Probably a lot I don't know about it, but specifically, why the difference in intensity? The 2 pics show the same scene (a .pz3) rendered in P4/P5. Nothing touched. P5 options were - production/cast shadows. I also tried draft (really horrible) and raytracing. All lights are spotlights, and the settings in both apps are identical. Shadows are depth-mapped in P5. Now, I just spent 2 full days creating light sets, and I'm trying, really trying, to make all my stuff P5-compliant, but poser doesn't make my job any easier. It keep reserving suprises for me. The materials are all fine, I double-checked everything there. And yet, one room looks as though it came out of a speilberg movie. So, I'm baffled. Any thoughts? mac

Um, yes. That is, in response you your observation that they are more intense.. Although it's not "technically" true. What is much more "keyed" in P5 is the specular property. They "kicked it up a notch", so to speak, along with bump maps, as well. Sense poser assigns ambient properties to object surfaces, not lights (while most other programs assign ambient properties to lights, not surfaces), it tends to kick any lighting up a tad in intensity. This is why "realistic" lighting works generally better in P5. It's also a pain like no other for making lights -- what used to be a four hour task for me suddenly became a seven hour one. However, with practice and poking around,I've discovered I can be a bit quicker than before as I've come to understand the new uses for the ambient surfaces and the alt diffuse and specular surfaces (like, um, No Lights, for one, lol)

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

That explains a few things I've observed, myself. Thanks, ynsaen.

Message edited on: 11/01/2004 17:36

Attached Link: http://rendervisions.com/modules.php?name=Gallery&file=search&search_user=geoegress

I know why mac- I spent the last 2 months experimenting trying to work out a system. But, alas, it's image specific. It's the firefly engine. In you image it's the walls reflecting light. Your room consist of more then 2 models. The doors, frames, walls ect. Firefly and P4pro with only one single model in the scene create the EXACT same shadow pattern. But if you add any other model you get instead of sharp edges on the shadows, softer more realistic shadows. It's because of reflected lights. That is why it's so much brighter too. Heres a trick on fakeing a HDRI simular effect. Make a curved prop. Load it into P5. Set the node to white black black white like normal. Then set it to reflect. Move it back behind your camera (not between any light source). You can treat it as a brand new 'type' of light source. Soft defused light. It's really make a tremendous differance on the shadows (do a side by side to see). It is NOT a ray traceing event, it's the firefly render engine itself that is doing this. This is just another trick in our arsenol. Shape, color, distance and enviroment intensity all have effects on the final output. The brighter the lights, the more it reflects. I myself tend to use very bright lights so it's not a big deal for me. Geo

Thanks ynsaen, So it's not me. That's a small comfort. You say 'a tad'. I've just been messing around and find that values of 50% are making it look better. Although, that's probably misleading. The main problem here seems to be the floor. I tried another room I had set up and found the same thing - the glare from the floor is overwhelming. And, in the case of the 1st room, I have a small spot which will be used for a wall-light (which I haven't got around to building yet). When I switch this off and halve the values, things look normal (P4-normal) again. So, what ought I to do. Reduce specular values? I'll play around some more, but it looks like I'll be including P5 light sets too. A bummer, since there will already be a dozen P4 ones. mac

hi geocress, I just saw your post. That's good information. If what you say is true, (and I'm sure it is), then it's a big advantage. I mean, I WANT walls to reflect light. You know..... like they're supposed to. I'm fairly expert in poser 4's lighting, (and I used to be a photographer by trade, so I know a bit about light), and it's always driven me crazy that P4 doesn't allow walls to reflect light. The hoops I go through to get semi-decent lights in P4 are beyond belief. Ah well, now that I know there's hope, I'll tweak until I get it right. What's another 2 days on a 3 month project? mac

Just one last question. I'll probably be including some 'beam' props with this stuff - that is, cones set to partial transparency to simulate light beams. I tried an atmosphere tute for P5, hoping to get a similar result, but I got sweet FA. Does anyone know if these 'beams' will work OK in P5. Or a good tute for atmospherics? mac

The cones do work -- you'll b playing with your three transparency values, but the basic set fo P4 is a great start. In this case, as well, I'd say use them. Yeah, check the specular values and highlight size. Highlight size first, though -- a lot of stuff I've had come across in P4 has really high highlight values, and that plays havoc.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)

thanks ynsaen, I'll give it a try tomorrow. Just a thought. On all products in build, I use the same highlight values - 50% + medium gray - before I set the final values at the end. Shouldn't be too off the wall? I'll check it all anyway. mac

geoegress, that sounds like a neat trick. do you set your lites up "normally" or are you aiming the light and bouncing it off the curved prop?

Normally Pablo :) Takes patience, but you can get some pretty subtle non-black shadows like these across her face.

Oh- I forgot- it's also GREAT for outdoor scenes :) When your outside light reflects up from the ground. In poser the ground plain shadow properties are turned to not cast shadows. So..if you put a reflector UNDER the ground pointing up it looks more natural.

I'm going to HAVE to give that a try. Thanks for the quick reply geo! Patience? I use Poser don't I? (Seems like every image I do is a new 'experiment') :-)

Geo,

I noticed softer shadows in the P5 rendering of a cylinder primitive, by simply adding another cylinder and moving toward and just off camera. I didn't change any material nodes.

Can you please explain this:

"Set the node to white black black white like normal. Then set it to reflect."

or post a picture of your "reflector" material node? I'm also looking forward to trying this.

Jeff

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1609818

Apparently lights in P5 don't reflect off surfaces at all. Scroll to the bottom of the link. The shadows do soften though with more than one element. Seems more like a bug/feature than some elaborate lighting model.

Jeff

I think the reason for this effect are the shadowcams: When you add a Object, Poser adjusts automatically adjust the shadowcams to cover all objects. So after adding the second object the shadowmaps cover a bigger scene at the same resolution, resulting in softer shadows. To get the same effect without adding the second object, reduce the resolution of the shadowmaps.

OK. I nailed my problem down. And it came from a tip stewer posted in the linked thread (HUGE thanks for that link, jeff). Stewer said 'For the reflective surfaces, reduce the diffuse_value to something around 0.1' Well, I tried that and the walls were black. Then I tried a value of 0.500 and got the result in this pic. I need to tweak it, but I'm on the right track. Thanks to all who contributed. mac PS Yes, the shadowcams might easily account for that softness.