Guess who just showed up at Daz! The Mil big cat!!!! wheeee!!!

I saw that. Have you bought it yet? How did they do that male lion mane?

ick the morphs for it are not very good... i was excited about this release but now that i've seen the final product.... i have to say i'm very disappointed

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's not bad, but I kind of like Lyne's wildcats better.

I'll probably buy it anyway, though. Gotta use up those vouchers somehow.

Thank you for the compliment! I was VERY excited waiting for Robert's mil big cat... but now that I see it, it does not even seem like what I saw in the previews long time ago.. I really don't care for this figure at all. :(

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

Wow trashed in no time flat! I think you make wonderful cats, Lyne but don't give up on this so quickly. The following is a quickie with no post in Poser 5.

Message edited on: 10/14/2004 22:40

Did poser 5 make the hair? I have not bought P5 YET, but plan to! :)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

yes Poser 5 made the hair:) Iwas playing with hair and displacement maps in P5. I can't wait to see what you do...your so good already with plain old Poser 4!

The good news ... it takes vic3 textures and morphs... ( Sorry , I'll go away now.)

Question: Where is the Mane? I found beard dials, they don't do it and when I apply the male texture it is funky! This is under propack.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

I myself was verry surrprised and disappointed... at the faces, verry little detail and verry unrealistic and the paws are odd looking too, daz should have Noggin do all animal`s, Noggin does incredible work! the bodies look good and I bet they pose nice. Daz does nice rigging and they do good quality stuff like people and clothes. Lynn your work is also excellent I have at least a hand full of animals you did, my favorite is your egret and flamingo they are so real lookig : )

Hmm...nickedshield your render actually looks better than the Daz pictures of the cats they have on the site.

I've been going through the files and it appears that this package is incomplete. 19 mat files, no try 14. I didn't consider the P4 duplicates. Textures advertised 21, not hardly, try 14. transmaps 13, I haven't found 1, the same with the 2 bump maps. Maybe I should try redownloading and see what happens.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

nickedshield I was wondering the same thing myself, I wonder if they did post work to the male and didn't bother to say anything about it. So far I am not a very happy camper with the mill big cat. :O(

I just sent an e-mail to the sales department. Tomorrow is Friday, I may get an answer. Might just be another file that hadn't got posted, like the mil horse. FWIW: If you are looking for a pre-set cub, this cat dosen't have it. You need Lyne's Lion Pride.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

nickedshield this what I got in the texure folder
CheetahM.jpg
BlackJaguarM.jpg
JaguarM.jpg
LeopardM.jpg
LionM.jpg
LionessM.jpg
SabertoothM.jpg
PumaM.jpg
TigerM.jpg
WhiteTigerM.jpg
EyeGoldM.jpg
EyeBlueM.jpg
ShortHairB.jpg
LongHairB.jpg
I think you are right the forgot some files like 4 Mane Maps @ 512x512 each ElbowTuft @ 1024x672 2 TailTuft Maps @ 1024x672 each 2 TailTuft Maps @ 512x512 each 2 TailTuft Maps @ 1024x672 each 13 Transparency Maps 2 Bump Maps

Message edited on: 10/15/2004 01:16

Looks like you got what I did. Since I don't have everything I can't give an honset opinon on it. I like Lyne's and if she had a decent mesh to work with, would probably blow the mil lion away.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

Head has plenty of morph's. Don't understand why DAZ is having all their renders have that stupid eyes wide open look.

The background in this pic is from Lin White's Primal Dreams collection.

I can't draw a mane (or hair). I made the head wider in the temple area. Also made the feet smaller.

Message edited on: 10/15/2004 01:41

good point buddy36s.... about the eyes on the Daz promo renders. those renders they have up definately put me off as a customer... and like i said i was really looking forward to the big cat and i wanted to buy it. i could just be overly picky because i'm a big animal fan. ;) and maybe my view on the mil big cat will change once i see more good renders like in this thread.

This big cat looks too sweet, like I want to pet him/her instead of running away. I like the black panther version, he looks pretty good. The rest of them seem to have rather strange proportions. They don't look like the real thing to me and also don't look like cartoony ones either, they're somewhere in between. I've been debating to hold on to my vouchers or not to wait for this one, but I decided not to wait. In the end that wasn't a bad choice after all as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps when someone creates some really convincing images with it, I may change my mind about the mil cat. But for now I really don't like them. Actually none of the DAZ animals (except for the mil dragon) has ever really impressed me. A lot of the other stuff at DAZ really impresses me though.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I 'd go along with the majority view on it - the tiger and possibly panther morphs aren't too bad but both lions have moved on almost zilch from earlier attempts for lions the 10$ site max models are way better bar the pain of rigging and the free dedicateddigital tiger probably gives the tiger a run for its money ; )

Cliff said over at DAZ that the beta he saw had a mane. So either they forgot to include it, or they are planning to sell it separately.

And I agree, the DAZ renders don't seem to do the model justice. The few renders that have been posted so far look a lot better than DAZ's popups.

Here are few pics showing the cat in more dramatic camera angels. And some fierce expressions. Just thought I would share.

2

3

Why am I reminded of the Millenium Horse debacle?

Dramatic angles perhaps, but still no even close to the real thing.... These cats just don't look right at all, the do not fit into the normal quality and care DAZ puts into their products. Seems to me that they may have been rushed perhaps.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Because once again, problems were pointed out, and DAZ went ahead and released the model anyway? (That's what they are saying over in the DAZ forums, anyway.)

I have to say, I've been disappointed with DAZ's animal models lately. I adore the MilCat, but since then, the animals have been mediocre.

Maybe somebody at Daz should subscribe to National Geographic for more than the pictures of semi-clad native women.

Maybe somebody at Daz should subscribe to National
Geographic for more than the pictures of semi-clad
native women.

:) I'm looking through the "8 morphs" right now. So far, the only one that comes close to actually looking like the target cat is the Jaguar, and it shares with the others a neck so weird that it destroys any chance of using the head anywhere except in "See what I can do!" cartoons for the Gallery. I just flipped to the lion and realized that he looks just like the Nature Conservancy stuffed one I skipped when I bought my toy ferret. Great. Plush animals figures for your rendering needs.

My first reaction to the product was "Not a chance." That was prompted in part by being screwed over with the MilDog bundle, in part by listening to people agonize over the MilHorse (which I was lucky enough to resist), but mainly by the poor quality of the advert render. I know teenage hobbists who can draw better-looking lions freehand than the ones in the main ad. And it is not encouraging to see the folks who bought the mesh crying "Where's the mane?" My guess, it eloped with the dog's bushy tail and they are off to create a new planet.

DAZ has arrived at that point in a company's evolution when they believe that anything with their name on it will sell like hotcakes. And the market keeps reinforcing this arrogant perception by buying what is obviously poor quality and then bitching about it.

People who continue to hand their credit cards over to DAZ every time some new item appears in the newsletter are getting what they deserve. Sorry, but there you are.

M

so, when's the bigcat being released? it's good that Daz have released the Millenium Big Cat Plushie Doll for us all to play with, but I think we were all expecting the Cat right now..

Khai That was too fast to be anything but a coincidence! M

First I'm sure it's not easy to create one figure that morphs into several different breeds and there's probably going to be flaws in each breed that need to be worked out. We've got some great morph makers in the community and I'm sure they will make up for whatever the big cat lacks. However, I'm not happy that I see a mane in the promos and that there is no mane included. The ad copy says mane and tail tuft maps and I have none. I hope this is just a case of forgetting to upload some files...

It might not be arrogance, but desperation. They sunk a lot of money into Bryce. They need to get it back somehow.

you know, looking at this model... it really looks like they were using King of the Pride for reference... ;) lol Mickmca I was thinking the same thing ;)

We've got some great morph makers in the community... Sorry, but when I buy a product, I don't expect to have to fix it before I start using it. Thanks to the MS folks for teaching us that bit of consumerism. M

I'm pretty disappointed with the long-awaited big cat too. I sincerely hope the folks at DAZ are reading this thread and are QUICKLY planning a FREE service pack release for those of us who bought it in good faith-- one that provides (A) any/all missing pieces AND (B) some additional improved morphs. The faces really need some serious additional attention. This product promised a great deal and delivered mediocrity, which is very sad.

this is beyond repair by a quick service pack. they really need to start over....

I took a good look at the Mil Big Cat, the ad the pop-ups and all images posted in the various forums and immediately went out and bought ... Lyne's wild cats. Hers look like real cats which I, unfortunately, can not say of the Mil Big Cat. Like most other people with a modicum of experience with feline anatomy - I think this model just has too many flaws in basic anatomy. I think in some ways it has even more problems than the MilHorse. With the platinum club discount and vouchers I could get it basically for free, but I still can't get excited. Guess I'll wait a couple more days and see what develops.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

"With the platinum club discount and vouchers I could get it basically for free, but I still can't get excited" Especially if one takes in account that there's other great and much better looking stuff one can get at DAZ.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

in the end when I saw price after discounts (about 5) I did get it so heres my feedback

no there arent any transmaps yet

the texture maps are the usual good quality

I'll mostly be using the leopard/puma with maybe an occasional cheetah thrown in ; ) BUT very unlikely to use lion

I 'll be using the big feet morph in minus mode a lot

I think I m going to be looking for variations in cat eye textures to add some effects like smaller or bigger pupils
reflected glow in the dark etc

I wont be using the open mouth poses all that much

Thanks for posting this thread. I wish I'd seen it before I purchased the Big Cats. However, after seeing them in production (they didn't look too bad in the promos), I asked Daz for a refund (the first one I've asked for since buying from there). They were very nice about it and did give me a voucher for it (which I used to get Brom). Even though I don't yet own any of Lyne's cats, the production images I've seen in the gallery look far more realistic than these guys.

Well,did anyone ask why they waited so long to inform the general public about the $10.00 voucher and free membership in the PC Club til the end of OCT?Then just what...two days later I think the Big Cat is released and has been a disaster?I mean come on guys...this wouldn't pass Quality Inspection here or anywhere cept DAZ which believes it can patch up all of its mistakes after products are released. This thing has flat feet,looks more like it just came back from the taxidermist and different people are missing different things in their downloads with the most glaring being the lionsmane. What happened here is simple,DAZ could not have missed all these problems...under normal circumstances the product would be sent back to be worked on almost anywhere else,but DAZ knows its members are very forgiving and in fact for all their follys,one of their greatest selling points is how quickly they fix their mistakes. Well this time I don't think the sheep are buying it as the members over there seem both disappointed and outright angry...we're talking some of their most loyal buyers here kiddos,the ones who love DAZ to death. Compare the free DD Tiger to theirs and you see its better...compare Lynes Wildcats and her Lions/Tigers to theirs and you see a huge difference in the area of realism as she got it right~thus,proving Big Cats can be done realistically and without these kind of flaws.If I weren't up to my eye holes in debt I'd go get Lynes stuff just to prove my case to ya...but I think you know what I'm saying. But I'm not pointing my fingers at the creators here,mistakes get made all the time...but where was DAZ Quality Control (a hint...ever see that pic Dogs Playing Poker~thats DAZ Quality Control at its best).I am very disappointed to see such a bad product on the market and the pics posted by n0s4ra2 only prove they have potential...but even in those images you see the flat feet,the white of the eye and on some that were posted on DAZ,there seem to be some seam issues along the back of the leg. Its time for a recall and do these kittys justice by fixing the problems but most of all...they have to fix the face so that more than the nose wrinkles up as when a big cat snarls,by god their whole face seems to ripple in a terrorizing gaze that lets you know that you are on the menu tonight!So...don't buy these,go pick up Lynes if you must have big cats now cause i have yet to hear anyone complain and all the images I've seen done with them look extremely realistic.

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Can anyone give me a link to Lyne's cats, so I can have a look at them too? Thanks!

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Attached Link: http://www.vistainternetproducts.com/

You'll find her cats here

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

Thanks!

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Attached Link: http://www.vistainternetproducts.com/wildcats.htm

Here's a more direct link

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Wow.impressive. DAZ should really get these people doing their animals.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

aeikema, If you want a comparison look at my galley posting http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=nickedshield I think I used just about everything from the package. If you need more expression, the Mimic Lion morphs, free stuff, works fine.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.

Ok, is there a MilKitty LE version available for free somewhere? PPppppllleeeeeeeeeezzzeee??

Yeah...its on Kazaa roflimao.Want to know a trick...find some people who like the cats that don't do 3D art and have them buy them for you as a gift.Do them a few pieces to pay them back and note to Daz notice I said this as I got in trouble on a gift I recieved where the person buying it bought on another site using a different name...just note the above username...its c-e-d-a-r-w-o-l-f so if some stranger buys it and tells you its a gift,check with cedarwolf to see if it arrived:)

Message edited on: 10/15/2004 18:05

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Here is the same image I posted earlier. The lion now has it's mane. The tail tuff is one I quickly added and is not the one that comes in the new downloader.

PS:I do think these Big Cats have promise...but DAZ should never have released them unfinished and if they considered them good enough because they can be fixed later,thats the wrong way to do business and I would say to the supporters of Daz that they really need to look at this because its either a sign DAZ is sloppy with little Quality Control or they're greedy and think your're stupid...these can clearly be much better when you compare to Lynes cats and there's no reason they couldn't make them as real as Lynes. Well,then again maybe Lyne's just a super talent and no one but she can do it and do it right...whatcha think guys;P And Lyne...will keep praising you til you blush,just remember the name is A-r-m-o-r-b-e-a-s-t if you ever feel generous;P

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Well,then again maybe Lyne's just a super talent and no one but she can do it and do it right...whatcha think guys

Could be. I really like the MilCat, and the DAZ textures are nice. But I have to say, Lyne's free "Travis" texture looks even better than the ones DAZ sells. It's my favorite.

I wish I could make textures that look like my cats, but they won't stay still when I put them on the scanner...

It does look better like that buddy...but the mane loooks painted which was what I referred to when I said it looked rough.A lions mane should always look solid as it might on a lion statue or you should be able to make out the individual hairs...here they look clumped as if brush strokes were used. Not saying you painted...its just the way it looks.But does look a lot better than before.

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Don't totally blame the mane. I desaturated the color in the image of the lion and decreased the lion image's contrast to make the lion look like it belongs in this picture. Also added grain to the lion image to match the background picture. The mane untouched has more detail. The mane is still not perfect but it makes a good start. Hopefully, sometime in the future a high rez texture pack will be released for finer detail.

Message edited on: 10/15/2004 18:33

Well I hope so as well but I do have a question there because isn't it standard practice to release a high res with the main product and low res with a cheap intro item? I still have hopes this product can be fixed but I don't buy into this idea of fixing it after its release...that lets DAZ off too easy as they hoped to make a lot of money now and then fix it at their leisure and thats not right.The Big Cats have way too many flaws to consider that anyone would feel it was ready for release. I feel sorry for the buyers and the people who were working on this as I don't think anyone was being honest about what was going on here.Exactly who were the beta testers on this project?I would never have ok'ed this and if I were testing and DAZ ignored my conclusion...I would take it to the forums and make them pay attention. Lyne not only proves it can be done but I have seen images where her cats have that realistic snarl that all cats have...maybe it was postwork but it looked accurate to me~noticed in the DAZ forum this was more or less brushed off with the statement "its all I could find" regarding the nose wrinkle on Big Cats.I also noticed what looks like a seam line on the back of the cougars hind leg...have looked at many big cat images since this happened and I don't see such a line on real cougars hind leg...can you check that as I mentioned it in the forum just to query over there and was ignored.

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?

Armorbeast, DAZ seems to always release a base figure with base textures and then releases high res texture packs either right away or sometimes later. You may not like this practice but if you check their website you will see that this is true for all their main figures. If you buy V3, it's default texture and eyes looks like total crap. You buy (or make your own) higher res texture packs and you get a more realistic figure. You are definitely correct in saying that no texture maps that you buy from a professional merchant should have any visible seams in final render, like many of the DAZ Big Cat Renders I have seen. Quality Control should have made sure that this was never released this way.

Here's an image of the original Zygote Lion remapped with the New Lion Map that I got for free (Not sure if it was from 3d Menagerie, Lyne or Ken). Anyway.....the face on this Lion is far more realistic than the new Big Cat in my opinion. The DAZ Jaquar/Panther set is also better than this effort. I won't be buying this time.

This is the DAZ Jaquar/Panther set that was released last year I believe. It is also more realistic than the Big Cat, Queen of the Jungle Joke. P.S. I certainly agree with those who have praised Lyne's work. It is terrific!! In fact.....I just took a look at those "wild cats", and they are terrific! For $20 (which is what the DAZ Big Cat costs after all the discounts and sale), I am much better off ordering from Lyne.

Message edited on: 10/16/2004 01:01

"What happened here is simple,DAZ could not have missed all these problems...under normal circumstances the product would be sent back to be worked on almost anywhere else,but DAZ knows its members are very forgiving and in fact for all their follys,one of their greatest selling points is how quickly they fix their mistakes." The members aren't forgiving. The members are told to put up and shut up, as was the case with the milhorse, which is still crippled. The fixes were inadequate on the horse, what makes you think the cats will be any different? I just started to laugh when I saw those cats. I knew before ever going into the forum that there is going to be a thread at least 2 pages long with 'this is wrong' and 'Big Cat Anatomy doesn't / isn't able to...'. I was right. "Quality Control should have made sure that this was never released this way." That's precisely what we said about the horse.

Silke

Working with 3D animals is harder than humans because one, people usually have more familiarity with humans, and two, 3D animals may move differently than real animals due to the way they ended up deciding to rig them. You need to work with the model and learn it and the learning curve may be steeper for some than others. Having reference photos on hand will help tremendously. Test all the joints and see what they do and how they work with each other and affect each other. Have fun with them, but realize some work is involved to make them look realistic in the movements. These images have little to no postwork on the figures (the tongue was painted due to lighting on the tiger, and color correction was done to all to better integrate with the photographic backgrounds). Cris The Queen of the Savannah The Queen of the Rockies The Empress of the Jungle

Thanks for posting these images. Unfortunally they do confirm what I feared, these cats do not fit into photorealisting surroundings. While the proportions and poses sure look much more convincing now, it's the cats themself that just don't look real at all.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Well, also remember that I made a point to say there was little postwork on these particular figures. They were also created fairly quickly. If I postworked them, you wouldn't see the difference. Some can argue that you shouldn't have to, but realistically, the photo was taken under certain conditions that are hard to duplicate within a 3D program. If you were to use 3D terrains and flora, you'd stand a better chance. if you are going to try and put them in a photographic situation, then there is work to be done and you use the models as an underpainting. Cris

but i've seen non-postworked photo realistic pictures of v3. i've seen them of v2 and m2. i've even seen some of p4. none of your pictures, which are nice, even vaguely get close. lyne's wild cats do. her maps alone are worlds better. she's one person. this had a team. there's no excuse. and if postwork is the answer, well, then why don't i save my money and work with the free dd tiger or the old panther and lion? if 3rd party morphs are the answer, then my response is the same. i guess i'm just going to hope that cubed picks up the ball daz has dropped.

Certainly, that is each person's individual decision. The comment was that they don't fit into photographic situations and so that is what I addressed. Would I turn these in to a publication for printing as is? Not if they were for illustration work. I am not trying to compare these models to any other. That is what you do for yourself because it is your money that you are spending. If these models do not do it for you, at least it is good that there are others to choose from. All I can do is try to show these models to the best of my ability and in this case, was trying to show them in as raw a render state as possible for people to assess the model and not my illustration skills. Cris

The only postwork I do are some special effects (like lightning or so) and get rid of an occasional small rendering error (like skin going through clothes). I agree with cobaltdream, if the figures don't look right rendered, there just plain old wrong. Most of the DAZ figures I do have look just right rendered without any postwork, these cats just don't look right.

I've already seen a couple of postworked images with the cats and the cats still didn't look great. Let's face it, they just don't deserve the Millenium brand at all. And for sure they aren't worth the price at all, knowing that the free tiger I've got looks much better (with and without postwork).

So don't come on to me with postwoking excuses, these cats just don't cut it, they lack quality big time and no amount of post work will change that. They need to be good from the start. You're not going to buy a new car with a badly done paint job, do you? Sure you can redo the painting work on the car, but you want it to look great without any postwork! Imagine this car sales man stating the new car (that has a bad paint job) would be great if you'd redo it. Bad sales tactic....

DAZ can defend the cats all they want, but we all know there just not good looking at all. Just go over to your own forums at DAZ and you'll see how many customers aren't happy with it at all. As for comparing them to any others, since they've got the millenium brand on them we should compare them to the others with this brand and they just don't deserve it. DAZ should compare the stuff to others, to ensure we get the best quality we deserve, after all these cats aren't cheap. By calling them mil cats customers do expect a certain quality and the cats lack that quality.

Message edited on: 10/16/2004 04:03

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

"The comment was that they don't fit into photographic situations and so that is what I addressed." Well, they should since most of the other Mil stuff does and I'm expecting the same quality for the complete Mil collection. As a customer I'm trusting that anything that DAZ brands as Mil ensures a certain quality. Perhaps DAZ shouldn't have branded them Mil, then our expectations wouldn't have so high.....

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Let me rephrase that. The comment was that they don't fit into photographic situations....and I responded by saying what I would do to make it work for me. I forget how easily people read into things that are said in posts if I am not more specific...my apologies. Personally, I have never seen a non-postworked 3D piece that I would not want to do something to with painted postwork. That is simply my opinion, as is all that I say. I'm just trying to show that, to me, the cats, can look good. And as I said before, in my profession, that is only the first step. There is no piece I would ever turn in to a client without postwork. That's just the way I work. Postwork is not an excuse for me, it's my livelihood.

lyne's wild cats do. her maps alone are worlds better. she's one person. this had a team. there's no excuse.

I think part of the reason for that is that Lyne distributes her work only via CD. No downloads. That means her textures can be larger and/or higher res. I think she said her wildcats package just about filled up a CD. Can you imagine DAZ trying to sell something like that, via download?

i guess i'm just going to hope that cubed picks up the ball daz has dropped.

I do think there's an opening here for someone. I know I would pay for a really good horse model - one that looked real, and was embraced by the community, so there was lots of stuff for it. I don't think the MilHorse is it. There's not much stuff for it at all.

It seems to be a fairly common thread showing here..just about ALL the DAZ Mil Animals (by that I mean where they are trying to be multi-breeds) suffer from the same faults. No matter WHAT you do..a "one-size fits all" approach to different species/breeds just doesn't work. I feel folks would be much happier if they'd just produced a Mil LION, or Mil TIGER..not someting thats an aproximation of both. If they were GOOD meshes, with REALISTIC texures..Folks would buy..

Yes they would buy! I was thinking the samething, making the different cats separate meshes.

Cris_Palomino, youre posing and pictures are very nice and show what a talented person can do even with these kitties and I thank you for your posts of the pictures: )

The best view of these cats is the side view and I have noticed Daz did a good job with the muscle lines on the sides of the body.

The faces are a disaster! I think someone had said they looked like stuffed animals which is true. It makes me want to learn to model.

I am a member and very regular customer of Daz and aeilkema you are right about what we expect from the mil name.

When I first herd about the project I thought great! Hey I thought there are some pretty good big cats out there, so I thought to myself...and imagined better versions than ones I knew of and got excited! I mean if you make something that is already on the market your goal is to make a better more advanced one right?

Message edited on: 10/16/2004 10:07

They should have been listed as another set of Toon Animals and everyone would been satisfied. :) They have a lot to be desired if they are to be Mil Animals. :)

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I really want to let folks know that the only reason I could do my Wild Cat morphs and maps of that quality is that the DAZ Mil HOUSE CAT is the best model I have had the joy of using in a long time! I am not sure who made it, but the quailty of both the mesh AND THE MORPHS INCLUDED is outstanding, allowing me to DIAL most of the wild cats!! I only added a couple of additional morphs like ear tufts. I had to learn to map in "rug layout" for it, but the model was so beautiful, I was willing to put in the work! And no, the set does NOT "fill up a CD".... We only provide shipped CDs for many reasons besides the large size of most of our sets. Many of our sets are very large for other reasons besides our high quality maps - we have vue and bryce versions included, etc. I just want credit where credit is due- to the person who made the mil house cat. I am not sure if it was Anton or? I just wish the same person had done the other mil models. My true love of Poser models has always been MORPHS AND MAPS... models are HARD to do and very time consuming. So again, high praise for the creator of the mil cat model, that allowed me to have the pure joy of creating the Wild Cat textures. I did buy and TRY with the mil dog, and failed. I was so hopeful for the mil horse and this big cat, but...! And to be honest, between the group of us who did the morphs for the poser horse, and my own morphs and maps for the Poser Lion and the DAZ mil cat for my wild cats, they do the job. And thank you very kindly for the compliments and links you provided for me, here! Lyne Lyne's Creations Vista Internet Products

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

Michael Lane did the MilCat and it is a very fine model, yes. He'll be very happy to hear that, Lyne. Cris

I'm wondering if the reason the MilCat is such a fine model is because-- compared to the dog and the big cats-- it is limited to a fairly basic shape. I could be wrong, I don't know very much about models. I'm also one of those who would greatly prefer a Mil Tiger, a Mil Panther, a Mil Puma Jaguar combo. Instead we get a one size fits none Mil Big Cat.-- Lions are not much my thing anyway and now they all look like awkward clumsy lions. There was also a big mistake in what is important about Big Cats. The immense nobility of the Lion, tiger, panther HEAD is crucial. This was completely lost except in maybe the Puma. What makes the set sad, to me, is the feeling that it was released as something that was "good enough." Not the best, not great, not wonderful-- just sorta good enough to put out. I hope I'm wrong. But, to me, the set is shrieking "almost, kinda, sorta, this stuff is tough to do, you know." We waited for the cat cause that was hard to do and we were very pleased. We'd wait again. Maybe. Emily

I would also like to point out that this Big Cat figure has many head and body morphs. It would be interesting to see others who are truly talented with working with morphs try their hands to try to get what they believe are the best of the breed type (an idealized male lion, lioness, tiger, cougar,leopard, etc...). I agree that the promo pics by DAZ where absolutely ugly and aweful. Lion's head and eyes look so dumb. I would like to see what a talented effort by those of you that are so good at working with morphs can do. If the answer comes back that there truly is no way to make a reasonable type of Big Cat breed then I will definitely believe that they are beyond hope. Maybe, someone will come up with good morphs (maybe even a package), that will be a great thing for all of us.

I was expectant when the release of this figure was announced...I work a lot with African scenes, so this was a package I was sure to spend some hard earned cash on seriouslly, if it was good. Alas, my face fell when I saw the parody they had come out with... And if its so hard to make a combo lion/tiger/leopard etc. in one mesh, by all means make individual meshes. Simon Combs, a great painter would cringe at the sight of this figure. Seriously, Daz has a lot of good stuff out...this one is bellow expectations...