Ok I use Poser 5 and that's all I've ever used, I hardly ever do postwork because I prefer not to! Now I'm looking for a programme that will compliment Poser and it has to be reasonably priced, not the mega bucks pro type stuff. The way I see it; it is a choice of Vue 4 or Bryce 5, OK here's the question: In your valuable opinions which of these compliments Poser best or is there something else I don't know about? I really appreciate your views!

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Cofiwch Dryweryn.

I'm no pro, and there are plenty of others around here that could tell you, but I really like Vue 5. It imports full poser scenes and has many different and better lighting options. The price is pretty good too.

If you are doing animations, vue 5 and mover would be much better than bryce 5.

I'm not much into animations yet. I like to do still images so the animation side isn't that important at this time but I use things like Cyclorama and Environment from DAZ at the moment and it just isn't what I want.

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Vue is more compatible with Poser than Bryce. It's also very easy to use and produces nice images, even for newbies. If you're looking for a modelling program rather than a landscape program, consider Shade. Curious Labs is offering some great deals on it right now.

You could buy vue 5 and later if you want to do animations you could buy mover seperately (you don`t have to buy both at the same time).

what exactly are you wanting this complamentry program to do for you? render engine? modeling? scenery? all of that? personaly i like Shade, it has better lighting, i like the renders better and i can model, but it doesnt make scenery like bryce or vue. and shade imports stills and animation from poser

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At low cost - Vue 5. No question.

((Vue 4 Professional.....if you've got the bucks. With an upgrade path to Vue Infinite, coming soon.))

I never was much of a Bryce user. I have Bryce 4, never bought 5.

Vue's right-down-the-line Poser-friendly features were what sold me in the first place. Then, the Vue program itself confirmed to me that I had taken the right path....

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I'm very happy with Carrara Studio 3 (4 Pro being delivered tomorrow. Haven't tried it yet). But, I specifically like to model and texture my own stuff. I also really like the Carrara renderer. I paid $185 with a little coupon, I think, as an upgrade to C3. I think theres a sidegrade from Poser, too. Might be wrong there. At some point I do plan to throw Vue and Shade into the mix too though.

Message edited on: 12/16/2004 14:45

Thanks everyone, it's mainly for scenery, backgrounds etc. that I want it for. Sounds like Vue id the one to go for!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

OK, first replay to this has gone into the ether.... XSI have dropped the price of their highend package (which directly competes with Maya and 3ds) from about $2000 to $495. It comes with the Mental Ray renderer. Only downside is that it's quite a learning curve. You can download a 30 day trial (which I've been playing with).

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Vue5 D'espirit is good value and just so easy to use, it renders v v v slowly on the best settings though (and I have full hardware acceleration running), but if you've got the patience it's great :) Bryce would me better if you are using Daz studio as Daz are improving the integration between the two all the time.

I started with Bryce 5 and moved just recently to Vue 4. I think Bryce has a better rendering engine (but very time consuming), but Vue tends to look more realistic. People can always tell when images are rendered in Bryce for some reason... My only other reason to choose Vue is for its materials/texture setup. It's pretty realistic if you work at it and very easy to use. Bryce's Deep Texture Editor is hell...even incredibly experienced 3D artists have been reduced to tears trying to figure it out... There's my two cents...

Yeah that XSI is so tempting. Anyway I have Vue 4 plus Mover and it's really really great for Poser stuff in nature, but for indoor or closeup shots with like 1 or 2 trees, I prefer working directly in Poser 5. It's a great renderer when you delve into it (and learn to get around it's quirks.)

I'd have to vote for Vue. I had Bryce 5, but switched to Vue and never looked back. It is really convenient to be able to load in the Poser characters direct rather than through the method that Bryce makes you, even with Daz's software. It can render indoor and closeup well too, but you do have to work a bit harder at it than in Poser. I'll admit, I've sometimes rendered the subject in Poser and the background in Vue.

Definitely Vue. Vue 5 is the better choice, as it has Global Illumination, HDRI, & Radiosity lighting capability along with image based lighting. And E-on has changed its program planning to a modular model, so there are going to be 4 modules that will plug into Vue 5 to increase its ability. Mover 5 is one, with its ability to import dynamic cloth and hair...as well as giving you a network rendering capability. Botanica is next, which is the plant editor from VuePro, so you can do have that in Vue 5 DeepAccess is an enhancement to the world browser, letting you have a much better idea and control over exactly what's in the scene. LightTune adds further lighting functions from VuePro. I can't say 'yeah!' on VueInfinite, as I don't have it, but from the copy it is VuePro 4 with all the lighting enhancements of Vue 5, and 'other goodies' added. VuePro is the better for animating, so Infinite should be the best choice with the most options.

Cool. How much does Vue 5 with all those plugs cost for a first time buyer?

At the -moment-, the only plugin in release is Mover 5. The others are imminent, and part of the build up to VueInfinite: Mover 5 is $99 Botanica is $69 DeepAccess is $59 LightTune is $39 They will have a bundle for $399 with will be called Vue 5 Pro studio, which will be Vue 5 and all 4 plugins. And the upgrade price from there to Infinite is $199. Vue 5 by itself is listed as $249, so the better value would be to wait for the release of the Pro bundle.

I would recommend zBrush from Pixologic. Has a steep learning curve, but super-powerful.

If what you want is a speedy setup environment for your renderings then I would say some version of Vue 5. In many cases it's now just a matter of setting up the scene for HDRI light and hit render. Getting the kind of light you get so easy using HDRI would take hours to setup with ordinary lights. The Global Illumination and Radiosity also creates stunning results but be prepared for very long rendertimes (where you can expect the hair to take most of it). If money is a problem you could go for Vue 4. You wont have the fancy light options but it will cost you less. The somewhat slow rendering in Vue can also be compensated by the fact that you also get the Render Cow render node witch will make it possible to use up to 5 (as far as I can remember) computers to help in the process. It will of course not help if all you got is one computer.

Then there is XSI, it will give you loads of options on where to go in the future, as an example you could morph your models a la zBrush by painting on them etc.. You could decide to leave the ugly Poser joint and try to do better setups inside XSI insted, it wont be the application that stops you. Only things not included in the Foundation version that probably could have some effect on what you can do is that there is no hair and no hard body dynamic. However setting up environments for rendering will probably take you just as long as in any other none landskape renderer, and it be more as a free standing app than the close connection you can get between Poser and Vue and there is a price to pay in the learning curve. The license for Foundation support 2 processors, if that means 2 processors on one computer or if two different computers can be used I dont know.

Message edited on: 12/17/2004 01:02

And to comment on your specific question, Vue4 or Bryce5.
I have not done enough renders in Bryce in order to compare speed/quality but when using Bryce one has to spend a lot of brain power on trying to figure out how to do things and where to find this and that option. I suppose the designers had very fun having free hands to create an interface that had no likness to anything else or any standards.

It's however not fun at all to use.

Message edited on: 12/17/2004 01:10

And the material editor in Vue is a lot more easy to use.

Message edited on: 12/17/2004 01:12

Message edited on: 12/17/2004 01:13

If you want quality images, go Vue 4 Pro / Vue 5 Infinite (as opposed to Vue 5 Esprit) with Lightwave 7.5 . This combination of programs will offer you the greatest flexibility and the most power at the lowest (?) price point, and will allow you to make create the most stunnning images imaginable. I am a former Bryce user but Bryce does not allow you to load Poser animation sequences, a major drawback. Vue will allow you to load Poser animations using Mover and features Global Illumination, HDRI and Radiosity, features normally found in such high end programs as...... Lightwave 7.5, which will allow you to effortlessly load Poser animations as well (using LW 6.5 / Poser plug-in) in addition to modeling and character rigging, offering you unlimited flexibility, render quality and ease of use once you have configured them all properly. Finally, you can synchronize Vue 4 Pro / Lightwave 7.5 lights and cameras to compost images and sequences in Adobe Premier, for example. This is just my humble opinion, but it is an efficient environment and workflow for my most demanding projects.

If you don't want to get too fancy: I use Poser4 with Bryce5. Bryce 5 works very well with Poser. I have some sample images in my gallery as to how it looks when it's done. But if it's a graphics program you are lookin for Paintshop Pro maybe useful or Adobe's Photoshop. ;)

Message edited on: 12/17/2004 04:38

I also mostly use Vue 4 rather than Bryce 5 these days. But Bryce 5 is very pleasant to use once you understand the unconventional UI, whereas Vue drives me up the wall with its sluggish interface and poor design. True, Vue reads a pz3 and Bryce doesn't, but I end up having to do major retexturing in Vue anyway, because it doesn't read reflective or bumped materials properly. But Vue is FAST when it comes to rendering, and that's the crunch issue for me right now. It may all change when Bryce 5.5 comes out.

I'm putting up another vote for Carrara 4 Pro. My main reason being that, you get the import capability, it has a built in sky and terrain editor, plant editor, so you get much of the functionality of Vue. Plus you get a MUCH faster renderer. And if you want to model your own props, etc, then you can. TransPoser (the plugin that brings in animation) is included with CS4Pro. Its even being updated from what I hear, and will soon include hair dynamics. My vote is Carrara. Vue is nice, but limitied to its main functionality, landscapes. Brian

Carrara 4 Pro is a bit more expensive, though, isn't it?

For a combination of ease of use, low cost, and render speed....you can't beat Vue.

But, as in so many other areas of life -- ultimately, this issue involves a large element of personal taste. ((My own taste is Vue.))

And the amount of your funding.

If you've got the bucks, there's no reason why you can't buy them all.

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I just asked Eovia on the phone. They sold Carrara 3 as a sidegrade to Poser, but not Carrara 4. You can buy it as an upgrade from Carrara 2 or 3 for $189 as a download or $199 via UPS. Isn't Carrara 2 out there for free in a magazine? I don't remember for sure. Carrara 4 Pro comes with Amapi Designer 7 which is a serious modeling app. It also has it's own Carrara modeler, so it has two modeling packages, really. That made a big difference to me, but you may not care about that. XSI is interesting, but no Poser animation import. Personally, I didn't care for the demo. I can work faster in Carrara, but that's highly subjective. Not sure about workflow with Amapi 7 since I haven't tried it yet.

No, Carrara 1 came with a magazine, but I don't think 2 did.