in Bryce. ;-) Speaking from a strictly architectural point of view, however, Bryce is capable of modeling just about any structure, as Bryster has demonstrated.

---

Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

I really don't want to vote on this, the end results are both so good, Bryster's is more accurate, but took longer and it sounds like he had better reference mat. In my view it's a draw! as to the original question wings or bryce? I say whatever suits the user! :) Now Kimpe, about that Heavy Chested Blonde bit........ ;)

----------

Toolset: Blender, GIMP, Indigo Render, LuxRender, TopMod, Knotplot, Ivy Gen, Plant Studio.

Both get my vote for some incredible modelling!

My gallery @ Renderosity

They both (all 3 if you count Brycetech--and it's hard not to count him) have proven one thing...they definitely have mad skills. One large cosmic vote for both (all 3) from somewhere over the rainbow. :^) John

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy

Strictly speaking, I would have to admit that Bryster's model is more accurate(but he had access to more accurate data)and he "went the extra mile" by adding interior details that Drac didn't. Drac on the other hand showed that if time is of the essense, Wings would have a much faster and more efficient work-flow. I love and use both apps. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Even though I was one of Drac's seconds on the "Field of Honor", I have to bow my head in Bryster's general direction and give him my vote. I hate to do this though 'cause his ego is already insufferably huge, and he keeps calling me a "Heretic".;-P

I still don't get this... of course Wings is the better modelling app., because it was developed as... well, a modelling app. Bryce was developed as a landscape generator... with some extras thrown in so that the beginner could actually put something in his/her scene other than terrains. We've all pushed those 'extras' to their limits and done things with Bryce that, I think, would astound the program's original developers. But it's not a 'modelling' app. Drac can import his model into any program he wishes... Bryster can not, but if Bryce is the only program he uses, is he worse off?... Not in the least. I can travel cross country on a bicycle or in a car. I'm definitely going to get there quicker in a car, but I bet I'd see a lot more interesting stuff on the way while on the bike. Which is better? Neither. It depends on your particular circumstances. If you don't have time for sight-seeing... take the car. If you're not in a hurry, and just doing it for fun, take the bike. But don't go around saying that your car is better than my bike, because it just ain't so. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.

and mad props to each of you for outstanding work with your chosen tool... :) ... but my vote goes to brycetech for sheer hard-headed determination in duplicating the original reference pic. Cop out, I know... :)

Message edited on: 09/30/2004 10:47

"I can travel cross country on a bicycle or in a car. I'm definitely going to get there quicker in a car, but I bet I'd see a lot more interesting stuff on the way while on the bike. Which is better? Neither." The car. Because you won't be picking up chicks on a bicycle. ;-)

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Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.

Thought about this all day, and I am going to say Bryster's is best, I think. Drac's is great but I think he could have done more with it. I think this is the reason Bryster's looks better, it is a more complete image. I am not sure if that reasoning makes sense, but what the heck!

The greatest part of wisdom is learning to develop  the ineffable genius of extracting the "neither here nor there" out of any situation...."

If it was for the closeness, I'd vote for bryctech. He's had pharaohs. Just kidding. :-P Anyway, I'm officially impressed by both of you and I'm not going to give a preference. I'd bet that looking at the wireframes hurts eyes.

-- erlik

Firstly, I would like to apologize if Drac thinks I jumped the gun by starting this thread a day early. As I understood him, the render I posted here on his behalf was his final and I was therefore not expecting him to suddenly produce an updated version. Drac knew that the last day of this was 30 September. I agree that perhaps I should have given him a heads-up, but then he could have mentioned that he had an up-dated version he wanted to use. However, I hope nobody thinks I was trying to gain an un-fair advantage, I wasn't. Reference Material: Yes, I had quite a lot of reference material on the the subject, but ALL of it was free and readily available on the net. In fact, there are only a very few sites out there to choose from. I was also helped by the fact that one or two of you guys posted ref pics to help this project along. If Drac did not see these then what can I say? I didn't get anything from other/non-internet sources. The Virginian material Drac mentions is sadly inaccurate. Some of this stems from the fact that the Crystal Palace was moved from its original site in Hyde Park, London, to Sydenham, Kent - as it was back then - in 1852/3, where it was greatly re-designed. The reference pic we agreed upon shows - I believe- the North Trancept and clearly shows that the arch window had 14 outer segments - count them! - and was supported by 9 window sections. Drac's pic shows 12 outer segments which is true of the other arches, but not the one we were using. The roof was made up of glass strips seperated by leading - something Drac missed altogether. The Victorians were also well aware of corrosion and painted their structures, which is why a lot of my structure was given a white texture. That said, this was a challenge between Wings3D and Bryce. Could Wings create on demand something as complex as the Crystal Palace. Obviously it can! And at speed, although I honestly feel that it has a problem with curvature as Drac's CP Roof shows. But Bryce is more than a match despite being hampered by slow render times and becoming unwieldy when faced with huge file sizes. Of course I used Booleans! But not as many as you might imagine. Multi-rep played a large part in my work too. As has been pointed out, many projects need to be completed in a hurry. But I'm with the Hare and the Tortoise analogy here. I'm a slow-coach who doesn't do this for a living. I spent a lot of time trying to get accuracy rather than asthetic quality. I beleive this paid off in the long run. I note that Drac has conceeded defeat (See post 40) I think he has been very gracious in this. I hope you all agree with me here. Thank you, Min! In accepting 'victory' I have to say that I hope everyone gets something out of this. It's been fun pushing Bryce to the limit and showing what can be done by a simple 'landscaper'. Drac's insistance that Wings3d is a great modeller is more than borne out by both his version of the Palace and the amazing work he has done both before and after this challenge. This to the point where I have d/loaded SILO, a prog not unlike Wings and have started to experiment! I will be uploading a special page on my website soon that will include Drac's, Brycetech's, Frogdot's and other versions of the Palace as well as other views of my version. I hope that's ok with those concerned. I would like once again to offer my thanks to everyone here for their support, their encouragement and their votes for both Draculaz and I. It's been a fun ride. Thanks also to Brycetech and Frogdot for getting on board too. And Drac, my young Padawan! One day you too will be a Jedi Master! Specs: 303mb file size. 17,345 objects. 12,869,099 polys. 13:40:07 rendertime. I've also posted a larger (wider) verison in the Bryce gallery. Regards The Bryster

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

I'm with kimpe on this.

I would like to give each 1/2 vote as I like both of them and they both did a fabulous job. Yes, drac (I wanna have your babies),finished first with a super image. Yes, bryster(the old man)took a longer time to finish, but came up with a super image as well.

Ok...so shoot me! smile

Message edited on: 09/30/2004 19:23

I'll have to go with Brycetech on this one. You're both nutz; g So I'll give each of you half a nut (and one to Brycetech as well for beeing equally as nutz. :) This is all totally fantastich! :)

Well, I see no more or less amazing skill in modeling from either entry. I can't decide which is better modeled and to pick a better render isn't the contest, so I respectfully decline. Try doing this with 2x4s and nails. Now there's skill!!

Vote - The Bryster But, come on. The modeling on both renders is irresponsibly, amazingly massive. Choosing between them is almost no decision, `cause how do you truly choose??? The choice on which one to vote for, or who gets the most votes in the end is inconsequential, the tasks performed by both are monumentous. AS

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Here, here Dave! I simply cannot compare one to the other. They are both exceptional examples of what can be done in the hands of a skilled artist with scads of creative vision. I was equally impressed with both BT's and frog's versions. I just hope no one blows over your toothpick version, Dave. ;)

Great work from all of you. I am in awe at both your artistry and patience.
I am doubly in awe that none of you went in insane. Or did you?

Arry :-D

I dare you, while there is still time, to have a magnificent obsession. --William Danforth

I think they are both wonderful models, and both people obviously have been obsessing over them for many days! But in this case, I just really like Drac's render more. It has a less cartoony, more realistic feel to it, and I think that if they were both applying for a contract or something that Drac's would come out on top, IN THIS CASE... (grins) Good work, both of you...